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AlamoSpursFan
11-22-2004, 12:20 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/10242339.htm?1c

Posted on Mon, Nov. 22, 2004



Black players in particular should heed Stern warning

JASON WHITLOCK


NBA commissioner David Stern sent a message to his players Sunday.

By issuing three of the harshest penalties in league history — a 73-game suspension of Ron Artest, 30 games for Stephen Jackson and 25 games for Jermaine O'Neal — Stern let his players know that the league will aggressively try to clean up its image problem.

For their role in Friday's ugly brawl at Detroit, the Pacers, favorites to represent the East in the NBA finals, received the death penalty. Indiana's season is over. O'Neal, Artest, both All-Stars, and Jackson are Indiana's three best players.

Stern had no choice. TV ratings for the league have been steadily falling since Michael Jordan's heyday. The league's image has been in decline since Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and Jordan ruled.

Allen Iverson, Latrell Sprewell, Kobe Bryant, Dream Team failures, an embrace of all the negative aspects of the hip-hop culture and a horrid style of play have conspired to make the NBA easy to ignore. By decimating the Pacers and publicly acknowledging that there has been a lowering of expectations in terms of player (and fan) behavior, Stern made it clear he's not in denial about the NBA's troubles.

I am, however, concerned that the league's players will remain in denial. Surrounded by groupies and yes-men, fortified by multimillion-dollar contracts and endorsement deals, it will be easy for NBA players to misinterpret Stern's warning.

In this column, I am calling on my peers in the media to level with NBA players (and all professional athletes) and tell them what's really going on.

American sports fans, particularly those who consistently shell out the hundreds of dollars it takes to attend a professional game, are fed up with black professional basketball players in particular and black professional athletes to a lesser degree.

Yeah, let's cut through all the garbage and get to the real issue. The people paying the bills don't like the product, don't like the attitude, don't like the showboating and don't like the flamboyance. The NBA, which relies heavily on African-American players, is at the forefront of fan backlash. Stern realizes this, and that's why, spurred on by the Detroit brawl, he is reacting decisively.

What the players must come to grips with is that just because race is an element in the backlash, that doesn't mean the backlash is fueled by racism.

We're witnessing a clash of cultures. A predominately white fan base is rejecting a predominately black style of play and sportsmanship.

Who is on the right side of this argument? The group that is always right in a capitalistic society. The customer. That's why Stern, endorsed by his owners, came down hard on the players. He stated that the NBA would take steps to ensure that its fans improved their behavior. But Stern knows the real solutions are in the hands of his players. A good businessman caters to his audience. They don't play country music at my dad's inner-city bar for a reason.

Stern's players must bow to the desires of their fan base.

In general, African-American athletes have always been — for lack of a better description — more expressive and flamboyant on the field of play. Go back to the Negro Leagues — showboating was part of the entertainment package. The Negro Leagues catered to a predominately black fan base.

We, black people, begged for integration. We demanded the right to play in the major leagues, the NBA, the NFL, the NHL. These leagues accommodate a white audience. As long as the customer base is white, the standard for appropriate sportsmanship, style of play and appearance should be set by white people.

This is fair, particularly when the athletes/employees earn millions of dollars and have the freedom to do whatever — and I mean whatever — they want when they're not playing or practicing.

If African-American players are unwilling to accept this reality, NBA owners will speed up the internationalization of their team's rosters. Many African-American players with NBA-quality skill will soon find themselves circling the country playing basketball with Hot Sauce and the And 1 Tour while Yao Nowitzki collects a $10 million NBA check.

The black players will have no one to blame but themselves.

Johnny_Blaze_47
11-22-2004, 12:22 PM
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~jr47581/pictures/race_card.gif

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 12:26 PM
Honestly, I think there is indeed a racial component to the general public reaction to this incident. People do tend for better or worse to identify with those who, well, look like them. I wish it wasn't the case, but it is.

Ignoring the race of those involved, any player in any sport who runs into the seats of an arena and beats up a fan(s) is certainly subject to a serious suspension as well as other civil and criminal penalties. I'd say the same is true when a player applies a chokehold to a coach.

I really wonder what this author's notion of an ideal punishment for Jack, Artest and JO'Neal would be.

As for Kobe Bryant, I'd say the league treated him quite well, all things considered, since the summer of 2003.

Spurminator
11-22-2004, 12:27 PM
A predominately white fan base is rejecting a predominately black style of play and sportsmanship.

Whitlock does black people a great disservice by suggesting that chasing and slugging fans is a "black style of play."

I am very confused by this column... he knows the suspensions were over a brawl, and not celebration right?

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 12:29 PM
Whitlock does black people a great disservice by suggesting that chasing and slugging fans is a "black style of play."

I'd have to agree.

Spurminator
11-22-2004, 12:29 PM
Honestly, I think there is indeed a racial component to the general public reaction to this incident.

I'm sure that is a factor with some people... but I don't think it had anything to do with the suspensions.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 12:31 PM
So NBA players who happen to be predominantly African-American are being exploited because the predominantly Caucasian-American fan base makes it possible for the players to earn million$ annually? What part of his argument am I missing?

spurs_fan_in_exile
11-22-2004, 12:32 PM
I think he's seriously misdiagnosing this thing. While the majority of the players in the NBA are African American, there are white players who do the chest thumping, "Who da man" bullshit. Jason Williams for one. Bill Lambeer was quite the trash talking fight machine in his day. I can't figure out for the life of me the ethinicity of Doug Christie and Mike Bibby, but whatever the hell they are they fall into the category. The reality is that this culture is not an African American athlete thing, its an AMERICAN athlete thing. The reason you don't see this stuff from a huge amount of white players is because a bunch of them didn't grow up watching high light reels of Bob Costas licking Jordan's balls.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 12:38 PM
A quick re-read of the article after my initial quick reading leaves me with the impression that he would agree with us that the players are responsible for their actions, but it's somehow an unfair standard for the average African-American NBA player and one which they are incapable of living up to.

The article reads like part Malcolm X, part David Duke.

Johnny_Blaze_47
11-22-2004, 12:39 PM
We're witnessing a clash of cultures. A predominately white fan base is rejecting a predominately black style of play and sportsmanship.

It may just be me, but isn't a "predominately white fan base" nearly inevitable with a 1-9 ratio of black to white in this country?

I wouldn't be surprised if the TO issue played a part in this article as well, though.

travis2
11-22-2004, 12:43 PM
A quick re-read of the article after my initial quick reading leaves me with the impression that he would agree with us that the players are responsible for their actions, but it's somehow an unfair standard for the average African-American NBA player and one which they are incapable of living up to.

The article reads like part Malcolm X, part David Duke.

Actually, I didn't read it that way at all. My read was that it doesn't matter what the style of play is...the customer sets the rules, have every right to set the rules, and that's the right thing to do. And "black professional athletes" need to adhere to the rules.

I didn't see him saying that they couldn't adhere...merely that they had to.


Personally, I'm not willing to call it a "black style of play".

But without a doubt, the play in the NBA has gotten more aggressive, more in your face over the years. For whatever reason.

To the extent that these suspensions can curb that...they are a good thing.

IcemanCometh
11-22-2004, 12:45 PM
I think hes talking about Tpark.

samikeyp
11-22-2004, 12:48 PM
Flamboyance is one thing...showboating is another. For every black athlete who acts unsportsmanlike there are 10 more who act like professionals. Artest got harsh treatment because of a history of this behavior. Whitlock drops the race card as much as he drops donuts into his mouth. Just because a black athlete recieves some sort of punishment it does not automatically mean it is racially motivated. There is no evidence that this was racially motivated except in Whitlock's cholesterol soaked brain. Isn't it possible that these players were suspended because..oh, I don't know...they screwed up?

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 12:50 PM
I'm sure that is a factor with some people... but I don't think it had anything to do with the suspensions.

I think a problem is the length of Artest's suspension. Those who aren't familiar with his history might find it excessive, but clearly the NBA (well, Stern) thought it appropriate given his history.

Jack's suspension is a better gauge, since he had pretty much never had never gotten into any trouble prior to last Friday night. 30 games for running into the stands with his fists flying does strike me (ok bad pun) as being appropriate.

The author I am sure would agree that if the players were white and they rushed the seats after one of them was hit with a plastic cup full of beer that the public reaction would be somewhat different. I would agree with that.

Also, if say a Larry Bird instead of a Stephen Jackson went into the stands with fists flying after a teammate did the same I could see him getting a lesser than appropriate suspension. In a situation in which race was not a factor I feel the public outcry would be much less.

I do not feel the situation though is as dramatic as the author makes it out to be, nor that players who happen to be African-American are somehow incapable of being just as civil and capable of good sportsmanship as those who happen not to be.

Jimcs50
11-22-2004, 12:53 PM
Black is not an issue, you do not need to be black to beat up fans. Just look at Hockey, they have 10x the violence that the NBA has.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 12:53 PM
Actually, I didn't read it that way at all. My read was that it doesn't matter what the style of play is...the customer sets the rules, have every right to set the rules, and that's the right thing to do. And "black professional athletes" need to adhere to the rules.

I didn't see him saying that they couldn't adhere...merely that they had to.


He makes that standard out to be unfair, almost de facto because the NBA fan base is predominantly white.

IcemanCometh
11-22-2004, 12:53 PM
I don't think you people understand what hes talking about, as per usual.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 12:55 PM
Black is not an issue, you do not need to be black to beat up fans. Just look at Hockey, they have 10x the violence that the NBA has.

There you go. Violence has long been a part of major league sports in this country. But when it's in the NHL it's regarded as being normal. If a fan throws a beer on a player and the player kicks his ass then he got what he deserved. A fan does the same in the NBA and the players are out of control.

Geez, one brawl in the NBA and suddenly the players are out of hand.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 12:56 PM
I don't think you people understand what hes talking about, as per usual.

Oh sure, he's saying the white people are oppressing the black people because they are the source of the $. What part is missing?

travis2
11-22-2004, 12:57 PM
He makes that standard out to be unfair, almost de facto because the NBA fan base is predominantly white.

No, I disagree completely. Here's the relevant quote from the article:

"...We, black people, begged for integration. We demanded the right to play in the major leagues, the NBA, the NFL, the NHL. These leagues accommodate a white audience. As long as the customer base is white, the standard for appropriate sportsmanship, style of play and appearance should be set by white people.

This is fair, particularly when the athletes/employees earn millions of dollars and have the freedom to do whatever — and I mean whatever — they want when they're not playing or practicing..."

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 01:00 PM
So the "white" standard is "fair" only because the "white" folks are the customers. If not for the fact that the "white" money is the source of the player salaries then such a "white" standard would be unfair to hold the predominantly "black" players to.

samikeyp
11-22-2004, 01:02 PM
Also, if say a Larry Bird instead of a Stephen Jackson went into the stands with fists flying after a teammate did the same I could see him getting a lesser than appropriate suspension.

I think if it was Bird then you might be right but it would be because of superstar status, not race.

If a white player with with same history and talent level as Jackson did what Jackson did and did not recieve an equal suspension, then I think the issue could be there. If that did happen it would be unfair.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 01:06 PM
If a white player with with same history and talent level as Jackson did what Jackson did and did not recieve an equal suspension, then I think the issue could be there. If that did happen it would be unfair.

What if it was an Austin Croshere instead of a Stephen Jackson who rushed into the stands to back up his teammate Artest with fists flying? Think about that for a minute.

samikeyp
11-22-2004, 01:07 PM
As long as the customer base is white, the standard for appropriate sportsmanship, style of play and appearance should be set by white people.

Race should never be a part of this.

travis2
11-22-2004, 01:07 PM
So the "white" standard is "fair" only because the "white" folks are the customers. If not for the fact that the "white" money is the source of the player salaries then such a "white" standard would be unfair to hold the predominantly "black" players to.

I think it is fair to say that the "customer" does and should drive any standard.

I don't see the need to draw the conclusion you seem to be drawing from that statement.

picnroll
11-22-2004, 01:08 PM
The suspensions are to send one message to players, "YOU DO NOT GO INTO THE STANDS, PERIOD". Stern is saying I'm sending this message so there is no misunderstanding what the consequences will be if you're as stupid as Artest or Jackson. Further if a fan is stupid enough to come on the floor you let security handle it or at most use the force necessary to deal with the situation, You don't whale on somebody like O'Neal did. Stern is probqably thanking God O'Neal didn't kill that guy or put him in a coma.

Beyond that the issues of attendance and popularity are multitude and not related. Of course high dollar bystander fans feeling like they risk being injured by 6'8" 240 lb enraged professional ahtletes if they sit in $200 - 300 seats doesn't help with marketing.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 01:11 PM
I think it is fair to say that the "customer" does and should drive any standard.

I don't see the need to draw the conclusion you seem to be drawing from that statement.


I'd agree with you if the author had not chosen to couch his argument as this situation being a case of white customers imposing a standard upon black players which the black players better heed if they want to continue to enjoy the white money. The implication is that it is an unnatural standard to expect the black players to heed.

bigzak25
11-22-2004, 01:13 PM
don't act like trash. respect yourself. respect the game. whatever color you are. period.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 01:14 PM
don't act like trash. respect yourself. respect the game. whatever color you are. period.

So is that a "white" standard?

IcemanCometh
11-22-2004, 01:14 PM
I think you have to ask yourself is why did that fan throw the beer on Artest, why then did a riot erupt shortly thereafter fans vs players. Why during the Olympics did you see Americans openly rooting against the American team?

Theres a feeling of resentment these days vs athletes, especially black athletes. They make too much money, they talk too much trash, they're not thankful enough for what they have, they are too cocky, they are too emersed in hip hop culture, they are thugs, they are gangstas. Just ask Tpark, he'll tell you.

travis2
11-22-2004, 01:15 PM
I'd agree with you if the author had not chosen to couch his argument as this situation being a case of white customers imposing a standard upon black players which the black players better heed if they want to continue to enjoy the white money.

I agree with you that Whitlock did indeed write this...and I think he could have made the same point without couching it in these terms.


The implication is that it is an unnatural standard to expect the black players to heed.

I'm just not seeing this part.

picnroll
11-22-2004, 01:17 PM
Will we see a rule like in the NFL? Technical fouls for excessive taunting or celebrating?

IcemanCometh
11-22-2004, 01:19 PM
don't act like trash. respect yourself. respect the game. whatever color you are. period.

not using this fight, give me an example of acting like trash please.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 01:19 PM
So the white money is oppressing the black players because the white money is holding the black players to a white standard. If the black players don't conform then the white money will go to those who will.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 01:23 PM
Here's the problem. First the author writes...


What the players must come to grips with is that just because race is an element in the backlash, that doesn't mean the backlash is fueled by racism.


He claims that race isn't the issue and yet in the next paragraph...



We're witnessing a clash of cultures. A predominately white fan base is rejecting a predominately black style of play and sportsmanship.

He identifies the backlash as being a culture clash between two 'cultures' which are basically defined by race.

bigzak25
11-22-2004, 01:24 PM
okay. instead of "not act like trash" how about i say, be a professional.

travis2
11-22-2004, 01:24 PM
Where are you getting this, MB???

To me, the obvious read is "Here are the rules, there's nothing wrong with the rules, and if you can't abide by them, too bad".

No "oppression", no "unnatural expectations", or anything like that.

Now, I agree he didn't need to use race to make his argument and he shouldn't have. But having said that, I don't think he used a heavy hand in the way he wrote it into his article.

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 01:26 PM
This sentence:


We're witnessing a clash of cultures. A predominately white fan base is rejecting a predominately black style of play and sportsmanship.

His argument is that the white customers are holding the black players to a non-black standard, which implies that such a standard is unnatural and one that the black players are incapable of living up to.

IcemanCometh
11-22-2004, 01:26 PM
can you define be a proffesional?

travis2
11-22-2004, 01:29 PM
OK, MB...show me "oppression" in that sentence. Show me "unnatural standard".

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 01:30 PM
His argument is that the white customers are holding the black players to a non-black standard, which implies that such a standard is unnatural and one that the black players have been incapable of living up to.

Hence the white customer backlash.

bigzak25
11-22-2004, 01:32 PM
well. the players are at work. how about they do their job and follow the rules.

unsportmanlike conduct is not professional. and artest's cheap shot to wallace is what started the whole damn thing. attacking fans is also not professional.

GoSpurs21
11-22-2004, 01:35 PM
how bout the simple fact that most fans are sick of athletes acting like assholes and not being accountable for their behavior

if you want to act like a gang banger go play in a league where the gang bangers pay your salary. for the most part most people in this country would not care if gang bangers were eliminated from the planet. after all what is there usefulness to sociaty except thinning out the gene pool by killing off each other

travis2
11-22-2004, 01:36 PM
His argument is that the white customers are holding the black players to a non-black standard, which implies that such a standard is unnatural and one that the black players have been incapable of living up to.

Hence the white customer backlash.

You're way out on a limb with this one, MB...

Look, you know I've got your back on any racial issue you want to name...and I've been accused of over-reaching in my arguments more than once. But I just don't see this one...

IcemanCometh
11-22-2004, 01:36 PM
i did say aside from the fight mention something that was trashy (unprofessional). fouling is extremely professionl, simply part of the game. it was hardly a cheap shot, no more than wallaces foul on artest the previous possesion, however you might deem wallaces retaliation to be unprofessional

IcemanCometh
11-22-2004, 01:38 PM
how bout the simple fact that most fans are sick of certain athletes acting like assholes and not being accountable for their behavior

if you want to act like a gang banger go play in a league where the gang bangers pay your salary. for the most part most people in this country would not care if gang bangers were eliminated from the planet. after all what is there usefulness to sociaty except thinning out the gene pool by killing off each other

thanks for your opinion tpark

picnroll
11-22-2004, 01:38 PM
Up fifteen, seconds to play = cheap shot.

IcemanCometh
11-22-2004, 01:40 PM
oh so its professional now to not play 100% at all times?

Marcus Bryant
11-22-2004, 01:41 PM
His argument is that the "black players" must realize that they are being held to a "white" standard. Despite his claim that this is not racially driven he couches this as being a conflict betwen two cultures, cultures which he identifies in terms of race.

He ends by arguing that if the black players do not live up to this white standard then they will be out of the NBA.

The general tone of his article is that this is indeed unfair, save for the "reality" that the customer is always right.

bigzak25
11-22-2004, 01:57 PM
ice, it looked like artest though an elbow or forearm to the back of wallaces head or at least in his neck area.....that was from me watching that replay once though....that is not part of the game. that is a trash play.

artest wanted his time off and he wanted his street cred. wish granted.

travis2
11-22-2004, 02:00 PM
His argument is that the "black players" must realize that they are being held to a "white" standard. Despite his claim that this is not racially driven he couches this as being a conflict betwen two cultures, cultures which he identifies in terms of race.

He ends by arguing that if the black players do not live up to this white standard then they will be out of the NBA.

The general tone of his article is that this is indeed unfair, save for the "reality" that the customer is always right.

Well, you and I are going to have to (partially) agree to disagree...

GoSpurs21
11-22-2004, 02:09 PM
thanks for your opinion tparkI am not tpark, but are seriuosly telling me gang bangers serve a useful place in todays society?

Bandit2981
11-22-2004, 02:43 PM
this is off subject, but speaking of race, i was wondering if what made the monday night football skit turn into such a firestorm stemmed from the fact it was interracial. if it was vinnie in the skit, would there have been as much controversy? i wonder.

Spurminator
11-22-2004, 02:51 PM
Yes. There was a naked woman in a program viewed by old people. It wouldn't have mattered if it was Terrell Owens, Troy Aikman or Johnny Unitas.

Rummpd
11-22-2004, 03:08 PM
Is there an e-mail address for this "Race Card" author? I want to give him a piece of my mind (and I am not racist). In fact, I am married to a beautiful women from Panama who happens to be 1/3 black and believe me she would be totally pissed off by him "playing this card". Her comment after seeing this brawl was "you would not see David Robinson or Tim Duncan behaving like that".

MadDoc

Bandit2981
11-22-2004, 03:14 PM
"I love black people, but i hate niggaz!" - Chris Rock

2pac
11-22-2004, 04:47 PM
If we are gonna play the race card:


Latrell (black) chokes PJ Carlisimo (white)

Pacers (black) take on white detroit fans

Kermit (black) clocks RudyT (white)

Vernon Maxwell hits white fan

Charles Barkley spits on white girl

Dennis Rodman kicks white photographer in the sack.

NVE shoves a white ref

Rodman head butts a white ref

duncan2k5
11-22-2004, 05:48 PM
kobe rapes a white girl

Johnny_Blaze_47
11-22-2004, 06:20 PM
If we are gonna play the race card:



Dennis Rodman kicks white photographer in the sack.



I thought this guy was black.

SequSpur
11-22-2004, 06:25 PM
NBA players make to much money. They priced me out from seasons to half a season to a 10 game pack to a 5 game lottery team pack.

Now I am forced to see lottery teams play the Spurs. Next year, I will be at home watching them.

Nice hummer, nice crib, nice bling bling..... Whatever....

Nice watching them for free on TV.

samikeyp
11-22-2004, 06:41 PM
He was, Blaze.

duncan2k5
11-22-2004, 06:44 PM
Owned

T Park
11-22-2004, 06:53 PM
NBA players make to much money

in your opinion.


you nor anyone else should say to a person "you make too much money"

that is none of your business, nor is it right for you to say a person makes too much money.

That is there business

SequSpur
11-22-2004, 07:16 PM
in your opinion.


you nor anyone else should say to a person "you make too much money"

that is none of your business, nor is it right for you to say a person makes too much money.

That is there business

Huh? I can say whatever I want. NBA players make to much money.

Your rides take to many tickets.

You take up to much space on this forum.

And you take up to much space in your seat.

:elephant

T Park
11-22-2004, 07:18 PM
intelligent.

took you what, 2 seconds sitting on the toilet to think that up??

But, your loved here more, so I bow before you.

SequSpur
11-22-2004, 07:20 PM
:lmao

Dude, go take some prozac or something.... Simma down now! Go jump off a bridge.

Shelly
11-22-2004, 07:25 PM
in your opinion.


you nor anyone else should say to a person "you make too much money"

that is none of your business, nor is it right for you to say a person makes too much money.

That is there business


They DO make too much money, as do actors. It kills me how highly uneducated people out there make millions (and lets face it, some of these people are not educated and can barely speak English properly) just because they have some 'sport' talent.

Yet, you have teachers who are lucky if they make more than $40k a year on a good day.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid wll, but there is no reason people should be making 9 million or more a year just because they can put a ball through a hoop.

T Park
11-22-2004, 07:25 PM
if you think you bother me that much, you are drinkin early.

T Park
11-22-2004, 07:27 PM
They DO make too much money, as do actors. It kills me how highly uneducated people out there make millions (and lets face it, some of these people are not educated and can barely speak English properly) just because they have some 'sport' talent.

Yet, you have teachers who are lucky if they make more than $40k a year on a good day.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid wll, but there is no reason people should be making 9 million or more a year just because they can put a ball through a hoop.


Thats life, it sucks, if everything were fair, GOOD TEACHERS would make the millions, and the BBall players would make 40 grand.


The Market dictates otherwise, and to say just because a guy cant speak well, or because he isnt a rhodes scholar doesnt deserve a certain amount of money, is a little ascanine.

Shelly
11-22-2004, 07:30 PM
Thats life, it sucks, if everything were fair, GOOD TEACHERS would make the millions, and the BBall players would make 40 grand.


The Market dictates otherwise, and to say just because a guy cant speak well, or because he isnt a rhodes scholar doesnt deserve a certain amount of money, is a little ascanine.

No, it's not asinine. I would think you would value an education over sports. Guess not.

I've heard you call a lot of players 'thugs'. Do they derserve the money they make because they play a sport?

SequSpur
11-22-2004, 07:33 PM
Nice take Tpark. However, NBA and MLB salaries are out of control. One day the balance will be tipped to the wrong side. Some teams will not be able to make it and some will, that's life. One day, the consumer is not going to be able to pay the big jack. 3% is the inflation rate, however, the NBA and MLB are probably 15+% yearly.

One day it will catch up and the balance will fall.

Spurminator
11-22-2004, 07:35 PM
For better or for worse, nobody spends thousands of dollars to watch teachers teach 40 times a year.

T Park
11-22-2004, 07:36 PM
that I agree with Sequ, but I think checks and balances like new collective bargaining agreements solve things like that.

Shelly, yes some are thugs, and I dont think they should get that money, but, its not my money, if they are good players then they have technically earned it.

Once again, dont think I wouldnt rather have the real people get the real money.

Soldiers, teachers, policeman, and such.

SequSpur
11-22-2004, 07:39 PM
Garnett is making 28 mill? correct? Who is going to be the owner or manager to tell that mofo that he is capped out and will never get a raise? It will happen one day.

We make alot of money but we spend alot of money.

Shelly
11-22-2004, 07:39 PM
For better or for worse, nobody spends thousands of dollars to watch teachers teach 40 times a year.

Yes, I know that. But the whole discussion was about athletes being overpaid. Look how a lot of people bitched at JAX holding out for more money

So what were NBA salaries back in the 60s and 70s? Were the salaries comparable to what they are now in today's world?

Spurminator
11-22-2004, 07:42 PM
Garnett is making 28 mill? correct?

Incorrect.

T Park
11-22-2004, 07:43 PM
no they arent.

but the TV ratings, attendance, jersey sales ETC wasnt what it was today either.

it was viewed back then as "just a game" now its considered high dollar entertainment, akin to the Theatre, or the Movies.

SequSpur
11-22-2004, 07:44 PM
What is he making?

Spurminator
11-22-2004, 07:47 PM
He resigned for, I think, the max. I could be wrong, but it was definitely lower than his last contract.

IcemanCometh
11-22-2004, 09:24 PM
They DO make too much money, as do actors. It kills me how highly uneducated people out there make millions (and lets face it, some of these people are not educated and can barely speak English properly) just because they have some 'sport' talent.

Yet, you have teachers who are lucky if they make more than $40k a year on a good day.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid wll, but there is no reason people should be making 9 million or more a year just because they can put a ball through a hoop.

What are you a communist? Its called supply and demand, capitalism. Its easy as fuck to a be a teacher, they let any moron do it these days, you don't even need a degree, probably why kids are so damn stupid. However not everyone can be a basketball player or an actor. The world needs ditch diggers too you know.

Shelly
11-22-2004, 10:03 PM
i guess i am, then.

IcemanCometh
11-22-2004, 10:07 PM
http://www.jimgoad.com/cgi-bin/archives/commie.gif

Shelly
11-22-2004, 10:10 PM
:lol

Don't make me go tpark on you... (just kidding tpark)

I didn't say they shouldn't get paid a lot, but I do believe there are a lot of players out there that aren't worth their salaries. Getting paid millions of dollars to ride the pine is stupid.