Spurs vs. Nuggets Game 3 - Grades

[timvp]

Tim Duncan
Duncan didn't have his greatest game of all-time, but I thought he gave a very good effort. He was dead tired in the fourth quarter and instead of slowing down, he kept doing as much as he could. His determination and will to win were off the charts tonight. Again, didn't play overly great, but I'll take that type of effort every night.
Grade: B+


Manu Ginobili
This is the Manu I've been waiting for. He didn't have a fantastic night shooting the basketball, but Manu was Manu tonight. When he's attacking the basket, getting to the free throw line and creating for himself and others, the Spurs are damn hard to beat. If he can bottle up what he did tonight, the Spurs are going to be alright. He had a couple of defensive lapses and forced a few passes, but he more than made up for it with his overall aggressiveness. It was night and day from the first two games to this series.
Grade: A-


Tony Parker
Parker is having an odd playoff series. I thought he played poorly for large stretches tonight, but he'd respond with some important possessions. He started off the fourth quarter missing his first three shots, but responded with three huge baskets down the stretch. He also deserves props for playing very good defense on Iverson -- even though AI was hitting tough shots. When Duncan and Manu wore down in the fourth, Parker keeping his energy level up was also key. But really, Parker hasn't played as well as he could so far. He can play a lot better ... which I guess is a good sign for the Spurs. Through it all, he led the Spurs in scoring, had only one turnover and is the Spurs' leading scorer on the series.
Grade: C


Bruce Bowen
Bowen wasn't having too good of a game on either end of the court, but I liked that he kept at it. He wasn't backing down even though he wasn't having near the defensive game he had in Game 2. The Nuggets obviously had the game plan that they'd be physical with Bowen and push him coming off screens and when they had the ball. The refs weren't calling the fouls, so it negated a lot of his defense. But instead of giving up or complaining too much, he kept fighting.
Grade: C-


Francisco Elson
Hey, not bad by the big Dutchman. Didn't play overly well, but at least didn't hurt the Spurs too much. In this matchup, that's about the most you can ask. Decent production, hit his first two shots of the series and stayed within himself. He's a placeholder for Horry and Oberto at this point, but at least today he held his place and didn't hurt the Spurs in his minutes.
Grade: B


Michael Finley
Finley is having a monster playoff run so far. Not only is he knocking down shots, he's playing the best defense of his life. Without his overall confidence out there, the Spurs would be in trouble. He's rebounding now after getting none in Game 1 and is playing about as smart as I've ever seen him play. Can't really complain about anything he's doing out there.
Grade: A-


Brent Barry
Barry had a nice steal in his five minutes. He never really got an open look but his defense was pretty solid. This isn't the series for him, but it's good that he's not a liability in his few minutes on the court.
Grade: B


Fabricio Oberto
Didn't quite have a Game 2 like performance, but I thought he was good. His post defense was very good and continues to play smart, winning basketball. He didn't have much of an impact on the stat sheet, but he was solid and contributed to the win.
Grade: B


Robert Horry
What can you say about this guy? He looks like the worst player in the league during the regular season and then comes out and might have been the best player on the court. His basketball IQ is so off the charts it's scary. Amazing game for Horry, with too many big plays to even begin to mention them. Hopefully he can keep this up.
Grade: A+


Jacque Vaughn
Vaughn did a better job of not shooting today. In the first two games, I thought he looked for his shot too much. This game he finished with zero field goal attempts. That's about the right amount of shots you want him taking. Defensively he wasn't great, but did a pretty good job. As long as he can come in and run the show for a few minutes while playing rugged defense, that should be enough.
Grade: B-


Pop
Very nicely coached game tonight by Pop. I thought the rotations were right on the money. He kept Ginobili and Horry fresh, playing them a combined 60 minutes even though they were both playing so well. Oh and perhaps Pop was right by limiting Duncan's minutes in Game 2 because at the end of this game, Duncan looked drained after playing 40 minutes. Giving Parker more time on AI seemed to help keep AI from going totally off. He also ran much more 4-Down in the fourth quarter instead of motion, which was something I've been asking for. Running everything through Duncan on the block or isolating Parker and Ginobili is the way to go against Denver because it lessens the defensive impact of Camby. Great adjustments on both ends of the court.
Grade: A

[kris]

You're good at this. You are the Chris Landry of the Spurs.

[SequSpur]

:lmao

Dude, Pop did get an A tonight. :clap

[ducks]

tp could play better but he is averaging over 4 rebounds a game 6 assist a game
more then regular season
plus he is spending alot of energy guarding ai
when ai was a sixer pop did not want him to score one game just play d on him]

[SpurCapita]

The one knock tonight on Horry's performance was his loose-ball foul on the offensive glass with just over a minute to go and the Spurs in the penalty. Those types of plays are inexcusable, especially for such a savvy veteran like Horry. I'll give him an "A" for effort though on the play, which actually brings his game grade down to an "A", IMHO. :fro

[makedamnsure]

spot on

[GrandeDavid]

The only note I might disagree with is Tony Parker. The fact that he hit some timely outside jumpers to keep the Denver defense honest warrants a "B" in my opinion. He would've gotten an "A" if not for some erratic turnovers.

[Kobulingam]

[b]Francisco Elson
Hey, not bad by the big Dutchman. Didn't play overly well, but at least didn't hurt the Spurs too much. In this matchup, that's about the most you can ask. Decent production, hit his first two shots of the series and stayed within himself. He's a placeholder for Horry and Oberto at this point, but at least today he held his place and didn't hurt the Spurs in his minutes.
Grade: B




:lol :downspin: :lol :lol :downspin: :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

you give duncan a b+ while elson did jackshit gets a b?

[ducks]

according to yahoo
tp had one yes one turnover
he was such a turnover machine tonight :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

[ducks]

tp took one bad shot (a three point shot)
throw the ball on a fast break to horry when he should have just drove it in for a layup
but he deserved a b not a c tonight

[GrandeDavid]

according to yahoo
tp had one yes one turnover
he was such a turnover machine tonight :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

You're right. Tony played a nice game. I didn't consult the stat sheet. But that one turnover stood out in my mind. Also, please understand that I drank lots of beer during the game. :lol

[ducks]

yeah it was a bad turnover

[timvp]

you give duncan a b+ while elson did jackshit gets a b?

For the 59,000th time, players are graded on how well they played compared to their individual potential. One grade doesn't compare to another grade. If that were the case, Duncan would always get an A and everyone else would be getting D's or F's.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Since Duncan looked somewhat winded at playing 40 mpg, does Pop keep pushing him since it's the playoffs or maybe try a different substitution pattern?

[ducks]

this was the first game pop played duncan 40 minutes
I hope spurs get a lead and he does not have to play 40 minutes in denver
in sa it would not be a problem

[timvp]

Since Duncan looked somewhat winded at playing 40 mpg, does Pop keep pushing him since it's the playoffs or maybe try a different substitution pattern?

I'd hope that Duncan and Parker can both average around 40 minutes in close games, but we'll see if Duncan being tired tonight has an effect on him in Game 4. Hopefully not.

[td4mvp21]

Duncan could play 40+ anywhere but Denver I think..or at least he should be able too, he should be in good enough condition.

[Cry Havoc]

Duncan: I'll give him a B+. He made some huge defensive plays, but took some ill advised shots as well. If it wasn't for a few REALLY easy putbacks, his offensive numbers would have been less impressive.

Ginobili: B. I thought he was brilliant in stretches and disappeared in others. His defense was mostly solid tonight, and he kept the Nuggets defense on their heels.

Parker: B! I say this emphatically! His offense was inconsistent and he made a few silly gaffs, but his D on Iverson was stellar tonight! If anyone TiVo'ed this, watch him fight through the screens and move laterally like crazy. He was one of the best players on the floor. Parker was absolutely the key guy to consistently collapsing the Denver defense and had them playing scared and tentative. Of course, they would probably be a bit more ready to step out on Parker if....

Finley: A+. Great defense. Great shooting. Very few mistakes. Unbelievable contribution, and best of all: I bet the Mavs wish they had him against the Warriors about now. :lol

Bowen: D+. His defense wasn't that great tonight, and he missed several open jumpers. But at least he didn't jack 'em up all night.

Horry: A+. Nothing needs be said about this guy, other than he was the MVP of the game. Ridiculously clutch defense and amazing shots.

Elson: C. Good grade for him, but still making the bone-headed fouls and not playing smart ball. Oh well, he didn't -hurt- us tonight at least.

Pop: B+. I'm not sure about having Parker AND Manu on the bench during a key stretch in the fourth quarter, but hey, it worked and we won. I wish wish wish Pop would make these guys work through Duncan more often, it slows the game down and forces the D to wear themselves out chasing the ball as it goes Parker - Duncan - Finley - Parker - Duncan - Parker - Manu - 3 points. But hey, we won, and that's all that matters right now.

Let's win Game 4 and send the Nuggets packing in 5 at home. That would give us so much momentum heading into Phoenix (or L.A. :lol )

[planaria]

As a Nuggets fan I say that Parker really impressed me more than Manu in the third game.

He hit tons of tough shots and gave us a lot of problem tonight. My props for him.

Plus, Horry and Finley made our horrible "rotation defense" pay for all those wide open treys.

[timvp]

Parker was hard to grade. For stretches he was the worst player on the court, but for other stretches he was the best player on the court. His shots in the fourth were huge and his defense was outstanding in stretches. I'll probably watch the game again and see if it should be adjusted, but for now I'll stick with the C.

:smokin

[kris]

Tony should get a C just for clearing out Duncan and then picking up his dribble against Nene on the angle. That was redirkulously stupid.

[E20]

I'm pissed that I missed the game, I tried following it on my cell phone while at work. Once I saw the Spurs were up in the 3rd I pissed my pants with joy. Excellent overall effort by the Spurs today. HWOOOOOOOOOOOOWHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[mVp]

parker was parker... with the good and the bad, if you know what i mean... i think we can live with it

[aaronstampler]

I have issues with a few of these.


Tim Duncan
Duncan didn't have his greatest game of all-time, but I thought he gave a very good effort. He was dead tired in the fourth quarter and instead of slowing down, he kept doing as much as he could. His determination and will to win were off the charts tonight. Again, didn't play overly great, but I'll take that type of effort every night.
Grade: B+

I'd give Tim a B-, at best. I think he had a poor shooting night, left a lot of shots short and his good work on the offensive boards inflates his rebounding number when really he was pretty weak on the defensive glass, which is more important. I think overall he was more of a defensive force in Game 2, and he had 0 turnovers that night as opposed to three today.


Manu Ginobili
This is the Manu I've been waiting for. He didn't have a fantastic night shooting the basketball, but Manu was Manu tonight. When he's attacking the basket, getting to the free throw line and creating for himself and others, the Spurs are damn hard to beat. If he can bottle up what he did tonight, the Spurs are going to be alright. He had a couple of defensive lapses and forced a few passes, but he more than made up for it with his overall aggressiveness. It was night and day from the first two games to this series.
Grade: A-

See this I don't get. His statline really wasn't all that different from Game 2. His aggressiveness going to the rim in the first half today was no different then the second half last time. I think the main difference is in Game 2 the Nuggets let him finish off some lay-ups and today they decided, "Fuck that, we're foulin' his ass." I was a bit disappointed Manu wore down in the 4th and we were lucky that Tony and Horry hit some shots late. I think it's a bit overdramatic to go from giving him a "C" in game 2 to an "A-" in Game 3 when really he didn't play that differently overall. I'd have gone maybe a "B-" at worst in Game 2, and a "B+" at best here.


Tony Parker
Parker is having an odd playoff series. I thought he played poorly for large stretches tonight, but he'd respond with some important possessions. He started off the fourth quarter missing his first three shots, but responded with three huge baskets down the stretch. He also deserves props for playing very good defense on Iverson -- even though AI was hitting tough shots. When Duncan and Manu wore down in the fourth, Parker keeping his energy level up was also key. But really, Parker hasn't played as well as he could so far. He can play a lot better ... which I guess is a good sign for the Spurs. Through it all, he led the Spurs in scoring, had only one turnover and is the Spurs' leading scorer on the series.
Grade: C

This, I think, was harsh. Yeah, he took maybe five or six shots I wish he hadn't, but besides that I think Tony played his best game of the series. He really stepped up for us big time in the 4th and I'm one of those people that weighs the 2nd half more than the 1st. Dude only had the one turnover this time, so that was an improvement. My only concern here is again, for whatever reason, Manu and Tony can't seem to play well simultaneously. The better one plays, the worse the other plays, and it's been like this two straight games now. I'd have given Tony a "B".

Bruce Bowen
Bowen wasn't having too good of a game on either end of the court, but I liked that he kept at it. He wasn't backing down even though he wasn't having near the defensive game he had in Game 2. The Nuggets obviously had the game plan that they'd be physical with Bowen and push him coming off screens and when they had the ball. The refs weren't calling the fouls, so it negated a lot of his defense. But instead of giving up or complaining too much, he kept fighting.
Grade: C-

I think C- might be a bit too generous here. I agree, it's almost cruel asking him to constantly shuttle back and forth between the 2nd and 3rd highest scorers in the league, but IMO, he struggled mightily tonight and the ol' +/- numbers weren't very kind to him... I'd go with a "D".


Francisco Elson
Hey, not bad by the big Dutchman. Didn't play overly well, but at least didn't hurt the Spurs too much. In this matchup, that's about the most you can ask. Decent production, hit his first two shots of the series and stayed within himself. He's a placeholder for Horry and Oberto at this point, but at least today he held his place and didn't hurt the Spurs in his minutes.
Grade: B

Well, if you want to get technical about it, he hurt us a lot more in Game 3 (-7) than Game 2 (+1) in about the same number of minutes. He hit a couple of pretty jumpers today, but I don't think he had much of an interior presence defensively. "C-."

Michael Finley
Finley is having a monster playoff run so far. Not only is he knocking down shots, he's playing the best defense of his life. Without his overall confidence out there, the Spurs would be in trouble. He's rebounding now after getting none in Game 1 and is playing about as smart as I've ever seen him play. Can't really complain about anything he's doing out there.
Grade: A-

Like Duncan, I think Finley was overall a bit better in Game 2. He had a couple of painful sequences where he held the ball, and held it some more, and then some more, and then cast an ugly no-chance fadeaway. He wasn't alone by any means. Tim, Manu, Tony, even Robert all launched a few no chance prayers. I just think Robert was a bit of a ball stopper in some stretches. Either catch and shoot or catch and pass. "B+"


Brent Barry
Barry had a nice steal in his five minutes. He never really got an open look but his defense was pretty solid. This isn't the series for him, but it's good that he's not a liability in his few minutes on the court.
Grade: B

I think "Inc." would be more appropriate here. Five minutes isn't enough to do anything. I'd like to see him play more and possibly take advantage of one of Denver's crappy wing players on defense. In a perfect world Pop would've played both Fin and Bruce five minutes less and Brent ten minutes more.


Fabricio Oberto
Didn't quite have a Game 2 like performance, but I thought he was good. His post defense was very good and continues to play smart, winning basketball. He didn't have much of an impact on the stat sheet, but he was solid and contributed to the win.
Grade: B

I think you have to hold him somewhat accountable for not getting a single defensive rebound in 10 minutes. Najera, Neno and Melo all got offensive boards on his watch. "C".

Robert Horry
What can you say about this guy? He looks like the worst player in the league during the regular season and then comes out and might have been the best player on the court. His basketball IQ is so off the charts it's scary. Amazing game for Horry, with too many big plays to even begin to mention them. Hopefully he can keep this up.
Grade: A+

No arguments here, he was our best player tonight. Coulda used play like this last year against Dallas.


Jacque Vaughn
Vaughn did a better job of not shooting today. In the first two games, I thought he looked for his shot too much. This game he finished with zero field goal attempts. That's about the right amount of shots you want him taking. Defensively he wasn't great, but did a pretty good job. As long as he can come in and run the show for a few minutes while playing rugged defense, that should be enough.
Grade: B-

This was by far my favorite paragraph of your whole post. Very funny. Mainly what I like about Jacque Vaughn is when he's in there he usually just passes it to Manu and gets the fuck out of the way. When he's out there sans Manu, that's a very, very bad idea, as we discovered in the 4th quarter. Really, neither Tony nor Tim should ever be put in the position of playing "naked" (without one of the other big two) ever again because neither has had much experience with it during the year. Manu is the only one who's been asked to do it on a daily basis so he's more comfortable with it. Seeing Tim by himself was just fucking weird.


Pop
Very nicely coached game tonight by Pop. I thought the rotations were right on the money. He kept Ginobili and Horry fresh, playing them a combined 60 minutes even though they were both playing so well. Oh and perhaps Pop was right by limiting Duncan's minutes in Game 2 because at the end of this game, Duncan looked drained after playing 40 minutes. Giving Parker more time on AI seemed to help keep AI from going totally off. He also ran much more 4-Down in the fourth quarter instead of motion, which was something I've been asking for. Running everything through Duncan on the block or isolating Parker and Ginobili is the way to go against Denver because it lessens the defensive impact of Camby. Great adjustments on both ends of the court.
Grade: A

I'm afraid I can't quite go that high for Pop. He should have played Brent more (as a team we haven't had a minus sequence this series with Barry out there) and Bowen less when he was struggling out there. I also think he let Tony get a bit too carried away shooting the ball and could have pulled those reins a bit. As a team we probably took 15 ugly, no chance out of rhythm shots between Tim-Horry-Manu-Tony-Finley and that's at least 8 too many. He might have stressed ball movement more. Defensively I think we could have mixed it up better, thrown up the occasional double on Melo, and packed the lane better. Gave up too many dunks and easy put backs. I'd go with a "B" for Pop.

[T Park]

He should have played Brent more (as a team we haven't had a minus sequence this series with Barry out there) and Bowen less when he was struggling out there

Subtract defense.


Intelligent.


I also think he let Tony get a bit too carried away shooting the ball and could have pulled those reins a bit.

Shocking :lol

[aaronstampler]

Subtract defense.


Intelligent.



Shocking :lol


Such is your nature. Ignore all the nice things I say and focus on the one thing you disagree with. I gave Tony a B, and TimVP gave him a C, but whatever.

I'm a hater and that's all I can ever be.

[aaronstampler]

Subtract defense.


Intelligent.



Shocking :lol


Bruce was a -12. Not exactly that hot defensively.

[T Park]

:lol

So now Brent Barry would've done a good job defensively and not Bowen?

Fascinating.


I gave Tony a B, and TimVP gave him a C, but whatever.

I'm a hater and that's all I can ever be.

glad you finally owned up to it.

[aaronstampler]

:lol

So now Brent Barry would've done a good job defensively and not Bowen?

Fascinating.



glad you finally owned up to it.


Brent could have bought a few minutes against a fatigued Bowen. You forget the court has two sides. Whatever Brent would have cost us on one end vs. Bruce, he could have made up for on the other end.

[timvp]

See this I don't get. His statline really wasn't all that different from Game 2. His aggressiveness going to the rim in the first half today was no different then the second half last time. I think the main difference is in Game 2 the Nuggets let him finish off some lay-ups and today they decided, "Fuck that, we're foulin' his ass." I was a bit disappointed Manu wore down in the 4th and we were lucky that Tony and Horry hit some shots late. I think it's a bit overdramatic to go from giving him a "C" in game 2 to an "A-" in Game 3 when really he didn't play that differently overall. I'd have gone maybe a "B-" at worst in Game 2, and a "B+" at best here.

I guess we are going to have to disagree. Manu's overall energy and aggressiveness was much, much better than the first two games. He sped up his decision making and was overall just letting it all hang out. That is when Manu is at his best.

I feel pretty confident in my analysis, especially looking at the +/- of the game. He finished +15, which tied Horry as the best on the Spurs. It was a big improvement from his -7 Game 1 and +0 Game 2.

If you don't see the difference in how Manu played tonight and how he played the first two games of the series, then I understand why we would disagree on his performance. If Manu plays like he does tonight, the Spurs are damn tough to beat and you can see his production in the +/-. If he's not as aggressive like in the first two games, he's more of an ordinary player and the Spurs aren't as good.

With Manu, you can usually throw the stats out the window. He's one of the rare players who can win games without making a dent in the stat sheet.

And yeah, I did subtract some for him tiring out in the fourth (along with Tim). Parker deserves props for keeping the Spurs afloat during that stretch.

[whottt]

Parker was hard to grade. For stretches he was the worst player on the court, but for other stretches he was the best player on the court. His shots in the fourth were huge and his defense was outstanding in stretches. I'll probably watch the game again and see if it should be adjusted, but for now I'll stick with the C.

:smokin


His grade is going to shoot way up once you rewatch it.

[aaronstampler]

I'm just saying the dude was plenty aggressive and going to the basket the second half of game 2. He got 15 second half points some way, didn't he?

[T Park]

I'm just saying the dude was plenty aggressive and going to the basket the second half of game 2. He got 15 second half points some way, didn't he?

No one ever denied that.

It was the first half he was unagressive in.

[whottt]

People must have been watching a different game than I...I thought this was perhaps the best defensive game of Parker's career and when he was on AI it was just about the best D I have ever seen played on AI.


I mean yeah AI got hot in stretches...

sincerely, everyone who has ever guarded him in the NBA.


Seriously, I was impressed with Parker's D tonight. I was barbecuing in the second half though and might have missed some lapses.

[aaronstampler]

timvp just said he was unaggressive both games, not 1 1/2 games.

[FromWayDowntown]

I thought Manu's aggressiveness was pivotal for the Spurs tonight. It was something that has definitely been missing in Games 1 and 2 and it really set the tone tonight.

I'm still monumentally impressed by the fact that the Spurs could be outshot at the line by 16 and doubled-up in 2nd chance points and still find a way to win that game. The defense (other than the defensive rebounding) was huge tonight. If the Nuggets hadn't been bailed out time and again with some relatively weak -- or at least inconsistent -- calls, the Spurs blow them out in Game 3.

The Spurs defensive rebounding effort MUST improve in Game 4, but I like the offensive efficiency that the Spurs showed in Game 3.

Bury them in Game 4.

[aaronstampler]

People must have been watching a different game than I...I thought this was perhaps the best defensive game of Parker's career and when he was on AI it was just about the best D I have ever seen played on AI.

Settle down, I wouldn't go that far...

I think Tony was really good defensively against Barbosa the last time we played Phx.

[T Park]

Brent could have bought a few minutes against a fatigued Bowen. You forget the court has two sides. Whatever Brent would have cost us on one end vs. Bruce, he could have made up for on the other end

:lmao

Thats the same attitude that lost the Spurs the series vs Dallas last year genius.

[T Park]

timvp just said he was unaggressive both games, not 1 1/2 games.

:rolleyes

[timvp]

I'm just saying the dude was plenty aggressive and going to the basket the second half of game 2. He got 15 second half points some way, didn't he?

And he was a -3 in the second half of Game 2. He was scoring more off of broken plays and trick sets rather than just pure aggressiveness. Just because he's scoring doesn't mean he's being aggressive.

Tonight Manu played by far his best game of the series. If you want to disagree with me, go ahead. This was Playoff Manu. I didn't recognize that Argentinean shooting guard in the first two games.

[T Park]

Settle down, I wouldn't go that far...

I think Tony was really good defensively against Barbosa the last time we played Phx

Take into account that AI is about 4 times the player Barbosa is, then you get his best defensive effort so far.

[whottt]

Settle down, I wouldn't go that far...

I think Tony was really good defensively against Barbosa the last time we played Phx.



Dude...this was Allen Freaking Iverson and Parker messed up his game tonight, big time...no one does that to AI. AI was frustrrated by Parker tonight...I've never seen AI frustrated by a single defender before.

[whottt]

Take into account that AI is about 4 times the player Barbosa is, then you get his best defensive effort so far.


Seriously...has no one seen what AI has done to us in fourth quarters throughout his career? Hell, most other teams too.


AI is the toughest player to guard in the NBA...no one makes him look mortal. Parker did.

[timvp]

People must have been watching a different game than I...I thought this was perhaps the best defensive game of Parker's career and when he was on AI it was just about the best D I have ever seen played on AI.


I mean yeah AI got hot in stretches...

sincerely, everyone who has ever guarded him in the NBA.


Seriously, I was impressed with Parker's D tonight. I was barbecuing in the second half though and might have missed some lapses.

Yeah I thought Parker's defense was pretty spectacular in stretches. He was out Bowening Bowen for most of the night. This performance could be up there with the time he held Arenas to 0-for-13 or whatever that was.

[aaronstampler]

I'm just happy that we played a "B" game and that was enough to beat a Denver team on the road when they're supposedly "so much better" than the '05 version.

Sorry, don't see it. They still have pretty much the same strengths and weaknesses, IMO. Boykins/Miller then is pretty equal to Iverson/Blake now. Yeah AI is better than Boykins, but Miller >> Blake. His size gave Tony problems defensively in '05.

Game 3 is always the toughest one to get for a heavy favorite because the underdog's fans are pumped the most and the refs get intimidated into lots of foul calls. I said it'd be over in five games before the series and I'm confident that it will.

This is the game we had to get. Now the air is let out of Denver's balloon. The seed of doubt has been planted. They've lost home court advantage, lost to us twice in a row, and deep down they know we haven't even played all that well against them. They resorted to the same thuggish shit on Manu and still lost. They'll play one last tough quarter coming out of the chute in Game 4, but if the Spurs hang in there, they'll fold their tents pretty quickly. Your best players can't lead you to the promise land when they only play one end of the floor and both Melo and AI expend no energy on defense.

[timvp]

This series isn't over. As long as AI is on the other team, they have a chance. This is the same AI who owned the Lakers in 2001 in Game 1 of the Finals ... and that Lakers team was probably a top 5 team of all-time.

Plus, Carmelo is clutch and a bigtime scorer.

If AI and Melo get hot, they can win any game.

[FromWayDowntown]

This series isn't over. As long as AI is on the other team, they have a chance. This is the same AI who owned the Lakers in 2001 in Game 1 of the Finals ... and that Lakers team was probably a top 5 team of all-time.

Plus, Carmelo is clutch and a bigtime scorer.

If AI and Melo get hot, they can win any game.

Undoubtedly. But the pressure on Denver in Game 4 is going to be immense.

[aaronstampler]

:lmao

Thats the same attitude that lost the Spurs the series vs Dallas last year genius.


If you want to base everything on how people played in the Dallas series, then Horry should never play TPark. He was 4 of 16 that series, Brent was 12 of 24.

[aaronstampler]

This series isn't over. As long as AI is on the other team, they have a chance. This is the same AI who owned the Lakers in 2001 in Game 1 of the Finals ... and that Lakers team was probably a top 5 team of all-time.

Plus, Carmelo is clutch and a bigtime scorer.

If AI and Melo get hot, they can win any game.


This AI has lost a couple of steps compared to the '01 version. And that one played on a much better defensive team. Hell, even he was a better defensive player back then. Iverson pretty much quit playing defense four years ago.

And Melo is incredibly overrated. All he does is score. He is terrible defensively, can't pass, and doesn't make his teammates better. The guy is a total loser.

[SPARKY]

Tony Parker
Parker is having an odd playoff series. I thought he played poorly for large stretches tonight, but he'd respond with some important possessions. He started off the fourth quarter missing his first three shots, but responded with three huge baskets down the stretch. He also deserves props for playing very good defense on Iverson -- even though AI was hitting tough shots. When Duncan and Manu wore down in the fourth, Parker keeping his energy level up was also key. But really, Parker hasn't played as well as he could so far. He can play a lot better ... which I guess is a good sign for the Spurs. Through it all, he led the Spurs in scoring, had only one turnover and is the Spurs' leading scorer on the series.
Grade: C

I was feeling more like a B/B- for TP tonight. He definitely played better than in the first two games.

[kris]

Aaron Stampler, do you realize all you do is find stuff do disagree about?

Worst part about it is you're completely missing the boat.

And Whott - Tony did play good D, but saying AI only got hot in stretches isn't really a big statement. He usually doesn't stay hot the whole game.

[kris]

Pop
Very nicely coached game tonight by Pop. I thought the rotations were right on the money. He kept Ginobili and Horry fresh, playing them a combined 60 minutes even though they were both playing so well. Oh and perhaps Pop was right by limiting Duncan's minutes in Game 2 because at the end of this game, Duncan looked drained after playing 40 minutes. Giving Parker more time on AI seemed to help keep AI from going totally off. He also ran much more 4-Down in the fourth quarter instead of motion, which was something I've been asking for. Running everything through Duncan on the block or isolating Parker and Ginobili is the way to go against Denver because it lessens the defensive impact of Camby. Great adjustments on both ends of the court.
Grade: A

Did you remember to factor in Duncan was in Denver this game? 40 in SA and 40 in Denver are not the same.

Pop gets a B just because I don't like him.

[J.T.]

Tim looked tired after 40 minutes but they needed his defense. Once Denver looked like they were going to threaten the lead, Pop yanked his ass off the bench. Props to the Spurs for also shooting 93% on freethrows, even if Manu took damn near all of them.

[J.T.]

Did you remember to factor in Duncan was in Denver this game? 40 in SA and 40 in Denver are not the same.

Pop gets a B just because I don't like him.

Duncan said in the press conference that after the first few minutes, the altitude really didn't bother him. Take that for whatever you think it's worth, but 40 minutes is a long time when he's been averaging 30 all season. They needed his defense, that's why he played more minutes and it ended up being a smart move. If they can protect their leads more in Game 4, Duncan can get more benchtime.

[Kevin Blackistone]

Subtract defense.


Intelligent.



Shocking :lol

I don't think that was a fair statement. His (aaronstampler) analysis was pretty fair IMO, and although I disagree that Manu looked as aggressive in game 2 as 3 I think his analysis was credible without any "hater" elements to it.

I feel TP scored a B at least due to his defense making Iverson work hard as hell for everything, and I felt Elson's score should have been a C at best due to his defensive shortcomings, i.e. losing his man under the basket for a couple of easy dunks. A few nice rebounds keep Elson from the D range.

MVP's of the series thus far - Finley and Horry. Without those two taking up the slack this series might be 2-1 Denver or 3-0 Denver.

[WalterBenitez]

Parker was hard to grade. For stretches he was the worst player on the court, but for other stretches he was the best player on the court. His shots in the fourth were huge and his defense was outstanding in stretches. I'll probably watch the game again and see if it should be adjusted, but for now I'll stick with the C. :smokin

I do agree, Tony made mistakes or lost the tempo in some plays, but at the next he decided well, many ups and lows; at the end he was the top scorer, fast enough to be caught and real weapon.

I think that's Tony's characteristic he's in that way ... enjoyable when he's on.

Besides Tony, those old boys we have played well those 3s raining where great!, Tim in particular made those FT that usually (you have to accept that) miss.

For me was a good game, I always trend to think that Nuggets lots their head as Karl lost his hair and starts to make hard fouls, not cutting the play, I don't know, but I think that 4-1 is possible
:king

[Obstructed_View]

I felt Elson's score should have been a C at best due to his defensive shortcomings, i.e. losing his man under the basket for a couple of easy dunks. A few nice rebounds keep Elson from the D range.
Considering that he only lost his man once for one dunk (the other time he lost Camby they flubbed the lob), got called for a BS illegal pick for his one turnover and got 4 points, 3 boards, a GREAT block on AI and drew a charge in only 12 minutes, I'm not sure what you expect him to do to earn a B.

[Shelly]

Pop even had that 'sporty' look going on last night.

[thousandth]

Elson: C. Good grade for him, but still making the bone-headed fouls and not playing smart ball. Oh well, he didn't -hurt- us tonight at least.

Elson had cold heart last night.
I like more Horry and Oberto in this series.

[Rick Von Braun]

I have issues with a few of these.


Tim Duncan
Duncan didn't have his greatest game of all-time, but I thought he gave a very good effort. He was dead tired in the fourth quarter and instead of slowing down, he kept doing as much as he could. His determination and will to win were off the charts tonight. Again, didn't play overly great, but I'll take that type of effort every night.
Grade: B+

I'd give Tim a B-, at best. I think he had a poor shooting night, left a lot of shots short and his good work on the offensive boards inflates his rebounding number when really he was pretty weak on the defensive glass, which is more important. I think overall he was more of a defensive force in Game 2, and he had 0 turnovers that night as opposed to three today.


Manu Ginobili
This is the Manu I've been waiting for. He didn't have a fantastic night shooting the basketball, but Manu was Manu tonight. When he's attacking the basket, getting to the free throw line and creating for himself and others, the Spurs are damn hard to beat. If he can bottle up what he did tonight, the Spurs are going to be alright. He had a couple of defensive lapses and forced a few passes, but he more than made up for it with his overall aggressiveness. It was night and day from the first two games to this series.
Grade: A-

See this I don't get. His statline really wasn't all that different from Game 2. His aggressiveness going to the rim in the first half today was no different then the second half last time. I think the main difference is in Game 2 the Nuggets let him finish off some lay-ups and today they decided, "Fuck that, we're foulin' his ass." I was a bit disappointed Manu wore down in the 4th and we were lucky that Tony and Horry hit some shots late. I think it's a bit overdramatic to go from giving him a "C" in game 2 to an "A-" in Game 3 when really he didn't play that differently overall. I'd have gone maybe a "B-" at worst in Game 2, and a "B+" at best here.


Tony Parker
Parker is having an odd playoff series. I thought he played poorly for large stretches tonight, but he'd respond with some important possessions. He started off the fourth quarter missing his first three shots, but responded with three huge baskets down the stretch. He also deserves props for playing very good defense on Iverson -- even though AI was hitting tough shots. When Duncan and Manu wore down in the fourth, Parker keeping his energy level up was also key. But really, Parker hasn't played as well as he could so far. He can play a lot better ... which I guess is a good sign for the Spurs. Through it all, he led the Spurs in scoring, had only one turnover and is the Spurs' leading scorer on the series.
Grade: C

This, I think, was harsh. Yeah, he took maybe five or six shots I wish he hadn't, but besides that I think Tony played his best game of the series. He really stepped up for us big time in the 4th and I'm one of those people that weighs the 2nd half more than the 1st. Dude only had the one turnover this time, so that was an improvement. My only concern here is again, for whatever reason, Manu and Tony can't seem to play well simultaneously. The better one plays, the worse the other plays, and it's been like this two straight games now. I'd have given Tony a "B".

Bruce Bowen
Bowen wasn't having too good of a game on either end of the court, but I liked that he kept at it. He wasn't backing down even though he wasn't having near the defensive game he had in Game 2. The Nuggets obviously had the game plan that they'd be physical with Bowen and push him coming off screens and when they had the ball. The refs weren't calling the fouls, so it negated a lot of his defense. But instead of giving up or complaining too much, he kept fighting.
Grade: C-

I think C- might be a bit too generous here. I agree, it's almost cruel asking him to constantly shuttle back and forth between the 2nd and 3rd highest scorers in the league, but IMO, he struggled mightily tonight and the ol' +/- numbers weren't very kind to him... I'd go with a "D".


Francisco Elson
Hey, not bad by the big Dutchman. Didn't play overly well, but at least didn't hurt the Spurs too much. In this matchup, that's about the most you can ask. Decent production, hit his first two shots of the series and stayed within himself. He's a placeholder for Horry and Oberto at this point, but at least today he held his place and didn't hurt the Spurs in his minutes.
Grade: B

Well, if you want to get technical about it, he hurt us a lot more in Game 3 (-7) than Game 2 (+1) in about the same number of minutes. He hit a couple of pretty jumpers today, but I don't think he had much of an interior presence defensively. "C-."

Michael Finley
Finley is having a monster playoff run so far. Not only is he knocking down shots, he's playing the best defense of his life. Without his overall confidence out there, the Spurs would be in trouble. He's rebounding now after getting none in Game 1 and is playing about as smart as I've ever seen him play. Can't really complain about anything he's doing out there.
Grade: A-

Like Duncan, I think Finley was overall a bit better in Game 2. He had a couple of painful sequences where he held the ball, and held it some more, and then some more, and then cast an ugly no-chance fadeaway. He wasn't alone by any means. Tim, Manu, Tony, even Robert all launched a few no chance prayers. I just think Robert was a bit of a ball stopper in some stretches. Either catch and shoot or catch and pass. "B+"


Brent Barry
Barry had a nice steal in his five minutes. He never really got an open look but his defense was pretty solid. This isn't the series for him, but it's good that he's not a liability in his few minutes on the court.
Grade: B

I think "Inc." would be more appropriate here. Five minutes isn't enough to do anything. I'd like to see him play more and possibly take advantage of one of Denver's crappy wing players on defense. In a perfect world Pop would've played both Fin and Bruce five minutes less and Brent ten minutes more.


Fabricio Oberto
Didn't quite have a Game 2 like performance, but I thought he was good. His post defense was very good and continues to play smart, winning basketball. He didn't have much of an impact on the stat sheet, but he was solid and contributed to the win.
Grade: B

I think you have to hold him somewhat accountable for not getting a single defensive rebound in 10 minutes. Najera, Neno and Melo all got offensive boards on his watch. "C".

Robert Horry
What can you say about this guy? He looks like the worst player in the league during the regular season and then comes out and might have been the best player on the court. His basketball IQ is so off the charts it's scary. Amazing game for Horry, with too many big plays to even begin to mention them. Hopefully he can keep this up.
Grade: A+

No arguments here, he was our best player tonight. Coulda used play like this last year against Dallas.


Jacque Vaughn
Vaughn did a better job of not shooting today. In the first two games, I thought he looked for his shot too much. This game he finished with zero field goal attempts. That's about the right amount of shots you want him taking. Defensively he wasn't great, but did a pretty good job. As long as he can come in and run the show for a few minutes while playing rugged defense, that should be enough.
Grade: B-

This was by far my favorite paragraph of your whole post. Very funny. Mainly what I like about Jacque Vaughn is when he's in there he usually just passes it to Manu and gets the fuck out of the way. When he's out there sans Manu, that's a very, very bad idea, as we discovered in the 4th quarter. Really, neither Tony nor Tim should ever be put in the position of playing "naked" (without one of the other big two) ever again because neither has had much experience with it during the year. Manu is the only one who's been asked to do it on a daily basis so he's more comfortable with it. Seeing Tim by himself was just fucking weird.


Pop
Very nicely coached game tonight by Pop. I thought the rotations were right on the money. He kept Ginobili and Horry fresh, playing them a combined 60 minutes even though they were both playing so well. Oh and perhaps Pop was right by limiting Duncan's minutes in Game 2 because at the end of this game, Duncan looked drained after playing 40 minutes. Giving Parker more time on AI seemed to help keep AI from going totally off. He also ran much more 4-Down in the fourth quarter instead of motion, which was something I've been asking for. Running everything through Duncan on the block or isolating Parker and Ginobili is the way to go against Denver because it lessens the defensive impact of Camby. Great adjustments on both ends of the court.
Grade: A

I'm afraid I can't quite go that high for Pop. He should have played Brent more (as a team we haven't had a minus sequence this series with Barry out there) and Bowen less when he was struggling out there. I also think he let Tony get a bit too carried away shooting the ball and could have pulled those reins a bit. As a team we probably took 15 ugly, no chance out of rhythm shots between Tim-Horry-Manu-Tony-Finley and that's at least 8 too many. He might have stressed ball movement more. Defensively I think we could have mixed it up better, thrown up the occasional double on Melo, and packed the lane better. Gave up too many dunks and easy put backs. I'd go with a "B" for Pop.


Good commentary by both timvp and aaron. I think I am leaning towards aaronstampler grades and opinions.

[florige]

Tim Duncan
Duncan didn't have his greatest game of all-time, but I thought he gave a very good effort. He was dead tired in the fourth quarter and instead of slowing down, he kept doing as much as he could. His determination and will to win were off the charts tonight. Again, didn't play overly great, but I'll take that type of effort every night.
Grade: B+


Manu Ginobili
This is the Manu I've been waiting for. He didn't have a fantastic night shooting the basketball, but Manu was Manu tonight. When he's attacking the basket, getting to the free throw line and creating for himself and others, the Spurs are damn hard to beat. If he can bottle up what he did tonight, the Spurs are going to be alright. He had a couple of defensive lapses and forced a few passes, but he more than made up for it with his overall aggressiveness. It was night and day from the first two games to this series.
Grade: A-


Tony Parker
Parker is having an odd playoff series. I thought he played poorly for large stretches tonight, but he'd respond with some important possessions. He started off the fourth quarter missing his first three shots, but responded with three huge baskets down the stretch. He also deserves props for playing very good defense on Iverson -- even though AI was hitting tough shots. When Duncan and Manu wore down in the fourth, Parker keeping his energy level up was also key. But really, Parker hasn't played as well as he could so far. He can play a lot better ... which I guess is a good sign for the Spurs. Through it all, he led the Spurs in scoring, had only one turnover and is the Spurs' leading scorer on the series.
Grade: C


Bruce Bowen
Bowen wasn't having too good of a game on either end of the court, but I liked that he kept at it. He wasn't backing down even though he wasn't having near the defensive game he had in Game 2. The Nuggets obviously had the game plan that they'd be physical with Bowen and push him coming off screens and when they had the ball. The refs weren't calling the fouls, so it negated a lot of his defense. But instead of giving up or complaining too much, he kept fighting.
Grade: C-


Francisco Elson
Hey, not bad by the big Dutchman. Didn't play overly well, but at least didn't hurt the Spurs too much. In this matchup, that's about the most you can ask. Decent production, hit his first two shots of the series and stayed within himself. He's a placeholder for Horry and Oberto at this point, but at least today he held his place and didn't hurt the Spurs in his minutes.
Grade: B


Michael Finley
Finley is having a monster playoff run so far. Not only is he knocking down shots, he's playing the best defense of his life. Without his overall confidence out there, the Spurs would be in trouble. He's rebounding now after getting none in Game 1 and is playing about as smart as I've ever seen him play. Can't really complain about anything he's doing out there.
Grade: A-


Brent Barry
Barry had a nice steal in his five minutes. He never really got an open look but his defense was pretty solid. This isn't the series for him, but it's good that he's not a liability in his few minutes on the court.
Grade: B


Fabricio Oberto
Didn't quite have a Game 2 like performance, but I thought he was good. His post defense was very good and continues to play smart, winning basketball. He didn't have much of an impact on the stat sheet, but he was solid and contributed to the win.
Grade: B


Robert Horry
What can you say about this guy? He looks like the worst player in the league during the regular season and then comes out and might have been the best player on the court. His basketball IQ is so off the charts it's scary. Amazing game for Horry, with too many big plays to even begin to mention them. Hopefully he can keep this up.
Grade: A+


Jacque Vaughn
Vaughn did a better job of not shooting today. In the first two games, I thought he looked for his shot too much. This game he finished with zero field goal attempts. That's about the right amount of shots you want him taking. Defensively he wasn't great, but did a pretty good job. As long as he can come in and run the show for a few minutes while playing rugged defense, that should be enough.
Grade: B-


Pop
Very nicely coached game tonight by Pop. I thought the rotations were right on the money. He kept Ginobili and Horry fresh, playing them a combined 60 minutes even though they were both playing so well. Oh and perhaps Pop was right by limiting Duncan's minutes in Game 2 because at the end of this game, Duncan looked drained after playing 40 minutes. Giving Parker more time on AI seemed to help keep AI from going totally off. He also ran much more 4-Down in the fourth quarter instead of motion, which was something I've been asking for. Running everything through Duncan on the block or isolating Parker and Ginobili is the way to go against Denver because it lessens the defensive impact of Camby. Great adjustments on both ends of the court.
Grade: A




MAN!! Somebody give this guy (or Gal) a job a the San Antonio newspaper! Not sure what you guys newspaper is. :spin

[DarrinS]

Tim Duncan -- 5 blocks. Bump his grade up to A-.



Our old-timers are kicking ass. Mad props to Fin dawg and Horry.

[Cry Havoc]

Guys, when you respond you don't have to quote Timvp. It takes an obscene amount of space up on the page.

[wildbill2u]

I think the individual grades are open to questions because people grade on different scales and look for different things.

But what about the team grade. This is a team sport. I give them a B+/A-. The team didn't play a great game but they played within their team concept and strategy in a road game at high altitude. A very good effort that produced a win.

[2centsworth]

My question is Tony suppossed to shoot as much as he does?

[T Park]

Hes encouraged to yes when hes open.

hes also shown that when he scores more, this team wins.

As proven last night.

[timvp]

My question is Tony suppossed to shoot as much as he does?

When he's being guarded by Carmelo Anthony, it doesn't make much sense for him to pass the ball.

[2centsworth]

Then I think Tony played the game Pop wanted him to play, so he can't be graded that low.

[gilmor]

Tony will get better as years go on.. While Tim and Manu have already reached their peak.. Tony's A game will be so much bigger in the future.. Believe it..

[Cry Havoc]

I think Parker is evolving into a nice combo shoot-pass guard. He still looks for the shot first, but his passing is getting a little better. He's so good on the first-step dribble that he really hasn't felt the need to develop his game until now, but it's getting there.

The reason I give Parker a "B": If he plays D on Iverson like he did in Game 3, we win this series in 5, no questions asked.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

When he's being guarded by Carmelo Anthony, it doesn't make much sense for him to pass the ball.
Tim basically said in the postgame, that he was surprised at that stupid coaching move....

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I think Parker is evolving into a nice combo shoot-pass guard. He still looks for the shot first, but his passing is getting a little better. He's so good on the first-step dribble that he really hasn't felt the need to develop his game until now, but it's getting there.

The reason I give Parker a "B": If he plays D on Iverson like he did in Game 3, we win this series in 5, no questions asked.
I agree his D was much improved from that horrible game 1 defense (where both he and Timmy were just playing follow the leader to the basket :lol) . He was terrible there.

He finally adjusted, I noticed and stayed on him.

[aaronstampler]

Hes encouraged to yes when hes open.

hes also shown that when he scores more, this team wins.

As proven last night.


So when he scores 19 it = a 6 point loss but when he scores 21 it = a 6 point win?

Funny math there, TPark.


I don't think scoring 21 points on 23 shots is something to celebrate or be proud of. We're not winning these games because Tony's improved any offensively between the 1st game and now...


It's the defense, stupid. He's playing better defense.

[timvp]

The Spurs improved to 9-0 all-time in the playoffs when Manu Ginobili attempts at least ten free throws and dishes out at least five assists. As I said, when Manu is playing that aggressive yet smart style of basketball, the Spurs are pretty damn hard to beat.

The Spurs also improved to 13-1 all-time in the playoffs when Tony Parker makes at least ten field goals. The Spurs are simply tough to beat when Parker is in attack mode and is shooting a lot.

Game 3 was almost a perfect illustration of the Spurs All-Star guards at their best in terms of what it takes for the Spurs to win playoff games.

[timvp]

And the hardcore Spurs fan might like to know that the Spurs are now 15-1 all-time in the playoffs when Tim Duncan has between 10 and 25 points, at least 5 assists and at least 3 blocks.

The only time the Spurs have ever lost a playoff game in that circumstance?

Game 1 versus the Denver Nuggets in 2007.

:smokin

[aaronstampler]

The Spurs improved to 9-0 all-time in the playoffs when Manu Ginobili attempts at least ten free throws and dishes out at least five assists. As I said, when Manu is playing that aggressive yet smart style of basketball, the Spurs are pretty damn hard to beat.

The Spurs also improved to 13-1 all-time in the playoffs when Tony Parker makes at least ten field goals. The Spurs are simply tough to beat when Parker is in attack mode and is shooting a lot.

Game 3 was almost a perfect illustration of the Spurs All-Star guards at their best in terms of what it takes for the Spurs to win playoff games.


Except the Manu part makes sense because free throws and assists are good things. Your Tony part should come with an *.


*He can make as many as he wants, as long as he shoots over 50%.


Here's an eye-opener for you to work your noodle around.

Since '02-03

Tony in playoff games where he misses at least 10 shots more than he makes:

12-14

'03: 3-5
'04: 1-3
'05: 4-3
'06: 3-2
'07: 1-1
Total: 12-14 (.462 Win %)


Tony in playoff games where he misses less than 10 shots more than he makes:

35-12

'03: 13-3
'04: 5-1
'05: 12-4
'06: 4-4
'07: 1-0
Total: 35-12 (.745 Win %)


I might be stepping on a huge limb here, LJ, but I'm going to theorize that perhaps when Tony isn't having himself a good shooting game, it might be a good idea to quit jacking them up in a Quixotic quest to get back to 50%. When Tony's missing A LOT of shots, we're a below .500 playoff team. I would suggest that on the 46% of the time we've managed to win such games, that perhaps you should give more credit to Tony's teammates for succeeding in spite of him than praising Tony's limitless courage to keep shooting no matter how groany the home crowd gets (or how cheery if we're on the road) or how each of his misses makes Manu go a little bit balder.

[aaronstampler]

So please dude, spare me your bogus stat where the Spurs are 12-4 in playoff games where Tony shoots 20+ times.

You deftly forget to mention that in 10 of those 16, he shot 50% or better. Who's going to complain about a guy who's shooting well?

In the six games he shot below 50%, we're 4-2. In the 10 he shot above 50%, we're 8-2. Oooooh. Amazing.

And if you really want some wizardry, check out the box scores for the stats of the opposing point guard. Only once in those six below 50% games did Tony allow his counterpart to shoot 50%.

Guess when it was?

Game 1 vs. Denver. Iverson was 11-22. (Or if you prefer, Blake was 3-6).

When Tony shot 10 of 23 in Game 3, it was offset by his sterling defensive work and AI shot an even worse 7 of 20.

Like I said, It's the defense, stupid.

It's seldom for Tony to shoot 20 times unless he's having a good night, because usually either his conscience or Pop's patience causes him to knock that shit off after attempt 18 or so. I am a bit alarmed that he's had two 20+ attempt, below 50% games out of 3 so far in round 1. That to me suggests he is more shot happy than ever, and that is NOT a good thing, unless he's makin' em.

[Slippy]

Tony, a few times did force shots but over-all his shot selection was good. Hard to knock shots that come from the offense been run or when there's a mis-match.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs are always better when Parker penetrates. Always. Unfortunately he's going against two good shot blockers and his teammates are too busy getting back on D to go to the front of the rim when he goes into the paint, so there's nobody to pass to for an easy dunk. His percentage is therefore going to suffer and his turnovers are going to be higher. It's a minor matchup problem that won't happen against anyone else in the playoffs.

[aaronstampler]

Check out 82games.com lately?

After three games Bowen's net +/- is -11.6, Duncan's is -10.6, and Tony's is -9.7.

I guess that means they're all playing terrible, huh? :lol :toast

[timvp]

Except the Manu part makes sense because free throws and assists are good things. Your Tony part should come with an *.


*He can make as many as he wants, as long as he shoots over 50%.


Here's an eye-opener for you to work your noodle around.

Since '02-03

Tony in playoff games where he misses at least 10 shots more than he makes:

12-14

'03: 3-5
'04: 1-3
'05: 4-3
'06: 3-2
'07: 1-1
Total: 12-14 (.462 Win %)


Tony in playoff games where he misses less than 10 shots more than he makes:

35-12

'03: 13-3
'04: 5-1
'05: 12-4
'06: 4-4
'07: 1-0
Total: 35-12 (.745 Win %)


I might be stepping on a huge limb here, LJ, but I'm going to theorize that perhaps when Tony isn't having himself a good shooting game, it might be a good idea to quit jacking them up in a Quixotic quest to get back to 50%. When Tony's missing A LOT of shots, we're a below .500 playoff team. I would suggest that on the 46% of the time we've managed to win such games, that perhaps you should give more credit to Tony's teammates for succeeding in spite of him than praising Tony's limitless courage to keep shooting no matter how groany the home crowd gets (or how cheery if we're on the road) or how each of his misses makes Manu go a little bit balder.

:lmao

Your Manu loving azz just proved that the Spurs go as Parker's offense goes. Thanks for proving the point I've been trying to nail into your head for the last month.

You can try to twist the stats any way you want, but the fact remains that when Parker is scoring, that is the best indicator of the Spurs playing playoff winning basketball. You always whine that Parker should just keep passing it more to your man Manu, when in fact Parker being an offense first player wins the Spurs playoff games.

If you want to draw up a game plan that has had the most success in garnering Spurs playoff wins, you'd want Parker being the first option offensively, Manu being aggressive by getting to the line and creating for others, and Duncan blocking shots, racking up assists and scoring between 15-25 points.

That gameplan has the Spurs winning 95% of the time since 2003.

[aaronstampler]

So what exactly are we supposed to do when Tony isn't making his shots? Stick our thumbs up our asses and go, "Oh well, maybe he'll do better the next game.."?

The whole point, which you've clearly missed (this is getting less and less surprising for me, btw) is if Tony's struggling early, then passing might be a good idea instead of trying to shoot himself out of a slump.

[Solid D]

Not as of today, 3 games.

http://www.82games.com/0607/playoffs/0607SAS1.HTM

San Antonio Spurs
2006-2007 NBA PLAYOFFS

Individual Player Floor Time statistics
Player Min....+/- Off. Def Net48 W L Win%
Oberto 40% +16 100.8 87.5 +13.3 3 0 100
Horry 48% +15 99.0 88.7 +10.4 2 1 66.7
Ginobili 62% +11 99.1 93.3 +5.8 2 1 66.7
Barry 15% +11 99.9 76.5 +23.4 3 0 100
Finley 65% +6 96.3 93.3 +3.0 2 1 66.7
Parker 79% +4 97.3 95.6 +1.7 2 1 66.7
Vaughn 21% +2 82.1 79.1 +3.0 1 1 50.0
Duncan 78% +2 93.7 92.8 +0.8 1 2 33.3
Bonner 1% -4 35.3 106.0 -70.7 0 1 0.0
Bowen 60% -6 86.5 89.8 -3.3 1 1 50.0
Elson 24% -17 73.7 97.0 -23.2 1 2 33.3

[td4mvp21]

So what exactly are we supposed to do when Tony isn't making his shots? Stick our thumbs up our asses and go, "Oh well, maybe he'll do better the next game.."?

The whole point, which you've clearly missed (this is getting less and less surprising for me, btw) is if Tony's struggling early, then passing might be a good idea instead of trying to shoot himself out of a slump.

You go with 4-down and make Tim the first option. Then, Ginobili. Parker will always be the Spurs first option; it took me forever to get it through my stubborn head why. He is aggressive and is able to get off to fast starts; that is why he gets the most shots in the first quarter. The Spurs feed off of his energy. Also, like Timvp said, when Parker scores we almost always win. Now, I don't want him shooting 25+ times, that's when it hurts, but most of the time Parker is very efficient and will give you 25-30 points on less than 20 shots along with 5-7 assists and several rebounds. He's a very good player and you should stop hating on him.

[gilmor]

Aaron doesn't get it..

In about 5 years.. Tony Parker will prob be the best player in the Spurs team and Aaron won't be supporting Spurs anymore cos Manu will retire

[timvp]

So what exactly are we supposed to do when Tony isn't making his shots? Stick our thumbs up our asses and go, "Oh well, maybe he'll do better the next game.."?

The whole point, which you've clearly missed (this is getting less and less surprising for me, btw) is if Tony's struggling early, then passing might be a good idea instead of trying to shoot himself out of a slump.

Yeah, because the Spurs are 2-6 lifetime in the playoffs when Parker scores less than ten points and has more than three assists. Great gameplan. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

I'm sick of replying to your 'Manu is God, Tony is Evil' takes. Get back to me after the playoffs and perhaps I will read another of your posts at that time.

[aaronstampler]

Three assists? Is that the standard we're setting now? My goodness.

[aaronstampler]

And I don't recall saying anywhere that I want Tony to score less than 10 points. Continue to throw shit at the wall though.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

3 games gone by and Duncan is due for a monster A level game



35+pts 15+rbs type Duncan dominance