My Ballas Got in Big Trouble

[Ghost Writer]

You may recall that I advocated for a trade that Chicago offered the Spurs in 2001 that would've sent us Ron Mercer and Ron Artest for Steve Smith.

You may recall that I was pleased when the Spurs got Stephen Jackson off the NJ Nets scrap heap.

You may recall that Artest and Jackson are two of my favorite players and just the type of swingmen I wish were on the Spurs instead of, say, Bruce Bowen.

You may recall that I've long maintained that I feel the Spurs have an anti-balla bias.

You may recall that over the weekend, Artest and Jackson snapped in Detroit.






Now I am not trying to absolve either from what went down this past Friday night, but here's a few thoughts:

1. Ben Wallace shoved Artest hard to the throat after a justifies hard foul as Wallace was trying to dunk.

2. Artest did not retaliate against Wallace.

3. Artest restrained himself, laying down on the scorer's table.

4. The drunk Detroit fans, aggravated that the Pacers were killing the Pistons on their home floor with Artest leading the way, made a touchy situation get out of control.

5. Artest lost it only after getting nailed with the plastic cup.

6. Stephen Jackson came to his aid, like any other good teammate would do.



Now, I can't justify all the blows that were thrown, but I can say that if you've ever felt threatened and/or outnumbered, your adrenaline starts pumping and you tend to wild out.


And let's not act like if Artest didn't have 3 years of bordeline lunatic behavoir on his resume, the Pistons fans and David Stern, consequently, wouldn't have made him a target.



This event didturbs me. I think the Pistons players and their fans got off way too easy.


The Pacers looked poised to be the best in the East this year.

Now Detroit has the inside track again.



Some kids at that game will be traumatized because of this.


Fantasy teams across the globe got killed, too.


Awful.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yes they did. Thankfully Artest is not a Spur.


This message is hidden because Ghost Writer is on your ignore list.

:smokin

[IcemanCometh]

shut up

[Jimcs50]

Ballas= thugs


You can have them, Ghost


I like the makeup of our team.

Wallace should have gotten a 20 game suspension as well.

[GoSpurs21]

Jax went into the croud to wail on innocent fans - your high if you think that is defending his teammate

Your opions have now crossed over to the absurd (thx Jim for the spell check)

Detroit players have no blame in this other that B Wallace
Detroit fans did not endanger any of the Pacers lives, never heard of anyone being killed by a plastic cup of beer

Two wacked out players finally snapped and got exactly what they deserve. Why the hell were they still playing when the game was already decided.

Hopefully this sends a message to nut job players in all the major leagues that the fans will not put up with your shit anymore

what this really shows is that if you have a team of "ballas" (headcases) you run the chance of disappointing your fan base cause these "ballas" are undependable.

Im glad that Jax will never be a Spur again, and am embarrassed that he ever was one

[Ghost Writer]

IceMan go fvck Marcus.

This incident doesn't happen if Wallace doesn't shove Artest.

That's like throwing a match on a haystack.

[FromWayDowntown]

There's ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFICATION for what Jax, Artest, O'Neal and the various other Pacers and Pistons did on Friday night. There is no socialization, mental illness, background issues, and no amount of "balladom" that explains what happened.

Artest had a cup thrown at him and, perhaps, a few indiscreet words thrown his way. I'm not saying he deserved any of that, but I am saying that those things gave him no right to go after a fan in the stands. It's not self-defense, it's bullshit machismo. More than that, it's assault and battery, which, last I checked, remains a crime in every U.S. jurisdiction.

All Ron had to do was slip off that table to the right and head to the locker room. He should have allowed Palace security and the Auburn Hills P.D. to do what they're paid to do. Fans are prohibited from throwing things at players for any reason -- the result of such an action, by NBA rule, is ejection and arrest. Players are prohibited from intentionally entering the stands for any reason -- the result of such an action, by NBA rule, is ejection and suspension. Artest may have been mad, but getting mad is no basis for violating rules, committing crimes, and endangering yourself and countless others.

Keep trying to rationalize this stuff, but had any of us done what Artest did, we'd be stewing in a cell today. Book it.

[GoSpurs21]

IceMan go fvck Marcus.

This incident doesn't happen if Wallace doesn't shove Artest.

That's like throwing a match on a haystack.This incident doesn't happen if Artest stays on the court where he belongs numb nuts

you are just like Artest blame everyone expect where the blame truly lies

why dont you go and support the AND 1 league, thats the kind of guys you like anyway. the Spurs dont need fans like you

face it GW, you backed a couple of nut jobs and it blew up in your face. you now are trying to explain to everyone why the egg is all over your face but everyone is too busy trying not to laugh too hard to hear you.

[Jimcs50]

"Your opions have now crossed over to the obserd"

Do you mean absurd?

:)

[CosmicCowboy]

Fantasy teams across the globe got killed, too.

no shit....

in one weekend I lost Ben Wallace, SJackson, Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol...

ugh!

[spurster]

Stephen Jackson came to his aid, like any other good teammate would do.
This is absolutely, completely wrong-headed.

Coming to his aid would have meant grabbing Artest and doing whatever it took to control him. Instead, SJax wins 2nd place for knucklehead-of-the-year by making the situation much, much worse. Before SJax enters, it's just Artest and a few fans (already bad enough). After SJax enters, it becomes a melee.

If that is coming to your aid, I hope I don't have too many friends like that.

[Marcus Bryant]

Wow, Ghost must be mad if he's saying such things. :)

Jack done fucked up. It's a shame. Hopefully he will be able to recover from this and rehabilitate his career.

[Marcus Bryant]

FWD said it all:


There's ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFICATION for what Jax, Artest, O'Neal and the various other Pacers and Pistons did on Friday night. There is no socialization, mental illness, background issues, and no amount of "balladom" that explains what happened.

Artest had a cup thrown at him and, perhaps, a few indiscreet words thrown his way. I'm not saying he deserved any of that, but I am saying that those things gave him no right to go after a fan in the stands. It's not self-defense, it's bullshit machismo. More than that, it's assault and battery, which, last I checked, remains a crime in every U.S. jurisdiction.

All Ron had to do was slip off that table to the right and head to the locker room. He should have allowed Palace security and the Auburn Hills P.D. to do what they're paid to do. Fans are prohibited from throwing things at players for any reason -- the result of such an action, by NBA rule, is ejection and arrest. Players are prohibited from intentionally entering the stands for any reason -- the result of such an action, by NBA rule, is ejection and suspension. Artest may have been mad, but getting mad is no basis for violating rules, committing crimes, and endangering yourself and countless others.

Keep trying to rationalize this stuff, but had any of us done what Artest did, we'd be stewing in a cell today. Book it.



Expect Ghost to argue against that ad naseum for the next year(s). During that time all I will see is this:



This message is hidden because Ghost Writer is on your ignore list.


A few thousand times.


Good Times.© 2002 Balla, Inc.

:cooldevil

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Damn straight Spurster. In fact, if you watch the video closely of Jackson crazying it up in the stands, it looks like Artest (after destroying the little guy he attacks) actually reaches out and tries to grab his jersey. Artest snapped but he got his wits back pretty quick. I Jackson think would be still be in the stands swinging for the fences if someone hadn't grabbed him.

[bigzak25]

it's like they say, you can take the balla out of the hood...BUT...

[Marcus Bryant]

I think it's telling that Ghost is apparently arguing that one should expect young African-American males (or "ballas", to use his dullish euphemism) to behave violently and without any semblance of self-control.

[Spurminator]

Did we need a new thread for this?

[Kaster]

:elephant

[Kori Ellis]

6. Stephen Jackson came to his aid, like any other good teammate would do.

C'mon Ghost. He wasn't going in to aid Artest. He was dying to fight. Here's my post about the same subject.



I stopped feeling bad for Jack last night. I have defend him as much as Ghost has in the past. But he tried to fight Lindsay Hunter when the chaos was already simmering down, then when he went into the stands -- he had no intention at all of just pulling out Artest. He went in to fight and only to fight. So I put him on the punk list and wrote him off.

I really thought that he wasn't a punk. He had his third baby and got married this summer and wanted long-term security and a clean organization. And last night, he was nothing but a ghetto thug.

:flipoff Jack

I cried when he didn't re-sign in S.A.

Wasted tears.

[SequSpur]

Artest should have went after Wallace.

But obviously he is a puss. He went after the wrong kid. A pip squeek at that.

Why couldn't you just post in a topic that was already started?

Drama Queen.

[Duff McCartney]

This incident doesn't happen if Wallace doesn't shove Artest.

No this incident doesn't happen if Artest doesn't run in the stands like a moron.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Ron Artest was dumb.

Stephen Jackson was dumber.

End of discussion.

[dcole50]

2. Artest did not retaliate against Wallace.
Right, he's a punk and a coward. Instead of going after the guy who nearly choked him, he attacked an innocent, dweeby fan.

Way to cost Reggie a chance at a ring .. which is actually fine with me. ;)

[boutons]

"Artest restrained himself, laying down on the scorer's table"

Total BS.

1. NO player should be reclining on the scorer's table.

2. With IND having won the game,

3. on DET's court,

4. Artest having rubbed salt in the would with a cheap (from behind) flagrant foul, with under 1 minute left,

5. Artest was doing his best to be provocative.

I'm glad this nutcase disgrace is out of the league for a year. May he lose millions more in legal battles.

[adidas11]

Quote: "This event didturbs me. I think the Pistons players and their fans got off way too easy."

Bingo.

[FromWayDowntown]

Even if the Pistons and their fans get off light, those facts do NOTHING to absolve Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal for the blame they've rightfully been assessed for this situation.

Some around here act as if there is an immutable, God-given right to kick some ass if you're mad or feel disrespected. Unfortunately, THAT'S NOT THE LAW. Jermaine, Ronnie, and Jax VIOLATED THE LAW on Friday night. The fans did, too, but the fans' violation does not create an excuse for those punks to act like they did.

It's ego and ego never justifies criminal activity.

I'm beginning to understand why jails are so overcrowded these days. . . . .

[Ghost Writer]

If you read my original thread, I made no apologies for what Artest or Jackson did.

In fact, I am disappointed and a little despondent over it.

However, I'd like to see what each and every one of you holier-than-thou posters in this thread would've done in the same spot.

Have you ever lost your cool?

Have you ever been in a fight with your boys?

Didn't think so.

[bigzak25]

i had a good friend who started talking shit and "swoll" up on me in college. i beat his ass. i didn't know he was doing the cocaina, and was thus prone to paranoia and hyped up...oh well.

i don't what I would do if i was in artests shoes. a beer? no big deal...find out who, and make sure he gets removed/banned from the arena. ON THE OTHER HAND, if someone spit on me...i would act just like artest did. but I don't think artest "lost" it as many say. i think he is smarter than most give him credit for. sure he threw away a few million, but I know he wanted that time off and was looking for a reason. and I know nothing sells an album like "street cred" or willingness to fight.

[FromWayDowntown]

However, I'd like to see what each and every one of you holier-than-thou posters in this thread would've done in the same spot.

Have you ever lost your cool?

Have you ever been in a fight with your boys?

Since I'd imagine you're directing some of that at me, I'll engage you: I've been in positions to lose my cool plenty of times. But I also realize that I have responsibilities because I live in a civilized society. My responsibility is to respect the rights of others, even if they don't respect my rights. I also realize that if I don't hold up my responsibility, I have to face punishment, which would mean criminal charges, maybe jail time, and probably losing my job. I have a choice to make, and every time I've faced that choice, I've decided that it's better to keep my poise -- my status as a person and a man has nothing to do with whether I kick someone's ass when I'm upset; in fact, I have much more respect for those who turn the other cheek than I do for those who lose their cool and act irresponsibly.

Want an example? I took my mom, a huge Spurs fan, to Staples Center for the Mother's Day Debacle this spring. As we left Staples, Lakers fans were shouting all kinds of horrendous things at us and one even spat at us. What did I do? I certainly didn't charge after any of those people. I continued walking, escorting my mother out of the building, trying my best to ignore what said and done. Did it make me mad? Sure. Did I feel like I needed to kick some ass to vindicate myself? Absolutely not, because I had no justification for doing so. Trust me, had someone given me provocation by touching or actually threatening me or my mother, I would have been happy to engage. But since that didn't happen, I had no justification. It's really a pretty simple matter. Being pissed doesn't give you a right to commit a crime.

[GoSpurs21]

I stopped fighting about the same time I got out of college. No profit in it.

No I have never attacked any of my customers no matter how mad they got me, I was always able to maintain my cool and professionallism.

I guess that's what makes me different from you GW, I always think about the results of my actions. I guess Artest, Jackson and O'Neal just dont like to think.

[Clandestino]

the guy who threw the beer in artest's face while he was in the stands already is who jax went after. i think it was justified.

[Spurminator]

the guy who threw the beer in artest's face while he was in the stands already is who jax went after. i think it was justified.

The beer was thrown at Artest because he was trying to KICK SOMEONE'S ASS.

How does that justify Jackson wailing on him?


You people have fucked up concepts of manhood.

[Marcus Bryant]

It was only a matter of time before Ghost accused those who disagreed with his expectation that all young African-Americans are violent of never being in such a situation before.

Next he'll challenge you on the toughness of your upbringing and your ethnicity.

After that, he'll accuse you of being a Klan member.

And so on.

[wildbill2u]

"Fantasy teams across the globe got killed, too"

As if this should be a consideration. Of all the stupid justifications for these millionaire idiots, for giving these players a lighter sentence, this must be the absolute worst.

[ALVAREZ6]

Yeah but who cares if the fans got off light, you should never run into the stands, thats the last thing a player should do.
But i dont blame Artest that much, if a fan threw a cup at me, i would go kick his @$$ like Artest did. You dont throw cups at players, filled with ice n beer. The fan that threw the cup at Artest and the fan that threw a chair shouldn't be allowed in an NBA arena ever, that chair could have knocked someone out, who knows.

But i do agree with whoever said that Artest's adrenaline was pumpin after the shove from Ben Wallace, so he just reacted like any other human being, and went furious.
One thing i dont understand which was already mentioned by someone, is that why didnt Ron react in fury when Big Ben shoved him. Now, its only obvious that he has no chance with Ben Wallace.

[spurster]

What Artest and SJax did cannot be justified no matter how hard you try.

Lost their cool? These guys have been told over and over again to ignore the fans no matter what they do. These guys are hired to be professionals, are told how to be professional, and should act like professionals instead of punks. They are getting millions to act like professionals. In fact, they should be prepared in advance to know how to react in that kind of situation.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

"Fantasy teams across the globe got killed, too"

As if this should be a consideration. Of all the stupid justifications for these millionaire idiots, for giving these players a lighter sentence, this must be the absolute worst.

Far be it for me to defend Ghost, but I seriously don't think he was saying that should be a reason for a sentence reduction. I believe he was simply making a point that we all probably mentioned as soon as the initial shock wore down.

Kori and I even went back and forth since she has SJax in some leagues and I have Artest in FSP1.