The Founders

[MannyIsGod]

You know, it has started to annoy me how high we put the founders of the US on a pedestal.

Yes, they were very intelligent men and set up a system of government which has prooven to be very effective, but lets stop treating them as though they knew of every situation which would arise and somehow hid the answer Da Vinci Code style in the damn constitution.

Lets not forget that these same men also choose to deny equal rights to the majority of the population in the United States.

I'm not interested in what they intended anymore, because they inteded for slaves to be counted as 2/3s of a person. Hell you could have at least given them 2/3s of everyone elses rights to go along with that.

I'm interested in what gives everyone the same equality and opportunity as the next citizen of this country, and that should be our guidline in deciding if laws are right. Would this law infringe on the rights of others? Enough of it's what the founders intended.

[FromWayDowntown]

Manny--

I appreciate your concerns about the intent of the Framers, but I'd suggest to you that what the Framers/Founders did should continue to be the paradigm for understanding civil rights in this country because they basically got it right. They got it right for this reason: they understood that people have basic rights and that government can only act to limit or take away those rights. So, they articulated a number of fundamental rights that cannot be taken away under any circumstance: the right to free speech, the right to a free press, the right to free exercise of religion, the right to be free from governmental establishment of religion, the right to due process of law, the right to be free from unwarranted searches and seizures, and other such rights.

Your quarrel, it seems to me, is that they didn't initially extend those rights to every person. I agree with you that it is a fair question about their commitment to equality. But, I think it is worth noting that the Framers/Founders successors have managed to extend those fundamental rights to everyone in our society -- in essence, they've improved on the product that the Framers/Founders produced by protecting the fundamental rights identified by the Framers. In that respect, I think the intent of the Framers must continue to be a guiding principle in how we understand the scope of our rights and the limitations on the government's power to infringe upon those rights.

[JoeChalupa]

I think the Founders were some bold mofo's who had a great vision, but it was an early vision with great intentions and a great foundation that created the greatest country in the world.

[2pac]

Slaves only wish they were 2/3s of a man.

3/5ths

[scott]

Yes, they were very intelligent men and set up a system of government which has prooven to be very effective, but lets stop treating them as though they knew of every situation which would arise and somehow hid the answer Da Vinci Code style in the damn constitution.

Its just a movie dude... there is no National Treasure...

[Hook Dem]

You're right Manny.....what the hell did George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. ever do for us anyway? Let's kick those fuckers to the curb. We got other things that serve our agenda. Thanks for opening our eyes!!!!

[Duff McCartney]

You're right Manny.....what the hell did George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. ever do for us anyway? Let's kick those fuckers to the curb. We got other things that serve our agenda. Thanks for opening our eyes!!!!

Well, we all know what TJ gave to his slaves....

[Hook Dem]

Well, we all know what TJ gave to his slaves....
Feel free to join in on the "kicking" Duff!