Camby Named DPOY

[Testing]

According to article in Express News.

Bowen got jobbed

[Jimcs50]

You lead leage in blocked shots, you get DPOY.

Almost every year, that is the stat that wins it.

Fair? No, but that is the way it goes.

[planaria]

Link?

[CubanMustGo]

Found it.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA042507.06C.BKNspurs.notebook.32975b0.html


Camby's time to shine: Denver's Marcus Camby is expected to be named the Defensive Player of the Year on Friday.

The league typically times announcements so the winner can receive the award at home.

[Supergirl]

That's bullshit. Camby is a decent defender, but Duncan and Bowen deserved it more. Well, at least Bowen is used to being robbed of this award.

Why is it that the stupid idiots who vote can't process that being a good defender when you're on the wings and guarding guards and forwards is 10 times more difficult than being 7 feet tall and blocking shots in the paint? Idiots.

[Texas_Ranger]

I'm sorry for Duncan. Every year we've got the second best defender. First Bowen, now TD.

[mardigan]

What a crock of shit

[ducks]

bowen deserves it more then duncan

[The_Game]

bowen D has taken a real setback. He's not what he was.

[mardigan]

bowen D has taken a real setback. He's not what he was.
Not true at all

[Spurminator]

Perimeter players need a substantial amount of hype during the season in order to challenge for the DPOY. There really wasn't any DPOY hype at all this year, so it's no surprise that the voters looked at the stat sheet to make their selection.

But at least it wasn't Ben Wallace again.

[50 cent]

Big suprise. It doesn't look like Bowen will ever get one which is a travesty.

Dumb ass voters.

[Rapper]

Really??

Oh my...

I hate Camby

It doesn't matter...

Go spurs Go

[DarrinS]

It's hard to accumulate any stats on what Bruce does night in and night out.


Like a poster said early, a blocked shot is something you can tally.

[Marklar MM]

And yet, you would all love having Camby on your team next to Duncan. :)

[ducks]

I would not mind a cheap camby if healthy

[DarrinS]

And yet, you would all love having Camby on your team next to Duncan. :)


Well, duh.

[ashbeeigh]

Well. It won't matter much when we beat his team in a five game play-off series.

[thispego]

thats such bullshit
bowen got boned

[Bob Lanier]

Time for Timmy to make him his bitch, Hakeem-style.

[upTD]

bowen deserves it more then duncan
Camby Named DPOY.
and you say that bowen deserves it more then duncan.
shit. U R

[degenerate_gambler]

But at least it wasn't Ben Wallace again.


no shit, man.

[tlongII]

Let's see if Bowen can lock up AI tonight.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Let's see if Bowen can lock up AI tonight.
like it would matter....if he does he'll b hailed dirty...if he don't he'll be hailed old....if he complains....a whiner....... ho hummmmm... :drunk :drunk

[ploto]

If Bowen was a better rebounder, he would win the award. I am sorry but Tim's defense was not all that good for long stretches of this season. Also, it is no surprise given the way Camby ended the season.

[aaronstampler]

You people have to stop obsessing over awards. They're all meaningless popularity contests. If Derek Jeter can win a gold glove (2 in fact) then anything's possible.

[T Park]

Bowen got screwed, what a shocker.

What a shocker that ploto is here to bag on him.

Back to the Raptors board bitch.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm glad Bowen got ripped.

Know why?

Because now he'll feel like he's gotta prove who the DPotP is. (Defensive Player of the Playoffs.)

Pissed off Bowen + Pissed off Duncan = Probably Spurs victory. Me likey.

[J.T.]

The awards are meaningless. The only one anybody really cares about is MVP.

[Jimcs50]

You people have to stop obsessing over awards. They're all meaningless popularity contests. If Derek Jeter can win a gold glove (2 in fact) then anything's possible.


When your team is on the way out, awards are all we have.

:depressed

[cheguevara]

When your team is on the way out, awards are all we have.

:depressed

dude take some prozac or something. your sorry ass is depressing the whole forum

[J.T.]

The "Duncan getting hit in the face with ball" YouTube definitely has something to do with him not winning it, though.

[carina_gino20]

all about the stats...the usual lazy kind of voting from the media...

of course the opponent's ppg doesn't show up in the stats sheet. :rolleyes

[shelshor]

It's hard to accumulate any stats on what Bruce does night in and night out.


Like a poster said early, a blocked shot is something you can tally.
As Bill Russell always said: "When you have to go over and block a shot, it means the defense has already broken down"

[CubanMustGo]

dude take some prozac or something. your sorry ass is depressing the whole forum

:tu :clap :tu :clap :tu :clap :tu :clap :tu :clap :tu :clap :tu

[Jimcs50]

dude take some prozac or something. your sorry ass is depressing the whole forum


Just being realistic, Mr Rose Tinted Glasses......The handwriting has been on the wall for the last 11 months.

[T Park]

JIm,

Shut the fuck up.

[sprrs]

I (along with most people here, I'm sure) would definitely have the Spurs win title if it meant not getting DPoY, but it still BS that it hasn't gone to a player from one of the consistently best defensive teams over the past decade.

[cheguevara]

Just being realistic, Mr Rose Tinted Glasses......The handwriting has been on the wall for the last 11 months.

you are in no way being realistic.
1) our big 3 > any 3 player combination on the niggets
2) we are proven experienced champions, nuggets are not
3) we play 10x better defense than them

you are being pathetic is what it is...

[Duncanoypi]

Just being realistic, Mr Rose Tinted Glasses......The handwriting has been on the wall for the last 11 months.

Alright...jump off then.....

[Jimcs50]

you are in no way being realistic.
1) our big 3 > any 3 player combination on the niggets
2) we are proven experienced champions, nuggets are not
3) we play 10x better defense than them

you are being pathetic is what it is...

1. Mello, AI and Nene/Camby are better than our big 3

2. Miami is a proven champions with experience and they are losing to Chicago....all Champions finally lose

3. We shot 33%...Denver had more blocks, grabbeb more lose balls and D rebounds


Next argument.......

[Jimcs50]

Alright...jump off then.....

Jump off what????


The bandwagon broke down last May against Dallas.

[T Park]

then go post int he goddamn dallas board then since your so fucking obsessed with them trick.

[Cry Havoc]

When your team is on the way out, awards are all we have.

:depressed


I'm putting this in my signature, so that when/if we win the title this year (or hell even make the Finals) every post I make will remind people what you thought of the Spurs after the very. First. Playoff game. AFTER our best players had been sitting for a week + and had the worst combined performance of their lives.

[Jimcs50]

JIm,

Shut the fuck up.


:lol

[Jimcs50]

then go post int he goddamn dallas board then since your so fucking obsessed with them trick.


Dallas is going to lose too.

Is there a Warrior forum???

[Jimcs50]

I'm putting this in my signature, so that when/if we win the title this year (or hell even make the Finals) every post I make will remind people what you thought of the Spurs after the very. First. Playoff game. AFTER our best players had been sitting for a week + and had the worst combined performance of their lives.


I will be famous.


:elephant

[Cry Havoc]

Dallas is going to lose too.

Is there a Warrior forum???

Stop spamming. Small wonder you have almost 30,000 posts on this board.

[Supergirl]

As has been pointed out here before, the Spurs don't care about these awards much, and neither do I, except for this fact:

Bruce Bowen is one of the best defenders the NBA has ever seen, and the fact that the NBA has refused to publicly recognize that by giving him the DPOY award is perhaps one of the greatest oversights the NBA has ever made.

[Jimcs50]

Stop spamming. Small wonder you have almost 30,000 posts on this board.

I have 30K posts because I have been in the Spurs Forum for 10yrs...that is one yr longer than Kori.

Check out my posts per day....a lot less than TPark and Kori.

I never spam.

[ambchang]

What a shame, first Mitchell got coach of the year, then this crap.
THe media has always screwed up on DPoY, Alvin Roberston in 86? Wallace last year? Mutombo? As you can notice, these are all stats based.
Dumars didn't get the award until Jordan said he was the best defenders, the voters are nothing but a bunch of lemmings.

[lefty]

What a shame, first Mitchell got coach of the year, then this crap.
THe media has always screwed up on DPoY, Alvin Roberston in 86? Wallace last year? Mutombo? As you can notice, these are all stats based.
Dumars didn't get the award until Jordan said he was the best defenders, the voters are nothing but a bunch of lemmings.

Mitchell deserved the award . Period

[lefty]

NBA.COM and ESPN.COM haven't mentioned the DPOY award yet

[CubanMustGo]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nba/article/0,2777,DRMN_23922_5504002,00.html

[trbman]

You people have to stop obsessing over awards. They're all meaningless popularity contests. If Derek Jeter can win a gold glove (2 in fact) then anything's possible.


Isn't Timmy more popular than Camby? Or, does it have anything to do with averaging more rebounds, more steals and more blocks per game? The only reason Camby hasn't won in the past is games missed. He is the best defensive player in the league.

[ambchang]

Mitchell deserved the award . Period
How many Raptors game have you watched this year?

[Spurminator]

Very interesting to me that the best defensive player in the league will be guarding Francisco Elson and Fabricio Oberto tonight instead of Tim Duncan.

[trbman]

Very interesting to me that the best defensive player in the league will be guarding Francisco Elson and Fabricio Oberto tonight instead of Tim Duncan.

It's all about matchups. Timmy has problems with Nene, who is more expendible by the way, and that allows Marcus to float and double when necessary. Afterall, its not like he will actually have to guard Elson or Oberto. If this series comes down to my Nugs getting beat by those two, then things are much more hopeless than they appear.

The best defensive player doesn't always cover the best offensive weapon on the other team. Would Marcus cover Ben Gordon if we were playing the Bulls?

[lefty]

How many Raptors game have you watched this year?

I was going to ask you the same question

[Spurminator]

The best defensive player doesn't always cover the best offensive weapon on the other team. Would Marcus cover Ben Gordon if we were playing the Bulls?

That's a poor comparison. Ben Gordon is a guard.

Camby's a good help defender, no question. But Marcus Camby doesn't spend 30-35 minutes per game guarding the likes of Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, and even players out of his position like Chris Bosh.

[ambchang]

I was going to ask you the same question
Given that I live in Toronto, I am going to guess a lot more than you.

[T Park]

The best defensive player doesn't always cover the best offensive weapon on the other team


Bruce bowen is the best defensive player, and he ALWAYS covers the best offensive weapon.

So.

Wrongo Chicken Nugget fan.

[trbman]

Bruce bowen is the best defensive player, and he ALWAYS covers the best offensive weapon.

So.

Wrongo Chicken Nugget fan.


Is that really true? Does he ALWAYS cover the best offensive weapon, irreguardless of any circumstance? Every minute Brucey is on the court, he automatically will cover whatever offensive weapon he feels is the biggest threat?

Perhaps he is an anomoly, able to equally guard Yao Ming one night and spud web the next, but in every other NBA city, coaches spend hours watching film looking for the best matchup scenerio, that which gives their team overall advantages.

Allowing Marcus to more freely roam, create havoc, block shots, get rebounds, keep possesions alive, draw defenders out, etc. This is his game, and obviously it works. A good coach will recognize advantageous matchups, not nearly as black and white as you suggest.

[Budkin]

Bowen's best chance to win was last year. It ain't happening now. Hopefully this lights a fire under him and Timmy though.

[trbman]

That's a poor comparison. Ben Gordon is a guard.

Camby's a good help defender, no question. But Marcus Camby doesn't spend 30-35 minutes per game guarding the likes of Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, and even players out of his position like Chris Bosh.


No, its a perfect comparison. My point exactly, it would be stupid for Denver to have Camby guard Gordon, that would be a very poor matchup for us. Bruce is a teriffic defender, able to get in someones hip pocket and challenge shots, get on their nerves. Isn't that what defense is supposed to do? But, isn't rebounding, blocks and steals also a part of the defensive game? It's not like Camby doesn't expend any energy guarding his player AND guarding the paint against every other player as well. It would be hard to argue against either Bruce or Marcus, but I am very happy (if its true) to see Marcus finally get his due.

[DDS4]

Voting committee gets hard-ons for weak-side blocks.

[trbman]

Voting committee gets hard-ons for weak-side blocks.


Not sure about that. Are you able to back this up using the last 5 DPOY recipients along with links supporting it?

[Spurminator]

No, its a perfect comparison. My point exactly, it would be stupid for Denver to have Camby guard Gordon, that would be a very poor matchup for us.

But it wouldn't be a bad matchup for Camby to guard Duncan, would it? They basically play the same position.

[ambchang]

Not sure about that. Are you able to back this up using the last 5 DPOY recipients along with links supporting it?
You would have to go waaaaaay back to find a DPoY who doesn't have the necessary "defensive stats".
http://basketball-reference.com/awards/dpoy.html
As you can see, the last 5 DPoY were won by Ben Wallace 4 times, and Ron Artest once. Wallace was one of the best shot blockers, and Artest one of the best thiefs, and it took Carlisle's relentless pimping to get him that award.
The five years before that? 3 Mutombos and 2 Mournings, and the ones before that was Robinson, two Hakeems, Dikembe and Payton, again, all leading shotblockers (thief in Payton's case).
In fact, in 23 years, only Rodman, Cooper and Moncrief were the DPoY that doesn't rank amongst the league leaders in at least one defensive stats in the years they won the award.
I am not saying those DPoY who have the stats are not necessary good defenders, because I think Mourning, Robinson, Hakeem and the Glove were truly exceptional defenders, I can't say the same for Mutombo, last year's Wallace, or Camby.

[hitmanyr2k]

Blah...this takes me back to the 90's, specifically '94 and '95, where I had to watch my favorite player (Pippen) get robbed of DPOY in favor of a shot blocker. Not only did Pippen guard the best player night after night (anywhere from the PG to the PF) he also lead the league in steals and averaged a block a game. All that while still running the point dishing 5+ assists, scoring 20+ and grabbing 8-9 boards. And then seeing Payton get DPOY (while doing far less) in '96 made me ill.

[trbman]

But it wouldn't be a bad matchup for Camby to guard Duncan, would it? They basically play the same position.

No, it wouldn't be a bad matchup at all. But for the Nuggets probable game plan, it would be a better overall plan to completely free Marcus to patrol the paint, help on weakside and keep the glass clean while allowing a now healthy and stronger Nene to keep Timmy in check. Matchups, matchups, matchups. Marcus doesn't have to prove anything to anybody by guarding Tim Duncan, its not like he will be hiding anywhere tonight.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Bowen didnt deserve it this year... I thought it was between Duncan and Camby

[trbman]

........I am not saying those DPoY who have the stats are not necessary good defenders, because I think Mourning, Robinson, Hakeem and the Glove were truly exceptional defenders, I can't say the same for Mutombo, last year's Wallace, or Camby.

Those shot blockers were straight up, in your face post defenders. I seriously doubt there is any bias toward a weakside shot blocker for this award. For 60+ games this year, before Denver started playing any D at all, Camby guarded the paint alone, kept them in the hunt and has the ability to take over games. It's very difficult to quantify the difference a truley great shot blocker can make in a game, (mostly due to the fact that people will not challenge as much) but he changes everything. Throw in 12 boards, a couple of steals and a great outlet passing ability to kickstart fast breaks, and it is very difficult to argue against this pick. And it particular, its shameful to suggest that Camby is not an exceptional defensive player.

[dbreiden83080]

You people have to stop obsessing over awards. They're all meaningless popularity contests. If Derek Jeter can win a gold glove (2 in fact) then anything's possible.

He won 3 actually and he deserved them all.

[Oink Oink]

It looks like Bruce will never get it! :madrun :madrun

[sa_butta]

It looks like Bruce will never get it! :madrun :madrunIll take another title over DPOY any day.

[ShoogarBear]

If Marcus Camby was really the best defensive player in the league, he would be guarding Tim Duncan.

Q.E.D.

[NugzFan]

Bruce bowen is the best defensive player, and he ALWAYS covers the best offensive weapon.

So.

Wrongo Chicken Nugget fan.

damn you were so intent on that trying to prove him wrong and throw that witty little nugget joke at the end you didnt even answer the question correctly...hence you look bad.

you need to learn to read more carefully before you get your panties all wadded up.

[ducks]

Camby Named DPOY.
and you say that bowen deserves it more then duncan.
shit. U R
:rolleyes

[trbman]

If Marcus Camby was really the best defensive player in the league, he would be guarding Tim Duncan.

Q.E.D.

Thats just idiotic. So basically, the Nuggets are only conceding what everyone else already knows, that Camby is not an exceptional defensive player and can not guard Duncan effictively? The same Tim Duncan who looked pathetic against a guy who hasn't played in two years?

Perhaps the league should take back the award unless Karl changes his matchups, afterall, there is that policy about the best having to guard the best.....

[AnkleBreaker21]

then tim would make that dpoy look silly

[Catharsis]

Here's an interesting article. http://82games.com/dpoy.htm






#5. BRUCE BOWEN The NBA’s lock-down defender, Bruce Bowen complements Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili to form one of the most feared defensive trios in the league. While Bowen remains an offensive liability if his threes are not falling, the man creates nightmares for opposing teams and their ability to score. Bowen is tall enough, quick enough, and has sufficient reach to frustrate players from point guards to power forwards. His high Block Value demonstrates that, like Artest and Marion, Bowen is regularly assigned guard to the most dangerous offensive weapon on the floor. Despite a poor showing in the big three statistical categories, Bowen’s value is markedly increased by his ridiculously good Defensive Plus/Minus rating. However, this is all that separates Bowen from the competition, and since his Plus/Minus rating may be somewhat inflated from frequently sharing the floor with other defensive standouts, it is difficult to justify ranking Bowen any higher than fifth among our candidates. He is a distant eighth-place among our contenders in steals, blocks, and rebounds, and given the rate at which he accumulates steals and blocks, it should come as no surprise that his Foul Efficiency is poor. Bowen also has a middling OCR, showing that many of his steals come in his own territory, and he has trouble pushing the ball up the floor once he acquires it. He may remain the single-best off-the-ball defender in the league and a first team All-NBA Defense candidate, but his low statistical contributions exclude him from serious consideration for one of the top four spots in the voting.








TIM DUNCAN Some may argue that Duncan is not even the best defensive player on his own team, but his statistical contributions are immense. Duncan is among the league leaders in blocks and defensive rebounds, comfortably within the top ten of both categories. Last season Duncan had the benefit of another 7-footer in the middle in Nazr Mohammed, but he has carried the load admirably in Mohammed’s absence. His Plus/Minus rating among our candidates is second only to Bowen, and despite the possibility that this number is somewhat inflated, his defensive impact is undeniable. Teams learn the hard way that driving a Duncan-filled lane or trying to outrebound TD are weak bets at best. Duncan does have his weak points. His steal total is low considering that the Spurs’ defense regularly funnels players into the lane, and a low OCR highlights that most of his steals come under his own basket and rarely in transition. Also, Duncan’s Block Value shows that many of his stops come against weaker competition, or against late game bench players. Still, we cannot fault Duncan too much simply because his enormous defensive contributions come primarily from the low-post. Tim remains one of the best defenders in the league, the anchor for the league’s most highly touted defensive team, and an unquestionable First Team NBA All-Defensive player. Duncan should get serious consideration for the award, and his outstanding D this season qualifies him as our runner-up for the 2006-2007 Defensive Player of the Year award.








SHAWN MARION

Marion is a rarity among NBA players. In addition to his obvious offensive capabilities, Marion makes his presence felt in every imaginable defensive category. Marion has been in the top five in steals for most of the season, and because of his explosive speed it should come as no surprise that Marion’s OCR is among the highest. The fact that Marion is adept at playing the passing lanes is obvious, but Marion shines even more brightly in the big-man categories of blocks and rebounds. The fact that Marion has ranked in the top five in the league in defensive rebounding for most of the season is astounding. The 6’7 Marion starts at the small forward position, yet Marion grabbed more defensive boards per game than 53 of 60 starting centers and power forwards in the league, and did so playing next to an accomplished rebounder in 6’11 Amare Stoudemire. Analyzing Marion’s blocked shots shows similar production. While Marion is not in the same league as players like Camby or Okafor in raw shot-blocking ability, Marion’s 1.5 per-game average is more than half a block more than that of Gerald Wallace, the next best shot blocker of equivalent size. Like Artest and Bowen, Marion is given the toughest defensive assignments a great deal of the time, and sports a fantastic Block Value as a result. Yet Marion’s season block total is nearly triple of that of Artest or Bowen, and unlike Artest or Bowen, Marion maintains a very good Personal Foul Efficiency. Marion’s tougher-than-average defensive assignments put his stats into even greater perspective: while many of the big men on our list have the luxury of consistently playing near the basket on the defensive end, inflating their numbers in blocks and rebounds, Marion is often forced to defend very good perimeter players, making it that much more difficult to secure his position amongst the league-leaders in these categories. Marion, like all of our candidates, has his deficiencies. His Defensive Plus/Minus is less than impressive, and reduced minutes in the final six weeks of the season has caused a decline in his numbers across the board. Still, Marion’s impact in every statistical category and his ability to guard everyone on the floor from 1 to 5 make him our choice for the 2006-2007 Defensive Player of the Year.


CONCLUSION (ARE YOU SURPRISED?)

“Wait. So what you’re telling us is that the Defensive Player of the Year award this year should go to a gifted offensive player that is a 6’7 small forward? And worst of all, you want to give the award to a member of the no-defense Phoenix Suns?”


Since Marion has actually gotten some nods for the award of late, this may be a bit less surprising than at midseason, when we concluded that Marion was the clear choice for the award. Still, Marion’s D has many detractors, often fueled by one of the most popular misconceptions expressed by the general public (and by most TV and radio analysts): that the Suns are a horrible defensive team. Yes, looking at PPG allowed there are not many worse, but Defensive Efficiency is a far more accurate representation of team defense. Looking at points allowed per-possession, not only is Marion a fantastic defender, he is also a fantastic defender for a better than average defensive ballclub. While Marion is our choice for the award, a strong case could be made for any one of our finalists. The factor that caused us to choose Marion over the others is his overall versatility. Marion is the next-gen defender. Long, strong and athletic, Marion can keep up with the fastest point guards, and is disciplined enough to defend the best low-post scorers. His ability to play the passing lanes and pick up steals or deflections is even more valuable because of his ability to run the floor or make the outlet pass. Combine this with the fact that he holds his own against any big man in the league when it comes to blocks and defensive rebounds, and you can understand why Shawn Marion gets our nod for Defensive Player of the Year. Traditionally, Marion has been viewed as a player without a position, but smart coaches and GMs can tell you that this is not a bad thing, and with the NBA game opening up more each season, players with Marion’s defensive skill set will be more coveted than ever.

[trbman]

then tim would make that dpoy look silly


I think Tim Duncan, being as professional and good as he is, is probably more concerned about himself not looking silly, like he did the other night. If he can do that, than of course he can look good against anybody, even the Defensive play of the year Marcus Camby.

[Spurminator]

Here's an interesting article. http://82games.com/dpoy.htm



I was very disappointed in that article. It's unusual for an analysis from 82games.com to rely so heavily on stats like blocks and steals. Typically they have much more progressive metrics.

[DDS4]

Thats just idiotic. So basically, the Nuggets are only conceding what everyone else already knows, that Camby is not an exceptional defensive player and can not guard Duncan effictively? The same Tim Duncan who looked pathetic against a guy who hasn't played in two years?

Perhaps the league should take back the award unless Karl changes his matchups, afterall, there is that policy about the best having to guard the best.....


No bias here. Camby is a good defender. But I would personally take Duncan or Rasheed/Ben Wallace over Camby if I needed a one-on-one defender.

It's hard to quantify what Bruce Bowen does. There simply are no defensive stats for perimeter defenders. They simply don't get the quantifiable stat, blocks, like big men do.

Hence, my weak-side blocker statement.

[Spurminator]

Thats just idiotic. So basically, the Nuggets are only conceding what everyone else already knows, that Camby is not an exceptional defensive player and can not guard Duncan effictively? The same Tim Duncan who looked pathetic against a guy who hasn't played in two years?

Perhaps the league should take back the award unless Karl changes his matchups, afterall, there is that policy about the best having to guard the best.....


Nobody's saying it's better strategy for the Nuggets to put Camby on Duncan and let Nene patrol the paint... but essentially, Camby's role is a help defender. To me, this is like giving the Cy Young award to a closer. Only in rare cases should this be done, and only when there's no obvious man-on-man-defender for the award to go to.

Because all things equal, it's better to have an elite starter than an elite closer, and it's better to have someone who can man up and neutralize the opponent's best player than someone who's good at collecting blocks and rebounds while guarding the weaker of the two post players.

[koopa]

bowen did not deserve it, he has lost a step, and even adam morrison made him his bitch............

[Spurminator]

It's for the reasons I'm stating that many Spurs fans would have told you earlier this decade that David Robinson was the better defensive player of the two centers. Duncan collected the numbers, and therefore the All-Defensive Team selections, but Robinson did all of the work.

[trbman]

No bias here. Camby is a good defender. But I would personally take Duncan or Rasheed/Ben Wallace over Camby if I needed a one-on-one defender.

It's hard to quantify what Bruce Bowen does. There simply are no defensive stats for perimeter defenders. They simply don't get the quantifiable stat, blocks, like big men do.

Hence, my weak-side blocker statement.


We'll have to agree to disagree on Camby vs. Duncan defensively (of course not complete game). But I totally agree the league should find a way to recognize man-to-man defensive skills. Perhaps some sort of a point differential stat, where the player they guard scores less than / more than average, or maybe points per minute averages while being guarded. Permiter defenders may not get awards, but they are coveted and recognized just the same. I think my Nuggets may have one in Yakhouba Diawara. I would like to see him get some PT, been very impressed at what I've seen.

[ploto]

Nobody's saying it's better strategy for the Nuggets to put Camby on Duncan and let Nene patrol the paint... but essentially, Camby's role is a help defender. To me, this is like giving the Cy Young award to a closer. Only in rare cases should this be done, and only when there's no obvious man-on-man-defender for the award to go to.

Because all things equal, it's better to have an elite starter than an elite closer, and it's better to have someone who can man up and neutralize the opponent's best player than someone who's good at collecting blocks and rebounds while guarding the weaker of the two post players.
You do realize that for years Tim Duncan has not guarded the best big man on the opponent and has tallied his blocks coming from the weak side.

[lefty]

Blah...this takes me back to the 90's, specifically '94 and '95, where I had to watch my favorite player (Pippen) get robbed of DPOY in favor of a shot blocker. Not only did Pippen guard the best player night after night (anywhere from the PG to the PF) he also lead the league in steals and averaged a block a game. All that while still running the point dishing 5+ assists, scoring 20+ and grabbing 8-9 boards. And then seeing Payton get DPOY (while doing far less) in '96 made me ill.

Pippen is my favorite defensive specialist

[Spurminator]

You do realize that for years Tim Duncan has not guarded the best big man on the opponent and has tallied his blocks coming from the weak side.

Yes I realize this. I'm not arguing in favor of Duncan.

[ploto]

It's for the reasons I'm stating that many Spurs fans would have told you earlier this decade that David Robinson was the better defensive player of the two centers. Duncan collected the numbers, and therefore the All-Defensive Team selections, but Robinson did all of the work.
I will go one further-- 2 seasons ago Rasho played better defensively than Duncan did. Fire away!

[Carrot Top]

Should have been Zo. :ihit

[lefty]

Given that I live in Toronto, I am going to guess a lot more than you.

I live in Montreal, and I've watched lots of Raps games.

[mardigan]

I will go one further-- 2 seasons ago Rasho played better defensively than Duncan did. Fire away!
Get off Rashos nuts already. He is a good help defender and rebounder, but at no point did he ever play better d than Tim

[trbman]

....Because all things equal, it's better to have an elite starter than an elite closer, and it's better to have someone who can man up and neutralize the opponent's best player than someone who's good at collecting blocks and rebounds while guarding the weaker of the two post players.

Point taken, Camby is definitely allowed to 'roam' more. It's not every game, however, that he guards the lessor of two evils. Sure, we'll see it in this series, because it makes sense, but thats not always the case. He does possess man-to-man skills in the paint, low post, and even when guarding the oppenents 'best player', he is still able to help out. There is nothing new about collapsing defenses, every team plays it. Hell, I see Duncan do it all of the time. Obviously, he is not the prototypical center or power forward, but rebounds are rebounds (good positioning and awaremenss), steals are steals (good quickness), blocks are blocks (great timing and anticipation) and being the anchor of a fast breaking, defense optional team that relies on your presense day in and day out, that still takes plenty of skill, and whos to say that type of defense doesn't win more games.

[ShoogarBear]

I will go one further-- 2 seasons ago Rasho played better defensively than Duncan did. Fire away!Abosolute crap.

But expected.

[ShoogarBear]

You do realize that for years Tim Duncan has not guarded the best big man on the opponent and has tallied his blocks coming from the weak side.You do realize that the best defense in the NBA over the last four years was built completely around what Tim Duncan can do.

[T Park]

shocking, ploto with the Rasho cock in her mouth.

Get the fuck out of here already with that bullshit.

[exstatic]

Why don't they just fucking re-name the award "Shotblocker of the year"?

Fuck that asshole Camby for finally playing more than 70 games. Fuck the voters, too.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I know this HAS to be have mentioned at least 5 times in this thread but if Camby is the true DPOY wouldn't he be guarding Tim Duncan?

[ambchang]

Those shot blockers were straight up, in your face post defenders. I seriously doubt there is any bias toward a weakside shot blocker for this award. For 60+ games this year, before Denver started playing any D at all, Camby guarded the paint alone, kept them in the hunt and has the ability to take over games. It's very difficult to quantify the difference a truley great shot blocker can make in a game, (mostly due to the fact that people will not challenge as much) but he changes everything. Throw in 12 boards, a couple of steals and a great outlet passing ability to kickstart fast breaks, and it is very difficult to argue against this pick. And it particular, its shameful to suggest that Camby is not an exceptional defensive player.
I would say Camby is a very good defender, I wouldn't call him exceptional and put him in the class of Robinson and Hakeem. But when you look at the context of the game, Camby has never been on any great defensive teams outside of the late 90s Knicks. You can argue it's the system, but the fact remains that very few teams have capitalized on Camby's defense to build a great team, and there is a reason for that, because he is not the type of player that a team can build a defense around.
Duncan does that, Bowen does that, Wallace does that (a few years ago), Hakeem did that, Robinson did that, Rodman did that.
Would I want Camby on the Spurs, of course, I think he would help the Spurs defense a lot, but that is in place of Oberto and Elson Francisco. Can I substitute the defensive Camby for the defensive Duncan and get similar results, hell no.

[ambchang]

I live in Montreal, and I've watched lots of Raps games.
And you can't tell that Mitchell runs two offensive plays?
There is no defensive structure?
It took Bryan Colengelo to tell him how to run the team. The Raptors would be MUCH better off with a coach like Silas or Adelman.

[itzsoweezee]

hilarious, fragile little Mr. Glass won DPOY. just goes to show, the only award that means anything is the finals mvp. all the rest is bullshit.

[Phonzie20]

hilarious, fragile little Mr. Glass won DPOY. just goes to show, the only award that means anything is the finals mvp. all the rest is bullshit.

mvp is just as gay dude.

edit: i notice now you meant finals mvp .i can agree with this.

You're still a tool

[TDMVPDPOY]

seriously if duncan doesnt get at least 1 dpoy out his career is as bs as shaq only winnin 1 mvp for his career.....:(:(

[Phonzie20]

seriously if duncan doesnt get at least 1 dpoy out his career is as bs as shaq only winnin 1 mvp for his career.....:(:(

wahhhhhh

[siopaoboi]

i dont know what the problem is guys. personally (not being a homer), i think that camby deserves this as much as you guys think bowen or td does.

[Phonzie20]

i dont know what the problem is guys. personally (not being a homer), i think that camby deserves this as much as you guys think bowen or td does.

answer: homer

[lefty]

And you can't tell that Mitchell runs two offensive plays?
There is no defensive structure?
It took Bryan Colengelo to tell him how to run the team. The Raptors would be MUCH better off with a coach like Silas or Adelman.

He wanted to do that before, but Alston was such a bad decision maker at the time ; plus, they didn't look eye to eye

[TDMVPDPOY]

duncan is goin to destroy this fool in game 3

[Obstructed_View]

Camby is a great rebounder and weak side shot blocker. The fact that he got the award playing on a largely terrible defensive team that only started to come together at the end of the season due to having two fantastcally good offensive players just indicates to me that the voters are a) looking at stats rather than watching games and b) penalizing Bowen for being "dirty".

[TDMVPDPOY]

Camby is a great rebounder and weak side shot blocker. The fact that he got the award playing on a largely terrible defensive team that only started to come together at the end of the season due to having two fantastcally good offensive players just indicates to me that the voters are a) looking at stats rather than watching games and b) penalizing Bowen for being "dirty".

c> penalizing duncan>refs

[ambchang]

He wanted to do that before, but Alston was such a bad decision maker at the time ; plus, they didn't look eye to eye
Mike James is an even WORSE decision maker, so Mitchell gave him the ball in all the clutch situations. Talk about a bad coach.

[Rosie O'Donnell]

Good Camby deserved it. :clap :clap

[ALVAREZ6]

Tony Parker needs to learn that Camby does know how to block shots...in two games, Parker's had his shit stuffed by Camby at least 4 times.

[lefty]

Mike James is an even WORSE decision maker, so Mitchell gave him the ball in all the clutch situations. Talk about a bad coach.

He had no choice then

Plus, u have to credit him because Colangelo brought a lot of new players, and people didn't expect the team to be so good so fast

[1Parker1]

After yesterday's game, how can so called "voting experts" not see that Bowen clearly is long overdue for this award?

In a critical Game 2 of the playoffs 6'2 Bowen defended the TWO top scorers in the league...a Bigger, Stronger player in Carmelo Anthony and then later a Smaller, Quicker player in Iverson...and held both in check.

Meanwhile, Camby guarded the paint and 2nd string centers in Oberto/Elson for the first 3 quarters. During this time, Parker continuously got to the rim and foul line 8 times, Oberto had 8 points. In crunch time for only one quarter he's asked to defend the other team's best player...Tim Duncan, and really didn't do much to stop him.

Yes, he had rebounds and blocked shots so he clearly deserves the award.

[ShoogarBear]

We live in the age where "generate empty stats" = "win individual awards".

[ambchang]

He had no choice then

Plus, u have to credit him because Colangelo brought a lot of new players, and people didn't expect the team to be so good so fast
He had Calderon, he had Bosh at the end of the game, he can even give the ball to Arujao! Giving the ball to Mike James is the worst decision a coach could ever ever make.
And that is the whole point of my rant. The Raptors are not expected to do anything this year because of being underachievers last year, and it's because of Mitchell. Just because they have realized their potential doesn't mean that Mitchell did a good job.
Look at the games, the players are freelancing out their, it means that they aren't following what Mitchell is telling them to do.
I keep asking, tell me ONE set play outside of high screen and roll and Bosh isolation that Mitchell runs, there is none.

[lefty]

He had Calderon, he had Bosh at the end of the game, he can even give the ball to Arujao! Giving the ball to Mike James is the worst decision a coach could ever ever make.
And that is the whole point of my rant. The Raptors are not expected to do anything this year because of being underachievers last year, and it's because of Mitchell. Just because they have realized their potential doesn't mean that Mitchell did a good job.
Look at the games, the players are freelancing out their, it means that they aren't following what Mitchell is telling them to do.
I keep asking, tell me ONE set play outside of high screen and roll and Bosh isolation that Mitchell runs, there is none.

Ok, he made some mistakes, but the guy was learning

[lefty]

Official :

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2851168

Camby second Nugget to win top defensive award


Marcus Camby stayed healthy and in the Denver Nuggets' everyday lineup this season, and now he's been recognized as the NBA's top defensive player for 2006-07.



The Nuggets' center was named Friday as the NBA's Defensive Player of the Year. The Denver Post first reported Camby's selection on its Web site Friday morning.

Camby, an 11-year veteran, averaged a league-best 3.3 blocked shots, 1.2 steals and a double-double -- 11.6 rebounds and 11.2 points.

Camby breaks Ben Wallace's stranglehold on the award. Wallace, the Chicago Bulls' center, won the past two and four of the past five as a Detroit Pistons.

It wasn't Camby's best defensive season statistically, but the strength of those numbers overall put him alongside Dikembe Mutombo (1995) as the only Nugget to be named defensive player of the year.

"It would be the greatest award I've received, other than college player of the year [at the University of Massachusetts in 1996]," Camby told The Post in a telephone interview Thursday. "There are so many great people that won the award."

NBA commissioner David Stern is expected to give Camby the award prior to Game 3 Saturday night against San Antonio in Denver, The Post reports

[kolko]

http://www.nba.com/news/camby_defensiveplayer_070427.html

[TDMVPDPOY]

all i can say is, fuck this bs once again, fuck stats

tim duncan hope he brings his fuckn a-game tonite and fuckn destroy nuggets frontline...fuck this BS. in the future are they going to reward duncan one out of pity would be a slap in the face for all those years missin out is like music artist who devote 20yrs to music to not win jackshit and on grammy nite wins a life achievement award = FUCKN LAME.

[SkunkinDuncan]

I'm a little late, but this is well deserved. The guy above me may need some meds before he changes his nick.

[SkunkinDuncan]

Marcus Camby (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marcus_camby/index.html), Denver 70 23 12 431
Bruce Bowen (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/bruce_bowen/index.html), San Antonio 22 26 18 206
Tim Duncan (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/index.html), San Antonio 15 22 17 158



Jermaine O’Neal,Quinton Ross,Udonis Haslem get first picks? :wtf
(http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/index.html)

I hadn't seen the vote totals yet. That is a landslide.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

well deserved (even if some Spurs homers wont admit it).

Its funny coz if a spurs player wins something then its 'awesome' and 'about time' etc etc, but if it isnt a spurs player, then its 'what a joke' or 'bullcrap' etc. :smokin

[Spurminator]

No I agree, he's doing a fantastic job on Oberto and Elson.

[exstatic]

well deserved (even if some Spurs homers wont admit it).

Its funny coz if a spurs player wins something then its 'awesome' and 'about time' etc etc, but if it isnt a spurs player, then its 'what a joke' or 'bullcrap' etc. :smokin
The last time a Spurs player won an individual yearly award was like 3 or 4 years ago. Nice try, though. You almost built that strawman.