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duncan228
05-21-2007, 11:38 AM
Does this redeem Wojnarowski? EDIT: Different writer- my mistake. But a great article!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AveE1u.aQKVniWtiBveGFT28vLYF?slug=aw-duncan052007&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

The selfless superstar

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
May 20, 2007

SAN ANTONIO – As Jerry Sloan watched his players drop deeper and deeper into disarray in Game 1, it wasn't the scoreboard that troubled the coach as much as his Utah Jazz's conduct on the court. They would make a mistake and one would snap on another, roll eyes, scrunch a face, and the suggestion was unmistakable to him.

Everyone was passing the blame, refusing consequences for the corrosive basketball to start Sunday.

Across the past decade in the NBA, coaches have tired of telling teams this, but Sloan needed to do it again in the opener of the Western Conference finals.

Hey knuckleheads, watch Tim Duncan, will you?

"They (threw) a pass over his head, and he took responsibility for it," Sloan said of Duncan and his San Antonio Spurs teammates. "And our players wanted to make the fault for somebody else."

Duncan is playing the best basketball of his life again, and yes, of course, here we go again, America groans. The Big Fundamental. Blah, blah, blah. Beginning with Duncan's peerless performance, this 108-100 Game 1 victory over the Jazz stands a testament to the staying power of this franchise and its superstar. He had 27 points, 10 rebounds, five assists and two blocks, and an Eastern Conference scout studying him courtside said simply, "He's never been better, never been more dominant, in his career."

Yes, the Spurs are still boring. They're still leaving America angling for Shaq Fu, or the go-go Suns, anyone but San Antonio, the dynasty destined for its fourth championship in a decade. They'll never be the people's choice. They'll just be a modern dynasty for all time.

They have a general manager, R.C. Buford, with the eye to find the perfect complementary parts across the globe – Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker and now Fabricio Oberto.

They have the top executive and coach, Popovich, who is on his way to the Hall of Fame with three titles.

Mostly, San Antonio has Tim Duncan.

"Unlike a lot of superstars these days, he's willing to put his ego aside for the betterment of the team," Michael Finley said.

Francisco Elson, who arrived this season from Denver, believes that, with the way Duncan understands basketball, the way he prepares every game, "he would make a great coach some day." Only that'll never happen. For that job, he'd have to answer too many questions, lord over too many players so unlike him.

Someday, Duncan, 31, will retire and that'll be that. Knowing him, he'll be gone and never look back.

Between then and now, Duncan and these Spurs won't save basketball's decline in civility, the Me Generation's takeover. We're past that. With three championship trophies on the mantle, few still try to emulate Duncan, the franchise's embodiment. Kids don't wear his jersey and don't try to perfect his bank shot. Truth be told, the Spurs have probably never been as popular in this culture as when Bruce Bowen kneed Steve Nash in the groin and Robert Horry cross-checked him into the scorer's table. That's how it goes.

When these playoffs are over, everyone will know the MVP in this league. It won't be Dirk Nowitzki, nor Nash, nor Kobe Bryant. The league MVP will be Duncan. Again. And good luck trying to get Duncan to talk about it. Anyone else, and they would be telling you all about how they've been constantly overlooked in San Antonio, how it was a crime that Denver's Marcus Camby was voted the league's defensive player of the year, and that how despite declarations made elsewhere, no one has ever truly dethroned him as the best player in the sport.

"If it's possible to be the most appreciated and the most taken for granted, that's what Tim is," Spurs assistant coach P.J. Carlesimo said. "We just assume every day that he's going to dominate both ends of the floor, take and make big shots. When we don't win, he's going to say, 'It's on me.' When we do win, he's not going to say anything.

"He's so consistent, so unassuming, you tend to forget how special he is."

Duncan has never had his coach fired. He's never had a public feud with a teammate. When he could've been the No. 1 pick as a sophomore, he stayed four years at Wake Forest. When he had a chance to leave San Antonio for bigger, splashier markets as a free agent, he re-signed to stay here.

The Spurs are the sport's model franchise because Duncan demands nothing less of it.

Think about this: In his decade with San Antonio, when have you heard a grouse out of that locker room? Ever heard a player complain about minutes? About how the coach uses him? About how little he's appreciated?

Around the Spurs this season, most believe that Ginobili would prefer to start, but he's accepted his sixth man role this season without a word.

Outside San Antonio's locker room Sunday afternoon, Carlesimo nodded his head and simply pointed back toward those concrete walls where Duncan was dressing.

"As great as Pop is, it starts with your best player," Carlesimo said. "You can't sit in that room every day with Tim, see the way he is, and be selfish or an ass yourself. When arguably the best player in the game is the way he is, how can you be any other way? And it would never be tolerated here."

As close as there's ever been to what happens almost every day, almost everywhere else in this league, came in Duncan's first months in uniform in 1997. A Spurs veteran approached Popovich about the kid getting so many shots. There were some teammates talking about it, the player told him. There could be some chemistry issues.

No, Popovich reportedly countered, there weren't teammates talking about it. Only that one guy and, sorry, but this was the way it was going to be here for a long, long time.

Funny, but when Popovich started coaching in the NBA, Sloan's Jazz were his own personal model; just how they played, how they carried themselves, how they competed. Those were the Stockton-Malone Jazz of the 80's and 90's, and amazingly now, Utah hasn't won a game in San Antonio since 1999. Now, the Jazz are the upstarts again, young and talented and on the rise. Sloan won't win this series, but he'll do his damnedest to teach some lessons for the future.

"We know who we are playing against, one of the great, great teams and you find out who you are," Sloan said. "We were looking for excuses. If one guy made a mistake, it was someone else's fault."

And so, Jerry Sloan watched that pass elude Tim Duncan's reach, and he couldn't help but get angrier with his own guys when the best player on the floor, the best in these playoffs, and maybe still the best player in this game, turned back and delivered that message of the ultimate franchise player: It's on me.

WalterBenitez
05-21-2007, 11:44 AM
Great article, I like Tim Duncan as leader, as social model ... and a rare SuperStar ... unique guy!!!

Melmart1
05-21-2007, 11:46 AM
This is a completely different writer.

michaelwcho
05-21-2007, 11:55 AM
Lately, I've been reading the Jordan Rules and also "The Show" about the Laker's dynasty (from Mikan to Shaq)...the dirt they have on all those teams is amazing. Constant squabbling, fighting, lack of unity. Jordan not trusting his teammates, checking on his stats before each game; Pippen throwing up shots to get a better contract; Kareem jealous because Magic won MVP of their first championship; Shaq riding Kobe incessantly; Kobe so cocky he couldn't carry on a conversation with his teammates--damn primadonnas!

My impression from reading these books is that the reality of the locker room in general, is 180 degrees from what fans think or wish. Which makes the unselfishness and team-first attitude of the Spurs, over the long haul, so incredible!

SRJ
05-21-2007, 11:55 AM
Boy, the writers are pissing me off today.


THE SPURS ARE DIRTY!
THE SPURS ARE DIRTY!
THE SPURS ARE DIRTY!
Don't you just admire Duncan and the Spurs winning ways? Why is the public so down on the Spurs, anyway?

01Snake
05-21-2007, 11:57 AM
Nice!

Dingle Barry
05-21-2007, 11:57 AM
All I know is that when Duncan plays his last basketball game, wherever it is, I will cry like a little girl.

ObiwanGinobili
05-21-2007, 11:59 AM
Don't get your polish dudes mixed up - the asshole with the * was Gene Wojciechowski

duncan228
05-21-2007, 12:01 PM
Don't get your polish dudes mixed up - the asshole with the * was Gene Wojciechowski

:lol No wonder I liked this article!
I thought (obviously) that it was the same guy and he'd gone even crazier!

duncan228
05-21-2007, 12:02 PM
This is a completely different writer.

:oops

jmard5
05-21-2007, 12:06 PM
Wojnarowski has been possessed. It is not him.

foodie2
05-21-2007, 12:06 PM
As close as there's ever been to what happens almost every day, almost everywhere else in this league, came in Duncan's first months in uniform in 1997. A Spurs veteran approached Popovich about the kid getting so many shots. There were some teammates talking about it, the player told him. There could be some chemistry issues.

Any ideas who that might have been?

spursgrl20
05-21-2007, 12:07 PM
All I know is that when Duncan plays his last basketball game, wherever it is, I will cry like a little girl.

I know exactly what you mean, I'm going to do everything in my power to be there when his jersey is retired...................with kleenex in hand. :cry

GrandeDavid
05-21-2007, 12:15 PM
Quite simply, Tim Duncan is greatness.

MaNuMaNiAc
05-21-2007, 12:16 PM
Does this redeem Wojnarowski?

I don't know if it does, but he's sure trying his darnest isn't he? :lol Still, I couldn't agree more. Duncan is and will always be the standard with which every other Spur will be measured, and it damn well should be the whole league. Seriously, can ANYONE find ANYTHING wrong with the way this man carries himself? I sure as hell can't.

MadDog73
05-21-2007, 01:11 PM
Tim Duncan = Greatness.

I really can't say anything more than that!

duncan228
05-21-2007, 01:18 PM
I don't know if it does, but he's sure trying his darnest isn't he? :lol Still, I couldn't agree more. Duncan is and will always be the standard with which every other Spur will be measured, and it damn well should be the whole league. Seriously, can ANYONE find ANYTHING wrong with the way this man carries himself? I sure as hell can't.

Agree completely. He should be the league's standard. The player's that are idiots, like Artest and anyone else with law trouble, shouldn't get the press they do.
I know Duncan prefers to be out of the media spotlight but the league is just stupid not to try to use him more. He's who I want my kids looking up to. I don't care if he's "boring." Like you said, I can't find a thing wrong with the way he carries himself on and off the court.

bdictjames
05-21-2007, 01:20 PM
"We just assume every day that he's going to dominate both ends of the floor, take and make big shots. When we don't win, he's going to say, 'It's on me.' When we do win, he's not going to say anything."

Wow.

Borosai
05-21-2007, 01:21 PM
I don't know if it does, but he's sure trying his darnest isn't he? :lol Still, I couldn't agree more. Duncan is and will always be the standard with which every other Spur will be measured, and it damn well should be the whole league. Seriously, can ANYONE find ANYTHING wrong with the way this man carries himself? I sure as hell can't.

Joey Crawford. :dramaquee

Jockularity!
05-21-2007, 01:27 PM
Tim Duncan is the greatest player since Michael Jordan. Period. There's no discussion.

bdictjames
05-21-2007, 01:28 PM
Tim Duncan is the greatest player since Michael Jordan. Period. There's no discussion.
WOW.

Best big man since Abdul-Jabbar then?

Jockularity!
05-21-2007, 01:29 PM
WOW.

Best big man since Abdul-Jabbar then?

I would say so. A case can be made for Shaq I suppose, but Duncan is a better passer, a better shooter and a better defender.

bdictjames
05-21-2007, 01:31 PM
Well, we are Spurs fans.

Laker fans would beg to differ.

I have a question though: who would win, Shaq or Duncan one-on-one in their primes? Or who is more unguardable in their prime?

Jockularity!
05-21-2007, 01:33 PM
Well, we are Spurs fans.

Laker fans would beg to differ.

I have a question though: who would win, Shaq or Duncan one-on-one in their primes? Or who is more unguardable in their prime?

Heh, well I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a blatant homer. In his prime one-on-one I'd say Shaq because of his power. However, in the long run I'd say Duncan is the better player, which is what makes him the best big since Kareem. Duncan's had consistency that Shaq hasn't.

Doug Collins
05-21-2007, 02:15 PM
Duncan = god

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 02:15 PM
lets the overrating continues.... :rolleyes

i think the article autor is confused duncan with manu, same for finley.

"Unlike a lot of superstars these days, he's willing to put his ego aside for the betterment of the team,"... WTF duncan had (has?)/have put aside??????????

ChumpDumper
05-21-2007, 02:19 PM
lets the overrating continues.... :rolleyes

i think the article autor is confused duncan with manu, same for finley.

"Unlike a lot of superstars these days, he's willing to put his ego aside for the betterment of the team,"... WTF duncan had (has?)/have put aside??????????
Wow, your Duncan hate has affected your brain activity.

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 02:21 PM
:cry




















































:lol

Summers
05-21-2007, 02:26 PM
lets the overrating continues.... :rolleyes

i think the article autor is confused duncan with manu, same for finley.

"Unlike a lot of superstars these days, he's willing to put his ego aside for the betterment of the team,"... WTF duncan had (has?)/have put aside??????????

I tried to babblefish that and still couldn't understand it, but please don't get me started on who's overrated in this league.

Jockularity!
05-21-2007, 02:34 PM
I really didn't give Shaq enough credit. I let the last two seasons factor in way too much, but over their careers the two are neck-and-neck.

Shaq: 25.9 PPG, 11.6 RPG, 2.5 BPG, 2.8 APG
Tim: 21.8 PPG, 11.9 RPG, 2.5 BPG, 3.2 APG

A considerable difference though: Tim's averaged a double-double EVERY SEASON. Shaq's had five in which he hasn't.

polandprzem
05-21-2007, 02:38 PM
Different Poles of view

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 02:40 PM
I tried to babblefish that and still couldn't understand it, but please don't get me started on who's overrated in this league.

i mean, finley used a abstrac term "egoism", but speacking in concrete terms...WTF duncan had (has?)/have put aside????????

i think the rest is understandable

easjer
05-21-2007, 02:43 PM
I too will cry like an unfed, wet baby when Duncan retires. He's my favorite players, possibly ever.

I would love to meet him in person.

Summers
05-21-2007, 02:44 PM
i mean, finley used a abstrac term "egoism", but speacking in concrete terms...WTF duncan had (has?)/have put aside????????

i think the rest is understandable

I think it's self-explanatory. Finley is saying he puts his ego aside for the team. In other words, he never thumps his chest or talks about how great he is or expects his teammates to kiss his feet. He just wants the team to play well.

spursgrl20
05-21-2007, 02:46 PM
exactly, and Pop will yell at him and let him know if he screwed up, treats him like everyone else on the team. a lot of stars in the league would be annoyed by that i'm sure.

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 02:47 PM
no valid argumemt for me

picnroll
05-21-2007, 02:48 PM
lets the overrating continues.... :rolleyes

i think the article autor is confused duncan with manu, same for finley.

"Unlike a lot of superstars these days, he's willing to put his ego aside for the betterment of the team,"... WTF duncan had (has?)/have put aside??????????
Jealous annonymous? Help me out annonymous. Name a Laker star of the modern era, starting with Kareem who hasn't been an asshole?

ChumpDumper
05-21-2007, 02:48 PM
no valid argumemt for meAnd your argument is Duncan can't win a championship without Manu execpt he already has.

smeagol
05-21-2007, 02:49 PM
Wojnarowski - Wojciechowski

Man, I had to put those two last names side by side in order to be convinced they are not the same guy!

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 02:50 PM
exactly, and Pop will yell at him and let him know if he screwed up, treats him like everyone else on the team. a lot of stars in the league would be annoyed by that i'm sure.

mmmmmhhh...really?, i dont recall any...i just recall pop kissing his ass even if he is playing like crap

smeagol
05-21-2007, 02:50 PM
Different Poles of view
Does your last name also start with a W, end with an i and has a bunch of consonants in a row? :lol

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 02:51 PM
And your argument is Duncan can't win a championship without Manu execpt he already has.

the 1/2* ring? :lol

spursgrl20
05-21-2007, 02:51 PM
how many Spurs games have you watched exactly?

smeagol
05-21-2007, 02:52 PM
mmmmmhhh...really?, i dont recall any...i just recall pop kissing his ass even if he is playing like crap
Don't watch the Spurs to much, huh?

spurs_fan_in_exile
05-21-2007, 02:58 PM
Any ideas who that might have been?
Possibly Sean Elliott. When the Spurs retired his jersey Buck Harvey did an article of his 32 favorite Sean Elliott memories (much like the 50 he did for DRob). One of them went something like, "Always concerned with the good of the team, Sean approached the coaching staff to voice his worries that the Spurs latest draft pick was hurting the team's offensive chemistry. They listened politely and then assured him that it was alright. They wanted Tim Duncan to take a lot of shots."

My apologies to everyone if I'm wrong about that.

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 03:01 PM
i just want to people to be objetive, give the credit that manu deserve, and dont overvalue duncan

cya

ChumpDumper
05-21-2007, 03:02 PM
the 1/2* ring? :lolI've never seen half a ring or an asterisk in the record book.

Since every sane person in the world thinks differently, the onus is on you to prove your argument.

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 03:05 PM
phil jackson and many, many ones are insane?

ChumpDumper
05-21-2007, 03:07 PM
I'm talking about your Duncan argument.

The asterisk one has been dismissed out of hand.

Jockularity!
05-21-2007, 03:08 PM
i just want to people to be objetive, give the credit that manu deserve, and dont overvalue duncan

cya

I doubt anyone thinks Duncan could join say, the Hawks and win a championship. To win a title obviously takes guys willing to fill a role. But you also need that elite level player. With the exception of Detroit in 2004, every team dating back to the '70s has had a megastar catalyst. I think it's safe to say if you were to replace Duncan with someone like Marcus Camby (a good player but by no means a superstar), San Antonio doesn't have the trophy case its built the last eight years.

ChumpDumper
05-21-2007, 03:12 PM
And please prove to all of us how Manu's 9.4 points on .386 shooting carried Duncan and his 24.7 points on 53% shooting, 15.4 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 3.29 blocks in the '03 playoffs.

We're waiting.

Summers
05-21-2007, 03:15 PM
phil jackson and many, many ones are insane?


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t36/writermom1/tagcopy.jpg

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 03:20 PM
And please prove to all of us how Manu's 9.4 points on .386 shooting carried Duncan and his 24.7 points on 53% shooting, 15.4 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 3.29 blocks in the '03 playoffs.

We're waiting.


http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1703718&postcount=188

ChumpDumper
05-21-2007, 03:21 PM
That isn't proof.

Jockularity!
05-21-2007, 03:22 PM
"The Spurs would have three less championships without Tim Duncan." - Planet Earth

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 03:22 PM
tell him to pop

ChumpDumper
05-21-2007, 03:26 PM
Why are you speaking in ducks?

Tell me how Manu is better than Duncan in '03.

anonymous coward
05-21-2007, 03:39 PM
i didnt say that manu is better than duncan, i said that w/o manu's courage, clutchness, playmaking, etc... duncan doesnt go anywhere.
do you understand?

"Why are you speaking in ducks?"...WHAT?????

ChumpDumper
05-21-2007, 03:41 PM
If you could produce a quote where Pop says the Spurs would have championships without Duncan, you would be onto something.

Sec24Row7
05-21-2007, 03:48 PM
Any ideas who that might have been?


If it hasnt been said already... that was Sean Elliott

duncan228
05-21-2007, 03:48 PM
Pop has said many times that without him (Pop) there would be championships. Without Duncan there would be none.

Trying to find the exact quote, but Pop has said it often.

spurs_fan_in_exile
05-21-2007, 03:51 PM
If it hasnt been said already... that was Sean Elliott
So I wasn't just making that up. Thank goodness.

BreezeHillBill
05-21-2007, 04:08 PM
Well, we are Spurs fans.

Laker fans would beg to differ.

I have a question though: who would win, Shaq or Duncan one-on-one in their primes? Or who is more unguardable in their prime?
One on one? Up and down the court? Shaq wouldnt ever make it past half
court while Tim was heading back from scoring!

Shaq couldn't score if he couldn't jam his hand in the basket. When did he ever singlehandedly defend jump shots from up to 12 feet out? Tim would smoke him.

Summers
05-21-2007, 04:44 PM
Pop has said many times that without him (Pop) there would be championships. Without Duncan there would be none.

Trying to find the exact quote, but Pop has said it often.

Hasn't Pop joked several times that his resignation will be turned in about 2 minutes after Tim's?

picnroll
05-21-2007, 04:52 PM
Hasn't Pop joked several times that his resignation will be turned in about 2 minutes after Tim's?
Wasn't a joke.

Jamtas#2
05-21-2007, 05:18 PM
i didnt say that manu is better than duncan, i said that w/o manu's courage, clutchness, playmaking, etc... duncan doesnt go anywhere.
do you understand?

"Why are you speaking in ducks?"...WHAT?????

...and without Pippen, no rings for Jordan. And without Kobe/Wade, no rings for Shaq...without Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe no rings for Phil...etc...
yes we understand it takes more than one person to win the ring, but Tim is still the biggest reason (among several) why spurs won 3 titles.

carina_gino20
05-22-2007, 03:45 AM
Hasn't Pop joked several times that his resignation will be turned in about 2 minutes after Tim's?

didn't he say 30 seconds? :lol :depressed

J.T.
05-22-2007, 04:05 AM
Don't get your polish dudes mixed up - the asshole with the * was Gene Wojciechowski

That last name deserves an * because it has too many letters and is hard to pronounce.

flipcritic
05-22-2007, 04:36 AM
Why are you speaking in ducks?

:lmao