Three dollar gas

[CosmicCowboy]

New personal first today.

I just paid $3.05 per gallon for gas today.

I've paid that and a lot more in LA recently but never in Texas.

Before some of you douche bags flame me for paying too much for gas I have to run premium. Gotta hypertech chip that adds like 80hp and shitloads of torque for towing trailers and stuff. I need it and can afford it.

How the fuck does someone making minimum wage still drive? Gas really IS getting expensive.

[METALMiKE]

supposed to be 4 bucks in the summer

[Pistons < Spurs]

Here in Ann Arbor Michigan, we've been over $3 for the last month or so. As of right now it's $3.29

[fatsack]

god hates michigan.

[leemajors]

around 2.80 in austin.

[NorCal510]

stop crying

4.30 in oaktown

[Pistons < Spurs]

stop crying

4.30 in oaktownthat's fucking ridiculous.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I was in East Texas today visiting some clients... $2.60 a gallon :wow

$2.92 in Dallas :lol

[E20]

Premium is 3.95 here.

[sa_butta]

Ive seen it here in SA for as alow as $2.77, but they are going up.

[Trainwreck2100]

Cali's gas is different, while its still gas they to weird shit to it to cut down on emissions

[KEDA]

I too have to use premium, and I have paid as high as 3.05, but the Wally World off of Bandera and Mainland has it for 2.95, or 2.92 if you get their silly gift card and pay with that.


and yeah, gas is getting stupid.

[Shelly]

I use premium also...good times.

[baseline bum]

Shit... premium out here in LA is usually around $3.60-$3.80.

[01Snake]

Hypertech :lol

[boutons_]

When gas prices look like this:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html

MPG looks like this:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0826/csmimg/p10b.gif

[exstatic]

Everything on the far NE side just went up 8 cents overnight. Fuck.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Cali's gas is different, while its still gas they to weird shit to it to cut down on emissions
ethanol man

govt doesnt care wat the fuel price is, since they get fuel excise tax :(:(

[BacktoBasics]

I have to wonder what price it will actually reach before its just too god damn much. We're at the point now where gas is nearly if not more than the cost of the vehicle itself. Which is too fucking much to begin with considering the return is somewhere around 15%.

Something has to change because I don't see any good coming out of 3-4 dollar gas prices. American economy thrives on disposible income and this takes a serious cut out of that. If they could get it around 2.50 or less its somewhat managable but 4 dollar gas isn't something easily fitted into an average American's budget.

[boutons_]

"I don't see any good coming out of 3-4 dollar gas prices"

Then you're blind. Higher gas/oil prices will stimulate greater transport efficiency, alternatives to oil-based transport, and thereby keep more of the national wealth within national borders rather than shipping 100s of $Bs into the M/E, VZ, RU and other hostile countries.

"this takes a serious cut out of that"

Then buy cars that get 40+ MPG rather than 25- MPG. Simple, isn't it?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Not too many people in this thread have heard of peakoil, obviously. Petrol will continue to increase in price over the long-term* as demand outstrips supply, and the smart money is going into technology and behaviours that lead away from petrol dependency.

Also, we pay $1.30+/L, and the Euros more than $1.50, so you're not doing too badly... ;)

*decade. Short-term price fluctuations are generally due to local market conditions or supply bottlenecks. look out if there is ever a war with Iran, because nearly half the world's oil flows through the Straits of Hormuz...

[dallaskd]

gas is around 3.70 p/g here

[Fillmoe]

yall have it easy if its 3.05..... i had to pay 3.60 this morning for just the regular unleaded..... the premium was close to 4 bucks

[sabar]

It's not getting cheaper ever again. Oil is peaking within 15 years. By 2050 I'm guessing cars won't run on petroleum anymore since it will be needed for plastics and so on instead of just burning it all.

Get more MPG, start a long term investment now.

[Fillmoe]

you mean a hybrid? i heard it costs 10 k after 7 years to get the fuel cell battery changed......

[Good 'N Plenty]

I filled up yesterday for $2.74 a gallon and thought it was a great bargain.

[Jimcs50]

I hope it goes to 6 bucks a gallon just so all these assholes that drive Hummers and huge SUVs(without 4 kids) get what they deserve.

:lol

[boutons_]

"10 k after 7 years to get the fuel cell battery changed"

They're working frantically on lengthening the life of fuel cell electrodes. I just read something about a breakthrough in that area a few days ago. Fuel cell lifetime and replacement expense is a HUGE negative for fuel cell cars.

Here's some new technology for combustion engines, but I don't expect US mfrs to adopt it, maybe the Asian mfrs will. The US auto mfrs are pretty fucked up about innovation.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070510093248.htm

[tlongII]

What pisses me off is that the oil companies are making huge profits right now. They are setting earnings records.

[01Snake]

I hope it goes to 6 bucks a gallon just so all these assholes that drive Hummers and huge SUVs(without 4 kids) get what they deserve.

:lol

Do you think they will actually give a shit? $6 a gallon will hurt the poor MUCH more. Hell, keep raising the price. It will make the roads less crowded. :D

[01Snake]

What pisses me off is that the oil companies are making huge profits right now. They are setting earnings records.

What are companies in business to do? Last time I checked it was to make money. They know that the window of opportunity will not be open forever so you gotta strike while the irons hot.

[Taco]

isn't there a protest for tomorrow May 15th don't buy any gas

I've gotten a couple of emails on this


http://www.sun-herald.com/Newsstory.cfm?pubdate=051407&story=tp3ch7.htm&folder=NewsArchive2

Tuesday may be silent protest at the pump?

Popular e-mail letter encourages consumers not to buy gas Tuesday - but what will it prove?


Some legends die hard. Especially urban ones.

Such as the idea that a one-day nationwide boycott of gasoline is going to put a dent in the sales of the oil conglomerates.

It's known as the "Internet Gas-Out," and no one knows where the message originated, but it has been circulating around the World Wide Web in one form or another for years. Snopes.com, a Web site dedicated to debunking popular myths, says that the revival of the gas-out e-mail is "proof that some bad ideas never go away; they just keep getting recycled year after year."

This year, the gas-out calls for Americans frustrated with rising fuel prices to stay away from the pump on Tuesday. This would purportedly cost Big Oil about $3 billion in sales.

Don't believe it. :lol

First of all, good luck trying to find any records of a 1997 gas-out that lowered prices at all, much less by 30 cents. Secondly, a loss of that multibillion-dollar magnitude presumes everybody in the nation fills their tank every day, so the oil companies would of course notice the $3 billion drop in revenue. If we all filled up our vehicles every day, we'd probably be fighting each other at the pump - rather than fighting Big Oil.

"Folks that do this don't really understand the scope of the industry," said Rayola Dougher of the American Petroleum Institute in Washington, D.C. "Of course it really won't have any impact at all. The only effect will be on the local service station owner, so it may have an adverse impact on their small businesses."

"It's not effective at all," agreed Gregg Laskoski, managing director of public relations for AAA Auto Club South in Tampa. "The reason we say that is because we're simply postponing the inevitable. We're not altering consumer behavior; we're not altering consumption. They're not going to buy on Tuesday, but they're going to buy Monday and Wednesday.

"These types of things pop up from time to time, and they're well-intended, but this kind of tactic isn't likely to be productive."


What may work

That seems like a logical response. But logic doesn't sit well with some folks. For example, Jennifer Westhoven, business anchor for Headline News and CNN in New York, reported earlier this week that for her criticism of the gas-out, she received protests from angry viewers.

Both Dougher and Laskoski were quick with suggestions for tactics that would work, however. But they're just that - work - and a one-day boycott is easier, even if it is ineffective.

"As a priority, we have to get much better at energy efficiency," Dougher said. "If people want to make a difference, they have to consume less over the long term, not the short term."

"If consumers want to look for ways to reduce consumption, there are things they can do that are simple, that are behavioral," Laskoski said.

He rattled off a laundry list of suggestions to reduce overall fuel consumption. For example:

* Try slowing down. The faster the vehicle goes, the more gas it burns.

* Families with more than one vehicle should consolidate errands, doing all in one trip instead of making three separate ones. (And if your family owns more than one car, do it in the vehicle with the best fuel economy.)

* Lighten the load. Significant "dead weight" in the trunk compromises fuel economy. Don't leave your golf clubs in the car all year if you're only going to play once during that time.

* Avoid sudden starts and stops.

* Don't put your air conditioner on in the morning when it's still cool enough to open the window.

* Check air and fuel filters at least twice a year. Clogged filters cause poor engine performance.

* Get a periodic oil change.

"Another thing that's very important - not just for safety, but for gas mileage - is to inflate your tires to the levels recommended by manufacturer. An underinflated tire can cut fuel economy by 2 percent per pound of pressure.

"We also tell people that unless your owner's manual says you need to use premium gasoline, use regular. Some people think they're doing the car a favor by giving it mid-grade or premium, when all they're doing is wasting money."

Shopping around for best price, riding a bicycle instead of a car, when possible, and using a more fuel-efficient vehicle are some of the tactics Dougher added to the list.


Other ways that could affect gas companies

The e-mail message that should circulate to the more than 205 million Internet users in the United States (not a mere 73 million-plus, as the e-mail claims) is one encouraging an en masse change in consumer behavior. That, the experts agree, is the only strategy that might stand a chance of affecting fuel prices.

Perhaps we should take the advice of MSNBC senior producer John Schoen, who suggests making May 15 "Fuel Economy Awareness Day" -- urging drivers to "check the mileage they're getting and review suggestions for improving it" - or better yet, "Shop For A Higher Mileage Car Day."

Either should have a more lasting effect for those who really want to make a dent in the oil companies' profits than avoiding the pump Tuesday.


Go to the Reader's Poll at sun-herald.com to answer how the rising gas prices have changed your habits. Answers will be posted in thenewspaper.


The infamous Internet Gas Out e-mail


One copy of the controversial e-mail being circulated around the nation reads as follows:


Don't pump gas on May 15th


In April 1997, there was a "gas out" conducted nationwide in protest of gas prices. Gasoline prices dropped 30 cents a gallon overnight.


On May 15, 2007, all Internet users are not to go to gas stations in protest of high gas prices. Gas is now more than $3 a gallon in most places.


There are 73 million-plus Americans currently on the Internet network, and the average car takes about $30 to $50 to fill up.


If all users did not go to the pump on the 15th, it would take $2,292,000,000 (that's almost $3 billion) from the oil companies' pockets for just one day, so please do not go to the gas station on May 15th and let's try to put a dent in the Middle Eastern oil industry for at least one day.


If you agree (which I can't see why you wouldn't), resend this to everyone on your contact list.

[Extra Stout]

isn't there a protest for tomorrow May 15th don't buy any gas

I've gotten a couple of emails on this
That protest is a test to see whether or not people are irretrievably stupid.

[Spurminator]

That protest is a test to see whether or not people are irretrievably stupid.


And forgetful.


This happens, like, twice a year.

[BacktoBasics]

"I don't see any good coming out of 3-4 dollar gas prices"

Then you're blind. Higher gas/oil prices will stimulate greater transport efficiency, alternatives to oil-based transport, and thereby keep more of the national wealth within national borders rather than shipping 100s of $Bs into the M/E, VZ, RU and other hostile countries.

"this takes a serious cut out of that"

Then buy cars that get 40+ MPG rather than 25- MPG. Simple, isn't it?Well since you put it that way I feel like I've totally figured life and all its little quirks out. Thanks. I plan to spread the word to all the little people that simply need to just buy a car that gets 40mpg because that will easily offset all of the ramifications for 4 dollar gas prices.

Fuck me why don't we just get cars that get 60mpg and raise the gas prices to 7 dollars a gallon and fix the whole economy while we're at it.

Simple, isn't it?

[Shelly]

i got the gas protest. How many years has that thing been around?

According to Snopes, plenty

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp

[Sportcamper]

Many cars picks & SUV’s require 90 plus octane (premium)...

My 1973 Honda mini trail 90 cc requires 95 octane...Premium in So Cal is $3:50 to $3:75...

[CosmicCowboy]

My 1973 Honda mini trail 90 cc requires 95 octane...Premium in So Cal is $3:50 to $3:75...

Wow....a 73 trail 90...that was a blast from the past...those were some UGLY little bitches...Had my first good motorcycle crash on one of those...ran off into a BIG trench someone had dug right across a trail with a backhoe...probably to keep delinquesnts like me from using it...I was screaming down the trail and ran right off into it and face planted on the wall on the other side...

[Sportcamper]

The one I just finished restoring looks like a mini trail (http://www.wheelsport.on.ca/graphics/vintage/vintage1973hondast90.jpg) (not a step through)...It is really lime green...90 mpg and a Total Babe Magnet Machine...
1973 ST 90... (http://www.wheelsport.on.ca/graphics/vintage/vintage1973hondast90.jpg)

[CosmicCowboy]

The one I just finished restoring looks like a mini trail (http://www.wheelsport.on.ca/graphics/vintage/vintage1973hondast90.jpg) (not a step through)...It is really lime green...90 mpg and a Total Babe Magnet Machine...
1973 ST 90... (http://www.wheelsport.on.ca/graphics/vintage/vintage1973hondast90.jpg)

thats awesome JimBob...bet you knock em dead cruisin the In-n-Out on that macho machine...

[BacktoBasics]

The wood paneling walls really set it off.

[Sportcamper]

Can’t go wrong with wood paneling and a lime green motor scooter...

[BacktoBasics]

Hell no you can't. Its what makes pussy go round round.

[tlongII]

What are companies in business to do? Last time I checked it was to make money. They know that the window of opportunity will not be open forever so you gotta strike while the irons hot.

The profits they are making are obscene. There is no elasticity of demand for gas when the price goes up. I think what they are doing is wrong.

[01Snake]

I think what they are doing is wrong.

You and a lot of other people. However, the oil co's really don't give a shit what Joe Consumer thinks. :lol

[clambake]

remember the old, loud hodaka's?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

you mean a hybrid? i heard it costs 10 k after 7 years to get the fuel cell battery changed......

Yeah, that is a problem.

The bigger problem is that our cities are PLANNED AROUND THE CAR! This is a systemic problem. Everything is based on the premise of infinite oil, which is just absurd. If cities were based around bicycles and public transport, people could easily switch to alternatives to the car which are both far cheaper and less environmentally damaging, but the way things are they are stuck. For eg., Europeans use 1/2 the gas Americans do, and Asians 1/4, because of the way in which their cities are constructed (higher densities, more and better public transport, dedicated motorbike/cycling facilities).

Also, it doesn't help that auto companies decided to circumvent emission standards by reclassifying SUVs and pickups as "light trucks", and as a consequence the average emissions of US cars have RISEN since the early 1980s, despite massive improvements in technology!? A government with balls would have regulated properly, but none of our governments have any balls, and our kids and grandkids will pay for it.

I live in a spread-out city but one with good bike paths, and I started riding my bike everywhere 2 years ago. I have cut my petrol use by 75%. It is possible to change your habits, but it takes a little effort, so most people say "fuck it" and pay the higher prices. :(

It appalls me that my local government keeps building parking lots rather than encouraging people to car pool. If parking cost $25 a day, but was free for cars with 3 or more people, people would get organised and car pool rather than driving one person per car, which is what 95% of people do. At $7.50/day they can't be bothered.

MARK MY WORDS, cheap transport is the major issue of this century. Cheap transport has basically facilitated our economic growth over the last 50 years. Without cheap transport, how do you feed your population, let alone generate all the economic activity that would be untenable without cheap transport? There are over 1,000,000,000 petrol/diesel/kerosine driven vehicles on the planet... what will drive them once the oil is gone? (and don't say hydrogen, because how are we making and storing it, or electricity, once again, how are we generating it? This is a MASSIVE issue faced by humanity. Do a little reading on the subject and you'll know what I mean).

[2Blonde]

TlongII,
Get a clue, Oil companies don't set the price of gas at the pump. Like any other business they would cease to exist without a market. If you're going to trash them then start riding your bike to work every day.


Who's to Blame for High Oil and Gas Prices? by Ben Stein

Executives of the big oil companies have been hauled before the U.S. Senate recently to defend their industry's recent mergers and record profits as American consumers face high oil and gasoline prices. I'm going to defend the big energy companies in this case, since I think they're not the reason for high prices.


Before you write me angry e-mails, dear reader, let me first lay down some street credibility. Yes, I'm a gray-haired guy now. But I've spent a lot of time in my life as an antipoverty lawyer in New Haven, Conn., and in Washington, D.C., helping very poor people with their legal woes. I also spent years as a lawyer working on prosecuting false and deceptive advertising.


Probably the lion's share of my adult life was spent writing about financial fraud for financial publication Barron's, and I helped put a number of fraudulent entities out of business. I also testified against a number of fraudulent managements in lawsuits, both state and federal, and I still often write about injustice in the boardroom.


That being said, I also know how a lynch mob operates. After all, if there's a problem, some cause has to be found. And it's really lovely if the cause can be someone rich and powerful so that we can work off our envy and also take the intoxicating drug of anger. Anger organizes our emotions, lines them up, removes ambiguity, and feels good.


Urge to Crack Down


So, the mob goes after someone to lynch, even if that person is innocent. After all, as the immortal Bob Dylan sang long ago, "A lot of people have knives and forks, and they don't have nothing on their plates, and they have to cut something."


This comes to mind because of the recent actions in the U.S. Senate that attempt to "crack down" on energy companies because the price of oil is so much higher than it used to be and because one large oil concern, Exxon (XOM), is reporting very large profits (after many years of modest earnings).


The crackdown takes the form of preventing oil companies from merging or at least making it much harder for them to merge. The idea is that the energy companies have been fixing prices at artificially high levels, and if they merge, they'll just do it more.


This idea is apparently backed even by someone as wise as Senator Arlen Specter (Rep.-Pa.), Chairman of the Judiciary Committee and a fellow graduate of Yale Law School.


No Conspiracy


The only problem with this idea is that it's based on a totally false premise. The energy companies don't set the price of oil or of gasoline. The prices you pay for heating oil or gasoline aren't set in boardrooms in Texas but in trading rooms at commodities markets all over the world.

Gas prices aren't set in shadowy conferences in shooting lodges, but in rooms of people shouting or punching computer keys in London, New York, and Tokyo. Oil is a world commodity like tin or copper or rubber or coffee. The price is set by traders anticipating supply and demand.


Rumors of war in the Mideast, terrorism against oil platforms in Nigeria, warmer weather in New England, bitter cold in London -- these are what set energy prices. Even the biggest U.S. energy companies are tiny pawns in the game compared with the world market, flotsam and jetsam in the ocean of world oil trading.


So, when prices go up or down, it's not a conspiracy. It's panic or confidence in the market. It's just like what happens on the stock markets every trading day -- greed or fear at work, not at the companies being traded but on the exchanges. The oil companies can either lose or gain from this trading.


Hobbling the Oil Companies


I know this is hard news to digest because who do we hate then?


Well, some think we solve the problem by just hating and blaming the innocent -- in this case, the oil companies, dragging them from their beds, and lynching them. So what if they're innocent? Someone's got to pay.


The only problem is that if we keep punishing the companies that in good faith give us the energy we need to power our lives at market prices -- which sometimes give them a big profit and sometimes give them a small one -- eventually, they'll go away. Or they won't have the ability to do their jobs as well because of all the restrictions we've put on them.


Never mind, some think. A lot of people have knives and forks, and they don't have nothing on their plates, and they have to cut something.
http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/yourlife/2973

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Speaking of gas, I just saw the new 2008 Ford Escape Hybrid and I'm very impressed.

[dave]

boo hoo, its $4.4 per gallon where I am

[johngateswhiteley]

i pay $3.20 for premium in Montana.

[ObiwanGinobili]

New personal first today.

I just paid $3.05 per gallon for gas today.

I've paid that and a lot more in LA recently but never in Texas.

Before some of you douche bags flame me for paying too much for gas I have to run premium. Gotta hypertech chip that adds like 80hp and shitloads of torque for towing trailers and stuff. I need it and can afford it.

How the fuck does someone making minimum wage still drive? Gas really IS getting expensive.

A one month bus pass is $25.

[Taco]

I filled up my truck yesterday (low fuel light just came on):wow :wow :wow $62.00!!! :wow :wow :wow

[spurs=bling]

It was 2.99 yesterday, now its 3.09.

[LuvBones]

Yeah I just saw it at $2.99 by my house. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :madrun

[Taco]

I filled up my truck yesterday (low fuel light just came on):wow :wow :wow $62.00!!! :wow :wow :wow


:pctoss That's it!!!! :pctoss


I'm buying a Scooter!!!

















*











*


http://www.coolerscooterdirect.com/cooler%20scooter%20angled%20view.jpg

[Spurfect]

I wonder if they can make a bike lane on 410.

[Duff McCartney]

People will pay whatever it takes for gas. I'm convinced...douche bags that drive SUVS and Hummers don't care how much they have to pay to look cool and beat small cars.

[exstatic]

Gas has gone up 16 cents in the last 48 hours at my HEB. I gassed up one car yesterday evening and one this morning, and missed 10 cents of that today. Fuck.

[01Snake]

People will pay whatever it takes for gas. I'm convinced...douche bags that drive SUVS and Hummers don't care how much they have to pay to look cool and beat small cars.

Ever considered that a lot of people have SUV's because they need a vehicle that size? :lol Some need them for work, family, etc.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Ever considered that a lot of people have SUV's because they need a vehicle that size? :lol Some need them for work, family, etc.

I call bullshit. You can buy a sedan with a far smaller engine, like 2.6/3L, that will comfortably fit 5 adults and use half the petrol.

Tradesmen and such may need a truck or SUV, but most of the market (and it is a huge market, peaked at something like 40% of new cars in the late 90s) is urbanites who never go off-road and don't need a 6L V8 to drive to work. You want a car for a big family, how about a minivan?

Making excuses for the massive waste of a non-renewable resource like petrol is pitiful. Your kids are going to hate you for it. We, those who have lived from 1975-2025, will go down as the greatest robber-barons in history for wasting oil the way we do. Future generations will rightfully despise us for it.

[01Snake]

I call bullshit. You can buy a sedan with a far smaller engine, like 2.6/3L, that will comfortably fit 5 adults and use half the petrol.

Tradesmen and such may need a truck or SUV, but most of the market (and it is a huge market, peaked at something like 40% of new cars in the late 90s) is urbanites who never go off-road and don't need a 6L V8 to drive to work. You want a car for a big family, how about a minivan?

Making excuses for the massive waste of a non-renewable resource like petrol is pitiful. Your kids are going to hate you for it. We, those who have lived from 1975-2025, will go down as the greatest robber-barons in history for wasting oil the way we do. Future generations will rightfully despise us for it.


Did I say ALL people?? Didn't think so. I need my SUV for business and you can sure as fuck I won't be driving a minivan.

Since your in the crying mood. I've got a big SUV, 2 cars that get about 6mpg and 2 additional cars. I'll think about you every time I mash down on the gas pedal and watch the gas gauge needle drop. :lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Snake, did you even bother to read what I said? I even said that some people need large vehicles for work - I'm not objecting to that. That accounts for about 5% of SUV owners, then there's another 5% who actually do go offroad, leaving 90% who drive these massively wasteful tanks to work. Good job.

You got kids? It's not about me, moron. It's a little thing called "intergenerational concern", ie. leaving the planet in a state that won't disadvantage future generations. At the moment, we're doing a fuck-awful job of it, and most of that is down to foolish, short-sighted selfishness. How in hell can you justify needing 5 cars? What a waste of embodied energy/resources that is, but of course you wouldn't even know what embodied energy is...

You act like the oil will never run out. It will, it is already, and people like you are speeding up the process. Once again, well done for fucking over your kids and grandkids, good job on that. :rolleyes

[Duff McCartney]

Since your in the crying mood. I've got a big SUV, 2 cars that get about 6mpg and 2 additional cars. I'll think about you every time I mash down on the gas pedal and watch the gas gauge needle drop. :lol

Like I said....thank you for proving my point.

I said it once and I'll say it a thousand times...people just don't give a fuck.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Yup, no-one gives a fuck.

As a human ecologist I find it very, very frustrating, but unsurprising. Humans aren't very good at thinking ahead a week from now, let alone 25 or 50 years.

:depressed

I'm actually waiting for someone to come in and say I'm an overreacting hippie communist, but no-one thinks about the scale of resource depletion and environmental problems we face this century.

It was fine to waste things a century ago when there were only 1.2 billion people on the planet (which is ironic because until this generation waste was abhorred), but now we have 6.6 billion, our living standards have gone through the roof, and we are going to start to run out of things like oil, let alone the damage we are doing to climate, oceans, etc.

The scale of the issues is beyond most people, so we're fucked. it's just that most people can't see that yet because it's not right in front of them...

Fuck it, I'm going to bed. :(

[Nbadan]

Like I said....thank you for proving my point.

I said it once and I'll say it a thousand times...people just don't give a fuck.

Oh, they'll be giving a fuck when there is no gas to buy.

[01Snake]

Once again, well done for fucking over your kids and grandkids, good job on that. :rolleyes

Your welcome! Also, you better cancel that flight over here if the Spurs make it to the Finals. That would be a MAJOR waste of gas. :lol

[01Snake]

Oh, they'll be giving a fuck when there is no gas to buy.

By the time there is no more gas, we will have alternatives in place.

[Flea]

I call bullshit. You can buy a sedan with a far smaller engine, like 2.6/3L, that will comfortably fit 5 adults and use half the petrol.

Tradesmen and such may need a truck or SUV, but most of the market (and it is a huge market, peaked at something like 40% of new cars in the late 90s) is urbanites who never go off-road and don't need a 6L V8 to drive to work. You want a car for a big family, how about a minivan?

Making excuses for the massive waste of a non-renewable resource like petrol is pitiful. Your kids are going to hate you for it. We, those who have lived from 1975-2025, will go down as the greatest robber-barons in history for wasting oil the way we do. Future generations will rightfully despise us for it.


I drive a Saturn Relay, a crossover minivan/suv and I NEED it to haul my 4 kids around. A sedan won't cut it when you have backpacks and soccer bags and luggage for travel.

[Duff McCartney]

By the time there is no more gas, we will have alternatives in place.

I'm sorry you think so. I'm convinced...the same way I'm convinced that people just don't give a fuck...oil companies don't give a fuck. I'm sure there will be an amazing alternative to gas...but that won't come until there is a single gallon of gas left in the entire world and WW III is near at hand.

There is just too much money that the oil companies are making for there to be any practical alternative while they can still sell gas.

[01Snake]

There is just too much money that the oil companies are making for there to be any practical alternative while they can still sell gas.

What people need to realizes is that high oil prices is the SOLUTION to PART of the problem........

With high oil prices, other technologies are now viable. With today's prices you are seeing a boom in other technologies and resources (LNG, coal gasification, gas-to-liquids, biodiesel, ethanol, fuel cells, wind, etc.).

Big oil gets a bad wrap. They are publicly traded companies who's shareholders demand results. Today is an up cycle......but we soon forget about $10 bbl oil after the peak in the late 70's/early 80's.

It is a world market.

[jayfmyers]

The scale of the issues is beyond most people, so we're fucked. it's just that most people can't see that yet because it's not right in front of them... :(

Most people can't see that yet because most people don't claim to know what the future holds. You're assuming and predicting that future generations will also depend on petrol.

I hope that our grandchildren won't have to be dependant on oil as we are because there will be better alternatives available and, if so, our "waste" will be the inspiration for these alternatives.

[sa_butta]

For fucks sake, my truck is just eating this shit up. $10 doesnt even get me a 1/4 tank. This really sucks balls.

[Nbadan]

Most people can't see that yet because most people don't claim to know what the future holds. You're assuming and predicting that future generations will also depend on petrol.

I hope that our grandchildren won't have to be dependant on oil as we are because there will be better alternatives available and, if so, our "waste" will be the inspiration for these alternatives.

What else is there in the short term to drive on? what else is on the books in the long-term that might work? 'The World' is using all spare capacity of refined gas already. We don't have the luxury of waiting for future generations to solve this problem. There is no alternative to cheap fuel and we are heading into hurricane season.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Thank you nbadan, exactly, and here's a brief explanation why.


Most people can't see that yet because most people don't claim to know what the future holds. You're assuming and predicting that future generations will also depend on petrol.

I hope that our grandchildren won't have to be dependant on oil as we are because there will be better alternatives available and, if so, our "waste" will be the inspiration for these alternatives.

Yup, and that's because I've done a lot of reading about the nature of our transport systems.

In short, there are over a billion vehicles on the planet, all running on petroleum products. Why? Petrol is a "naturally occurring", high-energy content fuel that is crucially easily transportable. So, are there any other fuels which contain similar levels of energy content and transportability? No. Thus, we have a problem.

You can talk about running vehicles on electricity or hydrogen, but you still have to generate both of these, and neither is very transportable... H2, for example, is far more difficult to contain than natural gas. Also, every time you convert energy from one form to another you lose some energy in the conversion process (entropy, second law of thermodynamics), so producing these sources of energy is very energy inefficient. In order to run the planet's vehicle fleet on electricity you would have to more than double the planet's current electricity generation capacity, a MASSIVE task. How are you going to do that given other demands for electricity which are constantly rising, and the necessary shift towards low-emissions, renewable electricity generation technology? Then, you have to re-equip/replace those 1,000,000,000 vehicles, another MASSIVE task.

My point, you can't just snap your fingers and make the switch occur. It is something that will have to happen over decades at the very least, at a time the world will be scrambling to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from all sources, so where is the electricity going to come from?

Unless we discover mini-cold fusion in the very near future, the nature of transport on the planet will be massively downsized and transformed this century... unless of course your blind faith in technology brings us a miracle.


What people need to realizes is that high oil prices is the SOLUTION to PART of the problem........

Smartest thing you've said in this thread Sanke. Props. Whether people like it or not, the price of energy has been artificially low due to market failure (no accounting for the costs of pollution), and that has enabled our economic expansion. That will come to an end as the oil dries up.

Oh, and I'm not talking out my arse on this stuff. Read the literature, it's all out there for you. The thing is, most people don't want to think about these problems because they are too daunting, and frankly I don't blame them because the problems depress the shit out of me... :depressed

[Good 'N Plenty]

I filled up today for $2.89 gal.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Your welcome! Also, you better cancel that flight over here if the Spurs make it to the Finals. That would be a MAJOR waste of gas. :lol

I have been thinking about this, and if I don't come it will be the reason.

However, while we are throwing stones in glass houses, my annual mileage since 2005 has decreased from around 12,000 miles (about average in Australia) to around 3,000 miles, or about one tank of gas a week to one tank a month, a 75% decrease. Thus, in the last two years I have saved about 18,000 miles of gas on the average Australian consumer. I used much of that saving (about 16,600 miles) to come to SA earlier this year, so if I make this trip I will be dipping into my future carbon savings against the average Australian for about the next year and a half.

I have to weigh that up against the likelihood of the Spurs being in such a good position to win another championship, but then whether I come this year or next makes no difference in energy terms. Also, the embodied energy cost of ONE of your cars is roughly equivalent to the energy I will use to come to SA and back (based on Canberra-SA 8,300 miles). Finally, I will be buying a ticket at the last minute, so the plane will be flying whether I am on it or not.

I probably won't come because of all this, although if i do i will pay for it down the road.

Flea - I didn't say you don't need a big vehicle, but does that big vehicle have to be powered by a 6L V8? No, it can be powered by a 3L engine which uses half as much gas, and would be if there were sane emission standards, but there aren't because Big Oil owns the government, and the bigger the engine, the more gas consumed, the more money Big Oil makes. There is no incentive in the system for efficiency whatsoever, although there would be if govt regulation stepped in with firm vehicle emissions standards. That is my point.

[Duff McCartney]

Big oil gets a bad wrap. They are publicly traded companies who's shareholders demand results. Today is an up cycle......but we soon forget about $10 bbl oil after the peak in the late 70's/early 80's.

It is a world market.

There in is the problem in the big oil...it's a publicly traded company. It's a business..and that's what makes it shitty. This isn't McDonalds...where they sell burgers that people don't have to buy...or Amazon.

Oil/gas are what the world lives on..period. It's almost like making oxygen into a business...where you sell it and run it like a business. The world runs on oil and depends heavily on it...if there were no oil tomorrow..the world would practically destroy itself...how can you have that be a business? If there were no McDonalds tomorrow..the world wouldn't care that much.

[jayfmyers]

My point, you can't just snap your fingers and make the switch occur. It is something that will have to happen over decades at the very least

I'm not saying it will be soon, I'm talking about future generations. I don't know about you but it will be several decades before I have grandchildren.


unless of course your blind faith in technology brings us a miracle.

I don't have blind faith in technology and I never claimed to. I said that I hope that future generations won't have these oil problems. There's a big difference between hope and blind faith.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for conserving energy and am just as annoyed as the next guy when I see a single, urban dude driving a hummer. I have never owned a car that got fewer than about 33 MPG and am getting 37 in my current car. I just think it's too soon to say that we're screwing our kids and our kids' kids.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'm not saying it will be soon, I'm talking about future generations. I don't know about you but it will be several decades before I have grandchildren.

I don't have blind faith in technology and I never claimed to. I said that I hope that future generations won't have these oil problems. There's a big difference between hope and blind faith.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for conserving energy and am just as annoyed as the next guy when I see a single, urban dude driving a hummer. I have never owned a car that got fewer than about 33 MPG and am getting 37 in my current car. I just think it's too soon to say that we're screwing our kids and our kids' kids.

Resource depletion, ie peakoil, means that cheap energy for transport will soon be a thing of the past. We continue to accelerate our use of said products, hence accelerating their depletion and thus increasing the cost of transport to future generations. Said greater costs will percolate throughout the global economy. That is screwing those generations IMHO. Intergenerational equity is a thorny beast.

Oh, and your hope is noble, but my post wasn't about hope it was about the reality of the situation. Over a billion oil-reliant vehicles, and climbing rapidly while oil production is soon to decline. We need to start switching to alternatives NOW, but we're going in exactly the opposite direction, accelerating production of oil-dependent infrastructure and vehicles. Like you I hope this won't create a massive problem in the future, but it's absurd to think it won't IMHO.