Centers of Attention

[timvp]

With the Spurs traveling to Utah, that means one thing -- expect Mehmet Okur to show up. When playing in Salt Lake City, the guy is a Spurs killer supreme.

On the other side of the coin, Fabricio Oberto had perhaps his two worst games of the season at Utah. In two games at what used to be the Delta Center, Oberto put up the following stats:

43 Minutes
0 Points
1 Rebound
0 Blocks
5 Fouls

While Oberto has been fabulous in the playoffs so far, Salt Lake hasn't been kind to him so far this year. One rebound in 43 minutes while the Spurs were being murdered on the boards was scary bad. Needless to say, he'll need to bring a much better effort in this game.

Okur, on the other hand, has been the Salt Lake City assassin. In his last game against the Spurs in Utah, Okur had 31 points and 11 rebounds while only shooting 14 shots. He had ten points in the final two minutes to turn a tie game into an easy Jazz victory. In the other game this season, Okur hit the last field goal to put the Jazz ahead for good.

In the 2004-05 championship season, Okur was Spurs kryptonite. He had the game winning tip in at the buzzer while scoring 23 points and pulling in 11 rebounds off the bench in the first game in Utah that season. In the other game at Salt Lake City, he had 26 points, 15 rebounds and another game winning tip in -- this time with two seconds left.

So basically, Okur has beaten the Spurs late in the fourth quarter in four out of the last five games played in Utah. I don't think anyone else in the NBA has had that much success against the Spurs in the Tim Duncan era. Players have hit game winning shots against the Spurs, but not in four out of five games.

In this playoff run, Okur has played decidedly better at home. Oberto has been horrible in Utah so far this season.

It's time to buck the trend. Oberto needs to keep showing the playoff chutzpah that has turned him into a vital piece of the Spurs puzzle. Don't let Okur have open shots, especially late. Brush aside the physical play and concentrate on the lone goal.

Victory.

Believe.

1.

[Bruno]

Brent will save us tonight.
He likes the pressure and hostile crowds. :)

[Leetonidas]

I think Finley is going to go off tonight

[whottt]

Be prepared for the Jazz to take the physicality of this series up a notch...

Everyone is having this respect on for Sloane...I hated that dude in the 90's....you will too if this team has learned to clog the paint like the old Jazz teams. And this team is too slow defensively to do anything else IMO...

We will definitely need shooting in this part of the series IMO.


I expect the guys who shoot better when their adrenaline is pumping to step up here, Horry and Barry(provided Pop lets them on the court)..

[FromWayDowntown]

Brent will save us tonight.
He likes the pressure and hostile crowds. :)

I'd be satisfied if Brent would bother to score tonight. It would be a step in the right direction for a road game.

I would imagine that one thing the Jazz have been working on is keeping track of Oberto and trying to ensure that he doesn't get behind the defense. He's something like 12-15 in this series from the floor. Giving the Spurs an extra 12-14 points per night by giving Oberto easy layups is a formula for getting beaten badly. I'd anticipate a correction by Sloan.

Still, Oberto can be valuable to the Spurs if he can find a way to either rebound himself or to facilitate rebounding for Duncan and others by boxing out well and being active. If the Spurs can stay close on the glass, they have a great chance to win. Oberto is vital to that effort, I think.

I don't think Oberto gets intimidated by big games or by hostile environments. But his production has to reflect that tonight.

It's there for the taking.

1.

[spurschick]

Props to timvp for using the word "chutzpah". :hat

[timvp]

I expect the guys who shoot better when their adrenaline is pumping to step up here, Horry and Barry(provided Pop lets them on the court)..

Does Barry's blood only pump at home? :hat

[td4mvp21]

The Spurs are going to have to be money from the perimeter. And I'm a little worried because Utah purposely puts too much air in the basketballs up there. Plus, the crowd will be rowdy. And the Spurs usually start off slow and finish strong, so that will allow the crowd to get into it from the beginning. And we are 0-8 all-time in the playoffs at Utah. Not too much going for the Spurs. If we win, it will fell so good :fro.

[whottt]

Does Barry's blood only pump at home? :hat


No...Barry only gets on the court at home....on the road he gets 5 minute spurts, unless the Spurs are getting blown out by 20...


Cut a man's limited minutes in half....don't expect him to play better.

21 in the reg season...11 in the post. Barry has always responded similarly to reduced minutes...from day 1.

[td4mvp21]

No...Barry only gets on the court at home....on the road he gets 5 minute spurts, unless the Spurs are getting blown out by 20...


Cut a man's limited minutes in half....don't expect him to play better.

21 in the reg season...11 in the post. Barry has always responded similarly to reduced minutes...from day 1.
He doesn't get minutes because he still has yet to prove himself as a consistent road warrior. Pop's not going to waste his time with someone like that in a playoff game. Maybe during the regular season, but not during the playoffs.

[bobbyjoe]

Utah is a team that doesnt defend the 3 pointer or perimeter too well. They love to plug the paint but have had a lot of defensive breakdowns the first 2 games with guys out of position resulting in some very easy shots for SA.

They just do not match up well with San Antone. Okur is too weak defensively to guard Duncan and he gets worn down from having to guard a guy like Duncan or Yao and then can't bring it offensively. You can't switch Boozer to Duncan because he's undersized and supbar defensively.

Deron is terrific but can't stay with Parker off the dribble. Then Utah's wings like Giricek and Harpring and Fish are too slow to stay with Manu.

This series had sweep written all over it from the getgo. The league needs to fast foward to Spurs-Pistons because these conference finals are just mismatches (Detroit has played like complete crap and still up 2-0).

[T Park]

Its 05 all over again.

Justifying Barry's choking.


All Barry has to do when in there, is be agressive, and shoot when open.

Its been said countless to millions of times, that barry has a perpetual Green light when in the damn game.

Bring it tonight Fabi and Barry :tu

[whottt]

He doesn't get minutes because he still has yet to prove himself as a consistent road warrior. Pop's not going to waste his time with someone like that in a playoff game. Maybe during the regular season, but not during the playoffs.


The best playoff game of Barry's career came on the road...in the biggest playoff game of his career...

Pop just plays more conservative on the road...period.....and when Pop gets conservative...weak defenders don't get on the court.

[whottt]

Its 05 all over again.

Justifying Barry's choking.


All Barry has to do when in there, is be agressive, and shoot when open.

Its been said countless to millions of times, that barry has a perpetual Green light when in the damn game.

Bring it tonight Fabi and Barry :tu


How can you choke when you don't get on the court in the 4th?

Not compatible.


Choking is what Michael Finley does when he's got the last shot of an elimination game...time and time and time again.

[whottt]

And BTW...Barry's minutes weren't cut this time because of his play...they were cut due to injury.

[td4mvp21]

The best playoff game of Barry's career came on the road...in the biggest playoff game of his career...

Pop just plays more conservative on the road...period.....and when Pop gets conservative...weak defenders don't get on the court.

So one game makes up for everything else? One game defines a player? I remember that game, Game 1 of the 2005 WCF's against Phoenix. He did good that game. Name another game on the road of that magnitude when he performed well.

True about Pop. But in Barry's case, I think it has to do with his shooting too.

[whottt]

I swear...if Duncan was 0-2 and Pop pulled him after 5 minutes and he didn't get on the court again...

You guys would say, "Pop pulled Duncan because he was choking".

Coming in an getting 2 shots is not choking...that's not even getting warmed up.

[timvp]

Barry was averaging more minutes on the road than at home coming into this round. Even if you factor out garbage time.

Next.

[whottt]

So one game makes up for everything else? One game defines a player? I remember that game, Game 1 of the 2005 WCF's against Phoenix. He did good that game. Name another game on the road of that magnitude when he performed well.

True about Pop. But in Barry's case, I think it has to do with his shooting too.



How many other times has he been on the court in that situation to do that?

Barry was like 0-3 before that quarter...Barry doesn't get the quarter to do that...

Consequently, he goes out there trying to make every shot when he takes it, and he doesn't play his game.

It's not brain surgery...Pop did the same thing to Kerr...Kerr finally got used to it. He finally learned how to come in off the bench and shoot 1000...

That's hard to do...it took the greatest 3 shooter in history to do it.

[timvp]

Oh and Barry's biggest game of his career wasn't against a team the Spurs should have swept.

Produce in one of the following two games and shut up the critics. That's all I'm asking.

[td4mvp21]

How many other times has he been on the court in that situation to do that?

Barry was like 0-3 before that quarter...Barry doesn't get the quarter to do that...

Consequently, he goes out there trying to make every shot when he takes it, and he doesn't play his game.

It's not brain surgery...Pop did the same thing to Kerr...Kerr finally got used to it.

Try the '05 playoffs, when he was practically our 7th best player on the team, maybe even better than 7th. He still did not deliver with "big games". He had maybe 1 or 2 threes, and porous defense. He's not a good road player.

[T Park]

Choking is what Michael Finley does when he's got the last shot of an elimination game...time and time and time again

Finley has been one of the clutchest shooters in these damn playoffs.

Look at the friggen games they've won, and see how many HUGE threes Finley has nailed.

your silly hatred of Finley has gotten to a point of stupidity.


Barry only gets two shots, cause hes too damn fucking scared to take the ball to the hole and be agressive.

Nothing Pops doing.

[Solid D]

Good points, timvp. I noticed that the Spurs made a concentrated effort to keep Okur from getting off...particularly at the arc. Pop called an immediate timeout in game 2 when Elson failed to get out and contest Okur on the left wing. Parker even barked at Francisco after the play, reacting as though he'd just broken a cardinal rule.

It appears the Spurs are fine with Boozer getting his points.

I also think the Spurs will have to make sure they provide better baseline help when D. Williams runs the left side screen/roll and pushes free to the hole. That play helped the Jazz get back into game 1.

[whottt]

Oh and Barry's biggest game of his career wasn't against a team the Spurs should have swept.

Produce in one of the following two games and shut up the critics. That's all I'm asking.
\




Put him on the court to do it...is all I am asking.


Doesn't happen...and you know it...

Consequently he goes 0-2 in limited miniutes, you say he choked, and you back Pop's decision to not even let him on hte court to do the Phoenix thing again.

[T Park]

I think comparing the regular season games to the play now is a bit of a misnomer.

Oberto has probobly had 1 maybe 2 bad games these playoffs.

Also, Oberto is playing at a really high level.


Also he plays alot better with Ginobili on the floor, and in one of those games, Ginobili was out with a back injury.

[T Park]

Put him on the court to do it...is all I am asking.

Be agressive and not play hot potato with the damn ball.

thats all were asking.

[whottt]

Try the '05 playoffs, when he was practically our 7th best player on the team, maybe even better than 7th. He still did not deliver with "big games". He had maybe 1 or 2 threes, and porous defense. He's not a good road player.



We won a championship...

When he's on the court, and he gets to play, he does stuff, even if he doesn't score...he gets others players going offensively...

And if you can't see that? You don't know basketball.

No other guard on this team gets other players better looks at the basket, and finds them...

Pop just doesn't particularly like that...luckily, Barry was the only option in 05...and it helped us win a title...

Unfortunately, he wasn't the only option last year...check out what Finley did in the clutch of game 7.

[td4mvp21]

Choking is what Michael Finley does when he's got the last shot of an elimination game...time and time and time again.

:lmao I almost missed this dumbass statement. 8-9 from three point land against Denver in Game 5 isn't clutch? Including several in the fourth? How about against Phoenix in Game 6, when he hit several threes in the third and fourth quarters to help the Spurs close out the Suns? Or last year, against the Mavs when he hit the three in the fourth to put us up by two in Game 4? I could go on and on and on.

[td4mvp21]

We won a championship...

When he's on the court, and he gets to play, he does stuff, even if he doesn't score...he gets others players going offensively...

And if you can't see that? You don't know basketball.

No other guard on this team gets other players better looks at the basket.
Right, but we're talking about his shooting, no? And his shooting doesn't get it done. So all of that other stuff (by the way, he did contribute with passing and other little things) is moot in this argument.

[T Park]

TD4

Those don't count shhhhh :lol

[whottt]

:lmao I almost missed this dumbass statement. 8-9 from three point land against Denver in Game 5 isn't clutch?

No dumbass it isn't clutch...it's being up 3-1 in a series...if that's your idea of pressure?

You're a fucking choker.

STFU and don't ever call me a dumbass at the same moment you are saying Finley is clutch...you umitigated douche.

[timvp]

Put him on the court to do it...is all I am asking.


Doesn't happen...and you know it...

Consequently he goes 0-2 in limited miniutes, you say he choked, and you back Pop's decision to not even let him on hte court to do the Phoenix thing again.

Again, Barry averaged more minutes on the road than at home coming into this series. Minutes is the one excuse you can't use when trying to explain why Barry is 0 for the playoffs on the road.

Use another excuse. He misses the coyote, his brother takes him clubbing on the road, the white home uniform camouflages him at home ... something other than the minutes excuse which has been proven wrong.

[T Park]

Michael Finley doing well is Whottt's biggest fear.

Finley has been a stud these whole playoffs, and he just can't stand it.

[td4mvp21]

No dumbass it isn't clutch...it's being up 3-1 in a series...if that's your idea of pressure?

You're a fucking choker.

STFU and don't ever call me a dumbass at the same moment you are saying Finley is clutch...you umitigated douche.

:lmao I think I hit a soft spot.

I didn't call you a dumbass, I said your statement was retarded. So what about in Game 4 against Dallas when we were DOWN by 1 with about 10 seconds left and he hits a three to put us up? And being clutch can come at anytime in a series, NO MATTER WHAT. Finley has come through time and again for us this year. And in Game 6 against Phoenix, he had all 10 of his points in the fourth. I have the numbers to back it up, you have nothing except that "Barry never gets the opportunity". He doesn't get the opportunity because he doesn't hit a damn shot on the road under pressure.

[whottt]

Right, but we're talking about his shooting, no? And his shooting doesn't get it done. So all of that other stuff (by the way, he did contribute with passing and other little things) is moot in this argument.



Just le me know when you see Barry being the one they are doubling off of...

Then tell me he isn't helping.

[timvp]

Finley never clutch in an elimination game? Did whottt miss the 2001 playoffs? Mavs versus the Jazz on the road in the deciding Game 5 with the series tied 2-2. Stockton and Malone still on the Jazz. Dirk and Nash shoot a combined 6-for-22 from the field.

What does Finley do?

33 points on 13-for-24 shooting, including some of the biggest shots I've ever seen in the fourth quarter to eliminate the Jazz. Something the Spurs have never done -- beat the Jazz in the playoffs or merely win on the road.

I expect more basketball knowledge out of whottt.

Game Over.

:smokin

[whottt]

:lmao I think I hit a soft spot.

I didn't call you a dumbass, I said your statement was retarded. So what about in Game 4 against Dallas when we were DOWN by 1 with about 10 seconds left and he hits a three to put us up? And being clutch can come at anytime in a series, NO MATTER WHAT. Finley has come through time and again for us this year. And in Game 6 against Phoenix, he had all 10 of his points in the fourth. I have the numbers to back it up, you have nothing except that "Barry never gets the opportunity". He doesn't get the opportunity because he doesn't hit a damn shot on the road under pressure.


I've never seen Barry miss a good shot under pressure...to win or lose.

Finley usually looks like Joe Cocker with parkinsons if he's taking the final shot of a must win game....and the worst thing about it is? Duncan could be standing there wide open and he'll still take it.

[whottt]

I'll even go on record as guranteeing a title if Finley gets injured...and thinking we don't win one if he doesn't.

[td4mvp21]

I've never seen Barry miss a good shot under pressure...to win or lose.

Finley usually looks like Joe Cocker with parkinson if he's got the final shot of a must win game.

I've seen him miss plenty of key shots that could have started a run, or during a run that we already started. Again, he doesn't get a lot of shots under pressure because he doesn't usually make them. Pop has run several plays for Barry in the fourth when we need a three in the reg. season and he misses those. What makes you think he'll make the ones when it matters? Last year against the Kings he made one, but too bad it had to hit every spot on the rim to go in. Not like it was talent.

[whottt]

RIght...Pop wants him to shoot 1000 in his 5 minute spurts or no pivotal minutes...

It took Steve Kerr, the greatest 3 shooter in NBA history, 5 years to be able to do that...

Finley damn sure can't do it either...he sucks worse than Barry when his minutes get yanked.

Instead of an 0-2 in 5 minutes....Finley'll put up an 0-14.


And I know...that makes Finley hard and Barry a pussy...according to Pop on down...


But the fact is...we won a title with Barry being the only alternative...and we choked like the fucking Mavs with Finley replacing him.

[Solid D]

I've never seen Barry miss a good shot under pressure...to win or lose.

It's difficult to find Barry missing a good shot under pressure because lately... if his confidence is low, he passes up the shot. Besides, Brent is seldom on the floor in crunch time because of his defensive deficiencies...that's right, you heard me, defensive deficiencies.

[whottt]

It doesn't matter if Barry's confidence is high or low...he's looked nervous as heck when he's made his best shots for the Spurs. He plays better that way...

IT's not ecactly like Horry but it's similar...

Horry plays up to his talent level in pressure filled situations that make other players buttclench...that's why he's Horry. In normal situations(that include nervous situations for most players, he doesn't play with the same energy)..

Trust me...I analyze these things...that's why I can smell a choker from a mile off....Hedo lovers.

It's a talent...not a skill, and it really doesn't have much to do with heart.

[td4mvp21]

RIght...Pop wants him to shoot 1000 in his 5 minute spurts or no pivotal minutes...

It took Steve Kerr, the greatest 3 shooter in NBA history, 5 years to be able to do that...

Finley damn sure can't do it either...he sucks worse than Barry when his minutes get yanked.

Instead of an 0-2 in 5 minutes....Finley'll put up an 0-14.

Barry: 13 games played, 11 mpg, 33% FG, 30% 3FG, 2.5 ppg
Finley: 13 games played, 30 mpg, 44% FG, 47% 3FG, 14.2 ppg

I'd say Finley deserves his minutes and is very effective.

[td4mvp21]

It doesn't matter if Barry's confidence is high or low...he's looked nervous as heck when he's made his best shots for the Spurs. He plays better that way...

IT's not ecactly like Horry but it's similar...

Horry plays up to his talent level in pressure filled situations that make other players buttclench...that's why he's Horry. In normal situations(that include nervous situations for most players, he doesn't play with the same energy)..

Trust me...I analyze these things...that's why I can smell a choker from a mile off....Hedo lovers.

It's a talent...not a skill, and it really doesn't have much to do with heart.

Tell me you didn't just compare Horry to Barry.

[Solid D]

It doesn't matter if Barry's confidence is high or low...he's looked nervous as heck when he's made his best shots for the Spurs. He plays better that way...

This game may be an exception...I hope so...but it is not uncommon to see Pop on the sidelines yelling out to Brent after a missed offensive trip, saying "Brent, shoot it!"

Interesting that you have a Michael Finley avatar, whottt.

[T Park]

This game may be an exception...I hope so...but it is not uncommon to see Pop on the sidelines yelling out to Brent after a missed offensive trip, saying "Brent, shoot it!"


But Pops holding him back......

[whottt]

Interesting that you have a Michael Finley avatar, whottt.


I wear this av as a sign of my Spurs unity and to exocise the choking Mav taint from Finley...

Unlike TimVP and other lightweights who long ago gave up on the Av thing...I will wear mine to the bloody end.

[T Park]

33 points on 13-for-24 shooting, including some of the biggest shots I've ever seen in the fourth quarter to eliminate the Jazz. Something the Spurs have never done -- beat the Jazz in the playoffs or merely win on the road.

I expect more basketball knowledge out of whottt.

Game Over.


Kinda similar to game 5 vs the Nuggets this year nailing 8 of 9 from 3 land.....

[T Park]

Unlike TimVP and other lightweights who long ago gave up on the Av thing...I will wear mine to the bloody end.


<-------------------------------------------AHEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Do you have any fucking idea how painfull it is to have that stiff there?!?!?

:lol

[whottt]

This game may be an exception...I hope so...but it is not uncommon to see Pop on the sidelines yelling out to Brent after a missed offensive trip, saying "Brent, shoot it!"


Doesn't surprise me...

It's also no secret that Pop is not exactly an offensive genius...he probably tells Finley good job as he spastically chunks up a game winning brick with Duncan standing there under the basket. I don't agree with Pop's belief that all open players are equal...I think some won't shoot as good as others in that situation...Pop doesn't...he's wrong.


Finely doesn't make any one better...Barry does.


IF Finley's shot is not falling...he definitely needs to be off the court, that isn't true of Barry...I don't care how bad his D is.

[T Park]

Doesn't surprise me...

It's also no secret that Pop is not exactly an offensive genius


:lol

So hes an idiot for wanting Brent to shoot?


It gets better and better :lmao

[bobbyjoe]

Why is Barry so passive anyway? The guy has a lot of talent, a pure shot, great court vision, and deceptively decent athleticism. He used to be so much more than just a spot up shooter.

[whottt]

Pop is also is the genius behind...put it on the floor Bruce, and hey, let's run 4 down with Malik...

[whottt]

Yeah...keep talking shit.

[whottt]

Pop having Duncan does not mean's he's a good offensive coach.

[T Park]

:lol

Full meltdown is in effect.

[timvp]

A) Classic whottt to ignore my post.

B) Comparing Brent Barry to the clutchest player who ever lived is a joke. Barry's sole Horry like moment required a bounce off the top of the backboard :lol

C) Elson couldn't have sucked anymore than he was sucking with him in my avatar. Since it's been removed, Elson actually improved to bad.

D) Did I just see whottt guarantee no championship unless Finley gets injured?

E) All I ask is for Barry to score a point on the road at some point in the playoffs.

[whottt]

Finley never clutch in an elimination game? Did whottt miss the 2001 playoffs? Mavs *snip*



IT took you 14 words to use the words Mavs and clutch in the same post...


That has to be a record for fewest number of words needed for a selfpwning...

Game Ovah


Bonus points for working the Jazz into it as well...because as we all know...they were as clutch as the Mavs. :rolleyes

[timvp]

*snip*



IT took you 14 words to use the words Mavs and clutch...


That has to be a record number of words needed for a selfpwning...


How'd they do against the Spurs?

Link to a Spurs eliminating the Jazz? Link to the Spurs winning a game in the Delta Center?

[whottt]

Link to a Spurs eliminating the Jazz? Link to the Spurs winning a game in the Delta Center?



Link to any one else in the history of man that has used the Jazz and Mavs as examples of clutchness?

[whottt]

You don't have to be clutch if you have the better team and the upperhand in the series.

[whottt]

Hey...Scott Norwood once kicked a game winner for the Buffalo Bills against the Oilers...

Just clutch baby.

[timvp]

You don't have to be clutch if you have the better team and the upperhand in the series.

2-2 is the upper hand?

And I guess Barry has never been clutch. Link to a game that Barry was clutch in if this is the criteria for clutch?

[whottt]

2-2 is the upper hand?

And I guess Barry has never been clutch. Link to a game that Barry was clutch in if this is the criteria for clutch?


Game 5 VS Sac...


Next.

[timvp]

You don't have to be clutch if you have the better team and the upperhand in the series.

Barry Bounce? Nope. Spurs had upperhand and were up 1-0 in the series.

Barry in Phoenix? Nope. Series was either tied or Spurs were up and the Spurs had the upperhand.

Barry against Dallas? Nope. Barry was the worst player on the court for the Spurs last year when they were getting eliminated. He almost broke the plus/minus machine he went so low.

And if you choke against the biggest set of chokers in sport history, what does that make you?

Question.

[timvp]

Game 5 VS Sac...


Next.

The Spurs didn't have the better team? :lol

[whottt]

2-2 is the upper hand?

In terms of momentum and matchup...the Jazz were done then, and they always struggled with guard oriented teams they couldn't pack the paint against.

[whottt]

The Spurs didn't have the better team? :lol


After 4 or 5 games? No.


We were crapping bricks...

And the Kings weren't as bad of chokers as the Mavs and Jazz.

[timvp]

Game 5 VS Sac...


Next.

And going 2-for-4 in that game really shook the rotational pattern of the earth :jack

[timvp]

After 4 or 5 games? No.


We were crapping bricks...

And the Kings weren't as bad of chokers as the Mavs and Jazz.

Props to the sixth leading scorer in leading the way.

[whottt]

Barry Bounce? Nope. Spurs had upperhand and were up 1-0 in the series.

Barry in Phoenix? Nope. Series was either tied or Spurs were up and the Spurs had the upperhand.

Barry against Dallas? Nope. Barry was the worst player on the court for the Spurs last year when they were getting eliminated. He almost broke the plus/minus machine he went so low.

And if you choke against the biggest set of chokers in sport history, what does that make you?

Question.


You can't choke if you aren't on the court when the game is decided...


Why don't you just say you'd rather lose with Finley than win with especially Horry and Barry...because that's what we did...

I don't think it would have gone seven games if they'd gotten extensive minutes...I think there would have been at least one game where Barry charged our offense up(as you have finally noticed he is capable of doing, after 3 years)...and one game where Horry either hit a game winner, or put Dirk on his ass...

[whottt]

Props to the sixth leading scorer in leading the way.


As opposed to the leader in missed FGA...

[timvp]

You can't choke if you aren't on the court when the game is decided...


Why don't you just say you'd rather lose with Finley than win with especially Horry and Barry...because that's what we did...

I don't think it would have gone seven games if they'd gotten extensive minutes...I think there would have been at least one game where Barry charged our offense up(as you have finally noticed he is capable of doing, after 3 years)...and one game where Horry either hit a game winner, or put Dirk on his ass...

Barry wasn't on the court when he got scared and threw the ball away to lose a game on an inbounds? Well yeah, technically I guess you are right on that one :lol

So Pop should have rode -50 himself hoping that he'd stop losing points for the Spurs and actually eventually make a difference? Interesting viewpoint.


Barry averaged 23 minutes a game in that series. I guess he should have just played all 48, right?

And link to where I advocated not playing Horry?

And I've always said that Barry is best when not playing scared and can make a difference in those circumstances. You are the one Spurs fan alive who didn't notice a change in Pre-almost-traded Barry and Post-almost-traded Barry. When he reverts to his Pre days, he's too passive to make a difference.

[ShoogarBear]

:ihit

Three-day layoff, good to see you guys keeping in shape.

[timvp]

:ihit

Three-day layoff, good to see you guys keeping in shape.

If Barry would have play with half the heart that whottt shows in defending him, he'd score a point in 60 minutes of playoff road basketball.

:smokin

[whottt]

Barry wasn't on the court when he got scared and threw the ball away to lose a game on an inbounds? Well yeah, technically I guess you are right on that one :lol

So Pop should have rode -50 himself hoping that he'd stop losing points for the Spurs and actually eventually make a difference? Interesting viewpoint.


Barry averaged 23 minutes a game in that series. I guess he should have just played all 48, right?

And link to where I advocated not playing Horry?

And I've always said that Barry is best when not playing scared and can make a difference in those circumstances. You are the one Spurs fan alive who didn't notice a change in Pre-almost-traded Barry and Post-almost-traded Barry. When he reverts to his Pre days, he's too passive to make a difference.


And I say it's exactly the opposite...I think he's plays better when he's getting knocked around and when he's nervous.....

He's a surfer...it's an adrenaline thing.

The thing against the Mavs was bad...but let's face it, Pop just kind of stuck him out there...and it's not like the Spurs don't make stupid passes in those situations ever...


Additionally...I think the Mav choke that Finley brought with him to this team hurt our karma and caused us to choke...

Let's face it, when a choker is the best player on your team for much of a series deciding moments, and the other team has your number...you are going to choke....it's inevitable.



Live by the choker...die by the choker...Finley, in a nutshell.

Spurs winning a title with Barry as the 7th man = Fact
Spurs choking to their own bitch with Finley as the 7th man = also a fact.

Beating defending Champ Detroit in finals >>>> Choking to Mavs, who themselves pulled the greatest choke job in NBA history...and then followed it up with an encore this season.

[bigfan]

Well, this is the game. Id rather win this one and lose the next one than the other way around. As said above, the Jazz are going to play their best game tonight. They will all be gunning, including Okur and AK47. Even Fisher will play tough tonight. This is a game where all of our Big Three need to keep the pressure on, our centers need to be productive and the key is having two of our outside guys get hot rather than just one. We need Finley and Horry or Barry to play great tonight. If two of these guys can get in the zone and all other things being the same as before, I think we will be ok. It will be the best game of the season so far. Go Spurs Go!!!!!!!!!!

[timvp]

I did't read that whole post but lets hope that surfer catches a wave tonight in Salt Lake.

:hat

[whottt]

I did't read that whole post but lets hope that surfer catches a wave tonight in Salt Lake.

:hat

I wouldn't want you to miss this part...I am pretty proud of it:



Live by the choker...die by the choker...Finley, in a nutshell.

Spurs winning a title with Barry as the 7th man = Fact
Spurs choking to their own bitch with Finley as the 7th man = also a fact.

Beating defending Champ Detroit in finals >>>> Choking to Mavs, who themselves pulled the greatest choke job in NBA history...and then followed it up with an encore this season.


:smokin

[Solid D]

***PRE-GAME UPDATE***

KSAT reports that Michael Finley tweaked his back this morning before shoot-around. It has tightened up and has been bothering him all day.

Of course, the last time it tightened up, against PHX, he still played well.

Stay tuned.

[Warlord23]

Hmm ... which means Barry plays at least 15-20 minutes today. We should get one more conclusive data point that might play a significant role in the never-ending timpvp-whott debate on Barry's clutchness (or lack of it)

[whottt]

Oh sure...Finley gets judged by the easy home games...leave Barry to clean up his mess on the road.

This probably means more minutes for Horry...not Barry. If Brent starts out 0-2 and isn't agressive Pop will yank him and not give him any important minutes the rest of the game.


And then you guys will say he sucked and choked...

[ShoogarBear]

Nice, got the excuses lined up.

[whottt]

So, how bout that Bruce Bowen?

[Spurs Brazil]

Great game Brent :rolleyes

[td4mvp21]

Hey Whott, eat your own shit you spewed about Barry. He got his opportunity and he fucking sucked. See what happens when he gets big minutes over Finely? :rolleyes

[CharlieMac]

Great game Brent :rolleyes

I like the part where he airballed it.

[whottt]

Hey Whott, eat your own shit you spewed about Barry. He got his opportunity and he fucking sucked. See what happens when he gets big minutes over Finely? :rolleyes


No...actually I don't.

He got 5 minutes without Duncan in the first half...jacked up a shitload of shots like Spursfans and Pop want him too...left with the lead.


Didn't see game time again until we were down by 7 in the third...


Only a dumbass can put this on Barry...and he shot better than Finely anyway...tools. He also jacked up shots like there's no tomorrow...which is what everyone calls him a pussy for not doing...

The rest of those minutes were garbage time.

Barry wasn't the reason we lost the lead in this game...fucking haters.

Pull your heads out and analyze the game.


I'd be willing to bet that Barry did not even touch the ball for most of the minutes in the 4th that he played.

[td4mvp21]

No...actually I don't.

He got 5 minutes without Duncan in the first half...jacked up a shitload of shots like Spursfans and Pop want him too...left with the lead.


Didn't see game time again until we were down by 7 in the third...


Only a dumbass can put this on Barry...and he shot better than Finely anyway...tools. He also jacked up shots like there's no tomorrow...which is what everyone calls him a pussy for not doing...

The rest of those minutes were garbage time.

Barry wasn't the reason we lost the lead in this game...fucking haters.

Pull your heads out and analyze the game.

Uh, then how come everytime he went in, the defense went to shit? The Jazz fucking owned Barry on the offensive end. And then Barry does them a favor and shoots 2-7 overall, including 1-6 from threes. He even airballed shots. And no, most of his minutes weren't in garbage time. They were before that. This loss isn't on Barry at all, but see what happens when he gets minutes? Only a dumbass would continue to argue against all credible logic and facts to back up that logic, which is what you're doing right now.

[whottt]

Uh, then how come everytime he went in, the defense went to shit? The Jazz fucking owned Barry on the offensive end. And then Barry does them a favor and shoots 2-7 overall, including 1-6 from threes. He even airballed shots.

Big fucking deal...Finley was 1-4.....that's a worse PCT douchebag...and he was in the game when we got blown off the court, every time.


And no, most of his minutes weren't in garbage time.

Um...he played one more fucking minute than Finley..and about 8 minutes of it was garbage time.



They were before that. This loss isn't on Barry at all, but see what happens when he gets minutes? Only a dumbass would continue to argue against all credible logic and facts to back up that logic, which is what you're doing right now.


Hey horse's asshole...he outshot Finley douche...and the only reason he got more minutes than his usual 11, is because it was a blowout.

[td4mvp21]

Big fucking deal...Finley was 1-4.....that's a worse PCT douchebag...and he was in the game when we got blown off the court, every time.



Um...he played one more fucking minute than Finley..and about 8 minutes of it was garbage time.





Hey horse's asshole...he outshot Finley douche...and the only reason he got more minutes than his usual 11, is because it was a blowout.

Ok so out of all this shit you've typed, I've managed to gather "Douche....Asshole...fucking....Finley shot worse than Barry...". Yet you have nothing to say about Barry's poor play. What do you have to say about that? Disregard minutes and Finley's "poor shooting" (when he only took 4 shots) and focus on BARRY. Not anyone else. Then tell me who's right. If Barry deserves as many minutes as you claim he does, maybe he should shoot well and not play crappy defense. Explain how to me how Barry deserves more minutes when he plays like this. Please, I really want to know.

[whottt]

Ok so out of all this shit you've typed, I've managed to gather "Douche....Asshole...fucking....Finley shot worse than Barry...". Yet you have nothing to say about Barry's poor play. What do you have to say about that? Disregard minutes and Finley's "poor shooting" (when he only took 4 shots) and focus on BARRY. Not anyone else. Then tell me who's right. If Barry deserves as many minutes as you claim he does, maybe he should shoot well and not play crappy defense. Explain how to me how Barry deserves more minutes when he plays like this. Please, I really want to know.



I say that if being up 2-0 in a series is your idea of pressure...you're still a choker.

This was a low adrenaline game...Duncan couldn't stay on the court...Tony Parker was the only player on the team that didn't suck.

[Buddy Holly]

With the Spurs traveling to Utah, that means one thing -- expect Mehmet Okur to show up.

http://artswork.asu.edu/cec/CEC_thumbs/2-Hand-with-goose-egg.jpg

[Warlord23]

This was a low adrenaline game...Duncan couldn't stay on the court...Tony Parker was the only player on the team that didn't suck.

:lmao Greatest excuse of all-time .. "low adrenaline"

17 mins, 2-7 FG,1-6 3-pt FG, 2 TOs, horrible defense on Giricek that allowed him to get into rhythm ...

And all you have to say is "low adrenaline game" :worthy:

[td4mvp21]

I say that if being up 2-0 in a series is your idea of pressure...you're still a choker.

This was a low adrenaline game...Duncan couldn't stay on the court...Tony Parker was the only player on the team that didn't suck.

How am I the choker? I'm not the one out there going 1-6 from three point land and getting raped on defense. Call Barry the choker. Link to where I said being up 2-0 is pressure? Oh there is none nevermind.

Low adrenaline game? Did you not hear the crowd? Did you not see the intensity in the Jazz players? Damn whottt, you're really sharp tonight. :donkey

[timvp]

Props to Barry for scoring his first point on the road this season. Way to show Horry clutchness in knocking down those wide open three. And making Giricek look like a Hall of Famer ... didn't think it was possible. :tu

[td4mvp21]

Props to Barry for scoring his first point on the road this season. Way to show Horry clutchness in knocking down those wide open three. And making Giricek look like a Hall of Famer ... didn't think it was possible. :tu

Pop must have gotten confused with Barry and Horry, since their clutch abilities are so similar. No wonder Barry played so many fourth quarter minutes....

[LoVeNSpuRs]

Props to Barry for scoring his first point on the road this season. Way to show Horry clutchness in knocking down those wide open three. And making Giricek look like a Hall of Famer ... didn't think it was possible. :tu

:toast

[whottt]

Props to Barry for scoring his first point on the road this season. Way to show Horry clutchness in knocking down those wide open three.

First time he was in the game we were up 8, the next time we were down 7 in the third and Duncan was on the bench...we are up in the series 2-0...

Exactly where was the clutch situation?


And how did Mike do, anyway?


Pop did exactly what I said he would, and the only reason Barry got above avg minutes was because it was a blowout...

5 minutes in the first without Duncan.....would have been 5 minutes at the end of the third and early 4th if the Jazz hadn't blown the game wide open after Barry went out in the 4th....


And it's funny...because the #1 criticism you guys have made of Barry has always been that he's afraid to shoot, and that's exactly what he did tonight...contradiction.


I think he sucks ass when all he does is shoot...but that's what Pop has turned him into....for the most part.








And making Giricek look like a Hall of Famer ... didn't think it was possible. :tu

Ehh Giricek was hitting shots over more than just Barry...if you weren't consumed by a visceral Barry hatred...you'd have seen that.


Bottom line...Barry didn't do anything but shoot spot up threes like he's asked, and he didn't even get to initiate a single offensive play.

[timvp]

First time he was in the game we were up 8

Actually, they were up by seven and when he went out, the Spurs were up by three.


, the next time we were down 7 in the third and Duncan was on the bench

He played one minute in the third quarter without Duncan. What's the excuse for the first five minutes of the fourth when he was playing with Duncan?


...we are up in the series 2-0...

Exactly where was the clutch situation?

Any time this playoffs perhaps?



And how did Mike do, anyway?

Injured ... like you hoped he would be. You said earlier in this thread that the Spurs would be fine even if Finley goes down hurt and Barry has to step in. Nice karma job there.

The basketball gods showed you what would happen in that scenario.

The Spurs are 9-1 in the playoffs when Barry plays 13 minutes or less. They are 1-3 when he plays more than 13 minutes.

Add that one up.


Pop did exactly what I said he would, and the only reason Barry got above avg minutes was because it was a blowout...

You said Pop would yank him after going 0-for-2. Pop instead kept him out there to go 1-for-4 in his first stint.


5 minutes in the first without Duncan.....would have been 5 minutes at the end of the third and early 4th if the Jazz hadn't blown the game wide open after Barry went out in the 4th....


Yeah in case you didn't notice, Duncan was in foul trouble. Barry wasn't the only one missing him tonight.


And it's funny...because the #1 criticism you guys have made of Barry has always been that he's afraid to shoot, and that's exactly what he did tonight...contradiction.

He had to shoot those shots because he was wide ass open. You're the one that tries to pretend no one doubles off him :lol


I think he sucks ass when all he does is shoot...but that's what Pop has turned him into....for the most part.

And yet you are defending him tonight?


Ehh Giricek was hitting shots over more than just Barry...if you weren't consumed by a visceral Barry hatred...you'd have seen that.

:lol

Now I hate Barry. I call him out when he's playing scared ... which hasn't been often since the almost trade. I was the one earlier in the season who said Barry should start. Where were you during that time?



Bottom line...Barry didn't do anything but shoot spot up threes like he's asked, and he didn't even get to initiate a single offensive play.

When the hell does he ever initiate the offense? He's done that maybe five times in his Spurs career. You act like it's some bad adjustment Pop made. Barry never initiates the offense and again, like usual, didn't initiate the offense tonight.

I want Barry to play good. And now with Finley injured like you hoped he would be, he better start playing good or this ship could sink fast. It's not a good sign that the Spurs lose when he plays and are almost undefeated when he doesn't play.

Maybe you can wish for another Spur to go down and put all of San Antonio out of their misery.

[Marcus Bryant]

Brent Barry was a disgrace to all men tonight.

[whottt]

Actually, they were up by seven and when he went out, the Spurs were up by three.



He played one minute in the third quarter without Duncan. What's the excuse for the first five minutes of the fourth when he was playing with Duncan?



Any time this playoffs perhaps?




Injured ... like you hoped he would be. You said earlier in this thread that the Spurs would be fine even if Finley goes down hurt and Barry has to step in. Nice karma job there.

The basketball gods showed you what would happen in that scenario.

The Spurs are 9-1 in the playoffs when Barry plays 13 minutes or less. They are 1-3 when he plays more than 13 minutes.

Add that one up.



You said Pop would yank him after going 0-for-2. Pop instead kept him out there to go 1-for-4 in his first stint.



Yeah in case you didn't notice, Duncan was in foul trouble. Barry wasn't the only one missing him tonight.



He had to shoot those shots because he was wide ass open. You're the one that tries to pretend no one doubles off him :lol



And yet you are defending him tonight?



:lol

Now I hate Barry. I call him out when he's playing scared ... which hasn't been often since the almost trade. I was the one earlier in the season who said Barry should start. Where were you during that time?




When the hell does he ever initiate the offense? He's done that maybe five times in his Spurs career. You act like it's some bad adjustment Pop made. Barry never initiates the offense and again, like usual, didn't initiate the offense tonight.

I want Barry to play good. And now with Finley injured like you hoped he would be, he better start playing good or this ship could sink fast. It's not a good sign that the Spurs lose when he plays and are almost undefeated when he doesn't play.

Maybe you can wish for another Spur to go down and put all of San Antonio out of their misery.



I didn't say we'd be fine if Finley went down with injury...

I said I'd gurantee a title win if he went out with an injury...

There's a difference.

And I stand by it...Finley really tore it up tonight as well.

[timvp]

I didn't say we'd be fine if Finley went down with injury...

I said I'd gurantee a title win if he went out with an injury...

There's a difference.

And I stand by it...Finley really tore it up tonight as well.

He was injured like you hoped he would be. Or did you miss that?

[whottt]

He was injured like you hoped he would be. Or did you miss that?



He got on the court didn't he?


That's not injured...


























enough.

[timvp]

He got on the court didn't he?


That's not injured...


























enough.

whottt has hit a new low.

Sad.

[timvp]

Spurs Fan Wishing Injury On One Of His Own < Mav Fan

[whottt]

I also was willing to gurantee a SpursChampionship if we replaced AJ with a starting caliber NBA guard....any starting caliber NBA guard. I was right...with Devin too.

[timvp]

I get owned in an argument so I wish injury on a Spur. My Dallas Rangers may suck but I'm a true fan of Dallas.

[whottt]

I'd rather lose with Finley

[timvp]

I ignore the fact that the Spurs are 9-0 in their last nine playoff games when Barry plays 13 minutes or less. Instead I use a Beno Udrih like take that since the Spurs won a title in 2005 with Barry as the backup, the Spurs could do it again. Even if Barry did next to nothing in that playoff run and had a plus/minus less than half of either Beno or Glenn Robinson, I ignore all that. timvp owned me so hardcore that for revenge I'm going to wish the Spurs either lose or that Finley gets injured so I save some face.

[whottt]

False...I just don't think Finley helps the team or it's offense as much as the shot chucker lovers do...

In fact I'm certain of it...if he's not scoring, he's not helping. But shouldn't you be touting Barry's fearlessness and jacking up shots like was Jordan tonight? You do it when Finley does it...and I've often wondered why you had a Ron Mercer hate-on...he was always open, and shooting.

[whottt]

You really would though...you'd rather lose with Finley...I don't like our team as much with him on the court, and I'm not going to lie about it...we become much more one dimensional and our passing is not as good.

[timvp]

You really would though...you'd rather lose with Finley...I don't like our team as much with him on the court

Hopefully you aren't actually watching the games. Hopefully you are just talking out of your azz.

Finley leads the Spurs in plus/minus for the playoffs. Leads the freakin' team. Yet you are criticizing his pay and hope he gets injured.

What a joke.

[whottt]

Hopefully you aren't actually watching the games. Hopefully you are just talking out of your azz.

Finley leads the Spurs in plus/minus for the playoffs. Leads the freakin' team. Yet you are criticizing his pay and hope he gets injured.

What a joke.


+/- still doesn't mean a whole lot...if the fact that Finley leads in it isn't already indicative of that.

[timvp]

+/- still doesn't mean a whole lot...if the fact that Finley leads in it isn't already indicative of that.

Yeah the Spurs outscoring their opponent doesn't mean a whole lot.

WTF?

[whottt]

Yeah the Spurs outscoring their opponent doesn't mean a whole lot.

WTF?


Finley starts with the best players on the team...he gets help from all of them, and plays little or none with the bench. None of them get the benfit of as many great players as he does...

I gurantee you Finley has not been the best player on this team this post season.

[timvp]

I gurantee you Finley has not been the best player on this team this post season.

Stunning revelation :jack