Thwarted terrorist attack in NJ

[Crookshanks]

I've waited all day to see if anyone would post this - no one has. How sad that we have PAGES and PAGES of idiotic posts about 9/11 conspiracies, yet no one thought this news was important.

This hit very close to home for me because my son is stationed at McGuire AFB and it is encompassed by Fort Dix. When I heard the news this morning - my heart dropped into my stomach!
-------------------------

Fort Dix Terror Plot Foiled
FBI: New Jersey jihadists targeted servicemen at Army base
MAY 8--A group of Islamic radicals conspired to kill U.S. servicemen at New Jersey's Fort Dix Army base, but the plot was disrupted when the FBI infiltrated the cell with two paid informants. The terror plan is detailed in the below FBI affidavit, which was filed today in U.S. District Court in Camden, where the six plotters have been charged with planning to kill military members. According to the affidavit, investigators began probing the cell last January, when a video store worker contacted them after a customer brought a DVD to be duplicated. The DVD showed 10 young men "Shooting assault weapons at a firing range in a militia-like style while calling for jihad and shouting in Arabic 'Allah Akbar' ('God is Great')." Within six months, the FBI had placed two cooperating witnesses within the terror cell, and both recorded meetings and phone conversations with the plotters. Along with eyeing Fort Dix, members of the group allegedly surveilled the Lakehurst Naval Air Engineering Station and Fort Monmouth in New Jersey, Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, and a Coast Guard building in Philadelphia. They also reportedly considered an attack timed to the annual Army-Navy college football game in Philadelphia. One of the charged conspirators, Serdar Tatar, was familiar with Fort Dix because his family owns a pizzeria nearby and he had delivered food there. Tatar allegedly obtained a map of the military base and provided it to his cohorts. The wannabe jihadists often viewed terror training videos, clips featuring Osama bin Laden, and a tape containing the last will and testament of at least two of the 9/11 hijackers. They also viewed tapes depicting armed attacks on U.S. military personnel and erupted in laughter when one plotter noted that a Marine's arm was blown off in one such ambush. The affidavit notes that the group recently trained at a firing range in the Poconos (where they rented a house in Gouldsboro, Pennsylvania). In a conversation recorded last month by one FBI informant, alleged conspirator Dritan Duka spoke about the need for secrecy. "I got five kids so I don't wanna go down," said Duka, who added that were he to be caught, people might think, "I'm a terrorist." (20 pages)

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, just heard about it. Scary stuff.

[boutons_]

Sounds like good old gumshoe work, hard, tedious, patience.

I wonder how much of the nastiness in the Patriot Act, etc was used?

In doesn't matter. dubya/dickhead/gonzo will soon exploiting this affair to say the Exec cannot assure NatSec without a lot more more unbridled, unmonitored access by the Exec to US citizens' private lives.

Of course, much of the info so obtained willl be used by Rove/RNC for Repug partisan advancement.

[clambake]

Good detective work. The army couldn't keep these guys from following us home.

[BIG IRISH]

I wonder why the following comment from one of the alleged terrorist was not included in the above?

One defendant, Eljvir Duka, was recorded as saying: "In the end, when it comes to defending your religion, when someone ... attacks your religion, your way of life, then you go jihad."

[exstatic]

Good detective work. The army couldn't keep these guys from following us home.
They're mostly (4 of 6) from the former Yugoslavia, and one is a US citizen. Two have "green cards". All are stupid. They were busted out by a gun store clerk when they asked him to transfer some tape to DVD. Bunch of guys firing automatic waepons and screaming "Allah Akbar!!". MENSA is not in the cards for these 'tards, I think. The clerk contacted authorities, and they infiltrated. Lucky break. One of them had easy access to Ft. Dix, via his father's pizza shop delivery service.

No good deed goes unpunished. We stop the Serbs from wasting these fucks and this is the thanks we get.

[George Gervin's Afro]

But,but I thought the Iraq war going to keep the terrorists from fighting us in the streets of New York? :rolleyes


On a side note I'm glad that people are on the lookout for charachters like these dudes. I believe the best defense we have is Joe Public stepping up and taking notice.

[BackStabber]

Bad poll numbers is why this is being reported.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sounds like good old gumshoe work, hard, tedious, patience.

I wonder how much of the nastiness in the Patriot Act, etc was used?

In doesn't matter. dubya/dickhead/gonzo will soon exploiting this affair to say the Exec cannot assure NatSec without a lot more more unbridled, unmonitored access by the Exec to US citizens' private lives.

Of course, much of the info so obtained willl be used by Rove/RNC for Repug partisan advancement.


boutons, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I am 100% confident in saying you are the dumbest son of a bitch on this board.

[Extra Stout]

Well of course this goes back on Bill Clinton.

[White Goodman]

.We stop the Serbs from wasting these fucks and this is the thanks we get.

Where those 4 came from, there are thousands more...its sad that its not getting any media coverage. You can go to youtube, and find videos of these "types" going through training drills somewhere in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and probably in Albania.

[boutons_]

Aggie, "nice take on the discussion".

[Nbadan]

Some legal experts say 'not so fast'


Wary of a number of federal anti-terror cases that proved to be overblown, two legal experts cautioned about attaching too much significance to Tuesday's arrest of six Muslims for plotting to attack Fort Dix.

The federal government's strategy to aggressively intervene early with any suspected terrorism plot, no matter how small, has sometimes resulted in prosecutions that failed to live up to their initial billing.

"The fact is that most of those arrested (in the past) are small fry and wannabes," said Daniel Benjamin, a terrorism expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington. "That's a reflection of the fact that al-Qaida has a hard time getting people in here and has higher priorities."

Federal prosecutors in New Jersey were quick to note that the six men arrested Tuesday — all from the former Yugoslavia and the Middle East — had no known ties to international terrorists. The arrests were initially announced from the White House, attaching a significance that implied it was more than a homegrown conspiracy.

Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/4787622.html)

Show me one that did. I can't think of a single case.

[whottt]

Don't those idiots know Jersey voted Appeas...er I mean Democrat?

[ChumpDumper]

The federal government's strategy to aggressively intervene early with any suspected terrorism plot, no matter how small, has sometimes resulted in prosecutions that failed to live up to their initial billing.15 months wasn't enough time to determine the threat here?

[johnsmith]

It's clear that Dan and Boutons wish these people would have managed to finish off their plot, so that they could say "I told you so".

[01Snake]

It's clear that Dan and Boutons wish these people would have managed to finish off their plot, so that they could say "I told you so".

Exactly

[boutons_]

"wish these people would have managed to finish off their plot"

"I told you so".

what's clear is that you motherfucking right-wingers spew nothing but lies and slime because you don't have a point or a case.

If the Repugs don't spin this as more justification to violate Americans' freedoms and privacy, it will be because they must know the case could turn into another fake "Miami 7" fiasco.

Or, they know the WH+Repugs are so untrusted, unbelieved, and polling in the toilet that they wil keep a low profile to avoid getting kicked in the balls yet again.

[RandomGuy]

Some legal experts say 'not so fast'

Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/4787622.html)

Show me one that did. I can't think of a single case.

From what I have seen, they have a pretty good case here, with a long train of evidence.

I will reserve judgement, but this doesn't quite look like the other cases where the gov't jumped the gun a bit.

[johnsmith]

"wish these people would have managed to finish off their plot"

"I told you so".

what's clear is that you motherfucking right-wingers spew nothing but lies and slime because you don't have a point or a case.

If the Repugs don't spin this as more justification to violate Americans' freedoms and privacy, it will be because they must know the case could turn into another fake "Miami 7" fiasco.

Or, they know the WH+Repugs are so untrusted, unbelieved, and polling in the toilet that they wil keep a low profile to avoid getting kicked in the balls yet again.



The only point that I was making was that you guys clearly are rooting for terrorists.

In fact, I don't think I've made any political points in the political forum for quite some time. Just observations in regards to Dan's 9/11 stuff (such as "Dan, you are a retard") and that you hate America.

[xrayzebra]

I am sure some on this board will want to start a defense fund
for these six people. Especially the two illegals, oooppps,
undocumented immigrants. Right boutons, I know you want to
be the first in line!

[George Gervin's Afro]

I am sure some on this board will want to start a defense fund
for these six people. Especially the two illegals, oooppps,
undocumented immigrants. Right boutons, I know you want to
be the first in line!


Hey Ray please explain how the unecessary war in Iraq would stop these types of attacks? We are fighting for our freedom there correct? We fight them there so we don't have to here? Here's your shot to tie everything together..

[xrayzebra]

Could be that Fort Dix is where Clinton put a bunch of these
folks from Kosovo when he was in office. What do you think.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Could be that Fort Dix is where Clinton put a bunch of these
folks from Kosovo when he was in office. What do you think.



You what's really wierd Ray? I was just listening to hush limpdick and he was making that strange correllation between these dudes and the Clintons. He didn't need any proof he just decided to make the same baseless claim you did..and of course the kool aid drinkers went along..

[xrayzebra]

Oh, I forgot, you must have the ability to think. Sorry. Wont
ask you to do that again.

By the way, have you PM'd boutons about the defense fund for
that bunch.

And Yeah, I heard the same thing you did. Wonder why they
picked out Fort Dix?

[Yonivore]

Hey Ray please explain how the unecessary war in Iraq would stop these types of attacks? We are fighting for our freedom there correct? We fight them there so we don't have to here? Here's your shot to tie everything together..
Okay, for the retarded, we'll rephrase the credo, "We fight them there so we don't have to fight ALL of them here."

Only a simple-minded, liberal, Bush-hating, absolutist fuckwad would fail to understand that. Hell, even Zawahiri knows why they're not being more active in the United States; it's because, most of al Qaeda's best and brightest are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So, you tell me, where would they be if not fighting us in Iraq?

[ChumpDumper]

Waiting us out in Pakistan, where many of them actually are.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Okay, for the retarded, we'll rephrase the credo, "We fight them there so we don't have to fight ALL of them here."

Only a simple-minded, liberal, Bush-hating, absolutist fuckwad would fail to understand that. Hell, even Zawahiri knows why they're not being more active in the United States; it's because, most of al Qaeda's best and brightest are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So, you tell me, where would they be if not fighting us in Iraq?


So why are Al-Qaida's ranks expanding world wide? Please explain how there are more terrorists now than before the unecessary war? The unecessary war that was supposed to stop them from coming here? Looks like another Bush failure..

So now the argument has been revised again to now being the 'best and brightest' of Al-Qaeda is in Iraq. Thanks Yoni for clearing that up..

[xrayzebra]

So why are Al-Qaida's ranks expanding world wide? Please explain how there are more terrorists now than before the unecessary war? The unecessary war that was supposed to stop them from coming here? Looks like another Bush failure..

So now the argument has been revised again to now being the 'best and brightest' of Al-Qaeda is in Iraq. Thanks Yoni for clearing that up..

So GGA, your contention is that before the Iraq war that
no war existed? Is that correct? That Iraq caused
Al Qaeda to exist? Is that correct?

Could you please expound on that theory. I want no
links, just you thoughts on why this problem with
terrorist exist.

And anyone else that wants to jump in, please feel
free to do so. I really do want to know how Bush caused
all this.

[Yonivore]

Waiting us out in Pakistan, where many of them actually are.
Waiting us out?

If we weren't in Iraq, what would they be waiting us out for?

[whottt]

So GGA, your contention is that before the Iraq war that
no war existed? Is that correct? That Iraq caused
Al Qaeda to exist? Is that correct?

Could you please expound on that theory. I want no
links, just you thoughts on why this problem with
terrorist exist.

And anyone else that wants to jump in, please feel
free to do so. I really do want to know how Bush caused
all this.



You do realize that attempting to argue with GGA is coming dangerously close to having as little common sense as he does....


Obiously, if you stick your head in the sand, there is no problem, how hard is that to figure out?


It worked for all of the 20th century...until Bush caused them to become suicide bombers.

Trying it with roaches sometime...

Pretend they aren't there, and watch how they disappear. It works...it really does.

Killing them only causes more roaches!

[ChumpDumper]

Waiting us out?

If we weren't in Iraq, what would they be waiting us out for?Are you saying they aren't there?

[George Gervin's Afro]

So GGA, your contention is that before the Iraq war that
no war existed? Is that correct? That Iraq caused
Al Qaeda to exist? Is that correct?

Could you please expound on that theory. I want no
links, just you thoughts on why this problem with
terrorist exist.

And anyone else that wants to jump in, please feel
free to do so. I really do want to know how Bush caused
all this.

You want to know why terrorisms exists?
There a fanatics that want the world under a strict Islamic rule and will do anything to kill or convert all infidels. They want to kill all Isrealis and Americans and convert everyone else.

Maybe you, Yoni and Whott ain't so bright but IRAQ is doing nothing to alleviate the problem. Sorry I want to caveat this statement: According to Yoni we are killing the best and brightest of al-qaeda in Iraq..

Now on to the unecessary war.
Well ray IF Iraq is a part of the war on terror yet the people who want to kill us aren't there nor were they ther prior to the war. So since we decided to try this liberation experiment/nation building trist their numbers have increased. SINCE THE WAR STARTED THEIR NUMBERS HAVE INCREASED. You can choose to play stupid and ask me more unrelated questions but you cannot argue with this. This is fact!

[George Gervin's Afro]

You do realize that attempting to argue with GGA is coming dangerously close to having as little common sense as he does....


Obiously, if you stick your head in the sand, there is no problem, how hard is that to figure out?


It worked for all of the 20th century...until Bush caused them to become suicide bombers.

Trying it with roaches sometime...

Pretend they aren't there, and watch how they disappear. It works...it really does.

Killing them only causes more roaches!

I will give you credit Whott I like your cockroach analogy but like terrorists you can't kill them all so what's next? More liberation experiments?

[RandomGuy]

You do realize that attempting to argue with GGA is coming dangerously close to having as little common sense as he does....


Obiously, if you stick your head in the sand, there is no problem, how hard is that to figure out?


It worked for all of the 20th century...until Bush caused them to become suicide bombers.

Trying it with roaches sometime...

Pretend they aren't there, and watch how they disappear. It works...it really does.

Killing them only causes more roaches!

Bad analogy.

Roaches reproduce through laying eggs.

Religious fanatics reproduce through convincing others to become fanatics through propaganda.

More propaganda=more fanatics

I will ask you:

Has the Iraq war provided Al Qaeda with propaganda they can use to recruit new members?

[RandomGuy]

Since I know you won't answer that honestly, I will do it for you:

Yes, Iraq has provided Al-Qaeda with a propaganda bonanza.

We are not killing the roaches, we are feeding them.

[whottt]

Prove to me there are more terrorists now...

I can certainly prove there are more dead ones...

[xrayzebra]

You want to know why terrorisms exists?
There a fanatics that want the world under a strict Islamic rule and will do anything to kill or convert all infidels. They want to kill all Isrealis and Americans and convert everyone else.

Maybe you, Yoni and Whott ain't so bright but IRAQ is doing nothing to alleviate the problem. Sorry I want to caveat this statement: According to Yoni we are killing the best and brightest of al-qaeda in Iraq..

Now on to the unecessary war.
Well ray IF Iraq is a part of the war on terror yet the people who want to kill us aren't there nor were they ther prior to the war. So since we decided to try this liberation experiment/nation building trist their numbers have increased. SINCE THE WAR STARTED THEIR NUMBERS HAVE INCREASED. You can choose to play stupid and ask me more unrelated questions but you cannot argue with this. This is fact!

So lets take this one step at a time:

We didn't have five embassies bombed?

We didn't have a barracks in Saudi Arabia bombed?

We didn't have the WTC bombed twice?

We didn't have a plot to take down planes over the
pacific?

We didn't have a nightclub bombed in Germany?

We didn't have bombs planted in England?

We didn't have bombs planted in Spain?

We don't have terrorist operating in Yemen?

We don't have terrorist operating in the Philippines?

You are saying that all the above happened because
of an unnecessary war in Iraq.

Oh, and lets not forgot the former Yugoslavia. You
know Kosovo.

Where would you like to start to stop these folks. In
downtown San Antonio at the Alamo?

Want to tell me?

[whottt]

Since I know you won't answer that honestly, I will do it for you:

Yes, Iraq has provided Al-Qaeda with a propaganda bonanza.

We are not killing the roaches, we are feeding them.


I don't see it that way at all...

There always going to be stupid people that get in the way...

You know, like women who fall in love with jailed serial killers...

So any casue is going to attract some pct of idiots...


There always going to be idiots...

However, when it becomes possible for the roaches to nuke us, and there are leaders seeking and willing to provide that tech to those roaches?

You most definitely can get rid of those leaders...




I want you to give me a link that proves there are more terrorists now than there were before Iraq...

Prove it...

Otherwise you are nothing more than propaganda...

And you say the exact same thing Usama says....

[whottt]

Funny how Syria, Saudi, Iran and Pakistan don't have roach issues...


If these guys are so fucking tough, how come they couldn't rid of Saddam?



Stop bending over and spreading ass cheeks for a bunch of tin pot dictator wannabes.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I've waited all day to see if anyone would post this - no one has. How sad that we have PAGES and PAGES of idiotic posts about 9/11 conspiracies, yet no one thought this news was important.

you obviously thought it was important. why didn't you post it sooner instead of waiting to see if somebody else did first? jackass

[George Gervin's Afro]

So lets take this one step at a time:

We didn't have five embassies bombed?

We didn't have a barracks in Saudi Arabia bombed?

We didn't have the WTC bombed twice?

We didn't have a plot to take down planes over the
pacific?

We didn't have a nightclub bombed in Germany?

We didn't have bombs planted in England?

We didn't have bombs planted in Spain?

We don't have terrorist operating in Yemen?

We don't have terrorist operating in the Philippines?

You are saying that all the above happened because
of an unnecessary war in Iraq.

Oh, and lets not forgot the former Yugoslavia. You
know Kosovo.

Where would you like to start to stop these folks. In
downtown San Antonio at the Alamo?

Want to tell me?


So what does Iraq have to do with any of those incidences? We are talking about Iraq ray! Please don't tell me your one of those "well at least we're doing something" crowd.

[xrayzebra]

^^I am asking you where do we draw the line?

[George Gervin's Afro]

I don't see it that way at all...

There always going to be stupid people that get in the way...

You know, like women who fall in love with jailed serial killers...

So any casue is going to attract some pct of idiots...


There always going to be idiots...

However, when it becomes possible for the roaches to nuke us, and there are leaders seeking and willing to provide that tech to those roaches?

You most definitely can get rid of those leaders...




I want you to give me a link that proves there are more terrorists now than there were before Iraq...

Prove it...

Otherwise you are nothing more than propaganda...

And you say the exact same thing Usama says....


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/world/middleeast/24terror.html?ei=5088&emc=rs&en=da252be85d1b39fa&ex=1316750400&partner=rssnyt


Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terrorism Threat
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By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: September 24, 2006
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.


The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington involved in preparing the assessment or who have read the final document.

The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by United States intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled “Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States,’’ it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.

An opening section of the report, “Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement,” cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of jihad ideology.

The report “says that the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse,” said one American intelligence official.

More than a dozen United States government officials and outside experts were interviewed for this article, and all spoke only on condition of anonymity because they were discussing a classified intelligence document. The officials included employees of several government agencies, and both supporters and critics of the Bush administration. All of those interviewed had either seen the final version of the document or participated in the creation of earlier drafts. These officials discussed some of the document’s general conclusions but not details, which remain highly classified.

Officials with knowledge of the intelligence estimate said it avoided specific judgments about the likelihood that terrorists would once again strike on United States soil. The relationship between the Iraq war and terrorism, and the question of whether the United States is safer, have been subjects of persistent debate since the war began in 2003.

National Intelligence Estimates are the most authoritative documents that the intelligence community produces on a specific national security issue, and are approved by John D. Negroponte, director of national intelligence. Their conclusions are based on analysis of raw intelligence collected by all of the spy agencies.

Analysts began working on the estimate in 2004, but it was not finalized until this year. Part of the reason was that some government officials were unhappy with the structure and focus of earlier versions of the document, according to officials involved in the discussion.

Previous drafts described actions by the United States government that were determined to have stoked the jihad movement, like the indefinite detention of prisoners at Guantánamo Bay and the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal, and some policy makers argued that the intelligence estimate should be more focused on specific steps to mitigate the terror threat. It is unclear whether the final draft of the intelligence estimate criticizes individual policies of the United States, but intelligence officials involved in preparing the document said its conclusions were not softened or massaged for political purposes.

Frederick Jones, a White House spokesman, said the White House “played no role in drafting or reviewing the judgments expressed in the National Intelligence Estimate on terrorism.” The estimate’s judgments confirm some predictions of a National Intelligence Council report completed in January 2003, two months before the Iraq invasion. That report stated that the approaching war had the potential to increase support for political Islam worldwide and could increase support for some terrorist objectives.

Documents released by the White House timed to coincide with the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks emphasized the successes that the United States had made in dismantling the top tier of Al Qaeda.

“Since the Sept. 11 attacks, America and its allies are safer, but we are not yet safe,” concludes one, a report titled “9/11 Five Years Later: Success and Challenges.” “We have done much to degrade Al Qaeda and its affiliates and to undercut the perceived legitimacy of terrorism.”

That document makes only passing mention of the impact the Iraq war has had on the global jihad movement. “The ongoing fight for freedom in Iraq has been twisted by terrorist propaganda as a rallying cry,” it states.

The report mentions the possibility that Islamic militants who fought in Iraq could return to their home countries, “exacerbating domestic conflicts or fomenting radical ideologies.

On Wednesday, the Republican-controlled House Intelligence Committee released a more ominous report about the terrorist threat. That assessment, based entirely on unclassified documents, details a growing jihad movement and says, “Al Qaeda leaders wait patiently for the right opportunity to attack.”


The new National Intelligence Estimate was overseen by David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats, who commissioned it in 2004 after he took up his post at the National Intelligence Council. Mr. Low declined to be interviewed for this article.

The estimate concludes that the radical Islamic movement has expanded from a core of Qaeda operatives and affiliated groups to include a new class of “self-generating” cells inspired by Al Qaeda’s leadership but without any direct connection to Osama bin Laden or his top lieutenants.

It also examines how the Internet has helped spread jihadist ideology, and how cyberspace has become a haven for terrorist operatives who no longer have geographical refuges in countries like Afghanistan.

In early 2005, the National Intelligence Council released a study concluding that Iraq had become the primary training ground for the next generation of terrorists, and that veterans of the Iraq war might ultimately overtake Al Qaeda’s current leadership in the constellation of the global jihad leadership.

But the new intelligence estimate is the first report since the war began to present a comprehensive picture about the trends in global terrorism.

In recent months, some senior American intelligence officials have offered glimpses into the estimate’s conclusions in public speeches.

“New jihadist networks and cells, sometimes united by little more than their anti-Western agendas, are increasingly likely to emerge,” said Gen. Michael V. Hayden, during a speech in San Antonio in April, the month that the new estimate was completed. “If this trend continues, threats to the U.S. at home and abroad will become more diverse and that could lead to increasing attacks worldwide,” said the general, who was then Mr. Negroponte’s top deputy and is now director of the Central Intelligence Agency.

For more than two years, there has been tension between the Bush administration and American spy agencies over the violence in Iraq and the prospects for a stable democracy in the country. Some intelligence officials have said the White House has consistently presented a more optimistic picture of the situation in Iraq than justified by intelligence reports from the field.

Spy agencies usually produce several national intelligence estimates each year on a variety of subjects. The most controversial of these in recent years was an October 2002 document assessing Iraq’s illicit weapons programs. Several government investigations have discredited that report, and the intelligence community is overhauling how it analyzes data, largely as a result of those investigations.

The broad judgments of the new intelligence estimate are consistent with assessments of global terrorist threats by American allies and independent terrorism experts.

The panel investigating the London terrorist bombings of July 2005 reported in May that the leaders of Britain’s domestic and international intelligence services, MI5 and MI6, “emphasized to the committee the growing scale of the Islamist terrorist threat.”

[B]More recently, the Council on Global Terrorism, an independent research group of respected terrorism experts, assigned a grade of “D+” to United States efforts over the past five years to combat Islamic extremism. The council concluded that “there is every sign that radicalization in the Muslim world is spreading rather than shrinking.”

[xrayzebra]

The "New York Times" Hey give us a credible news source, okay?

[George Gervin's Afro]

^^I am asking you where do we draw the line?


Well in hindsight I don't know. I am all about being on the offensive but can we at least be smart about it? What I do know is you don't take actions that could make things worse than they already are.

[George Gervin's Afro]

The "New York Times" Hey give us a credible news source, okay?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6610345.stm

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/17145574.htm

[xrayzebra]

^^I said credible? BBC and New York Times........holy smokes

[George Gervin's Afro]

^^I said credible? BBC and New York Times........holy smokes


http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1531729,00.html

[xrayzebra]

You want to know why terrorisms exists?
There a fanatics that want the world under a strict Islamic rule and will do anything to kill or convert all infidels. They want to kill all Isrealis and Americans and convert everyone else.

Maybe you, Yoni and Whott ain't so bright but IRAQ is doing nothing to alleviate the problem. Sorry I want to caveat this statement: According to Yoni we are killing the best and brightest of al-qaeda in Iraq..

Now on to the unecessary war.
Well ray IF Iraq is a part of the war on terror yet the people who want to kill us aren't there nor were they ther prior to the war. So since we decided to try this liberation experiment/nation building trist their numbers have increased. SINCE THE WAR STARTED THEIR NUMBERS HAVE INCREASED. You can choose to play stupid and ask me more unrelated questions but you cannot argue with this. This is fact!

So you will admit that they want to kill us because we
are Americans. Even though we have many Muslims in
this country and let them worship freely, without interference, and in their own way/fashion. As we do
with all religions, even some I don't have any idea how
you can call them religions. But to each his own.

And your contention is that had we not invaded Iraq
their numbers would have remained the same or possibly
have decreased. Okay, so lets say your thoughts are
correct. Would their attacks on us have stopped,
decreased, remained the same or should we have just
accepted their hate for us and accepted their attacks
and death of our citizens. I mean, like they killed
how many in their attacks. How many being killed did it take to
start WWII. And how many have we had killed by
AQ. And don't forget one thing, we are in the country
that "also" harbored them and fighting them. Should
we abandoned that country also. You know since we
are more than likely creating more terrorist there.

[RandomGuy]

Prove to me there are more terrorists now...

I can certainly prove there are more dead ones...

Read the declassified portions of the recent National Intelligence Estimates prepared for the President.

The phrase they used was "cause celebre".

Their conclusions are that the groups are becoming more diffuse, and more widespread.

Iraq has completely failed in its stated goal of "fighting terrorism".

Didn't find WMDs
Didn't hurt the terrorists that hate us.

Sure we have killed a bunch of the f***ers, but we have convinced a whole hell of a lot of people that we are evil.

I am not saying that isn't twisted, but that is the growing perception of the US. It is a reality whether we wish it otherwise.

[RandomGuy]

The "New York Times" Hey give us a credible news source, okay?
http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/Declassified_NIE_Key_Judgments.pdf

How about the document they are reading from?

"The Iraq conflict has become a 'cause celebre' for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the muslim world..."

Read it yourself.

[RandomGuy]

This whole thing is a battle of ideas, not weapons or even killing.

We are losing that battle of ideas, and Iraq plays a HUGE part of that.

This is not some silly "anti-american" rant, this is simply a cold-hard assessment of perceptions of the US.

The suck thing is that when we leave that will be seen as their "winning" no matter what the reality on the ground is, but if we stay that "proves" we are Imperialistic.

This whole thing has been lose/lose from the beginning.

[johnsmith]

This whole thing is a battle of ideas, not weapons or even killing.

We are losing that battle of ideas, and Iraq plays a HUGE part of that.

This is not some silly "anti-american" rant, this is simply a cold-hard assessment of perceptions of the US.

The suck thing is that when we leave that will be seen as their "winning" no matter what the reality on the ground is, but if we stay that "proves" we are Imperialistic.

This whole thing has been lose/lose from the beginning.


See, but that's a legitimate, intelligent sounding argument. Totally opposite of the way Boutons comes across.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Dirka dirka jihad

[Trainwreck2100]

seriously these guys were morons, doesn't our gas money pay for their terrorist schools.

[whottt]

the question is, why is our fbi arming and training terrorist cells?


For the same reason anti-virus companies make viruses?

[RandomGuy]

the question is, why is our fbi arming and training terrorist cells?

The answer is:

They aren't.

[RandomGuy]

See, but that's a legitimate, intelligent sounding argument. Totally opposite of the way Boutons comes across.

Thank you.

I try to read enough to offer informed opinions of things, and try to keep my mouth shut when it is something out of my area of interest/expertise.

[Nbadan]

Shades of Miami...


He railed against the United States, helped scout out military installations for attack, offered to introduce his comrades to an arms dealer, and gave them a list of weapons he could procure, including machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades.

These were not the actions of a terrorist, but of a paid FBI informant who helped bring down an alleged plot by six Muslim men to massacre U.S. soldiers at New Jersey's Fort Dix.

And those actions have raised questions of whether the government crossed the line and pushed the six men down a path they would not have otherwise followed.

It is an argument - entrapment - that has been made in other terrorism cases, and one that has failed miserably in this post-Sept. 11 era.

One defense attorney on the case, Troy Archie, said no decision has been made on whether to argue entrapment, but based on the FBI's own account, ``the guys sort of led them on.''

The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6623836,00.html)

[xrayzebra]

Hey dan and boutons and GGA, have you all
started your legal defense fund yet for the
Fort Dix Six?