How does manu feel when he reads this???

[powerpower]

I hope angry...
http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/05/30/the-debriefing-manu-ginobili-needs-a-code-red/

The Debriefing: Manu Ginobili Needs a Code Red
Posted May 30th 2007 9:00AM by mjd
Filed under: Spurs, Western, NBA Playoffs, Jazz, Featured Stories

The Debriefing is a column that runs every weekday at 9:00 a.m. here on FanHouse. It goes deep into one issue and then bounces around to a plethora of smaller ones ... and does it all in a way that will make you feel like the prettiest girl at the cotillion. Bookmark this page, and visit daily.

I'd never condone a fan throwing something on to the court, but Monday night in San Antonio, as foreign objects rained down on the Spurs, I've got to confess that I wouldn't have been terribly upset if a rusty tire iron flew down from the upper deck directly into Manu Ginobili's face.

Let me be upfront about this: I'm a Spurs admirer. I strongly disagree with those who say the Spurs play boring basketball, and if I had to make a list of my favorite guys in the league to watch, Tim Duncan's probably going to be the first name on it. I'm even eager to admit that Manu Ginobili is a sensational talent.

But I've grown to hate him. You should, too. We've all got something to lose with Manu Ginobili.

I've long ago accepted flopping as a part of the NBA. Two people forced me to do so: Shaq and Vlade Divac. Shaq, because when he was in his prime, flopping was the only way to defend him. O'Neal's gargantuan proportions forced an offensive foul every time he moved towards the basket with a man behind him. But if you didn't exaggerate the effects of the contact, you weren't getting the call.

And let's not downplay Vlade's role in this, because before Ginobili, he was the NBA's flop king. I don't know if it was the beard, the accent, the chain-smoking, or just that Vlade just seemed like lovable guy, but I could never be mad at Vlade for anything. He could put pornographic pictures of my grandmother on the Jumbotron at Arco, and I'd say, "Oh, that Vlade, he's such a kidder."

Manu Ginobili, however, lacks that same charm.

Before Ginobili, the NBA sort of had its own style of flopping, different and less offensive than what goes on in soccer. It used to be limited to post play and stepping in and taking charges as someone drove the lane. But now, this balding son of a strumpet will flop anywhere on the court, at any time, at any distance away from the ball, and for any amount of pretend contact. At this point, Manu Ginobili makes Vlade Divac look like Chuck Wepner.

Let me also say that I know that Manu Ginobili isn't the only guilty party here. There are varying degrees of floppers all over the league, but Ginobili's made himself the standard-bearer. In Game 4 against Utah, his flop act was the lone reason that the sweet, harmless, completely non-aggressive Derek Fisher was ejected from the game.

Fisher picked up his first technical after he turned to run up the floor, and gently brushed up against Ginobili, who then flew backwards like he had been hit by a Buick. Fisher ended up with a technical for unintentionally grazing Ginobili with his torso. Minutes later, Fisher picked up his second T when Ginobili flopped after Fisher actually did foul him on a three-pointer. I believe Fisher said something to insult Ginobili's masculinity, the ref heard it, and Fisher was ejected.

What Ginobili's doing isn't normal, and it has to stop. I'm not merely saying that this is something I don't like, I'm not saying I want Manu Ginobili to lose. I'm saying that if those goes unchecked, I fear for the future of the NBA. I'm saying that I want Dawson and Downey to break into Ginobili's room and stuff a contaminated rag into his mouth before this goes any farther.

It's not good for anyone. It's bad for fans, as the NBA gets farther away from honest competitive efforts and closer to a contest of who can be the craftiest, sneakiest, most devious lowlife in the league. It's bad for the league because it pushes the NBA closer to soccer, which will lead to soccer-like TV ratings.

And it's bad for the players because the honest ones who attempt to walk the straight and narrow. Manu Ginobili couldn't be doing more damage to the NBA if he showed up at the rookie symposium with a smallpox blanket.

The contamination hasn't spread that far yet. It's gotten to fellow South American Anderson Varejao (and perhaps also to this gentleman, who shared a hotel with Ginobili and then felt compelled to take an altogether different kind of dive), but no one else in the league is in Ginobili's same flopping class.

And that's why I'm not worried about this sounding like a gross overstatement. This is a problem that needs to be nipped in its Argentinian bud. Protecting the NBA from serial floppers should be the league's top concern this off-season. Yes, even more important than microfiber basketballs and what type of pants Samuel Dalembert is wearing when he shows up to the arena.

I'd like to see a rule that makes a blatant flop a technical foul. I realize that it would be impossible to enforce this correctly, and that a ton of issues come along with it, but I don't care. If flopping backfires on a few of the repeat offenders and they get T'd up, the practice will slow down dramatically. This isn't something that the NBA will have to enforce vigorously for an entire year. Just show that it can happen, and the threat will be enough to keep floppers at bay.

That's not enough, though. I'd like to see some kind of internal handling of the matter ... which brings us back to the Code Red. Whatever it was that Derek Fisher said to Ginobili to get himself ejected was somewhat justified. The game had been decided by that point, he didn't cost his team anything ... the only problem is that he didn't go far enough. Maybe Fisher shouldn't have said a word, he just should have looked at Ginobili laying on the floor, and kicked him in the mouth. The series is 3-1 anyway, and the Jazz are probably going to lose tonight. He might as well have done the rest of us a favor.

Fisher's too sweet of a guy for that, though. I'm pretty confident that if I had ten minutes alone in a room with Ron Artest, I could convince him that messing up Manu Ginobili is a good thing for all of us, and it would finally get the public back on his side. I'm pretty sure that "Ron, Manu told me that everyone from Queensbridge is a pansy," would do the trick. And Ron Artest could solve all of our problems.






I HOPE MANU SHOWS THE WORLD HOW HE FEELS BY DROPPING 40 pts on the jazz tonight...........PLEASE LET IT HAPPEN!!!

[Solid D]

Fabrication. Pure garbage.

[Obstructed_View]

Let me be upfront about this: I'm a Spurs admirer. I strongly disagree with those who say the Spurs play boring basketball, and if I had to make a list of my favorite guys in the league to watch, Tim Duncan's probably going to be the first name on it. I'm even eager to admit that Manu Ginobili is a sensational talent.
I call total and complete BS at this point. I don't even need to read further that he calls Manu a flopper and defends Fisher in the same article to know this dude has serious credibility issues.

[Findog]

Aw, poor wittle baby Spuhs and the constant cwiticism. I'm sure Manu will curl up in the fetal position on his bed and cry himself to sleep with his championship rings. Nobody sheds any tears for the dynasties. Some of you in the Spurs fanbase need to get over yourselves.

[Supergirl]

I call BS. Manu flops, but he ain't got nothing on Fisher himself, not to mention Raja Bell, Steve Nash, Dwayne Wade, and probably other guys who flop. Manu isn't even the same LEAGUE of flopping as those guys.

All this boils down to this: A "flop" is simply an exaggerated way of calling attention to the fact that there was some contact. If the refs buy it, and call the foul, then you've done your job. Some nights, the refs buy it, and some nights the don't. Manu doesn't change his style much, and there are plenty of nights where he gets hacked, flops, but still gets no calls.

[Findog]

I call BS. Manu flops, but he ain't got nothing on Fisher himself, not to mention Raja Bell, Steve Nash, Dwayne Wade, and probably other guys who flop. Manu isn't even the same LEAGUE of flopping as those guys.


Give me a break. This is blind homer talk. Manu is the Gretzky, Jordan and Jerry Rice of flopping. Nobody else comes close. Dude is an awesome baller, I'll give him his due there, but the flopping is the one part of his game I can't stand.

[dbreiden83080]

Considering every third sentence was a skewing the facts i doubt Manu would give it a second thought.

[powerpower]

I agree with all of you but

MANUUUUUUU PLEASE DOMINATE TONIGHT

[steppy]

I'm sure any distress this article may bring to Manu is quickly alleviated by him viewing his bank balance.

[powerpower]

I'm sure any distress this article may bring to Manu is quickly alleviated by him viewing his bank balance.


hahahhaha

[stretch]

I call BS. Manu flops, but he ain't got nothing on Fisher himself, not to mention Raja Bell, Steve Nash, Dwayne Wade, and probably other guys who flop. Manu isn't even the same LEAGUE of flopping as those guys.

STFU

[powerpower]

Everyone is spitting at manu besides SA media ...
why can't POP defend Manu..how he defended bowen....? I mean even jazz players say he FLOPS williams said straight up........??

IF i am manu i am beating the shit out of jazz and williams tonight!

[MrChug]

Aw, poor wittle baby Spuhs and the constant cwiticism. I'm sure Manu will curl up in the fetal position on his bed and cry himself to sleep with his championship rings. Nobody sheds any tears for the dynasties. Some of you in the Spurs fanbase need to get over yourselves.

No fin..he'll grab his nutsak and perform unlike the sensitive little Mavs. And yes...we're still laughing at you guys, get used to tt. :elephant

[Obstructed_View]

Give me a break. This is blind homer talk. Manu is the Gretzky, Jordan and Jerry Rice of flopping. Nobody else comes close. Dude is an awesome baller, I'll give him his due there, but the flopping is the one part of his game I can't stand.
Amazing how every time you put up a post you just prove how little you watch your own team. Manu isn't the biggest flopper in the state of Texas.

[FromWayDowntown]

The funny thing about Fisher's technicals in Game 4 is that each was immediately preceded by a Fisher flop. Fisher got his first as the players ran up the floor after a Manu layup. I still think that Fisher wasn't exactly trying to avoid Ginobili and I think that was because Fisher was pissed that he couldn't draw an offensive foul before the layup; he tried to flop on a screen and his flop ended up breaking down the defense and giving Manu an easy path to the basket.

Fisher's 2nd T came on that play just inside the three point line in front of the Jazz bench. Manu started his drive and probably pushed off; but Fisher flopped around trying again to draw a call. When he didn't get that call, he obviously put a hard foul on Manu while Manu was shooting. Did Manu embellish the contact? Probably. But was there any doubt that Fisher fouled Manu? Absolutely not. Fisher intended to foul Manu and then lorded over him after the whistle as if he'd sent some sort of message from one flopper to another. Whatever, the fact remains that Fisher did more flopping on those plays than Manu did.

[monosylab1k]

saying Manu isn't a flopper is like saying Dirk isn't a choker.

[Obstructed_View]

Everyone is spitting at manu besides SA media ...
why can't POP defend Manu..how he defended bowen....? I mean even jazz players say he FLOPS williams said straight up........??

IF i am manu i am beating the shit out of jazz and williams tonight!
The league went after Bowen. It's just a bunch of idiots and losers going after Manu.

[GrandeDavid]

Gay article.

[Marcus Bryant]

I doubt Ginobili reads such things.

Anyways, so what if Manu is regarded by some as a "flopper"? His team is one win away from the NBA Finals. Leave it to the fans of ringless teams to continue to rationalize why their favorite team cannot break through.

:baby

[ArgSpursFan]

stupid thread.I bet Manu already knows about the article and may be saying:talk all you want,I´m the one winning championships and making tons of money.

[smrattler]

Who is this guy and why did I just waste time reading more than 30 seconds of what he wrote?

[Alamode]

I'm sure any distress this article may bring to Manu is quickly alleviated by him viewing his bank balance.

while polishing his championship rings. WTF would Manu care what is said about him? He seems to enjoy it all, the good and the bad. This is one smart man, the naive "I don't understand what I did to make them mad" act is inspired. He knows exactly what he is doing. He 'mind games' these rooks like no one else.

They may love you or hate you but they'll never forget you. :toast

[MaNuMaNiAc]

saying Manu isn't a flopper is like saying Dirk isn't a choker.nobody is saying Manu isn't a flopper son, we're saying he's not only not the only one, but he's not even the worst one. He's just the one on the team everyone fears and therefore hates. This and only this is the reason everyone is crying their eyes out about Manu.

[Supergirl]

Why the Spurs don't comment on criticism:
It's not their style. Let people talk and say whatever they want to say. The Spurs just show up, and play. And win. Nothing else matters.

[Findog]

No fin..he'll grab his nutsak and perform unlike the sensitive little Mavs. And yes...we're still laughing at you guys, get used to tt. :elephant

I'm so hurt. Couldn't you at least throw in a "three rings" or "chokers" taunt for old time's sake? Two ping pong balls and all of the sudden the Spurs and their fans invented basketball, not James Naismith.

[Findog]

Amazing how every time you put up a post you just prove how little you watch your own team. Manu isn't the biggest flopper in the state of Texas.

Homer.

Flopping is way too prevalent now and lots of guys do it, including Dirk, but Manu was and is the pioneer for elevating it to an art form.

* ah, just realized you're talking about Harris. I hate flopping, even when my team does it. But it's become an integral part of the game, trying to sell calls to refs. And Ginobili is the guy who has helped bring that about more than any other.

[SpursIndonesia]

Xenophobia, can't realy explain it any other way.

[Jimcs50]

And he ruined the series too

[Sec24Row7]

The funny thing is... Manu is flopping SOOOOOOOOO much less than he did in 2005... lol...


He isn't even in the top 10 in the league in offensive fouls drawn...

[spurastic]

There are two types of flops. The Raja Bell style such as when he throw himself into another player and then falls backward as if hit by a dump truck. This is the lowest form. Then there is the Manu style which is "I'm going to make sure that the Ref notices that I was fouled" flop. Personally I think that Manu goes at the rim alot, steals or goes for rebounding the ball and other things that causes the other players to foul him alot. I don't think he is near the flopper to which some people credit him.

[Marcus Bryant]

So Manu's a "flopper". Let your mommy know about it.

[redskinfan]

Top 5 floppers in game today

1.Raja Bell -damm he is good at it! nobody close
2.Devin Harris- in a year or two will be in Bell's league
3.Manu- doesn't flop as much as he used to but is finding his artform just in time.
4.Derrick Fisher- old school flopper used to be #1
5.Tony Romo- shit wrong sport. sorry....

[Martin R]

I am sending this to Manu right now.

[Alamode]

How many Manu flopping threads can one forum hold?

[SpursFanFirst]

I'm saying that I want Dawson and Downey to break into Ginobili's room and stuff a contaminated rag into his mouth before this goes any farther.


I'm pretty confident that if I had ten minutes alone in a room with Ron Artest, I could convince him that messing up Manu Ginobili is a good thing for all of us.

:wtf

[DudleyDawson]

I would absolutely hate Manu if he played for any other team. Honestly.

[Findog]

I would absolutely hate Manu if he played for any other team. Honestly.

Congratulations. You're an intellectually honest Spurs fan. That's a rare accomplishment. I'd hate Stackhouse if he weren't on the Mavs. Had no problem with Raja Bell when he was here, but can't stand him on the Suns.

[FromWayDowntown]

I would absolutely hate Manu if he played for any other team. Honestly.

He's truly become one of the league's great villians. Fans in other cities boo him now just when he gets off the bench. He's booed every second he's on the floor in Denver and Phoenix. Salt Lake City fans were on him from the moment he got off the bench in Game 4 of this series, too. He was absolutely reviled the day I saw the Spurs play in Seattle, too.

Even Tim Duncan isn't booed and treated like that.

[Findog]

Even Tim Duncan isn't booed and treated like that.

Maybe because Duncan personifies the "right way" in a lot of respects on and off the court. Ginobili is as bad as the Italian World Cup team.

[greywheel]

But now, this balding son of a strumpet will flop anywhere on the court, at any time, at any distance away from the ball, and for any amount of pretend contact.
This pissed me off more than calling Manu a flopper. No reason to talk like that about his mom.

[steppy]

I think a lot of us would dislike some of our players if they were on another team. Thankfully, we don't have to worry about that.

Besides, blame the league. They can police flopping better if they want to. As long as it works, why do anything different?

[newbiefan]

And he ruined the series too

and Robert Horry ruined the Phoenix series... give me a break..

He just gets under people's skin...ref's can see that he is getting to other players.. so when he "flops".. ref's think it's the real thing because the other players have already shown some frustration and words

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Maybe because Duncan personifies the "right way" in a lot of respects on and off the court. Ginobili is as bad as the Italian World Cup team.
:dramaquee give me a fucking break! fans love to demonize the players that give them the most grief. Manu flops, but not nearly as much as it is made out to be. The reason the "Manu flops" bullshit gets thrown around so much is because teams can't find any other way to justify him owning their asses. Its better to say he flops and try to discredit his performances, than to admit you have no answer for the guy. The dude flops more than most, but I wouldn't classify him as the worst flopper out there. He's just the most notorious. Its the same basic principle behind the hatred of the Spurs. Hate comes with success. If Manu was flopping his ass off, but was playing for the Hawks for example, noone would say shit about him.

and the reason fans don't demonize Duncan is because you can't find the angle to do it. The man leaves you no choice but to respect him. The most opposing fans have on Tim is that he whines a lot :rolleyes

[Mixability]

I'd like for the league to look into the blatant flop = tech issue.

[TMTTRIO]

The sad thing is that this wasn't really an issue until George Karl had to rag on him during the '05 series about his flopping. Since then that's the only thing the media and people will talk about.

[Mixability]

I think the issue with the flopping isn't the fact that Manu over does it. It's that every team tries to one up the other. If Fisher wouldn't have flopped before Manu's jumper, then he wouldn't have run into Manu for not getting the call. Manu then, knowing he was in Fisher's head, flopped on the next jumper and got Fish ejected. Hilarious, but not good for basketball.

[SAGambler]

He's truly become one of the league's great villians. Fans in other cities boo him now just when he gets off the bench. He's booed every second he's on the floor in Denver and Phoenix. Salt Lake City fans were on him from the moment he got off the bench in Game 4 of this series, too. He was absolutely reviled the day I saw the Spurs play in Seattle, too.

Even Tim Duncan isn't booed and treated like that.

The other fans fear him more then Duncan. While Duncan kinda goes along and gets his, fans in other cities have witnessed for themselves how Manu can take over a game and completely turn it around. They may boo him, but there isn't a damned one of them that doesn't wish he was playing for their team.

Just as Duncan in a rare player that is fundamentally sound on both ends of the court, Manu is also a rare player that sometimes flies by the seat of his pants and makes it up as he goes along.

Call him a flopper, but like someone said he doesn't "flop" nearly as much as he used to, and he probably feels he has to exagerate everything just to get a call. How many times have we seen replays where he slapped across the arms and face and still no whistle?

But what I really like about Manu is his ability to take a hard hit, get up off the floor, and shove it up the other teams ass. It's like he loves hard contact. That's what gets him going.

[FromWayDowntown]

Maybe because Duncan personifies the "right way" in a lot of respects on and off the court. Ginobili is as bad as the Italian World Cup team.

So wait. Are you against players ever embellishing contact? Are you claiming that those who frequently embellish contact aren't doing things the "right way?"

You might think real hard about that one, since there is nobody in the NBA who embellishes contact more than its reigning MVP.

[FromWayDowntown]

The other fans fear him more then Duncan. While Duncan kinda goes along and gets his, fans in other cities have witnessed for themselves how Manu can take over a game and completely turn it around. They may boo him, but there isn't a damned one of them that doesn't wish he was playing for their team.

Just as Duncan in a rare player that is fundamentally sound on both ends of the court, Manu is also a rare player that sometimes flies by the seat of his pants and makes it up as he goes along.

Call him a flopper, but like someone said he doesn't "flop" nearly as much as he used to, and he probably feels he has to exagerate everything just to get a call. How many times have we seen replays where he slapped across the arms and face and still no whistle?

But what I really like about Manu is his ability to take a hard hit, get up off the floor, and shove it up the other teams ass. It's like he loves hard contact. That's what gets him going.

I think another thing that makes him a villian is the fact that he's pretty much unflappable.

Put a hard foul on Ginobili and he just bounces up and takes his free throws. A bad call on Manu? He'll complain to the officials, but never enough to get a technical, and never enough to take him out of his game. He's constantly adjusting to what's going on in the game around him and he finds a variety of ways to just win games. He's an extraordinarily intelligent basketball mind.

I agree that Manu has reached a point where a lot of the contact he sustains goes uncalled, and that's probably a consequence of his rampant flopping a while back. He's certainly, to my eyes at least, curtailed the flopping and moved more towards embellishing actual contact to try to bring attention to all of the contact he sustains on drives.

But to say that he's not getting hit with some frequency -- or that he's not getting hit hard when he gets hit -- is simply ignorant.

[Sasha]

STFU

You're on the wrong board to be telling people to STFU, aren't you?

[michaelwcho]

Xenophobia, can't realy explain it any other way.
there is also the matter of Ginobili being one of the most successful players in the league, the closer for the best team of the decade.

If a tree flops in the woods and no one sees it, is it a flop!?

[Findog]

The reason the "Manu flops" bullshit gets thrown around so much is because teams can't find any other way to justify him owning their asses.

Manu doesn't "own" the Mavericks. Baron Davis? Yes. Bennett Salvatore? Yes. Manu? Not so much.


Its better to say he flops and try to discredit his performances, than to admit you have no answer for the guy.

I already gave him props for his hops in the other thread. Dude can ball. But that doesn't make him immune from criticism. And like I said, Dallas has more than enough answers for Ginobili.


If Manu was flopping his ass off, but was playing for the Hawks for example, noone would say shit about him.

Duh. But he doesn't. He instead plays for the team about to win the title, and he's a sissy. Being in the limelight helps illuminate flaws.


and the reason fans don't demonize Duncan is because you can't find the angle to do it. The man leaves you no choice but to respect him. The most opposing fans have on Tim is that he whines a lot

And your point is what exactly? I'm not clamoring to hate on Duncan.

[CosmicCowboy]

How does Manu FEEL when he reads something like that?

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

He could probably care less what some no-name internet wannabe sports writer thinks about his game...

The fact that he's being paid 9 million a year to play his game makes the criticism pretty easy to laugh off...

[Sasha]

He's truly become one of the league's great villians. Fans in other cities boo him now just when he gets off the bench. He's booed every second he's on the floor in Denver and Phoenix. Salt Lake City fans were on him from the moment he got off the bench in Game 4 of this series, too. He was absolutely reviled the day I saw the Spurs play in Seattle, too.

Even Tim Duncan isn't booed and treated like that.


Manu says that the boos fire him up - in Argentina it's a compliment. So maybe people need to start applauding and cheering him. That could depress him so badly he couldn't even play... :lol

[Findog]

So wait. Are you against players ever embellishing contact? Are you claiming that those who frequently embellish contact aren't doing things the "right way?"

You might think real hard about that one, since there is nobody in the NBA who embellishes contact more than its reigning MVP.

I think flopping has gotten way out of hand, and that there was once a time where players exagerated contact when they were legitimately fouled. Ginobili isn't solely responsible, but he flops not just on charges underneath the cylinder or on drives to the basket but anywhere on the court. I would much rather have the refs start calling techs anytime a player flops, whether it's legitimate or not. We'll start seeing guys suddenly learn to stay upright.

[smeagol]

And he ruined the series too
And like all Argentines, he does not pay his debts.

Ohh, and I remember a couple of years ago, he did not tip Manny when Manny parked his car.

Flopper and a bad tipper.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Duh. But he doesn't. He instead plays for the team about to win the title, and he's a sissy. Being in the limelight helps illuminate flaws.
obviously you have no clue as to what being a sissy is. Get a dictionary fool


And your point is what exactly? I'm not clamoring to hate on Duncan.

my point you would be bitching about Duncan as well if it wasn't for the fact the man doesn't give you the oppotunity

[Findog]

obviously you have no clue as to what being a sissy is. Get a dictionary fool

Manu is a sissy. He's a guy who doesn't want to rely solely on his considerable athletic gifts, but feels the need to introduce the craft of acting to the hardwood.


my point you would be bitching about Duncan as well if it wasn't for the fact the man doesn't give you the oppotunity

I still fail to see what exactly your point is here. Duncan isn't a douchebag, so naturally I have no need, nor have any desire, to criticize him for being a douchebag. If Duncan WERE a douchebag, I'd be ragging on him, whether he played for the Spurs or the Bobcats.

Anything else?

[judaspriestess]

This guy is an irresponsible hack.

Advocating violence against a player. There could be some sicko out there who will take his words to heart and hurt, mame or even kill a player.

Anyone remember what happened to Monica Seles? The attack on her cost her career and the tennis world a great player. Ginobili's situation is similar. He is hated for what he does on the court. Like Seles, who was an incredible tennis player, people did not like her because she made loud funny noises when she hit the ball and she whooped ass on everyone. So some fucking deranged fan of Steffi Graff stabbed her trying to kill her because she beat his poor lil Steffi.

Shame on this asshole!

[DfendtheStar]

I think flopping has become an issue with the NBA especially away from the ball. I thnk it needs to be adressed next year. But you cannot say that Manu is the biggest flopper in the league. You cant even say he's the biggest flopper in this series. Fisher needs to go back to Hollywood cause not only is he flopping but his acting has gotten so bad not even the offiicials are buying it anymore

[callo1]

The author of the article obviously has no clue. He even states that game 3 was in San Antonio.

As far as flopping goes, Fisher has long been one of the biggest floppers in the league. It is kinda funny to hear Utah fans whining about Manu after we had to endure countless years of Flopton to Malone. This two guys were masters of the Flop. I can still envision Malone getting (almost hit) by Avery and throwing himself across the floor 5-10 feet.

As far as the king of flopping goes, I would have to give that to little Stevie of the Phoenix Dungs.

Sure Manu flops some, but name me one player in the league that doesn't...one..and Allas fans PLEASE don't come here and talk about floppers when you have your 7ft flop machine Irk NoRingSki who constantly does the same thing. The only reason Irk isn't flopping right now is due to the Mavs 1st round EXIT to the Warriors. Hows that vacation Mavs fan? :clap

when you keep dominating the league like the Spurs have in the last 9 years you will have plenty of haters. What these haters really are is admirers, but they won't say that...envy is a powerful thing. We Spur fans know that every time our team knocks another team off, its simply another teams fanbase that envys the Spurs.

Hell, I like it :lol

[cherylsteele]

I'd be ragging on him, whether he played for the Spurs or the Bobcats.
But not the Mavs. Others brought up Devin Harris being worse and you seem to dismiss it because he is a Mavs' player.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think flopping has gotten way out of hand, and that there was once a time where players exagerated contact when they were legitimately fouled. Ginobili isn't solely responsible, but he flops not just on charges underneath the cylinder or on drives to the basket but anywhere on the court. I would much rather have the refs start calling techs anytime a player flops, whether it's legitimate or not. We'll start seeing guys suddenly learn to stay upright.

Well, what's a flop? If Manu drives to the basket and is hit, but embellishes the contact, is that a flop? If a player sets up in the lane and is in position when an offensive player makes contact, does he flop if he hits the floor? If a player takes a jump shot and a defensive player makes contact with him in the shot, is it a flop if the shooter hits the floor?

I think that if you take the embellishment completely out, you actually encourage more and more thug-like behavior from those who might be able to get away with it. Why not strike a driver when he's exposed and hope that an official doesn't see it -- for crissakes, if the driver embellishes your hit, you might not only avoid a foul but also cause a technical on the driver, who did nothing other than insure that the contact could be seen. Why isn't a no-call in that situation sufficient?

It's not as if embellishing contact is some new facet of the NBA game.

[Martin R]

If Manu was flopping his ass off, but was playing for the Hawks for example, noone would say shit about him.


or if Manu was Anderson Varejao, NOBODY would spend a single second on cursing him. You'd just LAUGH @ the flopping act.

Problem is that Manu is a REAL threat for every team and they can't find a better way to intimidate him than saying nasty stupid things about his flopping LEGAL acts.

give me 2 breaks. Tired of reading about these whiners.

[smeagol]

Manu is a sissy. He's a guy who doesn't want to rely solely on his considerable athletic gifts, but feels the need to introduce the craft of acting to the hardwood.



I still fail to see what exactly your point is here. Duncan isn't a douchebag, so naturally I have no need, nor have any desire, to criticize him for being a douchebag. If Duncan WERE a douchebag, I'd be ragging on him, whether he played for the Spurs or the Bobcats.

Anything else?
For somebody who repeatedly said is not a troll you are doing a wonderfull job fooling us.

[wildbill2u]

But now, this balding son of a strumpet will flop anywhere on the court, at any time"

It ain't nice to call Manu's mother a prostitute. That's going beyond the pale of acceptable criticism. Who is this guy and how can Manu find him later?

[twentyone]

Let me be upfront about this: I'm a Spurs admirer. I strongly disagree with those who say the Spurs play boring basketball, and if I had to make a list of my favorite guys in the league to watch, Tim Duncan's probably going to be the first name on it. I'm even eager to admit that Manu Ginobili is a sensational talent.




Lies? Someone send this chick a box of tissues.

[Spider TX]

Manu is far and away the biggest flopper to ever play the game. It's ridiculous how much he does it, but he does it well enough to get the calls so credit him that much. All of you blind ass Spurs fans who say other are bigger floppers are just making yourselves look like idiots. Stop being such a damn homer for even 2 seconds and realize you have the biggest cumbag in the league on your team flopping every damn chance he gets. It's reasons like that that I am very thankful that the Suns went after Nash a few years back and not Ginobili, because the guy is just annoying, and I could never root for him, no matter how good he is.

[Findog]

But not the Mavs. Others brought up Devin Harris being worse and you seem to dismiss it because he is a Mavs' player.

Where did I dismiss it? I hate flopping and Devin is a prime offender. I want flopping out of the game. I'd support refs calling automatic techs on flops, whether it's acting or a guy legitimately falls. The problem is that it works too often in terms of inducing a call from the refs. Take that tactic away, and suddenly guys start walking upright again.

[Findog]

I think that if you take the embellishment completely out, you actually encourage more and more thug-like behavior from those who might be able to get away with it.

I personally doubt that. I don't think refs will stop calling flagrants where they occur, and I think thuggish behavior has a way of being internally policed by the players themselves.

[Findog]

For somebody who repeatedly said is not a troll you are doing a wonderfull job fooling us.

I'm sorry...you said something that is of concern to me? I enjoy talking hoops with Mardigan, FromWayDowntown, Obstructed View and some of the other great Spurs fans. Maybe you can lobby Kori to change the posting policy to Spurs fans only. Until then, please feel free to chime back from the shallow end of the pool with a "three rings" or "chokers" taunt, I haven't heard those before.

[td4mvp21]

Blah Blah Blah I'm a jealous Suns fan....blah blah I wish my team didn't have so many bitching pussies on it waaaaah

Yeah, we know Ginobili is one of the biggest floppers in the league. Almost every Spurs fan on this board will admit to it. It's annoying when other fans of different teams come in here acting arrogant and telling us something we already know. We've admitted it several times, and frankly, we don't give a shit. He helps us win games. Each team has a flopper that helps them out. Get over it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Give me a break. This is blind homer talk. Manu is the Gretzky, Jordan and Jerry Rice of flopping. Nobody else comes close. Dude is an awesome baller, I'll give him his due there, but the flopping is the one part of his game I can't stand.

What do you expect? He learned from the best when he played against Devin Harris last year in the playoffs.

[FromWayDowntown]

I personally doubt that. I don't think refs will stop calling flagrants where they occur, and I think thuggish behavior has a way of being internally policed by the players themselves.

I'm not talking about flagrants -- those are obvious plays that get called. I'm talking about a situation where a guy drives to the basket and in the middle of his flight, takes contact somewhere that an official might not normally see it -- contact that is sufficient to affect the shot. That contact is a foul, but officials know to call it mostly because they see how the shooter reacts to it. Smart players have come to embellish that contact to aid the official in seeing what happened; officials have figured out that sometimes the embellishment is a flop intended to sell contact that never happened. I think they've probably reached a happy medium on those plays. I'm not sure why anyone would honestly want to take away that medium.

I'm all for getting tough on flopping that occurs out on the floor -- guys who get screened and just fall down; or guys who feel the slightest contact on a shooter's lean-in and fall backwards. I think that stuff is bad for the game. But I think that the way to do that isn't necessarily through technical fouls -- though I could certainly see that being treated as unsportsmanlike conduct that warrants a T.

I don't think, however, that it would do much good to hand out technicals to players who do little more than embellish calls.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I personally doubt that. I don't think refs will stop calling flagrants where they occur, and I think thuggish behavior has a way of being internally policed by the players themselves.

So when a guy is driving to the bucket the only time a foul should be called is if it's a flagrant? This isn't Rucker Park.

[Findog]

I'm not talking about flagrants -- those are obvious plays that get called. I'm talking about a situation where a guy drives to the basket and in the middle of his flight, takes contact somewhere that an official might not normally see it -- contact that is sufficient to affect the shot. That contact is a foul, but officials know to call it mostly because they see how the shooter reacts to it. Smart players have come to embellish that contact to aid the official in seeing what happened; officials have figured out that sometimes the embellishment is a flop intended to sell contact that never happened. I think they've probably reached a happy medium on those plays. I'm not sure why anyone would honestly want to take away that medium.

I'm all for getting tough on flopping that occurs out on the floor -- guys who get screened and just fall down; or guys who feel the slightest contact on a shooter's lean-in and fall backwards. I think that stuff is bad for the game. But I think that the way to do that isn't necessarily through technical fouls -- though I could certainly see that being treated as unsportsmanlike conduct that warrants a T.

I don't think, however, that it would do much good to hand out technicals to players who do little more than embellish calls.


Perhaps instead of an automatic tech policy then give refs the discretion to tee guys up for flopping if they think it's blatant selling? Much like how they do in soccer?

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

Aw, poor wittle baby Spuhs and the constant cwiticism. I'm sure Manu will curl up in the fetal position on his bed and cry himself to sleep with his championship rings. Nobody sheds any tears for the dynasties. Some of you in the Spurs fanbase need to get over yourselves.

You type like Elmer Fudd? Nice. BWWAAHAAHAAHAHAAA!!!

[BeerIsGood!]

Question:

Why do people get all pissed about flopping in basketball but nothing is said of the punter or place kicker in football that goes flying to draw a roughing penalty if the opposing player even comes within 6 inches of them? Flopping is part of the game, it's an art form.

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

Manu not only owns the empty heads of the fans and players of opposing teams, he controls the minds of NBA refs.

Scoreboard: Ginobili

[Oh, Gee!!]

I hate flopping too, and I hope it stops being tolerated after this season

[SpurOutofTownFan]

The funny thing about Fisher's technicals in Game 4 is that each was immediately preceded by a Fisher flop. Fisher got his first as the players ran up the floor after a Manu layup. I still think that Fisher wasn't exactly trying to avoid Ginobili and I think that was because Fisher was pissed that he couldn't draw an offensive foul before the layup; he tried to flop on a screen and his flop ended up breaking down the defense and giving Manu an easy path to the basket.

Fisher's 2nd T came on that play just inside the three point line in front of the Jazz bench. Manu started his drive and probably pushed off; but Fisher flopped around trying again to draw a call. When he didn't get that call, he obviously put a hard foul on Manu while Manu was shooting. Did Manu embellish the contact? Probably. But was there any doubt that Fisher fouled Manu? Absolutely not. Fisher intended to foul Manu and then lorded over him after the whistle as if he'd sent some sort of message from one flopper to another. Whatever, the fact remains that Fisher did more flopping on those plays than Manu did.

I agree with this post 100%. Look at the replays.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I encourage you to read the comments from several people at the bottom of the page thru the link itself.

[Obstructed_View]

If what Manu does is flopping, then I love it. Whatever it is that Devin Harris does I don't like. Horry does the same thing Harris does but he doesn't take himself seriously while he does it, so it's fun to watch when he gets away with it. My old sig graphic was never more perfect than it is this year. I guess I'll have to put it back up.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/GeneralPurpose/Spurstalk/TeamSmall.jpg

[whottt]

I'd never condone a fan throwing something on to the court, but Monday night in San Antonio, as foreign objects rained down on the Spurs, I've got to confess that I wouldn't have been terribly upset if a rusty tire iron flew down from the upper deck directly into Manu Ginobili's face.

Let me be upfront about this: I'm a Spurs admirer.


God it'd be cool to shoot this dude in the face with a sawed off shotgun...

I think I'd bust a nut after doing it.

[dbestpro]

Aw, poor wittle baby Spuhs and the constant cwiticism. I'm sure Manu will curl up in the fetal position on his bed and cry himself to sleep with his championship rings. Nobody sheds any tears for the dynasties. Some of you in the Spurs fanbase need to get over yourselves.
Kiss my ring.

[hater]

he must be an ex-laker fan or a Heat fan.

Yes Manu flops and he performed a couple of classic Manu flops in last game. But the king of the flop is Dwade.

BTW flopping has been in the league a loong time before Manu.

this guy just didn't have anything better to write about.

[Martin R]

Question:

Why do people get all pissed about flopping in basketball but nothing is said of the punter or place kicker in football that goes flying to draw a roughing penalty if the opposing player even comes within 6 inches of them?.


maybe because this is a basketball oriented forum ? :huh

[FromWayDowntown]

Perhaps instead of an automatic tech policy then give refs the discretion to tee guys up for flopping if they think it's blatant selling? Much like how they do in soccer?

That possibility already exists, though I suppose that the league could more specifically define unsportsmanlike conduct to include flopping. In any event, I don't disagree with the notion, but I think it will end up being much like the complaining rule -- it was harsh at first, worked for a little while, and then everyone seemed to just forget about it and go back to the old way of doing things.

[whottt]

Flopping is a skill...it never bothers me when players do it really. It's never bothered me that Fisher does it...I'd take him on my team. It didn't bother me when Vlade did it...it's just not that big of a deal..and it's been done in the NBA for as long as I can remember...it's been done extensively in the NBA for 10-15 years now. Manu is not the biggest flopper to ever play in the NBA...he's not as big of a flopper as Derek Fisher...


And if there is one team that deserves to be flopped out of the playoffs? It's the Jazz...

Stockton - 4th greatest Flopper in NBA history
Malone - 3rd greatest Flopper in NBA history
Fisher - 2nd greatest Flopper in NBA history.

Vlade is #1 of course....

Hopefully Manu will be #1 by the time he retires. I rate him about 6th or 7th right now.

[dmac]

"I'd never condone a fan throwing something on to the court, but Monday night in San Antonio, "


Get your facts straight, dude.

[hater]

flopping is NOT a skill. I hate flopping. But Manu is barely in the top 10 floppers in the NBA. and the leader is Dwade, and I would love to have Dwade on my team.

[whottt]

"I'd never condone a fan throwing something on to the court, but Monday night in San Antonio, "


Get your facts straight, dude.


Not only that...but he wouldn't condone a fan throwing something on the court...but if someone attempted to kill Manu with something throw on the court, he wouldn't be upset...


This guy shouldn't be a paid journalist...that's an incredily irresponsible comment he made...

[Obstructed_View]

flopping is NOT a skill. I hate flopping. But Manu is barely in the top 10 floppers in the NBA. and the leader is Dwade, and I would love to have Dwade on my team.
Funny how there aren't many guys who are ever mentioned as floppers that aren't also actually good basketball players. Fisher isn't a first tier player, but he and Horry are great role players with championship skins.

[whottt]

flopping is NOT a skill. I hate flopping. But Manu is barely in the top 10 floppers in the NBA. and the leader is Dwade, and I would love to have Dwade on my team.


BS...how in the hell can you say Manu isn't in the top 10? They are actually considering rule changes becauee he does it so well...

[whottt]

DRob was a good flopper too...the Jazz taught him well.

[hater]

BS...how in the hell can you say Manu isn't in the top 10? They are actually considering rule changes becauee he does it so well...

I said he is in the top 10. but there are 9 other guys just as good. And Dwade is #1.

He was probably #1 in 2005 but Manu hardly flopped this year.

last game he did pull out some classic Manu flops. but he had to cause Duncan and Parker were playing like shit.

[Obstructed_View]

BS...how in the hell can you say Manu isn't in the top 10? They are actually considering rule changes becauee he does it so well...
Really? I've heard analysts and media people talk about it, I've never heard anyone in the NBA talking about it, and JVG is more the former than the latter. Angry fans talk a lot of shit after someone owns them. If Bowen were doing it they'd be talking about how the NBA needs to whistle him for a T every time he leaves his feet. The people that think Manu is still a terrible flopper haven't been watching. Seriously, Parker goes to the ground from no contact way more than Manu does.

[whottt]

I think Devin Harris is going to be a pretty good flopper...he's shown a lot of potential so far...

[hater]

I encourage you to read the comments from several people at the bottom of the page thru the link itself.

he got owned in the comments. but howcome my comments don't show up??

dammit!

[Obstructed_View]

I think Devin Harris is going to be a pretty good flopper...he's shown a lot of potential so far...
I'm glad he's on the Mavericks. He's a pathetic flopper who never commits fouls and makes comical faces when he's whistled. He's everything Mavs fans accuse Manu and Timmy of being. Funny that the Mavericks were a better team before he started that shit.

[Alamode]

Manu is far and away the biggest flopper to ever play the game. It's ridiculous how much he does it, but he does it well enough to get the calls so credit him that much. All of you blind ass Spurs fans who say other are bigger floppers are just making yourselves look like idiots. Stop being such a damn homer for even 2 seconds and realize you have the biggest cumbag in the league on your team flopping every damn chance he gets. It's reasons like that that I am very thankful that the Suns went after Nash a few years back and not Ginobili, because the guy is just annoying, and I could never root for him, no matter how good he is.

:blah Bull, you'd take Manu on your team in a hot flopping second. Maybe then you would actually get to the finals. So, because you abhor flopping, if DWade were available to the Suns you would just say no?

If you say yes then you're a hypocrite since you hate Manu for flopping and DWade is ten times worse.

[BeerIsGood!]

maybe because this is a basketball oriented forum ? :huh

I wasn't taking about this forum, I was talking about the media in general. No one makes a big deal of the most obvious flopping in Football, where such an act can cost a team a possession in a sport where you only get a few a game. Much higher impact on the game when it occurs yet no one complains about it. Nice try though.



I'm with Whottt on this one. Flopping is definitely a skill, an art form that should be embraced. Manu isn't the player who flops the most, but he is certainly at the top of the list of the best flopper in the game. The way the guy can embellish actual contact with such fluid motion and really sell it is awe inspiring. Fisher is also really good at it, but he's not nearly as convincing in his movement as Manu. Manu makes me double take sometimes when he does it - he's that good. Manu is so good that people are whining when he doesn't flop just because they can't tell the difference. That's talent.

[smeagol]

Until then, please feel free to chime back from the shallow end of the pool with a "three rings" or "chokers" taunt, I haven't heard those before

With coomments like the one below you should come and play with me in the shallow end of the pool because FWD, OV and other are way out of your league.


Aw, poor wittle baby Spuhs and the constant cwiticism. I'm sure Manu will curl up in the fetal position on his bed and cry himself to sleep with his championship rings. Nobody sheds any tears for the dynasties. Some of you in the Spurs fanbase need to get over yourselves.

Ohh and the fact you think Manu is a sissy make you look really intelligent.

[Findog]

With comments like the one below you should come and play with me in the shallow end of the pool because FWD, OV and other are way out of your league.



Ohh and the fact that you think Manu is a sissy makes you look really intelligent.

Fixed.

What was that about lacking intelligence?

[smeagol]

Fixed.

What was that about lacking intelligence?
:lol :lol :lol :lol

Good one.

I lack intelligence because I did not re-read my post.

[~Sweetmelody~]

This is garbage, aside from the insults he also advocates violence and what really got to me was



The contamination hasn't spread that far yet. It's gotten to fellow South American Anderson Varejao (and perhaps also to this gentleman, who shared a hotel with Ginobili and then felt compelled to take an altogether different kind of dive), but no one else in the league is in Ginobili's same flopping class.


That is disgusting!

[whottt]

I wasn't taking about this forum, I was talking about the media in general. No one makes a big deal of the most obvious flopping in Football, where such an act can cost a team a possession in a sport where you only get a few a game. Much higher impact on the game when it occurs yet no one complains about it. Nice try though.



I'm with Whottt on this one. Flopping is definitely a skill, an art form that should be embraced. Manu isn't the player who flops the most, but he is certainly at the top of the list of the best flopper in the game. The way the guy can embellish actual contact with such fluid motion and really sell it is awe inspiring. Fisher is also really good at it, but he's not nearly as convincing in his movement as Manu. Manu makes me double take sometimes when he does it - he's that good. Manu is so good that people are whining when he doesn't flop just because they can't tell the difference. That's talent.


Fisher is not as good at it as he used to be when he was with LA...but he's still one of the All Time Best Floppers based on past flops. I dunno, maybe he should be behind Stockton and Malone..

The more I think about it...Malone was probably the best...he could flop while delivering an injury to the flopee...

[Rydia]

Somebody get this guy a binky!!!!

I would be whining too if the team that is kicking my butt, ruining my record, taking away my little flag that says, "Western Conference Champs", with shockingly good looks and GQ-esque like Manu were on that team....

It's sad...it's just like high school. Nobody likes the smart kid with good looks!

hahahahahaha!!

We've ruined to NBA!! Everyone jump!! We need to like the whiney Suns and Soft Mavs!! I love how all the people that reply to this post in a negative way are Mavs fans....

Did you catch a trout yet?

[aaronstampler]

Man it would suck if the NBA turned into soccer, since you know, IT'S ONLY THE MOST POPULAR SPORT IN THE WHOLE FUCKING PLANET!!!!

[timvp]

What's funny to me is the Spurs have a backcourt of perhaps the best flopper in the league and the worst flopper in the league. I wish that Parker would take lessons from Manu on how to flop.

Parker gets hammered a lot but he's so good at keeping his balance that he accidentally sells no calls instead of fouls. If Parker had 10% of Manu's flopping skills, he'd go to the line ten times per game.

[T Park]

Parker gets hammered a lot but he's so good at keeping his balance that he accidentally sells no calls instead of fouls. If Parker had 10% of Manu's flopping skills, he'd go to the line ten times per game.

Yeah, when he goes to the hole, and gets body bumped and falls to the floor, I'm always shocked how thats not a foul.

[timvp]

Yeah, when he goes to the hole, and gets body bumped and falls to the floor, I'm always shocked how thats not a foul.

It's seriously because Parker isn't a good flopper. He'll fall to the ground but it's like an "oops I tripped" fall instead of an "OMG I just got murdered" fall.

[Rydia]

It's seriously because Parker isn't a good flopper. He'll fall to the ground but it's like an "oops I tripped" fall instead of an "OMG I just got murdered" fall.
hehe I can picture him saying that!

[T Park]

Yeah, in the exit interviews Pop needs him to

"Get with Manu" on that :lol

Hell, Oberto too.

Oberto helped win game 3 vs Phoenix with his flop against Stoudamire.

[ChumpDumper]

You can almost hear Parker pardoning himself as he knifes through the D.

[aaronstampler]

You gotta go with Bell, Harris, Varejao, Nash and Horry. Manu doesn't even crack the flopping top five.

[mbass]

I hope angry...
http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/05/30/the-debriefing-manu-ginobili-needs-a-code-red/

The Debriefing: Manu Ginobili Needs a Code Red
Posted May 30th 2007 9:00AM by mjd
Filed under: Spurs, Western, NBA Playoffs, Jazz, Featured Stories

The Debriefing is a column that runs every weekday at 9:00 a.m. here on FanHouse. It goes deep into one issue and then bounces around to a plethora of smaller ones ... and does it all in a way that will make you feel like the prettiest girl at the cotillion. Bookmark this page, and visit daily.

I'd never condone a fan throwing something on to the court, but Monday night in San Antonio, as foreign objects rained down on the Spurs, I've got to confess that I wouldn't have been terribly upset if a rusty tire iron flew down from the upper deck directly into Manu Ginobili's face.

Let me be upfront about this: I'm a Spurs admirer. I strongly disagree with those who say the Spurs play boring basketball, and if I had to make a list of my favorite guys in the league to watch, Tim Duncan's probably going to be the first name on it. I'm even eager to admit that Manu Ginobili is a sensational talent.

But I've grown to hate him. You should, too. We've all got something to lose with Manu Ginobili.

I've long ago accepted flopping as a part of the NBA. Two people forced me to do so: Shaq and Vlade Divac. Shaq, because when he was in his prime, flopping was the only way to defend him. O'Neal's gargantuan proportions forced an offensive foul every time he moved towards the basket with a man behind him. But if you didn't exaggerate the effects of the contact, you weren't getting the call.

And let's not downplay Vlade's role in this, because before Ginobili, he was the NBA's flop king. I don't know if it was the beard, the accent, the chain-smoking, or just that Vlade just seemed like lovable guy, but I could never be mad at Vlade for anything. He could put pornographic pictures of my grandmother on the Jumbotron at Arco, and I'd say, "Oh, that Vlade, he's such a kidder."

Manu Ginobili, however, lacks that same charm.

Before Ginobili, the NBA sort of had its own style of flopping, different and less offensive than what goes on in soccer. It used to be limited to post play and stepping in and taking charges as someone drove the lane. But now, this balding son of a strumpet will flop anywhere on the court, at any time, at any distance away from the ball, and for any amount of pretend contact. At this point, Manu Ginobili makes Vlade Divac look like Chuck Wepner.

Let me also say that I know that Manu Ginobili isn't the only guilty party here. There are varying degrees of floppers all over the league, but Ginobili's made himself the standard-bearer. In Game 4 against Utah, his flop act was the lone reason that the sweet, harmless, completely non-aggressive Derek Fisher was ejected from the game.

Fisher picked up his first technical after he turned to run up the floor, and gently brushed up against Ginobili, who then flew backwards like he had been hit by a Buick. Fisher ended up with a technical for unintentionally grazing Ginobili with his torso. Minutes later, Fisher picked up his second T when Ginobili flopped after Fisher actually did foul him on a three-pointer. I believe Fisher said something to insult Ginobili's masculinity, the ref heard it, and Fisher was ejected.

What Ginobili's doing isn't normal, and it has to stop. I'm not merely saying that this is something I don't like, I'm not saying I want Manu Ginobili to lose. I'm saying that if those goes unchecked, I fear for the future of the NBA. I'm saying that I want Dawson and Downey to break into Ginobili's room and stuff a contaminated rag into his mouth before this goes any farther.

It's not good for anyone. It's bad for fans, as the NBA gets farther away from honest competitive efforts and closer to a contest of who can be the craftiest, sneakiest, most devious lowlife in the league. It's bad for the league because it pushes the NBA closer to soccer, which will lead to soccer-like TV ratings.

And it's bad for the players because the honest ones who attempt to walk the straight and narrow. Manu Ginobili couldn't be doing more damage to the NBA if he showed up at the rookie symposium with a smallpox blanket.

The contamination hasn't spread that far yet. It's gotten to fellow South American Anderson Varejao (and perhaps also to this gentleman, who shared a hotel with Ginobili and then felt compelled to take an altogether different kind of dive), but no one else in the league is in Ginobili's same flopping class.

And that's why I'm not worried about this sounding like a gross overstatement. This is a problem that needs to be nipped in its Argentinian bud. Protecting the NBA from serial floppers should be the league's top concern this off-season. Yes, even more important than microfiber basketballs and what type of pants Samuel Dalembert is wearing when he shows up to the arena.

I'd like to see a rule that makes a blatant flop a technical foul. I realize that it would be impossible to enforce this correctly, and that a ton of issues come along with it, but I don't care. If flopping backfires on a few of the repeat offenders and they get T'd up, the practice will slow down dramatically. This isn't something that the NBA will have to enforce vigorously for an entire year. Just show that it can happen, and the threat will be enough to keep floppers at bay.

That's not enough, though. I'd like to see some kind of internal handling of the matter ... which brings us back to the Code Red. Whatever it was that Derek Fisher said to Ginobili to get himself ejected was somewhat justified. The game had been decided by that point, he didn't cost his team anything ... the only problem is that he didn't go far enough. Maybe Fisher shouldn't have said a word, he just should have looked at Ginobili laying on the floor, and kicked him in the mouth. The series is 3-1 anyway, and the Jazz are probably going to lose tonight. He might as well have done the rest of us a favor.

Fisher's too sweet of a guy for that, though. I'm pretty confident that if I had ten minutes alone in a room with Ron Artest, I could convince him that messing up Manu Ginobili is a good thing for all of us, and it would finally get the public back on his side. I'm pretty sure that "Ron, Manu told me that everyone from Queensbridge is a pansy," would do the trick. And Ron Artest could solve all of our problems.






I HOPE MANU SHOWS THE WORLD HOW HE FEELS BY DROPPING 40 pts on the jazz tonight...........PLEASE LET IT HAPPEN!!!


All Blogs are are someone's stupid opinions :ihit - presented as fact.

[aaronstampler]

This might be the greatest article ever written, for how many journalistic rules it breaks. Consider that the author

1) Advocates fan violence toward an NBA player
2) Blatantly ignores or excuses all of Derek Fisher's flops and fouls
3) Suggests that an NBA player's mother is a prostitute
4) Suggests that two NBA players had homosexual relations or would prefer to
5) Gets the location of games wrong
6) Advocates player violence toward another NBA player
7) Ignores the fact that David Stern would bust a nut if the NBA were as popular as soccer is around the world.

Well done, MJD, well done.

[ClingingMars]

Aw, poor wittle baby Spuhs and the constant cwiticism. I'm sure Manu will curl up in the fetal position on his bed and cry himself to sleep with his championship rings. Nobody sheds any tears for the dynasties. Some of you in the Spurs fanbase need to get over yourselves.

We don't want anyone to feel sorry for us, you fucking idiot. Infact, we don't need it, since we're on our way to another championship. We're just saying that what this guy wrote is complete and utter bullshit.

-Mars

[Rydia]

This might be the greatest article ever written, for how many journalistic rules it breaks. Consider that the author

1) Advocates fan violence toward an NBA player
2) Blatantly ignores or excuses all of Derek Fisher's flops and fouls
3) Suggests that an NBA player's mother is a prostitute
4) Suggests that two NBA players had homosexual relations or would prefer to
5) Gets the location of games wrong
6) Advocates player violence toward another NBA player
7) Ignores the fact that David Stern would bust a nut if the NBA were as popular as soccer is around the world.

Well done, MJD, well done.


Wouldn't it be funny if Stern fined him??? Could he???

The violence thing is what kills me! Manu is a person regardless if she flops or not...this is wrong to suggest someone do this!

[manubili]

The only difference between manu and other regular floppers, is that manu wins championships, wherever he plays. That gets on people nerves.
lame whining article

[Obstructed_View]

It's seriously because Parker isn't a good flopper. He'll fall to the ground but it's like an "oops I tripped" fall instead of an "OMG I just got murdered" fall.
Parker actually manages to fall while avoiding guys that might otherwise clobber him. Those calls are hard to justify if he's able to evade the fouler.

[Findog]

We don't want anyone to feel sorry for us, you fucking idiot. Infact, we don't need it, since we're on our way to another championship. We're just saying that what this guy wrote is complete and utter bullshit.

-Mars

Ooh...Burn. Do they have school past 6th grade in San Antonio, or wherever you hail from? I know it's customary in some communities for children to enter the workforce in support of their parents at an early age.

[milkyway21]

he just should have looked at Ginobili laying on the floor, and kicked him in the mouth. The series is 3-1 anyway, and the Jazz are probably going to lose tonight. He might as well have done the rest of us a favor.
Fisher's too sweet of a guy for that, though. I'm pretty confident that if I had ten minutes alone in a room with Ron Artest, I could convince him that messing up Manu Ginobili is a good thing for all of us, and it would finally get the public back on his sidewhat's wrong with this guy? He thinks he needs Ron Artest to teach Manu a lesson to stop his flopping. Mess up with Manu? He didn't see the blackeye? You can do what you want with Manu but you can't stop him from playing his best because he has a mission-win the game.

The site must ban fans from writing like this-players inflicting harm on other player And just to "do him or us a favor". What favor? He's one example of a fan who shld watch the game at home than in the arena.

so inconsistent. He's against on fans throwing something on players but suggesting players to give code red to players just to teach him a lesson about what-flopping which is not a crime. Come on. He's such a loser.

he thinks Manu would stop what he's doing just to help this team win games? I don't think so..

[ClingingMars]

Ooh...Burn. Do they have school past 6th grade in San Antonio, or wherever you hail from? I know it's customary in some communities for children to enter the workforce in support of their parents at an early age.

You know what the best part of this idiotic post is? I don't live ANYWHERE NEAR San Antonio, and yet you desperately try to bash...the SCHOOL SYSTEM? I happen to attend a private high school in Virginia; the school is known for its academics.

-Mars

[Cherry]

Sad article at this point.

Stop crying about Manu! :lmao

[Findog]

I don't live ANYWHERE NEAR San Antonio,

Have you ever considered a remedial reading course?


or wherever you hail from


I happen to attend a private high school in Virginia; the school is known for its academics.



Oh, so you're still in high school, that explains everything. Good luck, son.

[mikekim]

I don't know if anyone posted this already but this idea that flopping came from the "soccer countries" is a bunch of bullshit.

http://hoopshype.com/columns/flop_hans.htm

An excerpt that sums up the excellent article:

"While amnesiac Riley blames Europe for the flop, the reality is that Fisher, Horry, Evans, Collins, Rodman, Ramsey, Lee, Laimbeer, Newlin, Miller and Sloan were born and raised in the USA and taught the game by
non-European coaches."

I personally think that Ginobili is a flopper plain and simple. BUT, I think he exaggerates contact that's already there and forces and creates the contact. Everyone creates contact...manu makes sure it's seen. It's not pretty but I don't hate him for it. He does take hits the majority of the time I would say.

And at other times, like Game 4, he mimics whatever the opponent is doing to him. Fisher flops on a small little shoulder that is protecting Manu's rightful space as an offensive player, so Ginobili flops on Fisher's aggressive defense. An opponent knocks him down while the ref isn't looking, then Manu's gonna try to grab you and take you down with him or prevent you from doing something you want to do while the ref isn't looking (that's what happened when he grabbed amare's leg in the suns series). I would try to do the exact same thing if I were in Manu's position. But he's too much of a stud that I wouldn't be able to do what he does on the court ;)