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nkdlunch
05-29-2007, 01:49 PM
The Debriefing: The Spurs Do Not Deserve Your Scorn
Posted May 21st 2007 9:00AM by mjd
Filed under: Spurs, NBA Playoffs, Featured Stories
http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/05/21/the-debriefing-the-spurs-do-not-deserve-your-scorn/

As there is with anything or anyone who dares to be great, there's a strong fan backlash against the San Antonio Spurs right now. But it doesn't feel like your normal we're-just-tired-of-them, New England Patriots-style backlash. It's more visceral. It's more hostile.

It strikes me as odd, because before the 2007 playoffs, no one hated the Spurs. They were the Winnie the Pooh of the NBA ... soft and harmless. If you felt anything towards Tim Duncan and his little friends, it was probably some combination of indifference and boredom. Now there's hatred flowing, and even more bizarre than that, there's a belief that they're a dirty team; a team of thugs, a belief that is so far out there. The Spurs are to thuggery as Celine Dion is to thuggery.

I thought maybe we should take a look at the reasons for the brand new animosity, and hopefully discard some of them so you don't have to spend the next two weeks getting a headache every time the Spurs win. From what I can gather, there are seven new reasons for the Spurs hatred. Let's plow through them.

1. Boris Diaw and Amare Stoudemire were suspended. No one likes the circumstances under which the Spurs won Game 5, including the Spurs themselves. I'm sure they'd rather have played the entire series at full strength (they'd have won anyway), and I'm sure they'd rather not deal with anyone putting an asterisk at the end of their win, or seeing the series as somehow tainted.

It's not like P.J. Carlesimo was behind the Suns bench with a cattle prod, jamming it in to the rectal cavities of Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw, making them get up and run. And it's not like Francisco Elson is the NBA's punishment czar. It may have been unfair, it may have been unfortunate ... but you can't pin it on the Spurs.

If you want to be mad at the NBA for having a dumb rule, fine, and if you want to get mad at Boris Diaw and Amare Stoudemire for leaving the bench, even better. But even if you think the suspensions were the most heinous thing to happen to basketball since the '98 Knicks, it's still not the Spurs fault.

2. Bruce Bowen is dirty. Well, yes. Bruce Bowen is dirty, maybe the dirtiest of all-time. Even Bill Laimbeer, recognized as the gold standard for basketball filth, did things that were designed mainly to piss people off. Bowen seems intent on actually crippling people.

But why is it just an issue now, when Bowen's been a dirty player for a long time? He kicked Ray Allen in the back, he kicked Wally Szczerbiak in the face, and he's got a long, long, long history of sticking his feet under the feet of jumpshooters returning to the ground.

Bowen had a history, long before he undercut Amare Stoudemire from behind and kneed Steve Nash in the coin purse. But it was just a history of violence, not necessarily a history of fan hatred. Now, all the sudden, he's basketball's Bill Romanowski. It's like getting mad at O.J., but not until he wrote that If I Did It book.

3. Tony Parker is French. You can't hold someone's Frenchness against them. Unless you're Bill O'Reilly.

4. Tim Duncan is a whiner. Duncan does his share of complaining, but if he's going into the "whiner" category, so is 75% of the NBA. Yes, he makes the gigantic "not me!" eyes, and yes, he's always indignant about his purity and innocence. But he's not the screaming and cursing type, he at least always seems respectful of officials and there's only one recorded incidence of an official wanting to fight him.

5. Robert Horry did a terrible thing to Steve Nash. He did. It was a hard and unnecessary foul. But it's not like we're talking about Anthony Mason here ... this is not a guy with "THUG LIFE" tattooed across his abs in big gothic letters. Robert Horry wants to be in a physical altercation about as much as Gregg Popovich wants to sing backup vocals for the Pussycat Dolls.

Horry screwed up on this one play, but what, now we're going to treat him like the next coming of Charles Oakley? Come on. Robert Horry is as harmless as it gets.

6. Fabricio Oberto is ugly. :lmao He is VERY UGLY! Oberto could hold an entire 12-pack of Red Stripe and still not be beautiful. But if we're going to hold ugly against people, then Scottie Pippen has to give all his rings back. :lol

7. Manu Ginobili flops and cries. Listen, I hate the flopping, too, but every team has a flopper. Steve Nash flops, Shawn Marion flops, Raja Bell is in the elite class of NBA floppers (Dwyane Wade is still untouchable at the top, though). Flopping is a leaguewide epidemic, and it's not exclusive to the Spurs or the Suns. Maybe Ginobili's among the worst, but he's not alone in this crime.

These are the reasons that come up, but it's that easy to make a similar list about any team in the NBA. I don't want to tell anyone who they can or can't like, but the anti-Spurs sentiment is raging right now when they're the same harmless team they were a year ago.

Which brings us to the real reason people don't like the Spurs, even if they're aware of it or not: the Spurs are the biggest obstacle standing in the way of a small ball revolution.

An inferior brand of small ball just toppled the Mavericks. But the superior brand has never been able to get past the Spurs. It might never be able to get past a smart, defensively responsible team with a truly dominant big man, but after Tim Duncan, how many of those are left?

The Suns, and to a lesser extent, the Warriors, have spoiled us. We all got high on fast breaks, quick shots and huge point totals. And if it wasn't for Greg Popovich's evil creation, we'd all spend our evenings watching James Jones hit open transition three-pointers, eating buckets of ice cream and giggling like four year-olds watching the Muppet Babies while sniffing nitrous oxide. :lol

But that's not the reality. The Suns play their style of basketball, maybe as well as it can be played. And everyone loves them, and everyone loves 220-point games, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Except for the fact that it can't beat the Spurs.

Solid D
05-29-2007, 02:14 PM
Meanwhile the Spurs beat the Suns using small-ball and one their most statistically productive lineups in the playoffs has been: Parker, Ginobili, Bowen, Finley and Duncan.

spursfaninla
05-29-2007, 02:17 PM
It strikes me as odd, because before the 2007 playoffs, no one hated the Spurs. They were the Winnie the Pooh of the NBA ... soft and harmless. If you felt anything towards Tim Duncan and his little friends, it was probably some combination of indifference and boredom.

hilarious but wrong.

Summers
05-29-2007, 02:17 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Oberto is the opposite of ugly?

spursfaninla
05-29-2007, 02:23 PM
I think oberto is normal looking.

But then, I'm not prone to be overly observant of man-looks.

GrandeDavid
05-29-2007, 02:25 PM
Smart ass cracks on the Spurs. How mature to call Fabricio Oberto ugly. :rolleyes

Melmart1
05-29-2007, 02:25 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Oberto is the opposite of ugly?
I don't think he is ugly at all. I always thought he was handsome. Maybe not hunky like Clooney, but definitely handsome.

leemajors
05-29-2007, 02:25 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Oberto is the opposite of ugly?

i just want to know where he gets that string/band to hold back his hair!

nkdlunch
05-29-2007, 02:31 PM
Smart ass cracks on the Spurs. F the idiot who wrote that trash. What a f@g in calling Oberto ugly.

uh, the article was actually complimenting the Spurs.

Basically saying those are stupid reasons to hate spurs

Marcus Bryant
05-29-2007, 02:32 PM
Double-doubles from the 5 spot, especially this season, are particularly sexy. Not that I swing that way, and, of course, not that there's anything wrong with that for those who do.

SA210
05-29-2007, 02:39 PM
good article :tu

Supergirl
05-29-2007, 02:40 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Oberto is the opposite of ugly?

No.

Supergirl
05-29-2007, 02:46 PM
I think the article is right, although the author makes it sound like if there were no Spurs, all the NBA champs would be small ballers. I'm not sure that's so.

The age of big, lumbering centers, a la Shaq, is coming to an end, but that doesn't mean there won't be big lumbering centers to come - hell, I'm not all that convinced from what I've seen that Greg Oden isn't that type of center - and besides, even with smaller, more athletic centers, I'm not sold on that you can win a 7 game series without a commitment to defense.

Maybe when the NBA switches to the NCAA 1-and-done model of playoffs, then a team like Golden State will win it all. But not till then.

Meanwhile, the problem with the Suns isn't their small ball, it's their lack of commitment to playing D. Amare has the potential to be as good as TD someday - under the right coach. He needs to commit to playing D and grow up emotionally. Will he do that while Nash still has some gas left in him? I don't know. And the Mavs didn't lose because they play small - they lost because they allowed GS to dictate the pace and the tempo, and because Dirk mentally broke down.

GrandeDavid
05-29-2007, 02:51 PM
uh, the article was actually complimenting the Spurs.

Basically saying those are stupid reasons to hate spurs

Yeah, I'm getting ahead of myself today, trying to post while working. I honestly missed that. My bad.

conqueso
05-29-2007, 02:53 PM
The Debriefing: The Spurs Do Not Deserve Your Scorn
Posted May 21st 2007 9:00AM by mjd
Filed under: Spurs, NBA Playoffs, Featured Stories
http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/05/21/the-debriefing-the-spurs-do-not-deserve-your-scorn/
2. Bruce Bowen is dirty. Well, yes. Bruce Bowen is dirty, maybe the dirtiest of all-time. Even Bill Laimbeer, recognized as the gold standard for basketball filth, did things that were designed mainly to piss people off. Bowen seems intent on actually crippling people.

But why is it just an issue now, when Bowen's been a dirty player for a long time? He kicked Ray Allen in the back, he kicked Wally Szczerbiak in the face, and he's got a long, long, long history of sticking his feet under the feet of jumpshooters returning to the ground.

Bowen had a history, long before he undercut Amare Stoudemire from behind and kneed Steve Nash in the coin purse. But it was just a history of violence, not necessarily a history of fan hatred. Now, all the sudden, he's basketball's Bill Romanowski. It's like getting mad at O.J., but not until he wrote that If I Did It book.

Did anyone see Parker last night in the first quarter contest a DWill three pointer and come down right beneath his feet, causing him to slightly stumble? This is the same shit that has happened to Bowen a handful of times. So is Parker dirty, trying to "cripple" people?

No. Dumb people think that a move like that is necessarily dirty. Even dumber people think that a slower guy backing off a quick penetrator and jumping towards them to contest a long jumper is dirty.

Have these people ever played basketball before? I played in high school and college and now lumber up and down the court wheezing once or twice a week. I have had people come down on my feet while I was contesting their jumper probably 5 times that I can remember. Never was I actually trying to "cripple" them, or even get in their head. My feet landed there because that's the place my forward momentum took them. Bowen has played literally THOUSANDS more minutes than I have. And it's happened to him about the same amount.

Where the fuck are people getting this "dirty" shit from? Fucking egomaniacs like Ray Allen, Vince Carter, and Stephon Marbury who get owned by Bowen from time to time? They actually TRUST those people's appraisal of Bowen's intent? HAVE THEY CONSIDERED THE SOURCE?

Jesus.

SpursWoman
05-29-2007, 02:53 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Oberto is the opposite of ugly?


I think he's sexy looking. :tu

boutons_
05-29-2007, 02:57 PM
As always, when they know fuck all about basketball, they write "People" and Teeny bopper/fan mag gossip shit.

Extra Stout
05-29-2007, 03:30 PM
Smart ass cracks on the Spurs. How mature to call Fabricio Oberto ugly. :rolleyes
Did you mean smart-ass cracks or smart ass-cracks?

ClingingMars
05-29-2007, 03:39 PM
nice article, the O'Reilly crack turned me off, but other than that, it was well written.

-Mars

LilMissSPURfect
05-29-2007, 04:09 PM
Scottie Pippen has to give all his rings back.


;-)

BreezeHillBill
05-29-2007, 04:10 PM
I think oberto is normal looking.

But then, I'm not prone to be overly observant of man-looks.Look at it from the other perspective. There are some SERIOUS uglies in the NBA and Fab ain't even close.

foodie2
05-29-2007, 04:42 PM
Look at it from the other perspective. There are some SERIOUS uglies in the NBA and Fab ain't even close.

Exactly. I think Fabricio is nice-looking, and I don't think Scottie Pippen is seriously ugly either--not in the class of, say,

AK47
Okur
Deron Williams
and of course, the ever-popular Sam Cassell.

hendrix
05-29-2007, 04:59 PM
Maybe it's some american thing... Here in Argentina, Oberto is seen as very good looking and sexy and... God! I think I like Oberto....

ATXSPUR
05-29-2007, 05:14 PM
meh...some good parts...some stupid.

Obstructed_View
05-29-2007, 05:16 PM
Maybe it's some american thing... Here in Argentina, Oberto is seen as very good looking and sexy and... God! I think I like Oberto....
Oberto's a hero in Argentina. Do they think Scola's good looking, too?

hendrix
05-29-2007, 05:23 PM
You got to be kidding. He is really ugly.

TwoHandJam
05-29-2007, 05:33 PM
I stopped reading after he mentioned Bowen might be the dirtiest of all time. Anyone who puts Bowen in the same universe as Laimbeer and fails to even mention the dirtiest of all players, Karl Malone, is ignorant beyond comprehension.

Strike
05-29-2007, 05:35 PM
Most players that actually play DEFENSE are called dirty at one time or another.

And putting Bowen in the same discussion as players like Laimbeer or Malone is laughable. Malone and Laimbeer tried to hurt people. I don't think the same is true about Bowen.

Phenomanul
05-29-2007, 05:38 PM
The article's take on Bowen is lazy.

Obstructed_View
05-29-2007, 05:38 PM
The most intentional thing I've ever seen Bowen do was when he kicked Ray Allen, and my kids have kicked me harder than that, so if Bowen's out to hurt people, he must really suck at it considering all the opportunities he has.

bonesinaz
05-29-2007, 05:42 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Oberto is the opposite of ugly?

No. I am with you and I am a woman. I think it is very stupid when men discuss the appearance of other men. That is because most of the men I know think that they are the best looking thing anyone has laid eyes on.

Obstructed_View
05-29-2007, 05:45 PM
No. I am with you and I am a woman. I think it is very stupid when men discuss the appearance of other men. That is because most of the men I know think that they are the best looking thing anyone has laid eyes on.
I wondered about that. What a guy would consider "grungy" a woman might consider "rugged".

Cant_Be_Faded
05-29-2007, 06:01 PM
I guess we all had the facts in front of us but I never actually saw us as the 'biggest obstacle to a small ball revolution'

That's kinda freaky and scary. After last year's defeat I figured Small Ball era was in full effect. But here we are, 1 win away from another finals appearance.

The thing is, Spurs don't play 'non small ball' or anything, we are like the chameleons of the NBA, and have been since 2005.

LavaLamp
05-29-2007, 06:13 PM
I agree with this article.

I see Tim Duncan as the most powerful sentinel, and perhaps the last one, holding back this growing tide of small ball which threatens to deluge the NBA. Just an observation... when TD is bothered by foul trouble or is out of the game, the Spurs become an ordinary team... still great, but now somehow beatable by other good teams... lacking the impenetrable defense that only TD provides.

Who can fill TD's shoes either within the Spurs organization or in other teams?

As regards small ball, teams cannot survive on small ball alone. Even San Antonio plays small ball when the situation calls for it, and they play it as well as the best of them. True strength lies in versatility and the Spurs can switch from a half-court game to small ball very quickly.

Marcus Bryant
05-29-2007, 06:14 PM
Who can fill TD's shoes either within the Spurs organization or in other teams?

I guess we'll find out in 5 years.

Don Quixote
05-29-2007, 06:34 PM
Maybe it's some american thing... Here in Argentina, Oberto is seen as very good looking and sexy and... God! I think I like Oberto....

You know ... I think I have a man-crush on Oberto too.

Is this bad? :(

GrandeDavid
05-29-2007, 06:35 PM
Did you mean smart-ass cracks or smart ass-cracks?

:lmao

I meant the non-gay comment. :lmao :lmao

conqueso
05-29-2007, 06:42 PM
I guess we'll find out in 5 years.

Oden might be the next big obstacle to the small-ball onslaught. Or he might be the next Sam Bowie. I think this small ball thing is a fad, and when you look at the last 8 champions, all had a strong interior defensive presence and didn't live off the fast break or the three. If Phoenix keeps getting shut out of the Finals, the message will finally sink in with the GMs...going small only gets you part of the way there. The inferior teams for whom something is better than nothing (e.g. Golden State) will still play small and quick, but the teams that really want to make it over the hump and seriously compete for a championship will anchor their lineup with a defensive-minded big. Or at least that's what I hope.

LavaLamp
05-29-2007, 06:59 PM
the problem with the Suns isn't their small ball, it's their lack of commitment to playing D.


That is my assessment as well. It's as if they are thinking, we can always get it back at the other end... well, what if the opponent doesn't let you?

Chris
05-29-2007, 07:09 PM
Sexy article. Popeye Jones is a mutated Reggie Miller, and gets my vote for ugliest player of all time. :tu

smeagol
05-29-2007, 07:20 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Oberto is the opposite of ugly?
He is Argentine. He cannot be ugly. :spin

wildbill2u
05-29-2007, 07:40 PM
The age of big, lumbering centers, a la Shaq, is coming to an end, but that doesn't mean there won't be big lumbering centers to come"

True, but I think we may see a new age of big athletic centers and big men a la Greg Oden who may take the game back above the rim again to oohs and aaahhs of the fans.

I mean these kids keep getting bigger and more athletic all the time. They may have to raise the basket and widen the lane again.

ClingingMars
05-29-2007, 08:10 PM
My friend who was an Argentinian exchange student last year went on and on about the Spurs and Ginobili when he was here. But no mention of Oberto...

-Mars

Deb
05-29-2007, 08:15 PM
Exactly. I think Fabricio is nice-looking, and I don't think Scottie Pippen is seriously ugly either--not in the class of, say,

AK47
Okur
Deron Williams
and of course, the ever-popular Sam Cassell.
And, what about Rodman? I'd put him at the top of the list of freak uglies

Cherry
05-29-2007, 08:25 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Oberto is the opposite of ugly?


no ;)

MaNuMaNiAc
05-29-2007, 08:31 PM
Oberto's a hero in Argentina. Do they think Scola's good looking, too?You'd be surprised to see how many people don't even know who he is :lol Hero is stretching things. Manu is definately a hero here, Oberto... not so much. Although if he keeps playing like he's been playing, and ofcourse the Spurs win a championship, the local media will see to it that he turns into one, that's for damn sure.

greens
05-29-2007, 11:16 PM
Can't say it's that good of an article when the writer basically says, "Bowen seems intent on actually crippling people."

I don't agree with that at all. Bruce is not the type of person to ever intentionally want to hurt someone physcially. He is the best perimeter defender who just frustrates the high scoring players. And he does his job so well. But he is not dirty in any way. Why such hate for Bruce in this paragraph:

2. Bruce Bowen is dirty. Well, yes. Bruce Bowen is dirty, maybe the dirtiest of all-time. Even Bill Laimbeer, recognized as the gold standard for basketball filth, did things that were designed mainly to piss people off. Bowen seems intent on actually crippling people.

But why is it just an issue now, when Bowen's been a dirty player for a long time? He kicked Ray Allen in the back, he kicked Wally Szczerbiak in the face, and he's got a long, long, long history of sticking his feet under the feet of jumpshooters returning to the ground.

Bowen had a history, long before he undercut Amare Stoudemire from behind and kneed Steve Nash in the coin purse. But it was just a history of violence, not necessarily a history of fan hatred. Now, all the sudden, he's basketball's Bill Romanowski. It's like getting mad at O.J., but not until he wrote that If I Did It book.


Overall, I would have liked the article...but the Bruce insults made me hate it...lol.

And I don't think Oberto is ugly...I believe that Pop used to say that he is an "ugly player" but not "physically" ugly...lol. And I'm a girl...just saying from a female point of view, he ain't ugly.

Cry Havoc
05-29-2007, 11:38 PM
For those of you interested, here's the commercial he's referencing:

http://digg.com/lbv.php?id=1836683&ord=1

The article wasn't completely true, but it made me laugh. He gets HUGE points for actually being witty instead of just focusing on how impossibly accurate his takes are.

AnotherArgie
05-29-2007, 11:53 PM
Am I the only person who thinks Oberto is the opposite of ugly?

I thought the same thing. I always wondered if by "ugly" you americans were refering to "bad looking" or something regarding his play, like "marion's ugly jumper". But when he compared him to Pippen, I understood it clearly.

It might be cultural standards of beauty. I think Oberto is a good looking guy. I wouldn't introduce him to my girlfriend, for instance.

And if you consider he's 6'10, he's even more good looking. How many good looking big men are around?

Flex9050
05-29-2007, 11:57 PM
Look at it from the other perspective. There are some SERIOUS uglies in the NBA and Fab ain't even close.

Everyone seems to be forgetting Larry Bird. Great, great player. One seriously ugly dude.

AnotherArgie
05-29-2007, 11:59 PM
Do they think Scola's good looking, too?

Not at all :lol

AnotherArgie
05-30-2007, 12:12 AM
No. I am with you and I am a woman. I think it is very stupid when men discuss the appearance of other men. That is because most of the men I know think that they are the best looking thing anyone has laid eyes on.

We wouldn't think so if you women were not faking orgasms :lol