How Come?

[xrayzebra]

How come no one wants to talk about the Bush veto and
the will of the American people.

Come on all you "We surrender" people. Hiding behind the
skirt of Ms. Pelosi? Or out in the dessert on the real
estate guys land. :elephant :elephant :elephant

[ChumpDumper]

How come no one wants to talk about the Bush veto and the will of the American people.Ok, Bush's veto goes against the will of the American people.

Thanks for bringing it up.

[Nbadan]

Don't forget 'he voted to cut funds for troops in harms way'.

:hat

[xrayzebra]

Well see all the same old crowd are doing the same old thing.
Telling the same old lies.

We will see if it is the will of the people when they attempt to
override the veto. And who is cutting off funds when they try
to shove it down Bush throat. As one good dimm-o-crap said.

[ChumpDumper]

Why would anyone think a veto or a failure to override a veto demonstrates the will of the people?

[ChumpDumper]

17-18 Apr 07

32. Do you approve or disapprove of Congress setting a deadline for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq?

Approve 54%
Disapprove 42%
(Don’t know) 3%

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/041907_poll.pdf

The will of the people may not be what you think it is, x.

[Nbadan]

I get it, Dubya's will is the will of the American people - duh!

[xrayzebra]

I have to laugh at the dimm-o-crap supporters. Like you know
global warming people. You disagree with them, you are
automatically wrong and they "of course" know they are
right in all aspects.

They are what they are: dimm-o-CRAPS. So full of themselves.

[xrayzebra]

17-18 Apr 07

32. Do you approve or disapprove of Congress setting a deadline for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq?

Approve 54%
Disapprove 42%
(Don’t know) 3%

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/041907_poll.pdf

The will of the people may not be what you think it is, x.

Is that why they had to put 24 billion in pork in the bill
to show the will of the people.

[ChumpDumper]

Why did you need to change the subject to pork all the sudden?

[Phenomanul]

17-18 Apr 07

32. Do you approve or disapprove of Congress setting a deadline for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq?

Approve 54%
Disapprove 42%
(Don’t know) 3%

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/041907_poll.pdf

The will of the people may not be what you think it is, x.


C'mon CD even you know that most polls are biased. People voting 'against something' are most likely to vote to have that sentiment heard than people voting 'in favor of something'. Studies nowadays have to be conducted and constructed in highly creative ways in order to remove subjectivities.

[ChumpDumper]

That's why I posted a fox poll.

[George Gervin's Afro]

How come no one wants to talk about the Bush veto and
the will of the American people.

Come on all you "We surrender" people. Hiding behind the
skirt of Ms. Pelosi? Or out in the dessert on the real
estate guys land. :elephant :elephant :elephant


ray please try and comprehend this concept again. we have already won the war. I distinctly rememebr a flight suit photo op with a mission accomplished banner behind a chickenhawk. we are refereeing a civil war..got it? you may find it acceptable to continually put or boys in harms way to prove a point but some of us actually want to allow the iraqis to sink or swim. at what point do we leave? so this notion of surrendering? to who? who are we giving up against? it's not al-qaeda? it's not saddam's army? so who are we waving to white flag to? OH wait.. your spoutring a GOP talking point..oh never mind ray you aure are funny for a senile old bastard :lol

[RandomGuy]

Well see all the same old crowd are doing the same old thing.
Telling the same old lies.

We will see if it is the will of the people when they attempt to
override the veto. And who is cutting off funds when they try
to shove it down Bush throat. As one good dimm-o-crap said.

(shrugs)

There is no doubt the Dems are playing this up, but most Americans HAVE come to the conclusion that the war has been very poorly run and that Bush is unlikely to pull this off successfully.

How long should we wait for "victory around the corner"?

Personally, I think what they are doing now has the best chance yet of stabilizing the country, but that it is too little, too late.

Ultimately it MUST fall to the Iraqis themselves, so why wait longer to do the inevitable?

"Just one more chance" may cut it when you are being asked by a relative for a loan, but when we are 4 years into a 500 BILLION+ misadventure that is getting our troops killed, how much patience SHOULD we have?

[George Gervin's Afro]

For 4 years now we have heard things are getting better. Before the surge we were all told that things were better in Iraq than the big bad MSM was reporting. Well seems as thought MSM was right and all of the apologists were rong. So now those same apologists are claiming to be right this time.. how many chances do you 'dead enders' get ray/yoni/whott/snake to br wrong?

[Nbadan]

(shrugs)

There is no doubt the Dems are playing this up, but most Americans HAVE come to the conclusion that the war has been very poorly run and that Bush is unlikely to pull this off successfully.

How long should we wait for "victory around the corner"?

Personally, I think what they are doing now has the best chance yet of stabilizing the country, but that it is too little, too late.

The Dems don't have the votes to over-ride a Bush veto on any withdrawal dates stipulation on any bill, even if it was to make Dubya king. So for now they have to settle for political victories, get the wing-nuts vote down on record supporting the continuation of the war. Politics is bullshit sometimes, but it is what it is.

[smeagol]

Great war!

Everything is going well!

No need for timelines.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Great war!

Everything is going well!

No need for timelines.

I will just shut up a blindly follow George 'Custar' Bush!!

[xrayzebra]

I will just shut up a blindly follow George 'Custar' Bush!!


Oh, how you must love to lose. I don't
and where in the world you and others
like you think this is just a civil war I
have no idea. We are fighting AQ there
and many other places.

Anyhow, the dimms and others like
you are fast learning Americans may
not like the way the war is going, but
they damn sure don't want to lose
this war and more world credibility like
we did after VN.

Obviously you and others like you have
no real thought or concern for what
would happen to the people of Iraq if
we pulled out. Do you ever wonder
what would have happened to the
United States if France had pulled out
and left us. You more than likely would
be saying: "God Save The Queen".
And sending your tax dollars to
support her and her family.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Oh, how you must love to lose. I don't
and where in the world you and others
like you think this is just a civil war I
have no idea. We are fighting AQ there
and many other places.

Anyhow, the dimms and others like
you are fast learning Americans may
not like the way the war is going, but
they damn sure don't want to lose
this war and more world credibility like
we did after VN.

Obviously you and others like you have
no real thought or concern for what
would happen to the people of Iraq if
we pulled out. Do you ever wonder
what would have happened to the
United States if France had pulled out
and left us. You more than likely would
be saying: "God Save The Queen".
And sending your tax dollars to
support her and her family.

Ray will you at least acknowledge that Custar made a bad decision that cost him and the rest of his men their lives? You make it seem as though acknowledging a historical fact is tantamount craving defeat. Come on Ray I give you more credit than that..

How many lives would you classify as acceptible to sacrifice for the people of Iraq? How many lives are you willing to sacrifice for democracy in Iraq? At any point do you say we have done all we can and it just isn't working. Or do you see this as an indefinite endeavor worth everything our country has? I want to hear you tell me that Iraq is worth tearing this country apart.

[ChumpDumper]

Obviously you and others like you have
no real thought or concern for what
would happen to the people of Iraq if
we pulled out.Pretty much what is happening now, maybe at a slightly faster rate.

[xrayzebra]

Ray will you at least acknowledge that Custar made a bad decision that cost him and the rest of his men their lives? You make it seem as though acknowledging a historical fact is tantamount craving defeat. Come on Ray I give you more credit than that..

How many lives would you classify as acceptible to sacrifice for the people of Iraq? How many lives are you willing to sacrifice for democracy in Iraq? At any point do you say we have done all we can and it just isn't working. Or do you see this as an indefinite endeavor worth everything our country has? I want to hear you tell me that Iraq is worth tearing this country apart.

I will not acknowledge any thing of the sort. Bush
told the American people the same thing that Clinton
both Bill and Hillary said, what John Kerry said and
everyone else. What I am saying is Bush did not lie
to get us into this war. The dimm-o-craps have lied
through their teeth.

You and other seemed to think we are doing all this for
the Iraq people alone. We aren't. What we are doing is
fighting our enemy on their territory, not on our soil.
We are being offensive instead of defensive like you
and others want. Our loses have been comparatively
low for any war. While we don't want any, what we
have had is small compared to what it could have been.

I might add, this country has been torn apart by a
political party that wants power back. That will go to
any extreme to regain that power. Them and their
willing accomplices the MSM have given aid and
comfort to the enemy even to the extend that AQ
uses dimm-o-crap terms in their own writings.

And you now see the dimm-o-craps cutting and running
from their position of trying to establish pull out dates.
They see the handwriting on the wall and so does the
rest of Congress by not overriding the Presidents veto.
If they thought the American people wanted defeat
they would have overridden it, be assured of that.
Just look at vote. No where close to overriding the
President.

[ChumpDumper]

The Republicans will fall in line on a pullout date as the next election nears.
What we are doing is
fighting our enemy on their territory, not on our soil.I thought all the terra-ists were outside agitators, not Iraqis.
What I am saying is Bush did not lie
to get us into this war.Someone allowed him to perpetuate a completely discredited claim (already removed once by the CIA) from a document that had been proven a forgery. If he didn't put the Niger nugget in that state of the union speech himself, who did?

[George Gervin's Afro]

You and other seemed to think we are doing all this for
the Iraq people alone. We aren't. What we are doing is
fighting our enemy on their territory, not on our soil.
We are being offensive instead of defensive like you
and others want. Our loses have been comparatively
low for any war. While we don't want any, what we
have had is small compared to what it could have been.


Ok Ray now I'm confused. You first say that the 'dimmo-craps- don't care what could happen to the Iraqi's if we pull out. Then you make the above statement that '..fighting our enemy on their territory', not on our soil'. Doesn't this mean that we have put the same Iraqi's ,you so care about, in the middle of our fight on their land? Not very nice Ray is it? We are on the offensive how? There are estimates that AL-Qaeda is getting stronger every where else in the world but you say we are fighting them there in Iraq? If you think about it Ray AL-Qaeda is probably laughing their asses off at us for being bogged down refereeing a civil war. Not only that our troops are sitting ducks for anyone who wants to take a shot at them. Losses? I am going to assume since you didn't answer my question about how many lives this whole thing is worth to mean that you are willing to sacrifice as many as necessary to keep Iraq afloat? INDEFINITELY! So now the Dems , and the majority of this country, want Iraq to start owning up to their end of the bargan is surrendering?

Dems tearing apart this country? UH Karl Rove has political strategy is to govern to 51% of the country. He successfully demonized war veterans as weak on national defense and you say dems have divided this country? Do you honestly say that the GOP is innocent when it comes to purposely dividing this country?

You and the Yoni types have been wrong since day one. The war has been mismanaged terribly for 4 yrs by your boy Bush and yet today you are still claiming that Dems are wrong? Dick Cheney is out there telling anyone who will listen that the dems are wrong when he has been wrong about everything concerning Iraq? And now I'm supposed to just shut up and allow the folks who have been wrong from the begininng take us further into the abyss? Sorry dude I love my country to much to let the neocons take us into the hell hole they created.

[xrayzebra]

GGA you grasp at straws and make straw men. I have never told
you to shut up, as if it would help, even I did.

AQ is not laughing one bit at us being there in Iraq. The would give
their front seat in hell to get us out of there so they could set up
another government with Iran's help.

[ChumpDumper]

The would give
their front seat in hell to get us out of there so they could set up
another government with Iran's help.I find that highly unlikely since Al Qaeda is a sunni group and the Iranian is mostly shiite.

[George Gervin's Afro]

GGA you grasp at straws and make straw men. I have never told
you to shut up, as if it would help, even I did.

AQ is not laughing one bit at us being there in Iraq. The would give
their front seat in hell to get us out of there so they could set up
another government with Iran's help.

You obviousl can't respond to basic questions. You know what ray? You are a dead ender who will whore this war no matter what the cost. It's America and you have every right to be dead wrong.. too bad people are dying for your leader's ignorance and stubborness. I will ask you one more time why should we keep giving this administration any leeway when they have been wrong about almost everything? Seems to me if you tally what has been going on the Dems have been more right than you dead enders.

[JoeChalupa]

Bush just doesn't get it.

[Yonivore]

Two separate articles talking about two different kinds of Sunni-Shia cooperation in Iraq.

Fighting to Win (http://news.yahoo.com/s/weeklystandard/20070418/cm_weeklystandard/fightingtowin)

Iraq's Shiites and Sunnis Come Together For Hajj (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/208/story_20812_1.html)

That's just the first two I came across. I've been reading of Sunni-Shi'ite cooperation ever since the invasion. To automatically throw out a proposition because you believe there is no way Sunnis and Shias can come together on an issue, is idiotic.

They've often come together to fight a common foe.

Fortunately, cooperation between the two against al Qaeda in Iraq is starting to take precedence over cooperation between the two against coalition forces in Iraq.

[Nbadan]

Fortunately, cooperation between the two against al Qaeda in Iraq is starting to take precedence over cooperation between the two against coalition forces in Iraq.

:lmao

[Nbadan]

Looks like some CNN 'experts' are siding with Ray and YOni...


Pulling U.S. forces from Iraq could trigger catastrophe, CNN analysts and other observers warn, affecting not just Iraq but its neighbors in the Middle East, with far-reaching global implications.


Sectarian violence could erupt on a scale never seen before in Iraq if coalition troops leave before Iraq's security forces are ready. Supporters of al Qaeda could develop an international hub of terror from which to threaten the West. And the likely civil war could draw countries like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran into a broader conflict.

President Bush vetoed a war spending bill Tuesday precisely because the Democrat-led Congress required the first U.S. combat troops to be withdrawn by October 1 with a goal of a complete pullout six months later.

Bush said such a deadline would be irresponsible and both sides are now working on new proposals -- which may have no pullout dates.

Linky (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/02/iraq.scenarios/index.html)

Exactly how many troops did these 'neighboring countries' supply to the coalition of the tricked again?

Let's examine our cluster-fuck choices here:

Stay - civil war, regional power struggles, death of innocent life, lose of more of my future retirement money in Iraq.

Go - civil war, regional power struggles,, death of innocent life, don't lose any more of my retirement money in Iraq.

What was the choice again?