LMAO...The rest of the Bowen "kick" story

[GSH]

I just got off the phone with a college friend of mine who works for a station in Phoenix. (He loves Nash, but he says D'Antoni is a crybaby and he really hates him.) He says that there is another camera angle of the incident that tells the story a little differently. (Actually, he said that it makes Stoudamire look like a whiny, lying bitch.) He also said that D'Antoni and the Suns are trying hard to back off of this thing and let it go away quietly now.

My friend said that someone on the Suns' staff was looking at a replay and saw what he thought was a kick. He told D'Antoni and Stoudamire, and they got their panties in a wad before getting all the facts. Suddenly Amare "remembered" getting kicked in the Achilles, and got in front of a reporter with the story. When D'Antoni was first asked about it, he was pretty vocal. But not long afterward, he heard that there might be a problem with their information, and suddenly he said that he didn't think it was a big deal - the league would probably review the film and whatever they decide will be fine.

From the other camera angle, what happened is this: Stoudamire was on the way up, and the very end of the heel of his (Stoudamire's) shoe hit the sole of Bowen's shoe, near the toe. He said that Amare's toes were pointed straight down because he had just lifted off, so his heel was coming straight up. Bowen's foot was coming down (not forward, as in a kick) at that point, and it was the edge of Amare's shoe-heel that hit the bottom of Bowen's shoe. Nothing ever touched Stoudamire's Achilles tendon, and the contact was nothing more than a light brush anyway. (I am doing my best to write this down quickly, while it is fresh in my mind.)

Someone asked Amare why, if it was such an obvious kick, he didn't react during the game. Stoudamire said that he didn't want to risk getting a technical, or getting ejected from the game. But earlier he had said that he wasn't upset about anything until after he looked at the replay. But the first thing my friend asked was, "If he wasn't upset, why would there have been any thought of getting a tech?" Nobody has ever accused Amare Stoudamire of being smart, and he apparently failed to notice that his stories don't add up.

The one other thing he told me was that it is very clear what happened from looking at the game film. Stoudamire came down awkwardly, on his left foot, after making the dunk. He said that Amare later claimed that the reason he came down awkwardly is because of the kick. (Another variation of the story.) But he said that if you look at the video from the other angle, I am told, it is clear that it was a light brush, and that Stoudamire's foot wasn't deflected at all. There is no way that it could have caused him to come down awkwardly. His body was too far under the basked by the time he got the ball to the rim, and making the dunk threw him off balance.

The word is that Stoudamire has been instructed not to say another word to the press about the incident. They are going to claim that the league will handle it as they see fit. But the truth is they want it to go away now. And that also fits. You know Mike D'Antoni would never quit whining about something like this, if there were really anything to it. Hell, he's still whining about things that happened years ago. I knew that he was a sniveling bitch...I just didn't know Stoudamire was.

[sunsbum]

footloose, footloose...take off your sunday shoes.

[Kori Ellis]

The word is that Stoudamire has been instructed not to say another word to the press about the incident. They are going to claim that the league will handle it as they see fit.

The league already handled it. They said Bowen didn't do anything.

As for Amare - The Suns also didn't like it that he told the press about the switch to start KThomas before Game 2. So, they are probably just going to gag him from the media :lol

[duncan228]

So, they are probably just going to gag him from the media :lol

We can only hope. :lol

[Kori Ellis]

Anyway, we were just watching the replay of Game 5 of the 2005 series - damn Amare was a frickin BEAST.

[jayfmyers]

As for Amare - The Suns also didn't like it that he told the press about the switch to start KThomas before Game 2. So, they are probably just going to gag him from the media :lol

I thought it was a little odd for him to give away the team's strategy. He needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut. :oops

[Durruti]

the very end of the heel of his (Stoudamire's) shoe hit the sole of Bowen's shoe"

LOL

[hater]

Amare should wear a nozzle next time he is interviewed :lmao

kid is as dumb as a brick

[jmard5]

the very end of the heel of his (Stoudamire's) shoe hit the sole of Bowen's shoe"

LOL

Now, are you a convert?

[ducks]

I want amare to keep talking
he keeps looking like a fool

[Durruti]

Now, are you a convert?

Not at all. The footage speaks for itself, as do the other dozen times Bowie tried to undercut. It's just that the latest explanation is so goofy I had to laugh.

:lol

[kps0001]

I just got off the phone with a college friend of mine who works for a station in Phoenix. (He loves Nash, but he says D'Antoni is a crybaby and he really hates him.) He says that there is another camera angle of the incident that tells the story a little differently. (Actually, he said that it makes Stoudamire look like a whiny, lying bitch.) He also said that D'Antoni and the Suns are trying hard to back off of this thing and let it go away quietly now.

My friend said that someone on the Suns' staff was looking at a replay and saw what he thought was a kick. He told D'Antoni and Stoudamire, and they got their panties in a wad before getting all the facts. Suddenly Amare "remembered" getting kicked in the Achilles, and got in front of a reporter with the story. When D'Antoni was first asked about it, he was pretty vocal. But not long afterward, he heard that there might be a problem with their information, and suddenly he said that he didn't think it was a big deal - the league would probably review the film and whatever they decide will be fine.

From the other camera angle, what happened is this: Stoudamire was on the way up, and the very end of the heel of his (Stoudamire's) shoe hit the sole of Bowen's shoe, near the toe. He said that Amare's toes were pointed straight down because he had just lifted off, so his heel was coming straight up. Bowen's foot was coming down (not forward, as in a kick) at that point, and it was the edge of Amare's shoe-heel that hit the bottom of Bowen's shoe. Nothing ever touched Stoudamire's Achilles tendon, and the contact was nothing more than a light brush anyway. (I am doing my best to write this down quickly, while it is fresh in my mind.)

Someone asked Amare why, if it was such an obvious kick, he didn't react during the game. Stoudamire said that he didn't want to risk getting a technical, or getting ejected from the game. But earlier he had said that he wasn't upset about anything until after he looked at the replay. But the first thing my friend asked was, "If he wasn't upset, why would there have been any thought of getting a tech?" Nobody has ever accused Amare Stoudamire of being smart, and he apparently failed to notice that his stories don't add up.

The one other thing he told me was that it is very clear what happened from looking at the game film. Stoudamire came down awkwardly, on his left foot, after making the dunk. He said that Amare later claimed that the reason he came down awkwardly is because of the kick. (Another variation of the story.) But he said that if you look at the video from the other angle, I am told, it is clear that it was a light brush, and that Stoudamire's foot wasn't deflected at all. There is no way that it could have caused him to come down awkwardly. His body was too far under the basked by the time he got the ball to the rim, and making the dunk threw him off balance.

The word is that Stoudamire has been instructed not to say another word to the press about the incident. They are going to claim that the league will handle it as they see fit. But the truth is they want it to go away now. And that also fits. You know Mike D'Antoni would never quit whining about something like this, if there were really anything to it. Hell, he's still whining about things that happened years ago. I knew that he was a sniveling bitch...I just didn't know Stoudamire was.



Well since your friend said this I guess that settles it. Seeing as nobody that I talked to here in Phoenix has said anything like this. But hey one more thread about the subject is definately justified. Especially with all the concrete evidence that you and your "friend" provided to support such.

[TwoHandJam]

Not at all. The footage speaks for itself, as do the other dozen times Bowie tried to undercut. It's just that the latest explanation is so goofy I had to laugh.

:lol
Right, Bowen is just so amazingly talented that he's escaped suspension all these years. Either that or there's a conspiracy in the league to protect him. Yeah, that's it. Gotta be.

[PhxDog]

Right, Bowen is just so amazingly talented that he's escaped suspension all these years. Either that or there's a conspiracy in the league to protect him. Yeah, that's it. Gotta be.
To be fair, it's not just Bowen. The league protects all of their dirty players.




LMAO at the first post, though. Somebody's got a lot of free time.

[Obstructed_View]

Funny that Manu is dirty for sticking his knee out, but Amare isn't dirty for putting his forearm into Manu's throat. Bowen's guilty when Amare accuses him because others have accused him, but the accusation turns out to be bullshit but Bowen's still dirty because of the other accusations from the likes of Isiah and Vince Carter.

[conversekid]

footloose, footloose...take off your sunday shoes.
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/5fee0c2d6c.jpg


:lol :lol :lol

My new desktop background. No more mark cuban crying after GS whooped them This is too funny. :toast

[hater]

My new desktop background. No more mark cuban crying after GS whooped them This is too funny. :toast

you have a pic of Cuban crying? can you post it? I could use a laugh

[TwoHandJam]

To be fair, it's not just Bowen. The league protects all of their dirty players.

So true. Malone never got suspended either, I forgot. Fortson either. Even Artest has managed to escape suspension. Touche.

[timvp]

From the other camera angle, what happened is this: Stoudamire was on the way up, and the very end of the heel of his (Stoudamire's) shoe hit the sole of Bowen's shoe, near the toe.


http://www.spurstalk.com/brucestep2.jpg

Yeah, like I've been saying, from one angle it can be perceived as dirty. But from the angle that you can actually see what happened, you can tell that Bowen is guilty of stepping on the back of Stoudemire's shoe.

:sleep

[TwoHandJam]

http://www.spurstalk.com/brucestep2.jpg

Yeah, like I've been saying, from one angle it can be perceived as dirty. But from the angle that you can actually see what happened, you can tell that Bowen is guilty of stepping on the back of Stoudemire's shoe.

:sleep
Owned.

[PhxDog]

Yeah, like I've been saying, from one angle it can be perceived as dirty. But from the angle that you can actually see what happened, you can tell that Bowen is guilty of stepping on the back of Stoudemire's shoe.
And you don't think that's dirty? Wow, I would have expected something different from your corner.

[TwoHandJam]

I hear that when someone touches the back of your shoe, it can hurt your achilles real bad. To the point where it might take a day to recover. You'd also have to call that person out in the press just to make sure everyone knows how dirty they really are - but certainly not because you're scared or anything crazy like that.

[jmard5]

The fact is, Stu did not base his judgment on the YouTube video that was shown to us on TV. There are cameras scattered throughtout the court. Hell, there are even cameras installed at the floor.

[GSH]

OMG...where did you get that shot? That's exactly what he described to me. I did my best to relay it, but that picture says it all. Stoudamire's heel is coming up, and the contact is with the bottom of Bruce's foot. Not a kick.

I asked for a copy of the video clip earlier, but he said he would get his ass kicked. Stoudamire really is a lying, whining bitch. The Suns fans look stupid. All things considered, a really good day. Very nice pulling that one out. Your sources are impressive.

From PhxDog [And you don't think that's dirty? Wow, I would have expected something different from your corner.]
Doesn't matter what we would call it. You do have to admit that it isn't a kick, don't you? And your big man went national with the story that Bowen had kicked him. Sorry. He may be a great player, but he is also Bruce's bitch now.

And whichever one of you questioned "my friend"? Do I even need to say to kiss my ass?

[PhxDog]

I hear that when someone touches the back of your shoe, it can hurt your achilles real bad. To the point where it might take a day to recover. You'd also have to call that person out in the press just to make sure everyone knows how dirty they really are - but certainly not because you're scared or anything crazy like that.

Since you seem to be looking for a response, here's what I said on my home board yesterday:


After watching the better camera angles, I have to change my mind. I don't think Bowen kicked Amare in the ankle; I think he stomped on the back of Amare's shoe.

I guess it's a new twist on the Isiah Thomas move (Isiah was famous for stepping on the feet of jump-shooters as they were trying to elevate). Thank goodness we're all able to watch such a fantastic innovator, eh?




Now, as for whether Bowen was targeting Amare's microfracture knee specifically, or whether he only went after Amare's left foot because it was closer to him, I still couldn't tell you.

[SpursWoman]

Since you seem to be looking for a response, here's what I said on my home board yesterday:

:lol


http://www.omegacomplex.com/images/paranoia.jpg

[spursfan09]

To be fair, it's not just Bowen. The league protects all of their dirty players.




LMAO at the first post, though. Somebody's got a lot of free time.

Then why does Raja always get suspended?

[TwoHandJam]

Since you seem to be looking for a response, here's what I said on my home board yesterday:
Of course. Bowen must have missed stomping properly on Amare's shoe because in the split seconds before the incident, he stopped to think about which knee had been surgically repaired so as to inflict maximum damage. Rookie mistake.

[DarrinS]

Just for grins, I think the AT&T center should play the Carl Douglas song, "Kung Foo Fighting", in honor of the NBA's "dirtiest" player, Bruce "ninja" Bowen.

[kps0001]

So true. Malone never got suspended either, I forgot. Fortson either. Even Artest has managed to escape suspension. Touche.

Actually Forston has been suspended. He pushed Zarko Cbarkapa(sp?) when he was a Sun and broke his wrist. Thats when Colangelo called him a thug and Fortson threatened to sue him. Pretty funny.

I think Artest has been suspended just a little bit say like almost a whole season although that was the Pistons fight in the stands thing. But those two were supsended....just saying.

Not sure about Malone.

[Man In Black]

Malone has been suspended numerous times. Including a stint for breaking one Steve Nash's nose with a flash of his elbows.

[VaSpursFan]

Just for grins, I think the AT&T center should play the Carl Douglas song, "Kung Foo Fighting", in honor of the NBA's "dirtiest" player, Bruce "ninja" Bowen.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :toast

[Kori Ellis]

Actually Forston has been suspended. He pushed Zarko Cbarkapa(sp?) when he was a Sun and broke his wrist. Thats when Colangelo called him a thug and Fortson threatened to sue him. Pretty funny.

I think Artest has been suspended just a little bit say like almost a whole season although that was the Pistons fight in the stands thing. But those two were supsended....just saying.

Not sure about Malone.

You realize Two Hand Jam's post was being sarcastic, because PHXDog said that the league protects the dirty players.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

http://www.spurstalk.com/brucestep2.jpg




Bowen's foot is actually under Amare's shoe. I can't believe the Spurs haven't sent this in to the league office. Amare could have hurt Bruce by purposely landing on his foot like that!

[TwoHandJam]

You realize Two Hand Jam's post was being sarcastic, because PHXDog said that the league protects the dirty players.Aww Kori, now you've gone and spoiled all the fun. I have to admit though that Suns fans have a flair for the obvious. Things like that can't be taught, it's just natural born idiocy.

[kps0001]

You realize Two Hand Jam's post was being sarcastic, because PHXDog said that the league protects the dirty players.


no, I missed it. Thanks.

I still think its hilarious Fortson was gonna sue Colangelo though.

[kps0001]

Aww Kori, now you've gone and spoiled all the fun. I have to admit though that Suns fans have a flair for the obvious. Things like that can't be taught, it's just natural born idiocy.

Another person who wants to resort to name calling. Look sorry I missed PHXdog's post that you were sarcastically replying to. Had I seen his post your sarcasm probably would have been more obvious, I guess.

I was just, again, making some conversation, and though my post was pretty harmless but now I am the idiot. Way to go, again Spurs fans. So quick to attack and call names.

[PhxDog]

Then why does Raja always get suspended?
Always? :lol

[kps0001]

And whichever one of you questioned "my friend"? Do I even need to say to kiss my ass?


Well I guess hearing a San Antonio fan trying to tell me, a Phoenix fan and resident, something that has yet to be heard of or discussed in Phoenix I should ultimately believe it? SOLID WORK GSH! You would make a great attorney with your hearsay and lack of evidence. :rolleyes

[SAGambler]

http://www.spurstalk.com/brucestep2.jpg

Yeah, like I've been saying, from one angle it can be perceived as dirty. But from the angle that you can actually see what happened, you can tell that Bowen is guilty of stepping on the back of Stoudemire's shoe.

:sleep

But....but...I thought he "kicked" him.

Hell of a lot of difference in "an intentional kick" and "barely stepping on the back of his shoe" don't you think...

Hope the press keep interviewing Amare.....he won't be able to keep his mouth shut.

[sunsbum]

Bowen's foot is actually under Amare's shoe. I can't believe the Spurs haven't sent this in to the league office. Amare could have hurt Bruce by purposely landing on his foot like that!


another blind spurs fan, seeing what they want to see.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/joshuastmarie/amare.jpg

[SRJ]

I remember a play from game two when Boris Diaw tried to rip Manu Ginobili's arm right out of its socket. Oh sure, it appeared as though the arms got tangled in passing, but I know what's in a man's heart - I know that was intentional.

Sounds stupid, right? Well substitute:

"Bruce Bowen" for "Boris Diaw"
"Amare Stoudemire's" for "Manu Ginobili's"
"kick leg" for "rip arm right out of its socket"
and "contact was incidental" for "arms got tangled in passing"

and now you know just how utterly ridiculous this accusation is.

Vince Carter and Ray Allen have accused Bruce Bowen of being an arsonist when all he does is apply a little heat, more than they're used to. The Suns are trying to use that bullshit rep to their advantage, but the league once again doesn't buy it.

Next you Suns fans are going to tell me, "that's because Stern loves the Spurs", which again is total nonsense. Stern is on record as saying that his dream NBA Finals is Lakers vs. Lakers, so why would he prefer a small-market slow-it-down defensive-oriented team advance? Why would Stern favor a team featuring the no-dunk superstar, Tim "ummmm" Duncan?

I'd ask you to think about it, Suns fan, but that's asking quite a bit of you. Don't go making shit up just because your guys can't beat ours.

[TwoHandJam]

Another person who wants to resort to name calling. Look sorry I missed PHXdog's post that you were sarcastically replying to. Had I seen his post your sarcasm probably would have been more obvious, I guess.

I was just, again, making some conversation, and though my post was pretty harmless but now I am the idiot. Way to go, again Spurs fans. So quick to attack and call names.


I think Artest has been suspended just a little bit say like almost a whole season although that was the Pistons fight in the stands thing. But those two were supsended....just saying.

Not sure about Malone.
You're right, perhaps you're not an idiot. However if that's the case, you might want to do something about your glaring ignorance before posting in forums and making a jackass of yourself.

[DarrinS]

I wish people would post MORE of those grainy close-ups of Bruce's non-foul.

[kps0001]

I remember a play from game two when Boris Diaw tried to rip Manu Ginobili's arm right out of its socket. Oh sure, it appeared as though the arms got tangled in passing, but I know what's in a man's heart - I know that was intentional.

Sounds stupid, right? Well substitute:

"Bruce Bowen" for "Boris Diaw"
"Amare Stoudemire's" for "Manu Ginobili's"
"kick leg" for "rip arm right out of its socket"
and "contact was incidental" for "arms got tangled in passing"

and now you know just how utterly ridiculous this accusation is.

Vince Carter and Ray Allen have accused Bruce Bowen of being an arsonist when all he does is apply a little heat, more than they're used to. The Suns are trying to use that bullshit rep to their advantage, but the league once again doesn't buy it.

Next you Suns fans are going to tell me, "that's because Stern loves the Spurs", which again is total nonsense. Stern is on record as saying that his dream NBA Finals is Lakers vs. Lakers, so why would he prefer a small-market slow-it-down defensive-oriented team advance? Why would Stern favor a team featuring the no-dunk superstar, Tim "ummmm" Duncan?

I'd ask you to think about it, Suns fan, but that's asking quite a bit of you. Don't go making shit up just because your guys can't beat ours.

Actually, you argument is utterly ridiculous. Where are the mutlitple youtube videos of Diaw repeatedly trying to rip someones arm out?

That is our, Suns fans, point that just gets overlooked by Spurs fans. There are countless videos of Bowen using his "foot defense" and other than Raja Bell no other Suns player, I believe posseses any of these tactics. There is a history with Bowen, whether or not he is found guilty and disciplined by the NBA is not the point. There are many players, fans, and coaches of teams other than the Suns that have repeatedly brought this up. That is our point or at least mine.

[kps0001]

You're right, perhaps you're not an idiot. However if that's the case, you might want to do something about your glaring ignorance before posting in forums and making a jackass of yourself.


can you direct me to the part of making a jackass of myself? Really curious to know.

Because I posted about 2 players being suspended. One of which I only brought up because of the outright hilarity of Fortsons threats. Get over yourself.



edit: please show me the glaring ignorance as well.

[hater]

it shocks me that Sun fans attack Bowen after this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB2szG0pkkM


gimme a break. Sun fans, just accept you got Bell we got Bowen. Even Steven. now STFU and stop crying.

[DarrinS]

I wish I was Stoudemire's foot.


Sincerely,


Manu's neck

[sunsbum]

I wish people would post MORE of those grainy close-ups of Bruce's non-foul.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/joshuastmarie/amare.jpg

[TwoHandJam]

can you direct me to the part of making a jackass of myself? Really curious to know.

Because I posted about 2 players being suspended. One of which I only brought up because of the outright hilarity of Fortsons threats. Get over yourself.



edit: please show me the glaring ignorance as well.
It was in bold in my previous post. Jesus, you're really not helping your case. How much public ridicule will it take?

[hater]

http://cdn.channel.aol.com/channels/0f/02/445a15bb-001b4-0510a-400cb8e1

[hater]

http://thefeed.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/pho_bell_65538.jpg

[kps0001]

LOL....sorry my basketball memory doesn't allow me to recall everytime an NBA player was suspended and I wasn't going to be bothered to google it. But if you feel the need to ridicule I can take all you can dish. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself man :rolleyes

[kps0001]

AMORE IS A PUSSY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[QUOTE=hater]http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb177/hater79/trin_carebears3copy.jpg

Since some want to ridicule I can play along.

Who the fuck is Amore? Does he play for The Sons?

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/403/sunsganghv3.jpg



and you guys call AMARE, stupid.

[kyle macy]

http://thefeed.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/pho_bell_65538.jpg


Don't be a hater, you know you Spurs fans loved seeing Kobe being taken down. Own up!! You guys must hate LA and the Mavs as much as we do, or I am just a drunken shade of my former self with little sense of reality.

[TwoHandJam]

LOL....sorry my basketball memory doesn't allow me to recall everytime an NBA player was suspended and I wasn't going to be bothered to google it. But if you feel the need to ridicule I can take all you can dish. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself man :rolleyes
I'm sorry but "not recalling" that Karl Malone was the dirtiest player of the last couple of decades in the context of the NBA is akin to "not recalling" that earth was proven to be round as opposed to being flat.

If you have to consider using Google to determine whether Malone has ever been suspended then you just don't know much about the NBA. It's that simple. I defy you to find a basketball fan of any team that would disagree.

[SRJ]

Actually, you argument is utterly ridiculous. Where are the mutlitple youtube videos of Diaw repeatedly trying to rip someones arm out?

Dumbass, I was using a hypothetical argument to illustrate how stupid the actual argument sounds.


That is our, Suns fans, point that just gets overlooked by Spurs fans. There are countless videos of Bowen using his "foot defense" and other than Raja Bell no other Suns player, I believe posseses any of these tactics. There is a history with Bowen, whether or not he is found guilty and disciplined by the NBA is not the point. There are many players, fans, and coaches of teams other than the Suns that have repeatedly brought this up. That is our point or at least mine.

"Whether he is found guilty and disciplined by the NBA is not the point"??

Oh my God!

You have just admitted that it doesn't matter what the league says, YOU have made up your mind because a couple of fucking whiners on other teams made up some bullshit about Bowen!

So if the league has never found Bowen guilty, then what the fuck is up? How does Dirty Bruce Bowen keep on getting away with this malfeasance? Do you think the Spurs are favored by Stern and company? Please -- make the argument that David Stern loves to see boring small-market San Antonio win the NBA championship. I dare you.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm sorry but "not recalling" that Karl Malone was the dirtiest player of the last couple of decades in the context of the NBA is akin to "not recalling" that earth was proven to be round as opposed to being flat.
:lol It's funny how someone remembers an obscure foul on Zarko Capybara but forgets whether Karl Malone was ever suspended.

[GSH]

From KPS0001 [That is our, Suns fans, point that just gets overlooked by Spurs fans. There are countless videos of Bowen using his "foot defense" and other than Raja Bell no other Suns player, I believe posseses any of these tactics...There are many players, fans, and coaches of teams other than the Suns that have repeatedly brought this up.]

There are many people who have repeatedly brought up the idea that you are a dumbass...does that make it fact? Well....maybe it does. So how about this? Pull up this video of the first Suns/Spurs playoff game this year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWnWrz71fFI&mode=related&search=

Look at the 10 second mark of the clip. Is that Shawn Marion sticking his feet right where Tony Parker is about to land after shooting a jumper?
Look at the 1:23 mark of the video. Isn't that Shawn Marion submarining Bruce Bowen as he shoots a 3-pointer?
Look at the 1:30 mark. Isn't that Steve Nash sticking his foot under Tony Parker as he shoots a jumper?
And my favorite, the 1:41 mark. Isn't that Steve Nash delivering an intentional head-butt on Tony Parker at a critical point in the game?

Didn't those guys utilize a "foot defense"? Wasn't Nash guilty of an incredibly dirty play that could have resulted in permanent injury to another player? (Not to mention himself.) Aren't those the exact same things Bruce Bowen is guilty of, which means the Suns are dirty players?

My psychic powers tell me that you are now confused. The answer is NO. They are guys playing defense in the NBA, and shit happens. The Suns may not do it as much because...well...they don't play defense as much. For that matter, nobody plays defense (particularly perimeter defense) as much as Bruce Bowen. But you can see that when Shawn Marion flies out to defend a 3, he stretches out and gets his foot under the shooter as much as Bruce Bowen ever has. Is Marion "clean" just because Bowen didn't happen to roll an ankle? Is Bowen dirty because Steve Francis did? Nope.

If you are really interested in the truth, go out and look at the clip of Bruce defending Francis on that 3. Francis launches from a foot outside the 3-point line. Bowen is a foot inside the 3-point line when Francis lands on his foot and rolls the ankle. What does that tell you? Francis jumped forward. Bruce didn't "submarine" him. But Francis claimed that Bruce was dirty, and it got national attention.

Then again...Amare Stoudamire told the national media that he knew he got kicked during the game. We all know now that isn't the case. Don't give me the "where there's smoke there's fire" argument.

[exstatic]

If you know anything about people, you know that what Amare is doing is preparing to lose. He's lining up excuses and slights like a squirrel collects acorns before winter. I was laughing when he was telling the press that he told Bowen to chill during game one. Hey Amare, champions play at a high energy level. Learn or burn.

[SRJ]

Look at the 10 second mark of the clip. Is that Shawn Marion sticking his feet right where Tony Parker is about to land after shooting a jumper?
Look at the 1:23 mark of the video. Isn't that Shawn Marion submarining Bruce Bowen as he shoots a 3-pointer?
Look at the 1:30 mark. Isn't that Steve Nash sticking his foot under Tony Parker as he shoots a jumper?
And my favorite, the 1:41 mark. Isn't that Steve Nash delivering an intentional head-butt on Tony Parker at a critical point in the game?

No on all of those questions, because no one has accused them of playing dirty before. You're only dirty if you've been accused of it a few times.

[ambchang]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/joshuastmarie/amare.jpg
http://greenteaauctions.com/ambchang/bowen_kick_diagram.jpg

[5ToolMan]

Actually, you argument is utterly ridiculous. Where are the mutlitple youtube videos of Diaw repeatedly trying to rip someones arm out?

That is our, Suns fans, point that just gets overlooked by Spurs fans. There are countless videos of Bowen using his "foot defense" and other than Raja Bell no other Suns player, I believe posseses any of these tactics. There is a history with Bowen, whether or not he is found guilty and disciplined by the NBA is not the point. There are many players, fans, and coaches of teams other than the Suns that have repeatedly brought this up. That is our point or at least mine.

The only documented history in regard to Bowen's reported "dirty play" is overwelming evidence that some stars cry when faced with tough defense. And some coaches, owners and players try to work the zebras, especially in the playoffs to get any advantage they can.

Bowen has played the same style of defense for seven years, averaging huge minutes mostly against the other teams very best perimenter offensive threat. If you are concerned with fact, the low amount of fouls, few F1s, no F2s and no suspensions demonstrate he is far from a dirty player.

But why let facts get in the way. You are free to follow all the crying bitches, consiracy theoriest and mindless parrots chirping in the media with no real evidence to demonstrate they are ingaged in rational thought.

Either that, or quit being a gullable crying sack of $hit and pull your head out and join the real World. :smokin

[smeagol]

Amare needs to do his push ups again.

Pussy.

[romad_20]

http://greenteaauctions.com/ambchang/bowen_kick_diagram.jpg


:lol I can't stop laughing. More grain and more paint please!

[myhc]

all these nice pictures pointing out body parts is making me LOL. more dammit more! :toast

[ChumpDumper]

http://greenteaauctions.com/ambchang/bowen_kick_diagram.jpg
THERMITE!


Oops. Wrong forum....

[ambchang]

I have to come here and give props to kps0001, not only did you kept the argument civil (well, as civil as possible) throughout, you are the only one who showed up after more and more evidence showed Amare made stuff up, unlike those who just disappeared, or worse, claim to be sick of the topic and start posting Laker-Suns video.

[clubalien]

I always thought that in the NBA the opposite of dirty was soft.. but it seems now the spurs are soft and dirty which is possible I guess.

[Johnny RIngo]

Raja Bell's the dirtiest player in the league. At least Kobe respects Bowen somewhat. Everybody knows that Kobe thinks Raja is a piece of shit after that dirty clothesline. At least Bowen's never tried to kill another player on the court like Raja "Flop till you Drop" Bell.

[kps0001]

I'm sorry but "not recalling" that Karl Malone was the dirtiest player of the last couple of decades in the context of the NBA is akin to "not recalling" that earth was proven to be round as opposed to being flat.

If you have to consider using Google to determine whether Malone has ever been suspended then you just don't know much about the NBA. It's that simple. I defy you to find a basketball fan of any team that would disagree.


Jeez. Give me some credit. Of course I am aware of the history with Karl Malone to know he has been suspended before and known as a dirty player, nice reach there. I couldn't recall or be bothered to recall a specific example as I provided in the other two instances. Does that clear things up for ya?



:lol It's funny how someone remembers an obscure foul on Zarko Capybara but forgets whether Karl Malone was ever suspended.

see above reply ...
:rolleyes




Dumbass, I was using a hypothetical argument to illustrate how stupid the actual argument sounds.

Do you know the definition of hypothetical or hypothesis?

Here you go since I find the need to spell things out in grave detail to some here.

1 a : an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument b : an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action
2 : a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences
3 : the antecedent clause of a conditional statement

I am simply stating your hypothetical argument has some flaws or is not a viable argument, if you will. But I am the dumbass? Isn't the overall purpose of a hypothesis to create dialogue as to the validity of that hypothesis? You seem not to be able to prove your hypothesis that you so cleverly made up. Instead you resort to calling names and using big words you apparently don't know the definitions of in an attempt to sound smart or tough on a message board.

Your argument is utterly ridiculous since you are trying to compare the accusation in question to Boris Diaw who has never been termed a dirty player and in, my opinion and probably everyone else's, is soft as hell. See I can look at my players with objectivity. That is the big difference. I understand completely trying to defend or stand up for your teams players. The fact is many here don't do it due to blind homerism.





"Whether he is found guilty and disciplined by the NBA is not the point"??

Oh my God!

You have just admitted that it doesn't matter what the league says, YOU have made up your mind because a couple of fucking whiners on other teams made up some bullshit about Bowen!



Some of the posters on here are in complete denial that Bowen has ever done anything wrong but the amount of evidence from, what you term " a couple of fucking whiners on other teams made up some bullshit on Bowen!", is proof enough that the subject is not foreign to Spurs fans. Most act as if it is and Bowen is the Dalai Lama.

Other than Raja Bell there is not anyone else on the Suns whose name comes up in the subject as being a dirty player compared with Bowen or anywhere close. Have there been some plays in this series, by Suns players that are dirty, of course. I believe I have said multiple times in my total of around 100 posts here that I didn't think the Bowen thing on Amare was intentional; along with the fact that when you get termed a great defender the dirty player stigma is usually associated with it.

It doesn't matter what the league says about it. Just because the league does nothing about it you call it a "bullshit rep". Well the rep is there. Whether its bullshit or not that depends on how you look at it. I look at it as Bowen being a dirty player plain and simple. A great player as well. Does he do anything illegal? Obviously not. Well a few times but I can't recall specifics :p:

You look at it as if Bowen can't be a dirty player because the league has never seen any reason to suspend him for it. So the league determines he is doing nothing illegal, if you choose, in these instances vocalized by "a couple of fucking whiners on other teams" . Does that absolve him completely of ever being termed a dirty player? We have already determined, Spurs fan alike, that most great defenders are termed dirty players. Is Bowen not a great defender?



So if the league has never found Bowen guilty, then what the fuck is up? How does Dirty Bruce Bowen keep on getting away with this malfeasance? Do you think the Spurs are favored by Stern and company? Please -- make the argument that David Stern loves to see boring small-market San Antonio win the NBA championship. I dare you.

In time he will no longer get away with as much. Just like Kobe and the elbowing incidents. Whether they were intentional or not. Enough people brought it to the attention of the league and/or media and it finally resulted in some disciplinary action being taken.

No I don't buy into the conspiracy theory you bring up. Only to try to provoke something.
:sleep





There are many people who have repeatedly brought up the idea that you are a dumbass...does that make it fact? Well....maybe it does.


I dunno my wife calls me one everyday so you may have a point. But then again those on here who have called me a dumbass seem to not be able to come back and prove anything logically to me without just resorting to more name calling and posting with silver and black spurs glasses on and having any objectivity. Back up some statements with some proof.





So how about this? Pull up this video of the first Suns/Spurs playoff game this year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWnWrz71fFI&mode=related&search=

Look at the 10 second mark of the clip. Is that Shawn Marion sticking his feet right where Tony Parker is about to land after shooting a jumper?
Look at the 1:23 mark of the video. Isn't that Shawn Marion submarining Bruce Bowen as he shoots a 3-pointer?
Look at the 1:30 mark. Isn't that Steve Nash sticking his foot under Tony Parker as he shoots a jumper?
And my favorite, the 1:41 mark. Isn't that Steve Nash delivering an intentional head-butt on Tony Parker at a critical point in the game?

Didn't those guys utilize a "foot defense"? Wasn't Nash guilty of an incredibly dirty play that could have resulted in permanent injury to another player? (Not to mention himself.) Aren't those the exact same things Bruce Bowen is guilty of, which means the Suns are dirty players?

again you bring up one video of our current series, I guess..I didn't really watch it. I have already said there have been dirty plays on both ends. Difference here again is there is a history with Bowen.

[kps0001]

I have to come here and give props to kps0001, not only did you kept the argument civil (well, as civil as possible) throughout, you are the only one who showed up after more and more evidence showed Amare made stuff up, unlike those who just disappeared, or worse, claim to be sick of the topic and start posting Laker-Suns video.


thanks.

:clap

[kps0001]

Raja Bell's the dirtiest player in the league. At least Kobe respects Bowen somewhat. Everybody knows that Kobe thinks Raja is a piece of shit after that dirty clothesline. At least Bowen's never tried to kill another player on the court like Raja "Flop till you Drop" Bell.


wrong. Kobe respects Raja alot. I wouldn't expect a Spurs fan to know but Kobe has praised Raja's D. Kobe was able to get passed it but Spurs fans can't because there isn't a whole lot more to bring up about Raja. Always the Kobe incident. Get over it...Kobe did.

[GrandeDavid]

Stoud's a gash.

[lefty]

HIBACHI !

[phyzik]

So, let me get this straight...

We have gone from a full blown kick to the achilies tendant that could have crippled Amare for a series :rolleyes


to... *GASP*... bruces FUCKING TOE touching the side of Amare's shoe???

HOLLY FUCKING SHIT!!! SUSPENSION!!!! :bang

You Suns fans who have been jerking off over this for the past 3 days can fucking do a favor for humanity and shut the fuck up already.

[spurspf]

Actually, you argument is utterly ridiculous. Where are the mutlitple youtube videos of Diaw repeatedly trying to rip someones arm out?

That is our, Suns fans, point that just gets overlooked by Spurs fans. There are countless videos of Bowen using his "foot defense" and other than Raja Bell no other Suns player, I believe posseses any of these tactics. There is a history with Bowen, whether or not he is found guilty and disciplined by the NBA is not the point. There are many players, fans, and coaches of teams other than the Suns that have repeatedly brought this up. That is our point or at least mine.

Didn't you make some legal arguments a few posts up? The crime: kicking amare. Any prior bad acts would become relevant only if the intent was not clear from the evidence. However, if the act itself is shown conclusively never to have occured, any prior bad acts become "irrelevant".

[LilMissSPURfect]

Look at the 10 second mark of the clip. Is that Shawn Marion sticking his feet right where Tony Parker is about to land after shooting a jumper?
Look at the 1:23 mark of the video. Isn't that Shawn Marion submarining Bruce Bowen as he shoots a 3-pointer?
Look at the 1:30 mark. Isn't that Steve Nash sticking his foot under Tony Parker as he shoots a jumper?
And my favorite, the 1:41 mark. Isn't that Steve Nash delivering an intentional head-butt on Tony Parker at a critical point in the game?




plays that happen in the course of the game.....
:clap

[SANANTOJAMES]

Well now we now that this game will be very exciting

[kps0001]

Didn't you make some legal arguments a few posts up? The crime: kicking amare. Any prior bad acts would become relevant only if the intent was not clear from the evidence. However, if the act itself is shown conclusively never to have occured, any prior bad acts become "irrelevant".

I said there was obvious contact. Which there was. Enough to warrant what Amare did? I don't know but Amare thought so. Whether it was intentional or not nobody will ever know but Bowen. I don't know what legal arguments you are referring to. I don't really know what your purpose is in your spin. Care to elaborate?

[spurspf]

Well I guess hearing a San Antonio fan trying to tell me, a Phoenix fan and resident, something that has yet to be heard of or discussed in Phoenix I should ultimately believe it? SOLID WORK GSH! You would make a great attorney with your hearsay and lack of evidence. :rolleyes

These legal arguments. Which are admissable? And when?

[kps0001]

These legal arguments. Which are admissable?

hahahaha. continue please with where you are going with this because I will admit I am lost here.......

Dude tells me a friend from college that he talked to on the phone gave him some info. I am just asking for a little solid evidence. I got lots of friends from college I can talk to that can give me some info to post or I could just make shits up. There is no difference in the initial post of this thread. Is that admissable Judge Judy?

[kps0001]

plays that happen in the course of the game.....
:clap


well I would sure hope so. :dramaquee

[spurspf]

hahahaha. continue please with where you are going with this because I will admit I am lost here.......

Dude tells me a friend from college that he talked to on the phone gave him some info. I am just asking for a little solid evidence. I got lots of friends from college I can talk to that can give me some info to post or I could just make shits up. There is no difference in the initial post of this thread. Is that admissable Judge Judy?

Funny, so now you admit you were talking out of your ass when referring to the law. Consider this, your argument translates as this, " Even if he didn't kick him, he has kicked people before." That is what this thread is about did he kick him or not you are admiting he did not kick him but still whine about things that Bowen "allegedly' did to other players. :clap

[kps0001]

Funny, so now you admit you were talking out of your ass when referring to the law. Consider this, your argument translates as this, " Even if he didn't kick him, he has kicked people before." That is what this thread is about did he kick him or not you are admiting he did not kick him but still whine about things that Bowen "allegedly' did to other players. :clap


what are you talking about with this law stuff???????

I am asking the original poster, GSH, to provide a little more proof that there is this other angle showing what GSH's college friend stated. Is that hard to grasp or something?

Someone here called me out for proof of what Steve Kerr said about the Duncan and Ginobli being the biggest whiner and flopper in the league. I did so but I don't think GSH can.

[spurspf]

what are you talking about with this law stuff???????

I am asking the original poster, GSH, to provide a little more proof that there is this other angle showing what GSH's college friend stated. Is that hard to grasp or something?

Someone here called me out for proof of what Steve Kerr said about the Duncan and Ginobli being the biggest whiner and flopper in the league. I did so but I don't think GSH can.


See posts above, you called me out. Not my fault you got owned.

[kps0001]

See post above, you called me out. Not my fault you got owned.


are you drunk?


seriously I am not trying to push buttons. Where did I call you out and where did I get owned?

This is great.


HOld on. I am mixing a drink so hopefully I can get on the same level here.





continue. with the calling out and owning. I beg you.

[MadDog73]

Anyway, we were just watching the replay of Game 5 of the 2005 series - damn Amare was a frickin BEAST.


As I said in another thread, we can only hope Amare "hulks out" and tries to take over games and makes it easy for the Spurs to win...

If Spurs can funnel all the points through Amare, we win in 5.

[spurspf]

are you drunk?


seriously I am not trying to push buttons. Where did I call you out and where did I get owned?

This is great.


HOld on. I am mixing a drink so hopefully I can get on the same level here.





continue. with the calling out and owning. I beg you.
Ok, you started with the legal arguments. When it was shown to you that you could not win you resorted to calling me Judge Judy. You started with Bowen kicked him, when that was shown not to be true, you said he touched him. Answer this question, Did Bruce Bowen ever Kick Amare in the shins. Yes or no. No prevaricating. This is what the thread is all about. Did he kick him yes or no?

[Johnny RIngo]

wrong. Kobe respects Raja alot. I wouldn't expect a Spurs fan to know but Kobe has praised Raja's D. Kobe was able to get passed it but Spurs fans can't because there isn't a whole lot more to bring up about Raja. Always the Kobe incident. Get over it...Kobe did.

Yet you Suns homers make Bowen out to be the anti-christ for steping on soft-ass Amare's shoe.

Kobe Bryant on Bowen:

Could Wade guard him? "Please. No way. The best defender I've ever played is Bruce Bowen. It's not even close. What San Antonio does on defense against teams is amazing."

Van Gundy:

Van Gundy said. "Some players, any time a guy competes hard against him, the first word they use is 'dirty'. Because you know they don't want to put as much effort into the game as a guy who competes hard.

"John Stockton, I always heard, was dirty. And I thought he just out-competes people. You have the little whiners who are running for cover anytime the game gets tough."

*cough Amare cough*

Tracy McGrady:

Rockets guard Tracy McGrady also said he has never had a problem facing Bowen.

"I always accepted the challenge of going up against him because he is the best perimeter (defender) in this league," McGrady said.

Nobody respects Bowen cause he's dirty. Yeah right.

[Man of Steel]

I was curious how the Amare story was being received by other teams.

Wow--Laker fans are tearing a new asshole in Amare:

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=41762

[kps0001]

Ok, you started with the legal arguments. When it was shown to you that you could not win you resorted to calling me Judge Judy. You started with Bowen kicked him, when that was shown not to be true, you said he touched him. Answer this question, Did Bruce Bowen ever Kick Amare in the shins. Yes or no. No prevaricating. This is what the thread is all about. Did he kick him yes or no?


The Judge Judy comment was a joke because you were the one that brought up the legal arguments out of nowhere. I am not trying to win anything here. The only legal argument I made was mentioning GSH would make a good argument with his hearsay and lack of evidence. Again a little innocent sarcasm or jab. Meaning give me some solid proof or don't bring the accusation. I wasn't trying to win anything and would like to see this supposed other camera angle. Why don't you get that?

Where did I state Bowen kicked him? are you reading anything that I have posted.

I am not answering you ultimatum since you apparently can't seem to comprehend anything that is going on in this thread as I have explained my stance on the situation in the 5,655,456,654 threads about this subject and you are so far off base it is tiring.

....oh wait I lied I did reference Fortson wanting to sue Colangelo for calling him a thug. Another legal reference.

Neither of which have anything to do with what you are ranting and claiming some victory over. So I ask to you yet again where did I call you out and what specific legal arguments are you referring to?

Until I can see a direct response to that I am really done here because it is simply boring and tiresome having to explain things in grave detail to those that don't get it.

You sir are the one that seems to be prevaricating and even more so just straight out making shit up that I appeared to have said.

[MadDog73]

Holy crap, I really can't wait until tomorrow night...

This total bullshit story of Bowen's "dirty play" is killing me.

[timvp]

85 Amare-got-his-shoe-stepped-on threads is enough. Thread to be merged in 3, 2 . . .

[spurspf]

The Judge Judy comment was a joke because you were the one that brought up the legal arguments out of nowhere. I am not trying to win anything here. The only legal argument I made was mentioning GSH would make a good argument with his hearsay and lack of evidence. Again a little innocent sarcasm or jab. Meaning give me some solid proof or don't bring the accusation. I wasn't trying to win anything and would like to see this supposed other camera angle. Why don't you get that?

Where did I state Bowen kicked him? are you reading anything that I have posted.

I am not answering you ultimatum since you apparently can't seem to comprehend anything that is going on in this thread as I have explained my stance on the situation in the 5,655,456,654 threads about this subject and you are so far off base it is tiring.
Your right I said hearsay or lack of evidence way before you did. Follow the yellow brick road, sorry, follow the thread.
....oh wait I lied I did reference Fortson wanting to sue Colangelo for calling him a thug. Another legal reference.

Neither of which have anything to do with what you are ranting and claiming some victory over. So I ask to you yet again where did I call you out and what specific legal arguments are you referring to?

Until I can see a direct response to that I am really done here because it is simply boring and tiresome having to explain things in grave detail to those that don't get it.

You sir are the one that seems to be prevaricating and even more so just straight out making shit up that I appeared to have said.


So you admit Bowen didn't kick him? Yes or no, that is the only question pertinent here.

[kps0001]

Yet you Suns homers make Bowen out to be the anti-christ for steping on soft-ass Amare's shoe.

Kobe Bryant on Bowen:

Could Wade guard him? "Please. No way. The best defender I've ever played is Bruce Bowen. It's not even close. What San Antonio does on defense against teams is amazing."

Van Gundy:

Van Gundy said. "Some players, any time a guy competes hard against him, the first word they use is 'dirty'. Because you know they don't want to put as much effort into the game as a guy who competes hard.

"John Stockton, I always heard, was dirty. And I thought he just out-competes people. You have the little whiners who are running for cover anytime the game gets tough."

*cough Amare cough*

Tracy McGrady:

Rockets guard Tracy McGrady also said he has never had a problem facing Bowen.

"I always accepted the challenge of going up against him because he is the best perimeter (defender) in this league," McGrady said.

Nobody respects Bowen cause he's dirty. Yeah right.


Ah...another Einstein. You quote me and then follow with all these other quotes that took you god knows how long to gather and your response is totally irrelevant to my quote. Where did I say nobody respects Bowen cause he's dirty or say I didn't respect him?

The quotes were interesting though. I am not gonna be bothered with finding the quotes from Kobe recently about Raja though. You aren't worth my time. Go look it up if you care, which obviously you don't by your above reply to my post.

[Obstructed_View]

I am really done here
Well that lasted all of nine minutes.

[Scumbag]

I was curious how the Amare story was being received by other teams.

Wow--Laker fans are tearing a new asshole in Amare:

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=41762


With the Suns/Lakers past, the Raja/Kobe fight last year, and the little fact we just sent them fishing, take it with a grain of salt.

Get me links to other teams websites forums cause everything I read is anti-bowen.

[spurspf]

Ah...another Einstein. You quote me and then follow with all these other quotes that took you god knows how long to gather and your response is totally irrelevant to my quote. Where did I say nobody respects Bowen cause he's dirty or say I didn't respect him?

The quotes were interesting though. I am not gonna be bothered with finding the quotes from Kobe recently about Raja though. You aren't worth my time. Go look it up if you care, which obviously you don't by your above reply to my post.

You say all I care is about the law or whatever, but I only said so after you pretended to know about the law. I have asked you before did Bowen Kick him or not?

[kps0001]

Well that lasted all of nine minutes.


eh with that guy. its pointless

[Obstructed_View]

eh with that guy. its pointless
Yeah. He's an idiot. :rolleyes

[bobbyjoe]

I was curious how the Amare story was being received by other teams.

Wow--Laker fans are tearing a new asshole in Amare:

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=41762

http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204901

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=3374

Don't forget the Lakers have been bounced from the playoffs by the Suns 2 straight years. Last yr's was a physical, intense series with a hellacious clothesline of Kobe by Raja Bell, another dirty player.

Around the league though, about 90% of neutral NBA fans think Bruce Bowen's play was not only dirty, but had clear intent to injure. His track record is too strong. When the rap sheet reaches Page 10 or 11, the case is pretty much closed. But stay in denial if it helps you feel better. Some still think OJ was innocent and that the Holocaust never happened. Or that 9/11 was a conspiracy and not carried out by Bin Laden.

[kps0001]

Yeah. He's an idiot. :rolleyes


Ok thanks. I promise this is my last response to him. if I do anymore you have my permission to bitch slap me Obstructed_View.


Here is a post of mine from another thread. Why don't you read through my 100 or so posts and you will see the same type of things said more than once.



I fixed that a little. I am one that is on board with Spurs fans on this one. I don't think it was intentional, don't even think he hit Amare, Bowen and Barbosa are nice guys, Bowen is one of if not the best defender in the league and with that comes the "dirty player" label and same can be said for Raja minus the best defender part but still a top defender. SOME Suns fans are bitching way too much about calls but yet still will have no problem calling Spurs the biggest whiners!!!




is there an ignore function on here?

[Kori Ellis]

is there an ignore function on here?

Yes. Go to your control panel and you'll see it in the sidebar. But sometimes it's humorous to continue to read the idiots - so I do not use mine. :lol

[boutons_]

Over the years, Bruce's feet have repeatedly ended up in some pretty weird, smoky positions.

It's understandable for people to claim there's fire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4yz__akIU

Watch the frame-by-frame slo-mo. WTF was Bruce doing with his right foot just as he arrived behind Amare? A spastic. out-of-control move?

Bruce was braking, which you normally do with both feet.

From that video and angle, pretty hard NOT to question what was happening.

And then there's this video. Bruce's right foot,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59vXUjiHRko&NR=1

... going "Evil Dead 2" on him, like Bruce Campbell's hand? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[clubalien]

if bruce didn't kick, but insted put his foot under as to cause amare to land on bowen and not the floor or to trip isn't that still dirty. I thought bowen was known for not giving from for jumpers to land, not out right kickinng someone.

seems trying to trip someone should be bad too.

[SRJ]

Do you know the definition of hypothetical or hypothesis?

Here you go since I find the need to spell things out in grave detail to some here.

1 a : an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument b : an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action
2 : a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences
3 : the antecedent clause of a conditional statement

I am simply stating your hypothetical argument has some flaws or is not a viable argument, if you will. But I am the dumbass? Isn't the overall purpose of a hypothesis to create dialogue as to the validity of that hypothesis? You seem not to be able to prove your hypothesis that you so cleverly made up.

Stop right there.

The Diaw-Ginobili thing was my hypothetical. Again, substitute Stoudemire, Bowen, and kick in place of the hypothetical terms and you'll hear just how stupid the real accusation is.

I called you a dumbass before. That was incorrect. Now it's clear to me that your object is to deliberately misinterpret what I'm saying in order to cast doubt upon my credibility. That's quite an attempt, but just know that I see right through it.

Because you can't honestly argue that what I posted before in regard to Ginobili-Diaw was hypothetical. And you know that.


Instead you resort to calling names and using big words you apparently don't know the definitions of in an attempt to sound smart or tough on a message board.

Woe is me and cry me a river. (As I just pointed out, I know exactly what hypothetical means) Please - as if I'm throwing cuss words around so that all the other posters will think I'm some kind of badass. I don't care what anyone thinks of me - I'm just sick of desparate opponents, looking for any kind of edge at all, trying to malign Bruce Bowen. It's fucking ridiculous.

Bruce Bowen is a physical defender. And when you're physical, the probability that you could inadvertently injure someone is increased. More contact, more active hands and feet, more fouling.

Bruce Bowen's value comes from his defense. Opposing players have an interest in seeing him out of the game, hence the accusations. Their "dirty" accusations are plausible in that Bowen's defense has created some unfortunate, though inadvertent, results like rolled ankles and poked eyes.

However, and this is what you keep dancing around, every time there was an incident, the league ruled that Bowen wasn't guilty of any dirty play. Every time. Why? And this time, don't tell me that "the league eventually will put a stop to it". That's not an answer as to what happened in the past.

Don't you think it's odd that, when you examine the laundry list of Bowen's accusers, not once was he disciplined? Is he just that good at being dirty? Is the league office persistently in the Spurs' corner?


Your argument is utterly ridiculous since you are trying to compare the accusation in question to Boris Diaw who has never been termed a dirty player and in, my opinion and probably everyone else's, is soft as hell. See I can look at my players with objectivity. That is the big difference. I understand completely trying to defend or stand up for your teams players. The fact is many here don't do it due to blind homerism.

I have reiterated that the Diaw-Ginobili thing was hypothetical and demonstrated why the real argument was ridiculous. If you can't figure it out, especially after reading this post, well then what more can I say?

[kps0001]

Stop right there.

The Diaw-Ginobili thing was my hypothetical. Again, substitute Stoudemire, Bowen, and kick in place of the hypothetical terms and you'll hear just how stupid the real accusation is.

I called you a dumbass before. That was incorrect. Now it's clear to me that your object is to deliberately misinterpret what I'm saying in order to cast doubt upon my credibility. That's quite an attempt, but just know that I see right through it.

I am not deliberately misintepreting anything. Could be misinterpreting but not deliberately. I was merely stating how your comparison is not a fair one. I am not casting doubt upon your credibility only your ability to make a fair comparison to try to prove your point. You tried to make an absurd comparison to an event that took place in which there is some history of similar events taking place. Can't you see that? I get what you were trying to do but you failed miserably. That is my point.




Because you can't honestly argue that what I posted before in regard to Ginobili-Diaw was hypothetical. And you know that.

That makes no sense. you said it was hypothetical, I told you what the definition was and proceeded to explain why the hypothesis isn't valid in your argument. YOu now aren't trying to explain to me why you feel it is a good hypothetical but just resort to me not getting it!?!? I wonder how that would go over in an educational setting, not that I am comaring this place to any sort of institution. But imagine yourself in a science class and you come up with, what you think, is a great hypothesis. Your instructor points out the flaws or discredits your hypothesis. Then you simply state to your professor that "I have reiterated that the Diaw-Ginobili thing was hypothetical and demonstrated why the real argument was ridiculous. If you can't figure it out, especially after reading this post, well then what more can I say?" Not that I would compare myself to a professor but I would give you a failing grade.




Woe is me and cry me a river. (As I just pointed out, I know exactly what hypothetical means) Please - as if I'm throwing cuss words around so that all the other posters will think I'm some kind of badass. I don't care what anyone thinks of me - I'm just sick of desparate opponents, looking for any kind of edge at all, trying to malign Bruce Bowen. It's fucking ridiculous.

sounds to me you are the one who is desperate and I dont' get from any of your responses that you truly understand hypothetical or how to deal with it when your hypothetical is proven invalid. you are failing to back up your beloved Bowen because the overwhelming majority of opponents keep stating the same things. Others seem to be able to admit there are some questionable things Bowen does but you cannot. Does the league have a problem with it? Not yet. Amare could either be very wise for what he did or very stupid depending on how the events unfold. We will see.



Bruce Bowen is a physical defender. And when you're physical, the probability that you could inadvertently injure someone is increased. More contact, more active hands and feet, more fouling.

Bruce Bowen's value comes from his defense. Opposing players have an interest in seeing him out of the game, hence the accusations. Their "dirty" accusations are plausible in that Bowen's defense has created some unfortunate, though inadvertent, results like rolled ankles and poked eyes.

I understand all of this. Although I disagree in part with the inadvertent part but I really don't want to keep discussing this. The inadvertent is arguable and never going to lead us to a conclusion as I will state some plays throughout the past aren't and you will claim they all are. So lets just agree to disagree on that one. Thats the big difference. I have no problem stating Raja is a dirty player or in fact has made some really dirty plays. Is it easier because he has been suspended for them? yes. However, again just because the league has not suspended Bowen I contend he is still a dirty player but has done nothing illegal or to warrant a suspension.



However, and this is what you keep dancing around, every time there was an incident, the league ruled that Bowen wasn't guilty of any dirty play. Every time. Why? And this time, don't tell me that "the league eventually will put a stop to it". That's not an answer as to what happened in the past.

I don't think I have been dancing around anything. You seem to be getting ready for tryouts of next seasons dancing with the stars, though. The league will put a stop to it and it has everything to do with what happened in the past. Rules are changed and added quite often for things that have happened in the past as a way to better things moving forward. Not just in the nba but all sports and life in general. Why is that so not logical?



Don't you think it's odd that, when you examine the laundry list of Bowen's accusers, not once was he disciplined? Is he just that good at being dirty? Is the league office persistently in the Spurs' corner?

No i don't think it is odd. Yes I think he is that good at being dirty. He is doing things that will eventually become suspendable infractions. He is that good of a defender that I believe rule changes will follow. Do I think he is the first to ever do the things he has done? No, but he does it with so much frequency that the attention is now unescapable.





Thanks for explaining yourself civilly even though I may not agree with it. Alot of other people can't seem to explain there thoughts on here. You did. I understand things have been heated for a few days due to the accusations being thrown around. It makes it tough for Spurs fans having to defend Bowen. Some just seem to be able to do it without blind homerism. Being a fan of an opposing team we probably won't agree on a lot of things and thats what makes it fun and interesting. To many times people think opposing fans are here they are "trolls". Well alot of the opposing fans really want to know more about others teams and carry on civil conversations and alot are just trolls. The ones that are regulars here that can't seem to respond to anything with anything remotely close to intelligent are no better than some of the "trolls" from opposing teams. Do we all like to make innocent jabs, yes (see above dancing with the stars comment:p:. Things like that I feel are OK. Calling people faggot, pussy, douchebag,etc,etc. all the other names that people through are don't really accomplish anything. Oh well things will probably always be that way.

I like it here and will be here if the Suns win or lose throughout this series. I am not one that comes here to talk shit after a win and disappear if we lose.

I have mad respect for the Spurs, how can one not? I hate them with a passion at the same time because they have owned my team. Does that mean I can't come here and still be civilized, or at least try to? Some of you make it difficult. I am really excited about this series and haven't posted this much on a message board in about 5 years. Unlike some I don't take things personally that are said on message boards. I have been around enough to know that it takes all types to make a community such as this one and a few bad seeds isn't a reflection on all the members. It amuses me that so many can call names and act childish and discredit pretty much everything they say. I wonder if they are like that in real life and how they cope with society. Oh well I am just rambling on.........pointless


Now GO SUNS!!!!

[rayray2k8]

http://cdn.channel.aol.com/channels/0f/02/445a15bb-001b4-0510a-400cb8e1
to suns fans this is not a foul.
:rolleyes

[Fabbs]

it was the edge of Amare's shoe-heel that hit the bottom of Bowen's shoe. Nothing ever touched Stoudamire's Achilles tendon...
What?!
The picture seems to show Bowens tip going exactly into Stoudamires Achilles tendon.