Randy Galloway: Has letter of the law opened door to thugs?

[ducks]

Randy Galloway: Has letter of the law opened door to thugs?
NBA refuses to factor sanity into its rule on leaving bench
By RANDY GALLOWAY
Star-Telegram staff writer


Has letter of the law opened door to thugs?

The cruel reality of a long summer just got easier for Avery, Donnie and anyone else in Mavsville who is part of the reconstruction process for a suddenly broken basketball team.

Take a read off the San Antonio Spurs, forever a "model" NBA franchise, plus an organization the Mavs were already attempting to copycat in all areas, hopefully even the rings at some point.

But Coach Pop and his San Antonio people are now laying out a new blueprint:

Continue the longstanding tradition as the league's biggest whiners, while adding a new twist of thugging it up.

Whatever works, right?

Whine and cheap-shot whacks are the way to go.

The NBA rewards you for that. The Spurs are currently giving us the proof.

(Side note: The whining part only applies to coaches and players. Owners need not apply. Does anyone even know what the Spurs' owner looks like, much less sounds like? The NBA does NOT reward whiny owners.)

I spent Wednesday night watching the playoffs. Actually, I was waiting to see the Game 5 high drama from Arizona, which had the usual late-night start, preventing anyone with a real job from seeing it.

But I also got trapped into viewing the earlier Eastern Conference contest between the Cavs and Nets, which was maybe the worst display of basketball in the history of the NBA playoffs.

The almighty LeBron James? He was LeDirk James in this game, although at least Dirk doesn't fake injuries to take a late fourth-quarter hike.

Anyway, the main event from Phoenix finally tipped off, and the Spurs were so bad in the first half I'm thinking this is a team playing ashamed. (Sir Charles on TNT said the Spurs were on a guilt trip.) But ashamed to have benefited from what some veteran NBA observers are calling the biggest injustice in league history. And if not that, then at least the injustice that has caused the most national heat ever for commissioner David Stern.

Listening to a radio-gold interview of Stern by Dan Patrick on local ESPN that afternoon, it was by far the most defensive I've heard the commissioner. But being nuclear-defensive is what happens when you know your position is wrong.

Stern had to be praying the Suns could defy the odds and win that Wednesday game. Instead, the Spurs rescued a "W" in the final minute, and then Coach Pop reportedly awarded Stern the game ball for his contributions.

Whining and thugging it up paid off big time for the Spurs, now up three games to two in an edgy series, and back home for the possible closeout in Game 6 tonight.

All the details of why the Suns lost Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw to one-game league suspensions have been properly chronicled.

But please spare me the e-mails saying what part of the rule do I not understand.

Leaving the "vicinity of the bench" in a potential altercation situation is an automatic suspension, no matter the circumstances. I know that.

Mark Cuban himself defended that rule and wants it to remain unchanged, or so he wrote in a Wednesday blog.

Yes, the rule should stand, except there should also be a common sense application.

There is not ONE on-the-floor interpretation of NBA rules that is not subjective, except this one. All other rules are based on judgment calls by the refs, or the league office, including flagrant fouls.

Why was Jerry Stackhouse suspended for a Game 4 hit on Shaq last June in The Finals? Because he wasn't going for the ball, and his arm swung in the vicinity of Shaq's head.

Why was Golden State's Jason Richardson not suspended for the exact same hit on a Utah player? Because Stern's high sheriff of discipline, Stu Jackson, was not consistent with his ruling, and probably because Shaq doesn't play for Utah.

For Amare and Boris, the "vicinity of the bench" suspension rule was a letter of the law, no exceptions verdict from Stern and Jackson.

By now, everyone knows the particulars of the scene that caused all this. But why wasn't common sense applied? Look at the film of the incident. It tells you everything.

Where did Amare and Boris go when they left the bench? Did they charge the floor? No, not even close. Once both players were grabbed on the sideline by Suns coaches, did they attempt to break away? No.

Did either cause any kind of disturbance? No.

Look at the film, it tells you what the "intent" was. Like everything else, suspensions for "vicinity of the bench" violations should be judged on a case-by-case basis, and also on the circumstances involved.

Cuban disagreed in his blog, saying the subjective nature of NBA rules is what causes most problems, therefore it is better to keep this one hard core.

No, Mark. Not when the Spurs benefited from thugging it up. Common sense, my man.

But if Cuban is right, then that confirms what the Mavs' basketball people must do as they now pick up the pieces from a shattered season.

Copycat the Spurs. Find a Bruce Bowen. Go dirty, dirty, dirty. And whine like hell over everything.

And then even Mr. Cuban may suddenly discover he has a friend and ally in David Stern.

Randy Galloway's Galloway & Co. can be heard weekdays 3-6 p.m. on ESPN/103.3 FM.

Finding trouble

Whether through thuggish behavior or questionable judgment, here are the players remaining in the NBA playoffs who could be the center of the next postseason controversy:

Bruce Bowen (Spurs) His physical defense -- and inspired kicking game -- rankles opponents, and he spends a lot of time guarding Steve Nash.

Raja Bell (Suns) Another fearless, physical defender, he's always involved when something happens, just like in Monday's incident.

Rasheed Wallace (Pistons) He's emotional, volatile and racks up technical fouls like they were missed 3-point attempts. He leads all remaining players with three playoff technicals.

Drew Gooden (Cavs) Nothing malicious about this power forward, but it's his lack of focus and judgment that could spark something.

Mikki Moore (Nets) Enforcer picked up a flagrant foul Monday after hammering the Cavs' Aleksandar Pavlovic.

[Sec24Row7]

They need to get someone that can guard Baron Davis.

[FromWayDowntown]

Galloway must just avoid the post-game press stuff. That, or he's got to be the worst sort of myopian to claim that the whining in this series is emanating from the Spurs. Pop works officials, Duncan disagrees with calls too frequently, and Manu has the bug-eyed "who me" look down. But nothing that the Spurs do can even come close to rivaling Mr. D'Antoni's sideline antics. And there's no doubt that D'Antoni has been winning the press conferences from a whining, bitching, moaning, and complaning standpoint.

Call the Spurs dirty if you like, Galloway. But you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction on the whining in this series.

[Mr. Body]

No greater whiner than Mark Cuban. Except for this guy.

[dimsah]

I love it! :lol

especially this part:


Whine and cheap-shot whacks are the way to go.

The NBA rewards you for that. The Spurs are currently giving us the proof.

(Side note: The whining part only applies to coaches and players. Owners need not apply. Does anyone even know what the Spurs' owner looks like, much less sounds like? The NBA does NOT reward whiny owners.)
No, No! Owners don't count when it comes to whining.

[easjer]

Whining on the court is one thing. Doesn't bother me much when our players do it, as they seem to do it in a respectful manner. It bothers me when people pitch fits, throw temper tantrums and are still arguing calls plays later. Get over it. Spurs don't do that. Anyone claiming the Spurs whine more than the Suns was clearly listening to the game on the radio.

And that whining that our team does (and everyone else does too, so fuck him)? Stays on the court. Our players and coach have a lot more class than to whine to the press, unlike many other teams in the league.

No credibility whatsoever for this fucker.

[Spurminator]

Galloway must just avoid the post-game press stuff. That, or he's got to be the worst sort of myopian to claim that the whining in this series is emanating from the Spurs.

lol, trust me, Galloway doesn't watch the games a lot, and especially considering the late hours of this series (I'm guessing dude's in bed by 9:00 every night), most likely he's just going by what he hears from ESPN (for whom he has a local show in Dallas) and what he knows from past Spurs/Mavs games.

[DarrinS]

Galloway must just avoid the post-game press stuff. That, or he's got to be the worst sort of myopian to claim that the whining in this series is emanating from the Spurs. Pop works officials, Duncan disagrees with calls too frequently, and Manu has the bug-eyed "who me" look down. But nothing that the Spurs do can even come close to rivaling Mr. D'Antoni's sideline antics. And there's no doubt that D'Antoni has been winning the press conferences from a whining, bitching, moaning, and complaning standpoint.

Call the Spurs dirty if you like, Galloway. But you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction on the whining in this series.


That article sounded pretty damn whiny to me.

Did any of these people watch basketball during the 80's or 90's?

Does anyone remember Juwan Howard taking out Derek Anderson with a flagrant foul? THAT foul actually caused a severe injury, but I STILL don't think Howard was trying to hurt him.

[ambchang]

I agree the Mavs should pick up dirty players rather than tough, hard-nosed defenders like Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse.

[Man In Black]

80% of the bench players knew to keep their asses on the bench. There is no need for interpretation of common sense. Common sense and knowing the rules kept all those Veterans on the Phoenix bench and every Spur reserve home as well.

Oh and Randy Newsflash...you a have a Bruce Bowen, his name is Josh Howard and offensively, he is better than Bruce.

[Sec24Row7]

That article sounded pretty damn whiny to me.

Did any of these people watch basketball during the 80's or 90's?

Does anyone remember Juwan Howard taking out Derek Anderson with a flagrant foul? THAT foul actually caused a severe injury, but I STILL don't think Howard was trying to hurt him.

Howard now has a lengthy history of flagrant fouls...

[shelshor]

So Randy "10 Drink Minimum" Galloway hasn't dried out yet?

[maxpower]

I may be myopic about the Spurs but ...like the soft label...the whining label is thoroughly unwarranted to the extent it is given.

I know i'm preaching to the choir..but I can't believe more people are not aware of the lack whining or criticism the Spurs display off the court.

And is there any more laughable place this article can come from. The mavs are more deserved of any soft or whining or dirty label than the Spurs.

It just makes their first round nuclear implosion that much sweeter...it is like the cherry on top of their monumental finals collapse.

[Spurminator]

The whining on the court label the Spurs had was valid for a time, but it's becoming outdated. There was a time when Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and Bowen would get incredibly bug-eyed any time a call went against them, and a lot of times replays showed those calls to be valid. This rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way.

From what I've seen, they've improved recently in this respect. But like I said, Galloway is not exactly an NBA League Pass subscriber.

[greywheel]

And is there any more laughable place this article can come from. The mavs are more deserved of any soft or whining or dirty label than the Spurs.

Not much left to talk about with the Mavs. The leak about Dirk's MVP award meant that most of that discussion had taken place before he received it.

[Sec24Row7]

The whining on the court label the Spurs had was valid for a time, but it's becoming outdated. There was a time when Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and Bowen would get incredibly bug-eyed any time a call went against them, and a lot of times replays showed those calls to be valid. This rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way.

From what I've seen, they've improved recently in this respect. But like I said, Galloway is not exactly an NBA League Pass subscriber.

We got the soft label in like 1993... We changed owners, coaches, two arenas, every player on the team, the uniform and won three championships and we still get called soft...

How long do you think they will call us whiners beyond the point of it actually being true?

[beirmeistr]

What's he talking abput?
Both Stackhouse and Terry have Doctorates in Thugology.

[Spurminator]

We got the soft label in like 1993... We changed owners, coaches, two arenas, every player on the team, the uniform and won three championships and we still get called soft...

How long do you think they will call us whiners beyond the point of it actually being true?


Meh, I don't really care. The thing that bothers me when the Spurs complain about calls during the game is that it hurts their focus and they start playing like victims.

In the 4th quarter of Game 5, the Spurs played with a "fuck it, we know we're getting jobbed but we're going to win this one anyway" approach and they won. If they approach every game with that attitude I think the additional trophies will comfort them in the face of any whiny reputation they still have.

[ChumpDumper]

Stay near the bench.

[Obstructed_View]

The Nuggets and Mavs love this false perception that somehow the Spurs whine or hard foul more than they do. It would explain why they are so quick to pile on. It's also hardly shocking that they want the NBA to bypass the rule just to screw the Spurs.

It'll make tonight's win all that much more satisfying.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

When I saw the title I thought it was going to be a discussion on the Elson/Jones situation, and how under the current rules if Jones had been thinking quick enough he could have slugged Elson and gotten Tim and Bruce suspended. For my money that's the thing that's convinced me the rule might need some revision. Turns out it's yet another ignorant writer who watchs ESPN instead of actually watching the events he writes about.

P.S.-When did Chump jump on the Hawks bandwagon?

[ChumpDumper]

When I saw the title I thought it was going to be a discussion on the Elson/Jones situation, and how under the current rules if Jones had been thinking quick enough he could have slugged Elson and gotten Tim and Bruce suspended.They should've stayed near the bench.

[ambchang]

The Nuggets and Mavs love this false perception that somehow the Spurs whine or hard foul more than they do. It would explain why they are so quick to pile on. It's also hardly shocking that they want the NBA to bypass the rule just to screw the Spurs.

It'll make tonight's win all that much more satisfying.
I actually believe this is why the Nuggets and Mavs never won anything, it's because this attitude they have that blames on things they cannot control rather than look internally for improvement opportunities.
As a result, the same mistakes gets committed over and over again, and the team fail in the same manner over and over again.

[Sec24Row7]

When I saw the title I thought it was going to be a discussion on the Elson/Jones situation, and how under the current rules if Jones had been thinking quick enough he could have slugged Elson and gotten Tim and Bruce suspended. For my money that's the thing that's convinced me the rule might need some revision. Turns out it's yet another ignorant writer who watchs ESPN instead of actually watching the events he writes about.

P.S.-When did Chump jump on the Hawks bandwagon?


Is it really a bandwagon if it is up on blocks?

[RonMexico]

Galloway must just avoid the post-game press stuff. That, or he's got to be the worst sort of myopian to claim that the whining in this series is emanating from the Spurs. Pop works officials, Duncan disagrees with calls too frequently, and Manu has the bug-eyed "who me" look down. But nothing that the Spurs do can even come close to rivaling Mr. D'Antoni's sideline antics. And there's no doubt that D'Antoni has been winning the press conferences from a whining, bitching, moaning, and complaning standpoint.

Call the Spurs dirty if you like, Galloway. But you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction on the whining in this series.

Spurs have whined a LOT for years. Calling Suns whiners is ridiculous when you look at what Bowen even does (aka - the hands off to his side, and yelping when he gets screened)

[ChumpDumper]

Everybody whines.

Quit whining about whining.

[Amare_32]

To be fair every team has players that whine about foul calls. Is not just the Spurs but a league wide problem. Some players react like they never commit fouls.

[FromWayDowntown]

Spurs have whined a LOT for years. Calling Suns whiners is ridiculous when you look at what Bowen even does.

And the Suns don't argue for calls and complain to officials and express disbelief about calls?

For crissakes, the biggest crybaby in the building on any given night is D'Antoni!! I'm willing to bet that his epic display in Game 1 will be unrivaled during these playoffs.

Look, I don't like the Spurs' emotional outbursts at officials, but it's not as if they are alone in that effort. And at least it never comes out in anything the Spurs say after games. I'm not sure that the same can be said for Coach D'Antoni.

[Obstructed_View]

The only thing funnier than a Suns fan saying the Spurs are whiners is Randy Galloway saying the Spurs are thugs. Surely neither actually believes it.

Ronmex, the Suns were whining about the Spurs from the opening tip, players, coaches, and fans. They've now gotten the entire world wrapped up in it. This is pussification on a historical scale, and you know it.

[clambake]

The whining should be about the difficulty in pretending that this is a legitimate series. The real hose job took place off the court.

[ChumpDumper]

Please explain why players shouldn't be subject to the written rules, mavfan.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

The whining should be about the difficulty in pretending that this is a legitimate series. The real hose job took place off the court.
Agreed. The Horry suspension was way out of line. It's good to see Texas fans coming together on this.

[clambake]

I'm only echoing the sentiments of 95% of NBA fans across the country. Written rules are broken all the time, and with intelligence they're altered to reflect what is fair and just.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm only echoing the sentiments of 95% of NBA fans across the country. Written rules are broken all the time, and with intelligence they're altered to reflect what is fair and just.So players shouldn't be subjected to written rules when fans feel like it.

Nice logic.

BTW - this rule had already been altered once to reflect what's fair and just, but they still enforced it in the meantime.

[Cry Havoc]

Agreed. The Horry suspension was way out of line. It's good to see Texas fans coming together on this.

:lmao
Obvious but hilarious.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm only echoing the sentiments of 95% of NBA fans across the country. Written rules are broken all the time, and with intelligence they're altered to reflect what is fair and just.
Name one time that this rule has been broken. Explain what is fair about letting one team break the rules.

I applaud you for admitting that you are just "echoing", though we already knew you were just repeating what you heard someone else say without thinking about it.

[clambake]

I was refering to rules in general.

Change "someone" to "everyone". More appropriate.

[ChumpDumper]

So players shouldn't be subjected to written rules when fans feel like it.

[Sec24Row7]

I think what is really being missed in all this is the fact that Diaw, a Frenchman, ran TOWARDS a fight. I'm suprised that everyone on the court didn't just stop what they were doing a stare at him in shock.

[BeerIsGood!]

I've lived in Dallas for a while now, and nobody but the idiotic take Randy Galloway seriously anymore. It doesn't matter what sport he's talking about, he basically comes up with wild ass statements to rile up readers and listeners. His shtick is that of the country boy with the western drawl who calls it as he sees it... the only problem is that he rarely ever sees anything. He's a dinosaur and he's in the business of stirring people's emotions no matter what he has to say. This and any other article written by Galloway isn't worthy of being posted and discussed here or anywhere.

[clambake]

I know how you guys feel. Don't loosen your grip on that rule book.

[ChumpDumper]

I know how you guys feel. Don't loosen your grip on that rule book.I'm all for changing the rules at the appropriate time, though I have yet to hear any workable amendment to the bench rule. You are for selective enforcement of written rules that have existed for a decade determined by perceived fan opinion on the internets.

[Obstructed_View]

I was refering to rules in general.

Change "someone" to "everyone". More appropriate.
Right. You don't agree with the rules when your team doesn't win. You are a Mavericks fan, right?

Sorry: You repeat things you hear "everyone" say without thinking. Didn't mean to besmirch your reputation. :lol

[Cry Havoc]

I'm only echoing the sentiments of 95% of NBA fans across the country. Written rules are broken all the time, and with intelligence they're altered to reflect what is fair and just.

Stop whining already. Game 5 is over. It's done. It's in the past. Good lord.

[clambake]

Too late to alter this PR disaster. When I said "I feel for you guys", I meant it.

[FromWayDowntown]

I've said it in other threads, but I find it remarkable that fans who think that David Stern has too much power are now willing to give him complete discretion to decide when or if a MANDATORY penalty will be enforced.

I laugh at the comparisons that are made for the purpose of demonstrating inequity here. But, but Baron Davis wasn't suspended. True -- but the violation that Davis committed didn't compel a suspension; it allowed for one, but it didn't make it mandatory. Same is true of Jason Richardson's foul in Game 4 of the GST/UTH series. Even Horry's foul on Nash didn't require a suspension. The difference, of course, is that the rule that Stoudemire and Diaw broke -- and very clearly broke -- is one that doesn't allow for any discretion in sentencing. Break that rule and you get one game. There's a reason (as even Mark Cuban has noted) that teams are keenly aware of the rule and preach the importance of maintaining poise when altercations arise. It's really a pretty simple idea -- don't break the rule and you won't get suspended.

If there's an inequity, it's in the way the rule is written. Under no circumstances is the inequity based on the way that the rule is applied.

[Obstructed_View]

Written rules are broken all the time.
Yeah, the Suns should have been really thankful that the NBA violated the Magic Johnson rule to allow Steve Nash to score 5 points with blood pouring down his face. Give them an inch...

[ChumpDumper]

Too late to alter this PR disaster.Your solution was ignoring the rules based on fan opinion of a rule of which they had been completely ignorant for a decade.
When I said "I feel for you guys", I meant it.Nah, you're just bitter about the Mavs being out of the playoffs and not being able to blame the refs for it. So you find some other series to project your feelings onto.

[Obstructed_View]

I've said it in other threads, but I find it remarkable that fans who think that David Stern has too much power are now willing to give him complete discretion to decide when or if a MANDATORY penalty will be enforced.

I laugh at the comparisons that are made for the purpose of demonstrating inequity here. But, but Baron Davis wasn't suspended. True -- but the violation that Davis committed didn't compel a suspension; it allowed for one, but it didn't make it mandatory. Same is true of Jason Richardson's foul in Game 4 of the GST/UTH series. Even Horry's foul on Nash didn't require a suspension. The difference, of course, is that the rule that Stoudemire and Diaw broke -- and very clearly broke -- is one that doesn't allow for any discretion in sentencing. Break that rule and you get one game. There's a reason (as even Mark Cuban has noted) that teams are keenly aware of the rule and preach the importance of maintaining poise when altercations arise. It's really a pretty simple idea -- don't break the rule and you won't get suspended.

If there's an inequity, it's in the way the rule is written. Under no circumstances is the inequity based on the way that the rule is applied.

If there's an inequity, it's the fact that Horry was unfairly suspended two games just to make the Diaw and Stoudemire suspensions easier to swallow. Horry was punished because of the reaction to his foul, not because of the foul itself. Yet somehow the "whiny" Spurs haven't begun a Suns/Mavericks style media campaign to give themselves excuses for losing.

[Obstructed_View]

Nah, you're just bitter about the Mavs being out of the playoffs and not being able to blame the refs for it. So you find some other series to project your feelings onto.
The funniest part is trying to act impartial and objective about it.

[ChumpDumper]

The funniest part is trying to act impartial and objective about it."ImpartialObserver said so!"

[TLWisfoine]

Yeah, the Suns should have been really thankful that the NBA violated the Magic Johnson rule to allow Steve Nash to score 5 points with blood pouring down his face. Give them an inch...

Yet nobody seems to talk about this, or when Nash obviously put his leg out to kick Kobe in order to make a layup uncontested in the first round or when he is always pulling on guys shorts one way and goes the other to gain an advantage. I have never seen people get so worked up over something my goodness, they act like the league just spontaneously made up this rule. Sit your behind on the bench it is not that hard to grasp.

[baseline bum]

If the NBA awarded championships for whining and cheap shots, Dallas would have swept to the title last year.

[Islymore]

i dont get the confusion by anyone... Amare and Diaw both ran towards the fight... or at least, I saw that much... if im not mistaken, wasnt Diaw right in the midst of the headline pic on ESPN.com?? so... what else did you need to prove he was involved? Amare...? was being blatantly held back by 3 fuckin coaches and he was not headed towards the fight?? be serious.

whining is something every team does. it tans my hide when so many other teamfans bitch about one teamfans' whining and then it's okay when their team whines... ie, sunsfan, mavsfan, spursfan... either way - all teams whine... so fuckin' what?

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Galloway is a complete idiot. I'm the biggest opponent of the rule that you could find and even I know that it isn't promoting thuggery or encouraging cheapshots.

[Obstructed_View]

i dont get the confusion by anyone... Amare and Diaw both ran towards the fight... or at least, I saw that much... if im not mistaken, wasnt Diaw right in the midst of the headline pic on ESPN.com?? so... what else did you need to prove he was involved? Amare...? was being blatantly held back by 3 fuckin coaches and he was not headed towards the fight?? be serious.

whining is something every team does. it tans my hide when so many other teamfans bitch about one teamfans' whining and then it's okay when their team whines... ie, sunsfan, mavsfan, spursfan... either way - all teams whine... so fuckin' what?
It's what losers do. What they'll do next is try to act like it's all just CIA and spirit of competition shit when the series is over and talk about how much respect they have blah blah blah. See if those same posters don't do exactly that. The only ones that haven't are the Maverick fans, because they really just have no class.

[Shank]

If the NBA awarded championships for whining and cheap shots, Dallas would have swept to the title last year.

Hell yes! Where's our banner? Do it!

[TLWisfoine]

It's what losers do. What they'll do next is try to act like it's all just CIA and spirit of competition shit when the series is over and talk about how much respect they have blah blah blah. See if those same posters don't do exactly that. The only ones that haven't are the Maverick fans, because they really just have no class.

Hell, I'll be the first to admit that Dirk does whine a little too much and it annoys the hell out of me, Josh Howard to.

[Obstructed_View]

Galloway is a complete idiot. I'm the biggest opponent of the rule that you could find and even I know that it isn't promoting thuggery or encouraging cheapshots.
Well since Jason Terry's punch was just self defense, as was Josh Howard throwing Bruce Bowen to the floor, Galloway wouldn't know thuggery if it dangled its balls across his nose.

[Islymore]

The only ones that haven't are the Maverick fans, because they really just have no class.

well gee... thass a lil harsh!

[SpurOutofTownFan]

This Galloway guy doens't know shit about basketball. Is he watching the games at all?

[violentkitten]

randy fucking galloway? :jack yeah, the spurs are "dirty" you old bastid. remember raja bell and eduardo najera? who'd they play for a few years back?

[MadDog73]

This Galloway guy doens't know shit about basketball. Is he watching the games at all?


No. By admission, they either bore him to death, or they come on too late for him to stay awake...

[peskypesky]

Why is everyone whining about how whiny the Spurs are? Isn't that hypocritical and logocally a self-contradiction?

[Obstructed_View]

No. By admission, they either bore him to death, or they come on too late for him to stay awake...
Yeah, that's what makes Kornheiser's takes on the series so great. He watches American Idol and is asleep by 9:15.

[violentkitten]

nowadays a hack "journalist" in every nba city can curry favor with the local franchise by writing that the key to nba success is 'being dirty' and that is why they've sucked as of late, unlike those 'dirty' spurs.

[Obstructed_View]

Randy Galloway wouldn't make any friends in Dallas writing an article sympathetic to the Spurs, even if it means following the NBA rules. He at least knows where his bread is buttered.

[clambake]

Nah, you're just bitter about the Mavs being out of the playoffs and not being able to blame the refs for it. So you find some other series to project your feelings onto.

Chump, I've never once blamed the refs for any loss regarding the mavs. Not once and you know it. I saw Nash get suckerpunched and his teammates coming to his aid. I didn't see them touch anyone else. I guess now is the time for your patented "altercation" response. They certainly didn't seem concerned about any altercation. They seemed concerned about their teammate. I could say Duncan came out on the court and you would respond "no altercation". I saw Duncan, Amare, and Diaw step onto the court with their only intent being concern for a teammate.

Saying I blame the refs is the first time I can question your honesty. And yes, I do feel bad about the way this series will be perceived. I've always been a Tim, Manu, and Tony fan. I think this sucks for them.

[MadDog73]

They certainly didn't seem concerned about any altercation. They seemed concerned about their teammate.

Glad to know you can read minds.

It doesn't matter what their "intent" was. They moved off the bench in what the league called an altercation. I'm sure you think the scrimmage was just a big love fest, but the whole point of the rules is to keep it from escalating. The rule worked: it kept Amare and Diaw from entering the fray. If you let them go, what happens next time?



And yes, I do feel bad about the way this series will be perceived. I've always been a Tim, Manu, and Tony fan. I think this sucks for them.

Please, don't feel sorry for them. :lol

They won't care, just like they don't think the '99 Title has an Asterisk.

[clambake]

I don't believe that about 99 either.

[Obstructed_View]

They seemed concerned about their teammate.
Wrong. Amare was past the point where Nash was when the ref told him to get back to the bench. People like you that will either repeat something they hear without checking their facts or will just outright lie are the reason this rule is so perfect. Mandatory suspension. No discussion. No mitigating factors. No extenuating circumstances. Altercation + leaving bench = suspension.

[clambake]

You're going to have to make this argument from now until next season. Sucks for the big 3.

[MadDog73]

You're going to have to make this argument from now until next season. Sucks for the big 3.


Seriously clambake, you're wrong. The only one who cares about this is you, and a few Suns fans.

And 5 years from now, no one will remember this, just like no one remembers some Mav got Suspended in one of the Mavs-Spurs playoff games...

(see? I already forgot who it was, and for what game? Have you?)

[ChumpDumper]

They seemed concerned about their teammate. I could say Duncan came out on the court and you would respond "no altercation". I saw Duncan, Amare, and Diaw step onto the court with their only intent being concern for a teammate.I saw all three of them with blood in their eyes wanting to kill members of he other team.

Who's right?

Who cares -- they all left the bench. Duncan and Bowen are lucky the league determined there was no altercation.

Don't leave the bench area, don't get suspended. I don't understand why people can't get this.

[clambake]

Good one. Fuckin Terry, what an asshole.

[clambake]

They get the rule Chump. They don't get the interpretation. What people see is mainly what they look for.

Once again, thanks for the phony "blaming the refs" tag. Never happened.

[ChumpDumper]

They get the rule Chump.No they don't. They are trying to make an exception for intent, which is simply not there.
They don't get the interpretation.Don't leave the bench area during an altercation. There is no interpretation necessary.
What people see is mainly what they look for.People haven't looked.
Once again, thanks for the phony "blaming the refs" tag. Never happened.
Pardon me for not knowing your entire posting history. If you don't whine about the refs and Mavs, fine - I believe you. However, your menstrual flow about the bench rule and the Spurs' rep hasn't ebbed after a week, and your arguments calling for selective enforcement of black-letter NBA rules as chosen by popular internets opinion are ludicrous.

[clambake]

I've said all along that I'm a fan of the spurs and all their international players. I don't like the perception anymore than you.

PS. It hasn't been a week yet, so pay closer attention to my flow schedule.

[ChumpDumper]

Hey, you're the one acknowledging the flow....

[VinnyTestesVerde]

No greater whiner than Mark Cuban. Except for this guy.

A rival local sports radio station (1310 The Ticket) here in Dallas has been known to refer to him as "Grandpa Urine"...

http://www.armyofmom.com/galloway.jpg

[clambake]

I guess it's hard to find humor when you're savagely trying to defend a position.

[ChumpDumper]

Savagely?

All anyone has to do to "defend" this position is say stay near the bench.

No one who has bitched about this rule has proposed a new rule that makes any sense.

[clambake]

I think it would be great for the spurs to win this series in game 7.

That's my position. Is that such a bad thing to hope for?

[FromWayDowntown]

I guess it's hard to find humor when you're savagely trying to defend a position.

"Savagely?"

The crowd screaming for Stern to ignore the rules strikes me as far more irrational in this debate.

[ChumpDumper]

I think it would be great for the spurs to win this series in game 7.

That's my position. Is that such a bad thing to hope for?Savage.

[judaspriestess]

Yes, the rule should stand, except there should also be a common sense application.

another fucktard. in other words bend the rules if you can, to benefit the idiots.


This folks is why stupid people are following suit. Like blind sheep following the bellweather to the edge of a cliff and falling off. What gullible people Americans are.
The attention span of a typical fan is about 20 minutes. So now what all these morons are hearing is, Spurs are dirty, Spurs are dirty, Spurs are dirty.
And these dopes just repeat the mantra. Beating the war drum against the Spurs without rationalizing the correctness of the situation.

Since when were the Spurs ever as a team considered dirty?
BORING AND DIRTY are oxymorons, they cannot co-exist. If you are dirty then you create excitement by crossing the line on a regular basis, breaking rules, being a rebel. If anything it should be considered "sexy" what Horry did, you know that badboy everyone secretly desires or wishes they could be.

If anything the Spurs are giving the NBA a much needed lift in ratings. Its been a while since a team has garnered so much attetion. Those damn thugs :toast

[fridge]

I'm only echoing the sentiments of 95% of NBA fans across the country. Written rules are broken all the time, and with intelligence they're altered to reflect what is fair and just.

mate, you have a very basic view of the reason stoudemire and diaw were suspended. if anything, the nba has used more intelligence in the decision than "95% of NBA fans across the country" (thanks for taking the time to ask them all) can appreciate.

the reason why discretion is not used in this rule is very simple, the rule would be worthless if it wasn't strictly applied.

the purpose of the rule is to avoid fights and brawls. it achieves its purpose by making sure players understand they cannot enter the fray when a potential fight might break out.

there is absolutely no reason for an nba player to enter the fray from the bench. diaw and stoudemire claim they just wanted to see how nash was, but they are not medical professionals, they would not be able to help.

this is fair and just because all players and coaches know that the rule will be strictly applied, no matter who they are. what would be 'unfair' and 'unjust' would be a situation where the NBA makes exceptions where marquee or superstar players are involved.

exceptions opens the doors for other players to appeal, with ridiculous excuses that would erode the consistency and effectiveness of the rule. Oh, my coach says i would never fight, i am a nice guy, i don't deserve to be suspended. oh, i am a superstar who really just wanted to check into the game. oh, he started it, it's just not fair.

this type of rule warrants no discretion. It is completely different from a situation where the NBA reviews whether a player purposely intended to elbow another and whether a foul was flagrant or reckless.

let me put it to you another way. would you even care if it was james jones who was suspended rather than stoudemire or diaw? i suspect you wouldn't have been bandying around words such as 'fair' and 'just' if it was a scrub who got suspended... which probably points to the fact you're thinking with your heart and not your head.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why must rules be changed for the 0.2% of millionaire players who can't follow them? Basketball is a game bounded by rules. Deal with it.

[clambake]

Hang on to that. Rule or no rule, it hasn't seemed to change the perception. It is the exact same perception you would chime if the situation were reversed. Serioulsy, I hope they win in 7. SPURS IN 7

[ChumpDumper]

Why should fan perception matter in enforcing the rules?

[violentkitten]

Why should fan perception matter in enforcing the rules?

because popularity matters when your team hasn't made it all the way up that mountain.

[clambake]

I didn't say it did. Game 7 victory would end all this shit. Then the rest of the league could root for the spurs. The way it is now, they can't. Wouldn't be honorable.

[judaspriestess]

Hang on to that. Rule or no rule, it hasn't seemed to change the perception. It is the exact same perception you would chime if the situation were reversed. Serioulsy, I hope they win in 7. SPURS IN 7


Your perception is your reality, very true. Unfortunately weak people can very easily have their perception manipulated. This situation is a perfect example. Stern followed the "prime directive" based on logic not on emotion.
It is what it is.

[ChumpDumper]

I didn't say it did. You said it should.
Then the rest of the league could root for the spurs.They won't anyway, so who cares?
The way it is now, they can't. Wouldn't be honorable.Yeah, all sports fans are gavely concerned with the honor when they demand that black-letter rules shouldn't apply to star players.

[Obstructed_View]

I didn't say it did. Game 7 victory would end all this shit. Then the rest of the league could root for the spurs. The way it is now, they can't. Wouldn't be honorable.
So you want to invalidate a victory just because two players from the other team broke the rules. The rest of the league won't root for the Spurs because they don't root for the Spurs and they would rather see the rules of the sport overlooked in order to see the Spurs lose.

And they (you) can't even man the fuck up and admit that they (you) are doing it.

[clambake]

You said it should.

You're the one that said it should, not me. I'm more inclined to focus on the honorable aspect of victory.

[clambake]

On another note, what's wrong with hoping for game 7 and dispell the perception of theft?

[ChumpDumper]

You're the one that said it should, not me.What the hell are you talking about?
I'm more inclined to focus on the honorable aspect of victory.Which is why you spent the entire thread talking about how the opinion of ignorant fans should matter when it comes to enforcing the rules.

And the rest of the time saying a Spurs trophy this season would be unconditionally tainted.

[Obstructed_View]

You're the one that said it should, not me. I'm more inclined to focus on the honorable aspect of victory.
What's dishonorable about winning fair and square, again?

[ChumpDumper]

On another note, what's wrong with hoping for game 7 and dispell the perception of theft?It's an erroneous preception, so there's no need.

[judaspriestess]

You're the one that said it should, not me. I'm more inclined to focus on the honorable aspect of victory.

so clambake, when Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson and Tim Duncan were ejected from the game for obvious bullshit calls against your team resulting in dallas wins. Where you concerned with the "honorable aspect of victory?"

just curious.

[Obstructed_View]

so clambake, when Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson and Tim Duncan were ejected from the game for obvious bullshit calls against your team resulting in dallas wins. Where you concerned with the "honorable aspect of victory?"

just curious.
He was too busy complaining about how unfair it was for Jason Terry to be suspended for pushing Michael Finley with his knuckles.

[FromWayDowntown]

On another note, what's wrong with hoping for game 7 and dispell the perception of theft?

it's difficult to dispell a perception that has no basis in fact. If people choose to believe that the league hosed the Suns, there's nothing that a game 7 is going to do to erase that choice. The fact, however, is that the league applied a black-letter rule -- one with a mandatory punishment -- in exactly the same way it always has.

As I've said before, the conspiracy talk would have been fueled more, I think, had the league bent over and given a pass to Stoudemire and Diaw because of who they are, which team they play on, and in what situation that team now finds itself.

Let's play a little hypothetical game. Suppose that at the end of Game 4, the Spurs were up 3-1 (having taken games 1-3 and having lost Game 4 just as they did). The exact same thing happens and Stoudemire and Diaw are suspended. Is there the same hue and cry to ignore the rule? I'd be surprised.

Change the hypothetical just a bit. Suppose that at the end of Game 4, teh Spurs are down 3-1 (having taken only Game 3 and having lost Game 4 just as they did). The exact same thing happens and Stoudemire and Diaw are suspended. Is there the same hue and cry to ignore the rule? Again, I doubt it.

The point is that a rule that has a mandatory penalty provision cannot be selectively enforced. The only way that the league could have avoided suspending those guys would have been to say: (1) there was no altercation -- but that would have defied the facts; or (2) that Stoudemire and Diaw didn't leave the vicinity of the bench -- but that's hard to say when each is spotted more than 20 feet away from the bench. Since it was factually impossible for the league to suggest that the rule shouldn't apply to that situation, it was impossible for the league to say that a punishment other than suspension was appropriate. It might be a bad rule, but for now, that IS the rule.

[clambake]

So you think there's discourse from coast to coast for some other reason?

I guess if you maintain a cavalier attitude you could just claim that every fan is stupid. If you only want to hear sugar coated goodness about the spurs (should they win tonight) then I suggest you limit your vacation to SA this year.

As I said before, if the situation were reversed, you'd be having a shit fit, and the right to have it.

[FromWayDowntown]

As I said before, if the situation were reversed, you'd be having a shit fit, and the right to have it.

Actually, if the situation was reversed, I'd understand that a rule is a rule. I'd be upset with the Spurs players for having lost their poise, but I'd understand the punishment.

I'd also have dropped the argument by now.

[judaspriestess]

So you think there's discourse from coast to coast for some other reason?

I guess if you maintain a cavalier attitude you could just claim that every fan is stupid. If you only want to hear sugar coated goodness about the spurs (should they win tonight) then I suggest you limit your vacation to SA this year.

As I said before, if the situation were reversed, you'd be having a shit fit, and the right to have it.

you fail to answer the question asked of you. Its a legitimate question, please do tell us how you feel about the honorable aspect of victory when it comes to your team.

[ChumpDumper]

So you think there's discourse from coast to coast for some other reason?NBA writers write about the NBA.


I guess if you maintain a cavalier attitude you could just claim that every fan is stupid.Most are pretty stupid compared to me.


If you only want to hear sugar coated goodness about the spurs (should they win tonight) then I suggest you limit your vacation to SA this year.My travel plans are not influenced by how other people perceive my favorite NBA team.


As I said before, if the situation were reversed, you'd be having a shit fit, and the right to have it.Absolutely not. Duncan and Bowen were just as stupid to leave the bench, and they were lucky no altercation took place when they did. The rule has existed for ten years, and all these fans, including you, are saying it shouldn't be enforced because a good player broke the rule. That's completely dishonorable.

[TLWisfoine]

On another note, what's wrong with hoping for game 7 and dispell the perception of theft?

Look man, I know its the Spurs and all but it is not their fault that Amare and Boris got off the bench. The rule is pretty clear cut if you get off the bench during an altercation then you will be suspended. The rule has been in effect for years now and it is not like they just suddenly came up with this rule to screw over the Suns. Amare needs to just man up and admit that he failed his team and if they lose he has nobody to blame but himself.

[clambake]

you fail to answer the question asked of you. Its a legitimate question, please do tell us how you feel about the honorable aspect of victory when it comes to your team.

The call on Tim was nuts. Davis and Jackson came a little unglued, could have gone either way. Jackson will go off on anything. They went out of control against the jazz, so I don't find it comparible with the actions of the spurs. I've had longtime respect for the big 3 and feel they deserve respect, not what they're receiving now.

Personally, on the honorable question, I was too disgusted with my teams play to consider honor, only dishonor. In now way was that series going to be decided by mischief, like this series could be.

[ChumpDumper]

In now way was that series going to be decided by mischief, like this series could be.So now following the rules is michief.

You have no honor.

[FromWayDowntown]

I doubt clambake would be making these arguments if it had been Jalen Rose and Eric Piatkowski who had woken up long enough to run to mid-court.

[clambake]

Why don't you just claim me "owned" and make sure to leave on the headphones? You know, if you think it's just sportswriters, you're dreaming. I just hate to see them win this way. The spurs are my 2nd favorite team, and this thing stinks.

I'll get over it, but I'll cheer for suns tonight and spurs on sunday.

[TLWisfoine]

Why don't you just claim me "owned" and make sure to leave on the headphones? You know, if you think it's just sportswriters, you're dreaming. I just hate to see them win this way. The spurs are my 2nd favorite team, and this thing stinks.

Why do you keep acting like its their fault? Did they hold a gun up to their heads and make them get off the bench?

[ChumpDumper]

Why don't you just claim me "owned" and make sure to leave on the headphones?I'll leave that decision to others. IMO you simply haven't even put together a coherent enough argument to be seiously considered.
You know, if you think it's just sportswriters, you're dreaming.Like I said, most of these guys are stupid compared to me.
I just hate to see them win this way.I hate it when NBA players knowingly and stupidly take themselves out of the game too.
The spurs are my 2nd favorite team, and this thing stinks.They are my first favorite team, and this thing is unfortunate, but completely avoidable by Amrae and Boris.
I'll get over it, but I'll cheer for suns tonight and spurs on sunday.Your team loyalties are as flexible and ill-defined as your sense of "honor."

[clambake]

Look, I know the rule. Diehard spurs fans have it memorized, now. If you want to act like you don't understand the contraversy, then so be it. I can't help you pretend it doesn't exist. 3 cheers for game 7. End the noise from outside.

[ChumpDumper]

Look, I know the rule.And I know you wanted it to be ignored for the sake of ignorant fan perception.
f you want to act like you don't understand the contraversy, then so be it. I can't help you pretend it doesn't exist.I know that a baseless controversy perpetuated by ignorance and dishonorable expediency exists.
End the noise from outside.I hope the noise continues. It's seldom that I win arguments without even having to try.

[clambake]

I think you've got that pretend thing down pat.

[Obstructed_View]

Look, I know the rule.
And Diaw and Amare didn't. End of story.

Consider yourself owned.

[v2freak]

Posers copycatting the Spurs. This is nothing new. What's funny is that the guy whining about whiners may just be the biggest one of all.

[ChumpDumper]

I think you've got that pretend thing down pat.I think you have no sense of honor.

[judaspriestess]

The call on Tim was nuts. Davis and Jackson came a little unglued, could have gone either way. Jackson will go off on anything. They went out of control against the jazz, so I don't find it comparible with the actions of the spurs. I've had longtime respect for the big 3 and feel they deserve respect, not what they're receiving now.

Personally, on the honorable question, I was too disgusted with my teams play to consider honor, only dishonor. In now way was that series going to be decided by mischief, like this series could be.

your games were not decided on mischief? :drunk

you just said the call on Duncan was nuts. If Duncan would have stayed in the game, the Spurs would have won? It can certainly be debated. It wasn't a "squeaky clean" win by dallas if you want to base it on honor but you took the win anyway, which is cool, what are you going to do in that instance. Protest the win?

you can't have it both ways. This is what happens when you allow "interpretation" of an iron clad rule regarding leaving the vicinity of bench in an altercation. Its justifiable in one instance to manipulate the rule to ones benefit but in another situation, it remains iron clad? There cannot be any leeway in this situation. Even mark cuban for pete's sake agreed on the ruling I believe.

[cornbread]

Nothing like the fan of losers whining about the way another team wins. What a little girl.

[Obstructed_View]

Nothing like the fan of losers whining about the way another team wins. What a little girl.
Nothing like the fans of all the different losers banning together to try to screw the winner.

[ChumpDumper]

I just don't get how completely destroying the integrity of the NBA rules is somehow honorable.

[cornbread]

Nothing like the fans of all the different losers banning together to try to screw the winner.
Yep. It's absolutely pathetic.