Would we have won that 1995 conf.finals against Houston with Duncan instead of DRob?

[BigShotBob]

With all this talk about Duncan in the national media now being recognized as one of the greatest ever (Although we already knew that. :fro ) I was wondering, what do you think about that series and replacing the Admiral with Duncan. Obviously, with the twin towers together we would have gone all the way, but only going with Duncan instead of Robinson, and given the same obstacles David Robinson had such as less talent around him and some questionable coaching, do you think Duncan still would have pulled it off? That series always was one of my most painful playoff memories until Fisher hit his lucky shot. I can't see Duncan being schooled by Olajuwon as much as Robinson was at times.

[timvp]

Houston.

The difference in that series was the Rockets had some of the clutchest shooters to ever play the game. The Spurs had Vinny Del Negro.

Series over.

[baseline bum]

I think probably not. Whenever Duncan's shooters miss, the Spurs have trouble winning big games.... and if there's one thing AJ and Del Negro did in the playoffs, it was miss jump shots.

[BigShotBob]

Vinny and AJ should probably thank DRob that they ever had careers to begin with. :toast

[baseline bum]

In contrast, if you gave David guys like Finley and Bowen, he might have been able to pull that series out.

[spurs1990]

Wasn't Rodman the reason SA lost...I remember him quitting in game 5 or 6.

[baseline bum]

Wasn't Rodman the reason SA lost...I remember him quitting in game 5 or 6.

It was a lot earlier than that. I don't remember game 1 too well other than Horry's shot and Sean's FTs, but Rodman was an ass in game 2. He shot three threes in the first quarter and let Horry shit all over him in transition, which got his no hustle ass pulled early.

[mardigan]

Who would have horry?

[judaspriestess]

No way, Robinson couldn't do everything himself. Olajuwon was in a zone, simply had a better supporting cast and had the experience.

[SilverPlayer]

If Pop had been coach instead of Bob Hill, DRob would have had a better chance. Pop knew at least how to double team. I'm not sure it would have been enough...I also think Rodman and Pop would have had a better relationship which may have made a difference to how much Rodman contributed. Rodman could have played better had he been motivated.

We came closer to beating the Rockets than a lot of people give Robinson credit for.

[whottt]

Yeah...

I was going to ask that...

Would the 94-95 Spurs have won the Championship with Pop as coach?


I'd have loved to see Rodman try pull the shit he pulled on Hill, with Pop...

That cocksucker would still be waiting to get off the bench...

[Mr. Body]

Exactly. If Rodman is kept in line - a firmer grip would work - it might have been a different series. Add a defensive mindset rather than whatever the Spurs had back then (the Softness).

[tmtcsc]

If Pop was Coach ? Yeah, I think we would have had a better chance to win. We won 2 road games in that series. It sucked that we didn't take advantage of Sean's advantage over Horry. Horry couldn't guard him and we didn't exploit it. JMO

[whottt]

So are we saying now that Pop>Duncan?;)


Question.

[florige]

Yeah thats what I'm thinking. There is no way that Duncan could stop Hakeem with single coverage that year, he was just on another planet. But like someone else said Pop would have more than likely threw different looks at him and not kept one guy on him just because he was the D-Specialist. Not saying for sure that we would had won, but I def feel we wouldn't had lost all those home games.

[florige]

Yeah...

I was going to ask that...

Would the 94-95 Spurs have won the Championship with Pop as coach?


I'd have loved to see Rodman try pull the shit he pulled on Hill, with Pop...

That cocksucker would still be waiting to get off the bench...



:smokin Best post of thread so far. :lol

[bobbyjoe]

Yeah thats what I'm thinking. There is no way that Duncan could stop Hakeem with single coverage that year, he was just on another planet. But like someone else said Pop would have more than likely threw different looks at him and not kept one guy on him just because he was the D-Specialist. Not saying for sure that we would had won, but I def feel we wouldn't had lost all those home games.

Of course the Spurs would have a better chance because Duncan was a better player than David Robinson.

[timvp]

Yeah...

I was going to ask that...

Would the 94-95 Spurs have won the Championship with Pop as coach?


I'd have loved to see Rodman try pull the shit he pulled on Hill, with Pop...

That cocksucker would still be waiting to get off the bench...

Pop wouldn't have been enough. Maybe Pop and a non-choking Chuck Person and one of the shooters from today and there'd be a decent shot.

Especially because AJ was the fiercest competitor of them all. :smokin

[SpursIndonesia]

Not without a second creator playing alongside TD (Manu or Tony). Elliot's pretty good wing player, but he wasn't a creator. TD won the champ in 99 without another creator because the Spurs were a defensive juggernaut back then -with an allstar C in DRob still playing effectively offensively & defensively.

Just TD with a bunch of shooter and sucking PG like Avery wouldn't get the job done IMHO, not against that clucth Rocket team with onfire Olajuwon in it.

[wildbill2u]

Anyone who saw Hakeem take DRob (himself one of the all time top 50 and a quick defensive all-star) to school and embarass DRob in that series would admit that Tim, a much less athletic and mobile player, would have had even more problems with the Dream's footwork.

[florige]

Anyone who saw Hakeem take DRob (himself one of the all time top 50 and a quick defensive all-star) to school and embarass DRob in that series would admit that Tim, a much less athletic and mobile player, would have had even more problems with the Dream's footwork.


Nobody was stopping Hakeem that year in single coverage. Hill just kept Robinson on him the entire time and Hakeem just took him to school the entire time. As Robinson said Hakeem was "phenomenal". But we also had some terrible shooters, Elliott could only drive to one side, AJ couldn't shoot from the outside, Del Negro.... The thing I see maybe with Duncan is that he could probably score a little more consistently than Robinson down in the post and would probably make Hakeem work some on the defensive end. But that being said Rudy T more than likely would have had Horry assume most defensive assignments on Duncan rather than Hakeem to keep him out of foul trouble.

[Don Quixote]

The 1995 team overachieved. I think that's why it broke everyone's heart when they came so close and failed.

And I hate to bust a myth, but it's not like David pulled a Dirk in that series. Didn't he average 23 pts, 9 boards, and ? assists against a solid Rockets team?

We lost because Hakeem was out of his mind, and having Rodman on the team finally caught up with them. And ... they had Mario Elie, Sam Cassell, Kenny the Jet Smith, Vernon Maxwell (dude could shoot), and Big Shot Bob. We had Vinny Del Negro.

[Don Quixote]

Gosh, I loved the 1995 team, though. Should have been our first title. David & co. were good enough to win it. They just ran into a very good team that got hot and were led by a Top 10 player in his prime.

[DarrinS]

I don't think anyone could stop Hakeem in that series. C'mon, a center that makes fadeaway baseline hooks?

AND, they had clutch 3-point shooters.

I'm not sure we could be them now.

[Vito Corleone]

If Pop was Coach ? Yeah, I think we would have had a better chance to win. We won 2 road games in that series. It sucked that we didn't take advantage of Sean's advantage over Horry. Horry couldn't guard him and we didn't exploit it. JMO

Bingo

The weakness of that team was Bob Hill

[florige]

I don't think anyone could stop Hakeem in that series. C'mon, a center that makes fadeaway baseline hooks?

AND, they had clutch 3-point shooters.

I'm not sure we could be them now.




:lol Wouldn't be a walk in the park I'll tell you that much.

[gtownspur]

The best Guard Hakeem had the privelege of worrying about penetrating and creating during his run was John Starks and Vinny.


Tims has been Kobe, Kidd, Nash, Iverson, Marbury..and he still had his assignment in guarding Amare, Martin, Shaq, Garnett.

I'd say Tim Duncan did a hella of a lotta Good on the defensive end, his teams have been at the top of the NBA in fewest opponent ppg.



IF TIM Duncan was in the 90's his team would have been the best in the league in DEfense and that alone would put him on all Nba Defensive 1st team.

[gtownspur]

1.People are forgetting that those games weren't blowouts, they were close.

2. The Spurs could of now could beat the Rockets then, Duncan wouldn't have bit on those pumpfakes, and bowen would have made cassell shit his panties, no one would have stopped parker and Ginobilli and we'd let Hakeem have his way and shut down everyone else. That's what we do now, if we had that mentality then, it be another story.

3. GIve Hakeem a cast of Johnson, elliot, and Vinny and Hakeem would have been stuck in the regular season.

[Extra Stout]

So are we saying now that Pop>Duncan?;)


Question.

Tim Duncan = Hall of Fame big man
David Robinson = Hall of Fame big man

Gregg Popovich = Hall of Fame coach
Bob Hill = John Edwards of coaching

It's a much bigger upgrade.

[Go For Tree]

Houston.

The difference in that series was the Rockets had some of the clutchest shooters to ever play the game. The Spurs had Vinny Del Negro.

Series over.


recently changed his name to vinny del misso. we probably still would have lost even with teemy. they had hakeem so thats a wash. but they had kenny the jet and we had the "little general". they had sam cassell off the bench and we had......... no one.

[TheTruth]

Hakeem THE Dream???

[Extra Stout]

It speaks to the greatness of David Robinson that a team with all those jokers could go 62-20 in the first place.

[TheTruth]

It speaks to the greatness of David Robinson that a team with all those jokers could go 62-20 in the first place.
But we had Vinny Del Negro and Dennis Rodman..

[gtownspur]

Vinny Del Negro= Kobe.

[FromWayDowntown]

And I hate to bust a myth, but it's not like David pulled a Dirk in that series. Didn't he average 23 pts, 9 boards, and ? assists against a solid Rockets team?

David went for 23.8 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.2 bpg, 2.7 apg, 1.5 spg, while shooting 47% from the field (44-93) and 78% from the line (55-71).

By comparison, though, Olajuwon averaged 35.3 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 4.2 bpg, 5.0 apg, while shooting 56% from the field (93-166) and 81% from the line (25-31).


The 1995 team overachieved. I think that's why it broke everyone's heart when they came so close and failed.

It was a team that had a monsterous run in the latter part of the season and was able to squeak out some victories over good and mediocre opponents to develop a gaudy record and clinch HCA. I still think that 94-95 team was one built to win in the regular season, but one that was flawed in terms of being a championship contender, mostly because it had an older and unreliable bench.

David's two biggest supporting cast members, Sean Elliott and Avery Johnson, each played pretty well from a statistical standpoint. Elliott was in double figures in every game (he averaged 17.0 ppg for the series) and shot better than 50% from the floor in Games 1, 3, 4, and 5. Of course, some of that was negated in Game 1 when Sean missed his FT's at the end.

AJ was in double figures in 5 of the 6 games -- and got to 20 points twice, in games 3 and 5 -- shot 54% from the floor. He had a 45-7 assists to turnover ratio, too.

As others have alluded to, though, things go pretty precipitously downhill from there. Rodman had games of 12 points and 19 rebounds (12 offensive) and 14 points and 17 rebounds; but he threw in that glorious Game 2 with his 3 first quarter 3PTA.

DelNegro was night-and-day in that series. In the Spurs 2 wins, he shot 14-29 from the floor, 4-8 from 3, 7-7 from the line and put up 19 points in each while throwing in 4 and 5 assists to boot. But in the Spurs 4 losses, he shot 12-30 from the floor, 1-2 from 3, 5-7 from the line and scored a total of 30 points (8 less than he totaled in the 2 wins) and added a total of 8 assists (1 less than he managed in the 2 wins).

The Spurs bench was just abysmal in that series, too.

Person shot 9-28 from the floor (32%) and 5-16 from 3 (31.3%).

Doc Rivers shot 19-47 from the floor (40%) and 8-21 from 3 (38%) while handing out a total of 5 assists, three of which he managed in the Spurs' Game 2 loss at home.

J.R. Reid averaged 2 ppg and 2.7 rpg as Rodman's primary backup.

Terry Cummings got half as many minutes, but put up 4.3 ppg and shot 53% from the floor, but didn't even rebound as well as Reid.

When the aggregate production from your 4 main bench guys is that bad, you're not going to win many late round playoff series. Period.


We lost because Hakeem was out of his mind, and having Rodman on the team finally caught up with them. And ... they had Mario Elie, Sam Cassell, Kenny the Jet Smith, Vernon Maxwell (dude could shoot), and Big Shot Bob. We had Vinny Del Negro.

The Rockets' production was more timely than anything else. When they needed something, they got it. Their numbers aren't fantastic as a whole for that series -- Drexler was under 20 ppg and shot under 45% from the floor and about 21% from 3; Horry shot 42% from the floor; Cassell shot 35% from the floor and 22% from 3; Smith shot 41% from the floor, but 54% from 3; and Elie shot 48% from the floor and 50% from 3. But when they had to have a game, they had groups of guys step up and play well.

In Game 2, Olajuwon put up 41 points and 16 boards. But Horry shot 8-15 from the floor and 5-9 from three to get them an additional 21. Add in 23 from Drexler, and they were well on their way.

In Game 5, which I still think was the killer game in the series, Olajuwon got 42 points, but Horry gave them 14 points, 13 rebounds (including 6 offensive boards), and 4 steals. In that same game, Cassell gave them 30 points, 12 assists, and 3 steals. They didn't need much beyond that.

[tlongII]

Would the Rockets have won any titles if MJ didn't decide to play baseball?

[Don Quixote]

David went for 23.8 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.2 bpg, 2.7 apg, 1.5 spg, while shooting 47% from the field (44-93) and 78% from the line (55-71).

By comparison, though, Olajuwon averaged 35.3 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 4.2 bpg, 5.0 apg, while shooting 56% from the field (93-166) and 81% from the line (25-31).



It was a team that had a monsterous run in the latter part of the season and was able to squeak out some victories over good and mediocre opponents to develop a gaudy record and clinch HCA. I still think that 94-95 team was one built to win in the regular season, but one that was flawed in terms of being a championship contender, mostly because it had an older and unreliable bench.

David's two biggest supporting cast members, Sean Elliott and Avery Johnson, each played pretty well from a statistical standpoint. Elliott was in double figures in every game (he averaged 17.0 ppg for the series) and shot better than 50% from the floor in Games 1, 3, 4, and 5. Of course, some of that was negated in Game 1 when Sean missed his FT's at the end.

AJ was in double figures in 5 of the 6 games -- and got to 20 points twice, in games 3 and 5 -- shot 54% from the floor. He had a 45-7 assists to turnover ratio, too.

As others have alluded to, though, things go pretty precipitously downhill from there. Rodman had games of 12 points and 19 rebounds (12 offensive) and 14 points and 17 rebounds; but he threw in that glorious Game 2 with his 3 first quarter 3PTA.

DelNegro was night-and-day in that series. In the Spurs 2 wins, he shot 14-29 from the floor, 4-8 from 3, 7-7 from the line and put up 19 points in each while throwing in 4 and 5 assists to boot. But in the Spurs 4 losses, he shot 12-30 from the floor, 1-2 from 3, 5-7 from the line and scored a total of 30 points (8 less than he totaled in the 2 wins) and added a total of 8 assists (1 less than he managed in the 2 wins).

The Spurs bench was just abysmal in that series, too.

Person shot 9-28 from the floor (32%) and 5-16 from 3 (31.3%).

Doc Rivers shot 19-47 from the floor (40%) and 8-21 from 3 (38%) while handing out a total of 5 assists, three of which he managed in the Spurs' Game 2 loss at home.

J.R. Reid averaged 2 ppg and 2.7 rpg as Rodman's primary backup.

Terry Cummings got half as many minutes, but put up 4.3 ppg and shot 53% from the floor, but didn't even rebound as well as Reid.

When the aggregate production from your 4 main bench guys is that bad, you're not going to win many late round playoff series. Period.



The Rockets' production was more timely than anything else. When they needed something, they got it. Their numbers aren't fantastic as a whole for that series -- Drexler was under 20 ppg and shot under 45% from the floor and about 21% from 3; Horry shot 42% from the floor; Cassell shot 35% from the floor and 22% from 3; Smith shot 41% from the floor, but 54% from 3; and Elie shot 48% from the floor and 50% from 3. But when they had to have a game, they had groups of guys step up and play well.

In Game 2, Olajuwon put up 41 points and 16 boards. But Horry shot 8-15 from the floor and 5-9 from three to get them an additional 21. Add in 23 from Drexler, and they were well on their way.

In Game 5, which I still think was the killer game in the series, Olajuwon got 42 points, but Horry gave them 14 points, 13 rebounds (including 6 offensive boards), and 4 steals. In that same game, Cassell gave them 30 points, 12 assists, and 3 steals. They didn't need much beyond that.

Thanks for putting some numbers to my statements. The point is, the 95 Spurs probably overachieved and ran into a good Houston team that got hot in the playoffs. And while Hakeem had the series of his life, it's not like David pulled a Dirk and choked or disappeared. He played pretty well himself.

[michaelwcho]

Of course the Spurs would have a better chance because Duncan was a better player than David Robinson.
True dat. I remember that Olajawon would score and draw fouls on Robinson, but they had a stiff guarding Robinson and the Admiral couldn't hold serve (Chucky something). Duncan would have a) played better D, b) caused more havoc on O. Whether that would translate to a win, I don't know.

[Ghost Writer]

No.

Duncan is less athletic than Robinson, and Olajuwon's soccer/ballet moves made the Admiral look lost.

:cooldevil

[ShoogarBear]

Who cares!!! Stop living in the past!!! :madrun

[/New Age Spurs Fan]

[Budkin]

Olajuwon + monster 3s = Spurs loss. Houston was on a mission and would not be denied.