Ginobili vs Barbosa - Sixth Men Numbers Don't Lie

[Mark in Austin]

Comparison over the six game series:

Barbosa: 11.3 pts, 3.7 rebs, 2.5 ast, 0.5 stl

Ginobili: 17.8 Pts, 6.8 rebs, 4.3 ast, 2.5 stl



Ouch. Lost in all the suspension hyper-sensitive coverage is the fact that Ginobili simply outclassed Barbosa.

[2centsworth]

Ginobili got marks against him because he is not really a bench player. He's easily the 3rd best and arguably the 2nd best player on the team.

[BruceBowenFan]

in the words of charles barkely "Ginnnnooooobili

[powerpower]

giiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooobiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiillllllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiii is not a bench player ...he is AMAZAING STUD THAT CAME THRU FOR US LAST NIGHT

WEll all three of them came thru for us :)))

[exstatic]

Ginobili got marks against him because he is not really a bench player. He's easily the 3rd best and arguably the 2nd best player on the team.
LB was their 3rd leading scorer, just like Manu was for us. Bogus argument.

[LuvBones]

LB was their 3rd leading scorer, just like Manu was for us. Bogus argument.Is Barbosa ever the leading scorer?

[2centsworth]

LB was their 3rd leading scorer, just like Manu was for us. Bogus argument.do you only judge a player by PPG? LB is a bench player because Nash and Bell are better. Manu is a bench player because it helps the team.

For you to say it's a bogus argument you must understand the argument first.

[smeagol]

Is Bell really better than Barbosa?

I'm not so sure.

[CubanMustGo]

Is Bell really better than Barbosa?

I'm not so sure.

He's a better flopper and thug, that's for sure.

[timvp]

A) I better not see too many Spurs fans jump on this bandwagon now because I was fighting Sun Fan by myself before the series started saying that Manu was robbed of the award. I couldn't find a Church of Manu member to defend Manu's honor.

B) Parker deserves the credit for destroying Barbosa defensively. His numbers are even uglier if you factor in field goal percentage and turnovers.

[Obstructed_View]

A) I better not see too many Spurs fans jump on this bandwagon now because I was fighting Sun Fan by myself before the series started saying that Manu was robbed of the award. I couldn't find a Church of Manu member to defend Manu's honor.
Apples and oranges. The award is beneath Manu because of what he is. When he's on, and the team needs him, he's one of the top players in the NBA. Barbosa's a good player, but he's absolutely second tier compared to Manu.

[MissouriSpur]

Ginobili when he had 1 quiet game I got so frustrated by announcers saying he was struggling. It was early in series then. Look who is laughing now.

[rob5]

Comparison over the six game series:

Barbosa: 11.3 pts, 3.7 rebs, 2.5 ast, 0.5 stl

Ginobili: 17.8 Pts, 6.8 rebs, 4.3 ast, 2.5 stl



Ouch. Lost in all the suspension hyper-sensitive coverage is the fact that Ginobili simply outclassed Barbosa.
I would take Ginobili over the Anteater anytime.

[aaronstampler]

A) I better not see too many Spurs fans jump on this bandwagon now because I was fighting Sun Fan by myself before the series started saying that Manu was robbed of the award. I couldn't find a Church of Manu member to defend Manu's honor.

B) Parker deserves the credit for destroying Barbosa defensively. His numbers are even uglier if you factor in field goal percentage and turnovers.



LJ, you obviously know how I feel about Manu, but even I was against him getting the 6th man award out of principle. Being labeled a "6th man" when you're the 2nd best player on the team and one of the best 20 players in the league isn't in the spirit of the award I think. I mean it's one thing to be a 6th man when you're a team's 4th or 5th best player, but 2nd best? I don't think that's right. I think the award is this gimmicky thing and if Ginobili himself doesn't care about it, I don't see why any of us should.

[ChumpDumper]

Manu met the qualifications, so I care.

[timvp]

The point is that if an award comes down to Manu Ginobili or Leandro Barbosa and Barbosa comes out on top, something is definitely wrong. Ginobili was eligible so he should have got it. Looking at other aspects outside of the fact that Ginobili was eligible is over thinking the award.

[Obstructed_View]

The point is that if an award comes down to Manu Ginobili or Leandro Barbosa and Barbosa comes out on top, something is definitely wrong. Ginobili was eligible so he should have got it. Looking at other aspects outside of the fact that Ginobili was eligible is over thinking the award.
Meh. I understand that to a point, but when Manu elevates his game, he's twice the player Baboso is and everyone knows it. If Manu had gotten the finals MVP award he probably deserved, this would be less of a sore point.

Considering the huge amount of ill will toward the Spurs during this series, I'm not sure how anybody would expect any Spur to win an award voted for by sportswriters and broadcasters, deserved or not.

[Texas_Ranger]

:owned

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I've been following Manu since his early days in Argentina. He is top 5 in the NBA rght now. He doens't have the flare that otehrs do some market doesn't follow. He's the clutch player. I haven't seen anyone quite like him. Perhaps Kobe. He should have taken finals MVP in 2005. And getting him off the bench is an insult. Still if the NBA analyst would know anything about basketball, they should have give him 6-man award. Pathetic. Perhaps because he's not american and that's all.

It's just too pathetic some spurs fans didn't want anyting with him becaue he was playing sub par games. Heroes do that as well.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I've been following Manu since his early days in Argentina. He is top 5 in the NBA rght now. He doens't have the flare that otehrs do some market doesn't follow. He's the clutch player. I haven't seen anyone quite like him. Perhaps Kobe. He should have taken finals MVP in 2005. And getting him off the bench is an insult. Still if the NBA analyst would know anything about basketball, they should have give him 6-man award. Pathetic. Perhaps because he's not american and that's all.

It's just too pathetic some spurs fans didn't want anyting with him becaue he was playing sub par games. Heroes do that as well.You do know Barbosa is from Brazil, right?

[timvp]

I've been following Manu since his early days in Argentina. He is top 5 in the NBA rght now. He doens't have the flare that otehrs do some market doesn't follow. He's the clutch player. I haven't seen anyone quite like him. Perhaps Kobe. He should have taken finals MVP in 2005. And getting him off the bench is an insult. Still if the NBA analyst would know anything about basketball, they should have give him 6-man award. Pathetic. Perhaps because he's not american and that's all.

It's just too pathetic some spurs fans didn't want anyting with him becaue he was playing sub par games. Heroes do that as well.

:wow

The Church of Manu is back :smokin

[Marcus Bryant]

More proof the the NBA wants the Spurs to win it all every season.

[Strike]

Manu plays for the "boring" or "soft" or "dirty" Spurs.

Barbosa plays for the NBA's poster child Suns.


Manu got hosed.

[Typhoon]

Barbosa is so overated, that guy sucks.

[J.T.]

I wouldn't have mind if Manu and Duncan got co-MVP in 05. They've done that at the All Star Game so why not in the Finals. I said Ginobili should have won this award too but I think the prevailing thought about Manu is that, even though he was eligible, he is still playing a starter's role and will be in the game in clutch situations. He probably lost some votes because of his role on the team, or because America loves the Phoenix Suns and hates the dirty boring Spurs.

[rob5]

I wouldn't have mind if Manu and Duncan got co-MVP in 05. They've done that at the All Star Game so why not in the Finals. I said Ginobili should have won this award too but I think the prevailing thought about Manu is that, even though he was eligible, he is still playing a starter's role and will be in the game in clutch situations. He probably lost some votes because of his role on the team, or because America loves the Phoenix Suns and hates the dirty boring Spurs.
co-MVP in the finals cannot happen. I think its an odd number of voters so there cannot be a tie. Besides, everyone knows it really should have gone to Manu.

[Obstructed_View]

co-MVP in the finals cannot happen. I think its an odd number of voters so there cannot be a tie. Besides, everyone knows it really should have gone to Manu.
If everyone knows it should have gone to Manu, everyone would have known at the time that it should go to Manu, and it would have gone to Manu. The majority of the voters disagreed with you, so there goes the everyone argument.

[2centsworth]

A) I better not see too many Spurs fans jump on this bandwagon now because I was fighting Sun Fan by myself before the series started saying that Manu was robbed of the award. I couldn't find a Church of Manu member to defend Manu's honor.

B) Parker deserves the credit for destroying Barbosa defensively. His numbers are even uglier if you factor in field goal percentage and turnovers.

a. i don't consider manu a bench player so i don't care if he wins an award for best bench player. however, if i would have seen suns fan trying to argue LB is better than Manu I would have fought that tooth and nail.

b. It will be argued LB missed a lot of wide open 3s and FTs, but I think parker was totally in the kids head. Parker's D is awesome when he gives the energy. For example, I've never seen anyone defend AI's cross over except Parker.

[2centsworth]

If everyone knows it should have gone to Manu, everyone would have known at the time that it should go to Manu, and it would have gone to Manu. The majority of the voters disagreed with you, so there goes the everyone argument.
to even get 40% of the vote on a team with Tim Duncan is pretty darn impressive.

[Obstructed_View]

to even get 40% of the vote on a team with Tim Duncan is pretty darn impressive.
Absolutely. I'd have never thought it was unfair for one or the other to get it. I just took issue with that particular "everone knows" statement. Since I had my own "everyone knows" statement earlier, I'm not opposed to them in general.

[ArgSpursFan]

to talk of manu as a 6th man is kind of disrespectfull,He is probably one of the Best PLAYOFFS players in the league,He just doesnt do the same in the reg season cause of fatigue and injuries.I´m glad He didn´t get the 6th man aword,He is on a diferent/higher level.

[sa_butta]

Im glad we have Ginobili over Barbosa, they can have their Sixth man trophy. We are going to for it all. Ginobili is so much more aggressive and such a smart player. He really redeemed himself from the mistake last year.

[2centsworth]

to talk of manu as a 6th man is kind of disrespectfull,He is probably one of the Best PLAYOFFS players in the league.
my thoughts exactly. I'll argue with you if you want to debate if he's one of the best players in the league, but not for the 6th man award. In my mind, it's beneath him.

[ArgSpursFan]

my thoughts exactly. I'll argue with you if you want to debate if he's one of the best players in the league, but not for the 6th man award. In my mind, it's beneath him.

Being consisten just kill him in the reg season,in order to be consider one of the best guards in the league.but if He gets to the playoffs healthy...............Them watch out!

[2centsworth]

Being consisten just kill him in the reg season,in order to be consider one of the best guards in the league.but if He gets to the playoffs healthy...............Them watch out!

I don't think health has much to do with it. I think it's emotions. When he plays with emotion, he's an excellent player. I think the suns calling out the spurs and all the extra stuff touched a nerve in Manu.

[Spider TX]

Guys, this award, just like the MVP, ends at regular season's end. And in every important statictical category for these 2 players, Barbosa was superior. Manu had more rebounds per game, but that really doesn't matter when considering these 2 players. And Manu was .015 better fom the line, but that is so miniscule. Barbosa was 1.6 PPG better, better from the field, better from 3, more assists. In the regular season, Barbosa was the clear choice for 6th man. In the post season, all your arguments are legit, Barbosa did not compare.

[Spider TX]

Also, yes, right now, Manu is probably the better player to get the win for his team, but he is also 5 years older than Barbosa. Barbosa can play, and is only getting better each and every year, but the one main thing Manu has on him is aggressiveness and the experience of winning.

[2centsworth]

Guys, this award, just like the MVP, ends at regular season's end. And in every important statictical category for these 2 players, Barbosa was superior. Manu had more rebounds per game, but that really doesn't matter when considering these 2 players. And Manu was .015 better fom the line, but that is so miniscule. Barbosa was 1.6 PPG better, better from the field, better from 3, more assists. In the regular season, Barbosa was the clear choice for 6th man. In the post season, all your arguments are legit, Barbosa did not compare.don't you think offensive statistics are overstated in phoenix's system? It's like passing and receiving numbers at texas tech. Though I like barbosa and think he would do very well on the spurs, Manu beyond a shadow of a doubt is the superior player. With Manu you have to take into account the spurs system of offense. nevertheless, if you think barbosa is better sobeit.

[Spider TX]

I never said Barbosa is the better player, not right now. Will he be come the time he gets to Manu's age compared to Manu now, I really think so, but we will have to wait and see. However, the award goes very much so on the numbers, along with maybe a couple other factors, but numbers mean so very much for the award, and Barbosa was superior there. And during the regular season, Barbosa does a lot while Nash rests, so he benefits less on Nash's distribution skills than do other players on the team.

[ChumpDumper]

Damn, Barbosa sucked this series.

[ducks]

Damn, Barbosa sucked this series.
no he did not he got owned by tp :ihit :ihit :ihit :ihit

[Spider TX]

Damn, Barbosa sucked this series.

I must agree with you. If he could make his layups this series, he would have averaged 18, but along with uncharacteristic bricks from 3 point land, he was probably 50% on layups.