Free Agent: Andres Nocioni

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_andres_nocioni.jpg

Andres Nocioni | F
Born: Nov 30, 1979
Height: 6-7 / 2,01
Weight: 225 lbs. / 102,1 kg.
From : Argentina
Years Pro: 2

Info (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andres_nocioni/index.html)

The obvious target in free agency for the Spurs this offseason. His price should be in the MLE range. Fits the perfect Spur proflie and the Spurs have a couple of guys to recruit him on the team. The catch is he's a restricted free agent. Perhaps the Bulls are going to add up the cost of retaining all of their young talent and decide that they can afford to let him go. If not, maybe the Spurs could work out a trade for him. Sign him and the offseason's almost complete, save for making Jacque Vaughn disappear and Beno's testosterone injections.

[ClingingMars]

don't we need a center more than a backup to duncan? unless he primarily plays SF (i know little about East teams), in which his offense would be useful when bowen gets a rest.

[spursfaninla]

Nocioni would be a great, balanced young guy to in. He rebounds, he scores, and he can defend.

and our greatest need is a long sf, and he is def. a sf.

I'm feeling ok with Oberto as our center. We have the Butler project, we have Elson as a backup if needed. We have 2 or 3 foreign guys as front court possibilities (scola, jak, Mimi in the future). Anyway, we don't need scoring out of our center much honestly.

And no doubt he would start. Bowen is a great, great defender, but he is too "one way" for us any longer I fear. He is just getting too old to keep it up reliably. 36? Come on!

[FromWayDowntown]

I've said elsewhere that if Nocioni is available to the Spurs, he strikes me as a no-brainer for a lot of different reasons. I suspect it might take a trade to pry him away from Chicago, though, and I doubt that the Spurs have the chips right now to make that deal.

[El_Mago]

Andres is the ideal piece.

He can score from the perimeter, play hard nose D, pass the ball well, rebound, and do the little things.

The one thing any team chasing him has working on their side is that Chicago has a lot of pieces at the SF. Yet, if they pull the trigger on a big trade, they might end up keeping him. Paxson has stated he wants to keep Andres, but who knows.

[ClingingMars]

im not sold on elson yet, he makes too many mental mistakes

but yes, we need some consistent more than wide open shots offense from the SF position

-Mars

[K-State Spur]

don't we need a center more than a backup to duncan? unless he primarily plays SF (i know little about East teams), in which his offense would be useful when bowen gets a rest.

Noccioni would be great as a 3/4. He moves (and shoots) well enough to play the 3 in a big line-up, and can play the 4 against small ball teams.

With all these contracts coming up within the next couple of years and the bulls not having the foresight to move a couple of these young guys for post players, I don't see how they are going to keep everybody. And you'd have to think the Andres might be one of the pieces they are less likely to keep.

[El_Mago]

If Andres were to land in SA next season, I would like to see him come off the bench.

I feel he brings good energy and hustle, which is a much needed spark off any bench.

Plus, he does have some firepower, so he could score off the bench too.

However, if you're going to use the MLE on Andres, which he will probably ask for, you can pretty much say goodbye to Scola for next season.

[DDS4]

He'd be great to have, but IMO, we have a surplus at the 2 and 3 positions. Maybe a replacement if Fin decides to leave the Spurs.

Backup 1, 4, and 5 would be higher priority me thinks.

[FromWayDowntown]

Noccioni would be great as a 3/4. He moves (and shoots) well enough to play the 3 in a big line-up, and can play the 4 against small ball teams.

With all these contracts coming up within the next couple of years and the bulls not having the foresight to move a couple of these young guys for post players, I don't see how they are going to keep everybody. And you'd have to think the Andres might be one of the pieces they are less likely to keep.

I looked at their salary numbers and it's not as bad as I thought.

They've already re-signed Hinrich for the long-term and got favorable rates on him in the late years of his deal. They have to extend Deng, who'll probably command something close to the max, and Gordon, who will cost something approximating Hinrich's money. I guess they'll also have to figure out whether they want to keep Duhon around and how much he'll cost them. They have the albatross of Ben Wallace's deal around their necks for a few more years as well.

But with all of that said, they've basically got the bulk of their rotation set (Wallace, Gordon, Thomas, Hinrich, Duhon, Deng, Sefolosha) for next year and they're still under the cap. Of their main guys, they would need to re-sign Nocioni and P.J. Brown to keep their roster together. For a year, at least, that seems feasible.

Personally, I would think that Paxson will take a longer view of things and that he'll realize the need to be wise with his money. That might be enough to make Nocioni available.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well, we've got a couple of draft picks to work with that could be enticing to the Bulls, along with an expiring contract after next season of 5.6 million for Barry, and we could even throw in the rights to Scola. It would take a lot to get him.

[ChumpDumper]

It's tough to see Chicago's finding it necessary to deal Nocioni this summer. They have no cap troubles at all and can fill their major need -- post scoring -- with Isiah's first round draft pick.

We might be able to pick up a disgruntled Khryapa, but Andres is a reach.

[ducks]

why would bulls help the champs out?

[timvp]

The thing that gives me hope is that Nocioni didn't play much in the playoffs. And when he did play, he wasn't playing that well. That should lower his value.

With Deng becoming a star, Thabo and Tyrus looking better and better and a bigman coming in the draft, they probably have enough depth.

If I had to guess, I'd say they sign and trade Nocioni, not because they have to financially, but because it'll open up more playing time for players who can potentially be even better.

But unless they are in love with Scola, I don't think it'll end up being the Spurs they sign and trade him to.

[ducks]

Nocioni can help himself by saying he wants to play with his fellow countrymen manu and oberto and if not he will demand out
then bulls would have to work with the spurs

[ChumpDumper]

Unless Thabo becomes an NBA scoring threat, I don't see Nocioni's being dealt. There's just no reason to let him go if the money is right.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I say lets go for broke and sign the entire Argentina national team.

[FromWayDowntown]

If he wants to come to SA, absent a deal, the best he can get is the MLE, which Chicago can match without breaking a sweat, I'd think.

Nocioni can say whatever he wishes about where he wants to play, but unless the Bulls either decide to let him go without matching or get what they want from the Spurs, Nocioni's fate in the NBA is pretty much left to the whim of the Bulls.

[chaco]

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4387/argentinabasquet2copiapu9.jpg

[Big P]

1. In order for us to get him he would have to S&T for him, Chicago will match a MLE offer.

2. One thing going for us is that Chicago is in desperate need of a low post scorer. They dont need him to be a superstar, just a solid big man. We have Scola who fits that description perfectly. Chicago could bring him over on a cheapish contract 3 or 4 years $10-12 mil( by cheap I mean cheaper than most other big men).

3 There is talk that Chicago is looking at Nick Collison from Seattle, so there is some options for them out there.

4. The S&T would have to start with Scola(centerpiece of the deal) then Barry(salary purposes) & someone else like Beno or Butler(Bulls choice) along with a draft pick. Is this too high of a price to pay is the real question.

5. Chicagos salary cap is in good shape right now. They will be able to sign Deng & Gordon to extensions. Wallace's & Hinrichs contracts are frontloaded, so they will be making less each year forward. They will need to sign Thomas & Sefolosha to extensions in a couple of years & possibly signing Nocioni to a long term deal could affect those plans, but that is a couple of years away & if they wanted to sign Noc now, they could always trade him in a year or two.

6. Bottom line is, alot of things will have to go in our favor to make this deal a reality. Chicago is going to have to be convinced that Scola will be able to play in the NBA next year & the Spurs have to decide if this is the deal that will convince them to get rid of Scola.

I have always wanted Noc to be a Spur & he definitly fills a major need, but Scola is also a very nice player who could help us alot, unfortunately its probably going to be either Nocioni OR Scola, not both.

[gino>yourlife]

spurs = argentenian mafia

:bowthefuckdown:

[hater]

I'll take him. I'll take Scola too.

But we need a backup PG more.

[Big P]

No way we need a backup PG more than a SF to take us into the future. We can find a backup PG anywhere, resign Vaughn or sign Chcuky Atkins to a vet minimum deal & call it a day.

[hater]

We can find a backup PG anywhere,

where?

[Big P]

Wait untli the summer comes around, there will be plenty of vet PG's looking for a job & we wont need to give up any assets to get them, just like how we signed Vaughn.

[hater]

Vaughn sucks, he is not even a third string PG.

good solid PGs are hard to come by. my point is that they should make it a priority to get a solid backup PG

[chaco]

I'll take him. I'll take Scola too.

But we need a backup PG more.


:lol Pablo Prigioni ? :lol

[mattyc]

Get him. He's a tremendous player.

[Big P]

OK so we agree to disagree, but I think most people have said that our biggest need is a SF to replace Bowen & Nocioni would be a perfect fit. He can defend 3's & 4's & shoot the 3. If we cant get Nocioni, I say go after Pietrus. Also Khrypa & Korolev would also be nice, but they are not the immediate answer to our SF needs.

[texasqb2]

If he wants to come to SA, absent a deal, the best he can get is the MLE, which Chicago can match without breaking a sweat, I'd think.

Nocioni can say whatever he wishes about where he wants to play, but unless the Bulls either decide to let him go without matching or get what they want from the Spurs, Nocioni's fate in the NBA is pretty much left to the whim of the Bulls.


That's not true....Nocioni controlls a lot of what he does if the Bulls don't decide to match an offer and keep him. He is not gonna do a sign and trade to a team he does not want to play for.

[El_Mago]

The thing that gives me hope is that Nocioni didn't play much in the playoffs. And when he did play, he wasn't playing that well. That should lower his value.

With Deng becoming a star, Thabo and Tyrus looking better and better and a bigman coming in the draft, they probably have enough depth.

If I had to guess, I'd say they sign and trade Nocioni, not because they have to financially, but because it'll open up more playing time for players who can potentially be even better.

But unless they are in love with Scola, I don't think it'll end up being the Spurs they sign and trade him to.

Isn't that because he was suffering for plantar faciitis. I mean, technically he had rebounded from it because he was out and about playing. But, we should all know that it nearly takes a whole off-season to rebound from it.

I too believe the Bulls sign and trade, but just not with San Antonio.

I don't believe Scola is proven enough for the Bulls.

They are not in any desperate need of any cap room flexibility, so I don't see them wanting Barry, Bonner, or any other of the Spurs.

If anything, like someone mentioned earlier, the Spurs have a better shot at Viktor K.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4387/argentinabasquet2copiapu9.jpg



pretty much





I would LOVE to see him as a Spur next season, but again knowing the Spurs history this WON'T happen

[Marcus Bryant]

Nocioni isn't old, but he's not that young. Considering that the Bulls have a wealth of talent at the 3 they might think twice about investing that heavily in him. While the Bulls have the upper hand with Nocioni's restricted free agent status, that's not as strong as it's made out to be. In any event, he's worth the Spurs tying up their MLE for 10 days or so.

[DDUBB1770]

Unless he really wants to play for the us because of championship possibilities and or Manu and Oberto being here I don’t think there is any way he would play for the MLE hes due to sign a much larger contract than that, the league has taken notice to how good this guy is.

[Marcus Bryant]

Unless he really wants to play for the us because of championship possibilities and or Manu and Oberto being here I don’t think there is any way he would play for the MLE hes due to sign a much larger contract than that, the league has taken notice to how good this guy is.

He's not going to get Ginobili $.

[Big P]

IMO Nocioni will get a contract starting somewhere between $6-7 mil per, which means we will need to S&T for him. He will definitly get more than the MLE, & i dont think its worth tying our MLE up for 10 days, the Spurs will know if he has a chance at coming here or not. The Bulls will match a MLE offer for him, thats a no brainer, if anything to trade him down the line,, but they wont let him go that easily.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

In the mean time, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[supaphly119]

dont we have a ton of cash this coming free agency? how about gerald wallace? or am i retarded? f i'm retarded please feel free to let me know.

[Leetonidas]

I personally think that Mikael Pietrus is a big possibility.

[Big P]

dont we have a ton of cash this coming free agency? how about gerald wallace? or am i retarded? f i'm retarded please feel free to let me know.

No we dont have a ton of cash, in fact we only have the MLE & the LLE to spend.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If Andres were to land in SA next season, I would like to see him come off the bench.

I feel he brings good energy and hustle, which is a much needed spark off any bench.

Plus, he does have some firepower, so he could score off the bench too.

However, if you're going to use the MLE on Andres, which he will probably ask for, you can pretty much say goodbye to Scola for next season.

Bowen can't have too much left in the tank, so a young 3 who can do it all is a priority. Butler is our 5 of the future, Oberto will do an admirable job covering until then.

To have any chance of getting him we need to DEAL SCOLA to the Bulls - they need a low-post presence! His rights, and whatever else is necessary, is the only way we have a shot at Nocioni.

[Big P]

I personally think that Mikael Pietrus is a big possibility.

I agree, I think he is the 2nd or 3rd guy the Spurs will look to add this offseason.

[Big P]

Bowen can't have too much left in the tank, so a young 3 who can do it all is a priority. Butler is our 5 of the future, Oberto will do an admirable job covering until then.

To have any chance of getting him we need to DEAL SCOLA to the Bulls - they need a low-post presence! His rights, and whatever else is necessary, is the only way we have a shot at Nocioni.

I agree with everything you say Ruff, except the part about Butler being our 5 of the future. I think the Spurs believe they made a small mistake signing this guy & will try to trade him along with Barry & Scola to possibly land someone like Nocioni. Serviceable bigmen on small cheap contracts are hard to come by.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I agree with everything you say Ruff, except the part about Butler being our 5 of the future. I think the Spurs believe they made a small mistake signing this guy & will try to trade him along with Barry & Scola to possibly land someone like Nocioni. Serviceable bigmen on small cheap contracts are hard to come by.

What makes you believe that Butler's a bust? Pop ALWAYS makes new players, especially youngsters, learn the system for a year before they play. (look at Oberto - useless last year, very useful this year) He's dropped 30-40lbs, looks svelt and strong, has breat hands around the basket, legit moves, and a nice leap for someone his size. If he has any bball IQ at all he should stick here... the only question is his bball IQ as far as I can see. Do you know something I don't? If so, do tell. :)

I think next year Butler will be the backup centre, Oberto will start and Fran will play when matchups suit (ie. not much! :lol ).

[supaphly119]

No we dont have a ton of cash, in fact we only have the MLE & the LLE to spend.

oh i thought i read somewhere we had like 20mil or something like that. bah, whatever...it was probably another team.

[Big P]

What makes you believe that Butler's a bust? Pop ALWAYS makes new players, especially youngsters, learn the system for a year before they play. (look at Oberto - useless last year, very useful this year) He's dropped 30-40lbs, looks svelt and strong, has breat hands around the basket, legit moves, and a nice leap for someone his size. If he has any bball IQ at all he should stick here... the only question is his bball IQ as far as I can see. Do you know something I don't? If so, do tell. :)

I think next year Butler will be the backup centre, Oberto will start and Fran will play when matchups suit (ie. not much! :lol ).

I mean he isn't that bad(I wouldn't quite say he's a bust), especially since he is on a very chaep & short contract. I think the Spurs were hoping that he would come along quicker, they gave him alot of time to get conditioned & get to know the system, but he hardly ever played. I think they were hoping to get more out of him, they wouldn't give him a 3 year $6.5 mil deal if they didn't think he could contribute, but he contributed very little in a whole year. I think our center situation will probably be the same, Elson & Oberto as the primary bigs, unless Ely somehow gets resigned or Butler makes huge strides this summer.

[Manudona]

Isn't that because he was suffering for plantar faciitis. I mean, technically he had rebounded from it because he was out and about playing. But, we should all know that it nearly takes a whole off-season to rebound from it.

In the letter He sent to the Argentinean team to let them know he will not be able to play for them, he mentions he suffered terrible pain, so much that after the play offs ended the Bulls's doctors decided to inmovilize his foot for 6 or 7 weeks.

[Beast Juice]

What about James White? You guys don't think he can develop into a Bruce Bowen type player? I can see him replacing Bowen or maybe even Ginobili and being great especially the way our coaching staff develops young talent.

As for Nocioni, he would be nice to have but I would rather have Scola. I heard his contract is up and he is free to sign this summer.

[Bruno]

Will Nocioni be a Spurs next year ?






http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/8ball2.gif


You can always create a scenario where Nocioni can become a Spurs : Bulls not ready to invest money in Nocioni because of Deng and Thomas, Bulls are really high on Scola and they badly need a low post presence, Nocioni liking to play in SA with a contender and Manu/Fabricio...

It remains a scenario and the most likely case is that Nocioni will re-sign with Chicago. Spurs can try to get him this summer but they need to have a solid plan B because Spurs getting Nocioni is a reach. The worst thing for Spurs will be to spend the summer to go after SF like Nocioni and Wallace, who likely won't sign with Spurs , and having nobody at the end of the offseason.

[WalterBenitez]

Chapu in Spurs' uniform would be great but let's see some questionable reasons to get him there:

1. Yeah, Skills ... he's a terrific player perhaps a kind of Bruce Bowen, hard nose defender, abilty to score from 3's area and also penetrate, could play in two positions.

2. Why Paxson would let him go, since he was considered as the soul of the team; I see Bulls offereing something big (for Chapu) in terms of contract to set him in Chicago.

3. It'll be interesting for Spurs, this year we were called a Dirty team, with Chapu we could be called a Super dirty team.

[Ocotillo]

Any chance to unload Elson if a deal were attempted with Chicago?

[mountainballer]

3. It'll be interesting for Spurs, this year we were called a Dirty team, with Chapu we could be called a Super dirty team.

no, they would call us the maniacs. :lol

I would love to see Chapu in a Spurs uniform. (I also would love to see Scola with us).
the chance might not be great, but it is also not just a pipe dream.
people shouldn't forget, that in every S&T scenario the player (his agent) has quite some influence where he want's to be traded to.
and if the numbers are ok for Nocioni (a contract starting at 6.5-7 million?), he for sure would love to play alongside Manu and Oberto, have the best shot for winning a ring, especially since he knows he will find himself in a perfect situation at his position. (different to Bulls, where he plays behind Deng and will also see Thomas to cut into his minutes).
so, if he wants to come to SA, the chances are nice.
Bulls would find a package they might like: Scola, (we should consider that he will cost about half of of what Nocioni would cost them) Butler (Bulls will likely need to repleace 3 bigs, one of our 2007 picks?, future picks?, Barry.
not that bad IMO.
and what about Finley? he wins the ring this year and finishes his career in his hometown, where they can quite use some veteran leadership?

[Kamnik]

IMO Spurs should do/trade anyone except the big three to get Nocioni

Parker,Ginobili,Nocioni,Duncan,Oberto would be sick to have as a core for the playoffs

[WalterBenitez]

IMO Spurs should do/trade anyone except the big three to get Nocioni

Parker,Ginobili,Nocioni,Duncan,Oberto would be sick to have as a core for the playoffs
:eyebrows yeah :clap send those :baby Mavs again!!!!

[EvenFlow]

Say if Durant was chosen first by Por. couldn't the Spurs just flat out sign Travis Outlaw. He's limited, but he's a 6'9 athlete.

[Darkwaters]

Say if Durant was chosen first by Por. couldn't the Spurs just flat out sign Travis Outlaw. He's limited, but he's a 6'9 athlete.

The big "IF" is the drafting of Durant. The Blazers were reported as talking to the Wizards today...presumably about Caron Butler.

Regardless, Outlaw has been discussed in length as a possible solution. In fact, he makes a lot of sense. But he'd still be a journeyman while Nocioni would be able to step in immediately and produce.

[EvenFlow]

Well if Outlaw is available then he'd be a cut rate option I wouldn't mind having. A frontline consisting of guys no smaller than 6'9 can make a world of difference on the boards. He'd be a journeyman but does have nba experience under his belt anyway, and the Spurs have won even with guys who didn't have best bball acumen (SJax-03, Nazr-05, Elson-07??).

[El_Mago]

Outlaw should be available.

I also like Udoka on the Portland team.

Khyrapa should also be available.

There are a lot of less talented wings that should be available this summer, and those are the ones I see the Spurs pursuing....not Chapu.

Quite frankly, they just can not afford Chapu straight up, and they don't have the pieces Chicago is probably looking for.

[Mr. Body]

Agree, El Mago, with all of what you said. Spurs will need to comb the dunes for a semi-precious stone. Nocioni is out of range, but an Udoka might be fine for a little while. If Portland actually takes Durant that might spring Outlaw free, but I don't think he'll be available.

[hendrix]

Seeing all the success the argentinians had in the NBA, it makes you wonder if the argentine National Team could win an NBA Title.
Some time ago (after the Olympics) when everybody was blaming the refs for the "Dream Team" debacle and only Ginobili was making noise there, NO ONE accepted the fact that USA was simply outplayed by the other teams (The excuses were that you lost because of a lack of commitment, bad calls, the weather, bla, bla...).

Now... let's say Ginobili, Nocioni, Scola, Oberto.... Herrmann off the bench... add a PG to the list (I still like Sanchez playmaking abilities, most of you don't, i know...) and we have a heck of NBA team.

[FromWayDowntown]

Now... let's say Ginobili, Nocioni, Scola, Oberto.... Herrmann off the bench... add a PG to the list (I still like Sanchez playmaking abilities, most of you don't, i know...) and we have a heck of NBA team.

Particularly if you could trade for Tim Duncan.

[hendrix]

I did not mean the Spurs... maybe you dream about it?

[FromWayDowntown]

I did not mean the Spurs... maybe you dream about it?

I didn't either. But unless you have a guy like Tim on a team like that, the chances aren't very good for winning the NBA championship. I think the ARG national team would be competitive at the high end of the NBA, but I don't think it would win titles -- unless it traded for a guy like Tim Duncan.

[coopdogg3]

I'm actually ok with just keeping Vaughn. 1 more year with our shooting-coach guru should help his J a bit more, and he's (relatively) cheap. Knows the plays, players, system, etc. His defense is fine. Unless there's a clear upgrade, I say just keep Vaughn.

[Mr. Body]

People aren't saying get rid of Vaughn. People are saying get a young prospect so Vaughn can go back to 3rd string where he belongs.

[coopdogg3]

Hater is certainly saying that we should get rid of Vaughn. Sorry, I got to the end of page 1, thought that was the end, then realized my comment was a tad off-base with where the conversation was heading.

[Mr. Body]

Oh, okay, I lost track too.

Most of the sane say we should keep Vaughn.

[coopdogg3]

Oh, okay, I lost track too.

Most of the sane say we should keep Vaughn.

Good to know I'm not the only one. :lol

[michaelwcho]

Vaughn sucks, he is not even a third string PG.

good solid PGs are hard to come by. my point is that they should make it a priority to get a solid backup PG
Not really, it's a lot easier to find a good small man than a good big man. Good small men are all over the place.

[Big P]

Portland is not going to take Durant, period.

Nocioni is probably out of our reach, our only hope is that Chicago is interested in Scola.

Oultaw is a restricted FA, IMO he is not worth the whole MLE, I would rather give the whole MLE to Pietrus, & if Outlaw is not going to get a MLE type offer, I see Portland matching any offer, just for the simple fact, they will get him on the cheap & he will be a trading asset to them in the future.

If Noc & Pietrus aren't possible, I would like to see the Spurs offer something for Duhon & Khrypa, but I would offer Scola for those two, something like Butler, Beno or a S&T of Bonner or Ely.

[violentkitten]

we give you rc you give us durant.

[Marcus Bryant]

Who would've thought NY was going to let Butler walk last summer? Sure, Nocioni is more talented, but just because a player is a restricted FA that doesn't necessarily mean his team will want him back. Nocioni holds some leverage as in any S&T he must agree to it. Chicago may opt to go with the younger swings and the Spurs can put a package of picks + Scola or whoever to satisfy their lust for future cheap talent.

[Pancake Taster]

What really breaks my heart is that Vince vaughn is such a great kisser..

[timvp]

Seeing all the success the argentinians had in the NBA, it makes you wonder if the argentine National Team could win an NBA Title.

They wouldn't be championship material but might make the playoffs.

[ducks]

They wouldn't be championship material but might make the playoffs.
in the east or west :)

[Darkwaters]

Not really, it's a lot easier to find a good small man than a good big man. Good small men are all over the place.

Well, you can't teach somebody to be 7 foot tall, thats for sure. And 6'2 guys are a whole lot more common than 6'10 guys. But I think the hardest positions to fill are as follows:

Center
Point Guard
Power Forward
Shooting Guard/Small Forward

We have a plethora of crappy centers in this league. Most of these guys are good for 6 fouls a game and thats about it. Point guards are a little more common since their height is much more easy to come by. But true floor generals are still a scarce thing. How many point guards aren't just shooting guards in miniature (see Allen Iverson, Daniel Gibson, Earl Boykins etc)? After that, PF is still a difficult spot to fill (again because height limits the pool of candidates) but far easier than the Center position. Wing players are a dime a dozen...but they are the future of this league.

[Darkwaters]

in the east or west :)

West: 6 seed
East: Conference Champs

[Big P]

Who would've thought NY was going to let Butler walk last summer? Sure, Nocioni is more talented, but just because a player is a restricted FA that doesn't necessarily mean his team will want him back. Nocioni holds some leverage as in any S&T he must agree to it. Chicago may opt to go with the younger swings and the Spurs can put a package of picks + Scola or whoever to satisfy their lust for future cheap talent.

One of the main reasons NY let him walk was because if they would have matched his $6.5 mil contract that we gave him, it would have been a $13 mil contract with the lux tax. They have Curry, Frye & Lee plus a couple of other bigs, so it was actually a no brainer to let him walk.

Nocioni is in a different situation with the Bulls. He is actaully part of their core group of players. He started for a while, but had foot issues, so he was out of the lineup, but when he was healthy he was a difference maker. The Bulls cap situation is no where near as bad as the Knicks, so they have the luxury of keeping him if they really want to.

Sure the Spurs could put together a package built around Scola, but if the Bulls are going to get rid of him, he will go to the highest bidder, ie. the team that will pay Nocioni the most. Maybe the Spurs are prepared to pay MLE type money for him, maybe a little more, but Seattle has dangled Collison(low post scorer) & if they lose Lewis, Nocioni could get a contract of $6-7+ mil, I doubt Chicago or Noc would turn that down.
While Scola is really our only bargaining chip, other teams will give Chicago & Nocioini other options & the fact is those options could turn out to be more attractive to the Bulls & Noc, leaving the Spurs to scramble for someone else like maybe Pietrus, but there has been talk lately that GS will match an offer for Pietrus & then get something in return for him, so it is not going to be very easy for the Spurs to get the players they really want.

[ChumpDumper]

No one has explained to me why Chicago wouldn't want Nocioni back except that he had plantar fasciitis, and we all know how that heals up.

Again, if a player is such hot shit and there aren't money issues, there is little chance he would be let go -- especially for these weak-ass offers.

[Big P]

One possible reason they would not want him back is beacuse they are going to be set at the Forward position with Deng & Thomas. Thomas & sefolosha will also have to be extended in the future & depending on the type of contract Nocioni gets, it could have implications on their salary situation. Noc will get a starters type contract, but he would not start on the Bulls, so if they could get expirings, plus an asset like Scola & maybe a draft pick, then it might be worth more to the Bulls to get something for him now. But like I said, a team like Seattle could come along & offer a young player that could help the Bulls out, like Collison who is on a decent contract length & money wise & they would probably take that deal over the Scola deal, unless Noc just absolutely said he wants to play in SA.

[ChumpDumper]

We pay our sixth man $8 million a year.

[ALVAREZ6]

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4387/argentinabasquet2copiapu9.jpgmake it happen!

[Big P]

We pay our sixth man $8 million a year.

And we also pay our starter $3 mil...its an unusual situation that the Spurs are in, but we were lucky enough to get Finley on the cheap & we are also lucky to have Manu happy to come off the bench.

[coopdogg3]

We pay our sixth man $8 million a year.

Manu is technically a bench player. How much are we paying him? If Nocioni becomes a starter when Bowen retires than that's not too much at all.

[Marcus Bryant]

This is still a player's league. Collison? feh.

[Big P]

There are alot of question marks with Scola, one being if he will actually play in the NBA & two how his game will translate to the NBA. Collison is not a superstar, but he is the blue collar type low post player the Bulls would like to have. He is also on a reasonable contract & is probably more appealing to the Bulls than Scola is. Wilcox is also another player the Bulls could look at. I'm sure other teams will offer other players, probably more than what the Spurs can offer.

[Darkwaters]

We pay our sixth man $8 million a year.

And three of our starters make around 3M.

[ChumpDumper]

And Chicago paid one player $33 million in one season.

If the Bulls are trying to build another champion, why give up Nocioni?

[Big P]

I already explained to you why I think they might have to let him go this summer in post #81.

As far as the $33 mil for one player for one season, I know your not comparing Noc to Jordan right?

[ChumpDumper]

I'm illustrating what the Bulls pay to win.

They are a profitable, big market team that is well under the luxury tax threshold.

If you can convince me that Thabo is set to replace Nocioni's impact in games and can start at either forward position in case of injury, I'll agree that Nocioni is easily expendable.

I just don't think an Scola and some other completely unwanted player or players is quite what Chicago would go for, no matter what Andres might want.

[Big P]

And thats exactly what I've been saying. If anything the Bulls could match an offer for
Noc & trade him later instead of taking on unwanted players or contracts for him.

[Big P]

The Bulls paying $33 mil to Jordan to win, doesn't exactly relate to the Bulls paying x amount of dollars for Nocioni to help them have a chance to win.

[ChumpDumper]

The Bulls paying $33 mil to Jordan to win, doesn't exactly relate to the Bulls paying x amount of dollars for Nocioni to help them have a chance to win.When you put that fact together with their cap position, it's pretty clear they'll keep Nocioni for a reasonable deal.

[Big P]

The question is, whats a reasonable deal? 3 years? 4 years? 5 years? $25 mil? $30 mil? $40 mil? Only time will tell.

[smeagol]

If it happens I'm moving to SA

[mountainballer]

just wondering why Nocioni would be out of Spurs price range, if he signs for a (just guessing) 7 million per year contract.
I can't see him get more around the league. (if yes, the whole discussion will have been useless)
it would be a contract in the price range of Rasho (even Malik was cloes to that numbers) and Spurs had place for such a contract.
Horry's and Ely's salaries combine for 6.6 million. (I hope it is understandable what I try to say)

[Slinkyman]

We might get nocioni next year if he signs a one year deal with chicago and becomes unrestricted, otherwise no way we get him this year. I don't know why but my gut tells me te spurs will sign Primoz Brezec this off season.

[ArgSpursFan]

I say lets go for broke and sign the entire Argentina national team.

Not a bad Idea Obiwanginobili.They could also play some games in the offseason in argentina too. :clap

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

just wondering why Nocioni would be out of Spurs price range, if he signs for a (just guessing) 7 million per year contract.
I can't see him get more around the league. (if yes, the whole discussion will have been useless)
it would be a contract in the price range of Rasho (even Malik was cloes to that numbers) and Spurs had place for such a contract.
Horry's and Ely's salaries combine for 6.6 million. (I hope it is understandable what I try to say)

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm

Do some reading.

[GreasyJoe]

don't we need a center more than a backup to duncan? unless he primarily plays SF (i know little about East teams), in which his offense would be useful when bowen gets a rest.

When bowen gets a rest james white will be the useful one on offense

[Big P]

We might get nocioni next year if he signs a one year deal with chicago and becomes unrestricted, otherwise no way we get him this year. I don't know why but my gut tells me te spurs will sign Primoz Brezec this off season.

Primoz has a player option for next year which I'm pretty sure he wont decline.

[Mr. Body]

The Bulls need post scoring more than they need to retain Nocioni. I'd expect him to get shipped for Zach Randolph or somebody in a package, depending on if they can figure out the BYC stuff. Keeping him means an expensive bench player at a position that looks stacked, although they think they can roll Tyrus Thomas to PF full time or something. The Bulls' interest in Collison makes little sense to me, since he's a hustle-type guy and they need a scorer. They already have Ben Wallace.

Nocioni is one of Chicago's great assets to move to get them to the WCF and beyond. They can't keep this team the way it is and think magically they'll move thru. Spencer Hawes might do it, but it'll take him 3 years.

[michaelwcho]

But true floor generals are still a scarce thing. How many point guards aren't just shooting guards in miniature (see Allen Iverson, Daniel Gibson, Earl Boykins etc)? After that, PF is still a difficult spot to fill (again because height limits the pool of candidates) but far easier than the Center position. Wing players are a dime a dozen...but they are the future of this league.

I think point guards have become a more prestigious position overall. It seems we have transitioned from a time where the PG's job was just to give the ball to Shaq, Duncan, or Olajuwon, to where the PG needs to be a penetrating scorer. Look at the success of Nash, Williams, Parker, B. Davis, Billups, with the new, pro-offense rules. Probably the Cavs' biggest issue is that their PG is a black hole, can't pentrate, can't score.

The problem with Iverson, Marbury, Francis is not that they are shoot-first; it's their horrible shooting percentage. If you would have replaced Iverson with Antonio Daniels, Denver would have probably beaten us in the 1st round. On the contrary, look at Parker and Nash, who shoot better than 50%. Of course, with Nash, we're talking a whole 'nother level of skills, too.

Watching the GS game, you certainly got the impression that a bunch of tough 6'8 guys who can shoot and handle could win it all. (and in essence that's what the Bulls were), but here we are, with two teams starring big PFs in the lane.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, you're absolutely right, Mike. The game has significantly changed recently. I'd also say Francis and Marbury's problems may stem from a lack of clear understanding when to distribute and when to score. Baron Davis is a similar-type point, but more actively gets his teammates involved. But replacing AI with AD and suggesting Denver might win is silly - can't go with you there.

But yes, the point guard has returned to some prominence. That's why a guy like Rodney Stuckey could get picked higher than he should this year - because he's a combo guard with scoring ability who can run the point.

There has also been another shift in the SF from a SG/SF to a SF/PF hybrid. With the advent of small ball, the importance of a SF who can play the blocks and rebound has increased. Look at Julian Wright and Jeff Green in this draft - they become more important. Their size is also important, to guard the stronger SFs like Anthony and LeBron or the taller perimeter stars like Dirk.

We're lucky we have one of the better young points in Parker, but we could definitely use a back-up. What we badly need is that big SF.

[Big P]

The Bulls need post scoring more than they need to retain Nocioni. I'd expect him to get shipped for Zach Randolph or somebody in a package, depending on if they can figure out the BYC stuff. Keeping him means an expensive bench player at a position that looks stacked, although they think they can roll Tyrus Thomas to PF full time or something. The Bulls' interest in Collison makes little sense to me, since he's a hustle-type guy and they need a scorer. They already have Ben Wallace.

Nocioni is one of Chicago's great assets to move to get them to the WCF and beyond. They can't keep this team the way it is and think magically they'll move thru. Spencer Hawes might do it, but it'll take him 3 years.

Paxson does not want to take players with questionable character, which Randolph definilty has a questionable charaacter, & the Bulls definitly arent going to pay an average of $15.5 mil over the next 4 years for a player like that. Taking Randolph would totally screw any kind of cap flexibility they have. The Bulls need a role player, not a superstar. Chris Wilcox is another player Chicago has interest in he is on a reasonable short contract & could be the type of player the Bulls are looking for. If Lewis bolts Seattle & it looks like he will, Seattle could offer Wilcox to the Bulls for a S&T of Nocioni, since the Sonics will have a void to fill at SF IF Lewis leaves.

[michaelwcho]

There has also been another shift in the SF from a SG/SF to a SF/PF hybrid. With the advent of small ball, the importance of a SF who can play the blocks and rebound has increased. Look at Julian Wright and Jeff Green in this draft - they become more important. Their size is also important, to guard the stronger SFs like Anthony and LeBron or the taller perimeter stars like Dirk.

We're lucky we have one of the better young points in Parker, but we could definitely use a back-up. What we badly need is that big SF.

I thought Daniels looked good a couple years ago playing for Seattle...anyways :)

Yeah, a big athletic SF would be great. Actually I think we have one--Horry--he's just too old :)

[diego]

it all depends on the bulls' interest in scola. i think either one could help us, though noc fills more needs for us.

also, as much as i like nocioni's syle, he is prone to mental lapses and im not sure if pop likes him as much as we do.

[ChumpDumper]

If Lewis bolts Seattle & it looks like he will, Seattle could offer Wilcox to the Bulls for a S&T of Nocioni, since the Sonics will have a void to fill at SF IF Lewis leaves.Are they not going to draft a small forward?

[Bruno]

Nocioni won't be under contract with Bulls this summer : if they do a S&T with him, he must agree with the team and the contract. I don't see Nocioni going on a team like Seattle where he won't start and that isn't a contender.

If Bulls aren't ready to re-sign Nocioni, Spurs will be in a quite good position to get him. The problem is that Bulls will likely re-sign Nocioni.

[Big P]

Nocioni won't be under contract with Bulls this summer : if they do a S&T with him, he must agree with the team and the contract. I don't see Nocioni going on a team like Seattle where he won't start and that isn't a contender.

If Bulls aren't ready to re-sign Nocioni, Spurs will be in a quite good position to get him. The problem is that Bulls will likely re-sign Nocioni.

He might not technically be under contract, but he is restricted, so Chicago will have a say if he stays or goes.

He could possibly start in Seattle depending on if they get Durant & how they play him, ie bring him along slowly or throw him into the frying pan.

Also about Nocioni starting, he isn't going to start in Chicago, so I dont think thats a main sticking point.

I dont see how you think the Spurs are in a good position to sign him. One, we only have the MLE to spend, & so do a bunch of other teams. Two, if it is a S&T, Chicago is going to have to want Scola, if they aren't interested in Scola, then we have no shot for a S&T for Nocioni, I wouldn't exactly call that a good position the Spurs are in.

[K-State Spur]

it all depends on the bulls' interest in scola. i think either one could help us, though noc fills more needs for us.

also, as much as i like nocioni's syle, he is prone to mental lapses and im not sure if pop likes him as much as we do.

yep, all things being equal - we have the rights to a post player which the bulls could really use and they have the rights to a wing player that we could really use.

however, given that noccioni is a proven NBA player and Scola is not means that all things aren't equal.

[Bruno]

I dont see how you think the Spurs are in a good position to sign him.

:wtf
Can you read before posting.

[ArgSpursFan]

I´ve got the feelling that the Bulls are gonna try to keep him next year.At the same time spurs have Bruce and Finley next year also.
Unless Finley don´t use his player option and the bulls dont offer Nocioni a better deal Its gonna be hard.But If the Bulls think they can use Scola,them We have a deal again.So i would say its a matter of time and Players/teams Desitions.

[Big P]

:wtf
Can you read before posting.

So your saying that the Spurs will be in a good position to sign him if the Bulls aren'tt ready to reup his contract?

So will 28 other teams.

I dont see how the Spurs have an advantage over other teams wanting Noc's services, besides 2 other Argentinians play here. Maybe you could clarify what puts us in a "good" position to sign him.

[Bruno]

So your saying that the Spurs will be in a good position to sign him if the Bulls aren'tt ready to reup his contract?

So will 28 other teams.

I dont see how the Spurs have an advantage over other teams wanting Noc's services, besides 2 other Argentinians play here. Maybe you could clarify what puts us in a "good" position to sign him.


Spurs are in a good position because :
- Manu and Oberto.
- Spurs are contenders. Nocioni next contract will likely be his last nba contract, I odn't think he wants to play with a crappy team.
- Playtime. Nocioni won't have troubles to get playtime with Spurs.

Two things about the restricted free agency process :

1) Negociations didn't start between teams and Bulls. They start between teams and Nocioni. It won't be Bulls who will choose where Nocioni will go. I don't see Nocioni saying to Bulls "you can S&T me everywhere". He should say "I would like to play for team X, can you work on a S&T with them".

2) If Bulls aren't interested in Scola + incentives for Nocioni and even if Spurs have only the MLE, they can do an offer not easy to match for Bulls if they don't want to keep Nocioni. Signing Bonus, Contract frontloaded and trade kicker can turn a MLE contract into a contract that Bulls won't match.


All these things are quite moot because Nocioni has already said that he wants to stay with Bulls and I don't see why Bulls won't keep him.

[Ariel]

So your saying that the Spurs will be in a good position to sign him if the Bulls aren'tt ready to reup his contract?

So will 28 other teams.

I dont see how the Spurs have an advantage over other teams wanting Noc's services, besides 2 other Argentinians play here. Maybe you could clarify what puts us in a "good" position to sign him.
Provided Nocioni doesn't get offers much higher than the MLE, I think the Spurs would have a decent shot at him. For starters, even if Chicago signs him, eventually they'll have to deal him due to the SF/PF logjam. And, considering he's a RFA, they do have a say in his decision, but lets remember so does he. Andrés can't go wherever he wants as Chicago can match and force him to stay, but they can't send him wherever they want either as he has to sign the offer sheet in the first place.

So, if he were determined enough to sign for the Spurs (and money being -about- the same, knowing Chapu I'd bet my life on the fact that he'd choose to play for the Spurs over anyone else), he could force the Bulls to enter negotiations with the Spurs by making it known that he'll either sign with them or not at all, which would diminish the Bulls bargaining power. Of course his power isn't absolute as failure to sign a contract would tie him with the Bulls for another year, which they positively know is not in his best interest.

However, if he makes the Bulls feel he's serious and that there is a real chance of losing him for nothing in the near future, it could lower their demands just enough that they may be inclined to take a reasonable offer instead of the best one available (and I don't doubt they'll receive better offers than whatever the Spurs can put together). Beware, the key word here is reasonable: Paxson isn't stupid and he won't be toyed with, so if he feels he's getting screwed, he'll simply make sure everyone else's plans gets screwed as well. But if everyone is seriously interested, perhaps something could be arranged.

So, though this is admittedly not the most likely of scenarios as it is contingent on far too many uncertainties, I still think it's a plausible one. And one that I'll certainly be hoping for.

[Mr. Body]

I don't see any way the Bulls won't be interested in Scola. The question is what they think a proper price might be.

[david ruffin]

hola,(write in spanish)en primer lugar me gustaria saber si ya esta confirmado que ¨chapu¨ya es agente libre,y segundo,los spurs necesitan a un jugador como andres?y si asi fuera,a que jugador se lo dejaria fuera del equipo? demas esta decir la garra.las ganas de ganar en cada partido,el sudor q el chapu le pone en cada bola que disputa,pero hay muchas preguntas aun sin respuestas,pero si a mi me preguntan,que venga.estoy seguro que seria un jugador totalmente protagonista!! :ihit :clap

[Big P]

The bottom line is, Chicago can & probably will match any reasonable contract. Like I said earlier, the question is what does Chicago think is reasonable. I'm pretty sure they would think a MLE contract is reasonable & that is the only money we have to offer him for a contract. Now 2 things can happen, he can sign it & Chicago can match & keep him, or Chicago decides not to match & will try to do a S&T for Noc. Sure Chicago might be interested in Scola, but there are a couple of big question marks, like will he be able to actually play in the NBA next year & is it worth giving up Nocioni for Scola.

As far as a signing bonus goes, I'm not sure what the rule is or even if there is such a thing as a signing bonus, but I do know that Chicago can give him %10 raises on his contract where other teams can only offer %8 or %8.5 & Chicago can give him a 6 year deal where other teams can only sign him to a 5 year deal.

Like you said, we could frontload the contract, but since we are talking about a MLE contract, the diffence wouldn't be that much & in fact a frontloaded contract could help Chicago with future cap room, the Bulls frontloaded Ben Wallaces & Hinrichs deals.

Sure he wants to win, but if some team like the Bobcats or Atlanta or Orlando offered him a contract with a salary starting between $7-8 mil a year, I'm pretty sure he would take the extra $3 mil as opposed to signing with someone for the MLE, afterall it probably will be his last contract like you said.

I want Nocioni here as bad as you do, I'm just saying that alot of things will have to go our way in order to get a deal done.

[Bruno]

You still hasn't understood my first post. :rolleyes
Please re-read my post, I've never said that Spurs haver a good chance to get Nocioni.

My last try to explain to you what I've said. If you still don't understand, I give up.

Bulls will have two choices with Nocioni :
- Choice A : they like him and decide to re-sign him.
- Choice B : they decide not to re-sign him and use him as an asset to get something for him via RFA.

IF Bulls choice is A, Spurs have almost no chance to get Nocioni. Let's say 1%.

IF Bulls choice is B, Spurs have a good chance to get Nocioni. Let's say 20%.

IF Bulls choice is B and Spurs try to get him by using the MLE on him, Bulls can match but given that they have decided not to re-sign him, it will be to trade him later. Spurs offer can use some CBA tricks (trade kicker, front loaded, signing bonus) to make less interesting a future trade made by Bulls. If trading Nocioni become less interesting, Bulls will less likely match.

Bulls choice will likely be choice A. Let's say Bulls will made choice A at 90%. So Spurs chances to get Nocioni will be around 3%.

[mountainballer]

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm

Do some reading.

sorry sir.
thanks that you immediatly reacted to my imprecisely statement, when I mentioned that Horry (who might retire) and Ely (who won't be resigned) combine for 6.6 million $ this year, when they in fact combine for 6.623615 million.
it was a thought, what kind of money the FO might be willing to invest in a player, who will likely play twice the minutes the two mentioned players currently combine for.
see, that's why I cautiously mentioned, that I hope this example is understandable.
obviously it wasn't, so I have to offer my apologies to you AH, I won't try again to confuse you with something like a sign and trade scenario (as decribet in post #53).
my bad.

[Big P]

Bruno, we are having a discussion, putting rollseyes smileys is a little childish, there is a little bit of a language barrier, sorry about that.

When you said quote:

"If Bulls aren't ready to re-sign Nocioni, Spurs will be in a quite good position to get him. The problem is that Bulls will likely re-sign Nocioni."

Thats doesn't look like the Spurs are in a good position to sign him.

Then you said quote:

"Bulls will have two choices with Nocioni :
- Choice A : they like him and decide to re-sign him.
- Choice B : they decide not to re-sign him and use him as an asset to get something for him via RFA.

IF Bulls choice is A, Spurs have almost no chance to get Nocioni. Let's say 1%.

IF Bulls choice is B, Spurs have a good chance to get Nocioni. Let's say 20%."

The Spurs having a %1 or %20, to me does not sound like the spurs are in a good position to sign him."


Then you said quote:

"Bulls choice will likely be choice A. Let's say Bulls will made choice A at 90%. So Spurs chances to get Nocioni will be around 3%."

Overall, I dont see how having a %3 chance means the Spurs are a good position to get Nocioni.

All that being said, I HOPE the Spurs get a chance to go after him. I personally think that he is our SF of the future & would be a perfect fit on this team.

[ducks]

Nocioni angry over withdrawal from Argentina

May 24, 2007
BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (Ticker) - First, the San Antonio Spurs duo of Manu Ginobili and Fabricio Oberto revealed they would not play for Argentina at the FIBA Americas Championship. They were followed by Walter Herrmann of the Charlotte Bobcats.

Now the South Americans have received a fourth blow ahead of the Olympic qualifying tournament in Las Vegas with a foot injury forcing Andres Nocioni of the Chicago Bulls to rule himself out.

Nocioni, a key man in the gold medal win at the Athens Olympics two years ago, made the announcement in a letter published on Argentina basketball's federation web site.

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"This (darn) sole (plantar) fasciitis I've been carrying for some months has not fully healed," he said.

Nocioni went on to say the Bulls medical staff decided he should immobilize his right foot for up to seven weeks.

"I cannot explain how angry I am," Nocioni said. "Since making my debut in the national team, I have never been absent from any nomination and I did not want to be absent now.

"So, that's what I said to (Argentina coach Sergio) Hernandez and anyone else who asked me about this. Unfortunately, this treacherous injury was worse."

Argentina's star-studded group in Athens three years ago looked like a team that might dominate international competition for several years, but it hasn't proved to be the case.

An Argentina B team competed at the FIBA Americas Championship in 2005 with the country, by virtue of the Olympic title, having already booked a place at the FIBA World Championship.

Then in Japan last summer, the bulk of the Olympic team gathered again and came within one Nocioni 3-pointer of playing for the world title.

Nocioni's shot from the right corner in the last seconds of the semifinal against Spain bounced off the rim, and the Spanish advanced to the title game where they destroyed Greece.

Argentina lost to the United States in the bronze medal game.

Now the national team will do well just to make it to Beijing.

"I wanted to send these lines to you because I don't want to be involved in any speculation, as during this process too many words have been badly used," Nocioni said.

"Trust me - if I haven't had this injury, I would have joined you as always, wearing the national shirt proudly."

Only the top two sides in Las Vegas will clinch automatic places in China.

Teams that finish third, fourth and fifth will still have a chance to make it to Beijing by taking part in the World Olympic Qualifying tournament a month before the Summer Games.

Ginobili did not want to miss the event, and made it clear that advice from the Spurs that he should skip the event did impact his decision.

As for Argentina's chances, this team will still have star quality with power forward Luis Scola the undisputed leader of the team, and Unicaja Malaga playmaker Pepe Sanchez, a veteran for the national side.

They will be supported by Scola's Tau Ceramica teammate, point guard Pablo Prigioni, and longtime national team center Ruben Wolkowisky of BC Khimki and Detroit Pistons guard Carlos Delfino. But a unit without Ginobili, Nocioni, Oberto and Herrmann does not look nearly as formidable.

Nocioni is still upbeat about Argentina's chances.

"Beyond the pain of being absent, I know Sergio and all the other fellas will achieve the goal and we'll be defending what we achieved in Athens in one year's time," Nocioni said.

"The only thing I want is for you to reserve a place for me, because I've always been, I am and I will always be part of the national team."

[Bruno]

A Nocioni interview :
http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2007/06/03/01431274.html

The translated version (thanks to the realgm poster who did it) :
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=668796


Relaxed and happy due to being back in Argentina and starting his vacations ("I'm gonna go fishing and hunting the whole time", he said). That's how Andres Nocioni feels. Not even the tiredness of arriving just minutes ago to the country could swipe the smile from Chapu's face. However, when he started talking about the injury, he looked troubled. "It has me worried. It's been 3 weeks without any basketball activity, wearing a boot, and when I take it out it still hurts. I'm cranky", he said about the plantar fascitis that made him skip 28 games in the NBA and opt out of the Preolympic tournament in Las Vegas.


-What do you think of your season and how much did the injury limit you?

The first three-four months were excellent, I felt good physically, with confidence. I was on top of my game, the numbers reflected that it was my best season, but then the injury came... It was a big setback. Against Detroit the pain was too intense and I sucked because of it.

-When did the injury appear and what's plan B if the boot doesn't heal it?.

It appeared during preseason, on my gluteus. Then it went all the way down to my hamstring. Then to my adductor. I realized that, because of the injury, I had changed my running style... then it came this fascitis that isn't like other ones. The ideal would have been if my fascia would have broken, like it happened to Scola. You get back to 100% in a month. This one affects the tendon, then bone. The solution is treatment and inactivity. If this doesn't work surgery is an option, but there is a big change of the injury coming back.

-Can't you pace yourself?. Manu seems to do it.

I can't, it's hard for me. I have to play well every game of the regular season to make it to the postseason with confidence. I don't know if Manu paces himself or if the coach does it.

-Can this injury affect your future contract negotiation?.

At first I got worried, I thought teams would doubt about signing me. But then I realized it's not an extremely serious injury, yet it's important, but I don't think think teams will have second thoughts because of it.

-Do you think that the Bulls (they have the right to match any other offer) will resign you?.

I really don't know. I'm very comfortable and happy in Chicago, and I know they want me, but I also know that they need a scoring PF to win a ring. They told me and I understand. We are all exposed to being traded or not signed back.

-The Bulls have always said that you're an example.

Yes, they value my game and my heart, but with heart alone they're not going to win a ring. If they have to trade me to get better, they will.

-Do you think the rest of the league values you, respects you?.

The other players don't like me much (laughs). But it's because they don't know me... I used to hate Leo Gutierrez (an Argentinean player) when I played against him and today we're friends. I think I know my role and I could be a good fit in any team.

-Would San Antonio or Cleveland suit you?.

I'd be extremely happy if those teams wanted me. But in San Antonio I would definitely have more barbecues (laughs).

[WalterBenitez]

Just to mention, Chapu guarded Lebron well, the kid got mad because of his phisical game :eyebrows

[picnroll]

Just to mention, Chapu guarded Lebron well, the kid got mad because of his phisical game :eyebrows
That probably adds considerable value to the Bulls in keeping him. Every Eastern team is going to be looking for that guy to bang on LeBron.

[Spurs Brazil]

Nocioni in San Antonio would be perfect

[Big P]

Nice find Bruno! Thanks for the translation. I hope Noc heals %100 & is able to come back at full strength, no matter what team he's on. That being said, I hope he seriously considers SA & possibly force Chicago to let him go.

[clubalien]

What makes you believe that Butler's a bust? Pop ALWAYS makes new players, especially youngsters, learn the system for a year before they play. (look at Oberto - useless last year, very useful this year) He's dropped 30-40lbs, looks svelt and strong, has breat hands around the basket, legit moves, and a nice leap for someone his size. If he has any bball IQ at all he should stick here... the only question is his bball IQ as far as I can see. Do you know something I don't? If so, do tell. :)

I think next year Butler will be the backup centre, Oberto will start and Fran will play when matchups suit (ie. not much! :lol ).


or dominate post player of the futre is IAN
david>tim>ian

[AnotherArgie]

http://www.nba.com/media/espanol/nocioni_james_455.jpg

:smokin

[AnotherArgie]

And, of course, The Ballad of Nocioni:

http://espn-mp3-od.andomedia.com/stations/990/mjhnocioni.mp3

EDIT: there's also a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mDe5NA_Sjg)

[Bruno]

The fact that Bulls tells Nocioni "we won't maybe re-sign you because we need a PF who can score in the paint", can give Spurs some hope to get Nocioni this summer.

A Nocioni S&T should be with a team :
- With a PF who can score in the paint.
- Bulls must like this PF.
- The PF can't be too expensive because Spurs must match salaries during the S&T and because of the luxury tax.
- The other team must need a player like Nocioni and must be ready to take his contract.
- Nocioni must agree to play with the other team.

If Bulls like Scola and if they are serious about not re-signing Nocioni, Spurs have a good chance to get Nocioni this summer if they want him.

[Big P]

I guess the biggest question may be, are the Spurs ready to pay Noc a contract totalling $20-25+ million. I would think that Nocioni would be looking for at least a 4 or 5 year deal. With that said, IMO the Spurs would add that type of salary for a player like Nocioni, he seems like the perfect fit for the type of SF we need. Plus him being able to play some PF when the Spurs need to go small is a huge plus.

[timvp]

The fact that Bulls tells Nocioni "we won't maybe re-sign you because we need a PF who can score in the paint", can give Spurs some hope to get Nocioni this summer.

A Nocioni S&T should be with a team :
- With a PF who can score in the paint.
- Bulls must like this PF.
- The PF can't be too expensive because Spurs must match salaries during the S&T and because of the luxury tax.
- The other team must need a player like Nocioni and must be ready to take his contract.
- Nocioni must agree to play with the other team.

If Bulls like Scola and if they are serious about not re-signing Nocioni, Spurs have a good chance to get Nocioni this summer if they want him.

Yeah it comes down to whether the Bulls like Scola or not. Scoring power forwards are pretty rare but if there is one thing Scola can do it's score. Or at least that's his reputation :)

When I look at the Bulls roster, I still contend that they don't need Nocioni as much as some in this thread think. Deng is their small forward of the future. He's going to eat up 35-40 minutes a game for the next decade. Then you have Thabo Sefolosha who can slide between small forward and shooting guard. Then there is Tyrus Thomas who can slide between small forward and power forward.

If you have those three players and you bring in the scoring power forward that they want, where are the minutes going to come from for Nocioni? They play Nocioni at small forward and power forward. But that's exactly what Thomas is and Thomas has more potential and is a player in the future who will get big minutes.

I don't really see where Nocioni fits in their long-term plans.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Scola>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nocioni

[Big P]

Scola>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nocioni

How do you know that? Scola has never played in the NBA, while I agree that Scola is a very good player, I would need to see how Scolas game translates to the NBA before declaring that Scola is that much better than Nocioni. Also I think that the SF position is a bigger need for the Spurs than PF.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

How do you know that? Scola has never played in the NBA, while I agree that Scola is a very good player, I would need to see how Scolas game translates to the NBA before declaring that Scola is that much better than Nocioni. Also I think that the SF position is a bigger need for the Spurs than PF.




Duncan usually moves to the center anyway during games, Scola could play the PF



we can't rely on 32 year old Oberto and his one FLUKE great series to be a C for the Spurs future

[ChumpDumper]

Duncan usually moves to the center anyway during games, Scola could play the PFWhere would each set up on offense?
we can't rely on 32 year old Oberto and his one FLUKE great series to be a C for the Spurs futureActually, for what is asked of a big man playing alongside Duncan, Oberto is a better fit. It would be nice if he had a jumper but you can't have everything.

Scola would be nice off the bench when Duncan sits, mostly.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Where would each set up on offense?Actually, for what is asked of a big man playing alongside Duncan, Oberto is a better fit. It would be nice if he had a jumper but you can't have everything.

Scola would be nice off the bench when Duncan sits, mostly.



When TD sits, Spurs have NO low post game



so why would the Spurs rather Moc over Scola, makes no sense

[ChumpDumper]

When TD sits, Spurs have NO low post gameImplied in my post.
so why would the Spurs rather Moc over Scola, makes no senseAlot of it comes down to what this team is willing to pay for a guy that is only going to be effective that 10-15 minutes when Duncan sits, especially when there are other more pressing needs.

[Bruno]

Skiles isn't a big fan of his backcourt because they are too small and they sucks against SG like Carter or Hamilton. Duhon has been crappy in this playoffs too. I think Bulls want to use Sefolosha mainly at SG.

To me, Bulls rotation next year if they re-sign nocioni could be :
PG : Hinrich/Gordon
SG : Gordon/Sefolosha
SF : Deng/Nocioni
PF : Thomas/Nocioni
C : Wallace/?

Nocioni should have enough playtime as backup SF/PF but tehy still have their low post scoring trouble.
They can draft a backup C like Spencer Hawes or sign a FA with a post game but it won't be enough to solve their low post scoring troubles.
But you're right, if they want a scoring PF, they won't keep Nocioni.

[Mr. Body]

Chicago drafts Hawes, IMO. Slight chance for Yi or Noah, but Hawes drops to them.

If they think they can run Tyrus Thomas as PF and be successful, they're in trouble. Right now he's an energy guy off the bench who is terribly erratic and has few fundamental skills.

[Bruno]

one thing Scola can do it's score. Or at least that's his reputation :)


He scored 22 points (10/17 from the field) today against Barcelona. :p:

Let's hope bulls haven't realized that he hasn't scored a single point in the last 8 minutes of the game.
After 32 minutes, Tau was up 61-60 and they lost the game 83-76 with Scola being 0/4 from the field in the last 8 minutes.

[mountainballer]

if it takes Scola to get Nocioni it's a no-brainer of course.
(I would like both, but you can't have everything)
even if Scola would somehow manage to get used to NBA quickly and play well, the impact of Nocioni would be more significant, considering the needs at SF and PF (and the rebounding he would provide, something no Spurs SG/SF does right now).
Spurs with Scola= better team
Spurs with Nocioni= much better team

[Mr. Body]

Bulls don't necessarily need Scola to be a crunch time scorer. That's ostensibly what Ben Gordon does.

[timvp]

He scored 22 points (10/17 from the field) today against Barcelona. :p:

Let's hope bulls haven't realized that he hasn't scored a single point in the last 8 minutes of the game.
After 32 minutes, Tau was up 61-60 and they lost the game 83-76 with Scola being 0/4 from the field in the last 8 minutes.

Are we sure Scola isn't from Turkey?

:smokin

[mountainballer]

Chicago drafts Hawes, IMO. Slight chance for Yi or Noah, but Hawes drops to them.

If they think they can run Tyrus Thomas as PF and be successful, they're in trouble. Right now he's an energy guy off the bench who is terribly erratic and has few fundamental skills.

not to forget, that Thomas isn't exactly the most beloved player in Chicago (thanks to a very arrogant behavior).
of course the Bulls can find a nice player in this draft, but they also know that this team won't wait another 2 years till this player makes them a championship contender.
IMO Bulls will try to work out a trade this summer and the pick + TT will be the cornerstones of the package. maybe Nocioni S&T will be the third piece (especially to make the numbers work)

[ChumpDumper]

I know I constantly bring this up, but Marcus Fizer has popped up in some private workouts.


In between sessions a workout was held for NBA and International Teams sponsored by Chicago based sports agency Priority Sports (headed by Mark Bartelstein). This featured names such as Marcus Fizer, Michael Bradley, Keith Langford, Desmon Farmer, Matt Freije, Awvee Storey, Brandon Hunter, Theron Smith, Eric Williams, Drake Diener, Brian Bracey and many others, mostly through five on five games rotating established European-based players in and out.

In the workout, Marcus Fizer showed off many of the dominating skills that made the Chicago Bulls decide to draft him with the #5 pick in the 2000 draft, as well as the #1 scorer in the ACB League this year. He created his own shot at will, both from the perimeter or inside the post, showing incredibly quick feet and a terrific knack for finding his way to the basket despite still looking very much out of shape. His turnaround jumper looked virtually unstoppable, elevating decently off the ground and displaying fantastic touch. Fizer was just a load in the post who anyone who tried to guard him, putting his rear-end into his man and clearing him out of the way at will to get to virtually wherever he wanted on the floor. Defensively, he was just average.

A number of NBA teams were here to watch Fizer in particular, including Chicago, Indiana, Miami, the LA Lakers, New Jersey, Portland, the LA Clippers, and Charlotte just from the people we were able to recognize from our vantage point. Fizer looks like he could play in the NBA for at least the minimum if that’s what he really wanted to do, but losing 15-20 pounds could really make an intriguing prospect out of him.

http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2091

I'm not advocating the signing of Fizer, though his range would probably make him a better offensive fit with Duncan. I also know that he was playing on a team in its first year in Spain's top league, but still -- the stats are very close to Scola's. So how does the interest in an again-fat Marcus Fizer affect Scola's trade stock?


http://draftexpress.com/gallery/General/1180678396.jpg
Question.

[Bruno]

I also know that he was playing on a team in its first year in Spain's top league, but still -- the stats are very close to Scola's. So how does the interest in an again-fat Marcus Fizer affect Scola's trade stock?


Last year, Mike James stats were better than Tony Parker's ones.
IMO, the fact that Scola plays in a top euro team and has to play twice more games because of the euroleague makes a big difference.

And I'm not sure that being fat hurt Fizer scoring ability.

[ChumpDumper]

Last year Mike James stats were better than Tony Parker's ones.But Tony wasn't a free agent at the same time James was.

I wouldn't have brought this up without evidence of actual interest in Fizer.

Does it drive Scola's trade stock down because there is a guy out there who scored more he did in the same league, and happens to have and NBA track record (not a great one, btw), and can probably be signed for the minimum without giving anything up?

Or does the number of teams interested in Fizer actually drive up Scola's value since, outside the range issue, their games are similar and Fizer's performance provides a standard by which a historically more durable Scola's NBA performance could be estimated ?

[picnroll]

On the otherhand nice to see so many teams interested in a Fizer type player. If Portland gets rid of Randolph, Scola for Outlaw. Gives Portland an experienced, fiery veteran to raise the kids.

[Bruno]

I don't think Fizer avalibilty has an influence on Scola trade value.

Scola has some edges over Fizer. Scola has a high BBIQ while Fizer is known for his low BBIQ. Fizer is overweight and has been a journeyman while Scola has had a lot of success in europe and with argentina.

I can see a nba teams being interested in Fizer as 10th-12th man and being interested in Scola as 6th-8th man.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, given their ACB stats and Fizer's NBA stats, how much more would they expect out of Scola?

I guess I'm asking the same question -- what would GMs expect from Scola and how much would they be prepared to pay and give up for that?

I have trouble seeing a package we could put together that Chicago would want in exchange for Nocioni and the likely MLE-or-higher kind of money he could get.

[Bruno]

Well, given their ACB stats and Fizer's NBA stats, how much more would they expect out of Scola?


Fizer was a 12/6 nba player during 2 seasons. He was playing with a bad team.
I can see an optimistic GM, hopping that Scola put the same stats or maybe slighty better stats with a good team.



I have trouble seeing a package we could put together that Chicago would want in exchange for Nocioni and the likely MLE-or-higher kind of money he could get.

If I were a GM, I will never trade Nocioni for Scola straight up. Nocioni is a sure thing while Scola can be at best as good as Nocioni.

Spurs only hope to get Nocioni is that teams don't get equal value in S&T. With some luck,a Scola + 2008 late first round pick offer for Nocioni could be the best solution available for Bulls this summer.

[ChumpDumper]

With some luck,a Scola + 2008 late first round pick offer for Nocioni could be the best solution available for Bulls this summer.But what other player or players would Chicago accept to make the salaries work?

I think one or more other teams would have to get involved.

[Bruno]

But what other player or players would Chicago accept to make the salaries work?

I think one or more other teams would have to get involved.

Spurs have tons of expirings : Udrih, Barry, White, Elson, Horry(if he decide to retire) or Butler. Spurs can too give some cash to pay their salary.

[Mr. Body]

Butler has to be attractive to Chicago, as well. Not as a normal rotation guy, but he's someone who can score in the post.

[Bruno]

BTW, it seems that hoopshype is wrong on Nocioni this year salary : it's $3.95M and not $3.03M. S&T with the BYC stuff are easier to do.

[spurtime]

Expirings for non-rotation players mean nothing to Chicago since they can just let Nocioni walk and not have to pay anything for a player that gives them nothing. We have to give them player(s) that will potentially see time in the Chicago rotation. The only guys I can see the Bulls being interested in are Barry, because he can still light it up from the perimeter, and Scola, because they want a PF who can score in the post. We will probably have to include picks as well.

[ChumpDumper]

Spurs have tons of expirings : Udrih, Barry, White, Elson, Horry(if he decide to retire) or Butler. Spurs can too give some cash to pay their salary.That's the best deal Chicago could get for Nocioni? Just seems unlikely. Chicago could always re-sign nocioni and trade him later if they don't find a deal to their liking. I don't see that much pressure on the Bulls to deal this summer.

[WalterBenitez]

Not sure if it was said before, but today in ARG's newspaper (ole) Nocioni said he was told about trade scenario many times, and he'd love to eat some good barbacues in San Antonio ... is there decent meal in Texas? argentineans are very demanding!!!

[Bruno]

That's the best deal Chicago could get for Nocioni?

If you find a better deal with another team that makes sense for both teams and Nocioni...
Given all the constraints, I don't see a lot of possibilities for Chicago. A first and Scola could be the best offer.



Chicago could always re-sign nocioni and trade him later if they don't find a deal to their liking. I don't see that much pressure on the Bulls to deal this summer.

It's too a possibility.
I too don't think that nocioni with Sprus is the more likely solution.

[mountainballer]

Well, given their ACB stats and Fizer's NBA stats, how much more would they expect out of Scola?

I guess I'm asking the same question -- what would GMs expect from Scola and how much would they be prepared to pay and give up for that?

I have trouble seeing a package we could put together that Chicago would want in exchange for Nocioni and the likely MLE-or-higher kind of money he could get.

jesus. you used the Fizer comparison to downplay Scola's value for quite some time now.
maybe you should just watch Scola play (I expect the GMs also don't buy the players just from a stat sheet) and you would see, that he is just a better player than Fizer. a much better player. no matter what the scoring numbers say. end of story.
would you in fact go out and put Zach on the same level with Tim because of his scoring numbers?

[ChumpDumper]

jesus. you used the Fizer comparison to downplay Scola's value for quite some time now.I asked how the actual reported interest in Fizer would affect the unreported interest in you folks believe there is in Scola, if at all.

Why don't you take off the kneepads for a second and answer the question.
would you in fact go out and put Zach on the same level with Tim because of his scoring numbers?Is the difference that big?

What should everyone expect from Scola in the NBA?

[mountainballer]

What should everyone expect from Scola in the NBA?

from Nocioni like impact (as best case scenario) to Garbajosa like impact (as worst case).
I use this two, because I have seen them play alongside or against Scola.

in other words: 15 and 7 as a best case scenario (a reach, would only happen on a bad team), 12 and 6 as a more realistic scenario and 10 and 5 as the worst case.

[picnroll]

from Nocioni like impact (as best case scenario) to Garbajosa like impact (as worst case).
I use this two, because I have seen them play alongside or against Scola.

in other words: 15 and 7 as a best case scenario (a reach, would only happen on a bad team), 12 and 6 as a more realistic scenario and 10 and 5 as the worst case.
Garbajosa came with a reputation as a considerably better defender and outside shooter, no?

[WalterBenitez]

http://www.nba.com/media/espanol/nocioni_james_455.jpg

:smokin

That's what I call a perfect block ...with Bruce and Chapu on court we would have a multiracial defense ... is just a question of ordering .. you prefer a dirty afroamerican or white "pest" guy :lmao

[WalterBenitez]

Scola>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nocioni

Off speakin yeah, but as a soul of the team I prefer Chapu in any giving day
:elephant

[naico]

If Nocioni would be inerested in playing for the spurs..Couldn't he force the bulls to sign and trade him? Telling the bulls that if they match any offer, he wouldn't be the same player coming back, not willing to give it his all etc. The only smart thing for chicago to do is then signing him and trading him to the spurs so that they can at least get something out of this all?

[mountainballer]

Garbajosa came with a reputation as a considerably better defender and outside shooter, no?

I was talking about the overall impact that could be expected. and in this regard, Scola should provide at least as much help for a team like Garbajosa did.
(didn't try to compare them by every aspect of their game. Garbajosa is a better outside shooter. Scola has the better post moves. Garbajosa is a better defender. Scola is a better passer. Garbajosa is smarter. Scola has more fire. where would you stop to compare?)

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Butler has to be attractive to Chicago, as well. Not as a normal rotation guy, but he's someone who can score in the post.

Or, as I think is the plan, he becomes our second low-post scoring option. Kid can work the block, seriously! Soft touch too. He'll get his chance to play some backup minutes next year as long as he keeps the weight off over summer.

I hope Scola and whatever else they want can get us Nocioni, he would be fantastic here. Historically, we've not been very good at deals like this, but we have Oberto and Manu and I think that might be a factor in this scenario.

Fingers crossed.

(I'm sure he's not another Hedo... :lol )

[yavozerb]

If we can use scola to help get nocioni, fantastic..
If we decide to keep scola and sign him this or next year, Great..
This really is a win win situation for the spurs cause either way the spurs should get better with either of these 2 players.

[GSH]

If the Bulls believe that they will have a good team next year (I do), then they will be giving up a first-round pick to the Spurs. That conditional pick is one of the bargaining chips we have with them.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

If Nocioni would be inerested in playing for the spurs..Couldn't he force the bulls to sign and trade him? Telling the bulls that if they match any offer, he wouldn't be the same player coming back, not willing to give it his all etc. The only smart thing for chicago to do is then signing him and trading him to the spurs so that they can at least get something out of this all?would you want him if he did that? Shit like that is for little bitches

[waly.mg]

If we can use scola to help get nocioni, fantastic..
If we decide to keep scola and sign him this or next year, Great..
This really is a win win situation for the spurs cause either way the spurs should get better with either of these 2 players.

I´m from Argentina, in the national Team the situation is:

Ginobili > Scola > Nocioni > Oberto > Pepe > Hermmann > Delfino

So a Scola for Nocioni trade is a good business, a Scola and other player not

[waly.mg]

I asked how the actual reported interest in Fizer would affect the unreported interest in you folks believe there is in Scola, if at all.

Why don't you take off the kneepads for a second and answer the question.Is the difference that big?

What should everyone expect from Scola in the NBA?

With Scola in the Spurs we can play in the same shape for 48 minutes

Duncan can play 35 minutes and when he´s in the bench Scola can make the same Plays

He can spark the team from the bench

[hater]

I´m from Argentina, in the national Team the situation is:

Ginobili >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scola > Nocioni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oberto > Pepe > Hermmann > Delfino



fixed

[Mr. Body]

The Bulls realgm board, at least, has some guys really liking a Scola for Nocioni trade:


[I] would offer Duhon, a re-signed Nocioni and maybe a 2nd rounder for Elson, Udrih, Barry, and Scola's rights, provided we feel good about getting him over for this season. There's no long-term financial commitment there other than what we sign Scola for and we balance out the roster pretty well.

I have no idea how BYC works, but Nocioni has been informed by the team that he may be shipped around, and is excited by the idea of playing with buddies in San Antonio. I'd like to see Scola and Nocioni together (in Chicago), but it likely won't happen.

In any case, a Nocioni swap is more likely now than it has been in some time.

[mountainballer]

The Bulls realgm board, at least, has some guys really liking a Scola for Nocioni trade:


would offer Duhon, a re-signed Nocioni and maybe a 2nd rounder for Elson, Udrih, Barry, and Scola's rights, provided we feel good about getting him over for this season. There's no long-term financial commitment there other than what we sign Scola for and we balance out the roster pretty well.

I have no idea how BYC works, but Nocioni has been informed by the team that he may be shipped around, and is excited by the idea of playing with buddies in San Antonio. I'd like to see Scola and Nocioni together (in Chicago), but it likely won't happen.

In any case, a Nocioni swap is more likely now than it has been in some time.

whoever this guy is, make him the Bulls GM!
can't imagine that a fan of another team proposes to take Elson+Udrih of our hands in a Scola package and adds Duhon + a pick for this. great.

I again back-up the opinion, that the first step in a S&T is an agreement between the player and the team he wants to go to.
what the other team can offer will be next step.

we have seen S&T that brought back much less, than what the Spurs can offer. (usually unrestricted FAs, though)

Brad Miller was virtually traded for Scott Pollard.
Al Harrington was traded for a 1st round pick and cash. (at this time noone could expect that it will turn into a #11 pick)
Jamal Crawford (he was restricted) was virtually traded for Othella Harrington (Wiilams didn't play, Trybiansky was waived and Mutobo shipped to Houston)
Antoine Walker was traded for Albert Miralles (rights) and two second-round picks. (Borchard and Woods were waived)
Dampier (back then labeled best available center) was traded for Najera and 2 1st rounders.(high picks, because Dallas was already a top team)

[Mr. Body]

A guy on the realgm boards was showing this trade:


There could be some number issues though. Some of the CBA gurus on the Bulls board said that in all likelyhood, Nocioni will be BYC when he signs his new contract, which would make his outgoing trade value $3.9 mil. Here's the salary numbers of the players being thrown around in trade ideas:

Brent Barry: $5.5 mil
Francisco Elson: $3 mil
Fabricio Oberto: $2.7 mil (player option)
Beno Udrih: $1.7 mil
Jackie Butler: $2.4 mil
Luis Scola: $0
'08 1st: $0

Andres Nocioni: $3.9 mil
Chris Duhon: $3.2 mil
Viktor Khryapa: $1.9 mil
Adrian Griffin: $1.6 mil

Niether team can be 25% + $100k over what they send out in salaries, so the trades would be a little different than the Barry + Elson/Butler/Oberto + Scola's right for Nocioni deals being tossed around. If Barry is included, the deal most likely looks like this:

- Barry + Elson + Udrih + Scola's rights + '08 1st (total: $10.2 mil)
for
- Nocioni + Duhon + Khryapa (total: $9 mil)

The Bulls are going over what they're sending out, but 9 * 125% = 11.25 so it's ok. Cliff Levingston added the '08 1st to even out the deal a little for the Bulls.

In which case the Spurs take it and run far, far away. I do think Chicago requires some sweetener - the draft pick, perhaps some cash - but it does help the Bulls, despite losing one of their great hustlers. With a draft of Hawes and a new Scola, Chicago has great potential inside in the next few years, maybe sooner rather than later. And this is a far better plan than trading for Zach Randolph.

[mountainballer]

In which case the Spurs take it and run far, far away. I do think Chicago requires some sweetener - the draft pick, perhaps some cash - but it does help the Bulls, despite losing one of their great hustlers. With a draft of Hawes and a new Scola, Chicago has great potential inside in the next few years, maybe sooner rather than later. And this is a far better plan than trading for Zach Randolph.

yes, now they throw in Khryapa (a player Spurs have been watching for years) and still want only our oddments. oh yes, he wants the 2008 pick (not this years pick)
should we do it or try to lowball him by offering a 2nd rounder for the 1st rounder?

[Mr. Body]

Some crap we have laying around + a late first next year + a guy we don't even want

for

a nice backup point for one year + a decent, young SF prospect + Andres freaking Nocioni

It's comical. But this is not only a Bulls fan proposing this, but one of the respected elders of their board. This is their timvp. That's how slim this year's post-man crop is.

It's insane and I have to prepare for disappointment.

[mountainballer]

It's insane and I have to prepare for disappointment.

yes, we should keep in mind we are talking about Paxon.
(when was the last time he did a trade that clearly favoured the other team?)
hey, we are talking about the guy who sold Brian Colangelo Jackson Vroman and a future 1st rounder for Loul Deng!!! (a pick that turned out to be the #21 pick in 2005).

[Darkwaters]

A guy on the realgm boards was showing this trade:



In which case the Spurs take it and run far, far away. I do think Chicago requires some sweetener - the draft pick, perhaps some cash - but it does help the Bulls, despite losing one of their great hustlers. With a draft of Hawes and a new Scola, Chicago has great potential inside in the next few years, maybe sooner rather than later. And this is a far better plan than trading for Zach Randolph.

I take that trade in a heartbeat. I toss in this year's 33 and 58 picks too if they want them. Bring this on!

[ALVAREZ6]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Andr%C3%A9s_Nocioni.jpg/689px-Andr%C3%A9s_Nocioni.jpg

Does anyone know what car Andres is in right here?

[ChumpDumper]

Looks like he borrowed Matt's Grand Am.

[Big P]

maybe a bmw?

[Mr. Body]

Chapumobile.

[ALVAREZ6]

maybe a bmw?You don't see too many red beamers...

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

he's not coming so let's just end this thread


just look at the Spurs history, WE DON'T GET FREE AGENTS. If it wasn't for luckily landing D Rob and Duncan the Spurs wouldn't be shit


Spurs + key free agent = mathematical error

[Cherry]

he's not coming so let's just end this thread

...Riiiigggghhhttt...:nerd

[Marcus Bryant]

- Barry + Elson + Udrih + Scola's rights + '08 1st (total: $10.2 mil)
for
- Nocioni + Duhon + Khryapa (total: $9 mil)

Only Elson has been a regular in this season's rotation. Sold.

[Big P]

You don't see too many red beamers...

They are all over the place in SA. Very common color here, probably the most popular.

[exstatic]

he's not coming so let's just end this thread


just look at the Spurs history, WE DON'T GET FREE AGENTS. If it wasn't for luckily landing D Rob and Duncan the Spurs wouldn't be shit


Spurs + key free agent = mathematical error
Did you forget your pill this morning?

[ArgSpursFan]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Andr%C3%A9s_Nocioni.jpg/689px-Andr%C3%A9s_Nocioni.jpg

Does anyone know what car Andres is in right here?

It looks like an Audi A6.Not a BMW in my opinion

[Darkwaters]

As has been written here before, the Bulls’ goal this summer is to add more size to the roster without subtracting from the nucleus, which currently includes Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, Ben Wallace, Tyrus Thomas and Thabo Sefolosha.

That leaves Chris Duhon, Viktor Khryapa and a potential sign-and-trade with Andres Nocioni as the team’s primary trade bait

This was from the Daily Herald today. It seems to encourage the previous ideas of a massive Spurs/Bulls trade.

[Mr. Body]

This was from the Daily Herald today. It seems to encourage the previous ideas of a massive Spurs/Bulls trade.

It's telling that Nocioni isn't included in the 'nucleus'. I'd be surprised if Nocioni weren't traded and there stands a good chance it will be to the Spurs.

[Darkwaters]

It's telling that Nocioni isn't included in the 'nucleus'. I'd be surprised if Nocioni weren't traded and there stands a good chance it will be to the Spurs.

Heres hoping. Nocioni is just what the doctor ordered.

Now all we need to do is figure out a way to draft Rudy Fernandez.

[michaelwcho]

he's not coming so let's just end this thread


just look at the Spurs history, WE DON'T GET FREE AGENTS. If it wasn't for luckily landing D Rob and Duncan the Spurs wouldn't be shit


Spurs + key free agent = mathematical error

Were you being facetious? Brent Barry, Michael Finley, Robert Horry were not free agents?

[Mr. Body]

There are a lot of Zach Randolph trades flying around message boards where Portland gets Nocioni plus other considerations. It makes little sense. First, Paxson is smarter than spending tons of money on an overblown talent like Z-Bo with tons of weaknesses and some character issues.

But second, and by far more important, Nocioni is not under contract and cannot be dealt in a S&T to a team he does not wish to play for. Would he want to play on a young team like the Blazers, who are hardly a lock for the playoffs next year? I don't think he would, at least over a team where two of his buddies aleady play, that needs him, and has a role for him... The question is... what teams WOULD Nocioni play for?

[hater]

he's coming to the SPurs and that's that.

[timvp]

Seeing as Scola's value right now is a second round pick, it's looking less and less like a trade would happen between the Spurs and Bulls.

That said, I'm almost positive the Bulls don't bring back Nocioni unless they get him for good value. They have too much other young talent at his positions that need playing time.

[Mr. Body]

Seeing as Scola's value right now is a second round pick, it's looking less and less like a trade would happen between the Spurs and Bulls.

That said, I'm almost positive the Bulls don't bring back Nocioni unless they get him for good value. They have too much other young talent at his positions that need playing time.

According to some NBA teams, Scola's value is a second round pick. The Spurs laughed in their faces, and rightfully so. We don't yet know what the better franchises think of Scola.

Chicago bringing back Nocioni is an excellent option. It's a tough case, since no one will want to offer the MLE, knowing Chicago will simply match (and say 'thank you very much')... Nocioni probably won't sign an MLE offer, anyway - he'd just negotiate with Chicago if he wants to stay. I don't see any of the teams with cap room going after him. If Chicago doesn't find anything on the board, they'd just resign him and work from there - or is he really worth Nick Collison?

There are a slim number of teams I'm guessing he'd want to be S&Ted to, and San Antonio is near the top of the list, if not the very first. Whether Chicago finds what they want out of the Spurs in exchange remains to be seen, but their other options for post players, outside of the draft, are incredibly slim. Zach Randolph, anyone?

[hater]

Seeing as Scola's value right now is a second round pick,

you are saying that because a couple of teams offered 2nd round pick for Scola?

going by your logic, Camby's value same as Kwame Brown's? since Lakers also offered that to nuggets?


:rolleyes

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Bring in Pietrus. And trade away Beno, Brent, and Bonner.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Were you being facetious? Brent Barry, Michael Finley, Robert Horry were not free agents?




all three are old guys trying to get rings



Spurs aren't able to get young good players like Noc, WE JUST CAN'T

[Mr. Body]

Spurs aren't able to get young good players like Noc, WE JUST CAN'T

It's settled, then.

[K-State Spur]

Were you being facetious? Brent Barry, Michael Finley, Robert Horry were not free agents?

People tend to forget about Rasho too. Now, obviously he did not work out. However, he was still a player viewed with upside who was in demand by other teams and still chose the Spurs.

[Atl Spur]

I would love to get Pavlovic as a substitute for Andres!

[Darkwaters]

I would love to get Pavlovic as a substitute for Andres!


ummmm, why? Thats a horrible substitute. I'd rather have somebody that can play defense and hit their open shots. Not the other way around.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Bring in Pietrus.

[Darkwaters]

The names of current players in the league that might be brought in to replace Bowen looked something like this:

Andres Nocioni
Mickael Pietrus
James Posey
Viktor Kryhapa
Yaroslav Korolev
Travis Outlaw

Also in the draft these names have been thrown around:
Thaddeus Young (pipe dream)
Dominic McGuire
Demetris Nichols
Jared Dudley
Reyshawn Terry

Frankly, of all those names, give me Nocioni.

[fuckespn]

The names of current players in the league that might be brought in to replace Bowen looked something like this:

Andres Nocioni
Mickael Pietrus
James Posey
Viktor Kryhapa
Yaroslav Korolev
Travis Outlaw

Also in the draft these names have been thrown around:
Thaddeus Young (pipe dream)
Dominic McGuire
Demetris Nichols
Jared Dudley
Reyshawn Terry

Frankly, of all those names, give me Nocioni.

I love Noc but I'd rather have Pietrus

[Darkwaters]

I love Noc but I'd rather have Pietrus

Pietrus does not resolve our "small ball PF" problem. Otherwise I like Pietrus too.

What would you guys think of bringing back Linton Johnson? The guy had two great seasons with the Hornets and looked very good. Hes a rebounding and defensive specialist that can also score against second unit guys. But while hes really more of a SF, he spent most of last season as the backup PF for the Hornets. Add in the fact that hes an athletic nut and I think we're set. Problem is that I think the Spurs already burned their bridge with him.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Pietrus and Dudley.

[Darkwaters]

Pietrus and Dudley.

Dudley is flying up the mock drafts. Scary thing is that the 28 pick might not be good enough to grab him anymore.

[fuckespn]

I'll take pietrus and mcguire

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Dudley is flying up the mock drafts. Scary thing is that the 28 pick might not be good enough to grab him anymore.
Damn. I was thinking about drafting him with the 33. :lol And use the 28 on Pruitt.

[spurtime]

Pietrus does not resolve our "small ball PF" problem. Otherwise I like Pietrus too.

What would you guys think of bringing back Linton Johnson? The guy had two great seasons with the Hornets and looked very good. Hes a rebounding and defensive specialist that can also score against second unit guys. But while hes really more of a SF, he spent most of last season as the backup PF for the Hornets. Add in the fact that hes an athletic nut and I think we're set. Problem is that I think the Spurs already burned their bridge with him.

Linton had like 4 great games in 2 years. He was oft-injured and basically out of the rotation when West came back. I think Pietrus is ok, though he really needs to work on his handles.

[bigdog]

I acutally dont htink Nocioni would be very good with the Spurs. Pietrus would be pretty good.

[Darkwaters]

Linton had like 4 great games in 2 years. He was oft-injured and basically out of the rotation when West came back. I think Pietrus is ok, though he really needs to work on his handles.

Ummm....I've been a Hornets season ticket holder in Oklahoma City the last 2 years. I went to every game. Trust me, Linton had way more than 4 great games. The guy had a freaking double double (16 and 10) the day after he was traded without even practicing with the team. He did get knocked out of the rotation though in year 2. But Byron Scott has essentially doghoused every player on that team at some point in the last two years. I don't remember him ever being injured.

[spurtime]

Ummm....I've been a Hornets season ticket holder in Oklahoma City the last 2 years. I went to every game. Trust me, Linton had way more than 4 great games. The guy had a freaking double double (16 and 10) the day after he was traded without even practicing with the team. He did get knocked out of the rotation though in year 2. But Byron Scott has essentially doghoused every player on that team at some point in the last two years. I don't remember him ever being injured.

Here's his game log for last season...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3804

2 double digit games (10 and 12 points). This is on a team where he had every opportunity to play because there were massive injury issues. No thanks.

[Mr. Body]

I acutally dont htink Nocioni would be very good with the Spurs. Pietrus would be pretty good.

:wow

[Darkwaters]

The guy generally played about 15 minutes a game when he got time. He could consistently put up about 7 points, 6 rebounds and a few steals. Not to mention several hustle plays that don't fill up the stat sheet. Linton would not get any more than 15 mins a game in SA, but I know we would all love to get 7 and 6 every 15 mins from most players.

Why is that not a good fit? Hes not a starter. Hes more like a 10th man. And he'll be dirt cheap. But he can play the small ball PF and give us added depth. He makes perfect sense. Every player can't be a superstar. You have to have 6th, 10, and 12th men on every team. He could be a great roleplayer.

[Darkwaters]

I acutally dont htink Nocioni would be very good with the Spurs. Pietrus would be pretty good.

Nocioni would be perfect.

Pietrus would be a good fit, but many of his stats are inflated by the Warriors system anyways. To think that he'd do the same things in SA that he did in Golden State is simply foolish.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

I acutally dont htink Nocioni would be very good with the Spurs. Pietrus would be pretty good.



actually he would be perfect, but he's not coming anyway


so why sweat it?

[Marcus Bryant]

I think Nocioni would be deadly in the Spurs' rotation.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

is he an unrestricted free agent? or would there have to be a sign-in-trade?

[spurtime]

is he an unrestricted free agent? or would there have to be a sign-in-trade?

He's restricted...We could offer him the MLE at max years and even if he signed the offer sheet the Bulls would most likely match. Or, we could offer a combination of players and picks in a sign and trade which would cost more money but would be more likely to pry him away.

Noc could also accept their one year tender and become unrestricted next offseason.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

He's restricted...We could offer him the MLE at max years and even if he signed the offer sheet the Bulls would most likely match. Or, we could offer a combination of players and picks in a sign and trade which would cost more money but would be more likely to pry him away.

Noc could also accept their one year tender and become unrestricted next offseason.



yeah, Noc aint coming

[Bruno]

I acutally dont htink Nocioni would be very good with the Spurs. Pietrus would be pretty good.

Agree and disagree.

Nocioni isn't a good fit at SF for Spurs :

- He isn't a strong man to man defensive player and is quite slow. Spurs' SF must defend the best opposite SG/SF. Nocioni is more an help defender and is not well suited to defend swingmen like Bryant who are quicker than him.

- Nocioni good offensive numbers with Bulls are mainly because he is defended by slower PFs. In 06-07, Nocioni scored 22.5 pts/40min when he played with Deng and 18.4 pts/40min without him. In 05-06, 20.4pts/40min with Deng and 17.7pts/40min without him. Nocioni at SF will mainly be a spot up jump shooter.

- Nocioni at SF, even over a poor rebounder like Bruce won't improve spurs rebounding by a significant margin. When they stay big, Spurs are a top 2 defensive rebounding team in the league : Nocioni defensive rebounding ability will be quite useless. Nocioni isn't a good offensive rebounder.

I'm not at all a Pietrus fan but I think too that he can be better than Nocioni as Spurs' SF. Nocioni is a better shooter but Pietrus is a better defender.

However, Nocioni is a great fit as small ball PF. Against Spurs biggest rivals (Mavs and Suns), he will be really usefull in small ball lineups. Nocioni is strong enough to defend PFs like Dirk, spread the floor, can use mismatch on the offensive end and is a good rebounder.

Nocioni will be way better at PF than SF in Spurs system. If Spurs get him, I hope it won't be to use him mainly at SF.

[whottt]

Pop started Danny Ferry at the SF position during the 2001 season...the Spurs had the best record in the NBA.

If Ferry can do it...Nocioni can do it. He's got more physical tools than Ferry and he's a better offensive player as well. And Ferry was like 35 when Pop did that.

I am not convinced Nocioni can't fit in on the Spurs...I think he'd fit in quite well.

The Bulls have been an elite defensive team since he has been on that team...even Pop has said they play just about the best D in the NBA, for a while now.


I'd love to have Nocioni in a Spurs uni.

[WalterBenitez]

Chapu could keep away of the zone to many b...s we got in the western ... period.

[Atl Spur]

San Antonio as a team teach GREAT TEAM DEFENSE! Pavlovic would be no worse than anybody we have on this team except for bruce,tim and maybe manu. Team defense is what we stress here. Don't kid yourself this kid Pavlovic might flourish in a system that would provide him options to drive or shoot; he can do both you know! Tim Duncan would make him a younger,bigger manu.(he doe's seem to be really competitive!)

[ArgSpursFan]

I heard nocioni on an intervew for an Arg.sport channel,and He was saying that He thinks that the spurs play the best ball in the NBA,and He also said that He would love to play with Tim Duncan,the best big man of all times as he said.(wow)

[Darkwaters]

I heard nocioni on an intervew for an Arg.sport channel,and He was saying that He thinks that the spurs play the best ball in the NBA,and He also said that He would love to play with Tim Duncan,the best big man of all times as he said.(wow)

That sounds like a resounding endorsement. Frankly, I think Nocioni can push to be sent to San Antonio and force Chicago's hand. It's obvious he is open to coming here, but it just depends on how bad he wants that.

[ArgSpursFan]

Nocioni knows how Pop likes Argies players,+He knows that the starting SF in the team will problably play for another 2 years and them retire.I think If He leaves Chicago,San Antonio will be the one and only team he would play for.

[nkdlunch]

Nocioni is a smart man. He wants an NBA ring to go with his gold medal. its a nobrainer. It will be all up to Bulls management. They appreicate him, so if they decide to let him go, they should let him go to the Spurs

[Mr. Body]

Question is, what's the right package for Nocioni?

Other than filler, Scola + 2008 1st?

No matter what, it feels the Spurs are getting the good end of the deal. Chicago could use Butler, but Barry doesn't do a whole lot for them, although he has to be there for salary purposes. I wonder if another team could get involved.

[thousandth]

Nocioni is a smart man. He wants an NBA ring to go with his gold medal. its a nobrainer. It will be all up to Bulls management. They appreicate him, so if they decide to let him go, they should let him go to the Spurs

Very, very smart man. I like much Nocioni. He's more better player than Scola.

Nocioni in the Spurs!!! NOW!

[ArgSpursFan]

Question is, what's the right package for Nocioni?

Other than filler, Scola + 2008 1st?

No matter what, it feels the Spurs are getting the good end of the deal. Chicago could use Butler, but Barry doesn't do a whole lot for them, although he has to be there for salary purposes. I wonder if another team could get involved.

Menphis.Chicago wants Gasol,and The grizzlies may like some Bulls players

[Mr. Body]

Menphis.Chicago wants Gasol,and The grizzlies may like some Bulls players

If Chicago wants and can get Gasol, they won't need Scola. But Gasol is too expensive - they're asking for Deng + the moon, and Luol plays an important part in the Bulls' future.

What I meant was whether another team might want Brent Barry and get involved to move another player to Chicago in exchange.

[Darkwaters]

If Chicago wants and can get Gasol, they won't need Scola. But Gasol is too expensive - they're asking for Deng + the moon, and Luol plays an important part in the Bulls' future.

What I meant was whether another team might want Brent Barry and get involved to move another player to Chicago in exchange.

Well, any team thats looking for 3 point shooting, veteran help, or expiring contracts would possibly want Barry. If Udrih is tossed in the mix then we can include a team desiring a young PG. I think two teams that might have some interest are the Clippers and Bobcats. The Clippers would love to have Barry and Beno with their PG issues looming. Plus, Barry's 3 point shooting is a much needed asset for them. The Bobcats are usually in need of salary to fill out their roster and wouldn't mind a young player to replace Brevin Knight and a veteran to help level them out. But what do these two teams have that the Bulls would want? I have no idea. Primoz Brezec?

[Switchman]

JUST FOUND THIS FORUM BUT I HAVE BEEN TELLING EVERYONE I KNOW FOR THE PAST 6 MONTHS THAT WE NEEEEEEEED NOCIONI. He'd be the perfect fit. I'll be crossing my fingers the entire offseason.

[yavozerb]

I think I found a third team for this trade to happen..
SA gets nocioni and 2nd round pick from clev.
Chi gets scola
Clev gets barry and beno or duhon
Possible draft picks could be thrown in somewhere, but I think this would help all three teams..

[spurscenter]

how much does he cost?

[SenorSpur]

Agree and disagree.

Nocioni isn't a good fit at SF for Spurs :

- He isn't a strong man to man defensive player and is quite slow. Spurs' SF must defend the best opposite SG/SF. Nocioni is more an help defender and is not well suited to defend swingmen like Bryant who are quicker than him.

- Nocioni good offensive numbers with Bulls are mainly because he is defended by slower PFs. In 06-07, Nocioni scored 22.5 pts/40min when he played with Deng and 18.4 pts/40min without him. In 05-06, 20.4pts/40min with Deng and 17.7pts/40min without him. Nocioni at SF will mainly be a spot up jump shooter.

- Nocioni at SF, even over a poor rebounder like Bruce won't improve spurs rebounding by a significant margin. When they stay big, Spurs are a top 2 defensive rebounding team in the league : Nocioni defensive rebounding ability will be quite useless. Nocioni isn't a good offensive rebounder.

I'm not at all a Pietrus fan but I think too that he can be better than Nocioni as Spurs' SF. Nocioni is a better shooter but Pietrus is a better defender.

However, Nocioni is a great fit as small ball PF. Against Spurs biggest rivals (Mavs and Suns), he will be really usefull in small ball lineups. Nocioni is strong enough to defend PFs like Dirk, spread the floor, can use mismatch on the offensive end and is a good rebounder.

Nocioni will be way better at PF than SF in Spurs system. If Spurs get him, I hope it won't be to use him mainly at SF.


That's what I was hoping someone would address - the comparisons between Nocioni and Pietrus. I thought Pietrus had an edge on him defensively. No question that Andres is the better shooter.

It will be interesting to see what the Spurs will do at that spot.

[ArgSpursFan]

The Thing with Nocioni is that,He aint real real fast,I don´t agree on that He aint a good Defender,He´s probably as good as Manu,as a perimetral Defender,but just a litle slower tham manu.But the guy is real good Offensively and Defensively on the post,He jumps real high and knows how to use his body.
To guard a guy like Dirk,I think Nocioni has a edge over Pietrus,+he can Be more productive on the offensive end with his outside shot and posting on smaller or lighters SFs.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

The Thing with Nocioni is that,He aint real real fast,I don´t agree on that He aint a good Defender,He´s probably as good as Manu,as a perimetral Defender,but just a litle slower tham manu.But the guy is real good Offensively and Defensively on the post,He jumps real high and knows how to use his body.
To guard a guy like Dirk,I think Nocioni has a edge over Pietrus,+he can Be more productive on the offensive end with his outside shot and posting on smaller or lighters SFs.



neither have a chance in hell of being a Spurs


especially with this Lakers/Bulls trade supposedly involving Noc

[Big P]

I think I found a third team for this trade to happen..
SA gets nocioni and 2nd round pick from clev.
Chi gets scola
Clev gets barry and beno or duhon
Possible draft picks could be thrown in somewhere, but I think this would help all three teams..

Chicago would have to get more salary back. As you have it, they give up Nocioni & Duhon & get only Scola in return, besides having to make the salaries match up, I'm sure Chicago would want other players & picks for Nocioni. Nocioni signed at $6 mil a year & Duhon is making $3.5 for next year, & Scolas rights dont have any monetary value, so about $9 mil in salaries would need to get to Chicago somehow.