Trade Parker While He Has Value

[CaptainLate]

[ rob (philly): I think the United States Basketball team has their PG for the next 2 Olympics. His name is Deron Williams.

Bill Simmons: I'm a huge fan of Williams, but let's not get carried away - he's doing this against Tony Parker (who's made many a PG look like a Hall of Famer over the years) and Bruce Bowen (who doesn't have the foot speed to stay in front of PG's anymore). Chris Paul would be ripping the Spurs up just the same. ]


You heard it here first. TP is showing us AGAIN, :dizzy that he is not reliable when the Big Dance comes to town. So trade him now while teams still think he is a top 5 PG. Find someone who can CONSISTENTLY do it on both ends of the floor, or a stud SF.

[Spurminator]

You can't trade players in the middle of the Playoffs.

[/thread]

[jag]

wow, just shut the hell up.

[BigBeezie]

Deron Williams isn't as good as Parker or any of the other point guards they have been comparing him to. It's pretty sad really.

[smeagol]

I forsee a 5 page thread

[nkdlunch]

remember Billups when he had that 1 super great playoff run? remember Wade?

let's wait a couple of years before making Williams the next Jordan.

[powerpower]

no way parker stays a spur

[degenerate_gambler]

remember Billups when he had that 1 super great playoff run? remember Wade?

let's wait a couple of years before making Williams the next Jordan.


no shit..

way too much ass kissing of this guy.

all he is is this year's version of kevin martin.

[K-State Spur]

This is why I don't get it when people say that Bill Simmons is so knowledgeable. I enjoy his humor quite a bit, but on any non-Celtic matters, he can be very hit or miss.

Parker makes other PGs look like stars? He's had quality D on AI, Nash, and Barbosa in this postseason. Fisher has been non-existent in part due to to Tony's defense.

[Marcus Bryant]

On how many possessions in this series has TP actually guarded Williams?

[Mr. Body]

Simmons is stupid here.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

man, not another idiotic thread. I think we've had a record number of these during these playoffs...

[MadDog73]

Tony will be a Spur for life, and end up better than Steve Nash.

Bookmark it for posterity.

[Budkin]

Come on dude... pull your head out.

[CosmicCowboy]

We have a team thats 5 wins away from being NBA champions again.

What the fuck are all these trade threads doing in here?

[duncan228]

We have a team thats 5 wins away from being NBA champions again.

What the fuck are all these trade threads doing in here?

It would seem that some people are never satisfied.

[romain.star]

two rings and a half in the last 5 years.... yeah TP has to be a joke...

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Parker will always be a liability to this team until he finds a way to stop being French.

[703 Spurz]

Trade him for what?

TP isnt a score first PG like Williams is. Bad comparison

[CosmicCowboy]

Parker will always be a liability to this team until he finds a way to stop being French.

I think Eva has sucked most of the French out of him.

[Juice]

Tony is playing the best D of his career and you want to trade him?

[Marcus Bryant]

All the Spurs need to do is focus on improving the supporting cast surrounding the Big 3. Stop trying to fix what isn't broken.

[Slinkyman]

On how many possessions in this series has TP actually guarded Williams?

then the question would be, WHY isn't parker guarding Williams? :p:

[ChumpDumper]

Ask Manny if the forecast calls for moderate to high stupidity this evening.

[SRJ]

Jesus H. Christ.

Name five PGs better than Parker under the age of thirty. (Disqualifying Kidd, Nash, and the considerably overrated Chauncey Billups)

Deron Williams? Big talent, but one nice playoff run does not a great player make.
Chris Paul? Big talent, no question - so how hasn't he pushed the Hornets into the eighth seed just once?
Baron Davis? Does he ever play a full season?
Kirk Hinrich? Solid, and better defensively than Parker, but I'll take Parker.
TJ Ford? Nice, but I'll take Parker.
Jason Terry? Please.
Mike Bibby? Please again.

I hate that I wasted my time with this.

[Cry Havoc]

no shit..

way too much ass kissing of this guy.

all he is is this year's version of kevin martin.

Wow, spoken like an idiot who has only been watching this kid for two weeks.

I've seen this guy play for over four years now. He's the real deal. He's only going to get better, and he's got the highest B-Ball IQ of anyone on the court except for Tim and maybe Oberto.

[Cry Havoc]

Jesus H. Christ.

Name five PGs better than Parker under the age of thirty. (Disqualifying Kidd, Nash, and the considerably overrated Chauncey Billups)

Deron Williams? Big talent, but one nice playoff run does not a great player make.
Chris Paul? Big talent, no question - so how hasn't he pushed the Hornets into the eighth seed just once?
Baron Davis? Does he ever play a full season?
Kirk Hinrich? Solid, and better defensively than Parker, but I'll take Parker.
TJ Ford? Nice, but I'll take Parker.
Jason Terry? Please.
Mike Bibby? Please again.

I hate that I wasted my time with this.

In the 82 game season, Deron Williams was 2nd in assists behind Steve Nash.

So obviously this isn't just a fluke series.

[Kori Ellis]

Embarrassing thread.

The Spurs are in the playoffs right now.

Save the trade threads til the offseason.

(By the way, Tony has been pretty good this postseason - offensively and defensively. He hasn't been guarding DWill very much.)

[SRJ]

Hey, I don't mean to discredit Williams, but is he clearly better than Tony Parker?

Some Spurs fans focus upon Parker's few shortcomings instead of his many assets. Wake up knuckleheads, Tony is not a liability.

[Alamode]

We have a team thats 5 wins away from being NBA champions again.

What the fuck are all these trade threads doing in here?

Apparently this forum has a bunch of ingrates who can't appreciate the moment and the fact that fans across the NBA would kill to have the luxury of supporting such a winning team.

Some loyalty these people have, huh? :rolleyes I don't even consider these "trade" people true Spurs fans. And if they think they are then they are greedy little pissants who can't appreciate the AWESOME talent they have and may never have again in their lifetime.

Enjoy the damn moment, you may never see it again. And give your team with its CURRENT ROSTER the friggin' respect they deserve. I could imagine Parker with 5 wins away from multiple championships seeing this thread and saying "What the hell do I have to do to please these people?" Not a damn thing, Tony. You do (some of us) proud. :clap

[SequSpur]

TONY PARKER IS ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THE SPURS ARE GOING TO THE NBA FINALS. LAST TIME I CHECKED DERON WILLIAMS HAS A GUIDED FISHING TRIP BOOKED FOR TOMORROW.

WTF?

TONY PARKER IS THE BEST POINT GUARD IN THE NBA. CHECK THE FUCKING SCOREBOARD....

GEEZUS KRISTE ALMIGHTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MadDog73]

Awesome!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[mardigan]

Tomy used to be one of my least favorite Spurs ever when we first got him.He has worked so f-ing hard for the SPurs franchise and become such a threat that at times watching last game I found myself thinking at that he might be one of my favorite players the Spurs have ever had. His experience, work ethic, attitude towards winning and the fact that he is a great teamate are looked past by many Spur fans. I was one of the ones that wanted the Spurs to bring in Kidd. I now feel very stupid for that notion. Tony has become one of the best point guards in the league. Yes there are some points that can do things he cant, but name me another point who can do the things he can.

[ginobili fan]

Bill simmons is a hater he can suck his ass.
Come on.
The 2 first games ,clearly the best was Tony.
Deron scoring in the 4th was a bullshit: the game was already over.
The 3rd game was a no game from the spurs but tony still made 25.
The 4th game was the first "bad" game of Tony this postseason.
SO YEAH, I THINK HE DESERVES TO BE TRADED AND HE is DERON'S BITCH SINCE BRUCE IS DEFENDING SO WELL ON DERON.

[mardigan]

How do all these trade players threads come up on the verge of a title?

[SequSpur]

How is Parker Deron's bitch when the scoreboard clearly says its over for Deron? Huh? Huh? Huh? WTF? Huh? Huh? Huh?

WTF?

[ginobili fan]

Seriously tell me what deron is doing apart being a good shooter and being hot this series because he's motivated as hell playing against his master tony and the spurs.
Tony doesn't give a fuck !!!!!what he wants is to win an another fucking ring that's all.
Plus honestly, the jazz system is only for deron: PICK AND ROLL: SHOOT OR PASS THE BALL TO BOOZER. THEN EACH TIME YOU GET AN ASSIST .
IT's BULLSHIT Im NOT SAYING DERON SUCKS BT HE's NOT THE BETTER PG.

[Kori Ellis]

How do all these trade players threads come up on the verge of a title?

Spurs fans are spoiled.

They don't realize that these are amazing years for the franchise and they should be basking in it instead of sitting ripping the players and the team.

Recognize.

[Budkin]

GO SEQU GO! :lmao

[ginobili fan]

How do all these trade players threads come up on the verge of a title?

you have the answer when you see which team's forum is.

[SequSpur]

DON'T MAKE ME GET ALL BIG AND SHIT UP IN HERE!!!! PARKER IS FRICKIN AWESOME... THE BEST POINT GUARD IN THE HISTORY OF BLACK AND SILVER... DUDE IS SWINGING IT ALL OVER THE PLACE...

WTF?

[Kori Ellis]

Tony is 25 years old, averaging 20 and 7 and playing some of the best D of his career in the postseason. And his team is up 3-1 in the WCF.
[/end thread]

[tmtcsc]

I think Eva has sucked most of the French out of him.

She can suck the French out of me anytime. Hell, I'd let her suck until she realized I didn't have nay French in me to begin with.

[SequSpur]

Tony is 25 years old, averaging 20 and 7 and playing some of the best D of his career in the postseason. And his team is up 3-1 in the WCF.
[/end thread]

[SequSpur]

Frenchfryowned.

[texasqb2]

Deron Williams isn't as good as Parker or any of the other point guards they have been comparing him to. It's pretty sad really.


Oh boy....I guess we haven't been watching the same Deron Williams...I am the biggest spur fan alive and I would take him over TP. He's the complete package and will be the top PG for a long time if he isn't already. Just look at what he has done in Utah already with that team.

[ginobili fan]

I love frenchfry hummmmm

[SequSpur]

Oh boy....I guess we haven't been watching the same Deron Williams...I am the biggest spur fan alive and I would take him over TP. He's the complete package and will be the top PG for a long time if he isn't already. Just look at what he has done in Utah already with that team.

What? He is going home losing 4 to 1 to the Tony Parker led Spurs.

Huh?

[ChumpDumper]

Sequ is going to get big?

[mardigan]

Oh boy....I guess we haven't been watching the same Deron Williams...I am the biggest spur fan alive and I would take him over TP. He's the complete package and will be the top PG for a long time if he isn't already. Just look at what he has done in Utah already with that team.
Whoa, whoa whoa, Deron is having a great series so far, but lets not get carried away. He averaged 16 points a game this year, and averaged the same in the first 2 series, lets not act like this kid is averaging a triple double or something. Amare averaged way more points than Tim in 05, should we have taken him over Tim as well?

[ginobili fan]

Oh boy....I guess we haven't been watching the same Deron Williams...I am the biggest spur fan alive and I would take him over TP. He's the complete package and will be the top PG for a long time if he isn't already. Just look at what he has done in Utah already with that team.

As I said you have to see deron in spurs system to realize he's a BULLSHIT.
TONY in jazz team would average 40 and 10.
The only thing deron can do is shooting WHEN THE GAME IS OVER OR WHEN HE HAS A FLU SO HE CAN BE THE QUEEN OF THE PUSSIES AND SAY THAT HE'S A GOD EVEN HE PLAYS ON ONE LEG.
I mean deron is a SG not a PG.

[ginobili fan]

When TONY WILL GET A 3POINT JUMPSHOOT (That means maybe never) HE WILL DESTROY EVERYONE IN THE NBA EVEN JORDAN.

[mardigan]

I mean deron is a SG not a PG.
Williams averaged over 9 assists a game this year and is averaging around 9 assists in this years playoffs, Im pretty sure hes a point guard. Dont pretend that Deron isnt a badass player

[twentyone]

On how many possessions in this series has TP actually guarded Williams?

BUMP

TP isn't guarding Williams. The whole damn comment is null, worthless, and shows the guy doesn't know what he's talking about to boot. I've seen MB post this twice now and yet here is this thread.

:madrun

[timvp]

Bill Simmons: I'm a huge fan of Williams, but let's not get carried away - he's doing this against Tony Parker (who's made many a PG look like a Hall of Famer over the years) and Bruce Bowen (who doesn't have the foot speed to stay in front of PG's anymore).

That might be the most flawed sentence I've ever seen. First of all, in the regular season, point guards against the Spurs average fewer points and shoot for a worse percentage than against any other team in the league. In the playoffs, when has a point guard ever had their best playoff series with Parker guarding him?

I don't think it's ever happened. And most of the time, it's an unfair fight because the opposing point guard can't even defend Parker so they have to put someone else on him.

Deron Williams is having a monster series ... but he's being defended by Bowen.

Which brings up the stupidness of the quote that "Bowen doesn't have the foot speed to say in front of PG's anymore". Since when did Bowen ever guard point guards? He used to switch off onto them for maybe a quarter or so, but these are the first playoffs where he was assigned to guard point guards. And how many 6-foot-7 players in the history of the league could guard Nash or Williams at any age?

I don't blame Simmons too much though because I'm sure he hasn't watched basketball much since justice prevailed and the Celtics got the fifth pick.

:smokin

[texasqb2]

Why isn't this thread lock...at least the Kobe one was entertaining...we should seriously lock every thread on spurstalk

[ginobili fan]

Williams averaged over 9 assists a game this year and is averaging around 9 assists in this years playoffs, Im pretty sure hes a point guard. Dont pretend that Deron isnt a badass player

OK You're right he's not a badass but hen isn't certainly a master.
And I mean tony would average 9 assists too if he was jazz's pg.
He's already averaging 7 with the spurs which is a miracle.

[SequSpur]

All i know is Parker is the best point guard in the NBA. I've been telling you ding dongs for years, but you're too dumb to figure it out.

[Slomo]

[ rob (philly): I think the United States Basketball team has their PG for the next 2 Olympics. His name is Deron Williams.

Bill Simmons: I'm a huge fan of Williams, but let's not get carried away - he's doing this against Tony Parker (who's made many a PG look like a Hall of Famer over the years) and Bruce Bowen (who doesn't have the foot speed to stay in front of PG's anymore). Chris Paul would be ripping the Spurs up just the same. ]


You heard it here first. TP is showing us AGAIN, :dizzy that he is not reliable when the Big Dance comes to town. So trade him now while teams still think he is a top 5 PG. Find someone who can CONSISTENTLY do it on both ends of the floor, or a stud SF.http://www.cikava.com/gallery/albums/Emoticons/to_the_dogs.jpg

[ATXSPUR]

Why isn't this thread lock...at least the Kobe one was entertaining...we should seriously lock every thread on spurstalk

Lol you are reminding me of one of those orangebloods.com posters right now.

[Cry Havoc]

That might be the most flawed sentence I've ever seen. First of all, in the regular season, point guards against the Spurs average fewer points and shoot for a worse percentage than against any other team in the league. In the playoffs, when has a point guard ever had their best playoff series with Parker guarding him?

I don't think it's ever happened. And most of the time, it's an unfair fight because the opposing point guard can't even defend Parker so they have to put someone else on him.

Deron Williams is having a monster series ... but he's being defended by Bowen.

Which brings up the stupidness of the quote that "Bowen doesn't have the foot speed to say in front of PG's anymore". Since when did Bowen ever guard point guards? He used to switch off onto them for maybe a quarter or so, but these are the first playoffs where he was assigned to guard point guards. And how many 6-foot-7 players in the history of the league could guard Nash or Williams at any age?

I don't blame Simmons too much though because I'm sure he hasn't watched basketball much since justice prevailed and the Celtics got the fifth pick.

:smokin


So what's your take on Williams? I'm just curious because there are so many people here criticizing his game when it's obvious they've only seen two series out of him, at most.

[texasqb2]

buddy...Deron Williams is a better all around PG than Tony, that's a no brainer....Tony however is among the best PGs no doubt, but this kid Deron is amazing.

[texasqb2]

Tony is definitely emerging, but I beg to ask the question....Would we have won more titles up until this point if we would have signed J-Kidd that summer? I say yes but speaking as of today, I am glad we didn't make the move b/c Tony has a much longer and brighter future, but I felt at the time we needed to make a move while Duncan was playing at his peak.

[SequSpur]

Parker uses Kidd like the skidmarks in his underwear.... NEXT....

[bigfan]

I'd take Parker over any PG currently in the league right now. STHU

[mardigan]

buddy...Deron Williams is a better all around PG than Tony, that's a no brainer....Tony however is among the best PGs no doubt, but this kid Deron is amazing.
So even though Tony averaged more points, less turnovers and shot a higher fg% in 4 less minutes a game this season Deron is clearly better because of one series. Dumb

[ginobili fan]

buddy...Deron Williams is a better all around PG than Tony, that's a no brainer....Tony however is among the best PGs no doubt, but this kid Deron is amazing.

OK SO TELL ME WHY HE IS SO AMAZING?
I Mean the only thing i see on the court is a obese kid shooting,and shooting,and shooting and pick and rolling, pick and rolling and picke and rolling...
He only know two systems: shooting(is it a system?) and pick and roll with the real star of the jazz team: carlos boozer.

[texasqb2]

So even though Tony averaged more points, less turnovers and shot a higher fg% in 4 less minutes a game this season Deron is clearly better because of one series. Dumb

I'll take players who rise to the occasion any day. Deron will naturally shoot a lower % b/c he is more of a jump shooter. And less TOs in less minutes would make sense, so that statement was silly.

[texasqb2]

OK SO TELL ME WHY HE IS SO AMAZING?
I Mean the only thing i see on the court is a obese kid shooting,and shooting,and shooting and pick and rolling, pick and rolling and picke and rolling...
He only know two systems: shooting(is it a system?) and pick and roll with the real star of the jazz team: carlos boozer.

This is so silly to act like Deron is not a great PG....that's why you don't have a job in the media and the experts who watch all the NBA not just the spurs all agree that this kid is a superstar.

[ginobili fan]

And I'm sorry but with Timmy it's pretty hard to have a good assist statistic :when you give him a great assist to a tunnel,he is blocked by boozer ha ha ha aha

[texasqb2]

OK SO TELL ME WHY HE IS SO AMAZING?
I Mean the only thing i see on the court is a obese kid shooting,and shooting,and shooting and pick and rolling, pick and rolling and picke and rolling...
He only know two systems: shooting(is it a system?) and pick and roll with the real star of the jazz team: carlos boozer.


Also you always fail to mention this.....Parker has the best player in the league alongside him which makes his life a whole lot easier.

[ginobili fan]

This is so silly to act like Deron is not a great PG....that's why you don't have a job in the media and the experts who watch all the NBA not just the spurs all agree that this kid is a superstar.

Actually I'm happy that I don't have a job in the media when you see some bitches like bill simmons being so smart and right.

[timvp]

So what's your take on Williams? I'm just curious because there are so many people here criticizing his game when it's obvious they've only seen two series out of him, at most.

He's damn good. For a player of his age to be doing what he's doing against the Spurs is amazing.

He probably is better than Tony Parker as far as an individual basis. But there's not much shame in that since Williams is playing like he'll be the best point guard in the league in a couple seasons and a top five player before long.

Parker is a very good fit for what the Spurs need and he's a two-time champion and a two-time all-star at the age of 25. He's also a better defender and a probably a better scorer. Williams is probably a better playmaker and plays in a system better suited to showcase a point guard.

Players like Parker, Manu and Bowen aren't close to be the best players at their position in the NBA, but it doesn't really matter. Winning is all that's remembered and those three players give the Spurs a damn good shot at winning night in and night out.

[aaronstampler]

I agree, this is a pretty dumb idea. Tony's defense has been his biggest improvement this season and he's probably a top 5 defender at his position now. The only PGs in the league I'd trade Tony for are Williams and Paul, and they won't be available, so it's moot.

And before any haters come at me, yes I'd trade Manu for LeBron or Wade...

The one statement I disagree with though is I doubt Tony will be a Spur for life, no matter how our management or fans feel about him. I think one his deal is up he's heading for shinier pastures out west.

[mardigan]

I'll take players who rise to the occasion any day. Deron will naturally shoot a lower % b/c he is more of a jump shooter. And less TOs in less minutes would make sense, so that statement was silly.
Wouldnt rising to the occasion include wins? So according to your logic Amare>>>Tim right?

[ginobili fan]

Also you always fail to mention this.....Parker has the best player in the league alongside him which makes his life a whole lot easier.

WTF?
Tim helps tony to win titles This is sure for 100000000% OK but it's not Tim who bring tony to the rim,it's not tim who helps him scoring mid-range shots,it's not Tim who boost tony's speed,it's not tim who doesn't get blocked when tony gives him a sweet pass,it's not tim who helped tony getting eva....
But yeah Tim is the reason tony has 2 rings.
AND That's why tony leds a team 3-1 in WCF

[aaronstampler]

.

Players like Parker, Manu and Bowen aren't close to be the best players at their position in the NBA, but it doesn't really matter. Winning is all that's remembered and those three players give the Spurs a damn good shot at winning night in and night out.

I disagree with you about Tony and Manu.

I think you can argue that Tony is somewhere between the 4th and 6th best PG in the NBA.

You have Nash, Kidd, and Williams at 1-2-3, but then you'd have to put Tony in that second tier along with Paul and Baron Davis. I can't really think of anyone else. He's definitely better than Billups at this point.

As for Manu, how many SGs would you seriously take over him? Remember, LeBron, T-Mac, and Pierce are all 3s. The PER numbers say it all. The only SGs you take over Manu are Kobe and Wade. I'd definitely take him over Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Michael Redd and Joe Johnson. None of those guys can play worth a lick in a big game and have no clue how to make their teammates better.

[ginobili fan]

I Would Take Manu Over Kobe Or Wade Because Kobe And Wade Would Be Worthless With The Spurs.

[timvp]

The PER numbers say it all.

The PER numbers don't say it all. Instead of taking value away from players not able to play major minutes (due to foul trouble, fatigue, etc.), it gives them much more value. Manu is a great player but PER assumes that he'd play the same way if he were on a team where he had to play closer to 45 minutes a game instead of closer to 30.

Per minute, Manu is one of the best players in the league. Factoring in that Manu can't play as much as other premiere shooting guards in the league, players like Kobe, LeBron, Wade, McGrady, Pierce and Carmelo all have to come into the picture.

And yes, all six of those players could play the same position Ginobili plays for the Spurs (2 on offense, 3 on defense most nights).

That said, Manu fits perfectly on the Spurs. They can limit his minutes, keep him fresh and have the shooters and post threat needed to space the floor for him.

[aaronstampler]

1. I think Manu can play 35 mins a game no problem.
2. I believe PER is based on 40 mins a game, not 48.
3. I think playing so many minutes hurts most of these star players rather than helps them. If AI, LeBron, Wade etc. played 36 minutes instead of 40+, they'd probably value their possessions more and not be prone to the mental and physical fatigue that leads to them chucking so many bad shots. One thing I like a lot about Pop and dislike about other coaches is that most of the others are too insecure to rest their stars for too long, even though anything over 40 minutes, you're going to get some diminishing returns from these guys, no matter how well conditioned they are.

It's really the same thing as the Cal Ripken argument. He really would've been a lot better player if he didn't give a shit about some stupid longevity record and played only 152 games a year instead of 162.

[ducks]

manu plays 40 minutes a night he can not play the next night
manu is good when attacking
when manu becomes more of a jumpshooter is when he is not as good
I do not want manu to play 40 minutes a night
why he would not play as well if he plays 40 minutes a night
if he plays 25-30 minutes a night he plays much better
because of the way he plays

[ClingingMars]

Isn't our plan to let Deron Williams score as much as he wants, but to make sure that his supporting cast gets absolutely nothing (with the exception of Boozer)?

-Mars

[ducks]

Per 48 Minutes NOT 40

[timvp]

1. I think Manu can play 35 mins a game no problem.
He never has on any level but I guess anything is possible.


2. I believe PER is based on 40 mins a game, not 48.

It doesn't matter how many minutes it's multiplied out to. It's basically a per minute calculation.


3. I think playing so many minutes hurts most of these star players rather than helps them. If AI, LeBron, Wade etc. played 36 minutes instead of 40+, they'd probably value their possessions more and not be prone to the mental and physical fatigue that leads to them chucking so many bad shots.

True. Which is why it's difficult comparing Manu to players who are forced to play 10+ more minutes per game using a formula that only tracks per minute production.

[ducks]

I forsee a 5 page thread
it is 4 now :rolleyes

[aaronstampler]

True. Which is why it's difficult comparing Manu to players who are forced to play 10+ more minutes per game using a formula that only tracks per minute production.

They're not "forced" into anything. They ask for the abuse because they're too stupid to know any better. If anything, they're the ones doing the forcing.

[wildbill2u]

Can anyone deny that Parker has IMPROVED his game every year? He's still to reach his limit on talent.

[smeagol]

I forsee a 5 page thread
We are getting there . . .

[2centsworth]

I didn't take the time to read this, but all I know is that Parker and Manu are my favorite spurs and if they are ever traded I would be pissed. Guys are going to wind up with 3-5 rings a piece and we're talking about trading them.

HELL FREAKIN NO!!!

[Marcus Bryant]

Fuck man, I remember the days when I thought about trading anyone in sight so that the Spurs could win a championship. That's no longer an issue.

Spurs fans don't know what they have.

[smeagol]

it is 4 now :rolleyes
I was also going to say the thread would turn out to be a Manu vs Tony.

People would've said I'm psychic (not really :depressed )

[td4mvp21]

First of all, Deron Williams is playing out of his mind. The Spurs defense has been pretty good and he still scores. You're not going to see that too often. He's even scored on Bowen. Parker is a good defensive player by himself; he is not great but he is pretty good. Second of all, I don't think people realize what Parker means to this team. He and Tim are best buds and have great chemistry together, as he does with everyone else on the team. Without Parker, the Spurs do not play well. When he has a bad game, more than often the Spurs lose. Like Timvp pointed out a while back, the Spurs have only lost like 1 game when Parker scores 25+ points in the playoffs. He still averages 5 assists with 20 ppg. Who else is there to replace him? He is an almost near perfect fit for the Spurs.

[Nikos]

You have to penalize Manu for not actually playing 35+. It's nice that he is ridiculously good in 30mpg, but thats like 7-8 mpg less than the average all star, minutes that he should be on the floor making a difference offensively and defensively. His PER would definitely shrink if he had to play 35-36mpg. How much? Who knows, but the PER does show that he is underrated if you compare him to guys who probably have a PER of 16-19 but just play a huge amount of minutes, get a large amount of shots while playing average defense....

I don't know if its fair to say Manu is better than Michael Redd or Ray Allen because those guys have to shoulder a lot of their teams offense, and they play a huge amount of minutes. Same for guys like Pierce, Carmelo, and Iverson.

Manu isn't really better than any of those guys, he might be on par when they are having 'OFF' years, but you can't say for certain he is the superior player. Maybe a more efficient 2nd/3rd gun, but that doesn't neccesarily mean he is the superior player.

[Spurminator]

You can't trade players in the middle of the Playoffs.

[/thread]


:depressed

[exstatic]

When Chauncey Billups was 25, he was an unqualified BUST. When Gary Payton was 25, Seattle was shopping him because he had no jumper. You don't give up on a 25 YO PG because he's not everything you want him to be, yet.

[timvp]

They're not "forced" into anything. They ask for the abuse because they're too stupid to know any better. If anything, they're the ones doing the forcing.

So players control how many minutes they play?

Interesting.

[timvp]

You have to penalize Manu for not actually playing 35+. It's nice that he is ridiculously good in 30mpg, but thats like 7-8 mpg less than the average all star, minutes that he should be on the floor making a difference offensively and defensively. His PER would definitely shrink if he had to play 35-36mpg. How much? Who knows, but the PER does show that he is underrated if you compare him to guys who probably have a PER of 16-19 but just play a huge amount of minutes, get a large amount of shots while playing average defense....

I don't know if its fair to say Manu is better than Michael Redd or Ray Allen because those guys have to shoulder a lot of their teams offense, and they play a huge amount of minutes. Same for guys like Pierce, Carmelo, and Iverson.

Manu isn't really better than any of those guys, he might be on par when they are having 'OFF' years, but you can't say for certain he is the superior player. Maybe a more efficient 2nd/3rd gun, but that doesn't neccesarily mean he is the superior player.

Well said.

But given that, when Manu is on, there isn't a swingman I'd want in the league more than Manu when it comes to winning time.

[smeagol]

No offense, but whoever thinks Parker should be traded is an idiot.

[exstatic]

They're not "forced" into anything. They ask for the abuse because they're too stupid to know any better. If anything, they're the ones doing the forcing.
If Kobe played 27.5 minutes instead of 40.8, the Lakers wouldn't make the playoffs. That's "forced" by circumstance.

[Nikos]

To be honest I don't think Parker is going to improve much in terms of the regular season. He is already an all star caliber PG who has some room for improvement. His defense is pretty good. The only knock on him is he isn't a spectacular play maker in terms of creating for other teamattes -- some of that is the system, some of that is simply his own style. The only thing I want from him is to be more lucky in the playoffs. So far he hasn't been very good in most of his NBA playoff appearences. In all of them he has had some spectacular games, but he has also had some horrible ones in every playoff as well. I would like to see him breakout in the playoffs more instead of just playing very good on many nights and poor on others. He is capable of more offensive productiveness in the playoffs, and I hope to see it from him for the rest of this playoffs, and in the future.

For now I will call him unlucky in the playoffs. In the regular season he has been excellent the past two seasons, and has also been very good in 03-05. No sense in trading him.

[Man Mountain]

So far he hasn't been very good in most of his NBA playoff appearences. In all of them he has had some spectacular games, but he has also had some horrible ones in every playoff as well. I would like to see him breakout in the playoffs more instead of just playing very good on many nights and poor on others. He is capable of more offensive productiveness in the playoffs, and I hope to see it from him for the rest of this playoffs, and in the future.

That's probably true for every player in the playoffs. I don't know if people don't watch other players enough or just expect to much, but in these 2007 playoff Parker has been pretty consistent. (I'm not talking about last year when he was hurt - or the prior years when he was so young) Players are going to always have an off night now and again, but they aren't machines. Parker and Oberto have probably been the most consistent players in thisSpurs postseason.

[ThomasGranger]

I forsee a 5 page thread

Almost there

[Nikos]

That's probably true for every player in the playoffs. I don't know if people don't watch other players enough or just expect to much, but in these 2007 playoff Parker has been pretty consistent. (I'm not talking about last year when he was hurt - or the prior years when he was so young) Players are going to always have an off night now and again, but they aren't machines. Parker and Oberto have probably been the most consistent players in thisSpurs postseason.

I am not talking about consistency in the sense of how many games the player is or isn't horrible. It's more a combination of stats and general observation. Tony's averages/numbers usually drop in efficiency in the playoffs by a reasonable amount, something that can't happen. He may be good on D, and consistent from game to game, but he doesn't have enough awesome games to merit the horrible games he has had. The statistics show the inconsistency, even if by the naked eye it looks like Parker is the least inconsistent on the Spurs. Consistent to me is also about having some great games, minimal horrible games, and playing at a level matching or exceeding your regular season. That's just comes with observing statistics, not only watching the games and going by if the player made timely shots etc....

My inconsistent label for Tony more pertains to his drop in efficiency and playoff productiveness when comparing to his regular season. I am not trying to say he isn't playing good defense, or that no other player isn't consistent or inconsistent. Just that Parker is capable of playing better (or at least was in some of his previous playoff runs). I do think this is Parker's best playoffs to date.....

[Man Mountain]

Consistent to me is also about having some great games, minimal horrible games, and playing at a level matching or exceeding your regular season. .....

So, in your eyes, what were his horrible games this post season that are numbering more than his great games?

[Nikos]

So, in your eyes, what were his horrible games this post season that are numbering more than his great games?

Like I said, he hasn't really done poorly this playoffs, just statistically he is weaker than his regular season. Same goes with Manu, but Parker a little more so. Parker may have been more consistent than Manu this playoffs however, and he does play more minutes.

But I was speaking more in the past playoffs like 03, 04, sometimes 05, and less so in 06 considering his health.

I do expect more than he has showed this playoffs, but I am pleased with his D. Manu I am also dissapointed with for the most part too. Duncan and Oberto seem to be the biggest playoff performers relative to their regular season contributions.

[midgetonadonkey]

If anyone should be traded it's Ginobili. I think we can get some quality players for him this offseason.

[Man Mountain]

20/7 isn't really statistically weaker than his regular season. He's had some bad turnover games and his FG% isn't incredible - but he's still had a statistically solid postseason so far. I'm take 20/7 and good D without complaint.

If you look at the top players in the league, they all have had bad nights in the post season - Duncan, LeBron, Billups, Manu, on and on. I just think, for whatever reason, people think Parker (and most Spurs players) should be robots.

[Don Quixote]

You guys are ridiculous.

At least wait until after we've taken home Trophy #4 before we run our best players out of town. And isn't winning the title the whole point?

[ClingingMars]

Yeah, let's trade away the little guy who makes a bunch of hustle plays every night. Brilliant idea, guys.

(pleaselockthisthread)

-Mars

[itzsoweezee]

yeah, that tony parker really sucks.

[ehz33satx]

Tony will be a Spur for life, and end up better than Steve Nash.

Bookmark it for posterity.

How many championships does Steve Nash have in his possession? On the other hand, how many rings does Tony Parker have? Tony over Steve

[ehz33satx]

For that matter, how many rings does Jason Kidd have? Steve Francis? Jason Terry? You can put just about any point guard on there and Tony Parker sports more rings then all of them put together.

[BIG IRISH]

no way parker stays a spur

iF HE GETS A BETTER DEAL, GO FOR THE $

That said, the Spurs better start building around TP if they don't
when TD Retires, the spurs can look for a finals apperance 5-10
years afer TD Leaves, unless the Boston Curse comes to SA

[Brutalis]

Retaad

[SpursIndonesia]

No need to fabricate arguments in TP's behalf, he answered it himself with his performance tonite. :lol

[Brazil]

See Elnono this was a great trade Parker thread

[SpursIndonesia]

No need to fabricate arguments in TP's behalf, he answered it himself with his performance tonite. :lol

Me posting 6 years ago, supporting future Spurs cornerstone like it should have been. :hat

[will_spurs]

Quality bump considering this was written just before #4 and Finals MVP :)

[ElNono]

See Elnono this was a great trade Parker thread

This thread actually is proof positive of why you need to sell high. The praise DWill received here (including timvp "top five player before long" crofl) just goes to show that getting fat and lazy is just around the corner, tbh

[will_spurs]

The praise DWill received here (including timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) "top five player before long" crofl) just goes to show that getting fat and lazy is just around the corner, tbh

Come on, don't be too hard on Manu.

[waisman]

I wanted to trade TP .
But now is not Hill .
Now , even backup PG is not ...

[AFBlue]

Not clutch tbh. Should've picked up Fisher when we had the chance.