Spurs' Ginobili can't locate basket

[powerpower]

Spurs' Ginobili can't locate basket

Web Posted: 05/09/2007 10:17 PM CDT

Johnny Ludden
Express-News

These are not fun days for Manu Ginobili. The Spurs are coming off one of their most humbling losses of the season, and his own scoring production from the past three games resembles a Pennsylvania area code (4-8-6).
Foul trouble has limited his minutes on a couple of nights. His jump shot now has an intimate relationship with the rims at US Airways Center, and the few free throws he's attempted have had a good taste of iron as well.
Phoenix guard Raja Bell, one of the NBA's most physical defenders, has gone Bruce Bowen on him. And even when Bell hasn't been on the floor, Ginobili has found little relief: On Tuesday, the Suns blitzed him out of a timeout with two defenders, jarring the ball from his hands and taking it in for a layup.

So as Ginobili walked out of the locker room late Tuesday, frustrated after Phoenix had evened the teams' Western Conference semifinal at a game apiece, he left behind a trail of questions, none more obvious than this:

What does he need to do to jump-start his game?

"Who knows?" Ginobili said. "If it was that easy I could have done it. But I don't think it is even just this series. The series before was bad, too."

Ginobili is averaging 11.6 points during the playoffs, down from the 16.5 he averaged during the regular season and a substantial drop from the 19.9 per game he scored during the previous two postseasons combined.

The Suns, like the Denver Nuggets before them, have done a good job of keeping Ginobili from the rim and, so far, he's been unable to loosen their defense with his perimeter shooting. In the seven playoff games, Ginobili has made only 25 percent of his 3-point attempts while shooting 32.5 percent overall.

Ginobili didn't make a single shot in the second half of either game in Phoenix. On Tuesday, he went scoreless during the final two quarters.

"I'm not making shots, so usually shots is confidence," Ginobili said. "It's not that I don't know how to shoot. Either it's a bad stretch, or it's confidence. I really don't know. I feel good when I take it."

Ginobili has continued to find other ways to contribute. He's created scoring opportunities for his teammates and his 5.6 rebounds per game in the playoffs rank second on the team only to Tim Duncan.

"He takes great pride in playing the whole game and trying to complete a game plan and not just what we want to do offensively," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "People think that if somebody who usually scores doesn't score he had a bad game."

But it's also evident from Tuesday's 101-81 loss that the Spurs won't be able to survive if they're forced to rely on Duncan's scoring alone. And if Suns forward Shawn Marion continues to frustrate Tony Parker, who scored only 13 points on 14 shots in Game 2, the Spurs will have to look elsewhere for help.

In past seasons, Ginobili had little trouble assuming that role. During the Spurs' run to the 2005 championship, he averaged 20.8 points in the playoffs. Even last postseason when he made a couple of costly mistakes — a turnover that led to a loss in Sacramento and his critical Game 7 foul on Dallas' Dirk Nowitzki — he still proved to be one of the team's top crunch-time performers.

Ginobili's success, however, helped prompt the Suns to sign Bell before last season. A strong, rugged defender who was a training-camp castoff by the Spurs in 2000, Bell has given Ginobili trouble on more than a few occasions.

Ginobili scored 32 points in the Spurs' Feb. 1 loss to Phoenix, but Bell didn't play in the second half because of a knee injury. In their four other meetings this season, including the two playoff games, Ginobili is averaging 8.3 points while shooting 26.2 percent.

"Raja's doing a real good job on him," Popovich said. "You have to give him a lot of credit."

Bell has been able to lock in on Ginobili even more because Phoenix hasn't felt need to routinely double-team Duncan. While Duncan followed his 33-point performance in Game 1 with 29 on Tuesday, the Suns were satisfied that center Kurt Thomas had made him work.

Ginobili admitted Bell has caused him problems — he even appeared to floor Bell out of frustration at one point Tuesday — but also said he's missed his share of open shots. In Game 1, he made his first two attempts, but picked up two quick fouls and never regained his rhythm. He had similar trouble in the close-out game against Denver.

"I think he has a tendency at some point to almost feel guilty that he's not doing more if things aren't going great," Popovich said. "That's not always a good thing."

The Spurs could put Ginobili back into the starting lineup, but even Ginobili is unsure whether that move would benefit him or the team. The Spurs have gone 32-12 since he went to the bench on Jan. 28 and Michael Finley has performed well of late as a starter.

"I don't think it's about that," Ginobili said. "Some of the best games I had last year in the playoffs were coming from the bench, so it's not a matter of starting or playing from the bench.

"I'm just not making shots, so that's not helping my confidence."

Finley said he's willing to go back to the bench if needed. Opening with a small lineup — something the Spurs did last season against Dallas — also would allow Ginobili and Finley to begin the game on the floor together.

In the meantime, Finley is just glad Ginobili hasn't started passing up shots, even if he has pressed of late.

"Manu," Finley said, "just has to be Manu."

For now, though, that seems easier said that done.



* * *
GINOBILI VS. THE SUNS

During the 2004-05 season, Manu Ginobili averaged 24.6 points per game on 53.6 percent field-goal shooting against the Suns over seven games in the regular season and playoffs. Here is a look at how he's fared since then: Date FGM FGA Pts. May 8, 2007 3 9 6 May 6, 2007 2 9 8 April 5, 2007 3 11 7 Feb. 1, 2007 12 22 32 Nov. 8, 2006 3 13 12 March 17, 2006 4 9 14 March 9, 2006 6 8 18 Jan. 7, 2006 6 12 19 Nov. 19, 2005 6 14 15 Totals 45 107 131 Averages 42.1 pct. 14.6





Finley is WILLING to go to the bench if needed....DUHHHH you idiot you are supposed to be on the BENCH......

[powerpower]

Manu is beating himself up.....that is not a good sign for game 3 because it will result in 1pt performance by manu ginobili

[Admidave50]

Shit, looks like Manu lost a lot of his confidence

[powerpower]

Shit, looks like Manu lost a lot of his confidence

yes..i wanted him to have a break out game 3 but it will not happen...look at his word "Who Knows"..

Answer: You are supposed to know so get your ass and start practicing !!!

[Martin R]

I am REALLY worried. Manu had never stated shadows of lack of confidence before. He had always shown a better confident image for the "outside", even he was feeling down.
Not good. Not good at all.

Something weird (like a 14 point stretch) will have to happen to him in order to dramatically change his selfconfidence.

Martin

[Capt Bringdown]

Shit, looks like Manu lost a lot of his confidence
Because Bell owns his ass. Stats don't lie, he's go no reason to be confident at this point. Spurs better have a plan B, because Bells got his number.


In their four other meetings this season, including the two playoff games, Ginobili is averaging 8.3 points while shooting 26.2 percent.

[T Park]

Ginobili has gone Beno Udrih on the Spurs "Sniff Sniff "Ive lost my con fee dance"

christ....

[ArgSpursFan]

Listen you Morons,Just in case you didn´t notice it Manu is just having problems scoring(which is normal)but just because He is being double teamed more tham Duncan in the playoffs so far,at the same time He steped up in rebounds and on the D end.
He´ll find his way to get back on the scoreboard,that´s why He is in a spurs uniform and we are just spurstalk users.

[theroc5]

Ive been saying this the whole time and I truely think this will help manu...start him. hes a player that strives on confidence and anger. LET HIM PLAY POP!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Ginobili has gone Beno Udrih on the Spurs "Sniff Sniff "Ive lost my con fee dance"

christ....

Predictable and lame. You are the biggest bandwagoner on this board.

Howabout we run something for Manu other than setting him up in a 1-4 look and expecting him to beat Raja off the screen.

I guess a pick and roll with Finley, Horry, etc. would make too much sense?

But why talk x's and o's when you can bring some pansy hata take, right TPark?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Ginobili has gone Beno Udrih on the Spurs "Sniff Sniff "Ive lost my con fee dance"

christ....
Before you guys read into quotes too much.

You have to remember in print, things look exaggerated or whatever.

I'm pretty sure Manu will get his head out of his ass regardless. He always mentions his confidence when he's in a slump. It's natural, you're feeling really good when you got good games, it's up. Of course his "confidence" would be down.

Manu is not Beno. Because if Manu was really sulking, he would have given up on D, the steals and the rebounds and feeding Tim.

Christ, some of you's guys, need to be less short-sighted and flippant, before blowing things out of proportion..

But I *will* say Manu is a bit of an odd player, because he plays with so much passion, like Pop said, he'll beat himself up over things more than the other players. It's good that he cares and wants to do much for the team, but I think he' needs to learn how to relax sometimes. It's just basketball :smokin

[GrandeDavid]

Gheez. He's a polite guy in interviews and humble by nature, but never doubt his will to win. I'm honestly not worried about Ginobili. I think he'll have big offensive games in Games 3 and 4.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Predictable and lame. You are the biggest bandwagoner on this board.

Howabout we run something for Manu other than setting him up in a 1-4 look and expecting him to beat Raja off the screen.

I guess a pick and roll with Finley, Horry, etc. would make too much sense?

But why talk x's and o's when you can bring some pansy hata take, right TPark?
:lol, it was a stupid comment by Tpark.

[SAGambler]

Listen you Morons,Just in case you didn´t notice it Manu is just having problems scoring(which is normal)but just because He is being double teamed more tham Duncan in the playoffs so far,at the same time He steped up in rebounds and on the D end.
He´ll find his way to get back on the scoreboard,that´s why He is in a spurs uniform and we are just spurstalk users.

It's not like he isn't contributing to the overall effort. He is still hustleing on the court, just not getting shots to fall.

And tell me, what great shooter hasn't gotten in a funk before? Even Tim goes through slumps where he throws up bricks.

I think we have seen Tony go through this before. Finley? Of course.. Just look at the "time to get rid of Finley" posts during the first half of the season.

Now it's Manu and Barry everyone is "ready to trade".

I guess from a fans point of view, it isn't "what have you done for the team", but rather "what have you done the past 3 or 4 games."

How soon you forget that not for some of the players you want to dog now because they aren't having outstanding games, the Spurs might not even be in the playoffs.

Manu and Barry will both just have to play through their slumps, just like Finley did.

And anyone that thinks great shooters can't get in slumps, witness that 7 foot German that plays for Dallas....You may say a lot of negative things about him, but not being a great shooter isn't one of them. Yet he practically dissappeared in round 1..........

But I guess you guys just put it down that "he is nothing but a choker".

Sometimes I really get to believing that Pro Sports Fans are the biggest morons on the face of the earth. Of course they are a bunch of wannabees still trying to relive their "high school glory days" when they would never have gone through a slump.....(wink, wink)

[nkdlunch]

IMO the main problem is that Manu wants to do something amazing every play. He wants a highlight assist or penetration or 3.

He needs to go back to basics and play ball one second at a time. If opportunity comes, pass it, if opportunity comes penetrate, if opportunity comes, shoot 3. but don't force it manu.

stop trying to make an amazing play everytime you have the ball!!!

[ducks]

it is about time the sa media calls out manu

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

IMO the main problem is that Manu wants to do something amazing every play. He wants a highlight assist or penetration or 3.

He needs to go back to basics and play ball one second at a time. If opportunity comes, pass it, if opportunity comes penetrate, if opportunity comes, shoot 3. but don't force it manu.

stop trying to make an amazing play everytime you have the ball!!!
I agree. He'll be out of sync at times when he thinks too much, whenever he gets the ball.

Rather than letting the game come. I think Pop has told him that before. I hope Pop takes him aside and reminds him this on Saturday.

[ducks]

Ginobili didn't make a single shot in the second half of either game in Phoenix. On Tuesday, he went scoreless during the final two quarters. unreal

[VaSpursFan]

manu is fine...he just needs to play with that reckless abandon again...now, he seems a bit tenative on the court. i like the manu that's all ove the place, chasing down loose balls, corraling key rebounds. once he gets that perpetual motion happen again, he'll be fine. right now, he's just relying on jumpers. you jump start your game by getting a few easy shots to fall or knocking down a couple free throws.

what this team needs is more passing and cutting. phx is capable at the defensive end, if they now we'll go to 4 down, the stand around and watch timmy show. by passing and cutting hard, we should be able to get some easy buckets, collapse the d and get some open shots.

[boutons_]

Manu is NOT fine.

His fickle muse has abandoned him.

This is a huge test for Manu.

Has he ever had such a bad slump, season and playoffs, NBA or international?

If teams let Tim get his, and shut down Tony and Manu, bye bye ring.

[ploto]

No comments on this...

Opening with a small lineup — something the Spurs did last season against Dallas — also would allow Ginobili and Finley to begin the game on the floor together.

Who will cover Amare??

[GrandeDavid]

it is about time the sa media calls out manu

That will never happen. The Spurs OWN the San Antonio sports world and guys would probably be worried about their jobs if they called out Manu.

[ploto]

I believed from the start of the season that the Spurs were structuring the team to center around Tim and Tony. I never supported it because I have always thought that the Spurs need Manu to be successful to win a championship. When you look at the line-ups he plays within and the way the offense is dominated by Tim and Tony. Remember when Manu would get the ball in his hands late in games- or how they would get the ball to Manu at the end when the opponent was going to foul. Those days disappeared this season, as Pop wanted to give Tony a bigger and bigger role. I have felt all season that the Spurs were more than willing to decrease Manu to build up Tony's position on the team.

[ducks]

spurs in the begining of the year were goign to tony some to get him ready to be a more of an option late in the game
3 options is better then one


if manu was willing to drive and get a foul called that is one reason pop went to him
manu was good at drawing fouls

[2centsworth]

We'll finally after 4 years Ducks has reason to hate. Manu needs to grow a pair, and it's not just Bell because Bell didn't play for the Nuggets and Manu still struggled.

Either Manu is going to get pissed off and explode or crawl up into a shell and continue to play like Oberto.

Where's Tony Robbins when you need him.

[2centsworth]

I believed from the start of the season that the Spurs were structuring the team to center around Tim and Tony. I never supported it because I have always thought that the Spurs need Manu to be successful to win a championship. When you look at the line-ups he plays within and the way the offense is dominated by Tim and Tony. Remember when Manu would get the ball in his hands late in games- or how they would get the ball to Manu at the end when the opponent was going to foul. Those days disappeared this season, as Pop wanted to give Tony a bigger and bigger role. I have felt all season that the Spurs were more than willing to decrease Manu to build up Tony's position on the team.
The best players on the team have always taken a lesser role to build up other players. David did it for Tim, Tim did it for Manu and Tony, and now Manu needs to do it. Never did I think in a million years that Manu's confidence was that fragile.

[Rummpd]

Per an earlier post by another poster, start him.

Manu just needs to get a few to go in the basket and should just drive or go to the 10 - 15 foot range ever time, no more threes for awhile.

[SAGambler]

You can call it a slump, but by God Manu is still contributing.

Last two games 9 assists and 14 rebounds and 3 steals.

In the loss, Spurs had a total of 14 assists (here is the problem), and 5 of them came from Manu. Only Duncan had more rebounds. In the game we won, again only Duncan had more rebounds than Manu.

In a total of 32 assists, Tony and Manu have combined for 20 of them, with Tony having 11 and Manu 9. (anyone starting to see a problem with our assists ratio?)

Someone said Horry stated there wasn't enough ball movement. Well, by god, he is right. Even in the win we only had 18 assists. And dropped to 14 in game 2.

Hopefully in this stretch before Saturday, the Spurs will have some practice time to work out the assist problems. Correct that and they will be back on top.

[Cry Havoc]

Game 3 under the lights of the home crowd in San Antonio will be telling. If he gets to the rim and hits his first outside shot, I think we'll see the Manu of old emerge.

[2centsworth]

You can call it a slump, but by God Manu is still contributing.

Last two games 9 assists and 14 rebounds and 3 steals.

In the loss, Spurs had a total of 14 assists (here is the problem), and 5 of them came from Manu. Only Duncan had more rebounds. In the game we won, again only Duncan had more rebounds than Manu.

In a total of 32 assists, Tony and Manu have combined for 20 of them, with Tony having 11 and Manu 9. (anyone starting to see a problem with our assists ratio?)

Someone said Horry stated there wasn't enough ball movement. Well, by god, he is right. Even in the win we only had 18 assists. And dropped to 14 in game 2.

Hopefully in this stretch before Saturday, the Spurs will have some practice time to work out the assist problems. Correct that and they will be back on top.

he is contributing, but in an Oberto like manner. Manu is a star, and like Tim and Tony, we expect star like numbers. Manu needs to be at 20pts, 7rbs, 5asst, 2stl a game! I expect 25 & 15 from Tim and 20 and 8 from Tony.

[nkdlunch]

exactly. Noone is saying Manu is not contributing. But at this point he should be carrying the team for stretches.

[Budkin]

Manu is going to run wild in Games 3 and 4.

[2centsworth]

For the Love of Argentina Manu Please be a Man!

Even if you don't score atleast bust someone in the mouth.

[Cry Havoc]

I think the problem may be that teams are falling way, way off his outside shot. They only care about limiting his driving abilities. If he can't get to the rim, his rhythm is affected a bit. He likes to hit close ones and then range his shot out as the game goes on.

His feint forward with his driving foot has defenders almost falling over backwards to cover it. He needs to continue creating that space and knock down some treys. Hurt teams for playing you so softly, Manu!

[angel_luv]

You can do it Gino! I believe. :)

[Cry Havoc]

You can do it Gino! I believe that love is the answer, I believe, love will find a way. :)

:)

[Cherry]

For the Love of Argentina Manu Please be a Man!

Even if you don't score atleast bust someone in the mouth.

Ey! No way :lol

everybody put on n°20 jerseys on saturday (yeah, you too Mr Robinson) :hungry:

[Martin R]

trade Manu.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

this is pretty disheartening to read


he needs to almost eliminate the jumper from his game and get some layups/ft's

the rest will take care of itself

[bdictjames]

Manu needs to have a breakdown like Andrei Kirilenko and wake up.

[powerpower]

would you discount manu from the playoff as a factor if his game 3 production is 3 pts, 4assists, 5 rebs, 2to's ,3 stls????????????????

[T Park]

:lol

I quote Ginobili himself and a I'm a hater. :lol

Typical.

[timvp]

I believed from the start of the season that the Spurs were structuring the team to center around Tim and Tony. I never supported it because I have always thought that the Spurs need Manu to be successful to win a championship. When you look at the line-ups he plays within and the way the offense is dominated by Tim and Tony. Remember when Manu would get the ball in his hands late in games- or how they would get the ball to Manu at the end when the opponent was going to foul. Those days disappeared this season, as Pop wanted to give Tony a bigger and bigger role. I have felt all season that the Spurs were more than willing to decrease Manu to build up Tony's position on the team.

You need to watch more Spurs games. Manu has still been the number one option late in games when the games are close. Even against Denver when he wasn't playing too well, Pop would call a play for Manu in the fourth.

The only time I recall differently was the Parker penetration and kick to Horry ... but that was right after Manu had turned it over and Blake hit that toe on the line two.

[dbreiden83080]

Holy shit Manu get your head out of your ass this is the playoffs and this team is good enough to win it all. What is up with these puzzling lack of confidence quotes. This guy had a great series against the Pistons in the finals and they are twice the defensive team that the Suns are. Lets go Manu we need you. Stop taking so many half assed 3's and go to the hoop for starters, that will get you going.

[ducks]

You need to watch more Spurs games. Manu has still been the number one option late in games when the games are close. Even against Denver when he wasn't playing too well, Pop would call a play for Manu in the fourth.

The only time I recall differently was the Parker penetration and kick to Horry ... but that was right after Manu had turned it over and Blake hit that toe on the line two.
that was not the play
horry said tp did not run the play pop called
he saw what the d did and the rest is history
listen to horry postgame comment that game

[Testing]

Manu can easily snap out of his funk at home now that the Spurs are headed there. Problem is, will he revert back to his old self when the series comes back to Pheonix?

Also, I don't know why he is still your #1 ball handler in close games at the end. I can't remember the last time he came through for you in the clutch in the 4th quarter with a pass or shot. Usually his passes result in TO's which hurt the game. Saw in against the Kings twice last postseason, Game 7 against Dallas last year, and even Game 3 (or 4) against the Nuggets this year which led to the blake 2 pointer. Luckily Horry bailed him out...

[hater]

Also, I don't know why he is still your #1 ball handler in close games at the end.

he has not been our #1 ball handler in close games for a looong time now.

[Louae]

The problem isn't so much Manu, it's POP. He needs to play Manu more minutes. Just looking at his minutes from previous playoff seasons. He's averaging 33 minutes/game. During the playoffs this season, he's averaging 28 minutes/game. I don't understand why we don't shorten our rotation and play our best guys the majority of the time. I just don't see what Vaughn does that Barry can't do.

Tim Duncan - 40 minutes (8 minutes left)
Fab Oberto - 24 minutes (24 minutes left)
Bruce Bowen - 30 minutes (18 minutes left)
Michael Finely - 30 minutes (18 minutes left)
Tony Parker - 40 minutes (8 minutes left)


Bench
Manu Ginobili - 36 minutes
Robert Horry - 24 minutes (Sub Fab mostly in the 2nd half)
Francisco Elson - 8 minutes (Sub Timmy when Nash is taking a blow)
Brent Barry - 8 minutes (Backup Point Guard)

[ducks]

manu can not play over 30 minutes a game
he needs to run like crazy drive not shot three pointers and rest
attack!