Question about Manu Ginobili

[LakerGod]

I've been reading your posts claiming that Manu Ginobili is going to be an All-Star this season, my question is

What are your bases to make such a claim?

6 points tonight versus the grizzlies, 9 points two times already in 2 previous games.

Don't look like all-star numbers to me.



Inconsistency won't make you an all-star.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

But going 4-19 will, sadly.

Kobe's line against Memphis.

But just to show you that there's no hard feeling between Spurstalkers and LakerGods, here's a cupcake for you.

http://uweb.txstate.edu/~jr47581/pictures/you_suck_at_life.jpg

[LakerGod]

LOL

Kobe>Manu

No comparison, simple as that

[LakerGod]

Johnny Blaze, Just wondering, who's Devin Brown? Is he really going to average 10 points per game?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

LOL

Kobe>Manu

No comparison, simple as that

You're right, I mean, Manu never raped a girl.

I'm not saying Manu > Kobe or even equal to in ability. In stats, though (prior to Monday because quite frankly, I don't want to do every stat line).

Manu Ginobili - 10 Games

PPG 18.0
RPG 5.0
APG 4.8
SPG 2.10
BPG .50
FG% .509
FT% .783
3P% .475
MPG 30.7

Kobe Bryant

PPG 27.9
RPG 7.0
APG 5.9
SPG 1.09
BPG 1.27
FG% .395
FT% .820
3P% .327
MPG 42.3

Kobe scores .66 points per minute of play. Manu scores .59 points per minute of play. Manu has higher field goal percentages than Kobe. Manu has a lower amount of turnovers per game (which I'll call a tie based on the amount of minutes played - 2.9/4.0), and nearly the same in rebounds and assists based on minutes played.

Remember, Math Is Power.

[LakerGod]

Ok, let's proclaim Manu the best player on the planet and he should be an all-star this season

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

See, a true Lakers fan would have come back with an argument.

Something like...

- Manu's not the leader of his franchise, Kobe is.
- If Kobe had somebody like Duncan to take up the slack, he wouldn't have to take so many shots.
- Kobe single-handedly is probably the best player in the game.

You come back with...


Ok, let's proclaim Manu the best player on the planet and he should be an all-star this season

I don't like to ignore anyone, but I'm seriously considering going "Marcus Bryant" on you. Seriously, no smack here. Just come with a damned take for once.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I'm not saying Manu > Kobe or even equal to in ability.

[LakerGod]

If I come with a good take then I will be acused of flaming, trolling and I don't know how many other names, my point here is not even worthy to make a take about Manu and Kobe. Is just a waste of time, I've been bringing excellent topics on the state of the Lakers and spurs but always get censored by the owners of this site.

[LakerGod]

and by saying "censored" I mean, getting my posts deleted or changed.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

If I come with a good take then I will be acused of flaming, trolling and I don't know how many other names, my point here is not even worthy to make a take about Manu and Kobe. Is just a waste of time, I've been bringing excellent topics on the state of the Lakers and spurs but always get censored by the owners of this site.

So you're a political prisoner now?

Yet you still come around to "fight the good fight"?

What a man.

Since you so love the team from Hollywood, here's a new flick for you.

-----

Coming...to a NBA Lottery near you!

"LakerGod"

He was a man, an everyday man. Went to pick up his government cheese on the second day of every month. Until one day, he recieved a package in the mail.

That's right...an AOL 7.1 disc.

After finally loading the CD in his Speak-N-Say, he proceeds to talk jive with his brethren online.

But his attempts are THWARTHED by the evil Ellis clan. She of the microphone and digital recorder. He of the potato skins and Gilligan hat.

Many stood in his way, all of them would succeed.

But that would not stop "LakerGod". Not for one minute. Except when the Lakers lose and the Spurs win.

No, he would continue the long journey. One in which even his own would shun him. Kaster and Adidas of the good take. IILL of the beauty with brains. Tawnia whenever she decides to show up.

Laughed upon by Spurs fans and others, he continues his fight. For he is a prisoner fighting a war. For he is fighting the good fight. And he shall not stop...until the Lakers make the lottery.

That's "LakerGod"! Pre-order the BetaMax today at Amazon.com.

-----

[Useruser666]

Here's a take. Manu is averaging good numbers. He should receive AS consideration.

[smeagol]

If I come with a good take then I will be acused of flaming, trolling and I don't know how many other names, my point here is not even worthy to make a take about Manu and Kobe. Is just a waste of time, I've been bringing excellent topics on the state of the Lakers and spurs but always get censored by the owners of this site.
LG:

There's plenty of laker fans which post in this forum who people have respect for.

On the other hand, there you . . . :rolleyes

[Jimcs50]

You are right, Kobe has that back door play down pat.

[Medvedenko]

Hey, I love Manu and I think he's a really good exciting player. Just don't compare him to Kobe yet...You can't really compare stats, since the spurs are more focused inside out with the Lakers outside...well ok outside and Kobe handles the ball as much as any point gaurd. Laker God's a chump.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Do you guys selectively read my posts or something? Like skim through it or something?

Damn, I even gave you guys a comeback to my own argument.

Nobody's saying Manu is equal to or greater than Kobe, and if they are, they might have smoked some crack right before typing.

All I'm saying is to look at the stats and you'll see that for the most part, Kobe and Manu are contributing nearly the same to their teams in terms of stats.

And since the Spurs game IS inside-out, wouldn't that begin to reason that Manu's stats would be lower with Duncan's continued output. Manu's a more efficient player than Kobe is right now.

[SuperManu!!!]

Maybe manu should rape a girl so he can be as famous as kobe....
Or maybe play some seasons with shaq. It worked for kobe, now is working for wade!!!

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Maybe manu should rape a girl so he can be as famous as kobe....
Or maybe play some seasons with shaq. It worked for kobe, now is working for wade!!!

:lol

Manu's going to issue an exclusive interview to Kori to state that he doesn't want Duncan to be a Spur anymore.

[GrandeDavid]

Lakergod, I have but one word for you:

Detroit.

[Medvedenko]

Ok, let's not get a head of ourselves and start to compare franchises....
Manu has similar stats...well, kobe only averages a whole 8 points per game more. Give Manu the rock the same amount of touches Kobe gets and we'll see his numbers drop. It's like comparing Slava's per 48 minutes to TD's last year...doesn't matter.

[Nikos]

It's like comparing Slava's per 48 minutes to TD's last year...doesn't matter.

Not really cause Slava does not actually FINISH ball games on a consistent basis nor sees 'significant minutes' over the course of the 82 game season. Very faulty analogy.

Not that I think Manu is near Kobe's level, but Kobe is just flat out playing bad basketball right now relative to his abilities, at least from a scoring perspective. Per 48 or not Kobe is simply not producing points efficiently. That has little to do with shooting extra shots, and more to do with him getting off to a slow start.

Just because it is Kobe Bryant leading a team does not mean that any stat he puts up is deflated because he is the leader of the team. If he is playing bad basketball and shooting horribly then that is what he is doing.

[Man In Black]

If I come with a good take then I will be acused of flaming, trolling and I don't know how many other names, my point here is not even worthy to make a take about Manu and Kobe. Is just a waste of time, I've been bringing excellent topics on the state of the Lakers and spurs but always get censored by the owners of this site.
YOU ARE SERIOUSLY DELUSIONAL. When have you, Laker Fraud, actually come up with a good take?

Bring one for a change so I can laugh at you some more as I debase it with some clear and concise points. I AWAIT YOUR FIRST GOOD TAKE.

[baseline bum]

This ignore feature is freaking great! Time to add Buddy Holly now!

[boutons]

Even better, a feature of "IGNORE thread started by an IGNOREd poster", because responses to trolls are as useless as the trolls.

And I really don't like threads being cluttered up with
"This message is hidden because <flaming asshole> is on your ignore list".

IGNORE whatever but silently.

[samikeyp]

If I come with a good take then I will be acused of flaming, trolling and I don't know how many other names, my point here is not even worthy to make a take about Manu and Kobe. Is just a waste of time, I've been bringing excellent topics on the state of the Lakers and spurs but always get censored by the owners of this site.

The next time you come with a good take will be the first time.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Kobe>Manu

Only on backdoor plays.

[tekdragon]

LakerGod:

I agree that you have been unfairly censored at this site. The administrators of this forum have repeatedly deleted your excellent basketball analysis, edited well thought-out and objective posts, and generally have stifled your ability to express yourself. It's really a travesty how this place treats you.

I have an idea: in protest, maybe you should never post on this forum again. That'll show 'em. Show those Nazi's that you won't stand for this kind of oppression!

Stand up for yourself, man! Fight the Power! Don't let The Man hold you down! Protest!

This place would go into mourning if you stopped posting...try it, it'll work! You have my complete support!

[tekdragon]

AHF with the Post of the Day...

:rollin

[Medvedenko]

Yeah I guess playing bad means almost averaging 28 points 7 rebounds and 6 assists bad numbers. It's funny that he is struggling..but those are pretty good numbers..considering he's playing like ASS

[Nikos]

Yeah I guess playing bad means almost averaging 28 points 7 rebounds and 6 assists bad numbers. It's funny that he is struggling..but those are pretty good numbers..considering he's playing like ASS

If you had any concept of EFFICIENCY, you would see that Kobe's stats are actually NOTICABLY worse than Wade's, Nowitski's, Ray Allen's and a few other players who Kobe is supposedly clearly better than.

Kobe is shooting horribly and scoring in efficiently relative to past years and that is a FACT. He is getting an inefficient 28-7-6 when other plays like Lebron and Wade are putting up same numbers MORE efficiently. That was my whole point. Not that Kobe is playing bad -- but relative to how he SHOULD be playing based on his pedigree of being the next Jordan etc... he IS playing poorly.

[Marcus Bryant]

This ignore feature is freaking great! Time to add Buddy Holly now!

base has discovered the joy that is the forum mute button. :smokin

[Rummpd]

Manu is the best player from his Gold Medal country that is enough in my book and a class act and a heck of a player.

Kobe cannot claim that (can make a case for top 5 USA)!

MadDoc

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Player G EFF
1. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves) 9 35.00
2. Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas Mavericks) 11 28.64
2. Amare Stoudemire (Phoenix Suns) 11 28.64
4. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 27.90
5. Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs) 11 27.64
6. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat) 9 27.22
7. Shawn Marion (Phoenix Suns) 11 25.45
8. Ron Artest (Indiana Pacers) 7 25.14
9. Paul Pierce (Boston Celtics) 8 24.75
10. Carlos Boozer (Utah Jazz) 11 24.64
11. Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers) 11 24.45
12. Zach Randolph (Portland Trail Blazers) 9 23.78
13. Steve Nash (Phoenix Suns) 11 23.64
14. Chris Webber (Sacramento Kings) 10 23.60
15. Chauncey Billups (Detroit Pistons) 7 23.29
16. Andrei Kirilenko (Utah Jazz) 11 23.00
17. Ray Allen (Seattle SuperSonics) 11 22.91
18. Ben Wallace (Detroit Pistons) 6 22.83
19. Jermaine O'Neal (Indiana Pacers) 8 22.13
20. Brad Miller (Sacramento Kings) 10 21.90
21. Grant Hill (Orlando Magic) 9 21.89
22. Antawn Jamison (Washington Wizards) 9 21.44
23. Shaquille O'Neal (Miami Heat) 11 21.36
24. Michael Redd (Milwaukee Bucks) 8 21.13
25. Pau Gasol (Memphis Grizzlies) 9 21.11
26. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 21.10
27. Elton Brand (Los Angeles Clippers) 11 20.82
28. Steve Francis (Orlando Magic) 9 20.67
28. Stephon Marbury (New York Knicks) 9 20.67
30. Drew Gooden (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 20.10
31. Keith Van Horn (Milwaukee Bucks) 8 19.75
32. Kenyon Martin (Denver Nuggets) 10 19.50
33. Manu Ginobili (San Antonio Spurs) 11 19.45


Not much of a gap in efficiency, despite the fact Kobe plays about 15 minutes more per game than Manu, is the focal point of his offense, and is scoring 28 a game, don't you think?

[Rummpd]

Interesting list and thank you for providing it. Well I guess #8 on the above list is going to be in a stagnant position for awhile and who would have ever thought that Kobe, the invincible LakerGod" would not be number 1?

MadDoc

[Medvedenko]

He will never be #1 in that list...so, I guess Shaq isn't as good as everyone above him either....that list is bogus. However, I guess you would take KVH before Manu...
Kobe is in a slump and is injured (re hasn't practiced in the last 4 available times) and still putting up solid numbers that will earn him an all-star nod. Is he playing at the MVP level, no he isn't. You give Manu the same amount of touches as you give kobe and run the offence through him, you'll see his scoring go up but his effeciency go down.

[GerM]

You give Manu the same amount of touches as you give kobe and run the offence through him, you'll see his scoring go up but his effeciency go down.

You can´t be sure of that, because he never tried in the nba... And last time he played that way, was in the olympics and.... mvp.

[ALVAREZ6]

laker dude, your a retard, manu played 4 games in 5 nights...kobe is a cocky b*tCH!

why are you even posting here, we all hate you and ur scrubby lakers. :flipoff :makemyday

[ALVAREZ6]

Ok, let's proclaim Manu the best player on the planet and he should be an all-star this season



that's a true statement LakerGod :blah

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

that list is bogus. However, I guess you would take KVH before Manu...
Kobe is in a slump and is injured

It's a complex statistical analysis, I guess that's over the head of nitwit Laker bandwagoners who never got higher than basic algebra in high school.

Manu is also injured, playing through it, but you don't see us on here making excuses left and right, and despite his injuries his team is still doing a lot better than Kobe's.


You give Manu the same amount of touches as you give kobe and run the offence through him, you'll see his scoring go up but his effeciency go down.

I disagree vehemently with this assessment. You give Manu the same amount of touches as Kobe and his scoring and assists would both be up.

We already saw what Manu could do being the focal point in the Olympics - beat an NBA All-Star team and won a gold medal in the process.

Next.

[ALVAREZ6]

Very well spoken Aggie Hoopsfan

[ALVAREZ6]

Johnny Blaze, wonderful story line for LakerGod's movie , by the way lol, i love it.

manu can be just as good as kobe, but kobe hogs it way more, shoots more, plays more minutes... and he did have shaq on his team for most of his career...the Lakers got raped by detroit in the finals and hats what counts, not you individually, but how your TEAM finishes.

And on top of that, manu is just an all around better person, he's nice, he appreciates fans, and he appreciates little girls' sexual rights( **cough cough ** Kobe) Manu never raped a helpless teenager, did he?

[Kori Ellis]

Manu would never be as good as Kobe. You can't just extropolate stats over minutes and take into account touches and say that he would be as good as Kobe. There's a reason players play the amount of minutes they play and get the touches they get.

I understand y'all are Spurs fans. But Manu isn't at Kobe's level.

[Manu20]

laker dude, your a retard, manu played 4 games in 5 nights...kobe is a cocky b*tCH!

why are you even posting here, we all hate you and ur scrubby lakers. :flipoff :makemyday

Well said ALVAREZ6

[Phenomanul]

I know Kori already said one can't make extrapolations of numbers/minutes (and I agree).... having said that however have a look at this:

2004-05 Regular Season Efficiency Rating Per 48 Minutes

Efficiency Formula: ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G
Player G EFF48
1. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves) 9 42.35
2. Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas Mavericks) 11 37.80
3. Amare Stoudemire (Phoenix Suns) 11 37.71
4. Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs) 11 36.48
5. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat) 9 34.59
6. Pau Gasol (Memphis Grizzlies) 9 33.78
7. Carlos Boozer (Utah Jazz) 11 32.77
8. Raef LaFrentz (Boston Celtics) 8 32.32
9. Chris Webber (Sacramento Kings) 10 32.27
10. Jermaine O'Neal (Indiana Pacers) 8 32.06
11. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 31.96
12. Drew Gooden (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 31.63
13. Steve Nash (Phoenix Suns) 11 31.59
14. Shawn Marion (Phoenix Suns) 11 31.55
15. Shaquille O'Neal (Miami Heat) 11 30.74
16. Manu Ginobili (San Antonio Spurs) 11 30.66
17. Paul Pierce (Boston Celtics) 8 30.46
18. Andrei Kirilenko (Utah Jazz) 11 30.13
19. Al Jefferson (Boston Celtics) 8 30.12
20. Grant Hill (Orlando Magic) 9 29.37
21. Chauncey Billups (Detroit Pistons) 7 29.30
21. Stromile Swift (Memphis Grizzlies) 11 29.30
23. Zach Randolph (Portland Trail Blazers) 9 29.10
24. Yao Ming (Houston Rockets) 12 29.06
25. Ron Artest (Indiana Pacers) 7 29.03
26. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 28.69
27. Brad Miller (Sacramento Kings) 10 28.49
28. Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers) 11 27.77
29. Ben Wallace (Detroit Pistons) 6 27.63
30. Ray Allen (Seattle SuperSonics) 11 27.62
31. Larry Hughes (Washington Wizards) 8 27.35
32. Juan Dixon (Washington Wizards) 9 26.95
33. Lamar Odom (Los Angeles Lakers) 11 26.91
34. Matt Bonner (Toronto Raptors) 11 26.88
35. Elton Brand (Los Angeles Clippers) 11 26.55
36. Kenyon Martin (Denver Nuggets) 10 26.52
37. Rafer Alston (Toronto Raptors) 11 26.16
38. Michael Sweetney (New York Knicks) 9 26.06
39. Josh Childress (Atlanta Hawks) 8 25.82
40. Dikembe Mutombo (Houston Rockets) 11 25.54
41. Gordan Giricek (Utah Jazz) 11 25.46
42. Chris Mihm (Los Angeles Lakers) 10 25.38
43. Stephon Marbury (New York Knicks) 9 25.29
44. Mehmet Okur (Utah Jazz) 11 25.26
45. Bobby Simmons (Los Angeles Clippers) 11 25.22
46. Steve Francis (Orlando Magic) 9 25.15
47. Antawn Jamison (Washington Wizards) 9 25.11
48. Kurt Thomas (New York Knicks) 9 25.09
49. Earl Boykins (Denver Nuggets) 10 25.05
50. Mike Miller (Memphis Grizzlies) 11 24.99

[jalbre6]

The question here isn't if Kobe is a better patriot, humanitarian, NBA spokesman, or husband than Manu...it's if he's a better player.

Well, is he? Probably. I'd like to think that if Manu was given the opportunity of going to the NBA at 18, getting the NBA-quality coaching and eased into a 50+ win team at a young age, we could mention them as equals. But he wasn't. Manu was a rookie in the league at an age where Kobe already had hardware.

I don't like the sorry fucker, but Kobe is a superior player to Ginobili. He isn't, however, a better teammate, and right here right now Manu is in a much better situation. And we all know which one had more fun this summer.

[Nikos]

Manu would never be as good as Kobe. You can't just extropolate stats over minutes and take into account touches and say that he would be as good as Kobe. There's a reason players play the amount of minutes they play and get the touches they get.

I understand y'all are Spurs fans. But Manu isn't at Kobe's level.

Of course, but the point is Kobe is not playing efficient basketball, thats all.

Just because Kobe has better accumulated numbers does not mean he is playing better than guys like Wade, James, Ray etc... He is still the better player, but I do not think Kobe deserves a free pass because HE IS THE MAN, if he is playing below his standards and putting up an inefficient 27-7-7 I do not see the problem in pointing it out.

Of course Manu is not near Kobe's level. That is obvious. But for those using pure stats as a measurement to compare players, or just saying Manu is only doing well because he isn't the MAN is not completely accurate. He could probably put up similiar stats on another team, maybe better looking glory stats, but they would come less efficiently (but thats not something people recognize anyway). They just seem to notice PPG+RPG+APG etc...

[Kori Ellis]

Nikos -- there's no problem with your post. But several people in this thread said if Manu got Kobe's shots and playing time, he'd be as good as Kobe.

[E20]

Manu >> Kobe.

That's just me. :fro

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Individually I don't think Manu's as good as Kobe, though Manu's points and assists would go up given more touches.

However I will argue til' I'm blue in the face that Manu is a better team player than Kobe.

[TMTTRIO]

Kobe is the better player but IMO I'd rather have Manu on my team

[Drachen]

Hey, I love Manu and I think he's a really good exciting player. Just don't compare him to Kobe yet...You can't really compare stats, since the spurs are more focused inside out with the Lakers outside...well ok outside and Kobe handles the ball as much as any point gaurd. Laker God's a chump.
Im really sorry, but this is just a retarded excuse. Kobe is currently the lakers, like it or not, thank buss for this. Manu is not the spurs yet he is top 5 per 49 mins player in the league. Nothing against Kobe, the hall of famer (seriously, no sarcasm intended, I swear) but the topic of this thread is that MG is an ALL-STAR candidate, which he is. With an efficientcy rating of less than 1% less than kobe, everyone must agree that he is a candidate.

[Rummpd]

Kobe is great/fabulous top 4-6 NBA player (probably 4, but he is simply not as important to a team as Duncan, Shaq, Garnett) but that will never replace my perception that this unlikeable guy, who could have had it all, seems to have beaten the system both in regards to getting what he wanted with his team with his smugness, and in the more serious realm of life. Laker fans can have him and embrace him all they want, I for one am very satified having Duncan, Manu and Parker (all class acts) vs. Kobe, Odom (head cases x 2) and their multiple smurfs.
MadDoc

[tekdragon]

AHF hit it right on the head. Manu isn't (individually), and never will be, as good a player as Kobe.

However, Manu can be a more valuable component to a championship team.

[Medvedenko]

"However, Manu can be a more valuable component to a championship team."
Yeah, because Kobe wasn't a valuable component in the 3 rings he won....man the ignorance is running rampant on this site. I love Manu's game, how many times do I have to say it...but saying he's a better teammate is retarded. What does that really mean anyway....Derek Fisher is a great team player as is Robert Horry....are they all better than kobe. The point is winning and carrying your team when the chips are down. Kobe has proved that in the past and I guess that is lost on all of you.

[tekdragon]

No, the Lakers won because they had the best two players on the planet, and there was no way to stop them both. Kobe, however, has never made his teammates better. It was a matter of one of them beating you, or the other beating you.

Manu has the potential to become a Magic Johnson-type player, who makes everyone on the floor look better because he is a superior teammate.

Kobe has no such potential, or at least has shown none. He might be the best player on the planet, I'll give you that. There's definitely a case to be made.

Manu is the superior teammate, though. No one is saying he's a better athlete or scorer.

Think about it: who's the better teammate? Jason Kidd, or Kobe? Obviously the answer is Kidd. Manu can be that type of player. Kobe is one of the greatest scorers of all time.

We're just trying to compare apples to apples:

Scorer/athlete:
Kobe>Manu

Teammate/floor general:
Kobe<Manu

You may now untie your panties.

[Rummpd]

Bryant will never be the "best player" on the planet as long as Garnett, Duncan, Shaq and probably now James play. Best players = make others better and I don't believe Bryant will ever take a team to the finals without Shaq (as even AI has done).

MadDoc

[genghisrex]

I've been bringing excellent topics on the state of the Lakers and spurs but always get censored by the owners of this site.
Wow, Kori and timvp must really be censoring and deleting your good threads because all I've ever seen you post is crap.

[tekdragon]

Rummpd:

Personally, I agree.

I admit that there is a case to be made, however. I wouldn't make the case, but I can't blame someone who does. He is an incredibly gifted player who works his ass off on his game.

In my opinion, though:


Best players = make others better

this statement prevents him from being the best in my book.

[Medvedenko]

Of course, Kobe's not a team player....what are you guys thinking...I guess I can argue that Chris Mihm's increase in scoring has nothing to do with Kobe, or all other teammates preforming well given Kobe's lack of passing. Oh, if you do recall in their championship days it was Kobe who led the team in assists. Winning fricken games and rings is the acid test. Comparing Manu and Magic is even more ludicrous.

[Useruser666]

Of course, Kobe's not a team player....what are you guys thinking...I guess I can argue that Chris Mihm's increase in scoring has nothing to do with Kobe, or all other teammates preforming well given Kobe's lack of passing. Oh, if you do recall in their championship days it was Kobe who led the team in assists. Winning fricken games and rings is the acid test. Comparing Manu and Magic is even more ludicrous.

Mihm is scoring more because he is actually playing.

[Medvedenko]

This thread is retarded...I'm done. You guys are stubborn and I'm stubborn, so it's moot. I guess we'll see at the end of their respected careers who will go down in infamy. I just love the posts, I would rather have Manu as a teammate than Kobe. You team-up Kobe and Duncan, the league would fold.

[bigzak25]

I understand y'all are Spurs fans. But Manu isn't at Kobe's level.


as a shooter only IMO. and that is the difference.

manu was shooting lights out early, his 3's didn't look smooth, but they were dropping....that has come and gone....he finds that stroke again, and he will be allstar bound.

[Medvedenko]

Why....did you watch the last Laker game...Kobe destroyed the Bucks and shut down Redd at the same time. Please let's not do this anymore....it's starting to hurt my head.

[Useruser666]

This thread is retarded...I'm done. You guys are stubborn and I'm stubborn, so it's moot. I guess we'll see at the end of their respected careers who will go down in infamy. I just love the posts, I would rather have Manu as a teammate than Kobe. You team-up Kobe and Duncan, the league would fold.

Maybe you don't understand the point some people were making. Manu truly wants to get his team involved. He wants to win more than achieve personal glory. How is Kobe a good teammate when he doesn't lift a finger to keep his coach or a great player on his team? He wants to be lifted on the shoulders of others, rather than lift up those around him. He is a spotlight whore.

EDIT: Kobe wouldn't want to play with Duncan. He wants everything to himself.

[Medvedenko]

User6666, I guess Kobe owns Shaq and Phil, two bigger ego maniacs than Kobe ever will be. Secondly, he does get his teammates involved a little too much...Kobe fed Shaw more than any player during their run, and made Shaq "better" for it. Just like Shaq made Kobe better....it works both ways.

[violentkitten]

ginobili is at the top of his game its all downhill from here. kobe over manu every day and twice on sundays you guys are some dumb homer bitches

[Medvedenko]

http://www.82games.com/rolandratings0405.htm
It just shows you that if the Lakers didn't have Kobe, they would really struggle....MVP like numbers...dependancy.... I don't know, just more damn stats to peruse.

[Useruser666]

User6666, I guess Kobe owns Shaq and Phil, two bigger ego maniacs than Kobe ever will be. Secondly, he does get his teammates involved a little too much...Kobe fed Shaw more than any player during their run, and made Shaq "better" for it. Just like Shaq made Kobe better....it works both ways.

Ask yourself this, what would have happened if Kobe asked the club to keep Jackson and resign O'neal? Do like the current team better? I'm not putting them down, just asking a simple question.

Kitty, I would watch out if I were a pussy on Kobe's team.

[Medvedenko]

Look, I would have loved the Lakers to resign Shaq and keep Phil. I say Lakers, not Kobe because Buss is making the damn decision. Now, only if Shaq were to sign for a lot less then he demanded, since after Kobe and Shaq we couldn't sign anyone worth while. Kobe and Shaq had it good, however they didn't win in the last 2 years, so change is in order, plus financial responsibility.
I like the triangle offence than all the iso I'm seeing lately. Conversley, the Lakers are more fun to watch this year. I got spoiled in the last 5 years, knowing that when the Lakers lost it was because they didn't show up, not that they actually got beat. This year is more challenging for the fans, and by the end of the year the true fans will be left. We can't win them all, but I would like 1 more year with Zen, Kobe, Snaq, Malone....

[Useruser666]

Look, I would have loved the Lakers to resign Shaq and keep Phil. I say Lakers, not Kobe because Buss is making the damn decision. Now, only if Shaq were to sign for a lot less then he demanded, since after Kobe and Shaq we couldn't sign anyone worth while. Kobe and Shaq had it good, however they didn't win in the last 2 years, so change is in order, plus financial responsibility.
I like the triangle offence than all the iso I'm seeing lately. Conversley, the Lakers are more fun to watch this year. I got spoiled in the last 5 years, knowing that when the Lakers lost it was because they didn't show up, not that they actually got beat. This year is more challenging for the fans, and by the end of the year the true fans will be left. We can't win them all, but I would like 1 more year with Zen, Kobe, Snaq, Malone....

So you don't believe Kobe had ANYTHING to dowith those two leaving? You don't think kobe had any pull on those decisions?

[ALVAREZ6]

So you don't believe Kobe had ANYTHING to dowith those two leaving? You don't think kobe had any pull on those decisions?


I do.

[Medvedenko]

Indirectly....maybe, I don't think he had a say..remember Jerry Buss has been around a lot longer than Kobe. However, I didn't see Kobe really campaign for both of them to stay. He stayed "quiet" but you never know what happened. The team was in shambles before any of this happened, and they got to the finals on pure talent alone.

[Useruser666]

Indirectly....maybe, I don't think he had a say..remember Jerry Buss has been around a lot longer than Kobe. However, I didn't see Kobe really campaign for both of them to stay. He stayed "quiet" but you never know what happened. The team was in shambles before any of this happened, and they got to the finals on pure talent alone.

Everything you say is true. But I honestly believe that Kobe could have done something to stop the break up. If he was the one traded it wouldn't make sense, but he was the last piece standing.

[Medvedenko]

I bet Shaq, Phil and Kobe had a play in this development. They all needed to be on the same page...Shaq taking a lesser role, Phil deferring his O to Kobe, and Kobe sucking up some ego play along side another great player...

[Dex]

I never thought I'd see the day when I'd be quoting LakerGod, and yet...here we are.

:lmao

[LakerGod]

ginobili is at the top of his game its all downhill from here. kobe over manu every day and twice on sundays you guys are some dumb homer bitches
Excellent!

[LakerGod]

I never thought I'd see the day when I'd be quoting LakerGod, and yet...here we are.

:lmao
I guess you don't understand the meaning of sarcasm.

sar·casm http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Dsarcasm) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (särhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifkhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifzhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifm)
n.

A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wit)1.

[Rummpd]

Jealously by a Laker fan = how great is that? LakerGod realizes deep down you do not measure a winners value by some statistics in a few games.

If the Lakers had Manu with Kobe would be a dream backcourt.

However, the Lakers as currently composed with Kobe, Odom, the mad Flopper, BoyWalton and the smurfs scare no one. Even when Malone makes his expected Lazarus impression by coming out of his semitruck or telephone booth whatever, and comes out for the playoffs his team will be a prime target for teams more than willing to put them out of their deserved misery in the first round. Expect an early exit Lakers fans!! and enjoy watching Manu perform as only he can with his hustle and unique verve when it counts.
MadDoc

[ALVAREZ6]

I guess you don't understand the meaning of sarcasm.

sar·casm http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Dsarcasm) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (särhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifkhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifzhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifm)
n.

A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wit)1.


LakerFag, i don't think you used sarcasm at all with the Manu = greatest player thing. It seems like you totally meant it from your heart.

[ALVAREZ6]

http://www.spursinfo.com/photos/spurs/041119/041119_4_sm.jpg

http://www.spursinfo.com/photos/spurs/041119/041119_4_sm.jpg

http://www.spursinfo.com/photos/spurs/041119/041119_4_sm.jpg

[Dex]

I guess you don't understand the meaning of sarcasm.

sar·casm http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3Dsarcasm) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (särhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifkhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifzhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifm)
n.

A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wit)1.



Oh, I understand sarcasm, LakerGod.

See, that's WHY my sig is funny. It diffuses the sarcasm of your statement by placing it completely out of context. Every single time I post, might I add. :blah

Until they invent a font that specifically denotes sarcasm, I suggest you keep your wise cracks off the net. And remember that any jackass with a keyboard can abuse dictionary.com.

:smokin

[Kori Ellis]

Enough!

If you don't like someone's post and can't argue with some sense and without namecalling, don't respond.

[polandprzem]

Enough!

If you don't like someone's post and can't argue with some sense and without namecalling, don't respond.

Yes how many times I heard "ignore"
But they didn't