Where would you rank Manu as a closer in the NBA?

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

in regards to others in his position?

[ArgSpursFan]

all time top 20

[ChumpDumper]

"very good"

[SA210]

My 1st pick

[Mr. Body]

Very good, as above.

[spursgrl20]

all time top 20

:tu

[eisfeld]

Among Active players... Top 10. His fourth quarter runs are unbelievable when he has the rhythm. He had his ups and downs in his career and in big games (like the Dallas series last year). When Manu is hot he's pretty much unstoppable in money time. At this point of his career I'd still rank T-Mac, Tim, Kobe, Shaq and Reggie Miller higher. But considering that he still has some seasons left I'd say he might go down in the top 15 in this category.

[Ocotillo]

Among Active players... Top 10. His fourth quarter runs are unbelievable when he has the rhythm. He had his ups and downs in his career and in big games (like the Dallas series last year). When Manu is hot he's pretty much unstoppable in money time. At this point of his career I'd still rank T-Mac, Tim, Kobe, Shaq and Reggie Miller higher. But considering that he still has some seasons left I'd say he might go down in the top 15 in this category.

TMac?

[timvp]

In today's game, he's up there. When he's in rhythm and has confidence, there aren't many other players I'd rather have in the fourth quarter of a big game.

However, it's early to start putting him on all-time lists. If he adds another championship to his resume, then perhaps it'll be time.

[whottt]

When he's on he's one of the best ever...but he's not on as much as some others have been. It'd be nice if he had the consistency of a guy like Vinnie Johnson...

[whottt]

In today's game, he's up there. When he's in rhythm and has confidence, there aren't many other players I'd rather have in the fourth quarter of a big game.

However, it's early to start putting him on all-time lists. If he adds another championship to his resume, then perhaps it'll be time.



What hurts him is the same thing that keeps him from being an MVP caliber guard...consistency.

Consistency is under-rated

Sin,

Duncan

[WalterBenitez]

Top 10 for sure ... but there're many good players in the league.

[timvp]

What hurts him is the same thing that keeps him from being an MVP caliber guard...consistency.

Yeah for one stretch this season, he was the best player in the NBA. He was just dominating the league. Then he can have a stretch like he did earlier in the playoffs where you wonder if his glory days are over.

With Manu you just have to hope that he's healthy and playing well at the right time. And right now is a good time to be healthy and playing well.

[eisfeld]

TMac?

Yes, It's the same with him than with Manu. When T-Mac found his rhythm he's pretty much the same like Manu. The main difference is that Manu does it more often. But considering that T-Mac is much longer in the league than Manu he's still above him.

[rob5]

Top 10 for sure ... but there're many good players in the league.
yeah, and most of them are on vacation right now.

[mVp]

When he gets hot he's easily in the top ten

[ALVAREZ6]

However, it's early to start putting him on all-time lists. If he adds another championship to his resume, then perhaps it'll be time.:lol You sound as if you're not expecting another one with that IF.




It's only a matter of weeks.

[WalterBenitez]

yeah, and most of them are on vacation right now.

you owned me :p:

[LilMissSPURfect]

Manuficent!!!!!!

[temujin]

There are very few players in the history of basketball that I have seen that can be compared to Emanuel Ginobili.
He is probably the most incredible player that ever played here in italy.
It's not the stats.
It's not the dunks, fastbreaks, passes, defense, 3 pointers.

It's all of that, when it matters, with style and no effort.

In one word.

Class.

100% pure, crystal clear class.

[romain.star]

it's funny to see how quick things change in here... one or two weeks ago, he was a joke and now he's an all of famer...

He must be somewhere in between

[ArgSpursFan]

what Manu has ,It doenst show in the stats sheets.Simple
A big pair of Argentinian Balls.And ice-cold blood.

[Marcus Bryant]

What other current 2 or 3 would you want in a situation like the start of the 4th in last night's game? Kobe? Anyone else? Manu is definitely in elite company when it comes to winning time.

[temujin]

what Manu has ,It doenst show in the stats sheets.Simple
A big pair of Argentinian Balls.And ice-cold blood.


Absolutely.

Balls.
Desire.

GREED.

[CosmicCowboy]

Manu has incredible hustle and balls as big as grapefruit, but top 20 all time talk is not only premature but presumptuous.

He's a perfect fit for the Spurs system and the Spurs system is a perfect fit for him.

His streakiness would be exposed on a team where he had to be "the man" every night and didn't have other players to draw double teams.

[temujin]

it's funny to see how quick things change in here... one or two weeks ago, he was a joke and now he's an all of famer...

He must be somewhere in between

By now, Manu could sit there and end up in the hall of fame already.

[Martin R]

sorry, but are we talking of a possible HALL OF FAMER Manu, here?

I think so, but I am too biased to speak. lol.

[temujin]

Manu has incredible hustle and balls as big as grapefruit, but top 20 all time talk is not only premature but presumptuous.

He's a perfect fit for the Spurs system and the Spurs system is a perfect fit for him.

His streakiness would be exposed on a team where he had to be "the man" every night and didn't have other players to draw double teams.

He wouldn't play for loosers.

Why would he?

[ducks]

Manu has incredible hustle and balls as big as grapefruit, but top 20 all time talk is not only premature but presumptuous.

He's a perfect fit for the Spurs system and the Spurs system is a perfect fit for him.

His streakiness would be exposed on a team where he had to be "the man" every night and didn't have other players to draw double teams.be quiet you are stating facts people do not like

[CosmicCowboy]

He wouldn't play for loosers.

Why would he?

uhhh...if they drafted him maybe?

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure, if he was expected to play 35 to 38 minutes a night every season I don't think he could perform at that level consistently. Fortunately, in SA he doesn't have to do so. In terms of perimeter players who can take over a playoff game in the most hostile arena in the league, I am hard pressed to name 3 other than Ginobili.

[GrandeDavid]

Manu is top five. He's s fierce warrior come fourth quarters, absolutely fearless and nearly peerless.

[Marcus Bryant]

Kobe
Nash

[mardigan]

Kobe
Nash
To add to that, Wade and Dirk can both take over a game, and Arenas is money with the last shot, but Manu is still in the conversation. As far as non-superstars, I dont know who else you would want

[Marcus Bryant]

This playoffs made me drop Dirk off that, but definitely overlooked Wade (when healthy).

[5ToolMan]

Manu has incredible hustle and balls as big as grapefruit, but top 20 all time talk is not only premature but presumptuous.

He's a perfect fit for the Spurs system and the Spurs system is a perfect fit for him.

His streakiness would be exposed on a team where he had to be "the man" every night and didn't have other players to draw double teams.

I think it would be quite the opposite. Manu gets on his biggest runs when he has to be the man because Tim and Tony are on the pine resting and/or when it is real money time AND the other options are not working at the level the Spurs desire.

A large part of the problem with "Manu's consistancy" is a lack of the average fan being able to understand what Manu does in many other ways to make the Spurs a better team, even if it requires him to sacrifice his game.

[CosmicCowboy]

I dunno. Put them in the Spurs system playing with Tim Duncan and getting Manu minutes/role and there are a lot of players that would probably come up big. Granted, most of the ones I'm thinking about are getting max money so it's probably not a fair comparison.

If you asked me to name another player making the same money as Manu I would want I wouldn't be able to pick one I would rather have.

[temujin]

uhhh...if they drafted him maybe?

So what?
He has all the choices.
Always had.

Not winning?
Forget about Manu.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

The key is: WHEN MANU IS ON HIS GAME



when he is, I would put him ONLY behind Kobe and Flash as closer



he may pass Wade if he keeps this up in these playoffs

[SA210]

Manuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!

[Jimcs50]

Today, I would rate him right up there with Nash and Kobe, with Kobe being the best and Nash 2nd.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Manu is as clutch as they come, but I reckon non-Spurs fans would probably put Kobe ahead of him in today's NBA, and a healthy Wade.

I think a good test is against LeBron - would you rather close a game with LeBron or Manu? I'd take Manu every time.

In fact, Manu is my favourite non-bigman of all time (my favourite players are DRob, Tim and Hakeem), primarily because of his amazing instincts and ability in the clutch.

[Jimcs50]

oops, I see someone already beat me to it.


I must be right.

:)

[ManuTastic]

It's a great question. Here's how you answer it:
Imagine this:your team is down 2 with 12 seconds left. You have the ball out on the sideline. Out of all active players in the league, who do you want to have the ball?

You can say Manu, and I'm damn glad Spurs have him. I love him too. But my answer to the above question is, without hesitation, Kobe. He's a killer. End of story.

[wildbill2u]

Think about this: The Spurs have one of the greatest players in the game in Tim Duncan. And a nifty lightning fast All-star guard who often shoots 50%

But whose hands do they put the ball into in the 4th quarter of close games? Manu.

Because he has skills, especially in the free throw shooting to take a team to victory in close games. When it counts, he'll score and get fouled and with ice water in his veins you can count on him to make the FT.

It's a matter of desire, of will to win if you like, and can't be taught. He has it.

[aaronstampler]

It depends what your definition of clutch is. If the situation is like 5 seconds to go, down by 2, there are probably 20 other active players I'd rather give the ball to, including Tim and Robert on the Spurs.

But if the situation is like, down by 7 entering the 4th quarter of a Game 7, then Manu is right up there with Kobe and Wade as guys to keep giving the ball to repeatedly.

[ClingingMars]

FT, FT, FT. Who is one of the best shooting FT guards of the ones who we are talking about? Manu Ginobili.

-Mars

[exstatic]

sorry, but are we talking of a possible HALL OF FAMER Manu, here?

I think so, but I am too biased to speak. lol.
If you consider that Drazen Petrovic is in the Hall with about the same type of NBA career, then Manu, with his comprehensive body of work in Euroleague, FIBA and NBA could certainly be enshrined. It's not the NBA hall of fame. It encompasses NBA players, refs, coaches, front offices, and their international counterparts, plus women.

[mikekim]

In today's game, he's up there. When he's in rhythm and has confidence, there aren't many other players I'd rather have in the fourth quarter of a big game.

However, it's early to start putting him on all-time lists. If he adds another championship to his resume, then perhaps it'll be time.

That's just the thing. "When he's in rhythm and has confidence." The truly big-time clutch guys don't need to be in rhythm and have confidence to be clutch. They always have confidence and get themselves into rhythm.

But this is more of a clock winding down on the game sort of clutch that i'm speaking of. Like someone else mentioned, for a 4th quarter pressure packed situation, manu is good. But again, I think he needs more time than some other high-caliber clutch guys to get himself rolling and in rhythm. But once he gets there, look out.

I love manu though. I just carefully hand-washed his jersey with utmost care in the sink and it is laying out to dry (hanging might stretch the thing)...haha. I don't think that has anything to do with the subject at hand but just thought I'd let you guys know that :)

[Nikos]

These past few years he has been poor in the clutch, at least in the playoffs. By clutch I mean last 5 minutes, where the two teams battling are within 5 points of each other. He has been turnover prone this playoffs too. In 2005 he was awesome in the regular season and playoffs in the clutch.

But clutch can also be just having an excellent overall game at a crucial juncture of a series. Manu has done that for most playoffs.

Overall this year I would say hes subpar in the 5 minute and under clutch. But he has the capability to be all star calibur in that regard. I guess what I am saying is hes not really elite in this area anymore, but sometimes he shows flashes of brilliance.

[smeagol]

I dunno. Put them in the Spurs system playing with Tim Duncan and getting Manu minutes/role and there are a lot of players that would probably come up big.

I don't agree.

Duncan is not the reason Manu plays with the fire he does when crunch time comes.

Yes, Duncan makes people around him better. That I agree with.

But the way Manu turns it on in crucial games, or sometimes just 4th quarters of crucial games, has very little to do with TD and a lot to do with Manu.

[smeagol]

These past few years he has been poor in the clutch, at least in the playoffs. By clutch I mean last 5 minutes, where the two teams battling are within 5 points of each other. He has been turnover prone this playoffs too. In 2005 he was awesome in the regular season and playoffs in the clutch.

But clutch can also be just having an excellent overall game at a crucial juncture of a series. Manu has done that for most playoffs.

Overall this year I would say hes subpar in the 5 minute and under clutch. But he has the capability to be all star calibur in that regard. I guess what I am saying is hes not really elite in this area anymore, but sometimes he shows flashes of brilliance.
He was money yesterday. He was money in games five and six against the Suns (the three mos important games, up to now, of these playoffs).

He was clutch in almost all important games in the 2005 championship. And if he hadn't committed that stupid foul in game 7 against Dallas, he would be considered even more clutch because he was money that 4th quarter, igniting the run to overcome a double digit deficit and hitting the clutch three to win the game.

[cherylsteele]

sorry, but are we talking of a possible HALL OF FAMER Manu, here?

I think so, but I am too biased to speak. lol.
Actually, HOF is not out of the question. Don't they base hall credentials for international players as well on how they play on the international scene? You can't limit the HOF for just NBA players. If you base his HOF possibility on his overall career credentials and include international play and such, I would think he would be a lock IMO.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

He's no Kyra Sedgewick.

[Nikos]

He was money yesterday. He was money in games five and six against the Suns (the three mos important games, up to now, of these playoffs).

He was clutch in almost all important games in the 2005 championship. And if he hadn't committed that stupid foul in game 7 against Dallas, he would be considered even more clutch because he was money that 4th quarter, igniting the run to overcome a double digit deficit and hitting the clutch three to win the game.

I understand he is still highly efficient in many big games. But I am talking about the last 5 minutes of games where neither team is up by more than 5 pts. If you look at 82games.com they have those stats for the regular season and playoffs, and Manu's best was the 05 playoffs in terms of clutch scoring, and passing.

You can't really say Manu is as clutch as someone like Dwayne Wade. Not even close. But yeah amongst perimeter players he has put together an extremely clutch 2005 NBA Playoffs that rivals most guards in the history of the NBA Playoffs. But some of that also has to do with getting the opportunity to play on a championship team, which means less focus on him, and also more opportunities to win and play well.

I am sure there are a lot of guys who can score as well or better than Manu. Not too many can do better than he did in the 05 playoffs, but plenty can do as well or better than he has in the past two playoff seasons. Not a knock on Manu or anything, he just isn't playing like an all-star these past two playoffs as a whole.

[GSH]

Guys like T-Mac have nights when they just feel it. Sometimes the other team gives them a couple of open looks or free throws, and they find a rhythm. And if those guys even think they feel it, they're going to shoot the ball every trip down the floor. People tend to forget about all the times when they miss shot after shot and let their teams sink like a rock.

Manu does it by sheer force of will. When the team is in rhythm, Many isn't going to call his own number. When the team really needs it, you can just see him dig deep and step up. You can read it in his face, and he basically says, "There is no way I am going to let us lose this game."

Do you remember a couple of years ago, when the Spurs played a road game in Phoenix, without Tim Duncan. We were in a race for the best record, and the Suns were playing really well. It was pretty much assumed that the Spurs needed Duncan if they were going to be able to stay on the court with Phoenix. Manu just went ape-shit that night. There was never any question of whether he was "feeling it" or not. From the time he walked onto the floor, he was going to take it to Phoenix...and he did. I think we wound up losing a close game that night, but that doesn't take anything away from what Manu did. He found what he needed inside, and went after the whole Suns team. And he knew he was going to do it. There was no question of whether he was feeling his stroke that particular night. Nothing was going to stop him.

I've seen similar performances out of players...once, maybe twice. But there aren't many who have been able to pull it out at will, and at need, the way Manu has. I don't know how he ranks against other players. Frankly, I think comparisons like that are silly. If you were judging him on pure shooting skills, or pure ball-handling skills, you would have a lot of other names on the list. But for sheer willpower, and the ability to back it up? Manu has to make your short list. Throw in his track record in the Olympics and International competition, and he should probably be on a list by himself. I just don't know exactly what the title of the list should be.

[J.T.]

Actually, HOF is not out of the question. Don't they base hall credentials for international players as well on how they play on the international scene? You can't limit the HOF for just NBA players. If you base his HOF possibility on his overall career credentials and include international play and such, I would think he would be a lock IMO.

Manu has as good a shot as any at cracking the HOF since it's the Basketball Hall of Fame, not just for the NBA. But I think his titles with the Spurs and winning the gold medal with the ARG national team will make him more than a lock. Maybe not first ballot but Manu still has some seasons to change that. I don't see why he wouldn't. The guy is clutch and a proven champion.