College Students Screwed: Aid Slashed

[Nbadan]

Nearly a quarter of low- and moderate-income college students who currently qualify for federal Pell grants will see their awards reduced or eliminated under a change in federal rules that Congress allowed in its new spending bill passed over the weekend, according to an estimate from higher education analysts.

About 85,000 of the 5.2 million students currently eligible to receive Pell grants will become ineligible. And 1.2 million others will get a smaller award under a new formula the government will use to determine how much families can afford to pay for college, according to estimates from the American Council on Education, or ACE. The change will take effect for students starting or returning to classes next summer or fall.

Higher education officials worry that the change, estimated to save the government about $300 million in next year's budget, will hurt students already struggling to pay for college.

''Nobody knows if the change will actually lead anybody to abandon their plans for postsecondary education," said Terry Hartle, senior vice president at ACE. ''The best-case scenario is that families will have to dig deeper to pay for college, perhaps by working more hours or taking out more loans."

Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/11/23/us_aid_for_college_students_slashed)

Now we know were the administration plans on getting more troops.

[SpursWoman]

Wow...then maybe they'll have to get loans and pay them back like the rest of us did. The horror.

[Shelly]

Wow...then maybe they'll have to get loans and pay them back like the rest of us did. The horror.


Naaahh...they can just call Jim! :lol

[MannyIsGod]

Maybe they will SpursWoman, but maybe when the rest of India moves to Fredricksburg to work for USAA we'll all stop wondering why.

Our priorities are fucked in this country when the president and congress manage to appropriate money for so many damn useless things such as promoting marriage and don't allocate enough money for education.

A HS diploma gets you so damn far nowadays.

Sincerely,
One bitter ass student who has never been able to get a Pell Grant because he held a job even though he was still poor as fuck.

[SpursWoman]

Sincerely,
One bitter ass student who has never been able to get a Pell Grant because he held a job even though he was still poor as fuck.


Why would it make one bitter expecting others to have to pay for their education the way you do, by actually having to work for it?

There are also tons of private organizations that offer scholarships & grants, people serious about completing their education don't have to rely on the government exclusively for educational assistance.

[MannyIsGod]

Why am I bitter?

Because the fact that I choose to work the government said no no, we can't give you any grant money, yet people who sit on their ass and come from households who have made more money get grants?

Yeah, NO REASON.

[MannyIsGod]

And on top of that, when I see all the fucking things the government wastes money on, and the shit contracts they give to lobbyists and friends, and I can't get a fucking helping hand?

I don't ask for free shit as a rule, and I make my own way. But asking that my tax dollars are invest in a smarter way that will only benifit our country isn't too much to ask.

[MannyIsGod]

THE BOTTOM LINE:

With jobs going overseas because of a more educated workforce as well as reports that entail the decline of our education system, we should be doing everything possible to make it EASIER for students to pursue a higher education.

If nothing else, we should maintain the current SUBSTANDARD levels of help available.

You are free to take a self righteous "I paid my own way, why can't they" stance, but in the end it will end up only hurting htis country.

[sbsquared]

To some extent, I agree with you. The government gives WAY too much money to porkbarrel projects and neither party is free from blame. We subsidize farmers and tobacco growers and lots of other things that probably shouldn't be.

I believe a lot of the blame can be placed on Congressmen (and women) who come from very priveleged backgrounds and they don't know the meaning of living within their means or budgets that must be kept. Put some hard-working middle class people or single parents who really know what it means to tighten the belt and we would probably see a big difference.

But nobody wants their "pet" project or cause cut, and so the government has to cut something, and, unfortunately, education seems to be the thing that most people won't scream about! It's very sad!

For example, I was in Dallas yesterday and was reading the paper - there was a story about a young woman who got pregnant at 17 and had quadruplets! She isn't married, the father of the babies is married to another woman and isn't paying any child support. The idiot young woman doesn't want to hassle him about child support, she wants him to pay it voluntarily! However, this woman gets over $500 a month from social security for each baby! The girl is a high school dropout and will probably never amount to much and by the way, did I mention she's pregnant again by the same guy!! This really hacks me off - why should taxpayers pay for her stupidity, but the father doesn't!! The $24,000 a year that she's getting from social security would more than pay the complete bill for my daughter's year of college and she's at a private university.

[SpursWoman]

Why am I bitter?

Because the fact that I choose to work the government said no no, we can't give you any grant money, yet people who sit on their ass and come from households who have made more money get grants?

Yeah, NO REASON.




I just asked why it should make you bitter, not that you didn't have a reason to be.

I never could get grants, either...and I've known people who have got them in excess of their need and used it as beer money. I've had more than my fair share of "life's not fair" situations, too. :)

[SpursWoman]

n/m

[MannyIsGod]

I don't mean to argue, I just get fired up. You know how hard headed I am.

[Hook Dem]

I don't mean to argue, I just get fired up. You know how hard headed I am.
Hey Manny.....believe it or not I understand. However, I am proud of you for choosing to work. Good luck man!!!!

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

You know, we're going to have a staff editorial tomorrow about this in The University Star.

I'm getting grants, but any excess money goes towards books or rent. The excess cash has been getting less and less to the point that it doesn't cover all of my tuition and fees here at State.

I've had to take out loans to supplememt the rest. I was only able to register for six hours before the early reg stopped and I recieved an early "bill" for $1200. That's not a lot compared to some private schools, but it's the school I chose. Once I finish registering for spring, it'll probably top out at around $2600 for the semester in tuition and fees alone.

I also have a job that takes me back to San Antonio once a week and on weekends, along with another job that takes me to Austin 2-3 times a month. That doesn't even include my time at The University Star.

I also have about $9000 in loans already and will probably hit $15K by the time I finish.

I'll admit that the criteria for choosing pell grant recipients is flawed and old, but a family making little money probably can't afford college without some help. If the help's there, give it to those that truly need it.

I'd be happy to subject myself to more questions about my income if it meant I could have more of it paid for if I couldn't afford college.

Same for you, SW. If you could show your situation at the time and could prove your drive was there to finish college, I'd want the money go to helping you better your life at the expense of somebody's beer money without a second though instead of you having to take out extra loans.

[Shelly]

My husband's med school was a private school. I think tuition at the time was around $20k a year. So not only did we borrow for that but extra just to live (we were living in San Francisco). He also deferred payments for 3 years. So tack on interest and our student loan payment is actually a 2nd mortgage for us (it's more than my mortgage).

Manny, he looks at his loans this way; as an investment. And that's what they are. An investment in his career.

BTW, we wouldn't have qualified for a grant either. He wasn't working, but I had a job it certainly was not enough to survive on especially living in SF.

[Guru of Nothing]

I hear the military has a nice tuition savings program.

No pain, no gain.

[Bandit2981]

what always sucked for me was that i was too average...i wasnt poor enough to get pell grants, so all my financial aid has been a loan, i believe im in debt about 23,000 right now. as for scholarships, my grades were about average, not exceptional, so i miss out on those too :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I hear the military has a nice tuition savings program.

No pain, no gain.

And a lot of students already do this, but once again you miss the point.

In this instance you're asking students to risk their lives for an education.

How is that enticing to very many students?

Also, you run the risk of getting people into the military soley for the purpose of money, and then you get a military loaded with people who really shoudln't be there.

I WANT MY TAX DOLLARS REINVESTED SMARTER.

Quite frankly, I'm tired of the majority of money going TO the military while students find it harder each year.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, and this doesn't even go into how tutition just keeps going, up, up, AND UP.

[CommanderMcBragg]

I think they should increase the college benefits for those who serve in our military.
If they are brave enough to risk their necks they deserve to reap the benefits.
But I would say you have to serve at least a 4 year hitch.

[Hook Dem]

There ya go Commander!

[Guru of Nothing]

And a lot of students already do this, but once again you miss the point.

In this instance you're asking students to risk their lives for an education.

How is that enticing to very many students?

Speaking of enticements, college education = bigger paychecks. You are going to attend college regardless, correct? There's not much incentive for me, as a taxpayer, to give you money.



Also, you run the risk of getting people into the military soley for the purpose of money, and then you get a military loaded with people who really shoudln't be there.

Money fuels the military. With less money, your ass would get drafted. Patriotism makes for a nice sound bite, but, no money, no military.



Quite frankly, I'm tired of the majority of money going TO the military while students find it harder each year.

Quite frankly, so long as you have discretionary income, I, as a taxpayer, do not want to give you money, unless I one day make it to a gtg; then I'd buy you a drink.

[Clandestino]

the military has a great savings plan...when i was in i had to pay 100 a month for 12 months for a total of 1200 to get the gi bill.. now i am making 1000 a month for 36...best investment i ever made!

[MannyIsGod]

But you support the amount of money our military is getting now GoN?

[Guru of Nothing]

But you support the amount of money our military is getting now GoN?

In essence, you are now asking me if I support the war in Iraq, and we are no longer talking about your personal finances.

I am against all unnecessary government spending. How's that?

[MannyIsGod]

fair enough.

[mysterious_elf26]

There are also tons of private organizations that offer scholarships & grants, people serious about completing their education don't have to rely on the government exclusively for educational assistance.

I'll be laughing my fuckin ass off when you have a bunch of kids and have to pay for all their college tuition.

Yes, there are a bunch of scholarships out there, but shouldn't education be also part of the governments responsibility? I'm serious about my education and my grades show it, but over half of my tuition is covered by grants. I have no time to write papers and go do interviews for a scholarship while I could use that time to study.

MannyIsGod is right, we could be saving money in so many ways. What has the world come to that we could afford to put education in the backseat. And they wonder why our struggling education system is what it is compared to other countries.

[violentkitten]

why should i pay so you can get rich. take some responsibility

[SpursWoman]

I'll be laughing my fuckin ass off when you have a bunch of kids and have to pay for all their college tuition.



It's called birth control. Don't have more kids than you can afford. :)

[SpursWoman]

A while back I also enrolled "all my fucking kids" in this (http://www.texastomorrowfunds.org/) program.

It's also called financial planning and utilizing programs and resources available to their fullest. My children will have every opportunity to lead a successful, happy life.....that's my job as their parent, not anyone else's...I'm not relying on anyone else but me. If they do happen to get grants or earn scholarships, I get to do some serious shopping. :)

[Hook Dem]

I'll be laughing my fuckin ass off when you have a bunch of kids and have to pay for all their college tuition.

Yes, there are a bunch of scholarships out there, but shouldn't education be also part of the governments responsibility? I'm serious about my education and my grades show it, but over half of my tuition is covered by grants. I have no time to write papers and go do interviews for a scholarship while I could use that time to study.

MannyIsGod is right, we could be saving money in so many ways. What has the world come to that we could afford to put education in the backseat. And they wonder why our struggling education system is what it is compared to other countries.
Nice to see you expect the government and my tax dollars to support your family. Someone failed to educate you long before you got into school. Good luck on your vision as to how the world should be. It's all about me isn't it?

[JoeChalupa]

If we can spend billions to rebuild Iraq's schools we sure as hell should be able to find the billions needed to fix the schools here in the US.

I remember hearing about something called "No Child Left Behind".

[JoeChalupa]

We all benefit from tax dollars.

[Hook Dem]

We all benefit from tax dollars.
Good liberal view Joe.

[JoeChalupa]

Well don't we? Do you not benefit from our tax dollars that pay for our military, police, fire fighters, roads, disaster relief, etc...not only liberals my friend.

[MannyIsGod]

How the hell is that statement a liberal view???

[Hook Dem]

There comes a time when benefits lead to handouts.

[Hook Dem]

How the hell is that statement a liberal view???
Manny! Do I need to draw you a picture?

[MannyIsGod]

I pay into the damn system, how is anything a handout?

I'll tell you what handouts are. Those big ass contracts that huge corporations get because of personal influence and their lobbys.

HALIBURTON anyone???

[Hook Dem]

I pay into the damn system, how is anything a handout?

I'll tell you what handouts are. Those big ass contracts that huge corporations get because of personal influence and their lobbys.

HALIBURTON anyone???
Broken Record

[JoeChalupa]

A benefit isn't always a handout but I agree that some may become accustomed to "handouts".

I know some say that the military has too many "handouts" for housing, food allowance, and medical care.
I hate it when our senior citizens and those in need get a "handout" for a flu shot or a "handout" at the Jiminez Thanksgiving feast.

I hate it when big corporations get a huge "handout", err..tax break.

I hate it that our ex-presidents continue to receive "handouts" after their term in office is over.

Why is paying taxes a "liberal" view?

[Hook Dem]

"Why is paying taxes a "liberal" view?" ............Didn't say that Joe!

[MannyIsGod]

well fuck, i get pissed when I hear grants refered to as "handouts". That's bullshit plain and simple. Those fat government contracts are a far bigger waste than anything that goes to students, yet people see this as an appropriate place to start cutting back?

As far as the comments about not having more kids than you can afford, I think that's great advice for parents and potential parents to follow.

However, if they don't, do you then just turn a blind eye to the kid that is trying to better themselves? Do you let he or she become a far bigger tax burden on the society in the future and perpetuate the cycle?

What a lot of people in here don't realize because they only read about it in the paper or see it on the news is the reality of these situations and how they are perpetuated by a lack of education.

If you want to fight the war on poverty and unequality in this country, you do so by educating as many people as possible. You put as many of your citizens through college as possible.

You guys said above that student loans should be viewed upon as an investment by the students,and I argue that Pell Grants and the like shoudl be viewed upon as an investment by society as a whole.

As a whole, our society is being surpased at every education level by countries around the world. This means a decline in wages overtime, and general lower standards of living in the United States because of a lack of higher paying jobs.

I'm telling you right now, your government is fighting the wrong battle inthe wrong place. If you want to secure America's future, you better start right here with our youth, not overseas.

[MannyIsGod]

BTW, this is not the only way it's getting harder for students. Public Universitys keep raising tution and fee's for services like the library and parking because they are desperate for money to run their programs.

more funding anyone????