ESPN Experts RIP the Dirty Spurs

[1SUNSFAN]

All of the ESPN guys are dumping on the Spurs. You fans have no legs left to stand on! Your team SUCKS!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/news/story?id=2872149

The NBA came down hard on Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw for coming off the bench after Robert Horry's flagrant foul against Steve Nash. Was this the right call? Should there be a rule change?

Our experts answer five questions on the situation.

1. What is your opinion of the NBA's ruling?


Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: It's miserable, and entirely against what's best for basketball fans. But it's perfectly in keeping with how that rule has always been interpreted in the past.


Jon Barry, ESPN: They had to do it. The rule is clear-cut. You can't leave the bench during an altercation, which is what Amare did, and it was clear what he was doing. He had to be restrained by his coaches. Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen should not be suspended because there was no altercation on the court at the time. The interesting thing is that if James Jones had turned around and got in Francisco Elson's face or there was any brief incident, Duncan would be out too.

Ric Bucher, ESPN Mag: Heavy-handed and wrong-headed. Horry didn't deserve two games any more than Diaw and Stoudemire deserved one each. I was glad to see both Baron Davis and Jason Richardson play in Game 5, but how is what the San Antonio-Phoenix combatants did more egregious? Rules are meant to be broken when their application fails to execute their purpose. That's why we have judges. This was Exhibit A.

John Hollinger, ESPN.com: A mess. They interpreted it in such a way to cause maximum damage to the Suns, even though the Spurs started it. Yes, it's the letter of the law, but I thought they'd even things out by suspending Duncan and Bowen too. The joke's on them, though -- if San Antonio advances because of this ruling, the TV ratings will be far short of what Phoenix would have pulled in.
Tim Legler, ESPN: Based on the wording of the rule, the league office had no choice but to suspend Diaw and Stoudemire. However, it may be the most unbalanced ruling in history. Horry got what he deserved for an egregiously flagrant and inflammatory foul. So the Spurs lose their eighth man while the Suns lose a first-team All-NBA player and another starter. What a joke.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2. Should the rule about leaving the bench be changed or eliminated?

Abbott: This rule has been a big part of the reason that the public doesn't think the NBA is a brawler's league anymore. If the public can stomach more fights -- like there used to be -- then sure, ditch the rule. But if everyone's going to stop buying tickets and moan about "thugs" whenever punches are thrown, they'll have to have this rule or something like it, because once everyone leaves the bench, things can get really ugly really fast.

Barry: It definitely should be changed, because the way it is now, oftentimes the crime doesn't fit the punishment. Just stepping off the bench should not warrant a suspension, especially in this setting of the playoffs. It is clear the rule should be changed to a suspension if you enter the fray. If you stay away from the altercation you should not be suspended.

Bucher: Doesn't matter. If the league can't do a better job of interpreting the spirit of their rules, they won't get it right no matter how the rules are written. I'm a "fairness" over "correctness" guy. As Stu Jackson made clear, he and Stern are not.
Hollinger: As with most things like this, it's the law of unintended consequences. The rule was put in as a response to a few incidents, most notably a Knicks player charging the court in a suit in Phoenix, but it doesn't cover every contingency and there's no nuance to it.

Here's one idea: Make the suspension be for only a quarter or a half if the player didn't have any meaningful participation in the fracas.

Legler: The wording needs to be changed. There has to be room for a split-second reaction from the players on the bench. As long as a player or coach recognizes his transgression and quickly gets off the court before engaging in any physical contact with an opposing player, a suspension should not be warranted.

The NBA office has a lot of smart guys. They should use some of their best judgment to avoid the most highly anticipated series of the year being impacted by great players not participating.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


3. What is your take on the behavior of the Spurs and the Suns in this series?

Abbott: I'd say this series went from about a 3 on the chippy scale to about a 6. The main thing that makes the passion so intense at this point is a good thing: the love so many people have for the Suns. Now that the Suns are the latest victims of that often harsh rule, the fury is off the charts.


Barry: There is nothing wrong with playing physical. However, the Horry foul was a dirty play, the Bowen knee was a dirty play, and it was clear there was intent to injure. The thing that is interesting is the Suns were obviously quite upset over the knee. But they were not going to change their style to retaliate. I credit them for sticking to their plan and going out and winning Game 4.

Bucher: I love it. Two talented, passionate teams, doing whatever they can to win. We've become wwwaaaayyyyy too sensitive about every little skirmish.

Hollinger: What's been odd is that the Spurs have been the ones involved in all the chippy play -- in the past it's been other people doing it to them. I'm not up in arms over Bowen like all the Suns fans apparently are (judging by my in-box), but Horry's hit was out of line and out of character.

Legler: The series has been played at a highly physical level, at times bordering on dirty. This is the type of game the Spurs play. It's the ultimate battle of contrasting styles.The Spurs want to initiate contact both offensively and defensively while the Suns need freedom of movement to run their overpowering offensive style.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


4. Do you think this series will have a long-term effect on any or all of the following:

(a) league rules and policies in terms of officiating, rules, etc.,

(b) how the league is perceived by fans, and/or

(c) style of play in the NBA?

Abbott: I have received tens of thousands of angry e-mails over the last two years, but today is the first day I can recall that any of them were wondering what the procedure is to replace David Stern -- and there were several. I doubt it means a whole lot over the course of the next month, but I do feel the NBA is on even more notice that fans don't want the league office to be too controlling.

Barry: I don't believe this series will have any long-term effect on anything. The rule may be tinkered with. But this idea that teams are going to change how they play or adapt this style of trying to take out a star player with a lesser player? It isn't going to happen. It would be too obvious a team is doing that and the NBA would take swift action and sniff it out immediately and punish accordingly.

Bucher: The league did a great job of eliminating the conspiracy talk a few years back by providing access to referees and the way they do their job. Now, because of indefensible directives, followed by knee-jerk backtracking, the NBA has made it more clear than ever that it can and will manipulate its games for its own purposes. Micro-management of officials and players, kowtowing to perception rather than reality, is threatening to make the game a joke. Short of the Suns winning it all, this season's champion will be forever saddled by a question mark.

Hollinger: In terms of (a), very little. In terms of (b), it will fuel more conspiracy theories, even though the league has every imaginable incentive possible to favor Phoenix and not the Spurs; but this type of logic doesn't dissuade people. And as far as (c), only if Phoenix wins the series and eventually the title -- if so it will spawn more imitators trying to run and gun their way to the promised land.

Legler: This incident should have an impact on rewording the rule in the manner I described above. There needs to be an allowance for a quick emotional reaction from the bench as long as no contact is made and the player gets back to the bench quickly. The suspensions in this series will hurt the game from a fan standpoint because no fan wants to see a championship affected by a league ruling, particularly one as blatantly unfair as this one.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


5. How do you see the next three games (if necessary) playing out?


Abbott: The greatest thing about this moment is that I honestly have no idea, and even with a gun to my head I would not make that call. No choice but to watch and see. If Phoenix can win tonight, though, NBA fans will explode with joy, and that's never a bad thing.

Barry: It is going to be real tough for Phoenix to win Game 5 without Amare and Diaw. The Suns are not a very deep team so they are really going to be calling on James Jones to fill in and it will be too much for them. Which means the Spurs will close out this series in Game 6 back in San Antonio because I see it being far too difficult for Phoenix to win that game on the road.

Bucher: Suns win in six. Their tendency has been to relax when the odds are in their favor. That won't happen in Game 5 now and Amare and Boris will return refreshed and ready to go for Game 6. One caveat: the make-up of the officiating crews is having a greater influence than ever on how games are being officiated. The wrong crew in SA and the series goes to seven.

Hollinger: I said Spurs in seven before it started, but I must concede that Phoenix has been the better team through the first four games. I think the Phoenix crowd will be huge tonight and the refs will give the Suns the benefit of the doubt because of what's already transpired, so I'll go against the grain and say the Suns win Game 5 even without Stoudemire. But I think the Spurs take the last two and the series.

Legler: The Suns can't beat the Spurs without Stoudemire. They won't get enough points in the paint and will go down in Game 5. However, the basketball gods will allow the Suns to come back and get the last two to win the series. Their Game 4 win in San Antonio has given them the confidence to win a close game versus their true nemesis. So, despite the league's ruling, the Suns will win in 7 and go on to their first NBA title.

[CubanMustGo]

Yesterday's news. Get over it, whiner.

[violentkitten]

oh no. :jack

[Soul_Patch]

i guess the first 500 threads saying the exact same shit aren't enough.

[Budkin]

The Suns lost. The Spurs won. Cry more asshole.

[SpursFanInCO]

...and you'll have plenty of time to read this stuff when your team is sent home for good Friday :)

[Lebowski Brickowski]

uhhh ESPN???? that's the world's biggest hack-shop of sports journalism.

[Obstructed_View]

Add that to the Nash excuse and you've got the virtual western conference finalists 2007.

Are the T-shirts ready yet?

[Leetonidas]

I don't see where they ripped anyone. What an idiot.

[bigfan]

Fuck off troll. Go back to your desert wasteland. A land of no championships.

[leemajors]

who was ripping on the spurs? i read people taking shots at the league, but not much directed completely at the spurs. reading is worthless if you can't understand how the words fit together.

[degenerate_gambler]

close this shite thread

[Trainwreck2100]

yeah, even though they all agreed they had to be suspended

[alamo50]

I just can't stop being amazed by how stupid all these repoters are you have on tv over here.

Yes, an 8th man for the Spurs got suspended and the #2 and #7 guys got suspended for the Suns.

You know why it ain't unfair?
BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE PLAYERS WHO DIDN'T FOLLOW THE RULES DUMBASSES!!!!

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Of course the TV ratings would have been higher.

Phoenix has a top-15 TV market, San Antonio is mid-30s.

[703 Spurz]

You guys can keep posting "experts" opinions all day long. It doesn't change a thing bro

[gino>yourlife]

yes, the dirty spurs organization had everything to do with the decision to suspend amare and diaw. that's it blame the spurs FO and the spurs fans.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

uhhh ESPN???? that's the world's biggest hack-shop of sports journalism.

You got that right.

[violentkitten]

so if the spurs trounce the suns with stoudemire in game 6 will these whiny ass threads continue to appear in here?

before i forget, i dont think anyone is that concerned about what nba legend tim legler has to say...

[SA210]

The Suns had a chance to win it, they lead by as much as 16 points. They lead the entire game mostly by double digits. The Spurs played Spurs basketball and came back to win.

Suns blew it.

Nothing is tainted. That talk means nothing anymore.

Spurs lead 3-2

Go Spurs!

[Obstructed_View]

so if the spurs trounce the suns with stoudemire in game 6 will these whiny ass threads continue to appear in here?

before i forget, i dont think anyone is that concerned about what nba legend tim legler has to say...
The Spurs won two games before this one and they always had a reason the win was somehow not legit. What do you expect?

[Man of Steel]

Asshole--

3 out of five admitted the league had no other choice--as unfair as it may be--they had to be consistent with the way the league has enforced the rule in the past.

Go fuck yourself, Uns Pussies!

[violentkitten]

oh, the angst over the suspension of a supporting star for not having the wherewithal to realize that he shouldn't leave the bench during a fight. nash is the suns. take him off and the spurs win last night by 25. take stoudemire off and the suns can be in it down to the end.

[infinite styles]

"Experts"

[gmanrulz]

MORE LIKE The Experts are for the spurs. The suns have no leg to stand on!! Your team SUCKS!! DEPENDS WHAT U HIGHLIGHT MORON

Our experts answer five questions on the situation.

1. What is your opinion of the NBA's ruling?


Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: It's miserable, and entirely against what's best for basketball fans. But it's perfectly in keeping with how that rule has always been interpreted in the past.


AP Photo/Eric Gay

An ugly incident has grabbed the attention away from what has been a beautiful series.

Jon Barry, ESPN: They had to do it. The rule is clear-cut. You can't leave the bench during an altercation, which is what Amare did, and it was clear what he was doing. He had to be restrained by his coaches. Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen should not be suspended because there was no altercation on the court at the time. The interesting thing is that if James Jones had turned around and got in Francisco Elson's face or there was any brief incident, Duncan would be out too.

Ric Bucher, ESPN Mag: Heavy-handed and wrong-headed. Horry didn't deserve two games any more than Diaw and Stoudemire deserved one each. I was glad to see both Baron Davis and Jason Richardson play in Game 5, but how is what the San Antonio-Phoenix combatants did more egregious? Rules are meant to be broken when their application fails to execute their purpose. That's why we have judges. This was Exhibit A.

John Hollinger, ESPN.com: A mess. They interpreted it in such a way to cause maximum damage to the Suns, even though the Spurs started it. Yes, it's the letter of the law, but I thought they'd even things out by suspending Duncan and Bowen too. The joke's on them, though -- if San Antonio advances because of this ruling, the TV ratings will be far short of what Phoenix would have pulled in.

Tim Legler, ESPN: Based on the wording of the rule, the league office had no choice but to suspend Diaw and Stoudemire. However, it may be the most unbalanced ruling in history. Horry got what he deserved for an egregiously flagrant and inflammatory foul. So the Spurs lose their eighth man while the Suns lose a first-team All-NBA player and another starter. What a joke.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2. Should the rule about leaving the bench be changed or eliminated?

Abbott: This rule has been a big part of the reason that the public doesn't think the NBA is a brawler's league anymore. If the public can stomach more fights -- like there used to be -- then sure, ditch the rule. But if everyone's going to stop buying tickets and moan about "thugs" whenever punches are thrown, they'll have to have this rule or something like it, because once everyone leaves the bench, things can get really ugly really fast.

Barry: It definitely should be changed, because the way it is now, oftentimes the crime doesn't fit the punishment. Just stepping off the bench should not warrant a suspension, especially in this setting of the playoffs. It is clear the rule should be changed to a suspension if you enter the fray. If you stay away from the altercation you should not be suspended.

Bucher: Doesn't matter. If the league can't do a better job of interpreting the spirit of their rules, they won't get it right no matter how the rules are written. I'm a "fairness" over "correctness" guy. As Stu Jackson made clear, he and Stern are not.

Hollinger: As with most things like this, it's the law of unintended consequences. The rule was put in as a response to a few incidents, most notably a Knicks player charging the court in a suit in Phoenix, but it doesn't cover every contingency and there's no nuance to it.

Here's one idea: Make the suspension be for only a quarter or a half if the player didn't have any meaningful participation in the fracas.

Legler: The wording needs to be changed. There has to be room for a split-second reaction from the players on the bench. As long as a player or coach recognizes his transgression and quickly gets off the court before engaging in any physical contact with an opposing player, a suspension should not be warranted.

The NBA office has a lot of smart guys. They should use some of their best judgment to avoid the most highly anticipated series of the year being impacted by great players not participating.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


3. What is your take on the behavior of the Spurs and the Suns in this series?

Abbott: I'd say this series went from about a 3 on the chippy scale to about a 6. The main thing that makes the passion so intense at this point is a good thing: the love so many people have for the Suns. Now that the Suns are the latest victims of that often harsh rule, the fury is off the charts.


AP Photo/Paul Connors

Tim Duncan's been unstoppable in the paint.
Barry: There is nothing wrong with playing physical. However, the Horry foul was a dirty play, the Bowen knee was a dirty play, and it was clear there was intent to injure. The thing that is interesting is the Suns were obviously quite upset over the knee. But they were not going to change their style to retaliate. I credit them for sticking to their plan and going out and winning Game 4.

Bucher: I love it. Two talented, passionate teams, doing whatever they can to win. We've become wwwaaaayyyyy too sensitive about every little skirmish.
Hollinger: What's been odd is that the Spurs have been the ones involved in all the chippy play -- in the past it's been other people doing it to them. I'm not up in arms over Bowen like all the Suns fans apparently are (judging by my in-box), but Horry's hit was out of line and out of character.

Legler: The series has been played at a highly physical level, at times bordering on dirty. This is the type of game the Spurs play. It's the ultimate battle of contrasting styles.The Spurs want to initiate contact both offensively and defensively while the Suns need freedom of movement to run their overpowering offensive style.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[DarrinS]

They didn't rip the Spurs, they were ripping the NBA's decision on suspending Amare/Diaw.

[violentkitten]

it's funny how sun fan thinks the way to strike an internets blow to spurs fans is to point out that the media doesn't like them. sun fan is naive. spurs fans are immune to this and have been for a long time. i guess sun fan has to worry about whether or not their team is viewed favorably in the media when the franchise can't point to a real sign of achievement like a larry o'brien trophy...or 3.

:smokin

oh, we're hated? ok.

[1SUNSFAN]

What? Spurs fans can't read??? Yes, they say the "rules are the rules". Everyone has heard that... they also point out that the Spurs got rewarded for playing dirty. this is unjust. Suns are the better team... on and on. That's why I bolded those parts for you! Since most Spurs fans can't read an article that long without getting a headache!

Series is tarnished like the Spurs "class act" reputation! Face it, SPURS GOT OWNED by all fans of basketball outside of San Antonio.

:lol :lol

[violentkitten]

oh no. spurs got "owned" by a few talking heads. when are the 3 titles taken away?

sun fan is just like a bitch. worried about what others have to say about their favorite team. go pick up your latest copy of cosmo or us weekly.

[DarrinS]

What? Spurs fans can't read??? Yes, they say the "rules are the rules". Everyone has heard that... they also point out that the Spurs got rewarded for playing dirty. this is unjust. Suns are the better team... on and on. That's why I bolded those parts for you! Since most Spurs fans can't read an article that long without getting a headache!

Series is tarnished like the Spurs "class act" reputation! Face it, SPURS GOT OWNED by all fans of basketball outside of San Antonio.

:lol :lol


I feel sorry for Nash. He's on a pussified team with a pussified fan base. You don't see Nash crying about it.

[gmanrulz]

Series is tarnished like the Spurs "class act" reputation! Face it, SPURS GOT OWNED by all fans of basketball outside of San Antonio.

:lol :lol

So since the Spurs owned the suns i guess that means the suns got owned by all the fans outside of san antonio?

[Sec24Row7]

Rofl...

This guy is really weak...

Scoreboard Motherfucker.

[1SUNSFAN]

it's funny how sun fan thinks the way to strike an internets blow to spurs fans is to point out that the media doesn't like them. sun fan is naive. spurs fans are immune to this and have been for a long time. .

Immune or BLIND! Your team, city, coach, "star", and fans are a JOKE! :jack

[Obstructed_View]

Oh no my team's bullshit reputation is tarnished. Oh no, another bullshit reputation from people that don't watch basketball anyway.

It's pathetic how desperate a team and their fanbase are just to win a second round series.

[gmanrulz]

Immune or BLIND! Your team, city, coach, "star", and fans are a JOKE! :jack

and ur the BUTT of our joke

[mardigan]

What? Spurs fans can't read??? Yes, they say the "rules are the rules". Everyone has heard that... they also point out that the Spurs got rewarded for playing dirty. this is unjust. Suns are the better team... on and on. That's why I bolded those parts for you! Since most Spurs fans can't read an article that long without getting a headache!

Series is tarnished like the Spurs "class act" reputation! Face it, SPURS GOT OWNED by all fans of basketball outside of San Antonio.

:lol :lol
Man, you should really get that surgery to have your balls reattached

[Leetonidas]

MORE LIKE The Experts are for the spurs. The suns have no leg to stand on!! Your team SUCKS!! DEPENDS WHAT U HIGHLIGHT MORON

Our experts answer five questions on the situation.

1. What is your opinion of the NBA's ruling?


Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: It's miserable, and entirely against what's best for basketball fans. But it's perfectly in keeping with how that rule has always been interpreted in the past.


AP Photo/Eric Gay

An ugly incident has grabbed the attention away from what has been a beautiful series.

Jon Barry, ESPN: They had to do it. The rule is clear-cut. You can't leave the bench during an altercation, which is what Amare did, and it was clear what he was doing. He had to be restrained by his coaches. Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen should not be suspended because there was no altercation on the court at the time. The interesting thing is that if James Jones had turned around and got in Francisco Elson's face or there was any brief incident, Duncan would be out too.

Ric Bucher, ESPN Mag: Heavy-handed and wrong-headed. Horry didn't deserve two games any more than Diaw and Stoudemire deserved one each. I was glad to see both Baron Davis and Jason Richardson play in Game 5, but how is what the San Antonio-Phoenix combatants did more egregious? Rules are meant to be broken when their application fails to execute their purpose. That's why we have judges. This was Exhibit A.

John Hollinger, ESPN.com: A mess. They interpreted it in such a way to cause maximum damage to the Suns, even though the Spurs started it. Yes, it's the letter of the law, but I thought they'd even things out by suspending Duncan and Bowen too. The joke's on them, though -- if San Antonio advances because of this ruling, the TV ratings will be far short of what Phoenix would have pulled in.

Tim Legler, ESPN: Based on the wording of the rule, the league office had no choice but to suspend Diaw and Stoudemire. However, it may be the most unbalanced ruling in history. Horry got what he deserved for an egregiously flagrant and inflammatory foul. So the Spurs lose their eighth man while the Suns lose a first-team All-NBA player and another starter. What a joke.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2. Should the rule about leaving the bench be changed or eliminated?

Abbott: This rule has been a big part of the reason that the public doesn't think the NBA is a brawler's league anymore. If the public can stomach more fights -- like there used to be -- then sure, ditch the rule. But if everyone's going to stop buying tickets and moan about "thugs" whenever punches are thrown, they'll have to have this rule or something like it, because once everyone leaves the bench, things can get really ugly really fast.

Barry: It definitely should be changed, because the way it is now, oftentimes the crime doesn't fit the punishment. Just stepping off the bench should not warrant a suspension, especially in this setting of the playoffs. It is clear the rule should be changed to a suspension if you enter the fray. If you stay away from the altercation you should not be suspended.

Bucher: Doesn't matter. If the league can't do a better job of interpreting the spirit of their rules, they won't get it right no matter how the rules are written. I'm a "fairness" over "correctness" guy. As Stu Jackson made clear, he and Stern are not.

Hollinger: As with most things like this, it's the law of unintended consequences. The rule was put in as a response to a few incidents, most notably a Knicks player charging the court in a suit in Phoenix, but it doesn't cover every contingency and there's no nuance to it.

Here's one idea: Make the suspension be for only a quarter or a half if the player didn't have any meaningful participation in the fracas.

Legler: The wording needs to be changed. There has to be room for a split-second reaction from the players on the bench. As long as a player or coach recognizes his transgression and quickly gets off the court before engaging in any physical contact with an opposing player, a suspension should not be warranted.

The NBA office has a lot of smart guys. They should use some of their best judgment to avoid the most highly anticipated series of the year being impacted by great players not participating.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


3. What is your take on the behavior of the Spurs and the Suns in this series?

Abbott: I'd say this series went from about a 3 on the chippy scale to about a 6. The main thing that makes the passion so intense at this point is a good thing: the love so many people have for the Suns. Now that the Suns are the latest victims of that often harsh rule, the fury is off the charts.


AP Photo/Paul Connors

Tim Duncan's been unstoppable in the paint.
Barry: There is nothing wrong with playing physical. However, the Horry foul was a dirty play, the Bowen knee was a dirty play, and it was clear there was intent to injure. The thing that is interesting is the Suns were obviously quite upset over the knee. But they were not going to change their style to retaliate. I credit them for sticking to their plan and going out and winning Game 4.

Bucher: I love it. Two talented, passionate teams, doing whatever they can to win. We've become wwwaaaayyyyy too sensitive about every little skirmish.
Hollinger: What's been odd is that the Spurs have been the ones involved in all the chippy play -- in the past it's been other people doing it to them. I'm not up in arms over Bowen like all the Suns fans apparently are (judging by my in-box), but Horry's hit was out of line and out of character.

Legler: The series has been played at a highly physical level, at times bordering on dirty. This is the type of game the Spurs play. It's the ultimate battle of contrasting styles.The Spurs want to initiate contact both offensively and defensively while the Suns need freedom of movement to run their overpowering offensive style.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:lol :tu

Way to go gmanrulz. :toast You just proved that the ESPN "experts" are more Spurs favor by bolding different parts. Sun Fan just got pwned. :lmao

[dimsah]

Series is tarnished like the Spurs "class act" reputation! Face it, SPURS GOT OWNED by all fans of basketball outside of San Antonio.
:lol :lol

So...

[Strike]

so if the spurs trounce the suns with stoudemire in game 6 will these whiny ass threads continue to appear in here?

before i forget, i dont think anyone is that concerned about what nba legend tim legler has to say...

He's an NBA Legend like Jack Haley is an NBA Legend.

[easjer]

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought the games and final score determined the end result. I didn't realize it was ratings.

My bad.

Indeed, the Suns are the better team.

But clearly by that logic, LA should have beat them. What happened there?

[dbreiden83080]

The joke's on them, though -- if San Antonio advances because of this ruling, the TV ratings will be far short of what Phoenix would have pulled in.
[/B].

What is this crap about TV ratings and the Suns, Nash is not Lebron ok. Maybe the ratings would be a little better but the Suns do not have that one media darling on their team that the fans will eat up. A dream final TV ratings wise would have been something like Lakers and Cavs, everything else is going to pull about the same give or take.

[Extra Stout]

Immune or BLIND! Your team, city, coach, "star", and fans are a JOKE! :jack
So, tell me, when is Phoenix having its 2007 ESPN NBA Analyst Sympathy championship parade? Is it before or after the Spurs win in the Finals?

[violentkitten]

Immune or BLIND! Your team, city, coach, "star", and fans are a JOKE! :jack


a "joke" with 3 rings and perhaps later this year, 4.

oh no.

what do you get for being the overrated team with no rings?

[dbreiden83080]

Immune or BLIND! Your team, city, coach, "star", and fans are a JOKE! :jack

Our star is a joke you say. Please tell me how a 3 time finals MVP, 2 time league MVP and the best PF that ever lived is a JOKE pal, i am all EARS!!

[DarrinS]

You know what really cracks me up about this whole "everyone hates the Spurs" crap?

Everyone has always hated the Spurs. They're "boring", they're "soft", ... and now, they're "dirty".

The Mavs and Suns can get sucked off by the media -- we'll just settle for the rings.

[1SUNSFAN]

a "joke" with 3 rings and perhaps later this year, 4.

oh no.

what do you get for being the overrated team with no rings?

Another LAME comeback... "look at me... I've got 3 rings... I'm the waterboy!"

Stupid ASS comeback. Come up with something new. I'm talking about this team, this year! You don't hear Suns fans saying, oh yeah? How many World Series does San Antonio have? That's right, you don't even have a team! We won it in 2001! Wow! D-BACK's rule!

Take your 3 rings and stick them in your ass. :blah

[SAGambler]

LOL....Opinions are like assholes......Everybody has one.

Just because they are a so called expert, doesn't mean their asshole opinion carries any greater weight than anyone elses.

Why didn't they just come out and say the Suns can't seem to nut up with the Spurs when the going gets physical......Well, basically that's what they did say.

[violentkitten]

Another LAME comeback... "look at me... I've got 3 rings... I'm the waterboy!"

Stupid ASS comeback. Come up with something new. I'm talking about this team, this year! You don't hear Suns fans saying, oh yeah? How many World Series does San Antonio have? That's right, you don't even have a team! We won it in 2001! Wow! D-BACK's rule!

Take your 3 rings and stick them in your ass. :blah


sun fan has to point to another sport when championships are discussed. sad.

before i forget, are you the suns' fluffer? if not, why are you here?

[DDS4]

Another LAME comeback... "look at me... I've got 3 rings... I'm the waterboy!"

Stupid ASS comeback. Come up with something new. I'm talking about this team, this year! You don't hear Suns fans saying, oh yeah? How many World Series does San Antonio have? That's right, you don't even have a team! We won it in 2001! Wow! D-BACK's rule!

Take your 3 rings and stick them in your ass. :blah


Don't worry...by Friday night, this whole nightmare for you will be over.

[mardigan]

sun fan has to point to another sport when championships are discussed. sad.

before i forget, are you the suns' fluffer? if not, why are you here?
Served

[dbreiden83080]

Take your 3 rings and stick them in your ass. :blah

And what will you be sticking in your ASS if this series is over on FRI, perhaps some CHEESE to go with that WHINE!!

[sprrs]

Please don't tell me your 200+ posts aren't just more bitching....

[SAGambler]

Another LAME comeback... "look at me... I've got 3 rings... I'm the waterboy!"

Stupid ASS comeback. Come up with something new. I'm talking about this team, this year! You don't hear Suns fans saying, oh yeah? How many World Series does San Antonio have? That's right, you don't even have a team! We won it in 2001! Wow! D-BACK's rule!

Take your 3 rings and stick them in your ass. :blah

Uh, why would the Suns worry about anything in baseball? Not like any of them get a trophy or a ring for it.

[Strike]

Another LAME comeback... "look at me... I've got 3 rings... I'm the waterboy!"

Stupid ASS comeback. Come up with something new. I'm talking about this team, this year! You don't hear Suns fans saying, oh yeah? How many World Series does San Antonio have? That's right, you don't even have a team! We won it in 2001! Wow! D-BACK's rule!

Take your 3 rings and stick them in your ass. :blah

Spoken like a true hater.

Oh and by the way, I was happy to see Arizona win the World Series in '01. Ex-Cubbie Mark Grace got the ring he deserved.

[infinite styles]

I like how espn.com has about 20+ articles, views and opinions from Experts* and fans about this situation and foxsports.com has 2-3. Is it because ESPN will be broadcasting the west finals and nba finals (through ABC) and care about their ratings or because they naturally care about the integrity of the game and want to see it played at its purist form. I'm sorry but I always thought that when situations arise you learn from them and move on. Apparently not everybody believes in that philosophy. Everybody needs to get over it and move on already. There is still plenty of good basketball left to be played and it seems that everybody has forgotten about that. If the Spurs make it to the Finals I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN/ABC boycotted it just because of this incident (I know that won't happen but it would be on their minds.)

[Strike]

I haven't had much respect for ESPN in many many years.

All their analysts condemn this "dirty play" but continue to play clips of it when even the most remote opportunity represents itself.

So far the only valid argument I've heard was from Mike Golic.

[1SUNSFAN]

Uh, why would the Suns worry about anything in baseball? Not like any of them get a trophy or a ring for it.

Why should this year's team be concerned about what the past Spurs teams did? You are all stupid! I brought up the Baseball thing to show how stupid your "we have 3 rings" argument is.

Wow! You guys are DENSE! :p:

From now on I will post in short sentences. I'll try to use small words you can understand... like "go spurs go" :lol

[violentkitten]

I like how espn.com has about 20+ articles, views and opinions from Experts* and fans about this situation and foxsports.com has 2-3. Is it because ESPN will be broadcasting the west finals and nba finals (through ABC) and care about their ratings or because they naturally care about the integrity of the game and want to see it played at its purist form. I'm sorry but I always thought that when situations arise you learn from them and move on. Apparently not everybody believes in that philosophy. Everybody needs to get over it and move on already. There is still plenty of good basketball left to be played and it seems that everybody has forgotten about that. If the Spurs make it to the Finals I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN/ABC boycotted it just because of this incident (I know that won't happen but it would be on their minds.)

controversy sells. it'll be interesting to see how many hop on board of the spurs' wagon should they advance to the finals.

[violentkitten]

Why should this year's team be concerned about what the past Spurs teams did? You are all stupid! I brought up the Baseball thing to show how stupid your "we have 3 rings" argument is.

Wow! You guys are DENSE! :p:

From now on I will post in short sentences. I'll try to use small words you can understand... like "go spurs go" :lol


so the rings go away? man, sun fan is desperate. yes, bringing up baseball highlighted your stupidity perfectly.

[mardigan]

Why should this year's team be concerned about what the past Spurs teams did? You are all stupid! I brought up the Baseball thing to show how stupid your "we have 3 rings" argument is.

Wow! You guys are DENSE! :p:

From now on I will post in short sentences. I'll try to use small words you can understand... like "go spurs go" :lol
You mine as well just have written "I am a dumbass with nothing to say" instead of making me read basically the same thing

[td4mvp21]

I don't really care if the Suns, their fans, or the other biased twits that are called ESPN analysists think the Spurs are dirty or think they did not deserve to win last night. We won, that's all that matters. Suck it, haters. Plus, the series still isn't over.

[NASHville]

*

[violentkitten]

the trolling fans of ringless teams sure want to forget the past and count future championships. mavs or suns...

[Strike]

*

:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

I will now make a post with nothing in it to illustrate what the Suns have.

[1SUNSFAN]

They continue to RIP the CHEATING SPURS on TV... Jim Rome show, Around the Horn, etc... the only people who don't realize the fix is in is the STUPID Spurs FANS!

[ChumpDumper]

bollocks

[infinite styles]

controversy sells. it'll be interesting to see how many hop on board of the spurs' wagon should they advance to the finals.

Yeah it sells and people gobble it up like it was a free steak. I swear I don't think that America thinks for itself anymore.

[violentkitten]

They continue to RIP the CHEATING SPURS on TV... Jim Rome show, Around the Horn, etc... the only people who don't realize the fix is in is the STUPID Spurs FANS!

so it's settled. these playoffs are only played to determine who is most popular.

also, if the "fix is in", why would the league want to fix it so that the 'hated dirty team' from a small market wins? good stuff.

[infinite styles]

They continue to RIP the CHEATING SPURS on TV... Jim Rome show, Around the Horn, etc... the only people who don't realize the fix is in is the STUPID Spurs FANS!

Yeah we all know that they are all top quality personnel who value substance over style. :dramaquee :rolleyes

[sabar]

bollocks




Welp, hard to argue that

[ChumpDumper]

They continue to RIP the CHEATING SPURS on TV... Jim Rome show, Around the Horn, etc... the only people who don't realize the fix is in is the STUPID Spurs FANS!Please describe the "fix" and its dastardly aims in detail.

[td4mvp21]

The Spurs are cheaters? If I'm not mistaken, cheaters break the rules....Stoudmire and Diaw broke the rules....so wouldn't that make them cheaters?

[Strike]

They continue to RIP the CHEATING SPURS on TV... Jim Rome show, Around the Horn, etc... the only people who don't realize the fix is in is the STUPID Spurs FANS!

Jim Rome is the biggest bandwagoner in the media, and Tony Reali (Around The Horn) is a Max Kellerman BITER. Not to mention a world class TOOL.

NEXT!!!

[violentkitten]

i will say this...suns mgmt is doing a good job to deflect the focus of the fanbase of their failure to win a nba championship elsewhere. yeah, the fix is in because the league hates a high scoring fast break team built around a white superstar in a mid-size market.

[1SUNSFAN]

so it's settled. these playoffs are only played to determine who is most popular.

also, if the "fix is in", why would the league want to fix it so that the 'hated dirty team' from a small market wins? good stuff.

I never said the dirty team would win.... Suns will pull it out in Game 6. Duncan will be in foul trouble all night. Suns will shoot the most free throw of any of the game.

Game 7 in Phoenix - Spurs don't even show up... Suns blow them out.

book it.

[MadDog73]

I never said the dirty team would win.... Suns will pull it out in Game 6. Duncan will be in foul trouble all night. Suns will shoot the most free throw of any of the game.

Game 7 in Phoenix - Spurs don't even show up... Suns blow them out.

book it.


Wow, you'd think someone like you would want a "clean" game, and not one decided by the refs...

[violentkitten]

I never said the dirty team would win.... Suns will pull it out in Game 6. Duncan will be in foul trouble all night. Suns will shoot the most free throw of any of the game.

Game 7 in Phoenix - Spurs don't even show up... Suns blow them out.

book it.

eh, you just said the dirty team will win.

[ChumpDumper]

Game 7 in Phoenix - Spurs don't even show up... Suns blow them out.

book it.If there is a game 7, I will bet you all the money you have the Spurs will indeed play the game.

[fyatuk]

Another LAME comeback... "look at me... I've got 3 rings... I'm the waterboy!"

Stupid ASS comeback. Come up with something new. I'm talking about this team, this year! You don't hear Suns fans saying, oh yeah? How many World Series does San Antonio have? That's right, you don't even have a team! We won it in 2001! Wow! D-BACK's rule!

Take your 3 rings and stick them in your ass. :blah

Oh yeah! We have multiple Texas League Championships :lol

Go Missions!

Sorry, had to do it. I'm weak willed.

[Sean Elliot's Kidney]

Seems to me like ex-players who don't have a bias agree that the rule as it stands now was correctly enforced. Its the rule, so you don't break it. The ones who take the side of the Suns are journalists who just follow the more marketable team.

[1SUNSFAN]

If there is a game 7, I will bet you all the money you have the Spurs will indeed play the game.

Bet all of your vBookie cash on the Spurs. I'll bet all mine on the Suns! You only have $500 and I've got more than anyone in these forums.... what does that say about Spurs fans? HOMERS :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Bet all of your vBookie cash on the Spurs. I'll bet all mine on the Suns! You only have $500 and I've got more than anyone in these forums.... what does that say about Spurs fans? HOMERS :lol
Hey, you have 3000 virtual dollars to go with your virtual playoff win. Maybe you can go buy a virtual woman.

[ChumpDumper]

No, real money.

Your bet is that in the event of a game 7, Spurs will forfeit.

Mine is they will not forfeit.

How much do you want to bet?

[phxspurfan]

I agree with all the ESPN guys. I am giving up on the Spurs. Spurs are playing too dirty to ignore the fact that they dont deserve to move on. Theyre lazy, dirty and spoiled. The Suns, on the other hand, are more composed, talented, deserving and poised, simply due to their on-court leader. They deserve to win it all, and the NBA needs another champion.

[Ya Vez]

yeah the spurs are so dirty... the nuggets are still crying about how dirty they spurs are... oh wait.. they aren't crying they know they got beat by a better team...

[smrattler]

No legs left to stand on? You guys are one loss away from not having any reason to stand. If we win tomorrow, we'll be walking to the WCF. See ya!

[lylesh]

I feel sorry for Nash. He's on a pussified team with a pussified fan base. You don't see Nash crying about it.


You're right. Nash is a class act as are some of the Spurs.

[1SUNSFAN]

Hey, you have 3000 virtual dollars to go with your virtual playoff win. Maybe you can go buy a virtual woman.

Good idea.... maybe I'll buy your virtual mom! HOMER! :lol

[1SUNSFAN]

No, real money.

Your bet is that in the event of a game 7, Spurs will forfeit.

Mine is they will not forfeit.

How much do you want to bet?

Are you 12 years old? I'll bet you your bike.

[TampaDude]

Game 5 is history. The Spurs won fair and square. Get over it.

[GrandeDavid]

yawn

[1SUNSFAN]

Game 5 is history. The Spurs won fair and square*. Get over it.

* "Fair and square" - means eliminating players through a cheap shot in order to win. (i.e.: also see Cheap Shot Bob)

[Obstructed_View]

* "Fair and square" - means eliminating players through a cheap shot in order to win. (i.e.: also see Cheap Shot Bob)
The only player Horry took out of the game was himself. Don't know if you noticed but Nash played last night.

[1SUNSFAN]

The only player Horry took out of the game was himself. Don't know if you noticed but Nash played last night.

Yeah, I'm sure Amare and Diaw were going to jump up and run down the court and get suspended even if Horry didn't foul Nash at all.

wait for it...

okay... queue "they knew the rules, it's their fault".... blah blah blah bullshit!

I'm gonna shoot Horry in the face and say, "he knew if I shot him in the face he was going to die, but he didn't move so I guess it's his fault?"

Come up with something else... ANYTHING??? That's right you got nothing!! :dizzy

[BlackFlagg]

Suns are the better team...

wah wah... *yawn*
Yeah, you've proven that. :lol
The backlash against the anti-Spurs sentiment is firing our boys UP! Be prepared to be taken out in G6. You're just a bunch of pathetic whiners who can't win a fucking championship to save your asses and we OWNED you last night. :owned

[Trainwreck2100]

Yeah, I'm sure Amare and Diaw were going to jump up and run down the court and get suspended even if Horry didn't foul Nash at all.

wait for it...

okay... queue "they knew the rules, it's their fault".... blah blah blah bullshit!

I'm gonna shoot Horry in the face and say, "he knew if I shot him in the face he was going to die, but he didn't move so I guess it's his fault?"

Come up with something else... ANYTHING??? That's right you got nothing!! :dizzy

A fish isn't dinner till it falls for the bait

[judaspriestess]

"Tim Legler, ESPN: Based on the wording of the rule, the league office had no choice but to suspend Diaw and Stoudemire. However, it may be the most unbalanced ruling in history. Horry got what he deserved for an egregiously flagrant and inflammatory foul. So the Spurs lose their eighth man while the Suns lose a first-team All-NBA player and another starter. What a joke."

Right this coming from a guy who has his eyebrows plucked. They can't possibly be waxed, they are crooked.

I've never liked this guy!!

why are we being infested with stupid suns of bitches fans?!!!

[anonymous coward]

The Suns lost. The Spurs unfairly won. I'm a asshole.

[clambake]

If there is a game 7, I will bet you all the money you have the Spurs will indeed play the game.

I can vouch for Chump on this. I've seen the script.

[BlackFlagg]

Seems to me like ex-players who don't have a bias agree that the rule as it stands now was correctly enforced. Its the rule, so you don't break it.

Of course. If the situation were reversed, the Suns fans would be defending the ruling. They all need to grow a pair. :lol

[mardigan]

* "Fair and square" - means eliminating players through a cheap shot in order to win. (i.e.: also see Cheap Shot Bob)
:lol Get over it, easy rule to follow, thye couldnt follow it, goodbye. Horry didnt get anyone suspended except himself

[Trainwreck2100]

I can vouch for Chump on this. I've seen the script.


So you know about Tim hitting Dantoni with a chair, then flipping off the crowd?

[Shelly]

I like this dirty reputation we now have, yo.

[TampaDude]

Yeah, I'm sure Amare and Diaw were going to jump up and run down the court and get suspended even if Horry didn't foul Nash at all.

wait for it...

okay... queue "they knew the rules, it's their fault".... blah blah blah bullshit!

I'm gonna shoot Horry in the face and say, "he knew if I shot him in the face he was going to die, but he didn't move so I guess it's his fault?"

Come up with something else... ANYTHING??? That's right you got nothing!! :dizzy

1SUNSFAN, what you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever seen. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[SAtoDallas]

Hey, you have 3000 virtual dollars to go with your virtual playoff win. Maybe you can go buy a virtual woman.

Classic!

[1SUNSFAN]

I can vouch for Chump on this. I've seen the script.

Sweet! Clambake... how does it end? I'm betting with a Suns 20 point victory in game 7. Justice is served! David Stern is somewhat redeemed. And the rest of the nation tunes in to watch the Suns go on to win the Championship! Am I right?

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, I'm sure Amare and Diaw were going to jump up and run down the court and get suspended even if Horry didn't foul Nash at all.

wait for it...

okay... queue "they knew the rules, it's their fault".... blah blah blah bullshit!

I'm gonna shoot Horry in the face and say, "he knew if I shot him in the face he was going to die, but he didn't move so I guess it's his fault?"

Come up with something else... ANYTHING??? That's right you got nothing!! :dizzy
Okay, how about this:

I'm going to call the police and tell them that you just made a threat to murder Robert Horry. They will arrest you because you just made a terroristic threat on a public forum. Do you think the police won't arrest you?

In this case, the fact that you don't know the law doesn't give you the right to threaten to kill someone and put it in writing.

Now let's say that someone rapes your mother because you made a threat to Robert Horry. This is their defense. Will they be arrested? Yes, because one crime does not justify another. Robert Horry broke a rule, and if your team didn't, they'd be staring at a gigantic advantage.

If you don't understand the rules, just admit that you're willing to cheat to win and that you want the league to just give your team wins that they don't deserve.

Actually, I am going to make sure Kori takes down your IP address in case someone decides to report you, because what you did is actually a crime.

[mardigan]

Yeah, I'm sure Amare and Diaw were going to jump up and run down the court and get suspended even if Horry didn't foul Nash at all.

wait for it...

okay... queue "they knew the rules, it's their fault".... blah blah blah bullshit!

I'm gonna shoot Horry in the face and say, "he knew if I shot him in the face he was going to die, but he didn't move so I guess it's his fault?"

Come up with something else... ANYTHING??? That's right you got nothing!! :dizzy
Man, Im at a loss for words......
I really cant believe anyone would ever type such a thing

[1SUNSFAN]

Okay, how about this:

I'm going to call the police and tell them that you just made a threat to murder Robert Horry. They will arrest you because you just made a terroristic threat on a public forum. Do you think the police won't arrest you?

In this case, the fact that you don't know the law doesn't give you the right to threaten to kill someone and put it in writing.

Now let's say that someone rapes your mother because you made a threat to Robert Horry. This is their defense. Will they be arrested? Yes, because one crime does not justify another. Robert Horry broke a rule, and if your team didn't, they'd be staring at a gigantic advantage.

If you don't understand the rules, just admit that you're willing to cheat to win and that you want the league to just give your team wins that they don't deserve.

Actually, I am going to make sure Kori takes down your IP address in case someone decides to report you, because what you did is actually a crime.

Hahhahahhahha! YES! Please CALL THE POLICE! :lol

Let's see how long it takes them to get here.

I see lots of post where people are saying, "put a dagger in the Suns" and shit like that... should I call Homeland Security or Border Control?

You are all a bunch of dumbasses. I'm turning you off...

[mardigan]

Hahhahahhahha! YES! Please CALL THE POLICE! :lol

Let's see how long it takes them to get here.

I see lots of post where people are saying, "put a dagger in the Suns" and shit like that... should I call Homeland Security or Border Control?

You are all a bunch of dumbasses. I'm turning you off...
Go fuck yourself asshole. Saying put a dagger in the Suns is completely different than threatining a players life.

[Obstructed_View]

Hahhahahhahha! YES! Please CALL THE POLICE! :lol

Let's see how long it takes them to get here.

I see lots of post where people are saying, "put a dagger in the Suns" and shit like that... should I call Homeland Security or Border Control?

You are all a bunch of dumbasses. I'm turning you off...
Wow, that was easy. :clap

[cheguevara]

ESPN is a mediocre network at best. I would not go and say the have "experts"

are greg anthony, legler or Screaming Smith experts? :lmao :lmao

[cheguevara]

I would say Stein, Hollinger and others are experts. I did not hear them rip the spurs

[BigBeezie]

The only writer I like is from CBS Sportsline...name: Tony Mejia

Tony Mejia is the most consistent writer/analyst I have ever read. The guy is money and I would usually wager money based on his predictions.

[SpursWoman]

Wow, that was easy. :clap


Man ... if it really works, you are my hero. :makeout :lol

[RonMexico]

Yean, Hollinger was wrong though - Suns didn't get the benefit from the officials.

Spurs shot more FTs overall, but it was only one-sided in the Suns' favor in the 1st quarter.

[smeagol]

1SUNSFAN, what you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever seen. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
That's because you never met LakerGod and Wolves 009 :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

Actually LakerGod is now ks109

[Obstructed_View]

Yean, Hollinger was wrong though - Suns didn't get the benefit from the officials.

Spurs shot more FTs overall, but it was only one-sided in the Suns' favor in the 1st quarter.
I thought the Spurs were slower on both ends in the first and were getting beat to spots. People were bitching about the calls but I didn't think any of them were particularly bad. The Spurs didn't play in the 4th quarter of game 4 and it looked like the calls weren't going their way then, too. It's no coincidence that the Spurs make more mistakes and commit more fouls when they aren't concentrating.

[RonMexico]

I thought the Spurs were slower on both ends in the first and were getting beat to spots. People were bitching about the calls but I didn't think any of them were particularly bad. The Spurs didn't play in the 4th quarter of game 4 and it looked like the calls weren't going their way then, too. It's no coincidence that the Spurs make more mistakes and commit more fouls when they aren't concentrating.

Yeah, and Suns committed dumb fouls in the 4th because of complete fatigue, no matter what Raja says.

Raja's flop on Manu was only called because Manu inexplicably stopped and looked at Ron Garretson, who probably then felt obligated to make a call.

Barbosa needs to stop trying to take it straight at TD like he's MJ or something... has ever heard of a hesitation move, crossover dribble, using the rim as a guard, or trying to draw a foul?

And was anyone else annoyed at Bernie Fryer's constant "I'll call the foul if the guy misses the layup" routine? Happened twice for the Suns, with Marion receiving benefit in the 1st and Thomas getting the call in 3rd or 4th... then Duncan got the call late in the 4th and drained both FTs before missing the 2 on the play that wasn't really "off-the-ball" no matter what Pop thought.

[FromWayDowntown]

And was anyone else annoyed at Bernie Fryer's constant "I'll call the foul if the guy misses the layup" routine? Happened twice for the Suns, with Marion receiving benefit in the 1st and Thomas getting the call in 3rd or 4th... then Duncan got the call late in the 4th and drained both FTs before missing the 2 on the play that wasn't really "off-the-ball" no matter what Pop thought.

I agree with you about Fryer, but I can't understand your contention about the last foul on Duncan. When he was fouled, the ball was clearly out of his hands and on it's way to Finley. If he doesn't have the ball, the Suns are fouling a guy without the ball, wishing to send him to the free throw line instead of the ball-handler. It's Hack a Shaq in a slightly different form. Replays seemed pretty conclusive to me that the ball was well out of Duncan's hand before the foul was committed. I don't think that an official can decide that the fouling player intended to commit the foul sooner, either. It ultimately didn't matter -- and I understand why the call was made as it was -- but I don't see how anyone could argue that the call wasn't an off-the-ball foul.

[RonMexico]

I agree with you about Fryer, but I can't understand your contention about the last foul on Duncan. When he was fouled, the ball was clearly out of his hands and on it's way to Finley. If he doesn't have the ball, the Suns are fouling a guy without the ball, wishing to send him to the free throw line instead of the ball-handler. It's Hack a Shaq in a slightly different form. Replays seemed pretty conclusive to me that the ball was well out of Duncan's hand before the foul was committed. I don't think that an official can decide that the fouling player intended to commit the foul sooner, either. It ultimately didn't matter -- and I understand why the call was made as it was -- but I don't see how anyone could argue that the call wasn't an off-the-ball foul.

that's why I put "off-the-ball" in quotes because technically it was, but in spirit it wasn't - I'll explain:
#1 - you needed pretty slow-mo replays to conclusively state that it had left his hands before Bell touched him (especially since the official was shielded by Duncan's body)
#2 - people elsewhere and on this message board blasted the officials in Game 4 for not calling the touch foul by Finley on Nash that led to this whole Flagrant 2/Suspension mess in the first place, so with the shot clock already off, they were probably ready with a quick whistle
#3 - throughout the years, if a player is inches away from a guy and making a move to foul him, but the guy throws the ball and it is in mid-air, they've given the defender the benefit of the doubt and whistled a foul
#4 - if the ball were in Finley's hands already and then Bell committed the foul, then they probably would have called it off-the-ball (esentially, it's not as cut-and-dry as the Parker/Barbosa foul).
#5 - It was shown on TNT, while Stern wanted the Suns to win, and so putting Duncan on the line with a 3 point Spur lead was just the "drama" the network and the league wanted... just kidding.

[L.I.T]

I was actually impressed with the refs. They weren't as bad as usual (which is saying a lot) and there were at least two instances where they could have called technicals on D'Antoni and didn't; they allowed him to make an ass of himself then firmly took him away from the action. They managed the game and the emotions on the Suns bench and the crowd fairly well.

Of course I still woulda loved to see them toss his ass out, but whatever.

[jmard5]

The same experts who predicted a Mavs win over the Warriors? :lol Enough said.

[infinite styles]

If the Spurs win the Championship this year and the media starts on about an * next year I will simply insert my brand new 2007 Championship DVD and let the good times roll.

[Obstructed_View]

And was anyone else annoyed at Bernie Fryer's constant "I'll call the foul if the guy misses the layup" routine? Happened twice for the Suns, with Marion receiving benefit in the 1st and Thomas getting the call in 3rd or 4th... then Duncan got the call late in the 4th and drained both FTs before missing the 2 on the play that wasn't really "off-the-ball" no matter what Pop thought.
I don't mind the late whistle. I don't have a problem with an official deciding that a foul is worth a no-call if the shot goes in and worth a call if it doesn't. It saves the defensive player from an unnecessary foul if the basket goes in and the offensive player doesn't really deserve a three point play.

[Obstructed_View]

#2 - people elsewhere and on this message board blasted the officials in Game 4 for not calling the touch foul by Finley on Nash that led to this whole Flagrant 2/Suspension mess in the first place, so with the shot clock already off, they were probably ready with a quick whistle

By the way, I've seen another angle of the play since then. Finley completely whiffed on Nash. The Suns and their fans would have been screaming that the fix was in if they'd called that.

[RonMexico]

By the way, I've seen another angle of the play since then. Finley completely whiffed on Nash. The Suns and their fans would have been screaming that the fix was in if they'd called that.

Well, I don't know how many of us would have been THAT upset to see Steve going to the FT with under 24 seconds left in the game and a 3 pt lead.

[RonMexico]

I don't mind the late whistle. I don't have a problem with an official deciding that a foul is worth a no-call if the shot goes in and worth a call if it doesn't. It saves the defensive player from an unnecessary foul if the basket goes in and the offensive player doesn't really deserve a three point play.

Yeah, but they were some weak fouls, nonetheless... for both teams - I see your point and I've employed the same tactic in reffing high school games, but I'm getting paid peanuts compared to what NBA veteran refs are getting paid A LOT. On top of that, high school kids can be stupid sometimes, so you don't want to foul out the whole team... as long as the parents stay off my ass, I usually have a more patient whistle.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, but they were some weak fouls, nonetheless... for both teams - I see your point and I've employed the same tactic in reffing high school games, but I'm getting paid peanuts compared to what NBA veteran refs are getting paid A LOT. On top of that, high school kids can be stupid sometimes, so you don't want to foul out the whole team... as long as the parents stay off my ass, I usually have a more patient whistle.
It's just that sometimes a guy deserves two points for a shot but not three, so sitting a little longer on the whistle is okay in my opinion. It's funny that the defensive players get angry at the late whistles since it means that they almost got away with it.

[RonMexico]

It's just that sometimes a guy deserves two points for a shot but not three, so sitting a little longer on the whistle is okay in my opinion. It's funny that the defensive players get angry at the late whistles since it means that they almost got away with it.

Oh, no doubt about it, but there's a sense of cheapness about it. Like when Duncan got the call late in the game, I was already ecstatic that it was coming off the rim. And when the Suns got the calls, I felt a little guilty that they were getting "bailed out" like that.

However, the defender definitely gets upset because it's like on Christmas morning when you think you're getting a Sega Genesis only to find out it's Encyclopedia Britannica... you're all excited and then the whistle blows and you start pouting on camera...

[5ToolMan]

The ESPN Hack says the championship will be forever tainted if the Suns don't advance from this round. This thought, at least at this point in the series, can only come from someone void rational thought or full of alterior motive.

As NBA Fans we need to insist on a clear statement of fact about this series. If you toss out game 5 all together the Spurs and Suns would be tied 2 - 2. And while I give the Suns credit for the game 4 victory, any who watched the game knows the Spurs had controll of that entire game and should have been up 3 - 1 after 4 games. After a series of phantom calls and no calls and a few bone headed plays by the Spurs kept the game close, the Suns in "NBA Speak" were able to "steal" their play for the entire game demonstrated they did not deserve.

If the Horry short Spurs manage to beat the Suns in game 6, the Spurs would have beaten the full strenth Suns 3 - 2 and had been a sliver from a 4 - 1 series spanking in games where the Suns were at full strength and the Spurs were missing clutch Horry in the game 6 closeout game.

[ambchang]

I didn't get how, say Detroit, winning the championship would be labeled with a ?, and how the league staying consistent over the leave the bunch rule is manipulating the rules to fit its own agenda.
Wouldn't NOT suspending Stoudemire or Diaw be manipulating the rules to benefit superstars? But then again, emotion always trumps logic.

[TheSanityAnnex]

And while I give the Suns credit for the game 4 victory, any who watched the game knows the Spurs had controll of that entire game and should have been up 3 - 1 after 4 games. And anyone who watched game five knew the Suns had control the entire game, so what is your point?