Has everyone's idea of the offseason changed?

[T Park]

With how well Fabricio Oberto has played, Horry saying he wants another year.

Does that change your mind on wanting Mahinmi, Scola, to be brought over?

QUESTION

[DarrinS]

Package Elson and Vaughn for ....


whoever?

[T Park]

Id say Beno and Elson before Vaughn.

But id go for those two for a second round pick.

Move Oberto and Horry down the bench, make Butler the starter next year.

Or, Oberto the starter, Butler the main guy off the bench, and Horry your towel waving veteran.

[td4mvp3]

Package Elson and Vaughn for ....


whoever?
throw beno in there too.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think it's still important for this team to start incorporating some youth into its rotation. Likewise, the 800 pound gorilla in the room is that the Spurs never did have to deal with Nowitzki in these playoffs. If the Spurs are to repeat a long playoff run in 2007-08, they need youth, they need some additional length on the wings, and they need to find guys who can consistently rebound the basketball.

[The Truth #6]

Excellent point by FWD.

[whottt]

We need a f'n SF. Period.


I was never that big on replacing the three C's we have...Oberto, or Elson, or Butler.

They are all bargains...you don't trade bargains for the unknown in the NBA.


We need to get a SF.

I personally do want Mahinimi brought over....because either Pau is not training him, or they are putting it off.

I don't think they are going to put a lot of effort into developing a player that is only going to be there until he gets good...

I think we need to bring him over, this summer.

I don't know about Scola...I've never been a fan, but I have to admit the idea of Team Argentina coming off the bench sounds really nice...especially after watching the way Manu and Oberto have meshed so well lately.


I am not in favor of dumping both Barry and Finley in the offseason...

Remember what it was like when we didn't have shooters? I don't want to repeat that era of Spurs history voluntarily.


So..

I think we should bring over Mahinmi and try to aquire Noccioni or anotherr SF from one of the teams that has a surplus of them, like GS or Chicago.

I am thinking we might be able to work something with GS...I have a feeling Nelly would rather see Pop win titles than Cuban.

Anyway...Mahinimi and Noccioni...I'd like that.
Keeping Elson, Butler, Horry, Barry, Finley and Oberto...possibly Vaughn or Beno.

[ChumpDumper]

Beno, Barry, Vaughn and any of the big men other than Duncan, Horry and probably now Oberto could be replaced with varying degrees of ease, so there could be alot of room on the roster.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm guessing they'll shop Elson, Beno and (gasp) Barry this summer to try to bring in some other players. If Horry is actually staying, he's going to be very limited during the regular season. They may choose to start Oberto and have Butler as the main backup at C, but they'll still need an athletic, rebounding 4 to play behind Tim.

Vaughn has been okay this year, but more his leadership role than his on the court play. So they need another PG and need to get rid of Beno. Someone might take him because he's young.

Youth at the wings is very important. Bruce/Manu/Finley/Barry is a scary combination, age-wise. They'll need access if James White is going to be an actual NBA player or just a 15th man.

Overall I'd like 3 things.

1. Young swingman (2/3)
2. Athletic PF/Tall SF who can rebound
3. Backup pointguard

One can be a draftee, one via trade, and one via free agency. I guess if they can get at least two of the three, they should be in decent shape.

[SenorSpur]

Geat question. Horry can stay around. If he does, it may retard Bonner's development. Even at his advanced age, Horry is still a better, more trusted defender than Bonner. Fab has probably bought himself another year. I'm not sure what to make of Elson. Though, he still seems to be confused on the defensive side. I want to see either Ely or Butler work out.

On the international side, Mahinmi may need another year of seasoning. Screw Scola. Use him, Beno and Barry as possible trade bait if you have to. I'd love to see the Spurs pursue and successfully land either Gerald Wallace or Mikael Pietrus. Andres Nocioni is another possible long shot.

At some point, the Spurs have to gradually begin to integrate another layer into their core rotation. This will be vital in order to keep up with the ever-improving conference. Nothing drastic, but the infusion of 1-2 younger, cheaper players and a possible FA is definitely in order.

[whottt]

Youth at the wings is very important. Bruce/Manu/Finley/Barry is a scary combination, age-wise. They'll need access if James White is going to be an actual NBA player or just a 15th man.

.

Yeah...but what's also scary is not having any shooters


Sin,

2001
2002
2004

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah...but what's also scary is not having any shooters


Sin,

2001
2002
2004

I didn't say they should trade both Finley and Barry. I think only one of them will be gone.

[ChumpDumper]

Ian can take Ely's roster spot.

We're only going to get a tall SF through trade or free agency.

There are decent PGs avaiable at our spot in the draft, but a vet will still be necessary for third string like this season.

[whottt]

I didn't say they should trade both Finley and Barry. I think only one of them will be gone.



I agree with you on the age thing...don't get me wrong...I'm just not sure this offseason is the time to make that decision...we don't know that White is going to be the next Jax yet.


It's a damned if you do damned if you don't thing....

We need to develop some young talent, but that is often a conflict of interest for a team that contends every single year for a championship.

And 2 guard/swing is our oldest position...but it's also our deepest and most versatile...if White is paying attention, he's seeing every thing he'll ever need to know about playing the 2 guard position, due to the combined talents of Manu, Finley, Barry and Bruce...

That's one hell of a 2 guard there.

When Jack broke through...we didn't really have any alternatives...Smitty was done and Pop had no choice really...Pop's got choices now so I'm not really expecting James White to duplicate what Jack did.

[Bruno]

To me, it's too soon to answer at that question.
I will wait to see if Spurs win the championship this year and who plays well.

[Kori Ellis]

I agree with you on the age thing...don't get me wrong...I'm just not sure this offseason is the time to make that decision...we don't know that White is going to be the next Jax yet.


It's a damned if you do damned if you don't thing....

We need to develop some young talent, but that is often a conflict of interest for a team that contends every single year for a championship.

And 2 guard/swing is our oldest position...but it's also our deepest and most versatile...if White is paying attention, he's seeing every thing he'll ever need to know about playing the 2 guard position, due to the combined talents of Manu, Finley, Barry and Bruce...

That's one hell of a 2 guard there.

When Jack broke through...we didn't really have any alternatives...Smitty was done and Pop had no choice really...Pop's got choices now so I'm not really expecting James White to duplicate what Jack did.

I honestly don't get what you are saying. :lol Your post says we need a SF. But then you are telling me that we shouldn't get rid of any of Manu/Finley/Barry/Bruce. So you want a five man rotation at the wings?

[whottt]

Ian can take Ely's roster spot.

We're only going to get a tall SF through trade or free agency.

There are decent PGs avaiable at our spot in the draft, but a vet will still be necessary for third string like this season.


Who's the SF? Suggestions?


As for backup PG...

I am still on the fence about Vaughn...the man is hitting his open shots, and he's hitting them in pivotal moments of the game, he hustles...

I don't really see anyone better out there that could be easily had...

[SenorSpur]

I'm guessing they'll shop Elson, Beno and (gasp) Barry this summer to try to bring in some other players. If Horry is actually staying, he's going to be very limited during the regular season. They may choose to start Oberto and have Butler as the main backup at C, but they'll still need an athletic, rebounding 4 to play behind Tim.

Vaughn has been okay this year, but more his leadership role than his on the court play. So they need another PG and need to get rid of Beno. Someone might take him because he's young.

Youth at the wings is very important. Bruce/Manu/Finley/Barry is a scary combination, age-wise. They'll need access if James White is going to be an actual NBA player or just a 15th man.

Overall I'd like 3 things.

1. Young swingman (2/3)
2. Athletic PF/Tall SF who can rebound
3. Backup pointguard

One can be a draftee, one via trade, and one via free agency. I guess if they can get at least two of the three, they should be in decent shape.

Great summary, Kori. Wonderful wish list.

Quick couple of questions. With regards to James White, what do you mean by "they'll need access "?

Also what is your assessment of White, considering the short time he was actually on the court? Do you think he's shown enough to have earned another look next year?

[texasqb2]

I'd like to keep Tony, Finley, Manu, Bowen, Duncan, and Oberto only. I think everyone else is expendable. I know Butler is a project, but I am not interested in him and I don't believe the Spurs are either...of course they aren't going to publically dog Butler b/c they may have some trade value, but the guy is a fat pig who will never be in shape.

[whottt]

I honestly don't get what you are saying. :lol Your post says we need a SF. But then you are telling me that we shouldn't get rid of any of Manu/Finley/Barry/Bruce. So you want a five man rotation at the wings?


It's a catch22...

And I think it's something the Spurs are thinking about.

I agree...it sucks having all that age in that one area of the team, and we do need to pump some youth in...

At the same time...they are old, but they are still one hell of a 2 guard collectively, and they do play a role in our championship hopes.

It's not an easy decision to make IMO...and that's why I'm not so sure we should make it this offseason...I am talking about letting one of the old guys go for White...

I think we should definitely take a look at White first.


As for SF...to me that's a different need..I mean we need a legit SF there, none of which MaFinBarBru are.

If you are talking about moving one of them(Barry most likely) for Noccioni or something...the Spurs won't think twice about that...it'll be done.

[Kori Ellis]

I meant they'll need to assess if he's going to be able to make it in the league. I'm guessing they'll figure out a lot about that this summer. The Spurs are playing in the summer league in Vegas, which is now NBA sanctioned and has 20 teams playing. So I'm guessing after that, they'll know if he's worth keeping around. As far as I know, at this point, his contract is not guaranteed for next season.

I haven't seen enough of him to know. I know he has worked hard, but his on the court time wasn't enough to judge.

[DarrinS]

Barry's a great guy, but I think I could go on living <sniff> <sniff> without him.

[Kori Ellis]

I'd like to keep Tony, Finley, Manu, Bowen, Duncan, and Oberto only. I think everyone else is expendable. I know Butler is a project, but I am not interested in him and I don't believe the Spurs are either...of course they aren't going to publically dog Butler b/c they may have some trade value, but the guy is a fat pig who will never be in shape.

:lol He's already in shape.

[ChumpDumper]

Who's the SF? Suggestions? Outside of the usual suspect Jumaine Jones, all the free agents are NBA or D-League projects -- which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I don't know who's on the block at this point.

Just a cursory look at the mocks shows me no SF over 6'8" is available outside of the lottery, and this is before the official measurements. It's one of the reasons I'd consider taking a flyer on Sun Yue at #58.


As for backup PG...

I am still on the fence about Vaughn...the man is hitting his open shots, and he's hitting them in pivotal moments of the game, he hustles...

I don't really see anyone better out there that could be easily had...I'm ok with Vaughn if we use our first rounder on a PG and trade Beno.

[nkdlunch]

With how well Fabricio Oberto has played, Horry saying he wants another year.

Does that change your mind on wanting Mahinmi, Scola, to be brought over?

QUESTION

How about we wait till season is over? If we don't win a championship, we are considered failures and major changes need to happen.

If we win a championship things are different.

everything depends on how season end.

[whottt]

Outside of the usual suspect Jumaine Jones, all the free agents are NBA or D-League projects -- which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I don't know who's on the block at this point.

.

Both the Bulls and the Warriors are going to have someone on the block IMO.

The Bulls have too...they actually have chemistry issues due to their glut at SF(Kryhapa isn't happy and has made no secret of it).

[mavsfan1000]

Vaughn has been solid for San Antonio. His defense is great and he can make the open shots. Much needed against the great point guards in the league. Billups, Nash, Harris, and etc.

[mardigan]

Vaughn has been solid for San Antonio. His defense is great and he can make the open shots. Much needed against the great point guards in the league. Billups, Nash, Harris, and etc.
Vaughn has had his moments, but the guy is a huge liability on offense, cant hit jumpers consistently, and his d isnt that great. He will be gone and Im hoping the SPurs look to spend half the MLE on a guy like Atkins, Knight, or even Steve Blake

[ChumpDumper]

Both the Bulls and the Warriors are going to have someone on the block IMO.

The Bulls have too...they actually have chemistry issues due to their glut at SF(Kryhapa isn't happy and has made no secret of it).I'd be fine with that. Your talk about the logjam at our swing spots reminds me that a tall SF would really have to be, well, better than one of Bowen/Finley/Manu to get appreciable minutes next year. Given the learning curve for the average new Spur, it might be difficult to expect a Hedo-type stepping right in next season if those three are still here, even moreso if Barry is here too.

[velik_m]

Get Slokar. Slokar > Bonner.

[BradLohaus]

Beno, Barry, Elson/Butler for Ron Artest :drunk :downspin:

[Mr. Body]

No telling what the SF solution is. To get an obvious solution, the Spurs will have to trade up in the draft, but even then only Thaddeus Young would be at the extend of their range. Dominic McGuire has the size and athleticism they need and might be in the early 2nd round and will be worth a shot, but the Spurs might as soon pass him by.

If they keep their 1st rounder, I think Gabe Pruitt might still be around, who is a combo guard/point guard. That might as well be the priority in the draft, unless a talented swingman like Rudy Fernandez or Brandon Rush drops a few picks to them.

It looks like Horry is back. Oberto has earned his stripes, but Elson might get shopped, but more than likely he'll stay. I don't know how much roster change will happen. There will have to be a dicision made whether the end of the bench will be blown up or kept around. Barry will be shopped, I think Udrih will be traded away for another negligible player. Whether Butler or White is worth a damn is uncertain at this point, so they'll be kept. I can't imagine the Spurs giving them up - they're a more 'a bird in the hand' team no matter how pretty the birds in the bush.

[timvp]

Vaughn has been solid for San Antonio. His defense is great and he can make the open shots. Much needed against the great point guards in the league. Billups, Nash, Harris, and etc.

That was the case in the regular season. In the post season he's sucked and his defense has been horrible. The next time he stays in front of a driving player will be the first time in the playoffs. I don't know if he's hurt or he just gets slower in the playoffs, but the Spurs have to at least bring in a young PG in the draft.

The Spurs have to either dedicate themselves to James White or bring in another young swingman. The perimeter players are too old to try to go through another year with them as is.

:lol @ whottt saying Elson is a bargain. Would you rather have Elson with $6M guaranteed or someone like Justin Williams for less than 20 times that? Elson hasn't done much more than a bigman out of the D-League could do. I would advocate trading him, but unless you throw in draft picks, no one is going to take him.

I'd bring over Mahinmi and probably pick between Scola and Bonner, whichever is cheaper. The mistake I worry the Spurs doing is trading Butler before they ever give him a chance.

[ChumpDumper]

That would be nice if McGuire is still around at 28; if not one of those tall young point guards might be a good choice. Of course that Finnish kid would be left overseas.

[texasqb2]

:lol He's already in shape.

Since when...have you seen him on the sidelines? If he is in shape, can we wait this long every year for him to get there? Everyone was expecting him to come into training camp and win the starting job eventually. The guy does not take basketball serious enough and he will never crack our rotation...I want guys for the next 3 years that will be able to our 3 headed monster win more championships while they can.

[Mr. Body]

I really think McGuire will still be there. He may blow up in the camps, though. Same with Pruitt: he may be there. Koponen may be there.

Spurs can get something with the 28 that is decent, but it depends what shakes out.

[texasqb2]

If they keep their 1st rounder, I think Gabe Pruitt might still be around, who is a combo guard/point guard. That might as well be the priority in the draft, unless a talented swingman like Rudy Fernandez or Brandon Rush drops a few picks to them.

Ford's mock has us taking Pruitt and Fernandez going the pick after us

[Mr. Body]

Ford's mock has us taking Pruitt and Fernandez going the pick after us

yeah, it's not certain who will be there, but if we keep the pick, we'll get somebody pretty good, be it Byars, Rush, Fernandez, McGuire, Pruitt, etc. In my mock I have us taking Pruitt (in part because Detroit takes Stuckey in the mid-round).

[ChumpDumper]

I do agree that Elson is a relative bargain for what he is doing as a vet big man. Sure he is replaceable, but the corporate knowledge seemed to be seeping at the end of the regular season. If the staff thinks he isn't going to get any better in the defense, he can be dealt.

[timvp]

I do agree that Elson is a relative bargain for what he is doing as a vet big man. Sure he is replaceable, but the corporate knowledge seemed to be seeping at the end of the regular season. If the staff thinks he isn't going to get any better in the defense, he can be dealt.

If the Spurs would have brought in a younger big able to play right away for cheap, I'd think the same corporate knowledge would be there by now. But yeah, as it is, Elson has more value on the team going forward than in a trade since you'd be lucky to get more than a second round pick for him.

[Kori Ellis]

Since when...have you seen him on the sidelines? If he is in shape, can we wait this long every year for him to get there? Everyone was expecting him to come into training camp and win the starting job eventually. The guy does not take basketball serious enough and he will never crack our rotation...I want guys for the next 3 years that will be able to our 3 headed monster win more championships while they can.

He lost 25-30 pounds in his first four months when he arrived here. The Spurs always considered him a cheap project. Fans expected him to win the starting job.

I'm not saying that the Spurs are even going to keep him. But he's not the fat ass that you made him out to be in your original post.

[ChumpDumper]

If the Spurs would have brought in a younger big able to play right away for cheap, I'd think the same corporate knowledge would be there by now.Depends on the player, but I get your point.
But yeah, as it is, Elson has more value on the team going forward than in a trade since you'd be lucky to get more than a second round pick for him.Eh, if it's a luxury tax issue, you might pull the trigger -- in that case bring in Ian/2nd rounder/D-Leaguer. Elson might be one of the most moveable deals for an injury exception next year that I could think of.

[J.T.]

The hard thing about Butler and James White is that they didn't get much PT this year, so we don't know what we're giving up if we trade any of them. But I think there are other players on the roster right now who are higher than they are on the trade bait foot chain, so I doubt they'll be traded this offseason. Beno, Ely and Barry are probably more likely to go. I doubt Beno stays after being in the doghouse for pretty much the entire season. His bags have probably been packed since December.

[picnroll]

1. Either trade Scola for a need or higher draft pick or try to bring him over on a reasonable contract that gives the Spurs Bird rights.

2. Finally solve the backup PG problem. Ideally get a combo guard with the ability to defend the larger, stronger PGs, good half-court distributor and has a good outside shot. This kid Koponen sounds interesting. He, on paper, has the above tools, and one comment made about him form the Nike Summit was he's fearless setting picks in the John Stockton mode. He's 6'5" and maybe still gorwing a bit. If he stays in the draft something is up with somebody about a commitment.

3. Get that long needed long SF. Have to be by trade or with MLE because nobody will come in the draft at that position of immediatel help, particularly where the Spurs can draft from.

4. Hope something comes from White, Butler or be more effective/aggressive picking up SL talent than they've been in the past.

[timvp]

I've said all along that point guard should be the position of emphasis in the draft. It's the easiest position to draft and a lot of times, good point guard prospects drop to the end of the first round.

I don't trust the Spurs' scouts enough to draft an American swingman or bigman in the draft. Stick to a domestic point guard and play him in summer league to start the developmental process.

[thousandth]

Ford's mock has us taking Pruitt and Fernandez going the pick after us

Rudy Fernandez? the spanish player? :rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

The way this draft looks to be shaping up, we should pick up a point guard with our first rounder (unless McGuire falls to us), a big man with #33 and best available talent at #58.

Or just trade them all for nothing.

[whottt]

I'm not sold on the PG in the draft idea...

PG is the hardest position to learn, takes the longest to learn, and what happened with Beno will most likely happen again...

You can get pissed off at a young player for losing confidence...but that isn't going to make them confident...neither is benching them.

I prefer vet back up PG and use this deep draft to try and get the SF(SF are usually the best all around athletes and that is the key to the position)...to me that's a need more easily filled in the draft. And it's also an easier position for a young player to master. PG is the toughest.

I mean I've seen a lot of SF we could have drafted or signed undrafted...I haven't seen many PG's we missed on.

And I do think if the Spurs weren't a title contender Beno would be better developed...Pop can't waste the minutes...

Parker got into the lineup because we literally had no alternative true PG, and because he was extremely talented. We probably aren't going to get another Parker...and if we do, he won't get the time and minutes to develop like Parker...

And you know, it's taken Tony a long time and he's still not quite got it mastered yet. How can we excpect some rookie to contribute?

[mardigan]

The way this draft looks to be shaping up, we should pick up a point guard with our first rounder (unless McGuire falls to us), a big man with #33 and best available talent at #58.

Or just trade them all for nothing.
Would you be opposed to the idea of taking a combo guard? A guy like Belinelli is projected around late 1st, and coulde handle minutes at the point and sg. Or do you think it has to be a fulltime backup point?

[timvp]

Without caring who will drop where, I think it makes the most financial sense to pick a foreign prospect at 28 who can be stashed and a point guard ready to compete for a backup job at 33.

It's always easier to bring over a first round pick than a second round pick, as the Spurs have found out recently. Picking a point guard at 33 gives the Spurs a chance to make sure he's actually better than Beno before giving him a multi-year contract. At 58, it'd be nice to find another sucker team like the Bucks last year who get desperate to jump back into the action and rip them off.

:smokin

[ChumpDumper]

I'll wait for the draft camp to see how tall these SFs really are. We don't need to fuck around with anyone much under 6'9" unless they have the wingspan or blocking ability to make up for it like McGuire seems to have.

[CaptainLate]

I think it's still important for this team to start incorporating some youth into its rotation. Likewise, the 800 pound gorilla in the room is that the Spurs never did have to deal with Nowitzki in these playoffs. If the Spurs are to repeat a long playoff run in 2007-08, they need youth, they need some additional length on the wings, and they need to find guys who can consistently rebound the basketball.

With the Blazers and Sonics improving, we definitely need youth...and someone who can stay with Stoudemire. And, we know he can jump, but let's find out if James White is the second coming of BBowen, but a SF who can score, too. :elephant Butler and Ely and two others we need to find out if they are Spurs material or not. If not, then package them up.

[Mr. Body]

The way this draft looks to be shaping up, we should pick up a point guard with our first rounder (unless McGuire falls to us), a big man with #33 and best available talent at #58.

Or just trade them all for nothing.

Agree with all, but feel someone will slip to #33. Just running mock drafts, it seems Almond, Byars, or somebody inevitably falls thru. If someone is right above that Koponen has a guarantee he may stick. He's an intriguing prospect, then there's Pruitt, then there's IMO a fall off before you hit Aaron Brooks, Dominic James, Bobby Brown and the rest.

[whottt]

I'd be fine with that. Your talk about the logjam at our swing spots reminds me that a tall SF would really have to be, well, better than one of Bowen/Finley/Manu to get appreciable minutes next year. Given the learning curve for the average new Spur, it might be difficult to expect a Hedo-type stepping right in next season if those three are still here, even moreso if Barry is here too.


Any of the ones Chicago has(and most of the ones the Warriors have) would get PT on this team. Kryhapa has Pop guy written all over him. He's just got the most talented battery of SF in the NBA in front of him...

[ChumpDumper]

I like the idea of stashing the Finnish kid at 28, but I don't think anyone is realistically going to compete for backup point at #33. Might as well give Beno another shot in that case.

[ChumpDumper]

Any of the ones Chicago has(and most of the ones the Warriors have) would get PT on this team. Kryhapa has Pop guy written all over him. He's just got the most talented battery of SF in the NBA in front of him...I just wasn't overly impressed with him when he had more PT in Portland, but if he doesn't cost us much, it couldn't hurt.

[picnroll]

I'm not sold on the PG in the draft idea...

PG is the hardest position to learn, takes the longest to learn, and what happened with Beno will most likely happen again...

You can get pissed off at a young player for losing confidence...but that isn't going to make them confident...neither is benching them.

I prefer vet back up PG and use this deep draft to try and get the SF(SF are usually the best all around athletes and that is the key to the position)...to me that's a need more easily filled in the draft. And it's also an easier position for a young player to master. PG is the toughest.


First round PGs taken after 20th pick

2006
Mardy Collins
Jordan Farmar
Sergio Rodriquez
Marcus Williams

2005
Jarrett Jack
Nate Robinson

2004
Delonte West
Jameer Nelson
Sasha Vujacic
Beno Udrih

I think it's pretty safe to say that this is undoubtedly the best yield of players for a position when drafting after 20 and most were contributing payers year one. Only the Lakers and Spurs managed to screw it up. Swings and bigs are far more treacherous. Spurs need a PG, safest best is to go for the best available in the draft.

[timvp]

I'm not sold on the PG in the draft idea...

PG is the hardest position to learn, takes the longest to learn, and what happened with Beno will most likely happen again...

You can get pissed off at a young player for losing confidence...but that isn't going to make them confident...neither is benching them.

I prefer vet back up PG and use this deep draft to try and get the SF(SF are usually the best all around athletes and that is the key to the position)...to me that's a need more easily filled in the draft. And it's also an easier position for a young player to master. PG is the toughest.

I mean I've seen a lot of SF we could have drafted or signed undrafted...I haven't seen many PG's we missed on.

And I do think if the Spurs weren't a title contender Beno would be better developed...Pop can't waste the minutes...

Parker got into the lineup because we literally had no alternative true PG, and because he was extremely talented. We probably aren't going to get another Parker...and if we do, he won't get the time and minutes to develop like Parker...

And you know, it's taken Tony a long time and he's still not quite got it mastered yet. How can we excpect some rookie to contribute?

I would agree with that, but this is the Spurs. Look at the domestic swingmen they've drafted over the years. Sato, Carrawell and Bracey ... none of them even lasted the whole year.

The Spurs almost traded for players like Jameer Nelson and Speedy Claxton in the draft, so we know they can usually pin point a pretty good point guard. When is the last time they even thought about drafting a domestic wing that turned out to be anything? Remember, they were crushed when Ndudi Ebi was taken before they got a hold of him :lol

[Mr. Body]

pic, I wouldn't say the Lakers and Spurs screwed it up. Farmar is a rookie, after all, and could turn out. Beno is still a good player that has only busted with us - he could pan out somewhere else.

Whoops... you meant Vujacic in LAL. Yeah, those Slovenians... :devil

[Mr. Body]

I would agree with that, but this is the Spurs. Look at the domestic swingmen they've drafted over the years. Sato, Carrawell and Bracey ... none of them even lasted the whole year.

The Spurs almost traded for players like Jameer Nelson and Speedy Claxton in the draft, so we know they can usually pin point a pretty good point guard. When is the last time they even thought about drafting a domestic wing that turned out to be anything? Remember, they were crushed when Ndudi Ebi was taken before they got a hold of him :lol

Some good points. Weren't they also after Jarrett Jack?

[timvp]

First round PGs taken after 20th pick

2006
Mardy Collins
Jordan Farmar
Sergio Rodriquez
Marcus Williams

2005
Jarrett Jack
Nate Robinson

2004
Delonte West
Jameer Nelson
Sasha Vujacic
Beno Udrih

I think it's pretty safe to say that this is undoubtedly the best yield of players for a position when drafting after 20 and most were contributing payers year one. Only the Lakers and Spurs managed to screw it up. Swings and bigs are far more treacherous. Spurs need a PG, safest best is to go for the best available in the draft.

Yep. You can find a backup quality point guard at around 28 and 33. Or at least a player who can push Jacque Vaughn next year.

I've seen nothing out of the Spurs that tells me they can draft an American small forward. I'm not sure they have the confidence in doing so with a first round pick. Finding a scrub to slightly above scrub point guard isn't as difficult.

[timvp]

Some good points. Weren't they also after Jarrett Jack?

Yeah, I knew I was forgetting somebody. Good memory.

[picnroll]

Spurs drafted Manu, maybe the only good swingman they've drafted since they had the three pick and got Elliott. And even then they wanted Ferry.

[whottt]

I would agree with that, but this is the Spurs. Look at the domestic swingmen they've drafted over the years. Sato, Carrawell and Bracey ... none of them even lasted the whole year.

The Spurs almost traded for players like Jameer Nelson and Speedy Claxton in the draft, so we know they can usually pin point a pretty good point guard. When is the last time they even thought about drafting a domestic wing that turned out to be anything? Remember, they were crushed when Ndudi Ebi was taken before they got a hold of him :lol



I think they've been inclined to take some true SF's, none of which those guys you mentioned are...they just haven't done it. They did want Howard right?


To me this is the era of the SF...every team in the NBA seems to have mutiple good ones, except us...if you can do it by trade or FA...more power to you, at the same time, I think a SF from this era has a better chance of being a good pick than a PG...

Have there been more SF's or PG's slip through the cracks in recent years?

I think SF has the lead there.

If they are going Euro they probably should take a PG...since there seems to be more successful European PG's than SF's...

[ChumpDumper]

Why do I get the sinking feeling we're going to sign Smush Parker this summer?

[ploto]

As to Oberto-- how well would he have to play in these playoffs for him to decide to bypass that player option of $2.5M and look for a better multi-year deal elsewhere? Someone in this thread claimed Elson was a bargain at $3M.

[timvp]

Spurs drafted Manu, maybe the only good swingman they've drafted since they had the three pick and got Elliott. And even then they wanted Ferry.

Well, international players are different. I think they can draft international players no matter the position. However, the rest of the league has caught up to them in international scouting, so the days of them pulling an unknown foreigner out of their hat is probably over.

The best hope is to get one of those four year point guards who nobody else wants to draft because of "limited upside" and get a player who can push Vaughn for playing time next year. Maybe the Spurs will shock me and go with a swingman, but I won't hold my breath.

[picnroll]

I think they've been inclined to take some true SF's, none of which those guys you mentioned are...they just haven't done it. They did want Howard right?


To me this is the era of the SF...every team in the NBA seems to have mutiple good ones, except us...if you can do it by trade or FA...more power to you, at the same time, I think a SF from this era has a better chance of being a good pick than a PG...

Have there been more SF's or PG's slip through the cracks in recent years?

I think SF has the lead there.

If they are going Euro they probably should take a PG...since there seems to be more successful European PG's than SF's...
Actually sparse pickings on SF after 20. They go earlier and many bust.

2006
Balkman
Boone

2005
Kleiza (SF/PF)

2004
Khryapa


btw I missed Rhondo last year as a post 20 PG.
2003
Outlaw (years in developing)
Delfino (years in getting on the floor)
Ebi

[ChumpDumper]

As to Oberto-- how well would he have to play in these playoffs for him to decide to bypass that player option of $2.5M and look for a better multi-year deal elsewhere? Someone in this thread claimed Elson was a bargain at $3M.Fair question, but I don't think his scoring surge against Utah has taken on a full Croshere quality just yet. If he performs like this against Detroit (provided the Spurs make it to the finals), Oberto might have cause to opt out.

[picnroll]

As to Oberto-- how well would he have to play in these playoffs for him to decide to bypass that player option of $2.5M and look for a better multi-year deal elsewhere? Someone in this thread claimed Elson was a bargain at $3M.
Toronto's over the cap they can't get Obeto even if they want him.

[whottt]

You left out Travor Ariza...Matt Barnes.

Not all of those PG's were available to us...howmany of those SF were?

counting from 20 on doesn't help us much...we haven't picked better than like 27th in 7 or 8 years.


I don't consider Delfino a true SF anyway...

I am not sure Balkman is going to suck, I don't know for sure that Mardy Collins is a better PG than he is a SF...I'd take him on this team. ---edit NM, I see the point you were making with them.

[Big P]

If the Spurs cant get Nocioni or Pietrus, I would like to see them go after Khrypa from the Bulls(IMO very possible a deal could get done) or if we really wanted to take a chance on a lanky SF type, I say try to sign Koroloev for the LLE. The Clipps didn't pick up his rookie contract & he will be an unrestricted FA this summer. He was the 12th pick a couple of drafts ago & I think he has alot of talent & potential. He is just begging to get on a team like the Spurs where the coaches could work with him. IMO its a little risk, high reward type deal. He's 6'9, 203 lbs so he fills the tall-long SF we've been talking about. Hoopshype says he is "a good athelete with great skills for his age & he's a verstile player." Sounds like the perfect fit.

[picnroll]

Well, international players are different. I think they can draft international players no matter the position. However, the rest of the league has caught up to them in international scouting, so the days of them pulling an unknown foreigner out of their hat is probably over.

The best hope is to get one of those four year point guards who nobody else wants to draft because of "limited upside" and get a player who can push Vaughn for playing time next year. Maybe the Spurs will shock me and go with a swingman, but I won't hold my breath.
Not making a point they showed incredible perception. Like Pop said if they were that smart they would have picked Manu at 40 instead of Giracek. Sanikidze may be proof they've lost or didn't have that eye to egin with.

[timvp]

I think they've been inclined to take some true SF's, none of which those guys you mentioned are...they just haven't done it. They did want Howard right?

Not enough to draft them. After last draft, Buford said that Shannon Brown and Maurice Ager were the two sleepers of the late late first round area. That didn't exactly give me more hope.

I can't even remember a small forward the Spurs even reportedly tried to move up to get that ever lasted more than a season in the NBA.

[picnroll]

You left out Travor Ariza...Matt Barnes.

Not all of those PG's were available to us...howmany of those SF were?

counting from 20 on doesn't help us much...we haven't picked better than like 27th in 7 or 8 years.


I don't consider Delfino a true SF anyway...

I am not sure Balkman is going to suck, I don't know for sure that Mardy Collins is a better PG than he is a SF...I'd take him on this team. ---edit NM, I see the point you were making with them.
2nd rounders.

Some of those are 27+. We can easily trade up a little in all likelihood by packaging 28 + 33 if not Scola, if need be.

Balkman looks good. Just look at the toatl number of good SFs out of the last 4 drafts compared to PG in the last three not to mention rate of success.

[whottt]

A lot Euro's are long on talent and short on desire...therein lies the problem(I personally think a lot of them like to hit the bars after games and on days off, and there lack of desire has a lot to do with being hungover).

Beno is talented. Rasho is talented. Sanikidze, from everything I have heard, is extremely talented...

.

[SilverPlayer]

To me James White is probably better than anyone we could draft as a SF for our pick, so going for a PG seems like the wiser choice.

Give James White a year, before we look for another project.

[picnroll]

Make an MLE stab at Outlaw. He's better than any SF we can get at 20+.

[whottt]

James White is not a long SF.

He's going to get raped by LeBron and Melo and all the primo SF of this era like our other 2 guards do...

[ploto]

Fair question...
:)

[whottt]

Not enough to draft them. After last draft, Buford said that Shannon Brown and Maurice Ager were the two sleepers of the late late first round area. That didn't exactly give me more hope.

I can't even remember a small forward the Spurs even reportedly tried to move up to get that ever lasted more than a season in the NBA.



Well, when you guys start putting it like that....


Still, Josh Howard....

If you give me a choice of him or any of those PG's mentioned...

[ducks]

James White is not a long SF.

He's going to get raped by LeBron and Melo and all the primo SF of this era like our other 2 guards do...
anyone will with the refs and stern these days by james

[timvp]

Well, when you guys start putting it like that....


Still, Josh Howard....

If you give me a choice of him or any of those PG's mentioned...

Perhaps the Spurs should hand over the draft to Duncan and let him take whoever he wants. He wanted Howard and Darius Songaila in recent years.

:smokin

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Is Mickael Pietrus still an option?

[ChumpDumper]

Has he grown three inches since the 2nd round?

[picnroll]

Perhaps the Spurs should hand over the draft to Duncan and let him take whoever he wants. He wanted Howard and Darius Songaila in recent years.

:smokin
Guess that means the Spurs will be drafting Kyle Visser this year.

[T Park]

The Bowen replacement would be adressed in signing Pietrus IMO.


Nocioni COULD be pryed from Chicago if Barry, Scola, the first pick were offered.

[SilverPlayer]

James White is not a long SF.

He's going to get raped by LeBron and Melo and all the primo SF of this era like our other 2 guards do...


True, but he can fill in as a reserve, when they go out at least for next year, making the need to replace Bowen just a little less urgent. The PG position is our most urgent fill next year.

If we can trade for Nocioni or Pietrius then go for that, but you aren't going to top James Whites upside at that point in the draft.

[SilverPlayer]

Agh I don't know. In this case I would take anyone who has the talent to be a rotational player. PG or SF, it doesn't matter so long as they aren't named Beno, and they can get some PT.

[Bruno]

So Spurs priority should be to find a player to play the 10 mpg available at backup PG while they only have Ginobili and an average prospect with White as long term solution at SG/SF (96 mpg) ?

I will be pissed if Spurs start next season with only Manu and White as below 34 years old SG/SF.
I have nothing against drafting a PG with either the 28th or 33rd if they use the other on a SF or if they have a plan to get a young SF via FA or trade.

[timvp]

I have nothing against drafting a PG with either the 28th or 33rd if they use the other on a SF or if they have a plan to get a young SF via FA or trade.

Exactly.

And Andres Nocioni's value will never be lower . . . :hat

[FromWayDowntown]

Exactly.

And Andres Nocioni's value will never be lower . . . :hat

To me, Nocioni seems to be an absolute no-brainer if there's any way to acquire him. He's young, but not too young. He's not incredibly long, but he does other things that the Spurs need -- he's tough, he can defend, he's a decent rebounder, he can stroke a 3, and he isn't a volume shooter.

I could see that the Spurs' summer plans might start right there, but since the Bulls have the right to match, could the Spurs put together a package attractive enough to get the Bulls to work some sort of deal to send Nocioni to San Antonio? Unless the Bulls really like Scola, I'm not sure what the Spurs can move that would fit a Bulls need.

[whottt]

Perhaps the Spurs should hand over the draft to Duncan and let him take whoever he wants. He wanted Howard and Darius Songaila in recent years.

:smokin



He also was the one that reccomended signing Jack...right?

He's also the one that called for Kerr in the 03 WCF *

*contested by TimVP


I think you are right..maybe they should lo.

[v2freak]

I say, keep Finley and Barry. Barry can play 1-3 and Finley can play 2/3

[ClingingMars]

Being a mad UVA BBall fan this year, if we need youth at the SG position, we might want to consider J.R. Reynolds when the draft comes around.

-Mars

[ploto]

Part of the question remains-- will the Spurs actually play any of these young guys that they get. It was discussed during the game tonight how Flip realized he had to develop some of his young guys and get them playing time this year- even if that meant fewer regular season wins.

[ChumpDumper]

Part of the question remains-- will the Spurs actually play any of these young guys that they get. It was discussed during the game tonight how Flip realized he had to develop some of his young guys and get them playing time this year- even if that meant fewer regular season wins.I don't know exactly how many more games Detroit realistically could have won this year. With first or second year players the D-League is now a viable option though. When you add the D-League and NBA contests for each, these players end up with this kind of first year pro experience:

Amir Johnson - 30 games, 29.9 mpg

Will Blalock - 28 games, 19 mpg

James White - 21 games, 31.1 mpg

Not that bad for rookies on championship caliber teams.

I think with Gervin running the show down in McAllen, there could be a much closer relationship between the Spurs and their D-League affiliate, so that could increase the number of send downs in the future. And the expansion of the D-League could lead to more minutes for any player that is sent down.

Provided we actually sign any rookies.....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Before everyone's ready to boot Elson out the door, you might want to go check out his rebounding totals against our probable Finals opponent (if we get there) - the Detroit Pistons.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm actually ok with Elson's rebounding overall. I don't see how he could grab that many more in the time he plays. He just needs to get better in the defense.

[BigBeezie]

Regardless of wins or losses:

Keep your core guys and leadership: Duncan, Manu, Parker, Finley, Oberto and of course Bowen. I would also Keep Vaughn, Horry and Elson as backups.

I would shop the following: Beno, Barry and Butler.

Sign the following: another PG to hopefully trump Vaughn. Try to sing Outlaw from Portland as he would make a decent SF to backup Bruce. Bring over Scola to help out Tim, but plan for using Scola. Not this crap where when Tim is out, we only use Tony or Manu for points. That's just stupid.

I think we also need to focus on youth. We need to start using younger players, so they're ready when their time comes up.

I guess we can keep Bonner too. He seems like a decent guy.