Ron Raul Out For Speaking The Truth

[Nbadan]

http://thebluerepublic.com/Gallery/albums/noteables/ronpaul.jpg
Body-checked by Giuliani and no foul called!


Columbia, South Carolina — For a man who had just grabbed the spotlight in a nationally televised presidential debate, Ron Paul seemed a little, well, defensive. A few minutes after the debate ended here at the University of South Carolina, Paul, a Republican congressman from Texas, ventured into the Spin Room to talk to reporters, only to find that they wanted to know whether he really blamed the United States for the September 11 terrorist attacks.

“Who did that?” Paul snapped. “Who blamed America?”

“Well, your critics felt that you did.”

“No, I blamed bad policy over 50 years that leads to anti-Americanism,” Paul said. “That’s little bit different from saying ‘blame America.’ Don’t put those words in my mouth.”

“But the policies were bad American policies?”

“We’ve had an interventionist foreign policy for 50 years that has come back to haunt us,” Paul continued. “So that’s not ‘Blame America’ — that’s demagoguing, distorting issues…That’s deceitful to say those kinds of things.”

To many people, however, it did appear that Paul blamed the U.S. for the attacks. A few feet away from where Paul was meeting reporters, Washington lawyer Ted Olson, at the debate to support his friend Rudy Giuliani, was taken aback at what he heard from Paul. “I find it personally offensive and very disturbing,” said Olson, whose wife Barbara died on September 11, “that an American, especially an American member of Congress, can say those things about what happened to cause 9/11.”

It all started when Paul was asked how September 11 changed American foreign policy. “Have you ever read the reasons they attacked us?” Paul answered. “They attack us because we’ve been over there; we’ve been bombing Iraq for ten years…”

Questioner Wendell Goler, of Fox News, asked, “Are you suggesting we invited the 9/11 attack, sir?”

“I’m suggesting that we listen to the people who attacked us and the reason they did it,” Paul said. “They don’t come here to attack us because we’re rich and we’re free. They come and they attack us because we’re over there.”

Enter Giuliani. “May I comment on that?” the mayor said, interrupting the orderly flow of things for the first time in the debate. “That’s really an extraordinary statement. That’s an extraordinary statement, as someone who lived through the attack of September 11, that we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq. I don’t think I’ve heard that before, and I’ve heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11th.”

The audience loved it. As the applause built, Giuliani added, “And I would ask the congressman to withdraw that comment and tell us that he didn’t really mean that.”

Paul didn’t back down, but by cutting in, Giuliani had scored some of the best, and perhaps easiest, points of the night. So much so that advisers from rival campaigns couldn’t quite hide their frustration that Giuliani had moved so quickly. “I don’t think it takes a lot of courage to use Ron Paul as a prop,” said Charlie Black, the longtime GOP strategist who is backing Sen. John McCain. “But he [Giuliani] got his 9/11 credential in there, so congratulations.”

Not quite as OUT as the GOP would like you to believe according to some debate polls. For all the GOP Party attempts to convince the republican voters that they don't want a Ron Paul candidate, the voters are telling the party to stuff it.

FOX NEWS' own private "text message voting" poll shows the following results:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,272493,00.html

— 29% Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

— 25% Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas

— 19% Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani

MSNBC polls show...

May 3rd Debate: Ron Paul- WINNER @ 42% (after 91,000+ total votes)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18421356/

May 15th Debate: Ron Paul- WINNING @ 46% (after 21,000+ total votes)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18659382/

The Corporate-Globalists hijacked the GOP in the 60s, and have been ramping up their agenda ever since. Seems only fitting that now the people, the voters, are taking the party back. And it's got the GOP "elite" terrified.

[whottt]

Iraq had shit to do with 911...

Did he listen?

The major Iraq related issues that Usama cited and used for recruitment purposes was the Iraqui babies being killed because of the sanctions(and possible side effects from depleted Uranium in the first war).

Not just because we were bombing them...we were bombing them to enforce the no fly zone.


In any case...Usama didn't give two shits about Iraq, he wanted to fight Saddam himself and he wanted the Afghan Mujahadeen to defend Saudi Arabia instead of the US when we originally stationed our military there after Iraq invaded Kuwait...however the Sauds know he has designs on ruling Saudi himself(actually he wants to reconstruct the Ottoman Empire and rule that). It's pretty obvious if you listen to him talk, and they wanted no part of him becoming a major power in their country.

And the cause of anti-Americanism isn't merely because of 50 years of our foreign policy, the major impetus behind it was the Soviet Union wanting control of that region...they were the ones that backed and funded the PLO originally. Listen to the rhetoric, it's about 20% stuff we actually did, about 40% what Europe did(with no differentiation) and about 40% complete bullshit.

[smeagol]

US' foreign policy is nothing to be too proud about.

[mookie2001]

i cant believe a neocon would ever win a race paul was in

[mookie2001]

if we compromised and put the constitution first! dam the neocons would get dumped on

[BradLohaus]

Looks like some GOP leaders already want him barred from future debates.

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/base/news-44/117935695635230.xml&storylist=newsmichigan

Paul's best point on this, which I think went completely unaddressed by Giuliani, Hannity and the rest, was when he said that he was simply stating the same comments that the CIA has made in their reports on this subject.
How do you argue with that? You don't. You do just what Giuliani did and just go emotional. If they ban him with the numbers he's been getting after the debates (no matter how they think he got them, spamming or whatever they want to call it) then the corporate electioneering machine will have reached the point that it is unstoppable for the forseeable future.

[Bandit2981]

The reasons Ron Paul stated as to why we were attacked on 9-11 were the exact same reasons the bi-partisan 9-11 Commission reported. Maybe if the other candidates had read the report, it wouldn't have been such a revelation to them.

[George Gervin's Afro]

No one can refute the fact that there are some folks who want to do us harm now because we invaded Iraq. Now before the typical Bush apologists come out and accuse me of blaming America I do not in anway blame America for terrorism. I do want you kool aid drinkers to at least acknowledge that Iraq has brought people ,who were on the fence prior to the liberation experiment, in to the fight. That by definition has made things worse.. ok I'm ready for the petty personnal insults..

[whottt]

No one can refute the fact that there are some folks who want to do us harm now because we invaded Iraq. Now before the typical Bush apologists come out and accuse me of blaming America I do not in anway blame America for terrorism. I do want you kool aid drinkers to at least acknowledge that Iraq has brought people ,who were on the fence prior to the liberation experiment, in to the fight. That by definition has made things worse.. ok I'm ready for the petty personnal insults..


You deserve to be insulted because you somehow thought we were going to fight a war in which no one fought us back...of course there are going to be people join up.

It could be the most unjust war in the world, and people are going to join up to fight in on the unjust side...you simply don't understand the complexity and stupidity of the human spieces.

Some people are just looking for a cause...

Especially when they are born into an oppressive human rights shithole governed by religious, gender and ethnic hatred, like the ME. Because it beats sitting around starving, and it provides an outlet for the outrage at being born into a shitty life...being dealt a shitty hand, and having no voice to speak out with, or you are summarily killed, or imprisoned.

God damn you are detatched from the true nature of the World... and especially in the ME...

It must be nice to sit here in the abundant shelter of this country and get inoxicated on a bunch of bullshit fantasies about how nice life would be if only, it weren't the way it is.


What about the people joining up on our side? You don't give two shits about them, do you?


And people fight back in wars...that's what happens in wars....if no one fought back, it wouldn't be a war.


And seldom are they popular, no matter how justified.


You know what makes a war a popular one?

Winning it.


Fucking, you must be a Buffalo Bills fan or something.

[Bob Lanier]

Ron Paul's out because he's even more of a lunatic than any other major-party candidate, including Kucinich.

Thank democracy for small favors.

[BradLohaus]

Ron Paul's out because he's even more of a lunatic than any other major-party candidate, including Kucinich.

Thank democracy for small favors.

Just like with Giuliani, an ad hominem attack is passing for debate.
How is Ron Paul a lunatic? For having the same belief in the reasons for terrorism as the CIA and 911 commission?

Thank democracy for small favors? How is it democratic to ban a candidate (who is far from the least popular of the 10) from the debates because of his views? That's closer to fascism than democracy/

[Bob Lanier]

How is Ron Paul a lunatic? For having the same belief in the reasons for terrorism as the CIA and 911 commission?
Of course not. He's a lunatic because he's a 'libertarian'. He's a lunatic because he wants to destroy the Federal Reserve. He's a lunatic because he wants the replace fiat money with gold-backed currency. He's a lunatic because he's 'pro-life'. He's a lunatic because for much of the '90s he was a fellow traveler of the various racist and xenophobic 'survivalist'/militia movements.

That he's relatively sane with regard to military policy and is sceptical of liberal interventionism is, while to his credit, not enough to push him out of lunatic territory.

[01.20.09]

I think Ron could kick Rudy's ass.

[BradLohaus]

^^You like the Federal Reserve and fiat money? You like having the value of your money and your purchasing power lowered gradually and perpetually over time?

You do know that it is fiat money that allows our government to run these massive deficits and lead us into never ending war, right? A gold-standard restrains governments from starting unnecessary wars.

Aside from the Federal Reserve Act being unconstitutional, it is also one of the ten planks Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto:

"5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

The Federal Reserve System, created by the Federal Reserve Act of Congress in 1913, is indeed such a "national bank" and it politically manipulates interest rates and holds a monopoly on legal counterfeiting in the United States. This is exactly what Marx had in mind and completely fulfills this plank, another major socialist objective. Yet, most Americans naively believe the U.S. of A. is far from a Marxist or socialist nation."

So is the Federal Income tax, and therfor so is the IRS, which Ron Paul wants to abolish but that you probably love.

"2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

The 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913 (which some scholars maintain was never properly ratified), and various State income taxes, established this major Marxist coup in the United States many decades ago. These taxes continue to drain the lifeblood out of the American economy and greatly reduce the accumulation of desperately needed capital for future growth, business starts, job creation, and salary increases."

Unless you own shares in the Federal Banking system then I can't understand why you would want to keep it around.

[Bob Lanier]

Somehow, in a post containing that much bulk-copied fringe bullshit, the most ridiculous statement happened to be an original:

A gold-standard restrains governments from starting unnecessary wars.
Have a dancing purple elephant on me. :elephant
By the way, although I am not, no matter what you may believe, a Marxist, this is really nifty:
http://laissez-fairerepublic.com/sickle.gif

[BradLohaus]

I didn't mean to imply that a gold-standard would create world peace. But you can't continue to fight a war if you don't have the gold (or silver or anything else of real value) to pay for it. However, if you can create money out of thin air, you can fight wars indefinitely. So, I guess I sould have said that "A gold standard restrains governments from starting unnecessary wars better than a fiat money standard does. I thought that was implied, but whatever.

"Bulk copied fringe bullshit"
Are you disputing that Karl Mark wanted to establish central banks and progressive income taxes around the world? Here it is in wikipedia if that's what you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_manifesto

10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto

Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Abolition of all right of inheritance.

Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c..[3]

According to the Communist Manifesto, all these were prior conditions for a transition from capitalism to communism (but Marx and Engels later rejected this passage[4]).


I mean, I guess you could read the whole book if you don't believe me or wikipedia and you think this is "fringe bullshit".

[Bob Lanier]

Are you disputing that Karl Mark wanted to establish central banks and progressive income taxes around the world?
I'm disputing that the United States is secretly under the thrall of Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and a Marxian central-banking conspiracy to sap and impurify your precious monetary lifeblood.

[BradLohaus]

I'm disputing that the United States is secretly under the thrall of Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and a Marxian central-banking conspiracy to sap and impurify your precious monetary lifeblood.

I only talked about the fact that the income tax and central banking are 2 pillars of Communism; I never talked about how or why they were established in the U.S.

But here's my 2 cents on your last comment. The Federal Reserve Act and the 16th (income tax) amendment were both created in 1913. That means that 20% of the planks of Marxism were established in the U.S. in the same calender year. If there was zero communist infiltration, indoctrination, subversion or conspiracy at that time, that would have to mean that everyone involved in establishing these two major institutions would have to have been completely unaware that they were putting into U.S. federal law 20% of the planks of the Communist Manifesto. I find that extremely hard to believe. These were highly educated men. Is this proof? No, but it is very suspicious at the least.

[JoeChalupa]

Isn't a debate about discussing different views and ideas?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

If Lanier is right about all of his mr. paul's views then he is indeed far to extremist and racist to be president.

That being said, he is absolutely right about 9/11... this bullshit about terrorist hating freedom is just plain asinine

as to the gold standard thing, i was just reading an article on this today and since im sure her articulation of this is better than mine could ever be ill leave it to her:



However, US financial power was even more fictional than this. It is usual to contrast the USA’s financial actions after 1919, generally considered ill-thought-out and even irresponsible, though rarely considered in their true political light as described above, with those after 1945, when the USA is generally seen to have acted to put the world’s financial house in order, in a judicious, even altruistic, use of its great financial power, to lay the basis of a multilateral management of the world’s financial affairs. In truth, the Bretton Woods institutions set up after 1945 were designed to serve the USA’s political interests just as much as were those after 1919, albeit in a slightly more enlightened fashion. If they turned out nevertheless to be unstable, this was another element of the tragedy of American diplomacy, this time, its financial diplomacy.
That the world’s money had to now be managed thorough a political mechanism was clear to all acute observers. The questions were in whose interests it would be managed and by what means. As Keynes had noted, gold had functioned well in the 19th century as a stable basis for currency mainly because discoveries of new deposits had, exceptionally in the history of gold as money, kept pace with the expansion of production. The mismatch between productive and monetary expansion without such an exceptional occurrence in the 20th century could be expected to worsen as Fordism expanded productivity to an unprecedented degree. The Age of Gold had ended for another reason also: the Great War had concentrated it in the vaults of central banks—pre-eminently the Federal Reserve—never to be released even to settle matters between central banks, the preferred method being earmarking:
Gold is out of sight—gone back into the soil. But when gods are no longer seen in a yellow panoply walking the earth, we begin to rationalise them; and it is not long before there is nothing left . . . Thus the long age of Commodity Money has at last passed finally away before the age of Representative Money. . . It is not a far step from this to the beginning of arrangements between Central Banks by which, without ever formally renouncing the role of gold, the quantity of metal actually buried in their vaults may come to stand, by a modern alchemy, for what they please, and its value for what they choose.54

RADHIKA DESAI, Head of the Department of Political Studies, University of Manitoba, The last empire? From nation-building compulsion to nation-wrecking futility and beyond, Third World Quarterly, Vol. 28, No. 2, 2007, pp 435– 456, 2007


(P.S. whottt, although you have always been a favorite poster of mine going back to the old game chats, and although i always like your basketball takes, dont bother responding to this because i never read your posts in this forum...way too much ethos and absolutely no logos or pathos....but mainly no logos)

[braeden0613]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy4Eugc0Xls

here is Paul's response to giuliani

Ron Paul in 2008!

[LaMarcus Bryant]

hmmm ron paul, does he even have a shot at the republican nomination though?

[Nbadan]

From Ron Paul...


"...Politics as usual is aided by the complicity of the media. Economic ignorance, bleeding heart emotionalism, and populist passion pervade our major networks and cable channels. This is especially noticeable when the establishment seeks to unify the people behind an illegal, unwise war. The propaganda is well-coordinated by the media/government/military/industrial complex. This collusion is worse than when state- owned media do the same thing. In countries where everyone knows the media produces government propaganda, people remain wary of what they hear. In the United States the media are considered free and independent, thus the propaganda is accepted with less questioning..."

House.gov (http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2006/cr090706.htm)

[Nbadan]

Opposing the Use of Military Force Against Iraq
Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)
October 10, 2002


"I oppose the resolution authorizing military force against Iraq. The wisdom of the war is one issue, but the process and the philosophy behind our foreign policy are important issues as well. But I have come to the conclusion that I see no threat to our national security. There is no convincing evidence that Iraq is capable of threatening the security of this country, and, therefore, very little reason, if any, to pursue a war.

But I am very interested also in the process that we are pursuing. This is not a resolution to declare war. We know that. This is a resolution that does something much different. This resolution transfers the responsibility, the authority, and the power of the Congress to the President so he can declare war when and if he wants to. He has not even indicated that he wants to go to war or has to go to war; but he will make the full decision, not the Congress, not the people through the Congress of this country in that manner.

...But an important aspect of the philosophy and the policy we are endorsing here is the preemption doctrine. This should not be passed off lightly. It has been done to some degree in the past, but never been put into law that we will preemptively strike another nation that has not attacked us. No matter what the arguments may be, this policy is new; and it will have ramifications for our future, and it will have ramifications for the future of the world because other countries will adopt this same philosophy."

Linky (http://www.antiwar.com/paul/paul51.html)

[Nbadan]

Ron Paul Leads FoxNews May 15 2007 Polls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB1laGq62Ac)

[RobinsontoDuncan]

minus his objectivist philosophy I actually like this guy... i would want to see his voting record to see how crazy he really is on social issues though before i totally commit to that.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

dont know if this helps but at least mookie might like it:

www.petitiononline.com/RPRNC08/petition.html

petition to keep all debates free.

[mookie2001]

minus his objectivist philosophy I actually like this guy... i would want to see his voting record to see how crazy he really is on social issues though before i totally commit to that.washington post

[whottt]

Paul needs to spend about 2 years in a Russian Prison...

I suspect both his anti-abortion stance and his, if we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone, stances will undergo a drastic change.

Seems like a relatively smart fellow, except when it comes to the understanding of how shortage of resources and over-population have been the cause of...oh, every single conflict in the history of man.

And believe it or not..."let's leave them alone" has been tried by at least one side in..oh, every single conflict in the history of man.

[mookie2001]

he is against amnesty, which is liberal of him, compared to Bush and McCain

[LaMarcus Bryant]

If we end up paying taxes to the new world order i'll just not pay them and go to jail.

[mookie2001]

you could not pay them now, just dont file or lie on your return, youll incriminate yourself, theres no law anywhere that says we must pay income tax

income tax is DIRECT and UNAPPORTIONED

[smeagol]

If we end up paying taxes to the new world order i'll just not pay them and go to jail.
That is very intelligent of you, sir.

[Oscar DeLa]

I don't know what it is, but when I think of Argentinians, I think of people who are experts in every aspect of 9/11!

[gtownspur]

I don't know what it is, but it seems like all dudes from Victoria have such a strong bond for sticking up for each other.


Ritual masturbations and homoerotic acts in the same room seems to be the only plausible explanation.

[smeagol]

I don't know what it is, but when I think of Argentinians, I think of people who are experts in every aspect of 9/11!
You also believe explosives brought down the WTC? :lmao

And what hit the pentagon was not a plane? :lmao

But of course, you're one of the crowd

And what does "are experts in every aspect of 9/11" mean?

You don't need to be an expert to understand that planes, with terrorists as pilots, were responsible for 9-11.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Argentinians are the only nationality that are privy to all classified sources of 9/11 truth data, so their independent conclusion based on such sources are flawless.

[George Gervin's Afro]

You deserve to be insulted because you somehow thought we were going to fight a war in which no one fought us back...of course there are going to be people join up.

It could be the most unjust war in the world, and people are going to join up to fight in on the unjust side...you simply don't understand the complexity and stupidity of the human spieces.

Some people are just looking for a cause...

Especially when they are born into an oppressive human rights shithole governed by religious, gender and ethnic hatred, like the ME. Because it beats sitting around starving, and it provides an outlet for the outrage at being born into a shitty life...being dealt a shitty hand, and having no voice to speak out with, or you are summarily killed, or imprisoned.

God damn you are detatched from the true nature of the World... and especially in the ME...

It must be nice to sit here in the abundant shelter of this country and get inoxicated on a bunch of bullshit fantasies about how nice life would be if only, it weren't the way it is.


What about the people joining up on our side? You don't give two shits about them, do you?


And people fight back in wars...that's what happens in wars....if no one fought back, it wouldn't be a war.


And seldom are they popular, no matter how justified.


You know what makes a war a popular one?

Winning it.


Fucking, you must be a Buffalo Bills fan or something.

Geez where do I begin. So now your telling me whott that the reson why there are radical muslims is because they lack opportunity?

Well I may not 'understand' the world around me or the 'ME" but destabalizing that region even more than it was before doesn't seem to be a bright idea but I guess since your so 'worldly' you already know that. You say an 'unpopular' war? How about an unecessary war? People would support a war if they could understand why we are fighting it. Many of the folks in the USA have woken up to realize Iraq was the wrong place to start a fight..I know whott you are willing to spill the blood of 10,000 Amerficans so you and your party could save face. Your not stupid whott you'r a coward. And I would tell that to your face.

[01Snake]

I know whott you are willing to spill the blood of 10,000 Amerficans so you and your party could save face.

Is that what your calling blacks these days?

[BradLohaus]

However, US financial power was even more fictional than this. It is usual to contrast the USA’s financial actions after 1919, generally considered ill-thought-out and even irresponsible, though rarely considered in their true political light as described above, with those after 1945, when the USA is generally seen to have acted to put the world’s financial house in order, in a judicious, even altruistic, use of its great financial power, to lay the basis of a multilateral management of the world’s financial affairs. In truth, the Bretton Woods institutions set up after 1945 were designed to serve the USA’s political interests just as much as were those after 1919, albeit in a slightly more enlightened fashion. If they turned out nevertheless to be unstable, this was another element of the tragedy of American diplomacy, this time, its financial diplomacy.
That the world’s money had to now be managed thorough a political mechanism was clear to all acute observers. The questions were in whose interests it would be managed and by what means. As Keynes had noted, gold had functioned well in the 19th century as a stable basis for currency mainly because discoveries of new deposits had, exceptionally in the history of gold as money, kept pace with the expansion of production. The mismatch between productive and monetary expansion without such an exceptional occurrence in the 20th century could be expected to worsen as Fordism expanded productivity to an unprecedented degree. The Age of Gold had ended for another reason also: the Great War had concentrated it in the vaults of central banks—pre-eminently the Federal Reserve—never to be released even to settle matters between central banks, the preferred method being earmarking:Gold is out of sight—gone back into the soil. But when gods are no longer seen in a yellow panoply walking the earth, we begin to rationalise them; and it is not long before there is nothing left . . . Thus the long age of Commodity Money has at last passed finally away before the age of Representative Money. . . It is not a far step from this to the beginning of arrangements between Central Banks by which, without ever formally renouncing the role of gold, the quantity of metal actually buried in their vaults may come to stand, by a modern alchemy, for what they please, and its value for what they choose.54


That's a good find. The point about deflation due to an insufficient money supply has always been the downside of the gold standard. The Free Silver movement in the 19th century was based on parts of the country believing that a lack of money was slowing growth unneccessarily, although there were political motivations as well. A gold standard works best, but if there is not enough gold for the amount of transactions in an economy and there is constant deflation, then the government has to find another form or forms of backing along with gold. No one has found a perfect solution to this problem. Bimetalism - backing the currency with both gold and silver and having the government set the ratio between the two - does not work.

I read not too long ago that if you divided up all the gold in the world equally for every person on earth that's not used in industry or for jewelry, then everyone would get less than an ounce. Whatever the perfect monetary system is, one thing it will do is contain neither deflation or inflation in the long term. A gold standard can do this as long as the economy doesn't grow faster than the gold money supply for a long period, as the article said. A fiat money standard will always contain long term inflation whether it's issued by a central bank or Congress issues it themselves, because the pressure to inflate is always there.

"The Age of Gold had ended for another reason also: the Great War had concentrated it in the vaults of central banks—pre-eminently the Federal Reserve—never to be released even to settle matters between central banks"

I don't see that as a problem for the gold standard. All it would take is one Executive Order and all the assets that the Federal Reserve System shareholders own become the property of the federal government, and the Fed bankers own alot of gold.

[Nbadan]

Back to the original topic, Ron Paul has given Giuliani some homework:


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Texas Rep. Ron Paul questioned former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani's qualifications to be president Thursday, suggesting he would not support him unless he read several specific books and "report back to me."

"No, I don't think he's qualified to be president mainly because of his views," Paul said of his fellow Republican presidential contender during a press conference he called "Educating Rudy." "And no, unless he would read the books and report back to me and say, you know, you've changed my mind -- then I would reconsider."

Paul said he thinks Giuliani is simply misinformed about foreign policy and terrorism. He suggested that the former mayor read four books: "Imperial Hubris" by Michael Scheuer, "Dying to Win" by Robert Pape, "Blowback" by Chalmers Johnson and the 9/11 Commission Report. Paul was joined by Scheuer, the former head of the CIA's Osama bin Laden unit.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/2007/05/gop-opponent-assigns-giuliani-homework.html)

Check out this awesome speech by Paul (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul388.html) he gave it on the house floor last night

[Nbadan]

Interesting article and a sharp word of advice for candidate Paul...

How Can Ron Paul Do It?
By Curt Maynard


I wonder if the average supporter of Ron Paul has really given much thought to the idea of how Ron Paul, a relatively unknown politician from Brazoria County Texas is going to pull off the big win. He certainly deserves it, far more so than any of his likely opponents, men of no character, liars and charlatans really.

My guess is that the average Ron Paul supporter probably doesn’t have too much problem with the idea that the last two Presidential elections have been hijacked – perhaps they think the bad guys have given up and won’t be back in 2008.

I’ve already see dozens of articles outlining the fact that the neo-cons don’t like Congressman Ron Paul, that’s really no surprise, Ron Paul is a conservative; they’re not. I’ve seen some articles that seek to convince you and I that the neo-cons are on the run, and that Paul just might pull it off in 08.

There is nothing more that I’d like to see than Ron Paul become our next President, primarily because he represents our last chance, that is the voters last chance, because if Paul doesn’t become the next President of the United States of America, I don’t see a ‘democratic process’ continuing through 2012.

The reason I like Ron Paul is because I think he is aware of this too. I think Paul recognizes and understands some of the more pernicious policies at work now and their true purposes and I think he is against them. However, I find myself often pondering the question, how exactly can he pull this off, how can he get around the obviously pro-neo-con, anti-conservative media and how can he be sure ‘they’ don’t steal the 2008 elections?

I am absolutely certain of one thing though, I am certain that Ron Paul had better not apologize for anything he may have said or done up to this point in his career, because to do so equals certain death. The Zionist media has perfected this approach, they know exactly what they’re doing; they’ll dredge up some past indiscretion or faux pas and bait the unwary politician/spokesperson into apologizing for it. At that point they go for the throat, just ask Cindy Sheehan, who has been relegated to complete obscurity, or ask Trent Lott, who not only lost his position as Majority Leader, but is now safely condemned to a well deserved fate of anonymity and irrelevance. Ask Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.), remember him? He actually spoke the truth when he said back in March 2003 in respect to the Iraq War, “If it were not for the strong support of the [American] Jewish community for this war with Iraq, we would not be doing this.,”[1] Of course Moran immediately apologized for stating an obvious truth, and ever since, he’s been effectively marginalized, have you heard of him since?

I’m afraid that if Congressman Ron Paul doesn’t come out with a radical new approach and no apologies he’ll experience the same fate as the above. Paul is absolutely going to have to challenge the mainstream media’s credibility – there is no other way, because if he doesn’t, if he plays the game by the media’s rules, he’s screwed. There is no doubt that Paul owns the Internet blogs, mostly because the blogs are the last voice of the people, minus the media’s muzzle. In reality, the blogs represent the views of the majority in the United States; because the Zionists have effectively silenced the majority by way of the MSM, just look at the trash the media puts out today, don’t pay attention to the fact that your government has deceived you into a war, look over here at these ultra-hip metro-sexuals and their neat materialist lifestyles. Forget about the fact that there are 20 million + illegal aliens running wild in the United States and/or that they’ll rob your children of their future, look over here at these independent feminist strippers strutting their stuff while discussing heavy topics like what video game will be a mega hit next year. Please people, wake the hell up.

If Ron Paul wants to win, he’d better come out with the truth, if he does it now, the people of this country and the Internet blogs will support him. If he does nothing, but support the status quo he is sure to lose, why would or should anyone get excited about him? Why would or should anyone turn out to vote for the status quo? Hav3en’t we all had enough of that?

Ron, you need to get radical, and for God’s sake, whatever you do, do not apologize.

Linky (http://pcapostate.blogspot.com/2007/05/how-can-ron-paul-do-it.html)

[whottt]

Ok Afro...I've given you plenty of time to rething and recant some of the statements you made from a position of what was clearly ignorance...



Geez where do I begin. So now your telling me whott that the reson why there are radical muslims is because they lack opportunity?

Yeah idiot...economic hardship is a great recruiting tool...

You think the majority of these douchebags joining the fight are leaving 70 k a year jobs?



How the fuck do you think Hitlet got so many Nazis all of a sudden?


Let's be clear on something...I know for fact you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

You don't have a fucking clue how this mindset is started, the root causes, and that's why you guys need to shut the fuck up.

These motherfuckers were not born terrorists you idiot.
They(as in the majority) are not leaving 100k a year jobs to go blow themselves up in Iraq, you idiot.
The indoctrination that takes place to turn human beings into anti-life beings is done with the knowledge and consent of the mid-east governments...to an extent.

The leaders of these countries are shitty leaders, the lives of their people sucks ass...the one skill these douchebags have as leaders, is staying in power, and managing to deflect a large portion of the unrest of their citizens away from themselves.


You are truly a moron, and any time you want to debate this further feel free...I always enjoy wathcing a dumbass get smarter.





Well I may not 'understand' the world around me or the 'ME" but destabalizing that region even more than it was before doesn't seem to be a bright idea but I guess since your so 'worldly' you already know that.

No...you champion keeping the same system in place that cause this movement in the first place.

Fool.



You say an 'unpopular' war? How about an unecessary war? People would support a war if they could understand why we are fighting it.


Well many people need to study shit for themsevles before commiting themselves to stupidity...

They need to think like a sentient creature and not a fucking amoeba.

They need to disassociate their innate dislike of W, pull their head out of Walt Disney's ass and do studying on the human speices, it's evolution and history, and it's habits.

I have...have you?



Many of the folks in the USA have woken up to realize Iraq was the wrong place to start a fight..I know whott you are willing to spill the blood of 10,000 Amerficans so you and your party could save face.


You stupid fuck a hundred thousand Americans joined up or resigned to continu7e fighting this war last year...

You fucking idiot, how can you claim you support them?

You support those that fight them, you give them encouragement, and you put the bullets in their backs every time you do. Every terrorist that stays to fight just one day longer because they know if they can hold on long enough...

Our stupiud fucking anti-wars will lose this war for us...

Is your responsibility.



You're just afraid...don't call me the coward...I tried to join...did you?


Or did you take the easy way out....





Your not stupid whott you'r a coward. And I would tell that to your face.

Big fucking deal...I'll be more impressed when you go say it to a US soldier that just signed up to fight. '


Take your fucking propaganda, and your shallow knowledge, and shut the fuck up...and go learn something before you starting talking shit from a position of ignorance.


Does a lack of opportunity cause this problem...

What a fucking idiot you are. Of course it does. Of course it always has. Any time there is poverty radical ideologies breed.

Fucking stupid ass.

[whottt]

What's next GGA...

You going to try and say a lack of opportunity isn't the cause behind crime such as theft, murder? Behind gangs?



You know...you sound like a guy that has never been poor. You're a fool.

[clambake]

Then where are all the mexican bombers? You pretend to know so much. Why? Because you've been on cruises that take you to every giftshop in europe. How many of those trinkets were made in China.

Seriously, your mental condition has been certified and documented by your own govt. You went to them and said "I want to defend my country". They said "Umm, not thanks". They shoved you out in favor of drug addicts and 3rd strike felons. Think about it...they don't even want you to push a fucking broom. You opened your mouth and personally raised the terror alert level.

Have you ever thought about treatment? That doesn't include the fantasy tale of some dead surgeon?

[xrayzebra]

You know Clam, I am going to give you a break. You make all
the GI's out to be somekind of freaks, scum of the earth types.

As an ex-GI, even at my age, if I EVER see you don't tell me
who you are, because I will find out how damn brave you are.
You may have a banquet on my ass, but I damn sure will have
a sandwich on yours. And that is a fact.

[clambake]

Thanks for the break ray. I said they are signing up drug addicts and 3rd strike felons. Now, if you want to call them freaks and scums, thats up to you.

[xrayzebra]

Breaking one my rules, you are a number one asshole.
GI's are some of the finest people on earth. But how the
hell would you know. I doubt you even have a job.

[clambake]

What do you mean? You refered to them as freaks and scum, not me. I was simply stating that we're signing up drug addicts and 3rd strike felons. You didn't know that? Gee, I thought you knew everything.

You don't want to meet me, ray. I'm not one of those sex slaves being held captive that you like to have your way with.

When you say job, do you mean something like a 9 to 5 gig where you have to answer to somebody? Man, that would suck. But I did work one day last week. Does that make you approve?

[johnsmith]

What do you mean? You refered to them as freaks and scum, not me. I was simply stating that we're signing up drug addicts and 3rd strike felons. You didn't know that? Gee, I thought you knew everything.

You don't want to meet me, ray. I'm not one of those sex slaves being held captive that you like to have your way with.

When you say job, do you mean something like a 9 to 5 gig where you have to answer to somebody? Man, that would suck. But I did work one day last week. Does that make you approve?


Spitball shot.


By the way, we now see how you view our military, drug addicts and felons.

You're a bitch.

[xrayzebra]

Clam wouldn't make a pimple on a GI's rearend.

Sex slave, OMG, don't you wish.

[clambake]

so, you didn't know either? Recruiters were videotaped giving chemicals to mask drug abuse. 3rd strike felons are signing up to trade for military service instead of prison. You didn't know that either?

[whottt]

Then where are all the mexican bombers?

They don't become bombers...they come to the USA for a better life illegally, or they become drug traffickers, you know, those guys that even the Mexican government can't control...idiot.

Why do you think Mexico doesn't want us to close off the borders? Because then they'll be stuck in Mexico and Mexico will have even more shit that they can't deal with.

And who says it's as bad in Mexico as it is in the Mid-East?

It's worse in the Mid-East.

The only non-shithole in the Mid-East is Israel.


Iran has 40% uneployment you idiot....you don't think that forces a govt to become more hardline and results in a lot of angry people?


How fucking stupid are you?





You pretend to know so much. Why? Because you've been on cruises that take you to every giftshop in europe. How many of those trinkets were made in China.

I could give two fucks what you think...you are the stupidest poster on the forum.


I am not kidding..you're stupid. You want to meet and take tests or something?




Seriously, your mental condition has been certified and documented by your own govt. You went to them and said "I want to defend my country". They said "Umm, not thanks". They shoved you out in favor of drug addicts and 3rd strike felons. Think about it...they don't even want you to push a fucking broom. You opened your mouth and personally raised the terror alert level.


Um..cowardly piece of shit...

They haven't certified and documented anything concerning my condition other than I had a injury which they wanted a medical waiver for at that time. They wanted the waiver so that they couldn't get sued by me if I had a stroke or seizure...they also were going to perform a battery of tests after getting the waiver...

At that time they were much more choosy...that was right after Sept 11th, they had a huge surge of people joining...


I had the head injury in 1984...my neuro sugeon was in his 60's at the time..you do the math..then go kill yourself.

You're a worthless piece of shit by the way. A lib Mav fan...just kill yourself now dude...make the world a less stupid place.






Have you ever thought about treatment? That doesn't include the fantasy tale of some dead surgeon?

Have you ever thought of shuttung the fuck up permanently? It'd be kind of nice...specially since you bring nothing to this forum in the way of insight...or knowledge...you're just a dumbass little troll, who does not know shit.

[clambake]

Ok Whott, would you agree that both sides of the aisle in this forum agree to disagree with the amnesty plan? Don't you think thats kinda interesting, the first bi-partisan thought? What do you have to say to the people in DC? Whats the rush with this bill? How does this secure the border?

[whottt]

Ok Whott, would you agree that both sides of the aisle in this forum agree to disagree with the amnesty plan? Don't you think thats kinda interesting, the first bi-partisan thought? What do you have to say to the people in DC? Whats the rush with this bill? How does this secure the border?



I am split...

On the one...what has kept America growing and evolving is it's immigrants...every wave has earned their place in some way.

So I am not anti-immigrant...

The problem is that these people mass emmigrating, by and large, are not respecting our laws, remain loyal to Mexico...and seem to only be here to earn money...not to become an American.

At the same time...the day I went to join the Army after Sept 11th...just about every guy in my group was Mexican..and to just about a man, they were signing up to join the Marines.


I want the good ones here and the bad ones kept out...

For me...the bad ones are the ones that fly the Mexican flag because they somehow they Texas belongs to them, when in fact, it doesn't, and never did. It was never anything more than a Mexican Colony...and the Mexicans that colonized it, stayed and fought for it's independce from Mexico.


It's a complicated issue...

But what pisses me off is the ones that fly the Mexican Flag and don't want to integrate...and it's not just Mexicans that are doing that either...a lot of Mid-Easterners are like that as well.

I don't want them here...if they aren't here to be an American...we don't owe them shit. I mean if they are loyal to another country..fuck them.

I'm not loyal to Germany.

It's like renting a house...pretty much, renters are going to tear up a house they don't own.



So maybe a have a worker program and tax the shit out of them...

Let the ones that want to be Americans stay...but to do so they have to renounce their Mexican citizenship or something.

I don't want people here that don't give a shit about this country and are just here to make a buck...that's a little too capitalist for me.

[clambake]

Well, the mexicans signing up, do you think that was just motive to secure their future citizenship?

[whottt]

No...they were gung ho. These guys definitely wanted to be Americans...and they wanted to fight for this country...it was right after Sept 11th.

[clambake]

So whats your border plan? Why has DC virtually ignored the possiblilty of radicals crossing, probably with greater ease? These guys are extremly clever, with an agenda. Why are dems and repubs dragging their feet? I know we agree about this. When do they standup for their "they will follow us here" claim?

[whottt]

So whats your border plan? Why has DC virtually ignored the possiblilty of radicals crossing, probably with greater ease? These guys are extremly clever, with an agenda. Why are dems and repubs dragging their feet? I know we agree about this. When do they standup for their "they will follow us here" claim?


Because the hispanic vote is now a huge demographic...and it's a swing demographic. It could go conservative(abortion, family values, religion), it could go liberal(Mexico is a leftist country politically). They don't want to piss all those votes off. They are basically covering their asses until they figure out the view of that demographic. IMO...it's a complicated demographic...becuase they really could go conservative, or lib.

To me it's an issue that requires a unified stance...however, the Iraq War was also an issue that required a unified stance...it got politicized...this will too...this will probably be politicized by the Republicans.

[clambake]

Frankly, I'm sick of both parties. If you're on the side that says Iraq was needed, then you have to be ill with the execution of this war. If you're on the side that says get out, then it means you have no plan at all. Leaving an open border through Mexico is no security at all, and DC is teaming up to do just that. This administration, Congress, and House are worthless.