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Amuseddaysleeper
05-13-2007, 05:50 PM
http://wisinsider.blogspot.com/2007/05/suns-spurs-game-two-watching-whistles.html

http://wisinsider.blogspot.com/2007/05/breaking-news-spurs-get-more-calls.html


Two articles about the spurs and their "favorable" calls from the refs.

The first article might get a bit boring as it just breakdown each quarter from game 2 and how the calls were given and what the writer thought.

But the second article is much more interesting and discuss WHY the Spurs "get" these calls.



Wednesday, May 09, 2007
Suns-Spurs Game Two: Watching the Whistles

Tonight you all get a special treat. I am always stating both here on the blog and in conversations with friends that the Spurs enjoy an overwhelming advantage in almost every contest when it comes to the officiating. But this is hard to prove. So tonight I decided to watch every single play multiple times and then to watch the close calls in slow motion, in an attempt to ascertain what is really going on. I'm looking for fouls that don't get called, bad calls, and violations that don't get called. And for an added bonus, I am keeping track of "baby" points, which go to overt (and hilarious) complainers and people taking ridiculous flops.

Let's rock.

First Quarter

1st Suns possession - Bowen fouled Nash three times: a block, a push, and a reach. We'll just count it as one uncalled foul.
1st Spurs possession - Thomas gets called for a reach on Duncan, but replays reveal that it was a clean strip.
2nd Suns - Nash makes a nice up fake and gets Bowen to leave his feet and clearly commit a foul, Bowen then complains as if charged with manslaughter.
7th Suns - Duncan and Elson both hammer Amare on a dunk attempt and there is no call; Stoudemire does get a rebound and a call on the follow. I'm still scoring this as a bad no-call, because if Amare doesn't get that rebound, the Suns get screwed badly.
9th Spurs - Duncan takes tough fadeway and it looks like Thomas may have touched his shooting elbow. I'll give Duncan the benefit of the doubt and score this as a bad no-call.
11th Suns - Raja Bell bites it on a rebound attempt. Slow motion reveals he just fell down and that there was no Bowen foul (again, looking at all suspect plays in slow-mo on the TiVo).
12th Suns - Nash circles under the hoop and gets ridden to the ground by Bowen. No call, although it was not that egregious, probably a 50/50 call. I won't tally this one.
15th Spurs - Bell closes out on a Parker jumper, touches Parker on the hip with a fingertip and us called for foul. Maybe the most amazing foul I've seen in the second round. Well, after the call on Pavlovic in the Cavs-Nets game earlier tonight.
15th Spurs (part B) - After an offensive rebound on a Parker missed free throw, Duncan goes into the post, takes three steps (seriously, count them), throws his arms into Stoudemire, and gets the whistle. Amare is straight as an arrow. I honestly don't know what else a defensive player is supposed to do. This is what you would teach a big man at a clinic. In short, Amare gets boned again. Somehow, Steve Kerr doesn't bat an eye (saying only, "the crowd doesn't like it"). I'm telling you, we are all brainwashed. This is the reason I am performing this service tonight.
16th Suns - Classic San Antonio. Horry grabs Diaw, gets called for the obvious foul, turns to the blocked out official and pleads for a Diaw hooking foul. When he realizes the other ref had an easy view of it, he flashes a sheepish grin and raises his hand.
17th Spurs - Duncan, as the trailer, catches the ball at the top of the key, takes a step, and then drags his pivot foot. Obvious travel. No call. Of course, traveling calls are rare in general, so I'll let this one slide.
18th Suns - Barbosa misses a jumper and Diaw appears poised to grab the rebound, but Horry pushes him to the ground. Granted, Diaw acted a bit and the push didn't appear to be that hard, but it was much more blatant than the Bell touch foul on Parker. The crowd goes bonkers. An overreaction on that specific play (encouraged by Diaw's dive), but somewhat understandable given the one-sided nature of the calls.
19th Suns - Amare gets nice position, Nash throws a bounce pass and Duncan reaches around for an easy foul call. He immediately spins around, points at himself, and gives the ref his classic, "Who me? I'm Tim Duncan, you can't possibly be calling a foul on me" face. You stay classy, San Antonio. (I should mention that he then raises his hand like the league's best citizen that he is. Now if he would do that before complaining, I might be impressed.)
21st Spurs - Manu and Duncan run a pick and roll and Bell winds up on the ground with the crowd going crazy. In real time it seems like a classic Raja flop. However, in slow motion, you can see Duncan set the screen, put both hands into Bell's chest, and shove him to the ground. Not only a foul, but a legitimately dirty play. I should mention there was no call. Then, in an effort to waste the good will he has just earned, Bell tries to leg whip Duncan from the ground and trips him up. In fairness to the refs, they don't call this either. Two shady plays, two very obvious fouls, no calls. So this one is a draw.
23rd Suns - Ginobili, trying to draw an offensive foul on a pedestrian Diaw screen (a real 2005 Manu play when he became an uber villain; he's actually reduced that stuff quite a bit, to his credit), accidentally mows over Bell. When called for a foul, he is stunned. This is high comedy.
23rd Spurs - Ginobili puts the struggling Boris Diaw on skates and scores on one of those "off the wrong leg" numbers. I reviewed it because it looked like it might have been a travel, but other than a possible carry (which I would never call, personally, or else I would have to call that on every play of the game), he took the two steps all NBA players get. It just looked like a travel because of the wrong foot thing. So this one was all good.

End of First Quarter - Spurs 25 Suns 19.
Tally:
Uncalled S.A. fouls - 4
Uncalled PHX fouls - 2
Bad calls on S.A. - 0
Bad calls on PHX - 3
"Net" advantage on calls - Spurs +7
Pathetic complaints - S.A. 3, Suns 0
Pathetic flops - Suns 2
"Net" baby factor - Spurs +1
Comments: Easy to see why Suns fans are ready to riot heading into the second quarter. Nothing terribly blatant, but in classic Spurs fashion they have pushed and grabbed and baited their way into a +7 advantage on calls. I'm being as generous toward San Antonio as I can and there is still no other way to score it. And this is a Phoenix home game! The net effect of this is a six-point lead for the Spurs. Also, despite Raja's (not the one where he fell, but the time he tried to sell the push) and Diaw's flops, the Spurs still are bigger babies, because of three hilarious whining displays on blatant calls. These were the kind of "are you kidding me right now?" knee-jerk reactions that make you wonder if they actually practice complaining.

Second Quarter (will reset possession count)

2nd Spurs - Oberto appears to catch Diaw with an elbow, but the slow-mo reveals that Diaw rode him with the hips first. So good call (the refs called the foul on Diaw). Now if only that play was also illegal for Bruce Bowen. Diaw gets dinged in my tally for complaining on this one.
4th Spurs - Oberto goes baseline and is stripped by Diaw. Very hard to see without a different angle, but the slow-mo seems to show Diaw hitting Oberto's wrist. This is probably a 50/50, but in the interest of fighting against my natural bias in this "study," I am chalking this up as a bad no-call in favor of Phoenix.
5th Spurs - Oberto "back taps" an offensive rebound while holding onto Diaw's left arm like a life preserver. I'm calling it a draw though because Diaw was performing some strange face guarding block out technique and was doing a little pushing himself.
5th Suns - Bell is called for a kicked ball, which I didn't even know could be called against an offensive player. He was just trying to pick it up and happened to bobble it into his own feet. Danny Crawford missed this one horribly. It's not part of the systematic officiating advantage that the Spurs usually get (the little shoves and hacks) and that the first quarter bore out, but was still a terrible call. This is more of the "garden variety" crappy NBA officiating.
6th Spurs - This is where you would expect the proverbial makeup call after the Danny Crawford botch job, but instead, they look the other way as Oberto clubs Diaw over the head on a rebound. I don't think much of Diaw, but his only crime here was getting in the way of Oberto's flailing fists.
6th Suns - At first I thought this was the makeup call, as Raja gets an "and one" that didn't look like much in real time. But the slow-mo shows Oberto throwing a forearm shiver into his ribs. If nothing else, this exercise is revealing Oberto to be a pretty despicable fellow.
7th Suns - During a fast break Oberto plants another elbow in Diaw's ribs. If this clown stays in the game it will A) skew the numbers and B) wear me out. This is already four times as long as I anticipated. But it seems there are a lot of close calls in an NBA game, all needing careful analysis if I'm going to come up with anything worthwhile. Still, I'm not counting this one because it was kind of a non-factor.
8th Spurs - This one was close but it appears Diaw hit Ginobili on the arm while trapping a pick-and-roll. Suns get a break here.
10th Spurs - Oberto shoves Marion in the back before receiving the pass, then when he catches and gets the Matrix in the air on a pump fake, gets to the line. Further review shows that Marion got pretty much all ball. You can't block a shot much better.
(Note: unless it really matters, I'm going to stop charting off-the-ball fouls that don't impact the action. Otherwise, Oberto and Bowen are going to screw this whole thing up.)
11th Spurs - Bowen catches a pass and then jumps sideways to shoot a three. Obviously, you can't make a jump stop and then jump with both feet; that is a travel. But AI has been doing this (although his is more of a slide) for years, so we won't harp on it. No harm.
15th Spurs - Amare slaps Horry in the face, but no call. Unfortunately for the Spurs, Horry decides to milk it instead of picking up the ball, so it leads to a fast break layup. The Suns get a favorable call, but give Horry a "baby" point.
22nd Spurs - After a prolonged clean stretch (there was one scramble play that just looked like good hustle by both teams), Parker draws a dubious foul by face planting. After repeat viewings, it is clear that no one in white touched him. This is only made worse by the fact that he took a step, then a jump stop, then another step (a crossover), than picked up his pivot foot. I'm not sure, but I think that is like three traveling violations on one play. Suns get screwed twice on one play, but we'll just count it as one. (The funny thing about Parker's travel is that Marv Albert then exclaimed, "Somehow he found the space!" Yeah, somehow.)
24th Suns - I'm not counting any of these, because of my vow to ignore off-the-ball fouls that don't directly impact the play, but I have to just shake my head in amazement (admiration?) at the stuff that Bowen gets away with. On this play (which ended in a Nash layup), he threw a forearm in Marion's face at one end of the court (as the ball was being inbounded) and then grabbed Kurt Thomas with both arms (to keep him from rolling after a screen) at the other. Some guys would get called for intentional fouls for this stuff.
26th Suns - Unbelievable play. Ginobili tries to flop, doesn't get the call, then wraps his arms and legs around Stoudemire's left leg to keep him from rolling and catching a pass. The ball goes skipping out of bounds and Amare stares at the ref in disbelief as he points down at Ginobili, who is doing his best koala bear impersonation. No call. This is RIGHT in front of Danny Crawford. Even Steve Kerr noted that this was a foul. Danny Crawford is having a rough game.
27th Spurs - Duncan mows over Nash and Pop goes crazy and gets a tech. No one is sure what Pop is upset about, but he definitely gets a "baby" point. Not as pathetic as D'Antoni's outburst in Game One, but still weird and unjustified.

End of Second Quarter - 49-42, Suns (30-17 Suns in quarter).
Tally:
Uncalled S.A. fouls - 2
Uncalled PHX fouls - 3
Bad calls on S.A. - 0
Bad calls on PHX - 3
"Net" advantage on calls - Spurs +2
Pathetic complaints - S.A. 1, Suns 2
Pathetic flops - S.A. 1
"Net" baby factor - Even
Comments: The Spurs only had a +2 call advantage in this quarter and the Suns took advantage with a 30-17 second period.

Third Quarter

Spurs 2nd - Bowen came close to traveling, but kept his pivot foot down. Nothing but a crowd overreaction here.
Suns 2nd - Michael Finley gets called for a phantom foul on a Raja Bell drive. Bell's second free throw goes in and out in classic "ball never lies" fashion.
Spurs 6th - Bell gets called for a very tough blocking foul. Parker basically put his head down and ran him over. Even if Bell wasn't completely "set" or was "still moving," isn't an offensive foul ultimately a player control foul? That said, I'm not scoring this is a bad call, because there are too many charging fouls in general and I refuse to support the constant flopping going on. I don't think Bell flopped here, but he's done it enough that he loses the benefit of the doubt.
Suns 6th - Amare wants a foul call, but Duncan appears to have a clean block. Right before this Bowen accidentally knocked Nash down, which is fine, but then when Nash got back up, he grabbed him around the waist with both hands, which is not fine. I'm not scoring it, but I implore all basketball fans to watch a full game and monitor Bowen's every move. Then tell me that he didn't commit somewhere between 25 and 100 fouls.
Suns 7th - Amare has a monster dunk down the lane. It is funny, because Duncan hit him right on the arm on this one, yet Stoudemire doesn't seem to mind when he still scores. Hey, if he doesn't mind, I don't either. Duncan is off the hook on that one.
Spurs 9th - Thomas does a flawless job on Duncan, only to get a bad break when a loose ball turns into a foul. Good call though.
Spurs 16th - Amare gets away with a hold on Duncan. It is debatable whether it affected the play, because he let go before the pass was thrown. But since I could clearly see him holding Duncan's waist (it almost looked loving, like a slow dance) and since the Suns stole the pass, I'm saying "uncalled Phoenix foul." It is worth noting that this is only the second bad call of the entire third quarter and we've already got seven minutes in the books. By NBA referee standards, this quarter is a freaking Picasso.
Suns 16th - Oberto tries to take a charge, but both feet are clearly inside the restricted area. The he flops in incredible fashion.
Spurs 17th - Tough call on Amare as Duncan puts a forearm into his face, but there is no way around it. Some tough calls are still right calls. Stoudemire has been boned over many times in this series, but not this time.
Spurs 19th - Okay, these are the refs I know and love. Duncan gets away with an awful moving screen and then takes two steps backward before dishing out to Bowen for a three. I might let one or the other slide, but in sequence that counts as an "uncalled San Antonio violation." I'm also giving Kurt Thomas a pathetic flop here for trying to take a shady charge on Manu. Come on, Kurt, you've had a great game, you are better than that.
Suns 19th - Duncan hits Amare on the shooting hand and then across the shoulder, then tops it off with a look of total shock. Then Steve Kerr calls him out for it. Baby point for TD.
Spurs 20th - Funny moment. Oberto gets called for a three-second violation and is completely shocked. On further review, he was in the key for eight seconds.
Spurs 21st Horry gets knocked down after a steal with no call. The shove caused him to travel and they didn't call that either, so this appeared to be one of those plays were the refs just call nothing because they can't be bothered. Probably not the best way to go, but not worth counting in the tally.
Suns 24th - Spurs go crazy wanting a Diaw travel, but the slow-mo shows he took a step with the left, then one with the right. Nothing more than the typical move. Just looked weird, like a Ginobili drive.
Suns 25th - Suns fans want a goal-tending call on Horry and for good reason. He blocked it after it hit the backboard. Whoops.

End of Third Quarter - Suns 71 Spurs 64 (third quarter a 22-22 tie)
Tally:
Uncalled S.A. fouls - 0* (note: Bowen had about 12 alone, but they didn't have a direct impact. Although you could argue that is exactly the genius of his approach, because the refs are probably thinking the same thing I am and therefore not calling them)
Uncalled PHX fouls - 1
Bad calls on S.A. - 1
Bad calls on PHX - 0
Uncalled S.A. violation - 2
"Net" advantage on calls - Even
Pathetic complaints - S.A. 1, Suns 0
Pathetic flops - Spurs 1, Suns 1
"Net" baby factor - Spurs +1
Comments: Much, much, MUCH better job by the officials in this quarter. Which is actually in keeping with my theories on this whole thing. I believe they do their shoddiest work early, because they know it will wind up being overlooked. But as John Hollinger of ESPN is fond of saying, points count the same in the first half as they do in the second.

Fourth Quarter

Spurs 3rd - Ginobili takes three steps (covering about 15 feet) and doesn't get called for traveling. The crowd is, shall we say, displeased.
Suns 10th - Bowen hits Barbosa across the chest. But it is one of those "we'll just call it out of bounds instead" plays, so no harm.
Suns 11th - After Nash throws a pass to Barbosa, Bowen hits Nash in the face. Seriously, watch Bowen for 48 minutes sometime. Really watch him. It will blow your mind. Like that old MTV show Diary, I thought I knew, but I had NO idea.
Suns 14th - Bowen doesn't like a solid screen from Kurt Thomas, so he grabs Thomas' leg then throws an elbow ... then gets posted up for two points.

End of Fourth Quarter - Suns 101 Spurs 81 (fourth quarter 30-17, just like the second quarter)
Tally:
Uncalled S.A. fouls - 2
Uncalled PHX fouls - 0
Bad calls on S.A. - 0
Bad calls on PHX - 0
Uncalled S.A. violation - 1
"Net" advantage on calls - Spurs +3
Pathetic complaints - S.A. 0, Suns 0
Pathetic flops - Spurs 0, Suns 0
"Net" baby factor - None
Comments: The Suns ran away with it in the fourth quarter and at that point, the Spurs literally lost the will to foul.

End of Game Tally:
Uncalled S.A. fouls - 8
Uncalled PHX fouls - 6
Bad calls on S.A. - 1
Bad calls on PHX - 6
Uncalled S.A. violation - 3
"Net" advantage on calls - Spurs +10
"Net" baby factor - Spurs +2


Comments: I learned a lot from this. I learned that when you analyze every single play that a lot of calls that look bad really aren't that terrible. And that a lot of them really are. I learned that it takes about six hours to watch a game this way. I learned that even in a huge Suns win, the Spurs still got the benefit of +10 on the calls. And that was being as fair as humanly possible, giving San Antonio the benefit of the close calls (to balance any natural bias I might have), AND ignoring the 20-25 Bowen and Oberto fouls away from the play. I am more convinced now than ever that the Spurs have an enormous systematic advantage over every other team when it comes to the whistles. Now I just have to figure out why. I will explore this in the next post.








Friday, May 11, 2007
Breaking News: Spurs Get More Calls

Okay, the title was just to get your attention. I have proof of nothing and this is not news (and even if it was, it wouldn't be of the "breaking" variety). It is merely the long-promised post where I theorize the "why" part of this whole "The Spurs get all the calls" examination.

The other night I tried my best to objectively watch every single close call in Game Two, to see if San Antonio was really getting the benefit of the whistles. I admit this is conjecture and opinion and everything else you could use to assail the results, but the findings seemed to indicate that the Spurs enjoyed a sizable advantage when it came to the officiating. And this was on a night where the Suns actually got more breaks than a normal S.A. opponent and that featured a fourth quarter blowout that took the refs out of play. Many in the comments section and in emails have surmised that if the Spurs still enjoyed a healthy advantage in that game, it only proves how massive the edge is on a normal night.

That said, the little "study" I performed (and likely will never repeat due to the six hours it took to watch the game) doesn't really prove anything. All it does is reinforce something that many basketball fans already think: that San Antonio gets more calls than anyone. More to the point, that the Spurs are able to get away with more fouls than any other team in the NBA.

The "why" is of far more interest to me, because it seems almost impossible to explain. Why indeed? The Spurs don't have many likable players. There are stars on the roster, but not much star power in the traditional NBA sense. They are in a small market. They were involved in two NBA Finals this decade (2003 against New Jersey and 2005 against Detroit) that basically nobody watched.

If the Spurs are really getting all these calls (or all these no-calls), which it seems they are, then the explanation would have to be something along the lines of a conspiracy theory, right? The NBA has to "want" this. But as I just pointed out, there appears to be no reason at all why the NBA would want the Spurs to advance year after year, and certainly no reason to instruct its officials to make that happen, at the risk of a major scandal.

So if the league isn't mandating it, what other explanation could there be?

Ultimately, I've narrowed down a few possibilities to one thing and it was suggested the other day by my brother, Drew. He opined that the referees simply process San Antonio's actions differently than they do the actions of other teams. In other words, they've seen Bruce Bowen foul so many times, on so many plays, for so many years, that they just view a Bruce Bowen play differently at this point. Bruce Bowen shoving an offensive player or grabbing a guy's leg looks normal after all these years.

In a previous blog - while hinting at conclusion I would reach in this post - I used the phrase "systematic desensitization." I like it because it sounded good, but also because there might be some truth to it.

Think of television shows. When we watch 24 (or, I guess, when we used to watch 24), Jack Bauer can bit a guy's neck or shoot someone in the face or hang a terrorist with a big metal chain and we barely bat an eye. Spartan warriors can slice off the heads of Xerxes' Immortals and we are are impassive. Yet when Bear Grylls kneels down to chew on some raw zebra flesh during an episode of Man v. Wild, it is enough to cause us to recoil in horror. This is a result of desensitization. We see people get killed on TV all the time, but we don't often watch stranded men devouring the flanks of zebras. So the former is just background noise while the latter is jolting. I'm not bringing this up to blame entertainment for all of society's woes, or anything like that, merely pointing out that we can indeed become desensitized to seeing certain things.

And it seems to follow that the same thing could happen to NBA officials. They are used to Vince Carter avoiding contact at all cost, so when he puts his head down in the lane, they are jolted and start thinking "charge" right away. But if LeBron goes crashing into the lane, they probably have to fight off a yawn. You are far more likely to see James get the benefit of a close call when he flies into the paint, and you will probably also see a lot more no-calls in those situations. They are just used to it. But a Vince Carter collision is like a Yeti sighting - so rare that there is no built-in reaction.

For another comparison, take Bruce Bowen and Quentin Ross. Bowen has been mauling offensive players for years, so nothing really jumps out at you. A forearm to the neck, two hands to the ribs, a foot slid under a shooter, two hands wrapped around a rolling screener, a leg whip ... we've seen it all before. But when Ross came into the league doing a lot of the same things, he was getting called for more fouls than anyone. The guy could barely stay on the court. The refs simply weren't used to it. Now Ross has been around for a while and I'm already noticing that he's getting away with more. A lot more. Part of it is no doubt based on "reputation" and I'm sure Ross has learned a few tricks, but the bigger factor seems to be that refs just get used to it and, in a way, become immune to certain conduct.

Which brings this back to the Spurs. Many have commented over the years on the benefit San Antonio enjoys from having Pop on the bench year after year. There is consistency, a sense of structure, and a collective memory in San Antonio that gives them a big advantage over other teams in the NBA. However, the long reign of Pop might have created another substantial, hard-to-prove, and often overlooked advantage: favorable officiating.

It seems entirely possible that the Spurs have worked to get to this point. That is, when Pop took over, I doubt they got the kind of calls and no-calls that they get now. But he insisted on a physical style of play and stuck with it. And over time, the refs became used to that style of play. They know - even if it isn't conscious knowledge - that every Spurs player is going to push and nudge and clutch and do a little flopping. And they've become so used to seeing it, so hardened and immune to it, so desensitized, that they just no longer recognize it for what it is. This is why I call it "systematic desensitization." Because it is a slow process that has taken place over time, possibly by design.

I can almost imagine Pop lording over a San Antonio practices back in the late 90's saying, "Listen, we're going to get called for a lot of fouls right now. But just stick with it, eventually they won't even notice it anymore."

Indeed, Pop's first full season on the bench (1997-98) saw the Spurs get called for 1,731 personal fouls. By the time Bruce Bowen had a "full" (2,000 minuets) season in San Antonio, that number was down to 1672 in 2002-03. This year, San Antonio got called for just 1,588 fouls. This, despite the fact that the league average for personal fouls has remained pretty constant (22.4 per game in 1997-98, 21.8 in 2002-03, and 22.3 this year). These are obviously rudimentary numbers, but they do tell a bit of a story; and one that seems to reinforce the idea that the Spurs have built a system that - over time - has created a certain immunity where personal fouls are concerned.

And that is how we reach the place we are at now. When the Spurs can literally commit dozens of fouls each night without getting the attention of the refs, the pundits, the fans, or even the opposition. Oh sure, many fans - especially opposing fans - get a sense that something is amiss, and there are probably a few players who shake their heads and wonder why it always seems like the Spurs are getting the calls, but for the most part, nobody seems to take mushc notice.

Well, this might be why. We are all just used to it. Immune. Desensitized.

And - Bruce Bowen aside - my conclusion is that this is far from cheating on the part of the Spurs or a conspiracy on the part of the NBA. It is sheer genius by Coach Pop. And you know what? San Antonio probably deserves it. When you find the best coach in the league and then keep him for the next decade, you have a right to enjoy these sorts of advantages. NBA seasons don't exist in a vacuum, but istead, string together over time. And keeping the same coach and players and style of play is bound to produce benefits. This appears to be one of them.

Okay, now I feel better about things.

Aggie Hoopsfan
05-13-2007, 06:04 PM
Cliff notes version:


I'm a whiny Suns fan, my team has got nothing, so I'll hunt down every conceived slight in the game to cry about

In all seriousness though, the reason the Spurs have less fouls called on them than most teams is because they don't jump at pump fakes all the time and pick up stupid fouls in the process.

I feel sorry for dumbasses like this guy that wasted probably the better part of a day getting his panties in a wad watching tape.

Obstructed_View
05-13-2007, 06:04 PM
1st Suns possession - Bowen fouled Nash three times: a block, a push, and a reach. We'll just count it as one uncalled foul.
I just stopped reading here. It's almost sad that somene would sit up half the night watching a replay just to have an excuse for his team losing.

GrandeDavid
05-13-2007, 06:07 PM
I don't buy the desensitized thing. That's ridiculous. Contact is freaking contact. This guy is onto something when he mentions Pop's long tenure and coaching skills as factors, but you've got to look at the players. They buy into the system, are focused and professional and don't commit many undisciplined fouls. But to assume that refs are "desensitized", that's reaching too much to me.

Kori Ellis
05-13-2007, 06:08 PM
I just stopped reading here. It's almost sad that somene would sit up half the night watching a replay just to have an excuse for his team losing.

And wasn't Parker guarding Nash on the first possession anyway. :lol

Shelly
05-13-2007, 06:09 PM
Sometimes the blogging world isn't a good thing.

cornbread
05-13-2007, 06:11 PM
The best defensive rotations in the league doesn't have anything to do with it???

ChumpDumper
05-13-2007, 06:11 PM
If I use lots of words, maybe they won't be able to tell I'm whining.

jbspurs
05-13-2007, 06:11 PM
I think He forgot to count Amare's travel, after receiving a pass how can you side step first before dribble and not get called for traveling. You know what, I think he didn't count it, because it's countless!!!

Kori Ellis
05-13-2007, 06:11 PM
What's the funniest is "Net" Baby Factor. :lol

He acts like he's Hollinger and has a formula.

exstatic
05-13-2007, 06:18 PM
Quarter 1
First posession: Kurt Thomas grabs a double handful of Duncan Jersey.
...
Lather rinse repeat
...
Quarter 4
Last posession: Kurt Thomas grabs a double handful of Duncan Jersey.

If I were Duncan, I'd have had the ballboy run me out a Sharpie, autograph the fucker, and throw it at KT after the game. It's obvious he wanted Tim's jersey. He kept trying to rip it off of him during play.

ThomasGranger
05-13-2007, 06:19 PM
I am always stating both here on the blog and in conversations with friends that the Spurs enjoy an overwhelming advantage in almost every contest when it comes to the officiating. But this is hard to prove. So tonight I decided to watch every single play multiple times and then to watch the close calls in slow motion, in an attempt to ascertain what is really going on.


The other night I tried my best to objectively watch every single close call in Game Two, to see if San Antonio was really getting the benefit of the whistles.

So, by his own admission, he starts with a premise and then looks for the proof to back it up.

But later, in the following piece, he states he was trying to be objective???

:rolleyes

Obstructed_View
05-13-2007, 06:20 PM
And wasn't Parker guarding Nash on the first possession anyway. :lol
It would be interesting to find that out. I accidentally erased the first two games.

I don't understand how Amare is top three in fouls in the entire NBA for the season and then people expect him not to be in foul trouble against Tim Duncan.

Strike
05-13-2007, 06:23 PM
I pay no mind to dumasses like this who obviously spend too much time in mom's basement.

BradLohaus
05-13-2007, 06:27 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this stat show that the Spurs are called for more fouls than the opposition by 1/4 of a foul per game this postseason? And the Suns get called for fewer fouls than their postseason opponents by an average of over 3 fouls per game?

(Click on Diff under the Fouls heading)

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable3.html?cnf=1&prd=15#top

And we are still shooting the fewest free throw attempts per game this postseason of all 16 playoff teams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=fta&league=nba&season=2007&seasontype=3&avg=pg&order=true&split=0

Jeremy
05-13-2007, 06:34 PM
I just stopped reading here. It's almost sad that somene would sit up half the night watching a replay just to have an excuse for his team losing.


And wasn't Parker guarding Nash on the first possession anyway. :lol

It was game 2 that the article was talking about.

LaMarcus Bryant
05-13-2007, 06:37 PM
Spurs without a doubt got the benefit of the calls in game 3; the refs let both sides play but alot of roughing up happened on nash that didnt get called. Just playing devils advocate (parker and manu both drove it recklessly and got no calls) but if I were a suns fan and saw my two time mvp driving it to the lane with hard body contact and no foul call i'd be legitimately pissed.

YODA
05-13-2007, 06:44 PM
Gee..Lets try some simple logic....The Spurs have long been one of the best Defensive teams. Ill assume that if you are a good D team, that the other team is gonna get alot less shots and thus alot less attempt to get fouled. Now combine this with deciplined players not to get silly fouls and you have a nice little asdvantage. Need more? How the fact we play half court offense. Are we really a running team?? Is there a stat to show the over all amount of attempts by both the spurs and their oppents versus other teams?? not likely., but I bet we would be one of the top teams with fewest attempts combined.

Yoda

PM5K
05-13-2007, 07:02 PM
And wasn't Parker guarding Nash on the first possession anyway. :lol

My bad...

1SUNSFAN
05-13-2007, 07:36 PM
Spurs get the benefits of the calls in EVERY game. If it was called straight up the Suns would be up 3-0. Face it Spurs fans, your team is DIRTY! Your players are DIRTY! And your superstar is BORING! Just hope the zebras pull their heads out so the Suns can win the next 3.

ChumpDumper
05-13-2007, 07:38 PM
Conspiracy!

ambchang
05-13-2007, 07:39 PM
This is a really sad piece, and I will break it down in writing style and logic, rather than pick at it point by point, because quite frankly, I don't have 6 hours to watch the play like the author claimed he did. This also shows that sometimes in an argument, the less points you make, the better.

1) His "fouls" and "non-fouls" are totally subjective, and to him only. Why would his call of what a foul is be more authoritative than 3 NBA referees?

2) His writing style gave too much away on his bias towards the Suns. For example, when there is a non-call on the Spurs, the description is "Bowen to leave his feet and clearly commit a foul, Bowen then complains as if charged with manslaughter". "Clearly" is, quite frankly, clearly a subjective term, while "as if charged with manslaughter" undermines the writer's own subjectivity on the subject. It "clearly" shows who's side he's on.

3) While on a Suns non-call, the description goes "Duncan takes tough fadeway and it looks like Thomas may have touched his shooting elbow.". So if he actually watched the replays multiple times, why would that be a "may"? It MAY be because he is actively using his subjectivity in the subject once again?

4) He puts in multiple instances of calls that went in favour of the Spurs that he didn't count, while not putting any (or so few I missed them) instances that favours the Suns that he didn't call, giving the impression that he is actually doing the Spurs a favour and undercounting it. In reality, he is simply exaggerating the impact of the Spurs. Besides, I find it almost incredible that the refs can miss every single one of the iffy calls that goes in favour of the Suns, they can't even if they tried.

5) In his followup piece, he stated that he has only done this exercise once, and for this game only, yet he stated "it only proves how massive the edge is on a normal night", and explained that the Spurs actually would have benefitted from more non-calls because "this was on a night where the Suns actually got more breaks than a normal S.A. opponent and that featured a fourth quarter blowout that took the refs out of play".

Given that he only did this exercise once, how in the world did he know that this was on a night where the Suns got more breaks than a normal SA opponent? He contradicted himself in back to back sentences.

Also, in a blowout, wouldn't the refs STILL be calling the plays that they were "desensitized" to? Once again, his explanation directly contradicted his findings.

I am not going to argue the desensitize part, because I have absolutely no proof of either way, and it just sounds idiotic to begin with when guys like Fortson are still amongst the lead leaders in fouls/minute.

I am going to argue why the media is biased towards the Suns over the Spurs though:

1) The Suns plays are easier to call. It's much easier to explain a great bounce pass to a cutter for a dunk, than it is to explain rotations on defense without the aid of on-screen graphics. A typical announcer has to talk 2.5 hours of basketball in a typical game, and you can't stop and explain the calls in between. The Suns makes their jobs easier.

2) The Suns draws better ratings. This has been no secret. The higher the ratings, the more views the media gets, thus more revenue.

3) The favourite teams are usually the ones to root against. We saw this with the Lakers in the 80's, the Bulls in the 90's, and then again the Lakers in the 00's. The Spurs are no different.

howbouthemspurs
05-13-2007, 07:51 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! what a loser!

jmard5
05-13-2007, 08:06 PM
Face it Spurs fans, your team plays DEFENSE! Your players play DEFENSE! And your superstar play BORING but (take note) EFFECTIVE basketbal!

Fixed it for you.

anonymous coward
05-13-2007, 08:08 PM
damn biased & incompetent refs!

picnroll
05-13-2007, 08:14 PM
Spurs get the benefits of the calls in EVERY game. If it was called straight up the Suns would be up 3-0. Face it Spurs fans, your team is DIRTY! Your players are DIRTY! And your superstar is BORING! Just hope the zebras pull their heads out so the Suns can win the next 3.
I'm looking forward to the Spurs - Pistons series where the players and fans aren't a bunch of pussies.

GoSpurs21
05-13-2007, 08:18 PM
the most pathetic thing about this suns fan is that he did this for a game where the suns actually won

he must really be the dumbest person to waste all that time on something so meaningless

mjnxn
05-13-2007, 08:34 PM
Jesus Christ suns fans, I think the majority of us DO realize that nash was at the short end of a couple of calls, but how can you say that they also were heavily biased towards the spurs? Parker and Ginobili get hacked EVERY TIME they penetrate (see manu's black eye for further proof) and do not get all the calls. Kurt Thomas was freakn holdin Tim's jersey the entire game and yet no call. What more proof do you want? It's a physical game.

Your team is losing. Sorry we're not the Lakers or any of the other teams in the league that will let your MVP waltz his way through the lane.

L.I.T
05-13-2007, 08:40 PM
After scanning through the articles again, I'm absolutely convinced that this is some sort of elaborate satire. There is no other way to explain it.

duncan2k5
05-13-2007, 09:22 PM
I'm looking forward to the Spurs - Pistons series where the players and fans aren't a bunch of pussies.
wrong series bro...piston fans and players are the worst. especially the players.

ShoogarBear
05-13-2007, 09:27 PM
Quarter 1
First posession: Kurt Thomas grabs a double handful of Duncan Jersey.
...
Lather rinse repeat
...
Quarter 4
Last posession: Kurt Thomas grabs a double handful of Duncan Jersey.
ay.The fact that this pathetic piece of shit didn't once see this completely negates any hope of impartiality in every other word he wrote.

Marcus Bryant
05-13-2007, 09:30 PM
Granted I was at the at&t in the peasant seats, but it seemed to me that the questionable calls evened out.

td4mvp21
05-13-2007, 09:32 PM
I don't really care what Suns fans think about the refs. We won.

T Park
05-13-2007, 09:37 PM
exactly.

The Spurs got away with some bumps on Nash, and the Suns got away with manhandling Duncan, knocking Parker to the floor everytime he went to the hole, Ginobili too, and they didn't get alot of shots out of it.

I mean think about it.

The amount of times Parker, Ginobili, Duncan, all of em, went to the hole, only 24 FTs?

Come on......

FromWayDowntown
05-13-2007, 09:39 PM
Granted I was at the at&t in the peasant seats, but it seemed to me that the questionable calls evened out.

I'll admit that I'm in the same position and that I haven't watched the broadcast. But, from where I stood, it sure seemed like things were pretty even all night long. Nash couldn't get a call, but neither could Parker, despite ending up on the floor after multiple drives. Until Manu came up with a shiner, he couldn't get a call, either.

There might have been some iffiness on Amare's 4th (the offensive foul against Oberto) but I happened to watch Amare run the floor on that possession, saw Oberto get back and saw Amare body him up for position. If Oberto flopped, it was no different than Bell flopping early in the game to create a turnover. In any event, it was (again, from where I stood) the only questionable call on Amare all night. There was a touch foul on a Duncan layup/dunk, but (remarkably, I guess) Duncan got pegged with almost exactly the same call later in the game.

Officials are human -- they'll make some mistakes. I tend to think that, for the most part, NBA officials do care about their craft and want to get things right. Fortunately, for those who are willing to blame the outcome of games on officiating, there are mistakes made and things seem uneven from time-to-time. I'd argue that if you took a completely objective look, the perception of favoritism would erode because, in the end, about the same number of calls are missed both ways as a game progresses.

And, in the end, anyone who goes looking at officiating hoping to find some proof that the three officials are the cause of a team's loss (or a cause of a loss) are weak-minded fans. Make more baskets. Get more stops. Don't allow the officials to make a difference. It's what champions do.

Supergirl
05-13-2007, 09:40 PM
I stopped reading when I noticed you didn't have any notations about Thomas hanging onto Duncan's jersey like he was in love with him.

Borosai
05-13-2007, 09:48 PM
Never, ever refer to shit like that as an article. Ever.

mikekim
05-13-2007, 10:10 PM
Wow...everyone on here that's pointing out the obvious bias in this guy's "analysis" portion is 100% correct...

I tried to see what he was saying, but after actually seeing the game film and verifying the first 2 plays on his "analysis" I said enough was enough...then proceeded to leave a huge comment that was much longer than I intended on his blog...haha

What surprises me even more are all the people in there saying "wow, hey man, great analysis...can you do this for all the games" or "DUDE! I saw the same thing 99% of the time! Wow, we now must be butt-buddies for life!"

Shaolin-Style
05-13-2007, 10:16 PM
Pretty pathetic, and not at all impartial. The authors a suns fans scratching for answers.

Russ
05-13-2007, 10:28 PM
Manu Ginobili is called for a foul at the end of Game 7 on the Spurs' home court when the other team needs three to get to OT.

Where's "systematic desensitization" when you really need it? :bang

dimsah
05-13-2007, 10:36 PM
Judging by the sample size of games (1), and then making a broad judgement by stating "it only proves how massive the edge is on a normal night" is hilarious.

I will assume that the author has never had the pleasure of doing any type of scientific research or statistics.

ShoogarBear
05-13-2007, 10:39 PM
It's a wonder the author has enough synapses to be able to exhale after each breath.

K-State Spur
05-13-2007, 10:46 PM
Foul calls are about positioning. When you are in the correct defensive position (the spurs) you are less likely to get called for fouls than if you are out-of-position more often (the suns).

You want to know why Amare spends so much time in foul trouble? Because he is out of position the whole damn game.

Yeah, Suns fans think they would like the series called closer for guys like Bowen, but would they really? If the refs called every perceived foul that Suns fans think they see, then Tim Duncan would also foul out the entire Suns front line in the first quarter as well.

cly2tw
05-14-2007, 02:11 AM
Manu Ginobili is called for a foul at the end of Game 7 on the Spurs' home court when the other team needs three to get to OT.

Where's "systematic desensitization" when you really need it? :bang

It's about the percentage and average! :rolleyes

1SUNSFAN
05-14-2007, 02:23 AM
The fact that this pathetic piece of shit didn't once see this completely negates any hope of impartiality in every other word he wrote.

DUMB ASSES... all of you... the game where Kurt Thomas was holding Duncan's jersey was a complete different game than the one the author broke down. Now is it that you guys didn't read the entire post because you think it is "untrue" or is it that YOU CAN'T READ! :p:

HELP US JON KERY WE R STUK IN IRAK!

mikekim
05-14-2007, 05:26 AM
DUMB ASSES... all of you... the game where Kurt Thomas was holding Duncan's jersey was a complete different game than the one the author broke down. Now is it that you guys didn't read the entire post because you think it is "untrue" or is it that YOU CAN'T READ! :p:

HELP US JON KERY WE R STUK IN IRAK!

I read the whole post...and specifically verified (comparing his actual words with game film) a couple (literally a couple...and even that seemed like a waste of time) of his "foul call analysis."

Thomas has been hanging onto Duncan all series (including game 2). Now, some of the people here are indeed talking about game 3, but a lot of what they're saying can easily be said about game 2 (or game 1).

ShoogarBear
05-14-2007, 05:29 AM
gaa gaa goo goo

WalterBenitez
05-14-2007, 06:11 AM
I just stopped reading here. It's almost sad that somene would sit up half the night watching a replay just to have an excuse for his team losing.

He also found a couple of non calls in the pregame shoot around :rolleyes

Jimcs50
05-14-2007, 08:01 AM
I agree with this article. The Spurs have always gotten the best of it with the refs.

SAGambler
05-14-2007, 08:14 AM
DUMB ASSES... all of you... the game where Kurt Thomas was holding Duncan's jersey was a complete different game than the one the author broke down. Now is it that you guys didn't read the entire post because you think it is "untrue" or is it that YOU CAN'T READ! :p:

HELP US JON KERY WE R STUK IN IRAK!

Oh, so you are saying he never grabbed Duncans jersey at all in the game the guy is talking about?

Surely you jest........Or is it that you are an idiot?

Borosai
05-14-2007, 08:15 AM
Actually I just saw on ESPN that they are now investigating the Bowen knee now to Nash. I guess A'ntoni's crying has finally payed off. I wouldn't be surprised if they suspended him for tonights game.

James White!

Obstructed_View
05-14-2007, 09:01 AM
if I *snip* saw my two time mvp driving it to the lane with hard body contact and no foul call i'd be legitimately pissed.
Um, your two time MVP drove into the lane a dozen times with hard body contact and no foul call, and you didn't even notice.

DePastino
05-14-2007, 04:33 PM
I'm looking forward to the Spurs - Pistons series where the players and fans aren't a bunch of pussies.

Really?


Apparently the Spurs players are crybabies too. Word is they were fumoing about the reffing after the game.
When you get totally jobbed it's pretty normal to be pissed. It's one think to miss a call or two in crunch time. But to have a clusterfuck of blown calls 5 to 1 going against your team would piss most except the political correct fagazi tough "oh I just suck it up"s. That last five minutes was certainly one of the most one sided screw jobs in a playoffs in a while.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=945077&postcount=99

Obstructed_View
05-14-2007, 04:45 PM
The Suns suffered from blown calls at a 5 to 1 rate in crunch time? Really? Do tell.

DePastino
05-14-2007, 04:57 PM
The Suns suffered from blown calls at a 5 to 1 rate in crunch time? Really? Do tell.

Who cares what the ratio is?

Who even knows how he got that number?

The point is, you guys are just as bad as the people you're bitching about. There is ZERO difference between these scenarios, so don't act like there is. The fans of the losing team in a close game/series piss and moan.

It's like death and taxes.

TampaDude
05-14-2007, 05:14 PM
Quarter 1
First posession: Kurt Thomas grabs a double handful of Duncan Jersey.
...
Lather rinse repeat
...
Quarter 4
Last posession: Kurt Thomas grabs a double handful of Duncan Jersey.

If I were Duncan, I'd have had the ballboy run me out a Sharpie, autograph the fucker, and throw it at KT after the game. It's obvious he wanted Tim's jersey. He kept trying to rip it off of him during play.

:lmao Funniest thing I've read all day! Thanks! :lmao

thousandth
05-14-2007, 06:15 PM
http://wisinsider.blogspot.com/2007/05/suns-spurs-game-two-watching-whistles.html

http://wisinsider.blogspot.com/2007/05/breaking-news-spurs-get-more-calls.html


...Suns 16th - Oberto tries to take a charge, but both feet are clearly inside the restricted area. The he flops in incredible fashion...

Oberto good job drew fouls (Stoudemire´s 4th against he).

Spurs players are dirty? or smart-dirty? :p:

zebras! contact is contact in San Antonio, in Phoenix, anywhere.