Did Manu "ruin" the series?

[Jimcs50]

Cold Pizza begs the question, did Manu Ginobli "ruin" the series with all his flopping last night?

Also a guest columnist from Detroit was almost giddy, because according to her, now Detroit will be the good guys against the hated Spurs, so now the Spurs will no longer be boring. Now many people will watch the Finals because people loving having teams and players to hate(Manu, Bowen) It is easy to hate the "flopping and dirty, Spurs".


Below is a picture of one of Manu's obvious flops:


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070529/capt.ab1cc10b21d341129022cd2bc8299e60.spurs_jazz_b asketball_slcc112.jpg



I never thought I would see so much loathing from the media about my beloved Spurs. What is it about game 4s that bring out the worst in my Spurs? :)

[Summers]

He's ruined it for me. I can't bear to watch anymore basketball this season.


;)

[nkdlunch]

I'm loving it and I'm sure Manu is too. Even Tony admitted he loves the bad boys image.

[ArgSpursFan]

I'm loving it and I'm sure Manu is too. Even Tony admitted he loves the bad boys image.

for sure,that´s gonna increse his rapping career. :smokin

[lebomb]

Cold Pizza


Below is a picture of one of Manu's obvious flops:


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070529/capt.ab1cc10b21d341129022cd2bc8299e60.spurs_jazz_b asketball_slcc112.jpg






yeah, nice FLOP Manu!!!................. :fight

[sa_butta]

I cannot deny the fact that Manu flops, but what Fisher did last night was just uncalled for. The Jazz were frustrated and it showed. Ive been hearing about the free throw advantage and how all the whistles went the Spurs way. That is because Ginobili attacked the basket and played aggressive, Utah did not do that.

[WalterBenitez]

Cold Pizza
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070529/capt.ab1cc10b21d341129022cd2bc8299e60.spurs_jazz_b asketball_slcc112.jpg



I told you the Manu's bald spot made that foul !!!!

[MI21]

Difference with the Spurs and Manu is that after that foul, where Okur really didn't make much of a play on the ball, Manu got up and took his FT's. No whining about it. No calling anyone dirty. Just hard playoff basketball.

:hat

[GSH]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070529/capt.ab1cc10b21d341129022cd2bc8299e60.spurs_jazz_b asketball_slcc112.jpg

Sensing that Manu Ginobili is about to flop, Mehmet Okur raises his hand before the whistle is even blown.

[LilMissSPURfect]

winners = bad guys = haters = wgaf= 4

[Jimcs50]

I cannot deny the fact that Manu flops, but what Fisher did last night was just uncalled for. The Jazz were frustrated and it showed. Ive been hearing about the free throw advantage and how all the whistles went the Spurs way. That is because Ginobili attacked the basket and played aggressive, Utah did not do that.


41 FTs was almost as many as the 50 Dallas got against us in 05....I'd say only about 8 of them were questionable though.

[Soul_Patch]

Mehmet Okur is garbage.

AK is at least getting it done on defense...sometimes...but wow..Okur is a complete non factor.

Im really suprised, i really thought he and AK would be very tough for us to manage.

[JamStone]

So, a picture of getting fouled hard means Manu never flops???

Great logic.

[Jimcs50]

winners = bad guys = haters = wgaf= 4

The media, obviously.


:spin

[WalterBenitez]

So, a picture of getting fouled hard means Manu never flops???

Great logic.

Hmmmm ... a picture of Manu's flopping means he never got fouled ???? :eyebrows that's is the real question!?

[Jimcs50]

So, a picture of getting fouled hard means Manu never flops???

Great logic.

You're an idiot.

It was a joke, you douchbag.

:rolleyes

[Jimcs50]

Hmmmm ... a picture of Manu's flopping means he never got fouled ???? :eyebrows that's is the real question!?


touche'

:lol

[E20]

Manu flopped? And I'm serious I didn't see any flopping at all.

[sa_butta]

On the Ticket this morning they said this was David Sterns doing because they dont want the Spurs in the Finals, but they REALLY dont want the Jazz in the Finals.:rolleyes

[Jimcs50]

So, a picture of getting fouled hard means Manu never flops???

Great logic.

Here is a quote from me in the Fisher thread:


Re: Manu quote on Fisher

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manu out flopped the Master Flopper, and that was why Fisher got pissed....because he might have lost his title of best actor in the NBA.

I am not a blind homer and if you had any brain cells, you would have noticed that with my posts in here, but if you need me to spell it out for you:

Manu does flop, ok?

But it is ludicrous to say that Manu ruined the series...that is a bit much. Ya think?

[TampaDude]

Below is a picture of one of Manu's obvious flops:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070529/capt.ab1cc10b21d341129022cd2bc8299e60.spurs_jazz_b asketball_slcc112.jpg



Ticky tack... :lol

[Mr. Body]

I didn't even see a Manu flop last night. I'm pretty confused by all this. :wtf

[JamStone]

Here is a quote from me in the Fisher thread:



I am not a blind homer and if you had any brain cells, you would have noticed that with my posts in here, but if you need me to spell it out for you:

Manu does flop, ok?

But it is ludicrous to say that Manu ruined the series...that is a bit much. Ya think?



I didn't agree with the comment that Manu ruined the series.

I criticized the notion that one picture of Manu obviously getting fouled hard refutes the notion that he flops. That's all.

[sa_butta]

Thats really a bad angle, Okur is not even touching him.

[JamStone]

You're an idiot.

It was a joke, you douchbag.

:rolleyes


Apparently, like real recognize real, douche recognize douche.

:donkey

[thousandth]

Manu flopped? And I'm serious I didn't see any flopping at all.

Manu flopped? No. Okur is a murderer. :p:

Revenge is sweet!

[WalterBenitez]

Thats really a bad angle, Okur is not even touching him.

Even better that is photoshoped picture :nerd

[Marcus Bryant]

Your team should be allowed to hack and grab with abandon.

:baby

[Jimcs50]

Apparently, like real recognize real, douche recognize douche.

:donkey


huh?

:p:

[GSH]

So, a picture of getting fouled hard means Manu never flops???

Great logic.

Every player in the league flops. Some get fewer opportunities, and some are not as polished at it. I'll gather some clips of your Pistons flopping, if you're interested.

Ginobili is a tough player, and he gets the living shit pounded out of him night after night. I can't count the number of times some cretin has whined about a Ginobili flop, and the replay shows him taking a hard shot to the face or a forearm clothsline. Yeh...that picture doesn't prove anything except that one of Manu's trips to the line last night was legitimate. But I'm sure we could dig up clips to show that a lot more of them were just as legit. Bottom line...Manu earned his points last night.

I don't think any Spurs fan would suggest that Manu never flops. But I also don't think that any fan of the game would believe that he flops nearly as often as George Karl or Mike D'Antoni would like you to believe. And I promise you that either one of those guys would kill to have him on their teams.

We've got trolls left over from the second round, and new ones coming in ahead of time for the Finals.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I think this is all blow back from the Phoenix series, alot of people wanted to see the suns win that series and win their first title and now, despite a real lack of flopping on Manu's part (maybe the first fisher T but that's the only one i can really think of) he's just getting pounded by the national media. I have a question though, how come no one ever looks back at the tape and says...hmmm, even though everyone is calling manu a flopper, i really havent seen a flop yet.

I bet woody paige will go on some 10 minute long rant about manu flopping in around the horn today

[dbestpro]

Yes, I agree. Manu ruined the series------------------- for Utah and all the Spur wannabe babies.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So, Manu is dirty for flopping, but Fisher and Williams are just playing good D when they do it. I think I got it, thanks.

[Jimcs50]

I
I bet woody paige will go on some 10 minute long rant about manu flopping in around the horn today


That is a given.

:lol

[Jimcs50]

So, Manu is dirty for flopping, but Fisher and Williams are just playing good D when they do it. I think I got it, thanks.

Figures, that it takes an Aggie a while to get something.

:p:

[Solid D]

Collins and Fisher both spend hours watching video of large-mouth bass landing in the boat. Yet, Manu ruins series'.

[Obstructed_View]

Every player in the league flops. Some get fewer opportunities, and some are not as polished at it. I'll gather some clips of your Pistons flopping, if you're interested.

Ginobili is a tough player, and he gets the living shit pounded out of him night after night. I can't count the number of times some cretin has whined about a Ginobili flop, and the replay shows him taking a hard shot to the face or a forearm clothsline. Yeh...that picture doesn't prove anything except that one of Manu's trips to the line last night was legitimate. But I'm sure we could dig up clips to show that a lot more of them were just as legit. Bottom line...Manu earned his points last night.

I don't think any Spurs fan would suggest that Manu never flops. But I also don't think that any fan of the game would believe that he flops nearly as often as George Karl or Mike D'Antoni would like you to believe. And I promise you that either one of those guys would kill to have him on their teams.

We've got trolls left over from the second round, and new ones coming in ahead of time for the Finals.
:clap :clap :clap

[Alamode]

Every player in the league flops. Some get fewer opportunities, and some are not as polished at it. I'll gather some clips of your Pistons flopping, if you're interested.

Ginobili is a tough player, and he gets the living shit pounded out of him night after night. I can't count the number of times some cretin has whined about a Ginobili flop, and the replay shows him taking a hard shot to the face or a forearm clothsline. Yeh...that picture doesn't prove anything except that one of Manu's trips to the line last night was legitimate. But I'm sure we could dig up clips to show that a lot more of them were just as legit. Bottom line...Manu earned his points last night.

I don't think any Spurs fan would suggest that Manu never flops. But I also don't think that any fan of the game would believe that he flops nearly as often as George Karl or Mike D'Antoni would like you to believe. And I promise you that either one of those guys would kill to have him on their teams.

We've got trolls left over from the second round, and new ones coming in ahead of time for the Finals.

:tu Well said.

[JamStone]

Every player in the league flops. Some get fewer opportunities, and some are not as polished at it. I'll gather some clips of your Pistons flopping, if you're interested.

Ginobili is a tough player, and he gets the living shit pounded out of him night after night. I can't count the number of times some cretin has whined about a Ginobili flop, and the replay shows him taking a hard shot to the face or a forearm clothsline. Yeh...that picture doesn't prove anything except that one of Manu's trips to the line last night was legitimate. But I'm sure we could dig up clips to show that a lot more of them were just as legit. Bottom line...Manu earned his points last night.

I don't think any Spurs fan would suggest that Manu never flops. But I also don't think that any fan of the game would believe that he flops nearly as often as George Karl or Mike D'Antoni would like you to believe. And I promise you that either one of those guys would kill to have him on their teams.

We've got trolls left over from the second round, and new ones coming in ahead of time for the Finals.


I didn't suggest that Manu is the only flopper in the league. And, I've readily admitted that several of the Pistons players are floppers. But, there are several Spurs homers that infer or intimate that Manu is not much of a flopper at all.

He's one of the biggest floppers in the league. That's all I'm getting at.

As for being a troll, I'm not. Expressing my opinion is not being a troll. I been here since the 2003-04 regular season, I think. Check my post count. Check the content of my post history. I'm not a troll. If I'm a troll, there is a good percentage of Spurs fans that are trolls as well.

[ShoogarBear]

Flopping annoys me, no matter who does it: Manu, Fisher, Oberto, Okur.

I'll be glad when this series is over and I don't have to watch AK slide halfway across the court again after incidental contact.

[DarrinS]

The best flop of this series was Robert Horry's in game 3. Manu was getting hammered last night. So was Tim. I think the tomahawk chop is some kind of Jerry Sloan signature move. Boozer is mastering this move like Malone did before him.


I'll give Boozer credit though -- his block on Duncan was one of the best blocks I've ever seen.

[SpursFanFirst]

Every player in the league flops. Some get fewer opportunities, and some are not as polished at it. I'll gather some clips of your Pistons flopping, if you're interested.

Ginobili is a tough player, and he gets the living shit pounded out of him night after night. I can't count the number of times some cretin has whined about a Ginobili flop, and the replay shows him taking a hard shot to the face or a forearm clothsline. Yeh...that picture doesn't prove anything except that one of Manu's trips to the line last night was legitimate. But I'm sure we could dig up clips to show that a lot more of them were just as legit. Bottom line...Manu earned his points last night.

I don't think any Spurs fan would suggest that Manu never flops. But I also don't think that any fan of the game would believe that he flops nearly as often as George Karl or Mike D'Antoni would like you to believe. And I promise you that either one of those guys would kill to have him on their teams.

We've got trolls left over from the second round, and new ones coming in ahead of time for the Finals.

I was going to say something to this effect, but you said it perfectly!
It's interesting to me that players across the league flop nightly, but it's not until Manu (or any Spur) does it, that it becomes a story.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Collins and Fisher both spend hours watching video of large-mouth bass landing in the boat. Yet, Manu ruins series'.
They'll be watching it first hand by this time next week. Break out the tackle box!

[WalterBenitez]

FLops is a philosophy that starts in the bench .. you can see how Beno is practicing all the time

[ploto]

I was enjoying this series with Utah for the first three games specifically because the players were not flopping. It was actually basketball. But I quit watching last night because I hate the flopping- and Manu and Oberto are the worst culprits. It saddens me because Manu is my favorite player on the Spurs and I love to watch him play basketball- but I abhor the flopping. It makes it look like the team does not believe they can actually win playing basketball. It does not ruin it but it cheapens it. And it was out of control last night.

[carina_gino20]

Is Mark Jackson stupid? Oh, wait, no need for a poll. thanks.

[Obstructed_View]

He's one of the biggest floppers in the league. That's all I'm getting at.
Lie. What you are getting at is that the Spurs somehow stole the game because manu fooled the officials into blowing the whistles. It's pathetic, it's trolling, and like I've said before, it's beneath you.

[JamStone]

Lie. What you are getting at is that the Spurs somehow stole the game because manu fooled the officials into blowing the whistles. It's pathetic, it's trolling, and like I've said before, it's beneath you.


What am I getting at?

I'm getting at Manu's flopping. Flopping annoys me. I hate it when Rip and Chauncey do it. I criticize them as well. I see Manu do it, and I'll discuss it.

Never did I even suggest that his flopping meant the officials gave the game to the Spurs. Don't put words in my mouth.

I don't like flopping. I felt Manu flopped several times last night when he didn't need to. That's all.

Call it whatever you want. I'm not trolling. I'm just adding to discussion. If you don't like my opinion, ignore it.

[Obstructed_View]

What am I getting at?

I'm getting at Manu's flopping. Flopping annoys me. I hate it when Rip and Chauncey do it. I criticize them as well. I see Manu do it, and I'll discuss it.

Never did I even suggest that his flopping meant the officials gave the game to the Spurs. Don't put words in my mouth.

I don't like flopping. I felt Manu flopped several times last night when he didn't need to. That's all.

Call it whatever you want. I'm not trolling. I'm just adding to discussion. If you don't like my opinion, ignore it.
You are full of shit, and you are wrong. If you don't like me pointing out the complete and total lack of facts behind your flawed opinion, don't give them.

[JamStone]

LMAO

Believe what you want to believe and I'll do the same.

Manu hasn't flopped nearly as much as in previous years, and then last night's game happened.

He is still a huge flopper. Sure, he gets hit hard a lot of times, but that doesn't stop him from exaggerating to the point of flopping if it will help him sell the foul call.

Get over yourself.

[laser2kgt]

the flops by manu didnt even affect the outcome of the game, it was out of reach already. make a big deal about it when it costs you the game.

:dramaquee

[LifeOnaPlate]

I hate flopping no matter who does it. (Utah's biggest offender is Collins, not Fisher, though Fish gets his in.) During the Houston series Shane Battier flopped seven times during game 7, obvious, ridiculous flops. It was infuriating. Luckily, the officials stopped giving them to him.

The number one biggest flop offense I have ever seen came as Ginobli ran into fisher after a timeout and flopped, redulting in a technical on Fisher. HE FLOPPED WHILE THE BALL WAS OUT OF PLAY DURING A TIMEOUT. Lamest flop ever.

[rob5]

The difference between Manu and the rest of the Spurs is not the size of his bald spot, but the size of his balls.

[DarkReign]

We've got trolls left over from the second round, and new ones coming in ahead of time for the Finals.

Who the fuck is "we"?

199 posts in and youre in the click already? Thats news.

Manu flops. Big whoop. So does every other player worth their salt on defense.

I am more concerned about his blatant traveling. Nearly every move to the basket involves a "by the rules" travel.

Manu picks ball up.
Left foot forward, Right foot forward, onto both feet, then jumps.

Thats a travel, by the letter of the law.

[TampaDude]

Just one thing to say to the Jazz...SCOREBOARD.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

LMAO

Believe what you want to believe and I'll do the same.

Manu hasn't flopped nearly as much as in previous years, and then last night's game happened.

He is still a huge flopper. Sure, he gets hit hard a lot of times, but that doesn't stop him from exaggerating to the point of flopping if it will help him sell the foul call.

Get over yourself.

Utah was flopping all night long, but you don't see any Spurs fans crying about it. Yet when Manu returns the favor, it's a mockery of the game. Give me a break.

AK47 takes a bump from Vaughn, who weights 150 dripping wet, and goes flying across the court to get a charge call, but that's not a flop?

Hell, on Manu's drive to the bucket that's on all the highlights, Fisher tried to flop to draw the charge at the start of the play, then when he didn't get the call and Manu iced the game, he runs over like a chump and gives Manu the shoulder bump.

Howabout Deron Williams flying ten feet back off a little bump on a spin move by Parker? Or Milsap going from outside the restricted zone all the way to the basket support on a bump by Tony?

We could go on and on. The point is, Manu played Jerry Sloan ball better than Jerry's players did last night, and no one should be crying about it.

[LifeOnaPlate]

DarkReign: I think that's a Euro league habit; Giricek gets called for it, honestly, about once per game.

[Budkin]

You've got to be fucking kidding me... how can they seriously have a topic like this? Bullshit.

[cheguevara]

Who the fuck is "we"?

199 posts in and youre in the click already? Thats news.

Manu flops. Big whoop. So does every other player worth their salt on defense.

I am more concerned about his blatant traveling. Nearly every move to the basket involves a "by the rules" travel.

Manu picks ball up.
Left foot forward, Right foot forward, onto both feet, then jumps.

Thats a travel, by the letter of the law.

newsflash: you have Webber on your team. he travels more than a 747

[Budkin]

Pistons fans are starting to get antsy because they know that they are next.

[Darkwaters]

The greatest flops of Spurs' postseason are as follows:

4) Nash's overemphasis on the Horry knockdown. Not a true flop by any means, but some definite acting went into his flailing.
3) Manu's flop against Fisher which resulted in the technical. He wasn't looking to flop, but when he felt contact the instincts kicked in.
2) Raja Bell's flop on Finley in game 4 where Finley was just standing there and Bell exaggerated his flop to the extent that it looked like Michael had thrown him to the ground (it was featured in the Spurstalk Youtube video "Who's the real dirty team?" or whatever).
1) Robert Horry's monstrous flop in Game 3 of the Utah series. Big Flop Bob strikes again.

PS: I missed all but the first game of the Denver series as I was in the Bahamas. Sorry if I missed some good ones there.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I think flopping should be a foul starting next season. It drives me nuts, and I don't care if it benefits the Spurs--it's bad basketball.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Tony Parker has never driven to the basket without falling on his skinny ass, by the way.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Flopping makes the NBA look silly. That goes for the entire NBA.

[Darkwaters]

Tony Parker has never driven to the basket without falling on his skinny ass, by the way.

http://espn.go.com/photo/2007/0528/nba_g_parker_395.jpg

With good reason...

[cheguevara]

HE FLOPPED WHILE THE BALL WAS OUT OF PLAY DURING A TIMEOUT. Lamest flop ever.

No Kirilenko's vs. warriors was lamer. he flopped when the game was won already, he dove 20 feet after a warriors freethrow

:lmao

it was not only lame, it was pathetic

[SequSpur]

Cold Pizza is dumb.

[JamStone]

Utah was flopping all night long, but you don't see any Spurs fans crying about it. Yet when Manu returns the favor, it's a mockery of the game. Give me a break.

perhaps you arrived late to spurstalk last night during the game and missed the thread titled "I guess the Jazz brought their own refs to the game tonight."




AK47 takes a bump from Vaughn, who weights 150 dripping wet, and goes flying across the court to get a charge call, but that's not a flop?

Hell, on Manu's drive to the bucket that's on all the highlights, Fisher tried to flop to draw the charge at the start of the play, then when he didn't get the call and Manu iced the game, he runs over like a chump and gives Manu the shoulder bump.


Apparently Manu is still blind from the shot he took in the Phoenix series because Fisher was in Manu's line of vision yet Manu still ran towards his direction. And, if that was a shoulder bump by Fisher, then Horry deserved an assault and battery charge for what he did to Nash.



Howabout Deron Williams flying ten feet back off a little bump on a spin move by Parker? Or Milsap going from outside the restricted zone all the way to the basket support on a bump by Tony?

We could go on and on. The point is, Manu played Jerry Sloan ball better than Jerry's players did last night, and no one should be crying about it.


I haven't talked about the Jazz and their theatrics. They were flopping as well. But, the topic is Manu and his flopping.

[LifeOnaPlate]

I love how some of you guys post a picture as though it proves Parker is fouled every time he flies into the lane. If you can't see Parker falling on his ass after no contact you need to get bigger TV's. I never claimed he doesn't get fouled, I said he never drives without falling- contact or no contact. Maybe one day he'll land on a cameraman and bust his tailbone or something. One can only hope... ;)

[coopdogg3]

But that's just it. You're talking about Manu flopping, Spurs fans are talking about everybody flopping. Why is the focus on Manu?

I saw only one flop last night, and that was Manu's acting job with Fisher. This came right after Fisher flopping trying to draw an offensive foul. How come the only thing people talk about is Manu and his flops? It's just unfair.

And Parker doesn't flop. Dude may weigh 150 pounds, maybe. He goes into the lane, he gets knocked down a lot, never really gets a foul, but he doesn't want a foul. He's just so small when he's with the big boys in the lane, he invariably gets knocked down.

[GSH]

I didn't suggest that Manu is the only flopper in the league. And, I've readily admitted that several of the Pistons players are floppers. But, there are several Spurs homers that infer or intimate that Manu is not much of a flopper at all.

He's one of the biggest floppers in the league. That's all I'm getting at.

As for being a troll, I'm not. Expressing my opinion is not being a troll. I been here since the 2003-04 regular season, I think. Check my post count. Check the content of my post history. I'm not a troll. If I'm a troll, there is a good percentage of Spurs fans that are trolls as well.

Ahh hell... maybe you're not a troll. I'll give you credit for it until you prove otherwise. You can start by at least considering this:

Manu is damned good at taking the ball to the rack, and he can be hard to stop. When teams key on stopping his penetration, it usually means that they are going to pound the shit out of him and make him hit free throws, instead of getting layups. Sometimes Manu calls extra attention to hard fouls that would not get called otherwise. You would understand that better if you watched every Spurs game like we do.

Manu gets his head snapped back (just like in the picture of him and Okur) for real, all too often. George Karl seriously said that he used to grow his hair long so that the refs would see it better when he threw his head back and flopped. We get sick of hearing it. (Especially in that series where the Nuggets nearly decapitated him several times.) All the talk about flopping is a disrespect to a very good player who brings heart and excitement to every game.

Sometimes people focus on the fact that Rasheed gets more techs than any other player in the league, and forget to do justice to his talent as a player. But Rasheed has done more to earn his hothead reputation than Manu has done to earn his flopper reputation. That got hung on Manu by opposing coaches whose players couldn't contain him. Before George Karl's rant, all the announcers talked about was how exciting he was.

When you talk about Manu like flopping is the most significant thing about his game...you're pretty far down the road to trolldom.

[Budkin]

Has Manu Ruined The Entire Game Of Basketball Worldwide???

[GrandeDavid]

Flopping? What p*ssies. The Spurs had the game in the bag. How about all the hard fouls the Spurs took? Not to mention flying debris. Jealous punk bitches. Manu has more character than any of those national talking head, mouth running, desperate for a story that sells media folk.

[LifeOnaPlate]

haha maybe he ruined it, but in reality, I think Manure needs to go back to playing cousin Balki on perfect strangers. That was a kickass program.

Parker is little, he does get knocked sometimes when he drives, but come on, the dude falls EVERY time. It's laughable sometimes.

[cheguevara]

haha maybe he ruined it, but in reality, I think Manure needs to go back to playing cousin Balki on perfect strangers. That was a kickass program.

Parker is little, he does get knocked sometimes when he drives, but come on, the dude falls EVERY time. It's laughable sometimes.

Kirilenko flops as much as both tony and manu

[703 Spurz]

Cold Pizza begs the question, did Manu Ginobli "ruin" the series with all his flopping last night?

Also a guest columnist from Detroit was almost giddy, because according to her, now Detroit will be the good guys against the hated Spurs, so now the Spurs will no longer be boring. Now many people will watch the Finals because people loving having teams and players to hate(Manu, Bowen) It is easy to hate the "flopping and dirty, Spurs".


Below is a picture of one of Manu's obvious flops:


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070529/capt.ab1cc10b21d341129022cd2bc8299e60.spurs_jazz_b asketball_slcc112.jpg



I never thought I would see so much loathing from the media about my beloved Spurs. What is it about game 4s that bring out the worst in my Spurs? :)

So b/c Cold Pizza thinks Manu flopped all night means what? Who gives a shit what they think. Who watches that show anyway?

[GSH]

Who the fuck is "we"?

199 posts in and youre in the click already? Thats news.

Ummm....I sorta meant Spurs fans. I hadn't realized that squatter's rights applied to fan forums. So if a Pistons fan trolls her long enough, he acquires additional rights?You even took the time to look up my post count. I now realize that I'm not "in the click" already. Fuck you very much!

[JamStone]

Ahh hell... maybe you're not a troll. I'll give you credit for it until you prove otherwise. You can start by at least considering this:

Manu is damned good at taking the ball to the rack, and he can be hard to stop. When teams key on stopping his penetration, it usually means that they are going to pound the shit out of him and make him hit free throws, instead of getting layups. Sometimes Manu calls extra attention to hard fouls that would not get called otherwise. You would understand that better if you watched every Spurs game like we do.

Manu gets his head snapped back (just like in the picture of him and Okur) for real, all too often. George Karl seriously said that he used to grow his hair long so that the refs would see it better when he threw his head back and flopped. We get sick of hearing it. (Especially in that series where the Nuggets nearly decapitated him several times.) All the talk about flopping is a disrespect to a very good player who brings heart and excitement to every game.

Sometimes people focus on the fact that Rasheed gets more techs than any other player in the league, and forget to do justice to his talent as a player. But Rasheed has done more to earn his hothead reputation than Manu has done to earn his flopper reputation. That got hung on Manu by opposing coaches whose players couldn't contain him. Before George Karl's rant, all the announcers talked about was how exciting he was.

When you talk about Manu like flopping is the most significant thing about his game...you're pretty far down the road to trolldom.



Here's the thing, I LOVE Manu Ginobili's game! Honestly. Ever since 2004-05, he was one of my favorite players to watch play. I just hate flopping. As I've said before, I hate the fact that Rip Hamilton flops. I think he's a drama queen. I hate that he tries to act like Rasheed and bitch about calls all the time. I still support him because he's on the Pistons, and I still think he has a great and unique game. But, I hate his flopping and drama.

I criticize Manu's flopping because he's simply TOO GOOD to have to resort to it. He doesn't need any flopping at all in his game to be effective. I think he's one of the best slashers in the game. And, I think he's one of the better defensive shooting guards in the game. I think he's clutch. He doesn't need to flop.

Why would I not criticize Fisher or Kirilenko about their flopping? Derek Fisher is and always will be a role player. He has to flop because he doesn't have the game to compete if he isn't taking every single advantage he can on the court. Kirilenko? This year, he proved to be a one trick pony and a fragile little girl. He is unstable and he isn't tough. I expect him to flop because he doesn't have the mental toughness not to do that stupid shit.

Manu is mentally tough. He's one of the toughest players in the league along with Allen Iverson and Kobe, in both mental toughness and being able to take physical contact. I truly believe that.

That's why I criticize Manu. He's too good to flop. He's too good.

[mVp]

Kirilenko flops as much as both tony and manu

Kirilenko is the winner by FAR!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oUJW_8KzzZc

[Vito Corleone]

The best flop of this series was Robert Horry's in game 3. Manu was getting hammered last night. So was Tim. I think the tomahawk chop is some kind of Jerry Sloan signature move. Boozer is mastering this move like Malone did before him.


I'll give Boozer credit though -- his block on Duncan was one of the best blocks I've ever seen.

I thought the block by AK on Oberto was just incredible.

[cheguevara]

Kirilenko is the winner by FAR!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oUJW_8KzzZc

LMFAO

that is the most pathetic flop in history of the NBA

[hater]

Kirilenko is the winner by FAR!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oUJW_8KzzZc

:lol

:owned

[td4mvp3]

what bothers me is how much this has become an issue. the players would be idiots not to exploit every rule they could, and it's not like they aren't actually getting hit most of the time just overacting the impact of the contact. everyone knows it so they should act accordingly. runninging into a guy who just scored on you is not acting accordingly. of course the refs are going to miss some calls, they're human. but this whole-scale outrage about the curse of flopping has gotten old. it's not about manu for me, it's that i'm so tired of every announcer piping up on how something was a flop and something else wasn't because one player obviously didn't hit the other guy that hard. yeah well, you go out there and let some 200-pound dude smack at you a couple of times, see how flopping sounds then. i wish folks would let it go and the problem would probably solve itself since refs wouldn't feel so burdened to nitpick about flops and none flops and rest of it.

[Borosai]

Fisher didn't get his first T because Manu exaggerated the contact. He got T'd up because he saw Manu coming, intentionally bumped him out of frustration, and most importantly, the ref saw it coming. Manu sold it, of course, but it was clearly premeditated, and that's why he got a tech.

Throughout the game, the refs weren't giving defenders the benefit of the doubt. To start the game, the Jazz went to the line a bunch of times, while the Spurs didn't shoot a single FT. Why? Aggressiveness. There were multiple times when the defenders took contact and fell, and the refs didn't call the offensive foul (Boozer lowered his shoulder into Manu, Parker bumped Williams out of the way). The offensive player got the benefit of the doubt in game 4, and since the Spurs (aka Manu) started attacking down the stretch, they benefited.

Manu did the smart thing and attacked. He ruined the series for the Jazz... that's all.

[Jimcs50]

So b/c Cold Pizza thinks Manu flopped all night means what? Who gives a shit what they think. Who watches that show anyway?


BTW, it is called First Take now, instead of Cold Pizza...sorry.

[spurastic]

The Spurs were being hammered (with no calls) for most of the night. If there was a flop or two later that got calls, then so be it. Karma a bitch.

[Budkin]

The Spurs were being hammered (with no calls) for most of the night. If there was a flop or two later that got calls, then so be it. Karma a bitch.

Exactly... how many no calls were there when Fisher and co were raking the shit out of Duncan's arms when he would turn into the lane?

[LifeOnaPlate]

AK rarely flops.

[hater]

AK rarely flops.

:lmao

[LifeOnaPlate]

I'm not kidding. If AK flopped a lot I'd call him on it; I hate flopping. Most noteably Collins and Fisher for the Jazz. I hate it.
The AK flop V. Golden state was a ridiculous flop, and uncharacteristic of AK, though. I watch every game, and can honestly say he rarely flops. I watched about 90 Jazz games this year. You've watched a total of maybe 8 or so.

[Marcus Bryant]

The refs ignored a bunch of true flops during the game. Manu put the ball on the floor repeatedly in the 4th and took it to the rim. The Jazz administered a bunch of hard hits on him in the process. Jazz Fan should wonder why their team wasn't doing likewise.

[hater]

I watched about 90 Jazz games this year. You've watched a total of maybe 8 or so.

Manu does not flop much anymore. I've watched 90 Spurs games, you've watched a total of maybe 8 or so.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Williams drove the lane several times in the 4th, Duncan fouled with the body, no call.Boozer however, played soft, and didn't try to draw the foul. He never does.

[Spurminator]

Manu was knocked all over the place last night. I hate flopping too, even when it's a Spur, but Game 4 is not a good game to draw from if you're looking for Manu's most egregious flops. He drove to the basket and got fouled.

It cracks me up that we seem to be the only team in the league who should be above flopping, and it's funnier that all of this whining is happening while we're playing two of the most frequent flopping teams in the league.

[Vito Corleone]

Here's the thing, I LOVE Manu Ginobili's game! Honestly. Ever since 2004-05, he was one of my favorite players to watch play. I just hate flopping. As I've said before, I hate the fact that Rip Hamilton flops. I think he's a drama queen. I hate that he tries to act like Rasheed and bitch about calls all the time. I still support him because he's on the Pistons, and I still think he has a great and unique game. But, I hate his flopping and drama.

I criticize Manu's flopping because he's simply TOO GOOD to have to resort to it. He doesn't need any flopping at all in his game to be effective. I think he's one of the best slashers in the game. And, I think he's one of the better defensive shooting guards in the game. I think he's clutch. He doesn't need to flop.

Why would I not criticize Fisher or Kirilenko about their flopping? Derek Fisher is and always will be a role player. He has to flop because he doesn't have the game to compete if he isn't taking every single advantage he can on the court. Kirilenko? This year, he proved to be a one trick pony and a fragile little girl. He is unstable and he isn't tough. I expect him to flop because he doesn't have the mental toughness not to do that stupid shit.

Manu is mentally tough. He's one of the toughest players in the league along with Allen Iverson and Kobe, in both mental toughness and being able to take physical contact. I truly believe that.

That's why I criticize Manu. He's too good to flop. He's too good.

There is no doubt that Manu flops, but he has reigned in the flopping this playoffs, last year it drove me nuts as it did in 2k5 but I think he has become very selective in his flopping this year. Tim is always called a whinner but since the end of the regular season he has reigned this in as well.

Getting upset at Tony falling down is silly, he drives to the hole and is almost always getting hammered. The other reason he falls down a lot is the speed he goes to the hole, it is called momentum and sometimes the safer thing to do is to fall down rather than go 20 feet into the crowd behind the basket.

Flopping has been part of the game since the 80's. The Lakers were masters at flopping with guys like Magic and Michael Cooper always going dramatic when trying to take a charge. The Pistons of the 90's and Jordan made an art of drawing contact and doing a flop.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs did a great job at contesting every shot and defensive rebounding in the 4th. They kept the Jazz out of the paint and left them with contested outside jumpers as their only option. That was the story on the defensive end and that was the level of defense I've seen from prior Spurs championship teams. Spurs need to put that shit in a bottle.

[samikeyp]

Manu flops? :nerd

[LifeOnaPlate]

I've actually watched every Jazz v Spurs game (8) every Spurs v Mavs game (4) almost every Spurs v Suns game (6) a pair of spurs v Laker games (2) a Spurs v. Detroit game, (1) and 5 Spurs v. Nuggets games (5) making a total of about 26 Spurs games, not 8. thanks though. The mere fact that you think AK flops all the time completely destroys your credibility, as a dedicated flop-hater watches every game and gets pissed every time a player flops, Jazzman or opponent. Flopping sucks.

[SpursFanJ]

It's interesting to me that players across the league flop nightly, but it's not until Manu (or any Spur) does it, that it becomes a story.

Well put... there's at least one player on every team that is the "designated flopper" and some teams have two or three that are pretty good at it. I never noticed flopping as much in the 70's and 80's until Dennis Rodman made it an art in the early 90's. Karl Malone was pretty good at it too. Bowen is a master at it because he can make it look like a foul no matter how much or how little contact there is because he knows exactly when to initiate the move (especially when the offensive player extends their off-arm and Bowen makes it look like a UFC forearm blow, stumbling down the court like he just took a severe blow to the head... it's pretty cool in slow-mo how he anticipates the contact).

Manu is pretty good at it, but sometimes he does look like a soccer player out there. Sometimes he flops and sometimes he actually gets knocked down... on the other hand, sometimes they call it and sometimes they don't. What about when Boozer blocked TD's shot and then ran to the other end, put his shoulder in Manu's chest, and made the jumper? It should have been an offensive foul and was not a flop, but it was a no-call. What about all the "reaching in" and "hacking" Utah gets away with that Mark "I want to marry Deron Williams" Jackson calls great defense? What about EVERY time Williams goes to the basket he extends his off arm and creates space?... it's a textbook offensive foul.

The media, DAL/PHO fans, etc., are still upset that GS beat DAL and SA beat PHO. They obviously wanted DAL or PHO to win their first title so they are going to blow every little call that goes in the Spurs favor way out of proportion. The media didn't care when DAL shot 50 FT's against the Spurs or when Dirk shot 30 by himself. The media didn't care about how unfair the calls were or how aggressive/dirty the Lakers were when they were winning titles from '00-'02. They used to push the Spurs, Kings, and Blazers around every year, got the benefit of all the calls, shot all the free throws, etc.

The problem is that it is a smaller group that are pro-Spurs and a larger group of Spurs-haters. When the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls were dominating the league it was 50/50... you either loved them or hated them.

[LifeOnaPlate]

My list of most egregious floppers in the league today includes Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson (mostly while on offense), Anderson Varajao, Raja Bell, Shane Battier, Jarron Collins, Derek Fisher, and Manu Ginobli. I may be leaving some out, but this list is pretty comprehensive, and I feel most NBA viewers would agree.

[Marcus Bryant]

There was a time when Karl Malone flew through the air nightly...

[LifeOnaPlate]

There's something spursfanj and I definitely agree on: Mark Jackson is a total tool.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Malone was a frequent flopper? Not hardly. He was a hard fouler, that's for sure. He hurt several guys with his elbows, or whatnot. As for flopping? Malone didn't pull that garbage. Accusing Malone of flopping is just stupid.

[hater]

Malone didn't pull that garbage.

yeah, Malone was too classy to attempt to flop.

He just tried to injure players :rolleyes

[samikeyp]

Malone was a frequent flopper? Not hardly. He was a hard fouler, that's for sure. He hurt several guys with his elbows, or whatnot. As for flopping? Malone didn't pull that garbage. Accusing Malone of flopping is just stupid.

He flopped, no more so than most NBA players and not to the degree you see it in today's NBA but flopped nonetheless. His big thing was leading with his knee.

[Marcus Bryant]

Malone was a frequent flopper? Not hardly. He was a hard fouler, that's for sure. He hurt several guys with his elbows, or whatnot. As for flopping? Malone didn't pull that garbage. Accusing Malone of flopping is just stupid.

:dramaquee

LMAO. Malone went to the hardwood countless times from the slightest of contact, often from guards so much smaller he could eat them. Man, that's Jazz fan homerism at its finest, which makes last night's win all the more sweet.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Say what you will, Malone was a lot of things, and did a lot of dirty things, that's undeniable, but to call him a flopper is just dumb.

[Marcus Bryant]

:spin

It's getting dizzy in here.

[George Gervin's Afro]

So let's tally the score so far. The Spurs are:
1. dirty
2. whiners
3. floppers
4. most hated team because of all of the above
5. winners :lol

If people want to hate us that's fine because it makes winning that much sweeter. I wonder if Chuck ( whom I really like) will still say Utah can come back and win the series.

[Guru of Nothing]

Utah invented the flop, kind of like the Rockets invented the lottery.

[samikeyp]

Say what you will, Malone was a lot of things, and did a lot of dirty things, that's undeniable, but to call him a flopper is just dumb.

So.....Malone never flopped?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Say what you will, Malone was a lot of things, and did a lot of dirty things, that's undeniable, but to call him a flopper is just dumb.


Your kidding right? I don't know how many times Avery Johnson knocked karl 'elbow-knee out to the chest' malone on his ass...


I want to add how glad I am to see that punk never win a ring.. :toast

[LifeOnaPlate]

It's true that whining about whining is kind of counter-productive.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I hate flopping no matter who does it. (Utah's biggest offender is Collins, not Fisher, though Fish gets his in.) During the Houston series Shane Battier flopped seven times during game 7, obvious, ridiculous flops. It was infuriating. Luckily, the officials stopped giving them to him.

The number one biggest flop offense I have ever seen came as Ginobli ran into fisher after a timeout and flopped, redulting in a technical on Fisher. HE FLOPPED WHILE THE BALL WAS OUT OF PLAY DURING A TIMEOUT. Lamest flop ever.what's even funnier is it looks like fisher flopped at the same time, but manu did a better job at it.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Flopping blows.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

AK rarely flops.

You must have missed him finishing off the Warriors with the greatest flop of all time on a late FT.

[hater]

Malone was the biggest flopper in the game in his time.

apparently the mailman's mail was always sent via ground shipping :lol

[LifeOnaPlate]

You must have missed him finishing off the Warriors with the greatest flop of all time on a late FT.


You must have missed me talking about how that flop was not only ridiculous, but uncharacteristic of AK. Example: Does Robert Horry flop "all the time"? Because he commited a pretty ridiculous flop in game 3, and was awarded with some free throws. Is this just a ridiculous flop? Or does it mean Horry flops "all the time"?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You must have missed me talking about how that flop was not only ridiculous, but uncharacteristic of AK. Example: Does Robert Horry flop "all the time"? Because he commited a pretty ridiculous flop in game 3, and was awarded with some free throws. Is this just a ridiculous flop? Or does it mean Horry flops "all the time"?

Well, using your argument one flop = always flopping. Horry flopped in game 3, so what, so did a couple of Jazz players too (hell, Collins picked up 3 offensive fouls on TD due to flops).

You want to know what's funny about it all? The biggest 'flop' you guys are whining about (Manu on the collision with Fisher), Fisher was trying to draw a charge and flopped as well, it's just Manu exaggerating the contact more than him.

So Manu flopped, so what. There was definitely a lot of contact, and if Manu holds his ground he gets whistled for the offensive foul and the Jazz get the ball back. But I'm sure you would have called out Fisher in that case, right? :rolleyes

[spurvert]

[QUOTE=Jimcs50]Cold Pizza begs the question, did Manu Ginobli "ruin" the series with all his flopping last night?
Below is a picture of one of Manu's obvious flops:


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070529/capt.ab1cc10b21d341129022cd2bc8299e60.spurs_jazz_b asketball_slcc112.jpg


haha, sloan always looks like a stressed out elder who just found out he had to ditch 3 of his 4 wives because of leagilty issues. oh, and i really don't like the blue mormon sea that threw debrit and carmex at the spurs. i really don't like that. they were like monkeys throwing feces at unsuspecting tourists at the zoo.. but somehow, manu probably shouldn't have taken their banana away! at least not eat it in front of them! haha!

[Tha Carter]

Malone was the biggest flopper in the game in his time.

apparently the mailman's mail was always sent via ground shipping :lollmfao

[Kori Ellis]

Disclaimer: I didn't read the whole thread, just the first few posts.

Manu flopped big time on the Fisher incident. Fisher barely bumped him and Manu flopped and flailed. But that didn't "ruin" the series, the Spurs were going to win anyway. And it's not like there was no contact at all with Fisher.

And, are Jazz fans complaining about flopping?

Oh My.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I was enjoying this series with Utah for the first three games specifically because the players were not flopping. It was actually basketball. But I quit watching last night because I hate the flopping- and Manu and Oberto are the worst culprits. It saddens me because Manu is my favorite player on the Spurs and I love to watch him play basketball- but I abhor the flopping. It makes it look like the team does not believe they can actually win playing basketball. It does not ruin it but it cheapens it. And it was out of control last night.

Great!

So we'll have no more analysis from you during the rest of the playoffs? Oh, happy day!

[MannyIsGod]

I was enjoying this series with Utah for the first three games specifically because the players were not flopping. It was actually basketball. But I quit watching last night because I hate the flopping- and Manu and Oberto are the worst culprits. It saddens me because Manu is my favorite player on the Spurs and I love to watch him play basketball- but I abhor the flopping. It makes it look like the team does not believe they can actually win playing basketball. It does not ruin it but it cheapens it. And it was out of control last night.Why am I not suprised this was posted?

[hater]

ploto never gave analysis, he just got anal

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Disclaimer: I didn't read the whole thread, just the first few posts.

Manu flopped big time on the Fisher incident. Fisher barely bumped him and Manu flopped and flailed. But that didn't "ruin" the series, the Spurs were going to win anyway. And it's not like there was no contact at all with Fisher.

And, are Jazz fans complaining about flopping?

Oh My.

This is what I said on my friend's new blog (http://freemarketsports.blogspot.com/)



Scooter, come on...you can't honestly tell me that:

A. Fisher flopped when Manu went behind the pick.

B. Fisher made a deliberate attempt to initiate contact with Manu while running back up the court.

Don't get me wrong, Manu flopped off that nudge (heavy breathing is more like it), but it further got into Fisher's head and that led to the "taunt" that got him ejected a few plays later. (It was a pretty weak taunt, but you're telling me a vet like Fisher doesn't know Javie's quick trigger and any attempt at unnerving Javie would lead to ejection)

Who knows? Maybe Fisher wanted an early shower since he flew out immediately after the game for a doctor's visit about his daughter and he knew the game was pretty much over at that point.

Both teams were flopping early and it's actually surprising that more didn't come of it the way bodies were flying all over in the first half.

And other than what I think were some quick triggers on the techs (again, any involved NBA fan, much less a player, should know about Javie's quick trigger), how was the refereeing irresponsible? If it's for any reason other than non-calls on flops both ways and quick triggers, I disagree with your assessment.

Utah collapses on the lane, they're going to eventually draw more fouls when teams start attacking the basket as Parker did in the first half and Manu in the fourth quarter. The Spurs attempt to not jump into jump shooters (save for the Oberto foul on Deron early in the first).

Now the question comes of how to assess penalties of flopping.

Personal foul, team technical?

Thoughts?

[PlaneFast]

Here's a flop by Parker. Do we hit people in the head as much as Utah does? (other than Nash, but head-to-head is a wash)

http://espn.go.com/photo/2007/0528/nba_g_parker_395.jpg

PlaneFast.com

[Jimcs50]

Disclaimer: I didn't read the whole thread, just the first few posts.

Manu flopped big time on the Fisher incident. Fisher barely bumped him and Manu flopped and flailed. But that didn't "ruin" the series, the Spurs were going to win anyway. And it's not like there was no contact at all with Fisher.

And, are Jazz fans complaining about flopping?

Oh My.

Kori, Manu did not flop on that play. If you look at it, Manu stumbled sideways, and Fisher, then flew sideways in an even more exaggerated movement...it was hilarious, because Fisher made the bump to draw contact, so he could flop, then Manu turned the tables on him and got the foul called instead.

:lol

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Am I really the only person that thought Fisher flopped on the previous play with Manu rolling around the pick?

[Kori Ellis]

To me, there's two kinds of flopping.

1. You don't get hit at all and fall to the ground like you got shot and flop like a fish :lol These kind of flops should be a foul (or tech) on the flopper.

2. You get hit (but not very hard) and exagerate the contact to make sure the ref calls it your way. This is crafty and shouldn't be penalized.

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, Manu did not flop on that play. If you look at it, Manu stumbled sideways, and Fisher, then flew sideways in an even more exaggerated movement...it was hilarious, because Fisher made the bump to draw contact, so he could flop, then Manu turned the tables on him and got the foul called instead.

:lol

Both Manu and Fisher flopped. Manu definitely exaggerated the contact.

Apparently he flops so well, he even fooled you. :spin

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

To me, there's two kinds of flopping.

1. You don't get hit at all and fall to the ground like you got shot and flop like a fish :lol These kind of flops should be a foul (or tech) on the flopper.

2. You get hit (but not very hard) and exagerate the contact to make sure the ref calls it your way. This is crafty and shouldn't be penalized.

I can agree to that. If there's contact, how do you make a judgment call over how hard the contact was when you might not have the full angle?

[hater]

Am I really the only person that thought Fisher flopped on the previous play with Manu rolling around the pick?

that was clearly flopping type 1(see Kori's post)

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

that was clearly flopping type 1(see Kori's post)

Another part of my thinking with that is: If you flop and there's a no-call (Fisher on the roll) and your man goes and scores, that's on you.

[Jimcs50]

Both Manu and Fisher flopped. Manu definitely exaggerated the contact.

Apparently he flops so well, he even fooled you. :spin

I might be a little biased.

:angel

[SpursWoman]

1) Robert Horry's monstrous flop in Game 3 of the Utah series. Big Flop Bob strikes again.


Horry has performed 2 of the worst, most blatant flops I've ever seen in my life during this series so far. :spin

[MadDog73]

Here's the thing, I LOVE Manu Ginobili's game! Honestly. Ever since 2004-05, he was one of my favorite players to watch play. I just hate flopping. As I've said before, I hate the fact that Rip Hamilton flops. I think he's a drama queen. I hate that he tries to act like Rasheed and bitch about calls all the time. I still support him because he's on the Pistons, and I still think he has a great and unique game. But, I hate his flopping and drama.

I criticize Manu's flopping because he's simply TOO GOOD to have to resort to it. He doesn't need any flopping at all in his game to be effective. I think he's one of the best slashers in the game. And, I think he's one of the better defensive shooting guards in the game. I think he's clutch. He doesn't need to flop.

Why would I not criticize Fisher or Kirilenko about their flopping? Derek Fisher is and always will be a role player. He has to flop because he doesn't have the game to compete if he isn't taking every single advantage he can on the court. Kirilenko? This year, he proved to be a one trick pony and a fragile little girl. He is unstable and he isn't tough. I expect him to flop because he doesn't have the mental toughness not to do that stupid shit.

Manu is mentally tough. He's one of the toughest players in the league along with Allen Iverson and Kobe, in both mental toughness and being able to take physical contact. I truly believe that.

That's why I criticize Manu. He's too good to flop. He's too good.


Well said sir.

[BlackFlagg]

"Ruin" the series... :lol :lol Yeah, ruined the series for Jazz fans is more like it.

So Manu can work a flop. BFD. Most players can (and do). Bottom line is, if the Jazz had won last night, this wouldn't have even been mentioned, much less had a topic built around it.

The Spurs simply owned some ass last night and played their hearts out. Stay tuned! There's more of that coming your way.

[TampaDude]

Kirilenko is the winner by FAR!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oUJW_8KzzZc

Damn...did somebody Taser him??? :lmao

[Borosai]

Fisher didn't get his first T because Manu exaggerated the contact. He got T'd up because he saw Manu coming, intentionally bumped him out of frustration, and most importantly, the ref saw it coming. Manu sold it, of course, but it was clearly premeditated, and that's why he got a tech.

Throughout the game, the refs weren't giving defenders the benefit of the doubt. To start the game, the Jazz went to the line a bunch of times, while the Spurs didn't shoot a single FT. Why? Aggressiveness. There were multiple times when the defenders took contact and fell, and the refs didn't call the offensive foul (Boozer lowered his shoulder into Manu, Parker bumped Williams out of the way). The offensive player got the benefit of the doubt in game 4, and since the Spurs (aka Manu) started attacking down the stretch, they benefited.

Manu did the smart thing and attacked. He ruined the series for the Jazz... that's all.

Great post. :clap

[Jimcs50]

"Ruin" the series... :lol :lol Yeah, ruined the series for Jazz fans is more like it.

So Manu can work a flop. BFD. Most players can (and do). Bottom line is, if the Jazz had won last night, this wouldn't have even been mentioned, much less had a topic built around it.

The Spurs simply owned some ass last night and played their hearts out. Stay tuned! There's more of that coming your way.

Bottom line is really that the media are pissed at SA and think they cheated to beat Phoenix and they will use any reason to belittle their accomplishments this season now.

We have to accept that SA will now be a hated team. Now, is it better to be ignored or be hated? That is the $64,000 question.

What do you think?

[LifeOnaPlate]

I think I failed to answer the threads initial question, so I will here: Manure's flop didn't "ruin" the series by any stretch of the imagination.

[BreezeHillBill]

My list of most egregious floppers in the league today includes Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson (mostly while on offense), Anderson Varajao, Raja Bell, Shane Battier, Jarron Collins, Derek Fisher, and Manu Ginobli. I may be leaving some out, but this list is pretty comprehensive, and I feel most NBA viewers would agree.
I always thought that John Stockton was the most consistent and obvious flopper.

[TampaDude]

Bottom line is really that the media are pissed at SA and think they cheated to beat Phoenix and they will use any reason to belittle their accomplishments this season now.

We have to accept that SA will now be a hated team. Now, is it better to be ignored or be hated? That is the $64,000 question.

What do you think?

As long as all the ghetto hucks don't start wearing Spurs gear because they think it's "gangsta", I'm fine with it...let the haters hate...we'll just keep on winning... :toast

[sa_butta]

I always thought that John Stockton was the most consistent and obvious flopper.2nd to Vlade Divac.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Neither are still in the leauge. Sorry, fellas. I said current players.

[sa_butta]

To me, there's two kinds of flopping.

1. You don't get hit at all and fall to the ground like you got shot and flop like a fish :lol These kind of flops should be a foul (or tech) on the flopper.
See Robert Horry in game three for expample.:spin

[LifeOnaPlate]

If ANYTHING "ruined" the series, so to speak, it is the fact that it is being made out to be "astericks," flops, whining about officiating, poor fan behavior, dumb nba conspiracy theories, etc. I wish it could just be about basketball.

[Obstructed_View]

Both Manu and Fisher flopped. Manu definitely exaggerated the contact.

Apparently he flops so well, he even fooled you. :spin

Fisher initiated the contact, and got punished for being both a bad actor and really stupid. He watched where Manu was going, veered into his path, turned his head away and stiffened up his shoulder to throw his weight into the collision. Manu didn't need to exaggerate the contact, he just made sure to take the hit squarely so the officials would get Fisher for doing something so stupid right on the heels of the previous play. The officials were going to tag Fisher for it regardless, and Manu knew that. The closest I saw to a real flop was on Fisher's second technical when Manu anticipated the foul and let Fisher pull him down.

[Amare_32]

I feel a case of deja vu.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Bottom line is really that the media are pissed at SA and think they cheated to beat Phoenix and they will use any reason to belittle their accomplishments this season now.

We have to accept that SA will now be a hated team. Now, is it better to be ignored or be hated? That is the $64,000 question.

What do you think?

I actually think the Spurs play better as the hated. Go back to the Phoenix series, they seemed to relish being the bad guys. Same for Denver.

[Obstructed_View]

If ANYTHING "ruined" the series, so to speak, it is the fact that it is being made out to be "astericks," flops, whining about officiating, poor fan behavior, dumb nba conspiracy theories, etc. I wish it could just be about basketball.
Agreed. To expand, if anything's ruining the series, it's east coast ESPN guys who didn't even stay up to watch the game repeating what they hear other people say without checking their facts. The rest of us can enjoy good basketball, because that's what this series has been, at least during the times both teams choose to show up.

[Marcus Bryant]

Horry has performed 2 of the worst, most blatant flops I've ever seen in my life during this series so far. :spin

Drawing an offensive foul on a 3 point attempt...that's probably one of the more rare calls in NBA history (and to anticipate Jazz Fan, yes, it was warranted).

[BeerIsGood!]

If this is a ruined series, tough play where the whistle mostly isn't blowing for minor to moderate contact but is for obvious hack jobs, I'll take it over a full blown whistle fest any day.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Horry caught Millsap in the chin trying to draw a foul on the three; luckily he got called for the offensive foul. Who does he think he is; Kobe?

As for obstructed view, ESPN broadcasts and programs suck. Period. You know as well as I do.

[conversekid]

I hate flopping no matter who does it. (Utah's biggest offender is Collins, not Fisher, though Fish gets his in.) During the Houston series Shane Battier flopped seven times during game 7, obvious, ridiculous flops. It was infuriating. Luckily, the officials stopped giving them to him.

The number one biggest flop offense I have ever seen came as Ginobli ran into fisher after a timeout and flopped, redulting in a technical on Fisher. HE FLOPPED WHILE THE BALL WAS OUT OF PLAY DURING A TIMEOUT. Lamest flop ever.

Right... cause fisher didn't stick his shoulder into him at all right :rolleyes

Manu didn't even hit the ground... het stumbled a bitl and regained his balance. You should be pised at Derik AKA WWJD Fisher for playing like a rookie.

[LifeOnaPlate]

I'm not excusing fisher, I'm saying Manure looked absolutely ridiculous flailing like a fool in that moment. What an ass; seriously. Aside from anything Fisher did, flailing like that was just unreal and silly. Makes the game look ridiculous.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Jazz looked pretty ridiculous hacking Ginobili and then whining about it as he drove repeatedly to the rim.

[LifeOnaPlate]

I'm not disputing Utah looking ridiculous in any sense; just waiting to see if any Spurs homers here on the board will admit that Manure's flop was lame.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Seems like all the folks here wanna do is pull the old red herring. (google it if you don't know what it means.)

[Marcus Bryant]

Translation: come to my world where the Jazz have never flopped and their shit smells like fresh flowers on the foothills of the Rockies.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not excusing fisher, I'm saying Manure looked absolutely ridiculous flailing like a fool in that moment. What an ass; seriously. Aside from anything Fisher did, flailing like that was just unreal and silly. Makes the game look ridiculous.
Manu got hit. Fisher flopped just before Manu's layup and then lined up Manu and took a shot at him. Manu just took Fisher's shoulder square and tried not to hit the ground. Fisher then flopped again after he hit Manu. Sorry our guy is smarter than your guy, but your attempts to call anyone other than Fisher unreal and silly is going to fall on deaf ears around here, especially if you are going to accuse people of being "spurs homers" if they don't agree with your biased and factually incorrect take.

[mardigan]

I'm not disputing Utah looking ridiculous in any sense; just waiting to see if any Spurs homers here on the board will admit that Manure's flop was lame.
Yea, if were talking about when Fisher bumped him then yea, it was pretty lame. But my whole thing is that Fisher innitiated the contact, he clearly went out of his way to put his body on Manu's, and that was pretty lame as well. He over-reacted, but who cares, a lot of NBA players would have done the same thing in that situation

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not disputing Utah looking ridiculous in any sense; just waiting to see if any Spurs homers here on the board will admit that Manure's flop was lame.
Since the Spurs got, what, four free throws out of it? I'd say it was pretty fucking smart.

[Marcus Bryant]

So basically the Jazz were beat at their own game in that sequence. :baby

[mVp]

Since the Spurs got, what, four free throws out of it? I'd say it was pretty fucking smart.

for real! :elephant

[Marcus Bryant]

I thought it was chickenshit that Sloan checked out of the game early. Pinning the blame for the loss on the refs is no way to prep for a road elimination game.

[BeerIsGood!]

I was disappointed in Sloan. He picked two of the most obvious plays to whine about and got himself tossed with arguments as logical as Amare's "I was going to check in" bullshit.

[ChumpDumper]

Fisher shouldn't have hit Manu and given him a chance to sell it.

jazzfan needs to recognize.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Manu ruined last year's WC(semi)F, that's for sure.

[Mr. Peabody]

Manu ruined last year's WCF, that's for sure.

Yeah, he ruined it by watching it on television with all of the other Spurs.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Yeah, he ruined it by watching it on television with all of the other Spurs.

because of one stupid foul

[LifeOnaPlate]

Fish was an idiot, no doubt. Manure's flop was really overstated, though. Honestly, it topped all flops of the night.

[BeerIsGood!]

Fish was an idiot, no doubt. Manure's flop was really overstated, though. Honestly, it topped all flops of the night.

The top flop of the night was the Fish flop right before his 1st T where he flew backwards on virtually no contact and gave up a layup. If I were Boozer I would have gotten in his face and told him to stay the fuck up and man up on D. That flop and his idiotic "bump" after the whistle is what sunk the Jazz for good in the game. Blame him.

[Fromthebleachers]

manu flops and everyone knows it. We sit here and argue it in these forums but thats said by the PLAYERS in this league as well as the fans. You wonder why you hear it everywhere and not just here? Hmm maybe its true dont you think? Besides, you people here weant to give him a red badge of courage just because he takes his hits during the game ... manu initiates about 90% of all the contact he recieves during the game. thats why hes effective. its also that recklessness that allows him to get by defenders. He tries to initiate the contact. When that fails he tries to draw contact. When that fails, he throws himself into and waits for a whistle. Billups is just as bad as anyone in the league at this.

Its the way it works. yes the man is seriously skilled, but its the reckless abandon he plays with that makes playing against him that much worse. (and also makes him very inconsistent)

and seriously we can all point to an instance or two where he deservedly took a hard foul. But did you also see that manu led with his knee into okur? thats why okur didnt hit him with his body and is also why manu was off balance and fell. the tnt crew pointed out as much during the telecast. you can make a picture show what you want, but its not the whole play.

[Obstructed_View]

Manu owns you all.

[Marcus Bryant]

He wasn't flopping when he was driving to the rim.

In any event, W.

[ChumpDumper]

Fish was an idiot, no doubt. Manure's flop was really overstated, though. Honestly, it topped all flops of the night.Not at all. He didn't fall down or anything. Just leaned.

Fish's fault.

[Behrooz24]

I'm not excusing fisher, I'm saying Manure looked absolutely ridiculous flailing like a fool in that moment. What an ass; seriously. Aside from anything Fisher did, flailing like that was just unreal and silly. Makes the game look ridiculous.

How do you think Fisher looked when unsuccessfully flopped time after time after time... :dizzy

[mVp]

The top flop of the night was the Fish flop right before his 1st T where he flew backwards on virtually no contact and gave up a layup. If I were Boozer I would have gotten in his face and told him to stay the fuck up and man up on D. That flop and his idiotic "bump" after the whistle is what sunk the Jazz for good in the game. Blame him.

no doubt... that was the biggest flop of the game, no contact at all on that screen

[ChumpDumper]

Fish was just embarrassing with his flops. He hit Manu out of jealousy.

[WalterBenitez]

Has Manu Ruined The Entire Game Of Basketball Worldwide???

And also did with the Universe .. that's why the universe is expanding :wakeup

[LifeOnaPlate]

Sorry, the Manure nickname is just a joke.

[smeagol]

Manu is the Devil (even to some Spurs fans)

[twentyone]

Manu flops. Jazz fan discuss amongst yourselves.

Be sure to play the Darth Vader theme if we come back for game 6 too, and don't forget your boooing, referee chants, crazy megaphone antics, and your empty beers. Those seem pretty effective, well as effective as your bitching and whining today.

[Ocotillo]

On the Ticket this morning they said this was David Sterns doing because they dont want the Spurs in the Finals, but they REALLY dont want the Jazz in the Finals.:rolleyes

If Milwaukee or Memphis ever makes it to the finals to face either the Spurs or Jazz Stern will just cancel the Finals if you believe all the conspiracy theorists. :lol

[cholo]

Right... cause fisher didn't stick his shoulder into him at all right :rolleyes

Manu didn't even hit the ground... het stumbled a bitl and regained his balance. You should be pised at Derik AKA WWJD Fisher for playing like a rookie.
:clap

fisher deserves everything that happened last night. he's a habitual flopper that got out hustled and out smarted

[BeerIsGood!]

If Milwaukee or Memphis ever makes it to the finals to face either the Spurs or Jazz Stern will just cancel the Finals if you believe all the conspiracy theorists. :lol

If Memphis ever makes the Finals to face the Spurs or Jazz somebody really fucked up along the way. Royally fucked up.

[Marcus Bryant]

If Memphis ever makes the Finals to face the Spurs or Jazz somebody really fucked up along the way. Royally fucked up.

Jerry West?

[LifeOnaPlate]

Jerry West?

haha :lol

[tlongII]

Manu hasn't ruined anything. The playoffs were ruined when Horry body-checked Nash into the boards and the league office issued its ridiculous suspensions of Diaw and Stoudamire. Probably the most unjust ruling in the history of the NBA.

[Borosai]

:dramaquee

[Obstructed_View]

Manu hasn't ruined anything. The playoffs were ruined when Horry body-checked Nash into the boards and the league office issued its ridiculous suspensions of Diaw and Stoudamire. Probably the most unjust ruling in the history of the NBA.
Horry's foul on Nash had nothing to do with the suspensions.

[tlongII]

Horry's foul on Nash had nothing to do with the suspensions.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigghht! :rolleyes