Officiating in Game 5

[easjer]

FWD, in another post, has commented on who we might be seeing.

Is anyone concerned about the officiating in game 5?

Is it going to be a case of retaliatory calls designed to even out the injustice of being forced to suspend Amare/Boris? Or better yet (for the tin foil hat crowd), to ensure a 7 game series after all?

Or will it be more like the officiating we saw early in the Nuggets, when fans feared retaliation for the Crawford suspension, but instead got pretty even-handed officiating?

How does the officiating from the previous games play into Game 5, if at all?

***Please note, that whatever happens, it is incumbent on the Spurs, as a championship contender, to adjust to whatever the refs throw at them and play hard through it. They can't rely on calls and bailouts and allow themselves to get frustrated as they did towards the end of Game 4.***

[hater]

Salvatore or Bevetta no doubt.

[Extra Stout]

The officials first and foremost will be looking to make sure the game does not get out of control. That usually meets they will blow the whistle a lot.

[cherylsteele]

The officials first and foremost will be looking to make sure the game does not get out of control. That usually meets they will blow the whistle a lot.
Let's just hope it is consistent.
This game is gonna take forever because of the whistles.

[easjer]

Salvatore or Bevetta no doubt.


Per FWD (since I'm not watching), Salvatore is on tonight in Utah, so not him.

Fryer, Garretson and Callahan have been named as possibles in addition to Bavetta.

[cherylsteele]

Just think if Crawford was still reffing in the league.

[dbreiden83080]

We have got to stop this conspiracy theory crap guys. Sometimes they miss the calls it happens but if you really think that the refs have a bias why even watch the games? Can we please stop acting like these guys are not pro's and don't want to do their job correctly.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Salvatore is calling tonight's game. We'll get Bavetta tomorrow, and he will have Duncan on the bench with two fouls before three minutes are gone in the first to, you know, even it out.

D'Antoni was eerily calm when asked for a response to the suspensions. The only time I've seen the guy that calm about the officiating was during all of game 4 last night, and we all saw what happened then.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

We have got to stop this conspiracy theory crap guys. Sometimes they miss the calls it happens but if you really think that the refs have a bias why even watch the games? Can we please stop acting like these guys are not pro's and don't want to do their job correctly.


You mean the same 'pros' who were being booked first class air fare for their travel, were getting to the airport and downgrading to coach, and pocketing the proceeds?

Great point, they're definitely of the highest character and should be trusted to be impartial :tu

[50 cent]

Definitely Dick the Knick.

[gameFACE]

I totally forgot about Salvatore but he's calling the Warriors/Jazz game right now. I knew Bavetta was out there. Maybe Violet Palmer.

At least Nies and Javie won't be there.

[dbreiden83080]

You mean the same 'pros' who were being booked first class air fare for their travel, were getting to the airport and downgrading to coach, and pocketing the proceeds?

Great point, they're definitely of the highest character and should be trusted to be impartial :tu

What the Fuck are you talking about? If this shit is rigged why watch? Become a WWE fan when you know the shit is fake from the get go.

[dbreiden83080]

Salvatore is calling tonight's game. We'll get Bavetta tomorrow, and he will have Duncan on the bench with two fouls before three minutes are gone in the first to, you know, even it out.

D'Antoni was eerily calm when asked for a response to the suspensions. The only time I've seen the guy that calm about the officiating was during all of game 4 last night, and we all saw what happened then.

Spurs had a few bad calls but they choked game 4. Part of it is on POP who handled Duncan's minutes like shit and then did not get him the ball after the Suns went ahead.

[easjer]

I'm not calling a conspiracy.

But please. You are honestly telling me that officiating is always fair and impartial and never one sided?

Seriously? Did you watch the WCSF, particularly games 3 & 4 last year? Or the Finals last year? Or the Dallas/GS game 2 this year (one of the worst I've ever seen)?

You don't think that after a make-up suspension on Horry that it's unfair to ask how the officiating will go down? It's a fair question. It will make a difference in how the Spurs play, if there is an attempt to even up the series or favor either side.

Naturally, good teams play around the officiating, as I said initially. It shouldn't matter to the Spurs how the game is called - however it's called (fairly, unfairly, hands off, really tightly), they are responsible for adjusting (which the failed to do at the end of Game 4). But I want to know what others think and what others with more experience think is a likely outcome.

[dbreiden83080]

I'm not calling a conspiracy.

But please. You are honestly telling me that officiating is always fair and impartial and never one sided?

Seriously? Did you watch the WCSF, particularly games 3 & 4 last year? Or the Finals last year? Or the Dallas/GS game 2 this year (one of the worst I've ever seen)?

You don't think that after a make-up suspension on Horry that it's unfair to ask how the officiating will go down? It's a fair question. It will make a difference in how the Spurs play, if there is an attempt to even up the series or favor either side.

Naturally, good teams play around the officiating, as I said initially. It shouldn't matter to the Spurs how the game is called - however it's called (fairly, unfairly, hands off, really tightly), they are responsible for adjusting (which the failed to do at the end of Game 4). But I want to know what others think and what others with more experience think is a likely outcome.

I think all the stuff you mentioned is simply looking at it from a fans point of view. The refs would have to decide on their own that they are calling the game in favor of another team. No chance the league tells them to and keeps that quiet in this day and age with the media. Which goes back to the point of them being not professional and screwing up on purpose which i do not believe because if i did there is no point in me watching the games at all.

[easjer]

I think all the stuff you mentioned is simply looking at it from a fans point of view. The refs would have to decide on their own that they are calling the game in favor of another team. No chance the league tells them to and keeps that quiet in this day and age with the media. Which goes back to the point of them being not professional and screwing up on purpose which i do not believe because if i did there is no point in me watching the games at all.


I was unaware that I was to be looking at it from any point of view other than a fan's view.

I never said nor implied that the league was dictating the outcome of the game, except for a passing reference to the tin foil hat wearers.

Although, I do believe that certain officials (Bavetta among them) have a long history of interfering with the game and thinking that their role is something larger than simple interpretation of the rules of the game in live action. I don't think that necessarily means a Stern or league wide conspiracy.

[SA210]

We will get Salvitore before this series is over to do us in for good.
We must overcome that bastard.

[dbreiden83080]

I was unaware that I was to be looking at it from any point of view other than a fan's view.

I never said nor implied that the league was dictating the outcome of the game, except for a passing reference to the tin foil hat wearers.

Although, I do believe that certain officials (Bavetta among them) have a long history of interfering with the game and thinking that their role is something larger than simple interpretation of the rules of the game in live action. I don't think that necessarily means a Stern or league wide conspiracy.

So you feel they are unprofessional on purpose. That they mess with the game to sooth their EGOS. Crawford did that and Stern bounced him from the league, that should say something about where he stands on this issue. NBA officiating is a hard job. As a fan though i can't feel like my team has to play around bad calls being made on purpose because it takes everything away from the purity of the game.

[easjer]

So you feel they are unprofessional on purpose. That they mess with the game to sooth their EGOS. Crawford did that and Stern bounced him from the league, that should say something about where he stands on this issue. NBA officiating is a hard job. As a fan though i can't feel like my team has to play around bad calls being made on purpose because it takes everything away from the purity of the game.

Caught up in the moment, maybe, is a better way to put it. I don't think the league continues to employ refs who make it clear that they have vendettas or agendas against particular players or teams - see Crawford.

But watch a close Bavetta game. He attempts to shift momentum, he does not call things evenly or consistently. He'll swing the calls in favor of a team and after a momentum swing, shift the calls in favor of the other team.

Salvatorre is a fucking loon who should be fired. His officiating is a travesty.

And yes, it does affect the purity of the game, but until you get robots in there to do the job, there will be a certain level of error involved. That's why teams have to play through.

But I worry about seeing more of what we saw in game 4, which was way too heavy on the error, to the point that it appeared pretty lopsided.

[leemajors]

PUNK THE CHEAP SHOTTING SPURS AND GO SUNS!
While tony parker is playing are decoy boris diaw will be feeling up on eva and flipping tony off ha ha!! You guys are a DISCRACE TO NBA
i don't think he's allowed in the arena.

[mxschools258]

I'm a gay Suns fan. Go me.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What the Fuck are you talking about? If this shit is rigged why watch? Become a WWE fan when you know the shit is fake from the get go.

Why watch? Because college basketball is over, Tim Duncan's game is basketball at its purest, and the only other shit on TV right now is baseball :vomit:

If you think the league's refs are objective, why is it that it's gotten to the point we can call the refs ahead of time based on the importance of the game in the series and the overall standing of the series?

Yep, totally random who shows up and how they call the games :rolleyes

[slayermin]

I'm not a big fan of Bavetta but our record is pretty good with him. At this point, nothing will shock me anymore. I am going to take the rest of this series with a grain of salt because if we got one or two calls, down the stretch, that were legit fouls last night, we win game four.

Jack Nies calling that blocking foul on TD against Nash in the 2nd Quarter was a travesty. Mofo was looking right at the play. TD gave him a couple of glares after that one.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So you feel they are unprofessional on purpose. That they mess with the game to sooth their EGOS. Crawford did that and Stern bounced him from the league, that should say something about where he stands on this issue. NBA officiating is a hard job. As a fan though i can't feel like my team has to play around bad calls being made on purpose because it takes everything away from the purity of the game.

It's not about the egos you nitwit. Every game in the playoffs brings anywhere from 4-6 million. Yep, the league has no interest in series being extended to seven games at all.

If you want purity in the game of hoops, go watch some HS or college ball. Stern bounced Crawford because Joey turned it into a him vs. Duncan thing, instead of doing his job as an official to maintain control of the game. And it took him doing it twice in his career to get the boot.

[FromWayDowntown]

From what I can determine, the possiblities for tonight are (in relatively decreasing order of likelihood):

Dick Bavetta
Bernie Fryer
Ron Garretson
Mike Callahan
Tom Washington
Joe Forte

Tony Brothers
Sean Corbin
Michael Smith

Bennett Salvatore
Ken Mauer

Luis Grillo

Scott Foster
Monty McCutchen
Leon Wood

One thing to note, though, is that the officials who work tonight's game will (if historical form holds) not be available to work a Game 7, should it come happen.

[Kevin Blackistone]

I'm more concerned with who will ref game 6. We'll be short handed in that one thanks to an unnecessary extra game for Horry.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm more concerned with who will ref game 6. We'll be short handed in that one thanks to an unnecessary extra game for Horry.

To figure out the possibilities for Game 6, you can scratch off the officials who work tonight's game. You can also strike out the officials who work the Detroit/Chicago game on Thursday night. I think you can also consider the younger officials on my list (specifically, Brothers, Wood, McCutchen, Foster, Corbin, and Smith) to be out of consideration.

[violentkitten]

bavetta and salvatore every night. ;)

[Amare_32]

From what I can determine, the possiblities for tonight are (in relatively decreasing order of likelihood):

Dick Bavetta
Bernie Fryer
Ron Garretson
Mike Callahan
Tom Washington
Joe Forte

Tony Brothers
Sean Corbin
Michael Smith

Bennett Salvatore
Ken Mauer

Luis Grillo

Scott Foster
Monty McCutchen
Leon Wood

One thing to note, though, is that the officials who work tonight's game will (if historical form holds) not be available to work a Game 7, should it come happen.

Ken Mauer worked the Utah game last night. If anything he will be working Game 6.

[nkdlunch]

Joey Crawford will be reinstated for tonights game!!!! :wow

[FromWayDowntown]

Ken Mauer worked the Utah game last night. If anything he will be working Game 6.

Right, I lumped he and Salvatore together because Salvatore worked a game last night, too.

I think it's more likely that the league will have Mauer and/or Salvatore work back-to-back nights, though, than it is that the league will put Grillo, Foster, McCutchen, or Wood on tonight's game.

[SA210]

We will get Salvitore before this series is over to do us in for good.
We must overcome that bastard.

[101A]

If it's unbiased and just happens, then Tim WON'T be in foul trouble early tonight. If it is, as I suspect, less than completely unbiased, Tim will certainly be in foul trouble early - With Horry out, removing Tim from the action is a great equalizer; I believe the refs tonight will do that.

Also, look for a quick "T" on Tim - then he can be removed at any time.

Didn't we all know, after all, which way game 4 would be slanted? Wasn't it? How did we know that would happen before the game, if we weren't all conditioned by the league to expect it?

Do I think games are rigged sometimes? Yes. I don't, however, believe entire series are rigged; that's why I still watch.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Officiating in Game 5


I think there will be 3 of em........ :p: :p: :p:

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

My SWAG:

Bavetta
Fryer
Washington

[timvp]

If this isn't a Dick Bavetta game, I'd be shocked.

[violentkitten]

If it's unbiased and just happens, then Tim WON'T be in foul trouble early tonight. If it is, as I suspect, less than completely unbiased, Tim will certainly be in foul trouble early - With Horry out, removing Tim from the action is a great equalizer; I believe the refs tonight will do that.

Also, look for a quick "T" on Tim - then he can be removed at any time.

Didn't we all know, after all, which way game 4 would be slanted? Wasn't it? How did we know that would happen before the game, if we weren't all conditioned by the league to expect it?

Do I think games are rigged sometimes? Yes. I don't, however, believe entire series are rigged; that's why I still watch.


-15 ft disparity on your home court. nothing to see here, move along.

[Cry Havoc]

If it's unbiased and just happens, then Tim WON'T be in foul trouble early tonight. If it is, as I suspect, less than completely unbiased, Tim will certainly be in foul trouble early - With Horry out, removing Tim from the action is a great equalizer; I believe the refs tonight will do that.

Also, look for a quick "T" on Tim - then he can be removed at any time.

Didn't we all know, after all, which way game 4 would be slanted? Wasn't it? How did we know that would happen before the game, if we weren't all conditioned by the league to expect it?

Do I think games are rigged sometimes? Yes. I don't, however, believe entire series are rigged; that's why I still watch.

Rigged is too strong of a word. I think tilted or slanted is the more appropriate term. The games still decide themselves, but the officials give one team a decided advantage if they need to prolong the series. Quarter 4 of Game 4 was an absolute travesty -- go back and watch Nash set MOVING screens with his FOREARMS. The drive that Bell got free for an easy layup, Nash practically tackled the defender out of the play. The officials blew a LOT of whistles that were less drastic -- or obvious on the Spurs the entire 4th quarter, up until which the officiating had been pretty even with bad calls on both sides.

The 4th quarter was awful, but the Spurs should have won.

I would be STUNNED if the Suns end up with less than 15+ free throws tonight. I would put money on it in Vegas, even. And if they don't shoot 15+ free throws, it will be because Duncan (or worse, Duncan and Bowen) are saddled with drastic early foul trouble.

[wildbill2u]

whoever the refs are, they will have been called to make sure the game doesn't get out of hand.

Whether there will also be a unconscious or conscious bias against the Spurs to 'even things up' is yet to be proved. I think it will occur.

[FromWayDowntown]

My SWAG:

Bavetta
Fryer
Washington

I could see that. That would be one of the all-time, "we need this game called a particular way" crews. Though I might regret hoping for it, I'd like to see Mike Callahan work this game. I don't think he will, though.

I figure that the league almost has to put Finals-level crews (or damned close to it) on the remaining games in this series, just because of the notariety this series is getting. I think you take some of the lesser lights out of the picture (guys like Grillo, Corbin, Brothers, Smith) and stick to the high end, more experienced officials.

With all of that said, I also wouldn't be terribly surprised if the league violated some of its own scheduling rules with officials and recycled guys like Delaney and Crawford to call another game in this series.

[T Park]

I'd be all for Dan Crawford in game 6....

[CaptainLate]

I think there will be 3 of em........ :p: :p: :p:

:clap :clap :clap

[Trainwreck2100]

Salvatore, and Bowen/Duncan combine to play 29 minutes

[spurschick]

Fuck it. Let's not have any refs this game and let the players beat the shit out of each other. Spurs win.

[Winery]

I'd be all for Dan Crawford in game 6....
:lol Man, You're so right. Danny is our true sixth man of the year

[desertlobo]

don't know what everyones complaining about. SA still has to play @ Phoenix against a VERY hostile crowd tonight and I gurantee the league will even this out by putting several of our players in foul trouble. Look for TD and possibly one other of our star players to be in foul trouble to even the playing field. I love the NBA but ultimately its about money and ratings. Go Spurs.

[FromWayDowntown]

Things start to get a little clearer as we get deeper into this series.

Game 6 possiblities are (again, in relative descending order of likelihood):

Dick Bavetta
Mike Callahan
Bennett Salvatore
Ken Mauer
Tom Washington
Joe Forte


Tony Brothers
Sean Corbin
Luis Grillo

Frankly, I think all of the remaining officials in this series come from the top group. Bavetta or Salvatore works Game 6 and the other works Game 7, if it is necessary.

[easjer]

Bavetta will be there for Game 6. He doesn't slant towards one team. He shifts based on how the game is going. That's how he maintains a balanced stat sheet.

If it goes to 7, I would not be surprised to see Salvatore make an appearance.

That's my inexpert take, anyway.

[FromWayDowntown]

Bavetta will be there for Game 6.

That seems highly likely now, given that Salvatore is in Chicago tonight and Bavetta has already worked a game in the Cleveland/New Jersey series.


He doesn't slant towards one team. He shifts based on how the game is going. That's how he maintains a balanced stat sheet.

I'm not entirely sure that I agree with that assessment -- I think Bavetta frequently brings his agenda into games. There's a reason that he's called the Human Series Stretcher in some corners.

I still maintain that officiating doesn't decide the outcomes of games and that champions overcome that sort of stuff. But I wouldn't think that the officiating on Friday night is terribly likely to favor the Spurs.


If it goes to 7, I would not be surprised to see Salvatore make an appearance.

I think you're right about that, too. It would seem inevitable at this point. I suppose the other possibility is that both Bavetta and Salvatore might be in reserve for a possible Game 7, since they are now 2 of the most senior officials in the league. I'd be surprised if that happened, though.

[ShoogarBear]

I suppose the other possibility is that both Bavetta and Salvatore might be in reserve for a possible Game 7, since they are now 2 of the most senile officials in the league.

[FromWayDowntown]

^^^^ That is a better word choice.

[SA210]

Salvitore is salivating over the opportunity to screw us over.
We'll see him if there is a Game 7.

[RonMexico]

Joey Crawford controversially ejects the best player for the Spurs in an important game against the top team in the West in the middle of a playoff run...

David Stern and Stu Jackson "eject" the Suns' most explosive player and his backup in a non media-friendly move in the most important game of this series...

What does all of that mean? That Bavetta is doing Game 6