Boozer and Williams in the Post-Game

[GSH]

They interviewed Boozer and Williams together after the game. They both came across as intelligent, well-spoken, and professional. Boozer, in particular, seems like a player that would fit well in the Spurs' organization. The Jazz still have to climb Mt. Spur, and I don't see any way it happens this year. But it is easy to understand why they are one of the four teams left.

[easjer]

They interviewed together after the last game.

And they both wore suits and ties to each.

Sharp dressers, those two.

[drumplayer]

"A team's greatness can be measured by the strength of its adversaries."

[GSH]

They interviewed together after the last game.

And they both wore suits and ties to each.

Sharp dressers, those two.

Yeh, I forgot to mention that. Boozer really looked at home in that suit. I didn't see them in the last post-game, but tonight they were two guys that you have to pay attention to. No excuses, no bullshit. They know they have a very difficult job, but not ready to pack it in by a long shot.

[exstatic]

Boozer is a fucking dick. He tricked a blind man, former Cavs owner Gordan Gund, into not picking up his option for year 3 so that the Cavs could pay him the MCE. Then he went and signed with Utah. Nice.

So, let's summarize: he plays defense for shit, and he's a liar/trickster. NOT Spurs material

[austinfan]

I was really impressed with Deron Williams, given the fact that he's only 22 years old.

And for sartorial elegance at the podium, no one has surpassed Tracy McGrady so far in the playoffs. Although I did have a WTF? moment when he showed up in a trench coat while it was sunny and 85 in Houston.

[T Park]

Give me a fucking break Ex, Boozer next to Duncan would be twice what Duncan and Robinson was.


Tricked a blind owner. I bet if the Owner could've gotten over on Boozer he would've also.

Boozer and Derron Williams can play for me any day of the week.


BTW, sweet suits tonight Carlos and Derron. :tu

[exstatic]

Give me a fucking break Ex, Boozer next to Duncan would be twice what Duncan and Robinson was.

OK, that's plain fucking stupid. Boozer played defense that make Fabs look like a fucking All
Star.

DRob/Timmy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Booz/Timmy


Tricked a blind owner. I bet if the Owner could've gotten over on Boozer he would've also.
The owner was trying to cut him a break and sign him to the MCE a year early, because as a second round pick, he didn't make very much his first two years. No good deed goes unpunished. Gund could have easily said "No, play your 3rd year". So, he signs the deal with Utah, that under the former CBA, Cleveland can't match. Then, he tries to force a trade to the Lakers by basically sitting almost a year over the span of two seasons with a hamstring. It wasn't torn, and didn't require surgery. He did his rehab in LA. Big surprise.

[FireSternin2007]

Boozer is a fucking dick. He tricked a blind man, former Cavs owner Gordan Gund, into not picking up his option for year 3 so that the Cavs could pay him the MCE. Then he went and signed with Utah. Nice.

So, let's summarize: he plays defense for shit, and he's a liar/trickster. NOT Spurs material

Actually, the Cavs wanted to pay him a below market salary in exchange for making him a free-agent one year early. Such an agreement is illegal. The Cavs organization, and many NBA organizations in general, make promises they intend to keep only for as long as it is convenient to them. Boozer had a choice to make, become a star and be the main go-to guy in Utah and receive $30 million more than Cleveland offered, or remain in Cleveland, play in Lebron's shadow, and hope that Cleveland didn't screw him over later. I'd say Boozer made the right move.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Y'all are fucking idiots.

1. Boozer's aforementioned Gundgate regarding his contract. You don't go back on a gentlemen's hand shake. That's bullshit.

2. They're Utah. Fuck any sympathy or class. We've gotten put out in the playoffs by the Jazz in recent memory. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

[El_Mago]

Give me a fucking break Ex, Boozer next to Duncan would be twice what Duncan and Robinson was.


Tricked a blind owner. I bet if the Owner could've gotten over on Boozer he would've also.

Boozer and Derron Williams can play for me any day of the week.


BTW, sweet suits tonight Carlos and Derron. :tu


Wow.

You should never disrespect David Robinson like that....even if you're talking about David and Duncan in David's declining years.

You're talking about an MVP, Two-Time NBA Champion, Gold Medalist, etc....

[exstatic]

Actually, the Cavs wanted to pay him a below market salary in exchange for making him a free-agent one year early. Such an agreement is illegal. The Cavs organization, and many NBA organizations in general, make promises they intend to keep only for as long as it is convenient to them. Boozer had a choice to make, become a star and be the main go-to guy in Utah and receive $30 million more than Cleveland offered, or remain in Cleveland, play in Lebron's shadow, and hope that Cleveland didn't screw him over later. I'd say Boozer made the right move.
I'm sure that's the way the Utah papers spun it.

from Gordon Gund (http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gund_boozer_040714.html)

Liar liar pants on fire...

[T Park]

You should never disrespect David Robinson like that....even if you're talking about David and Duncan in David's declining years.

You're talking about an MVP, Two-Time NBA Champion, Gold Medalist, etc....

Please.

Thats not disrespecting Robinson, its just how damn good boozer is.

Period.

[FireSternin2007]

I'm sure that's the way the Utah papers spun it.

Can't say I formed my opinion from any Utah papers as I wasn't living in the country at the time. Fact is, Cleveland was trying to make a deal that wasn't legal. Boozer had every right to do what he did, and he says he had no agreement with Cleveland. So it comes down to his word vs. Cleveland's in terms of a "gentleman's agreement" but legally everything was legit. And now both teams are in the conference finals. No harm no foul.

[exstatic]

Please.

Thats not disrespecting Robinson, its just how damn good boozer is.

Period.
Boozer is as much of a one way player as Nash. The lane is our turnstile.

[GSH]

Boozer is a fucking dick. He tricked a blind man, former Cavs owner Gordan Gund, into not picking up his option for year 3 so that the Cavs could pay him the MCE. Then he went and signed with Utah. Nice.

So, let's summarize: he plays defense for shit, and he's a liar/trickster. NOT Spurs material

The Cavs tried to make an illegal contract with Boozer by calling it an "understanding". The T-Wolves nearly got penalized out of existence for trying the same thing with Joe Johnson. They got what they deserved.

More importantly, they tried to use that single season to extort a longer-term contract with Boozer for less than he was worth. Why? Because they needed to save enough money to pay LeBron James. How much less? Only about $30 Million.

All Gund had to do was sign his name, and they had Boozer for one more year for 700K. He said he "showed trust" in Boozer. And in exchange for that trust, Boozer was supposed to give up $30 Million? Face it...Gund tried to pull a fast on on the league rules, and it bit him in the ass.

[dbreiden83080]

Wow.

You should never disrespect David Robinson like that....even if you're talking about David and Duncan in David's declining years.

You're talking about an MVP, Two-Time NBA Champion, Gold Medalist, etc....

If D-Rob and Timmy played together in their primes for say 10 years, they would have won maybe 7 or 8 titles.

[judaspriestess]

I will definately give them credit for not whining and complaing like our previous opponent.

[T Park]

The lane is our turnstile.

sure didn't look like that in the second half.

Boozer played the pick and rolls pretty good in the second half.

[conqueso]

Please.

Thats not disrespecting Robinson, its just how damn good boozer is.

Period.

I mean, seriously guys, Boozer next to Duncan is obviously not anywhere near Robinson and Duncan together.

Think about it like this. If Boozer were on the Spurs, Duncan's offensive role would be diminished, just like Robinson's was when Timmy came on board. Boozer would get more touches because he's a better all around scorer. The problem with that scenario is that when it happened with Tim and David, David was still an elite defender. I think he was still top 3 post defender even with gimpy knees and bad back at the age of 37, a MUCH better defender than Boozer could ever be. So you've got a repeat of the Robinson-Duncan situation with the roles reversed in with Duncan-Boozer, except Boozer can't play defense like either Tim or David. You get slightly better scoring, but much worse defense. And with the way the Spurs are constituted now with two other All-Stars picking up scoring slack, you don't need scoring, you need interior defense. And Robinson-Duncan >>>>>> defense than Duncan-Boozer.

[braeden0613]

It is very hard to hate these jazz...

classy organization

[kris]

Please.

Thats not disrespecting Robinson, its just how damn good boozer is.

Period.

Comparing Boozer to Robinson is disrespect. Boozer is a flavor of the month. Robinson was a cornerstone for 13 years.

You need to watch some old David video.

[T Park]

Just think of it like this.

Boozer would be in when Duncan wouldn't and vice versa.


You tell me how the offensive touches wouldn't work.


Points are moot as it is, it aint happening.

[T Park]

Comparing Boozer to Robinson is disrespect. Boozer is a flavor of the month. Robinson was a cornerstone for 13 years.

You need to watch some old David video

It isn't disrespect.

I saw old David in person, and Boozer is a better offensive player, not as good defensively.

[kris]

I won't even give you offensively. If David didn't defer to Tim, he still puts up 23 and 11 on a Sean Elliott-Avery Johnson in 2002.

[SpursIndonesia]

IMHO, Boozer is a LIAR with capitals. But indeed he's a badass offensive player down low.

[FireSternin2007]

IMHO, Boozer is a LIAR with capitals. But indeed he's a badass offensive player down low.

Easy to place ourselves on a pedestal and claim the moral high ground when no one is waving 30 million and a chance to be a star in our face.

[conqueso]

Just think of it like this.

Boozer would be in when Duncan wouldn't and vice versa.


You tell me how the offensive touches wouldn't work.


Points are moot as it is, it aint happening.

What, so you're suggesting that Boozer would be Duncan's backup?

Isn't it far more likely that most of the time, they'd be on the court together?

And then who gets most of the touches on offense? I guy who has to struggle to score 25 in a night, or the guy who easily scores 25?

And what do you mean "points are moot"? That doesn't really make sense because it doesn't convey meaningful information.

Bottom line: While Timmy and Boozer would get about 40 ppg between them while DRob and Timmy only got about 30 ppg together there at the end, DRob's defense down low was solid even when his offensive numbers weren't, but Boozer's defense down low is as soft as two-ply. With the Spurs not in need of addition scoring, Boozer's contributions on offense would be superfluous, whereas his detriments on defense would be glaring compared to the Twin Towers.

What about this don't you understand?

[GSH]

Y'all are fucking idiots.

1. Boozer's aforementioned Gundgate regarding his contract. You don't go back on a gentlemen's hand shake. That's bullshit.

That says a lot about you Aggie. See, gentlemen don't make handshakes that are fucking illegal. It's an oxymoron. Sort of like an Aggie moron. The same...but different.

[conqueso]

That says a lot about you Aggie. See, gentlemen don't make handshakes that are fucking illegal. It's an oxymoron. Sort of like an Aggie moron. The same...but different.

How exactly was that deal illegal?

Unenforceable, maybe. But illegal? WTF?

[SpursIndonesia]

Easy to place ourselves on a pedestal and claim the moral high ground when no one is waving 30 million and a chance to be a star in our face.


It's understandable -everybody's looking for their own interest- but that doesn't make it RIGHT. You deceive other by dishonoring your promise, than you're a LIAR, as simple as that.

Principally, Boozer wanted to get out of his contract, knowing in advance that he could cash in that summer, but couldn't without tricking his employee. So he DID that exactly. Are we in agreement ?

[FireSternin2007]

While its entertaining to conjure up parallel universes in which Magic Johnson is throwing alley-oops to Vince Carter while Boozer and Duncan have a hayday in the low post, I think this thread is getting out of control. Boozer will never be a spur. He'll most likely never be as good as Duncan, but only time will tell, and a several future championships, if any.

[GSH]

And BTW - David, in his prime, kicks Boozer's ass too many ways to count. I made the comment that Boozer seems intelligent and well-spoken. He obviously has a lot of talent on the court. But there have been a lot of fantastic talents in the NBA over the years, and David is high in the list of Top 50 All-Time. The comparison is just silly.

My point was that the Spurs value smart players, and have done well with that philosophy. The chance of Boozer playing alongside Duncan is nonexistent. Why not speculate what it would be like to have Shaq playing in the post with Duncan?

[DOMINATOR]

And for sartorial elegance at the podium, no one has surpassed Tracy McGrady so far in the playoffs. Although I did have a WTF? moment when he showed up in a trench coat while it was sunny and 85 in Houston.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/DOMINATOR5/gadgets.jpg

[FireSternin2007]

It's understandable -everybody's looking for their own interest- but that doesn't make it RIGHT. You deceive other by dishonoring your promise, than you're a LIAR, as simple as that.

Principally, Boozer wanted to get out of his contract, knowing in advance that he could cash in that summer, but couldn't without tricking his employee. So he DID that exactly. Are we in agreement ?

absolutely not. You have no idea what Boozer was and was not thinking or what Cleveland did or didn't do. You have no right to claim he is a liar. All I've presented are ideas that I pulled from doing my own research.

[GSH]

How exactly was that deal illegal?

Unenforceable, maybe. But illegal? WTF?

If they had actually reached an agreement it would be illegal by the league's rules. Not illegal like a criminal action. But by the league's standards, as bad as it gets. The sanctions against the T-Wolves were easily the most harsh punishment ever for a team.

It's sort of like bribing a public official, and then getting mad when he doesn't vote in your favor. You may have a beef, but you can't act self-rightous about it.


Principally, Boozer wanted to get out of his contract, knowing in advance that he could cash in that summer, but couldn't without tricking his employee. So he DID that exactly. Are we in agreement ?

Ummm...the Cavs wanted to lock up a good player for a lot more years. But they couldn't without pretending to make him a free agent, with an under-the-table deal already in place. They tried to cheat, and it backfired on them. Did Boozer take advantage of their greed? Yep. But from the moment they offered an illegal contract deal...screw em.

[El_Mago]

David Robinson in his prime would clean the floor against Boozer in his prime (this might actually be Boozers prime).

David was the better athlete, better defender, just as good as a scorer, rebounded better, etc.....

Seriously, Boozer and Duncan in their primes can probably get you various WCF and possibly a championship or two....

Duncan and a on the decline David Robinson got the Spurs two titles....I would bet Duncan and Robinson in their prime could have been a true dynasty......too great defenders, two amazing scorers, two terrific rebounders, two unselfish players, TOO DAMN GOOD....

[mikekim]

I mean, seriously guys, Boozer next to Duncan is obviously not anywhere near Robinson and Duncan together.

Think about it like this. If Boozer were on the Spurs, Duncan's offensive role would be diminished, just like Robinson's was when Timmy came on board. Boozer would get more touches because he's a better all around scorer. The problem with that scenario is that when it happened with Tim and David, David was still an elite defender. I think he was still top 3 post defender even with gimpy knees and bad back at the age of 37, a MUCH better defender than Boozer could ever be. So you've got a repeat of the Robinson-Duncan situation with the roles reversed in with Duncan-Boozer, except Boozer can't play defense like either Tim or David. You get slightly better scoring, but much worse defense. And with the way the Spurs are constituted now with two other All-Stars picking up scoring slack, you don't need scoring, you need interior defense. And Robinson-Duncan >>>>>> defense than Duncan-Boozer.

nicely put

[conqueso]

absolutely not. You have no idea what Boozer was and was not thinking or what Cleveland did or didn't do. You have no right to claim he is a liar. All I've presented are ideas that I pulled from doing my own research.

Obviously none of us have a window into Boozer's soul, but look at the facts. Do you honestly think the Cavs would have just given Boozer the right to become a restricted free agent out of the goodness of their own hearts, knowing that another team could give him more money, without getting something from Boozer in return? Seriously, the smart business decision would be to keep him on his last year at the team option and underpay him, then try to free cap space to resign or do a sign-and-trade the next year. But they didn't. The only possible reason that a sophisticated bargainer would let him go restricted was if they reasonably expected him to re-sign with the Cavs for less than the max, but near his actual worth. That's the only explanation that makes sense. Now, the Cavs say that Boozer gave his word he would resign, and it's hard for me to believe they would have declined to pick up his option without some assurance from him. So, the only logical explanation is that Boozer stabbed them in the back. What about this is wrong?

[conqueso]

If they had actually reached an agreement it would be illegal by the league's rules. Not illegal like a criminal action. But by the league's standards, as bad as it gets. The sanctions against the T-Wolves were easily the most harsh punishment ever for a team.

It's sort of like bribing a public official, and then getting mad when he doesn't vote in your favor. You may have a beef, but you can't act self-rightous about it.

My understanding of the CBA is that they can't have an enforceable contract agreement in place prior to declining the option. Now, if you have an agreement that you will "seriously consider" the team's subsequent offer, and you know financial situation of the team (since salaries are pretty much open to the public), you can accurately extrapolate what that subsequent offer would be worth. But I don't think that's outside the parameters of the CBA.

Either way, the "deal" that Boozer and the Cavs entered into probably wasn't an "illegal" contract, but it probably wasn't just a gift to Boozer either. Had the Cavs known he wasn't going to resign with them, they certainly wouldn't have declined the option. But they did in good faith, and while their deal with Boozer might not have been enforceable as a legal contract, it certainly was one person going back on their word. I think that's the only point anyone is trying to make, and it is pretty shady. Like Cushman's dad in Jerry Maguire.

Boozer's one hell of a player. He almost single-handedly allowed me to win my yahoo fantasy bball league this year. But I certainly wouldn't trust him at the bargaining table.

[GSH]

Had the Cavs known he wasn't going to resign with them, they certainly wouldn't have declined the option.

Damn!!! If the Cavs had "known" that he was going to re-sign with them, then they had a deal and broke the league's rules. Period.

Here...these are Gund's own words in his open letter to Cav's fans afterward: "I told him that as we could not have an agreement at that time given the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement, we would have to trust one another’s intentions."

Wink, wink! Having a deal would have been illegal, so we didn't have a deal. We had something just like a deal. Something binding, but not really binding like a deal. We offered Carlos something that was worth a lot more than $30 Million. We offered him...and understanding. And the chance to remain a Cav, and to keep playing for a team that values him $30 million less. And we expected him to honor that understanding. Only it wasn't a deal, okay? Because that would have been illegal.

[SRJ]

:lol Carlos Boozer being mentioned as something roughly equivalent to David Freaking Robinson.

At various points in his career, David Robinson led the league in scoring, rebounding, and blocked shots (a triple only equalled by some stiff named Kareem Abdul-Jabbar), he won an MVP award, a DPOY, and 10 All-Star teams in 13 seasons. He was the All-NBA First Team Center 4 times, this during Hakeem's heyday and in Shaq's early, skinny years.

Carlos Boozer is a nice player, a polished, skilled offensive player who just had a career year. Would he compliment Tim Duncan nicely? Sure. He already compliments Deron Williams very well, and it's apparent that Utah is on the cusp of several great seasons to come.

Having said all that, Carlos Boozer is not very close to David Robinson. It's like the only image some of us have of DRob is the old, weak-kneed, broken-down DRob from his last few seasons. Because of Tim's greatness and the recency effect, some of us have forgotten what an unbelievable player David Robinson was.

[Nbadan]

Get off Dave's high-horse, Dave was nice, but he wasn't NBA Championship nice till Timmy came along.

[Nbadan]

By the way, if I was a rookie GM starting a team from scratch, I'd take Williams or Boozer in a heart beat.

[milkyway21]

wow :wow
Duncan vs Boozer

Robinson vs Boozer

let's hear it from Utah.

“Duncan's probably the best player to ever play the position the way he plays it,” Utah coach Jerry Sloan said.

That's saying something, because that comes from the man who once coached Karl Malone. Sloan now mentors Boozer, who like Stoudemire before him has had some luck attacking Duncan inside and using his explosiveness against him.


But Boozer said before the series he is “not even close” to Duncan as a player, even if he tries to emulate him.

“We may have some similarities, we may have some vast differences,” Boozer said. “The bottom line is we try to be dominant inside presences for our teams.”

-----------------

[Slinkyman]

If they had actually reached an agreement it would be illegal by the league's rules. Not illegal like a criminal action. But by the league's standards, as bad as it gets. The sanctions against the T-Wolves were easily the most harsh punishment ever for a team.

It's sort of like bribing a public official, and then getting mad when he doesn't vote in your favor. You may have a beef, but you can't act self-rightous about it.



Ummm...the Cavs wanted to lock up a good player for a lot more years. But they couldn't without pretending to make him a free agent, with an under-the-table deal already in place. They tried to cheat, and it backfired on them. Did Boozer take advantage of their greed? Yep. But from the moment they offered an illegal contract deal...screw em.

how many times have the spurs done something like this? I think Bowen opted out to get a longer deal but less money per year, but they deal was pretty much done before he opted out.

[41times]

Man if i was starting a team today, I don't think i could pick a better young tandem than Boozer and Williams.

Boozer is a beast and gets the most out of his size of anybody in the league since Charles Barkley.

and Williams is only in his second year and he is averaging over 20 points and 10 assists in the Western Conference Playoffs! are you kidding me.

Gimme both and i will build a heck of a team around them.......Oh wait Utah is already doing that. That's going to suck for the West over the next 5 years.

[SRJ]

Get off Dave's high-horse, Dave was nice, but he wasn't NBA Championship nice till Timmy came along.

Carlos Boozer wasn't even second round nice until Deron Williams came along.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Please.

Thats not disrespecting Robinson, its just how damn good boozer is.

Period.

Tpark, stick to petty insults of forum posters. It's obvious you don't know a thing about the game of basketball.

You prop up a guy in Boozer that had to get to playing against Yao and Stephen Jackson in the post to look good.

He's been relegated to a jump shooter in this series against a decent big in Tim.

[Saguaro]

That says a lot about you Aggie. See, gentlemen don't make handshakes that are fucking illegal. It's an oxymoron. Sort of like an Aggie moron. The same...but different.
Corrupt backroom deals are pretty much standard in Texas, especially in the backwoods, so I can see how an Aggie would think it violates some moral code.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That says a lot about you Aggie. See, gentlemen don't make handshakes that are fucking illegal. It's an oxymoron. Sort of like an Aggie moron. The same...but different.

:rolleyes I love the petty insult in a lame attempt to prop up your weak point. You don't think backroom deals get done in the NBA? You're nuts.