Kurt Thomas starting

[BILLYE]

How does Kurt Thomas starting the game for the Suns change the way the Spurs attack?

I think that there will be more pick and roll sets at the top of the key with Tony/Manu & Tim. Finley, Bowen and even Barry will have a field day with the collapsing defense trying to stop Tony. The lack of athleticism with Thomas in the game favors the Spurs heavily.

[TxJudsonRocketTx]

I dont think our plan of attack changes too much, Phoenix on the other hand is going to be forced to play our style of game and try to win with a score I'm guessing will be in the 90's. If they really believe all they needed was a bit more hustle to beat us on Sunday when they only lost by 5 I dont see why D'Antoni is already bailing on his lineup

[BILLYE]

oh i agree with you totally...its not that we are changing things really, but utilizing the pick and roll more from certain spots on the floor forcing the Suns to make a decision on how they want to get beat...
I think you are right, D'antoni is changing his lineup when he shouldn't.

[dreamcastrocks]

I dont think our plan of attack changes too much, Phoenix on the other hand is going to be forced to play our style of game and try to win with a score I'm guessing will be in the 90's. If they really believe all they needed was a bit more hustle to beat us on Sunday when they only lost by 5 I dont see why D'Antoni is already bailing on his lineup

Because the Suns are a much better defensive team with him in the lineup. Amare was the only one doing anything on the boards in the last game, and we need the interior presence that KT brings against Duncan. He also boxes out well, hits the 15' jumper regularly, and plays the P&R very well.

Kurt Thomas was specificially signed after the '05 season because of the beatdown you guys gave us in '05. He damn well better be getting minutes.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

He's springing a trap on the Spurs. They'll never see the shut down defense coming. Spurs will be lucky to get to 90 after D'Antoni tells his team before the game to "play defense", "play hard on defense", and "hustle on the defensive end". When you're that great of a coach that's all it takes.

[DarrinS]

Wow. Pop has forced D'Antonio to go "big". I love it.

[DarrinS]

He's springing a trap on the Spurs. They'll never see the shut down defense coming. Spurs will be lucky to get to 90 after D'Antoni tells his team before the game to "play defense", "play hard on defense", and "hustle on the defensive end". When you're that great of a coach that's all it takes.


I'm picking up on your sarcasm. :lol

[TxJudsonRocketTx]

Because the Suns are a much better defensive team with him in the lineup. Amare was the only one doing anything on the boards in the last game, and we need the interior presence that KT brings against Duncan. He also boxes out well, hits the 15' jumper regularly, and plays the P&R very well.

Kurt Thomas was specificially signed after the '05 season because of the beatdown you guys gave us in '05. He damn well better be getting minutes.

Whether their D improves with him in thel ineup or not the fact is the Phoenix tempo is going to be significantly slower, and Nash is going to have a ton of pressure on him to create shots for his teammates. I say stick Bruce on him and force Marion/Bell/Amare to create and work for their own shots. Marion is not much more than a lankier Bruce Bowen in my eyes, stick someone on him to prevent the three and pretty much just stay in his way. I'm just sick of Nash getting wide open looks off of that p&r, I dont expect Pop feels any different and Nash will be lucky if he gets 2 of those shots again tonight

[ducks]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1648431#post1648431

[Jimcs50]

It is a good sign that Phoenix is adjusting to us, rather than the other way around, like last year.

[spursfaninla]

If Phoenix could score as much with Thomas as they can with Diaw and JJ getting his minutes, don't you think they would have been playing this lineup uall year?

Thomas is going to slow down their attack. I noticed that Phoenix easily makes most of their shots/drives early in the shot clock, to encourage a fast pace to the game. One telling example; I remember one play where Nash drove in and was stopped, then he passed it off to Bell who drove in and was stopped. Bell passed the ball to Nash who then reset the play; THERE WERE STILL 14 SECONDS ON THE CLOCK! The spurs often are just starting their 1st atack on the basket by that time!

Thomas is just not built for this type of offense. Phoenix is almost better off with him staying back on D waiting...poor guy will just be making it to half court when the ball is already coming back again! He can run for 15-20 minutes, but will be gassed if he runs for 30 minutes..dude is a dinosaur.

Thomas will help on duncan, and will make better team-d decisions, but he has not played extended minutes all year so to ask him to play the next 4 or 5 is a big change for their team and asking alot of this guy.

I am curious how he stays out of foul trouble.

The spurs should also be able to cheat on him defensively, so this SHOULD make things easier on the spurs Team D.

[dreamcastrocks]

Whether their D improves with him in thel ineup or not the fact is the Phoenix tempo is going to be significantly slower, and Nash is going to have a ton of pressure on him to create shots for his teammates. I say stick Bruce on him and force Marion/Bell/Amare to create and work for their own shots. Marion is not much more than a lankier Bruce Bowen in my eyes, stick someone on him to prevent the three and pretty much just stay in his way. I'm just sick of Nash getting wide open looks off of that p&r, I dont expect Pop feels any different and Nash will be lucky if he gets 2 of those shots again tonight

Maybe, maybe not. KT basically played one quarter in the last game, and they scored 31 points that quarter. The Suns need to not allow second, third chances on the offensive end. In fact that one series, the Spurs got 7 offensive rebounds. Nash is the one that controls the tempo. If we have KT shagging the rebounds, it gives Marion, and less importantly Amare to get out on the fast break after KT's outlet pass.

[MoSpur]

I don't think they need Kurt Thomas to run the floor on offense. He is going to be in the game to play defense and to rebound. They are going to have four other guys on the floor who will be looking to run.

[BILLYE]

four guys running the break....against the Spurs....the team that has the best defense (transition D as well) in the league. Spurs win

[ducks]

Anyway, the Suns are 7-0 with the Thomas-Stoudemire-Marion-Bell-Nash lineup. They used it five times in February and twice in March, the last time being a March 30 125-108 home win against Denver."

[L.I.T]

You can't really cheat off of Thomas in the half-court either. He's made his career knocking down those little mid-range jumpers.

That being said...that's about all he can do offensively, pick and pop.

[kskonn]

this is not a bad move for the suns. Statistically it is the best move, he defends duncan the best as well as Parker off of the pick and roll. We will need Finley, Barry and Bruce to hit their open shots to take advantage of KT getting more run.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I actually like the fact that the Suns have publicly stated that KT was aquired to play Duncan. I have the impression that most Suns fans seem to think that KT will make a huge difference. What's going to happen is that TD is going to tire of the ' TD stopper' talk and proceed to dominate KT. That's my prediction and I'm sticking to it!

[bdictjames]

Duncan usually doesnt have a two "bad" games at a row against an opponent. He usually figures out a way to beat them, either from inside or out.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I hope this follows the Ruben patterson "kobe stopper" crap he was spewing. Kobe took it as a personal challenge and lit up Paterson for the entire series.

[BigBeezie]

I agree with what has pretty much already been stated.

1- The Suns will slow down and score less. Probably somewhere around 85-92.
2- Duncan will take this as a challenge; even being doubled. If he can play
quarterback then we're good
3- The Suns are already adjusting to us, so this only helps the Spurs

[Spursfan101]

Doesn't effect us at all...he'll get two quick fouls within the first three minutes

[Capt Bringdown]

Good news. Teams adjusting to Spurs ball, instead of us panicking with doomed concepts such as small ball.

[dreamcastrocks]

Anyway, the Suns are 7-0 with the Thomas-Stoudemire-Marion-Bell-Nash lineup. They used it five times in February and twice in March, the last time being a March 30 125-108 home win against Denver."

That's an interesting stat that I didn't know about.

Thanks

[bdictjames]

I agree with what has pretty much already been stated.

1- The Suns will slow down and score less. Probably somewhere around 85-92.
2- Duncan will take this as a challenge; even being doubled. If he can play
quarterback then we're good
3- The Suns are already adjusting to us, so this only helps the Spurs
If Duncan resorted to passing, Manu should be able to go out on the offensive end.

[DarrinS]

Anyway, the Suns are 7-0 with the Thomas-Stoudemire-Marion-Bell-Nash lineup. They used it five times in February and twice in March, the last time being a March 30 125-108 home win against Denver."


I just looked this up. Here are the teams they beat with those starters

Lakers (twice)
Celtics
Timberwolves
Hawks
Pacers
Denver


As far as I can tell, they haven't tried this starting lineup against the Spurs.

[tmtcsc]

I imagine we will have one less person to worry about taking a three. It will give Brent Barry some more minutes.

I think its a good move by Phoenix. They need to put a different defender on Tim because Amare's foul prone and just not that good a defender.

It will free up some other perimeter players for us, so they will have to come up big tonight.

[jmard5]

Wow. Pop has forced D'Antonio to go "big". I love it.

:lol There you go!

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I just looked this up. Here are the teams they beat with those starters

Lakers (twice)
Celtics
Timberwolves
Hawks
Pacers
Denver


As far as I can tell, they haven't tried this starting lineup against the Spurs.

Kurt Thomas was also injured for a good part of the season, so that might be why we didn't use it as often.

[Xylus]

I love how you guys are acting like we think Kurt Thomas is our savior. He's simply a better defender than Amare, he boxes out well, he rebounds, he can hit the jumper, and he's shown that he can keep up with the offense.

I've been wanting D'Antoni to start Kurt Thomas all year, because the Suns always win with the Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare-Thomas lineup. We brought Kurt here so that he could start next to Amare, but D'Antoni has always undervalued him.

[Russ]

Everything from the Suns smacks of desperation now. They're already preparing for the aftermath, posturing for the fingerpointing.

[DarrinS]

I love how you guys are acting like we think Kurt Thomas is our savior. He's simply a better defender than Amare, he boxes out well, he rebounds, he can hit the jumper, and he's shown that he can keep up with the offense.

I've been wanting D'Antoni to start Kurt Thomas all year, because the Suns always win with the Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare-Thomas lineup. We brought Kurt here so that he could start next to Amare, but D'Antoni has always undervalued him.


As a Spurs fan, I really don't care who starts out of Diaw/Thomas/Jones.

[VaSpursFan]

KT starting allows Amare to stay out of foul trouble by picking up cheap ones in the first half. my guess is at the start of the second half, if amare doesn't pick up silly fouls, KT will go to the bench and they'll trot out the "up tempo" lineup.

[Xylus]

KT starting allows Amare to stay out of foul trouble by picking up cheap ones in the first half. my guess is at the start of the second half, if amare doesn't pick up silly fouls, KT will go to the bench and they'll trot out the "up tempo" lineup.
That wouldn't surprise me. Kurt's primary role is to take some of the defensive liability off of Amare, so he can devote more of himself on offense. I'd like to see Kurt in the game during the final stretch, though, because he has a knack for grabbing big rebounds.

Wouldn't be surprised if we saw a Marcus Banks sighting tonight, either.

[ATXSPUR]

I just looked this up. Here are the teams they beat with those starters

Lakers (twice)
Celtics
Timberwolves
Hawks
Pacers
Denver


As far as I can tell, they haven't tried this starting lineup against the Spurs.

only two of those teams made the playoffs...and they combined managed two wins.

therefore no worry about the LINEUP

now the team itself is very formidable.

[kps0001]

Duncan put up 33 and 16. I don't know how much better he can play and if he does hopefully it is a result of Parker having an off night as well as HOrry and Finley. Manu doesn't scare me. I think bringing in Kurt is really to help keep those 16 boards down by Duncan and allow us a chance to get out and run. Although he can play better D on Timmy. He also creates some nice spacing on offense since he can consistenlty knock down the mid range jumper creating more opportunities for Marion and Amare to get some dunks. People are saying Kurt will slow down our offense but we don't need all five guys running the floor when we are typically putting up shots within the first 7 seconds. We just have to hit the boards, get out and run, and knock down those shots. I know Timmy can run the floor good for a big man but if we get in our pace he will be worn out.

[tmtcsc]

Duncan put up 33 and 16. I don't know how much better he can play and if he does hopefully it is a result of Parker having an off night as well as HOrry and Finley. Manu doesn't scare me. I think bringing in Kurt is really to help keep those 16 boards down by Duncan and allow us a chance to get out and run. Although he can play better D on Timmy. He also creates some nice spacing on offense since he can consistenlty knock down the mid range jumper creating more opportunities for Marion and Amare to get some dunks. People are saying Kurt will slow down our offense but we don't need all five guys running the floor when we are typically putting up shots within the first 7 seconds. We just have to hit the boards, get out and run, and knock down those shots. I know Timmy can run the floor good for a big man but if we get in our pace he will be worn out.


Manu doesn't scare you ? I imagine he'll have at least 10 pts from the FT line alone. He's going to go off sometime soon. Maybe tonight.

As for Tim getting worn out from running the floor, I don't see that happening.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Hopefully Duncan stays aggressive and fouls Kurt Thomas out





with Kurt Thomas, the Suns can't run up and down and Spurs will win EASY

[kps0001]

Manu doesn't scare you ? I imagine he'll have at least 10 pts from the FT line alone. He's going to go off sometime soon. Maybe tonight.

As for Tim getting worn out from running the floor, I don't see that happening.


I don't know. I think if Manu goes off someone else or multple Spurs are having a subpar game. There are only so many points to go around and I don't see the Spurs scoring 111 or around there many more times in this series.

[kps0001]

Hopefully Duncan stays aggressive and fouls Kurt Thomas out





with Kurt Thomas, the Suns can't run up and down and Spurs will win EASY

Why do all of you think the Suns can't run with Thomas on the floor? It makes no sense. We don't need Thomas running the floor. We need him to grab some boards and get the ball to nash to push it up the court to find Amare or Shawn for some quick transition dunks. We don't need all 5 guys running the floor.

[dreamcastrocks]

Hopefully Duncan stays aggressive and fouls Kurt Thomas out

with Kurt Thomas, the Suns can't run up and down and Spurs will win EASY

This makes no sense at all. First of all, Duncan is not that much faster up the court than Thomas.

Second, not all 5 players run up the court on the Suns fast break. Thomas will be key in STARTING the fast break by grabbing defensive rebounds and passing a good outlet to Nash.

Third, even with Thomas fouls out, and is not on the court, the game wasn't decided until the very end anyway. You can't honestly believe that the Spurs are going to win this game easily do you?

edit, good stuff kps.

[mavsfan1000]

Why do all of you think the Suns can't run with Thomas on the floor? It makes no sense. We don't need Thomas running the floor. We need him to grab some boards and get the ball to nash to push it up the court to find Amare or Shawn for some quick transition dunks. We don't need all 5 guys running the floor.
Yep and James Jones is almost useless in this series. He was out there for defense but he is not big enough to guard Duncan. Phoenix still has Diaw and Barbosa coming off the bench. I thought they should've done this in the first game as well.

[dreamcastrocks]

Yep and James Jones is almost useless in this series. He was out there for defense but he is not big enough to guard Duncan. Phoenix still has Diaw and Barbosa coming off the bench. I thought they should've done this in the first game as well.

He does a good job guarding Horry, so he is not completely useless.
He just can't hit a 3 with a defender in his face.

[ducks]

That's an interesting stat that I didn't know about.

Thanks
you are welcome

[bonesinaz]

He's springing a trap on the Spurs. They'll never see the shut down defense coming. Spurs will be lucky to get to 90 after D'Antoni tells his team before the game to "play defense", "play hard on defense", and "hustle on the defensive end". When you're that great of a coach that's all it takes.

You forgot "swarming defense"