Pistons demise caused by Darko pick

[BradLohaus]

For all the credit that Joe Dumars gets for buliding that team, it seems like he doesn't get the criticizm that he derserves for picking an unproven 19 year old European big man over proven college superstars Melo and Wade.

Ever since their title in '04 Detroit has been feeling the negative effects of that pick a little more each year from '05 onward. No matter what the drafet experts were saying, Darko was still an unproven commodity while Melo and Wade were guaranteed future NBA all-stars at the least. The Pistons were already contenders and Dumars should have taken a player that would help them contend right away.

Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but a GM is paid to have foresight. It's not out of the question that the Darko pick might have caused the Piston's last three playoff defeats since their title.

[Bear Grylls]

For all the credit that Joe Dumars gets for buliding that team, it seems like he doesn't get the criticizm that he derserves for picking an unproven 19 year old European big man over proven college superstars Melo, Wade and Chris Bosh.



Fixed

[Chris Childs]

For all the credit that Joe Dumars gets for buliding that team, it seems like he doesn't get the criticizm that he derserves for picking an unproven 19 year old European big man over proven college superstars Melo and Wade.

Ever since their title in '04 Detroit has been feeling the negative effects of that pick a little more each year from '05 onward. No matter what the drafet experts were saying, Darko was still an unproven commodity while Melo and Wade were guaranteed future NBA all-stars at the least. The Pistons were already contenders and Dumars should have taken a player that would help them contend right away.
Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but a GM is paid to have foresight. It's not out of the question that the Darko pick might have caused the Piston's last three playoff defeats since their title.



The pistons drafted Darko in 2003. They picked up Rasheed and made the finals in 2004 and won the title. They also went to the finals again the next year. They were victims of the D-Wade/LeBron marketing force. If D-Wade or Melo went to the pistons, Larry Brown would of done the same thing he did to Darko, let them rot on the bench and make them lose their confidence in their abilities. Pistons> any other team in the east for the last 5 years.

CLOSE THREAD.

[E20]

LMAO I can't believe they passed up Melo, Wade, Bosh for Darko. LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

[BradLohaus]

The pistons drafted Darko in 2003. They picked up Rasheed and made the finals in 2004 and won the title. They also went to the finals again the next year. They were victims of the D-Wade/LeBron marketing force. If D-Wade or Melo went to the pistons, Larry Brown would of done the same thing he did to Darko, let them rot on the bench and make them lose their confidence in their abilities. Pistons> any other team in the east for the last 5 years.

CLOSE THREAD.

They picked up a player halfway through their championship season that played the same position as the player they had just chosen with the #2 overall pick. That means they knew right off the bat that they had made a mistake.

And no way does Brown let Wade or Melo rot on the bench. They were ready to contribute immediately. Dark was nowhere near ready. I don't blame Brown at all for keeping Darko on the bench when he was in Detroit. It wasn't just Brown, either; Flip said that he was going to give Darko his big chance, then Darko was gone halfway through the season.

The Pistons maybe > the East the last 5 years, but they could have been >>>>>>>>>>>.

[himat]

The Pistons maybe > the East the last 5 years, but they could have been >>>>>>>>>>>.

Please be quiet even though you are right. Teal era coming right up.

[freedom&justice]

Please be quiet even though you are right. Teal era coming right up.

Noooooo!!!!!!! :cry :cry :cry :depressed :depressed

[dknights411]

Please be quiet even though you are right. Teal era coming right up.

Ouch. That's harsh.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Can't change the past

Kiki picked Skita instead of Amare :lol

Nene/Amare combo would be insane

[SpursIndonesia]

Yeah, Darko might never be able to pan out as a pick no2 supposed to be. But Skita over Amare ? I can certainly feel for Denver fans.

[himat]

Noooooo!!!!!!! :cry :cry :cry :depressed :depressed

I hope Joe won't allow that to happen. He can not stay put this time though. Changes must be made. Get a defensive coach here. I just can't watch another crappy Pistons defensive team. If CB gets resigned get a legit backup for him. If Sheed, Webber, and Dice stay don't play them a lot until the playoffs. Let Amir and J Max develop. Tayshaun was done this series. He had no legs. Delfino must get more playing time next season.

Joe has to go out and reshape this team. I would prefer a defensive team. Screw run and gun.

[dirk4mvp]

Shoulda drafted J-Ho :smokin




or Wade, Melo, or Bosh

[MajorMike]

Please be quiet even though you are right. Teal era coming right up.


Altho I don't normally agree with Kerr, he was completely correct when he forecasted the end of an era and some major offseason changes awaiting the Pistons.

By the way... how's that Nazr signing working out for ya'll? You DO realize he's signed until 2011 with an annual 6 mil or so a year?

Billups has a player option for 6.8 mil. The other All Star PGs? Parker makes 10 mil next year. Arenas 11 mil. Kidd makes 19 mil. Nash makes 11 mil. Hinrich makes 11 mil. Hell Joe Johnson makes 13 mil and Jason Williams makes 8 mil. You don't think he's going to look for more cash? I hear the Lakers are about to shit a brick for a good PG.

McDyess has a player option for 6+ mil as well.

The other player signed until 2011 is Prince, as his stellar choke from this year. He gets 8 to 10 mil a year. Just think, Prince gets paid pretty much the same as Manu.

Don't worry, tho, you get to pay Sheed 26+ mil the next 2 years, and Delfino gets a couple mil next year, too.

[SpursIndonesia]

I can see Billups demanding a contract worth 90 mil/6 yrs at the minimum. He has been underpaid for quite some time, i don't think he's in charity mood in the upcoming contract negotiation.

[mavsfan1000]

I agree. What was Dumars thinking?

[SRJ]

By the way... how's that Nazr signing working out for ya'll? You DO realize he's signed until 2011 with an annual 6 mil or so a year?

:lol Goddamn...Nazr beats the Pistons when he's on their team!

After reading this thread, I'm sudddenly wondering why Dumars gets as much credit as he gets.

[mavsfan1000]

Joe Dumbass is more like it. I guess he is competing with Isiah Thomas on who can be the worst gm.

[ChumpDumper]

The Pistons had too much of a good thing -- big men -- and too little money. Choices had to be made.

[DarkReign]

Joe Dumbass is more like it. I guess he is competing with Isiah Thomas on who can be the worst gm.

If 5 straight ECFs, 2 Finals apperances and One championship is battling for the worst GM in league...

Nevermind.

Youre an idiot.

[JamStone]

Mike Dunleavey #3 ... ahead of Nene, Amare Stoudemire, Caron Butler

Kwame Brown #1 ... ahead of Pau Gasol, Jason Richardson, Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson

Jonathan Bender #5 ... ahead of Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion

Michael Olowokandi #1 ... ahead of Mike Bibby, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce

Keith Van Horn #2 ... ahead of Chauncey Billups, Tracy McGrady

Shareef Abdur-Rahim #3 ... ahead of Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Jermaine O'Neal

Joe Smith #1 ... ahead of McDyess, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett

Shawn Bradley #2 ... ahead of Penny, Jamal Mashburn




You're right. But, it's the draft. Mistakes happen, even high in the lottery. Dumars made a big mistake. Can't do anything about it now. The Pistons don't have Wade or Melo or Bosh. Ok and? They cannot do anything about it now. The topic has been beaten to death. It was a mistake. WE KNOW!

[MajorMike]

Wow... had a little time to think about that one, have we?

[monosylab1k]

The Darko pick was a huge mistake, but overall Dumars has done far more good than bad. I'd take him as GM of my team any day.

[Magic_Johnson]

Shoulda drafted J-Ho :smokin




or Wade, Melo, or Bosh


or boris diaw

[hater]

Flip caused Pistons demise

[ambchang]

Not to say taking Darko over Melo, Bosh, Wade and Hinrich was the right choice, but back during the draft, it wasn't really too bad an idea.
Pistons were already a very good team then, and can afford to draft a player that had enormous potential. Believe it or not, Darko did. He is 7' tall, can handle the ball, can shoot from outside, can score from inside, and got long arms and timing to block shots and rebound. On potential alone, Darko > Bosh.
The Pistons team was also not built to have one dominant scorer. As you can see with the departure of Stackhouse, and having Rip replace him. The vision was to have a balanced scoring team, besides, Prince already got SF covered; thus Darko > Melo.
Wade was NOWHERE near the radar screen of superstardom. He had no shot, and was seen as too small for a SG.
Darko was a calculated risk back then, and it didn't work out.
On the other hand, I doubt Wade would blossom into his current status with the Pistons, and that Melo would get the greenlight everytime down the court.

[bdubya]

"Pistons' Demise?"

Another trip to the conference finals, another season with the #1 seed....yes, it's disappointing, but "Pistons' Demise"? Get yer head out yer ass, Brad.

[Findog]

U mad Pistons fans?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/247/522680424_c519b5b5bd_o.jpg

Just to save you the reply:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/220/507127712_9e0d89517a_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/510382248_b91d9de6c2_o.jpg

Putting this together really comes in handy sometimes:

http://flickr.com/photos/fashionable_male/sets/72157600237264094/

[monosylab1k]

You should find a picture of Prince ducking for cover as Lebron comes flying in for the dunk.

[Findog]

You should find a picture of Prince ducking for cover as Lebron comes flying in for the dunk.

This is the final basket in overtime FTW:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/221/524955475_020a539e05_o.jpg

[BradLohaus]

"Pistons' Demise?"

Another trip to the conference finals, another season with the #1 seed

they play in the east

....yes, it's disappointing, but "Pistons' Demise"? Get yer head out yer ass, Brad.

Have you not read the national media's take on the Pistons the last couple of days? It's not like I'm the only person claiming that the Piston's window is closed. Detroit just got outplayed by the Cavs for about 90% of the series. How are the Pistons going to get any better any time soon? They're going to have to overpay just to keep Billups.


Prince got SF down...Darko was a calculated risk back then, and it didn't work out.

Melo was no risk and could have played right away. Why gamble on a project at the #2 spot when you just made it to the conference finals? So what if you already have a SF? When you're already good you pick the guy who is already the best player available and you play him right away.

Detroit went out and got Rasheed during Darko's rookie year! It didn't even take them a year to figure out that Darko wasn't going to work out as expected. And if they would have done the sane thing and picked Melo, they could have moved Prince in a deal for Rasheed and had 5 All-Stars starting.

You guys aren't being hard enough on Dumars for this. Plenty of people were saying that the Pistons should pick Anthony in 2003 because he was a sure thing and the Pistons were already very good. Dumars made some great moves to build the team, but this was a major fuck up.

[Marklar MM]

If the Spurs could have gotten Rasheed Wallace to play alongside Tim Duncan for a pile of bricks like Detroit did, I think they would have done the deal as well. We traded unneeded bench players for a top 10 power forward (when he wants to be).

[sprrs]

If the Spurs could have gotten Rasheed Wallace to play alongside Tim Duncan for a pile of bricks like Detroit did, I think they would have done the deal as well. We traded unneeded bench players for a top 10 power forward (when he wants to be).

Exactly the point. Go for the best talent you can find. It's not like it was Melo then Darko right next to him talent wise in the draft. Melo had already proven he had the talent, where Darko just had the potential. At the very least they could have traded him for someone else if he didn't work out because they were so stacked at the SF position.

Just like in the summer of '03 when the Spurs went after Kidd even though we had Parker on the rise. You go for the best talent out there.

[ArgSpursFan]

They didn´t need a SG or SF at the time,and still dont need them.They´ve got great players on those positions(Prince and Hamilton)That´s why they passed on them and picked Milicic.to be Honest Milicic is a jek of a player who needs more playing time.Milicic not playing at all and leaving Detroit was L.Brown fault,Not Dumars.

[ATRAIN]

Mike Dunleavey #3 ... ahead of Nene, Amare Stoudemire, Caron Butler

Kwame Brown #1 ... ahead of Pau Gasol, Jason Richardson, Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson

Jonathan Bender #5 ... ahead of Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion

Michael Olowokandi #1 ... ahead of Mike Bibby, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce

Keith Van Horn #2 ... ahead of Chauncey Billups, Tracy McGrady

Shareef Abdur-Rahim #3 ... ahead of Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Jermaine O'Neal

Joe Smith #1 ... ahead of McDyess, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett

Shawn Bradley #2 ... ahead of Penny, Jamal Mashburn




You're right. But, it's the draft. Mistakes happen, even high in the lottery. Dumars made a big mistake. Can't do anything about it now. The Pistons don't have Wade or Melo or Bosh. Ok and? They cannot do anything about it now. The topic has been beaten to death. It was a mistake. WE KNOW!


Yeah what if suck....no reason to talk about it even now.

[sickdsm]

Flip's two season's have been two dissapointing playoff runs.


Flip's teams, whatever city that may be, could go undefeated in the reg. season and i'd bet the farm against them in the postseason.


Not to mention they got bailed out this year by picking up Webber.

[freedom&justice]

Flip's two season's have been two dissapointing playoff runs.


Flip's teams, whatever city that may be, could go undefeated in the reg. season and i'd bet the farm against them in the postseason.


Not to mention they got bailed out this year by picking up Webber.

I think Flip just dirks in the playoffs. He's not necessarily a bad coach, but when the playoffs roll around, it's like he gets so scared of losing he plays his starters until their legs fall off. I mean, he keeps at least one or two of his starters in the game with a 20 point lead! :bang

the Webber signing was fool's gold. He was great in the first month or so of the regular season, then the first round of the playoffs. After that, he was the invisible starter.

[bdubya]

Have you not read the national media's take on the Pistons the last couple of days? It's not like I'm the only person claiming that the Piston's window is closed. Detroit just got outplayed by the Cavs for about 90% of the series.

I've read the national media's take in the days immediately after the ECF upset. I also read the national media's take last summer on the dawning DWAYNE WADE ERA!! And their take this spring on the unstoppable force out of Dallas. So I don't feel too terribly stressed about the national media's current take on the Pistons.



How are the Pistons going to get any better any time soon? They're going to have to overpay just to keep Billups.


Yah. And if we had Melo at $16mil/year instead of Tayshaun, we'd have nowhere to go but up? (and probly be working on a back-to-back this June instead of cleaning bluegills?)





Melo was no risk and could have played right away. Why gamble on a project at the #2 spot when you just made it to the conference finals?


Why gamble on a kid fresh out of high school? LeBron was a bigger risk than Carmelo. He was a no-brainer #1 because he had so much more potential than Melo, but he still could have been the next Kwame Brown. And if you're already at the top of your conference, isn't that the time to gamble on a project for the future rather than go for a minor upgrade to one of the pieces that got you where you are?



Detroit went out and got Rasheed during Darko's rookie year! It didn't even take them a year to figure out that Darko wasn't going to work out as expected.

I don't think anybody expected him to be an NBA center at the age of 18. He had a lot of potential which didn't pan out. Definitely a waste of a pick, but the idea that our future today would be so much brighter if we only had Carmelo is pretty damn silly.

[Taco]

Larry Brown loves the big man, hell he drafted Dwayne Schintzius didn't he

[BradLohaus]

And if we had Melo at $16mil/year instead of Tayshaun, we'd have nowhere to go but up?

If you had Melo and his nearly 30 ppg instead of Tayshaun you'd already be up. And here are their salaries:

06-07) Prince - 7.8M Melo - 4.7M
07-08) 8.7 12.5
08-09) 9.5 13.8
09-10) 10.3 15.1
10-11) 11.1 16.4

And Melo has a player option for 11-12 for 17.7M So if the Pistons had Melo instead of Tayshaun, the difference in salaries would mean that you most likely wouldn't have signed Nazr to a 5 year contract averaging 6M per year; what a bonus!


Why gamble on a kid fresh out of high school? LeBron was a bigger risk than Carmelo. He was a no-brainer #1 because he had so much more potential than Melo, but he still could have been the next Kwame Brown.

Lebron was the 5th can't miss #1 pick of the lottery era, after Ewing, Robinson, Shaq and Duncan. And just like those 4 players, there was nothing at risk with Lebron.


And if you're already at the top of your conference, isn't that the time to gamble on a project for the future rather than go for a minor upgrade to one of the pieces that got you where you are?

No. If you just won a title, then maybe. But when you just lost in the conference finals, that is the perfect time to to go for a guaranteed, immediate upgrade. And Melo is a major upgrade over Prince.


I don't think anybody expected him to be an NBA center at the age of 18.

Which is exactly why you don't pick him when you're in Detroit's position at the time and you take the guaranteed upgrade and almost certain future all-star.


Definitely a waste of a pick, but the idea that our future today would be so much brighter if we only had Carmelo is pretty damn silly.

Your future wouldn't be brighter with one of the best scorers in the league who just turned 23? Of course it would be.

The Spurs made a mistake that year as well by passing on Josh Howard. You could argue that that cost us the title last year, if for no other reason then Dallas wouldn't have had their 2nd best player. It's just not as obvious because every team passed on Howard but Dallas.

[EastsBeasts]

This is for all the Prince haters, you've seen it before but just to refresh your memory---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JosJ2FM7Og

:elephant