what they should have learned

[td4mvp3]

so the spurs lost twice in the reg season to the cavs. what should they have grasped from those defeats to help them now?

[makedamnsure]

it's a completely different team from the one they played in the regular season. Regular season means NOTHING. I swear we've been through this. Both teams are different.

[L.I.T]

That's asinine. You can't evaluate a team in a vacuum.

I didn't realize that the Cavs and Spurs changed their rosters, coaches and systems since the beginning of the playoffs. Could've fooled me. Looked like the same people to me.

How are they definably different? Oh right, they're playing better! Silly me, I guess that means that they aren't running the exact same sets or playing the same style of defense. Guess that means that studying tape for trends and preferences is an absolutely pointless exercise.

Teams should fire their scouts and dismantle the archives and tape departments, because you know...they're pointless and unnecessary. Lets just throw the damn ball up and see what happens, screw gameplanning.

[boutons_]

Cavs beat the Spurs 2nd game of the season, and then again in early Jan where LOTS of teams beat the Spurs as the Spurs went through as streak of 13-12, the worst Spurs streak I've seen since at least 2002.

Combining that with the veteran Spurs perennial, reliable stepping it up in the playoffs, it's totally useless to extrapolate from the season games to Finals.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That's asinine. You can't evaluate a team in a vacuum.

I didn't realize that the Cavs and Spurs changed their rosters, coaches and systems since the beginning of the playoffs. Could've fooled me. Looked like the same people to me.

How are they definably different? Oh right, they're playing better! Silly me, I guess that means that they aren't running the exact same sets or playing the same style of defense. Guess that means that studying tape for trends and preferences is an absolutely pointless exercise.

Teams should fire their scouts and dismantle the archives and tape departments, because you know...they're pointless and unnecessary. Lets just throw the damn ball up and see what happens, screw gameplanning.

You're a retard if you think the Spurs defense in November and January was anywhere near the level it is now. Spurs don't start tightening the defense up until after the All Star break.

Quit being such a twelve year old.

[FromWayDowntown]

That's asinine. You can't evaluate a team in a vacuum.

I didn't realize that the Cavs and Spurs changed their rosters, coaches and systems since the beginning of the playoffs. Could've fooled me. Looked like the same people to me.

How are they definably different? Oh right, they're playing better! Silly me, I guess that means that they aren't running the exact same sets or playing the same style of defense. Guess that means that studying tape for trends and preferences is an absolutely pointless exercise.

Teams should fire their scouts and dismantle the archives and tape departments, because you know...they're pointless and unnecessary. Lets just throw the damn ball up and see what happens, screw gameplanning.

Well, let's put it this way: in the first game between the teams this season, Eric Snow started and played 25 minutes; Damon Jones played 24 minutes; David Wesley played 13 minutes; and Sasha Pavlovic and Daniel Gibson combined to play 1 minute. For the Spurs, Beno Udrih played 13 minutes that night and got off 7 shots.

In the January 2 game at Cleveland, Eric Snow started and played 33 minutes, Damon Jones played 21 minutes, Pavlovic and Gibson combined to play 14 minutes, going a combined 1-4 from the field (1-2 from 3) and scoring 4 points. For the Spurs, Horry started and played 24 minutes, Oberto played 11 minutes, and Finley played only 8:07.

To say that these teams aren't definably different in terms of the way in which they use their personnel is ridiculous. Damon Jones averaged 22.5 mpg against the Spurs this season, but hasn't played more than 21 minutes in any game since January 26, 2007. He's played 20+ minutes in exactly one playoff game.

Likewise, Eric Snow started twice and averaged 29 minutes per game. During the playoffs, Snow has played as many as 20 minutes in only 3 games and never more than 22 minutes -- in fact, he's played a total of 16 minutes in the Cavs' last 4 games.

Meanwhile, Pavlovic and Gibson combined to play less than 15 minutes in the 2 regular season games between the Spurs and Cavs and combined to shoot 1-5 from the floor, totaling an aggregate of 4 points. In these playoffs, Gibson alone is averaging 16 minutes per game while Pavlovic has started every game and gets 30 minutes per night.

The Cavs' faces haven't changed, but the manner in which those faces are used is hardly the same.

For the Spurs, Beno averaged 13 mpg against Cleveland this year -- unless there is some catostrophic injury or some monumental blowout, I'd be surprised if Beno gets 13 total minutes in the Finals. Bonner played 23 minutes in the second game, while Horry started and played 24 minutes, Oberto played 11 minutes, and Finley played only 8 minutes. I suspect that those numbers will be very different in the Finals, too. Again, the faces are the same, but the manner in which they are used isn't.

[Corn on the Colb]

FromWayDowntown, you're completely right, each team is much different now.

But I'd be very surprised if Beno didn't get at least 30 garbage time minutes total. You guys should be beatin' that Cleveland ass right quick.

[djohn14]

I love both teams. There my 2 favorite teams. Here is what I think will happen. I think we will win only because we have been here before. We don't know how LeBron will react. Gibson is gonna hit 3's. Finley has to keep up with him. Hughes, being a bigger PG, will bother Tony. Tony does have the speed to get around him, but the Cavs have the "floppers" inside. Duncan might have some trouble with Anderson on him, and when Z gets on him, that might take away the hook, because of the longer arms. I feel we can win IF Finley can exchange 3's with Gibson. If that happens, then our experience will lead us to the trophey!!!

[L.I.T]

You're a retard if you think the Spurs defense in November and January was anywhere near the level it is now. Spurs don't start tightening the defense up until after the All Star break.

Quit being such a twelve year old.

I'm not using the outcome to predict what happens during the series, what I was sarcastically trying to get across is that elements of the games are important and should not be discarded out of hand. Players may be different, or being played more or less minutes, however system-wise and team-wide trends are still there. Those games are our best insight into the Cavs and how they will react to our team. I can guarantee that the Cavs are looking at any successes they had against us in those games, why shouldn't the obverse be true?

To play off of what FWD said: in those games the Spurs big 3 (plus Bowen) played at least 29 minutes in each game. The Cavs foursome of Lebron, Hughes, Ilgauskas and Gooden played at least 23 minutes in each game. I think those four players are again going to play heavy minutes against the Spurs, just a thought. Their front-line's play is going to be key in this series, how they match-up with the Spurs frontline is important.

In those two games our threesome played well (in the first one) and in the second Duncan and Manu had lousy games. Manu had 6 points (on 1 for 8), 6 rebounds and 3 assists in 29 minutes of play. If the Cavs are relying on him emulating that performance, then they are in serious trouble.

The Spurs defense held the Cavs to 14 points and 8 points below their season scoring average, their field goal percentages were 44.5% in the first game and 36% in the second game (versus 44.5% season FG%), in the first game they outrebounded us by 9, in the second we outrebounded them by 1.

So far, if what you are saying is true (which I happen to believe), that the Spurs defense is markedly better now than the second game, there are elements in this game that show that the Spurs defense will have success against the Cavs.

I don't see where trying get as much information as possible about an opponent is being a 12-year old. Those years hallmarks are usually a "laaalaaalaaa...I'm not listening" syndrome, something that a lot of posters here are exhibiting.

[L.I.T]

Well, let's put it this way: in the first game between the teams this season, ....

Point well-taken. However, the Cavs core (Lebron, Hughes, Ilgauskas, Gooden and Varejao) all played heavy minutes. How those players reacted and handled the Spurs would probably give us some insight into how the Spurs should play them in this series. Especially their front-line. We already know that Cavs are an extremely good rebounding team, however in the last game we out-rebounded them...against the same front-court players.

Again, I'm not saying that the final score is indicative of how the series will turn out. Nor that these two games are the end-all and be-all of what should be evaluated. What I am saying is that no source of information on an opponent should be discarded. The coaches and system are still in place, different faces maybe in different roles, but the team-wide defensive and offensive concepts probably haven't changed.