Spurs vs. Suns Game 2 - Grades

[timvp]

Tim Duncan
Duncan's stats look nice (29 points, 11 rebounds and two blocks) but he wasn't nearly as effective as he was in Game 1. The main problem is that he wasn't quarterbacking nearly as well from the low block. Part of the issue was that the Suns weren't sending double teams right away and that made it tougher to pass. Duncan's defense also wasn't where it needs to be. It was a good effort but the faults were magnified by his teammates not showing up.
Grade: B


Manu Ginobili
Ginobili has to start scoring for the Spurs, especially in a series against the Suns. Rebounds, assists, steals and everything else is fine, but the Spurs offense needs some punch from their regular season leader in points per minute. He shot 3-for-9 from the field and didn't get to the free throw line. Something needs to change because the Spurs won't win this series if Ginobili is only hitting a third of his shots.
Grade: C


Tony Parker
As good and as aggressive as he was in Game 1, he came out the opposite in Game 2. He had no aggressiveness about himself whatsoever and seemed not ready to play. I'm not sure what the issue was but it was night and day. Parker has to be aggressive in this series and look to score. Doing so will open things up for his teammates. It was just a bad game overall from the Spurs point guard.
Grade: D


Bruce Bowen
Bowen's offense was clicking, but he hasn't been able to make his mark on this series at the defensive end of the court. He hasn't shown to be able to do anything special against Nash. And unlike Game 1, Bowen wasn't a factor on the glass. Bowen has to bring more than just corner three-pointers to the table. And the coaching staff has to figure out quickly whether Bowen on Nash accomplishes anything.
Grade: C


Francisco Elson
Elson, like usual, was a bag of mystery. He had a few good moments, but at other times had some big mistakes. His missed dunk hurt the Spurs and he had a couple poor defensive possessions against Stoudemire. The Spurs need more out of their starting center.
Grade: C


Michael Finley
Finley's back tightened up before the game but he ended up playing decently well. Not comparable to his last few playoff games, but he was adequate. He finished with 11 points and hit half of his three-pointers. His defense needs to picked up a notch and a couple more rebounds wouldn't hurt.
Grade: C+


Brent Barry
Barry has gotten a pass so far in the playoffs, but the Spurs needed him this game and he delivered a donut. Zero points in 15 minutes wasn't exactly what the coaching staff had in mind when they inserted him into the lineup. He doesn't do enough defensively to warrant staying on the court if he's not going produce offensively.
Grade: D+


Fabricio Oberto
Oberto started off strong but then his play got progressively worse. By the end of the game, the bad far outweighed the good. His defense, rebounding and passing weren't good when the Spurs were trying to make their run. The Spurs need him to play much better and more consistently in every facet.
Grade: C-


Robert Horry
Horry didn't seem to have the energy that he had in other games. However, it would have been nice to see a little more of him. He was a +4 when he was on the court, so a couple more minutes probably wouldn't have hurt. But he seemed a step slow compared to other nights.
Grade: C


Jacque Vaughn
Vaughn had a better game than he had in Game 1, but he was still pretty horrible. He missed all three of his shots, didn't score and handed out only one assists. As has been the case all playoffs, he gets himself in trouble when he tries to do too much. And it doesn't help his cause that the Suns double team off of him the moment he enters the game.
Grade: C


Pop
The Spurs just didn't look like they wanted it enough. With a win, the Spurs could have essentially ended the series. Instead, San Antonio came out flat and almost seemed to be disinterested and satisfied with the split. The blame for that has to start with the head coach. Pop failed to make much of an adjustment to Kurt Thomas being inserted into the starting lineup. Also, putting Bowen on Nash doesn't seem to be paying many dividends at the moment -- instead it appears to be freeing Raja Bell up to score more with a smaller player on him. Additionally, if Vaughn isn't going to be able to knock down a shot, playing Ginobili or Barry at backup point has to be considered.
Grade: D+

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

You lied to me, LJ.

[DDS4]

Even though we allowed less points in game 2, the defense was more pathetic.

Team played like they were happy to get game 1.

[kris]

Timvp - what's your analysis of Kurt Thomas' defense of Tim one on one? Was Duncan just being outmuscled, fouled, or outplayed?

What do the Spurs do if the Suns are able to guard him straight up with Thomas?

Duncan did make a few baskets on him, but they seemed very low probability. However, earlier in the game he seemed much more comfortable.

Your take?

[whottt]

I think we lost because the Suns learned how to play playoff D. I expect the Spurs to adjust and not take them so lightly next game. And they did take them lightly this game.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Timvp - what's your analysis of Kurt Thomas' defense of Tim one on one? Was Duncan just being outmuscled, fouled, or outplayed?

What do the Spurs do if the Suns are able to guard him straight up with Thomas?

Duncan did make a few baskets on him, but they seemed very low probability. However, earlier in the game he seemed much more comfortable.

Your take?


well TD did shoot for 12-20 but then again he was hittin some crazy shots in the third qtr.


LJ. you HAVE to give Elson an F. the only thing he did right all night was that block before halftime. His missed dunk led to a 3 point play at the other end of the court. I also though Duncan deserved an A-, he was insane in that third quarter and arguably had the best quarter for any player in this entire playoffs (though I think Baron Davis's 2nd quarter against Utah the other night warranta a mention)

Barry was useless, and you need to be harsher on manu. enough is enough, dude is struggling and needs to be called out for it.


By the way, Parker said he bruised his elbow after that Barbosa undercut, and that it was effecting his shot the rest of th enight but he simply didn't bring it tonight.


Anyways, it is always a pleasure to read these things, and we still got the split at the end of the day, now let's hope we protect our own homecourt in games 3 and 4 :tu

[timvp]

What do the Spurs do if the Suns are able to guard him straight up with Thomas?

Lose the series.

Duncan has to destroy single coverage to where the Suns have to double him. If he doesn't, the Spurs will struggle too much to score. Luckily, Duncan has had some dominant stretches this year so I have faith in him.

But this is the worst possible situation the Spurs could find themselves in against the Suns. If the Spurs lost a shootout, that'd be fine because the Spurs' defense will always be there at the end of the day.

But losing because the Suns locked you down is a bad sign because you can't stop the Suns from scoring. They are good enough offensively that they'll get their 100 points no matter how well you play them.

Props to D'Antoni for playing Thomas. That move just changed the entire outlook of the series. The Spurs went from a likely 4 or 5 game series to an all out war.

[aaronstampler]

I think the grades are too generous, down the line. Maybe Tim's is fair. Pop deserves an F- and this is the worst game Tony played for us in a long, long time. He had no idea what he was doing and it was a piss poor job of leading the team.

Unfortunately it seems that if Tony doesn't have it going Pop is just going to call 4 down every time. That's not how we did things in '05.

[kris]

Did I make it up or did Duncan's production come to a screeching halt around mid third quarter?

I loved the 1-2 quarter retro display and the numbers to match, but the Spurs needed 50 from him tonight. No one but Bruce was even a bright spot.

[timvp]

Unfortunately it seems that if Tony doesn't have it going Pop is just going to call 4 down every time. That's not how we did things in '05.

Who was the last team to throw single teams at Duncan? Duncan with one defender > any other offensive option.

[team-work]

It seems the loss is more due to a lack of effort rather than the Suns's adjustments e.g. putting K Thomas on TD.

The Spurs usually responds to a playoff loss (including a blowout) with a better game. Every player needs to step up.

Which I hope for in Game 3 (and other upcoming games) will amount to victories.

[aaronstampler]

Lose the series.

Duncan has to destroy single coverage to where the Suns have to double him. If he doesn't, the Spurs will struggle too much to score. Luckily, Duncan has had some dominant stretches this year so I have faith in him.

But this is the worst possible situation the Spurs could find themselves in against the Suns. If the Spurs lost a shootout, that'd be fine because the Spurs' defense will always be there at the end of the day.

But losing because the Suns locked you down is a bad sign because you can't stop the Suns from scoring. They are good enough offensively that they'll get their 100 points no matter how well you play them.

Props to D'Antoni for playing Thomas. That move just changed the entire outlook of the series. The Spurs went from a likely 4 or 5 game series to an all out war.

I think the 3rd quarter showed that they don't give a fuck how many points Tim scores. Even if he's hot as hell he's only going to get 2 at a time, sometimes even less if they foul him and he misses FTs. If Tim is the only guy scoring it means we're not hitting 3s, we're not getting the other guys involved, and as I've said a 100 times, stagnant offense leads to stagnant defense. If guys don't have the feel for the ball in their hands, their play will get lazier and less energetic on defense too. This was the '01 Spurs I saw out there today and I fucking hated it.

[boutons_]

"Who was the last team to throw single teams at Duncan?"

Malone in the 04 playoffs?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Why Tim always goes middle when the drop-step is there I will never know, but that's what he does. He hit some amazing shots tonight. IMHO he was the only one who turned up.


San Antonio came out flat and almost seemed to be disinterested and satisfied with the split.

Timvp nailed it with that comment, minus the word "almost".

Is it time to start Manu (to see if he can produce something, anything offensively), switch Bowen to Marion and Parker to Nash (he did very well against AI), and forget Vaughn altogether? I'd start out game 3 with the same rotation, and if it's not working try some new things in the second half.

[kris]

I think the 3rd quarter showed that they don't give a fuck how many points Tim scores. Even if he's hot as hell he's only going to get 2 at a time, sometimes even less if they foul him and he misses FTs. If Tim is the only guy scoring it means we're not hitting 3s, we're not getting the other guys involved, and as I've said a 100 times, stagnant offense leads to stagnant defense. If guys don't have the feel for the ball in their hands, their play will get lazier and less energetic on defense too. This was the '01 Spurs I saw out there today and I fucking hated it.

They do care how hot he is, but if Duncan is going to let himself get guarded by Thomas then the Suns have no reason to double team him.

[aaronstampler]

We had this exact same philosophy with Amare in '05. Score 50 points we don't care cos nobody else is getting shit.

[baseline bum]

Who was the last team to throw single teams at Duncan?

The '99 Knicks. Worked out great for them.

[kris]

We had this exact same philosophy with Amare in '05. Score 50 points we don't care cos nobody else is getting shit.


If Duncan is schooling whoever is guarding him one on one every play and gets 40+, the Suns are in trouble. They will be forced to double. But if Duncan can't score and passes to a bad shot or misses himself, that just fuels the Phoenix break.

[aaronstampler]

If Duncan is schooling whoever is guarding him one on one every play and gets 40+, the Suns are in trouble. They will be forced to double. But if Duncan can't score and passes to a bad shot or misses himself, that just fuels the Phoenix break.

Why be forced to double? He scored 15 in the 3rd and we didn't make up a single point on them. If he has it every single possession, eventually he'll fatigue, plus our defense will suffer from lack of energy/focus.

Duncan is no different than our other players, he has to score in the flow of the offense, he can't BE the entire offense.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I think the 3rd quarter showed that they don't give a fuck how many points Tim scores. Even if he's hot as hell he's only going to get 2 at a time, sometimes even less if they foul him and he misses FTs. If Tim is the only guy scoring it means we're not hitting 3s, we're not getting the other guys involved, and as I've said a 100 times, stagnant offense leads to stagnant defense. If guys don't have the feel for the ball in their hands, their play will get lazier and less energetic on defense too. This was the '01 Spurs I saw out there today and I fucking hated it.

On that, during the Nuggets series and game 1 Duncan got a lot of layups off Parker/Ginobili penetration-and-dumps. Tonight he didn't have one, he had to make it all happen himself. That is a problem.

We largely gave up on penetration tonight and it hurt us gravely.

I would really like to know why Ginobili won't go right, because I know he can, he used to do it (in his heyday, c2005) about 20% of the time (these days <1%!). Also, he was hot in March, his stroke looked beautiful and he hit something like 46% of his 3s... wtf happened???

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Too many minuses for all players today. It was a TEAM LOSS.

We desperately need Manu to be a leading scorer in these games, because he's the BENCH production.

Tony seemed completely off today. I think this was the second worst playoff performance I've seen out of the Spurs so far. Stagnated offense. Lazy hustle after one Phoenix score. At least one or two player on the floor played without heart.

And now there's about 4 DAYS to sit on this Spurs loss. :lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Why be forced to double? He scored 15 in the 3rd and we didn't make up a single point on them. If he has it every single possession, eventually he'll fatigue, plus our defense will suffer from lack of energy/focus.

Duncan is no different than our other players, he has to score in the flow of the offense, he can't BE the entire offense.

Agreed. In the first half, how many broken plays did you count? And I mean broken before they started, not broken down by good D. I counted 5. Now that is very unSpurslike.

They'll be a different team in game 3.

[aaronstampler]

His confidence is shot and he's putting extra pressure on himself knowing if he doesn't make the next shot he won't get another one for 5 minutes. He just has to catch the ball and go to the hole immediately, don't wait for screens, don't wait for the offense to set up, nothing. Just go.

[baseline bum]

Tony Parker
As good and as aggressive as he was in Game 1, he came out the opposite in Game 2. He had no aggressiveness about himself whatsoever and seemed not ready to play. I'm not sure what the issue was but it was night and day. Parker has to be aggressive in this series and look to score. Doing so will open things up for his teammates. It was just a bad game overall from the Spurs point guard.
Grade: D


'eh, he just needs to get laid.

[timvp]

We had this exact same philosophy with Amare in '05. Score 50 points we don't care cos nobody else is getting shit.

If single-teaming Duncan is the answer to beating the Spurs, why does no team do it?

The answer is that Duncan can beat you by himself. Sure, the Spurs will need offense from other players, which is why Parker has to be aggressive. If Parker can get out and run and get baskets for himself and others on the break, the Spurs can go to Duncan in the half court set.

No team has ever beaten the Spurs by single-teaming Duncan all game. There's a reason for that.

You don't go away from it "to get others involved". You get easy baskets in early offense or on fast breaks. Eventually, if Duncan dominates single-teams like he usually does, the Suns will be forced to change their defense.

[greens]

I agree with most of the grades. I just don't think Tony should have gotten a D. Manu getting a C and Tony a D? I saw more effort on Tony's part in this game than in Manu...I think Tony should have gotten a C as well...And Tim was pretty solid. So I would have given Timmy an A. He was the only one playing in the fourth quarter. At one point, he had like 15 points straight for the Spurs...I think Tim was on his best tonight. Too bad the rest of the team didn't help him at all...

Overall, pretty fair grades.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Too many minuses for all players today. It was a TEAM LOSS.

We desperately need Manu to be a leading scorer in these games, because he's the BENCH production.

Tony seemed completely off today. I think this was the second worst playoff performance I've seen out of the Spurs so far. Stagnated offense. Lazy hustle after one Phoenix score. At least one or two player on the floor played without heart.

And now there's about 4 DAYS to sit on this Spurs loss. :lol

Second worst EVER? hell, 2nd worst this season, sure, but not ever. 2001 takes up places 1-4 on the list, then Nuggets game 1 (they were really bad), this game might just make the top 10, but probably not... :lol

[kris]

Why be forced to double? He scored 15 in the 3rd and we didn't make up a single point on them. If he has it every single possession, eventually he'll fatigue, plus our defense will suffer from lack of energy/focus.

Duncan is no different than our other players, he has to score in the flow of the offense, he can't BE the entire offense.

I agree that in order for the Spurs to be ultimately successful, everybody has to be a part of the offense (everybody except Vaught and Elson), but the whole Spurs premise of offense relies on Duncan drawing attention and kicking out. If Duncan can't get better shots then awkward fallaway bankshots from 12 feet against Kurt Thomas, then the Spurs are dead (reference Timvp).

If Duncan scores at will like he is supposed to (like how Sean Elliott describes the torcher chamber), then the Suns will give help. If they don't, Duncan has been vintage and aggressive enough to hang up 54 like he did when Don Nelson tried to guard him with Juwan Howard and Dirk.

[timvp]

His confidence is shot and he's putting extra pressure on himself knowing if he doesn't make the next shot he won't get another one for 5 minutes. He just has to catch the ball and go to the hole immediately, don't wait for screens, don't wait for the offense to set up, nothing. Just go.

Ginobili has had plenty of touches. Instead of trying his step-back-pump-fake-a-three move ad nauseum, he needs to get back to getting to the free throw line.

He has one real trip the line this series. That's where he made his living in 2005 ... and even last year.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Ginobili has had plenty of touches. Instead of trying his step-back-pump-fake-a-three move ad nauseum, he needs to get back to getting to the free throw line.

He has one real trip the line this series. That's where he made his living in 2005 ... and even last year.
I was surprised Manu was still averaging around 20 in his two playoff series.

I don't know why he forgot that getting to the line , and attacking the rim has ALWAYS been his bread and butter.

He should play without confidence in his jumper at all, and believe getting to the rim is the only way to do it. We need a hypnotist to remedy Manu's problem.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Second worst EVER? hell, 2nd worst this season, sure, but not ever. 2001 takes up places 1-4 on the list, then Nuggets game 1 (they were really bad), this game might just make the top 10, but probably not... :lol
:lol Well maybe the air hasn't cleared for me, to refrain from hyperboles.

[aaronstampler]

If single-teaming Duncan is the answer to beating the Spurs, why does no team do it?

The answer is that Duncan can beat you by himself. Sure, the Spurs will need offense from other players, which is why Parker has to be aggressive. If Parker can get out and run and get baskets for himself and others on the break, the Spurs can go to Duncan in the half court set.

No team has ever beaten the Spurs by single-teaming Duncan all game. There's a reason for that.

You don't go away from it "to get others involved". You get easy baskets in early offense or on fast breaks. Eventually, if Duncan dominates single-teams like he usually does, the Suns will be forced to change their defense.

The main reason I can think of, LJ, is that most coaches are just too stuck in their ways. They doubleteam the lowpost scorer because they're supposed to. Just like managers are supposed to bat the fast guy lead off, regardless of whether he can get on base well. Doubleteaming Duncan is the safe "by the book" move and nobody will rip you afterward if you do it and lose.

Also, the Suns can afford to do it because even if Duncan averages 1 point per possession, even 1.3 points, they know they're gonna score enough points to keep up. Almost any other team we play can't make that assumption. Tim simply doesn't have the physical endurance to score every time down the court against a single decent defender such as Thomas. I don't know of anyone has the stamina for such a feat.

I think the toll he had to spend on offense affected his defense because he was pretty tired and sluggish in his own end.

Ultimately I blame Pop because he calls the plays and there is no "early offense." Tony looks at him, he calls 4 down, they wait til the shot clock is at 10 to do anything and that's that. The Suns figured Tony out pretty quickly and Pop didn't have any answers.

I'm concerned because when we suck defensively we can figure shit out, but when we struggle offensively, Pop just gets more and more conservative, more and more in a shell. It's could be like '04 against the lakers.

[timvp]

The main reason I can think of, LJ, is that most coaches are just too stuck in their ways. They doubleteam the lowpost scorer because they're supposed to. Just like managers are supposed to bat the fast guy lead off, regardless of whether he can get on base well. Doubleteaming Duncan is the safe "by the book" move and nobody will rip you afterward if you do it and lose.

Also, the Suns can afford to do it because even if Duncan averages 1 point per possession, even 1.3 points, they know they're gonna score enough points to keep up. Almost any other team we play can't make that assumption. Tim simply doesn't have the physical endurance to score every time down the court against a single decent defender such as Thomas. I don't know of anyone has the stamina for such a feat.

I think the toll he had to spend on offense affected his defense because he was pretty tired and sluggish in his own end.

Ultimately I blame Pop because he calls the plays and there is no "early offense." Tony looks at him, he calls 4 down, they wait til the shot clock is at 10 to do anything and that's that. The Suns figured Tony out pretty quickly and Pop didn't have any answers.

I'm concerned because when we suck defensively we can figure shit out, but when we struggle offensively, Pop just gets more and more conservative, more and more in a shell. It's could be like '04 against the lakers.

Plenty of teams have tried to single-team Duncan. It just has never worked. If it didn't work in 2005 when Duncan had two sprained ankles, it's not going to work this year.

I'm not worried about that.

I'm more worried of others not doing enough with their touches and the defensive matches.

[cly2tw]

Someone on the Suns board posted this. Well, it's not Manu, it's Raja. :)


Here are Manu's numbers against the Suns this season:

Nov 8 - 12 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-13 from the field, 1-2 from three-point range
Feb 1 - 32 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists. 12-22 from the field, 3-8 from three-point range
Apr 5 - 7 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists. 3-11 from the field, 1-4 from three-point range
May 6 - 8 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists. 2-9 from the field, 1-3 from three-point range
May 8 - 6 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-9 from the field, 0-2 from three-point range

Overall: 13 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.8 apg. FG%: 35.9, 3pt%: 31.6

And Raja played only 11 minutes in the 2nd game because of injury, thats why Manu was able to score 32.

[timvp]

Someone on the Suns board posted this. Well, it's not Manu, it's Raja. :)


Here are Manu's numbers against the Suns this season:

Nov 8 - 12 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-13 from the field, 1-2 from three-point range
Feb 1 - 32 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists. 12-22 from the field, 3-8 from three-point range
Apr 5 - 7 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists. 3-11 from the field, 1-4 from three-point range
May 6 - 8 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists. 2-9 from the field, 1-3 from three-point range
May 8 - 6 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-9 from the field, 0-2 from three-point range

Overall: 13 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.8 apg. FG%: 35.9, 3pt%: 31.6

And Raja played only 11 minutes in the 2nd game because of injury, thats why Manu was able to score 32.

It doesn't have anything to do with Raja. Manu's struggles go back to when Steve Blake was guarding him.

And Manu has destroyed Raja before going back to his Jazz days. Raja is a good defender, but he's nothing overly special and isn't on the same level as Bowen.

[aaronstampler]

Bowen has sucked defensively these two games. Nash is going around him like a pylon. I think we should play Fin and Manu together more and make Nash have to fucking guard somebody. Maybe we'll tire him out.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Someone on the Suns board posted this. Well, it's not Manu, it's Raja. :)


Here are Manu's numbers against the Suns this season:

Nov 8 - 12 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-13 from the field, 1-2 from three-point range
Feb 1 - 32 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists. 12-22 from the field, 3-8 from three-point range
Apr 5 - 7 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists. 3-11 from the field, 1-4 from three-point range
May 6 - 8 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists. 2-9 from the field, 1-3 from three-point range
May 8 - 6 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-9 from the field, 0-2 from three-point range

Overall: 13 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.8 apg. FG%: 35.9, 3pt%: 31.6

And Raja played only 11 minutes in the 2nd game because of injury, thats why Manu was able to score 32.
Yeah, but you have to remember those came at a time when Manu was giving out those performances against other teams, no matter how crappy or good a defender was on him. November he was focused on getting his jumpshot going.

Not to mention that lone, February GOOD game was part of his two month stretch where the basket was much bigger for Manu and he was basically on fire every game at some point, scoring bunches of 15 to 20 in halfs and quarters.

By April and May he started struggling again...:depressed. So yes, Bell is a good defender, but I still believe it speaks more on Manu sucking overall. WRONG TIME TO STINK IT UP MANU! You should have saved your 24 point game for the postseason, chaco!

[MannyIsGod]

Ginobili has had plenty of touches. Instead of trying his step-back-pump-fake-a-three move ad nauseum, he needs to get back to getting to the free throw line.

He has one real trip the line this series. That's where he made his living in 2005 ... and even last year.Seriously man. Can we fucking tatoo this on the forehead of all these idiots who can't get in through their thick fucking skulls?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Seriously man. Can we fucking tatoo this on the forehead of all these idiots who can't get in through their thick fucking skulls?
That's why i think Pop benched him at one point.

I still think Pop needs to put the onus on him to not settle for a jumper or a pass. Three games and Manu still doesn't have a clue.

To be fair, Manu's two three point attempts were good looks. Parker even said so.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think 3 days off is the best thing right now. Hopefully calms down the momentum a bit, and the rest could help finley's back, as well as parker's bruised elbow

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I think 3 days off is the best thing right now. Hopefully calms down the momentum a bit, and the rest could help finley's back, as well as parker's bruised elbow
yeah, that's a good plus.

Anyone think Pop has any cards up his sleeves to counter the Kurt Thomas adjustment?? :lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

yeah, that's a good plus.

Anyone think Pop has any cards up his sleeves to counter the Kurt Thomas adjustment?? :lol


well, i think tim will have to be aggressive and try to get KT in foul trouble, like he does to amare


but really, it comes down to the rest of the team, as I'm honestly more concerned with what we're not doing then what the suns are doing

[timvp]

With Duncan being single-teamed in the post, that means Manu has to be ready to create. I'd rather him go 3-for-15 as long as he's getting to the line and getting his shots up around the basket. The Suns defense is good, but Manu has shredded much tougher defenses in the past.

The same goes for Parker, but with Marion on him ... the Suns are trying to turn him into a jumpshooter. The onus falls on Manu to be Manu.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

lj, how would you feel about starting horry, and giving elson's minutes to bonner?

[timvp]

lj, how would you feel about starting horry, and giving elson's minutes to bonner?

I don't think it's time to panic. Panicking is part of the reason why the Mavs beat the Spurs last year.

Plus I don't think Bonner is ready for the playoff defensively. He's too much of a liability on that end of the court.

The Spurs went this long with Elson, might as well ride out the wave.

[Capt Bringdown]

I'm concerned because when we suck defensively we can figure shit out, but when we struggle offensively, Pop just gets more and more conservative, more and more in a shell. It's could be like '04 against the lakers.

I agree with your comments on this thread. Play Duncan straight up and clamp down on the other guys. Make us hit the outside shot. People gotta step up and we gotta throw some different looks out there or we're in trouble.

[Hoy]

I'm giving everybody D and F, Tim gets C.

[RonMexico]

You failed to mention that the Suns were +21 with Kurt Thomas on the floor... pretty huge for an adjustment many Spurs fans claimed would have no effect.

[timvp]

You failed to mention that the Suns were +21 with Kurt Thomas on the floor... pretty huge for an adjustment many Spurs fans claimed would have no effect.

I see him as +22 and +29 now for the series. That's the highest out of anybody on either team. All eight times Thomas has been on the court, the Suns have grown their lead.

But yeah, Spurs fans laughed at me when I said D'Antoni made a great move by putting Thomas into the starting lineup. The Spurs played like they didn't think much of the move either.

:pctoss

[team-work]

3 days of rest hopefully will help the Spurs to readjust to the changes made by the Suns. Probably they're more ready to play and win "low"-scoring games (ie. not scoring 110+ pts.) The Spurs trademark defense should come back and made them score 80-90+ points. Everything starts with good defense. Once again, it's good if the Spurs could put together a good game for 48 minutes, and not for limited stretches only.

Still the HCA, so chances for the Spurs are still good.

[Supergirl]

I think the answer for the loss is clear: Manu, Parker, Finley, Bowen, and Barry all couldn't buy a shot tonight. Duncan cannot win by himself, and even he couldn't hit it in he 4th.

Some of that has to be credited to the Suns's improved defense (Bell on Manu, Marion on Parker) but that doesn't explain everyone else's collective failure offensively.

But the Spurs were getting a lot of lousy offensive foul calls early on in the game, and that may have made them less aggressive offensively. They can't let that happen, and I suspect it won't in SA, where the calls will be more likely to go their way. They have to punish the Suns defense, which shouldn't be able to stop them like it did tonight, because it's not that good.

[ploto]

I see him as +22 and +29 now for the series. That's the highest out of anybody on either team. All eight times Thomas has been on the court, the Suns have grown their lead.

But yeah, Spurs fans laughed at me when I said D'Antoni made a great move by putting Thomas into the starting lineup. The Spurs played like they didn't think much of the move either.

:pctoss
While the focus is understandably on his defense, he also went 6-7 and had 12 points- almost all off mid-range jumpshots.

[GrandeDavid]

I didn't see the game but I don't buy into this great Suns defensive thing. It sounds to me like it was just an off night at everything from free throws to effort. I'm not exactly worried about the Suns defense, nor the Spurs' effort come Game 3. So the Spurs lost by 20 to a damn good team desperate for a win in front of their home crowd. Give me a damn break! It happens! No, the series isn't over, but I am all but positive the Spurs will make adjustments, maybe even survive a scare in Game 3 or 4, but will ultimately win this probably in 5. Phoenix had their moment. The Spurs now have nearly 4 days to soak this in and make their adjustments. Don't expect Manu to be a bystander on offense starting Saturday, and if Phoenix goes single coverage on Tim again, they will pay.

[mullet]

manu is sucking nuts right now. bottom line is that w/o him this series is over. he needs to score and take the burden off parker as the only slasher and collapser of defense. barry needs to find his nutz and pop/the whole fucking team needs to stop underestimating this team

[DarrinS]

I didn't see the game but I don't buy into this great Suns defensive thing. It sounds to me like it was just an off night at everything from free throws to effort. I'm not exactly worried about the Suns defense, nor the Spurs' effort come Game 3. So the Spurs lost by 20 to a damn good team desperate for a win in front of their home crowd. Give me a damn break! It happens! No, the series isn't over, but I am all but positive the Spurs will make adjustments, maybe even survive a scare in Game 3 or 4, but will ultimately win this probably in 5. Phoenix had their moment. The Spurs now have nearly 4 days to soak this in and make their adjustments. Don't expect Manu to be a bystander on offense starting Saturday, and if Phoenix goes single coverage on Tim again, they will pay.


I thought so too, at first, but then I watched some of the game again. They were pretty good at keeping the guards out of the paint. We couldn't move the ball very well with no penetration and it ended up being one of those flashback games where we feed Duncan and all the guards kindof stand around watching Duncan post up Thomas. The Suns are content to let that happen, if they can force everyone else to be jump shooters. Couple this with a bad shooting night and you get a 20 point blowout. Pop better adjust to this quick or the Spurs will be in trouble.

I think a BIG difference between this Suns team and the Suns teams we've beaten in the past is Raja Bell. He's pretty good at keeping Manu in check.

[TampaDude]

The bottom line is this...

Either the Spurs lost because they just had a bad night against a Suns team desperate not to lose, or they lost because the Suns are indeed a much better overall team. Right now, I think it's the former. Game 3 will tell us which.

Hopefully, the Spurs got that one bad game out of their systems and will get back to their dominating form. They need to lay a beating on PHX in Game 3...that will make me feel more confident that they can actually win the series and go on to win the title.

[leemajors]

The bottom line is this...

Either the Spurs lost because they just had a bad night against a Suns team desperate not to lose, or they lost because the Suns are indeed a much better overall team. Right now, I think it's the former. Game 3 will tell us which.

Hopefully, the Spurs got that one bad game out of their systems and will get back to their dominating form. They need to lay a beating on PHX in Game 3...that will make me feel more confident that they can actually win the series and go on to win the title.

my how the tide has turned.

[dougp]

Only grade that matters is this one -

F----------

Pathetic performance all around, can't blame them but still ... it was pathetic.

[Phenomanul]

Elson deserves an F.... The dude simply can't finish around the basket and the slightest touch causes him to fumble the ball on his way to the hoop. He annoys me to no end. And his rebounding instincts down right suck. He had 3 rebounds snatched away from him simply because he couldn't hold on to them. Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!

[spurster]

Any defense that can get away with single coverage on Duncan is a great defense against the Spurs.

[sabar]

How did Elson not get an F? Even by Elson standards, that was miserable. I felt embarassed for him the way he was fumbling the basketball. It's like he's afraid of the ball.

He makes Nazr "Butterfingers" Mohammed look like a ball-handling god.

If we keep him, he seriously needs to work on the fundamentals.

[BigBeezie]

Timmay was good to go and ready to win as usual. I give him an A- for not playing quarterback very well...but the DTs did come pretty slow. I think Coach PopAzit was horrible. He needed to motivate his team and kick them in the ass. Veteran team or not, they need a reminder of what's at stake here.

[thousandth]

Elson deserves an F.... The dude simply can't finish around the basket and the slightest touch causes him to fumble the ball on his way to the hoop. He annoys me to no end. And his rebounding instincts down right suck. He had 3 rebounds snatched away from him simply because he couldn't hold on to them. Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!

YES! :clap

[timvp]

I will forward all questions regarding Elson to Elson's fan club presidents Aggie Hoopsfan, T Park and Obstructed View.

[aaronstampler]

I will forward all questions regarding Elson to Elson's fan club presidents Aggie Hoopsfan, T Park and Obstructed View.

I hope this doesn't mean I'm gonna be forwarded the Manu questions.

[dbreiden83080]

Lose the series.

Duncan has to destroy single coverage to where the Suns have to double him. If he doesn't, the Spurs will struggle too much to score. Luckily, Duncan has had some dominant stretches this year so I have faith in him.

But this is the worst possible situation the Spurs could find themselves in against the Suns. If the Spurs lost a shootout, that'd be fine because the Spurs' defense will always be there at the end of the day.

But losing because the Suns locked you down is a bad sign because you can't stop the Suns from scoring. They are good enough offensively that they'll get their 100 points no matter how well you play them.

Props to D'Antoni for playing Thomas. That move just changed the entire outlook of the series. The Spurs went from a likely 4 or 5 game series to an all out war.

I don't think they are going to double him much nomatter what. He basically had his way with Thomas but they seem to be wanting to try and shut down our other players and let Tim do what he wants. If the main issue is double teams i don't see him getting very many of them nomatter who is guarding him.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

LOL at someone having to mention duncan 1 on 1 is the best possible option on the offensive end :lol