Was Tim Duncan Traded?

[sheriee84]

Since the Cavs got into the Finals all I've heard is how Cleveland has the best player in the NBA...
Lebron James is good, but TD is, by far, the best player in the NBA. The thing people don't appreciate about Tim is that he is unselfish... He doesn't care what he scores as long as his team comes out on top. He can score 30+ points a game, but no one would notice because he isn't flashy. Lebron seems to be haughty and thinks he can do it all by himself... But he is in for a rude awakening when he finds out that a team can beat a single player any day.

[dbreiden83080]

Because people don't know what to look for anymore in the NBA. They see a guy in James who can dominate on offense and they say wow he is the best player in the league. What they don't understand is Duncan can get double and triple teamed and find the open man while at the same time playing great D and rebounding all night long. If James is not shooting or finding his teamates he is pretty much useless because he is not a big factor on the defensive end. Tim is the anchor of the Spurs D and any educated fan knows he is still the best all around player in the NBA.

[TDMVPDPOY]

wtf is tim duncan anyway?

does he play for the spurs? you talkin about tottenham hotspurs yeh :D:D

[sheriee84]

I agree.... everyone wants a flashy offensive player, because they are the ones who get the commercial deals and bring in ratings for ESPN... Duncan isn't flashy and he concentrate on defense more than offense. Unfortunately there aren't many people who ARE educated enough to realize this

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Since the Cavs got into the Finals all I've heard is how Cleveland has the best player in the NBA...
Lebron James is good, but TD is, by far, the best player in the NBA. The thing people don't appreciate about Tim is that he is unselfish... He doesn't care what he scores as long as his team comes out on top. He can score 30+ points a game, but no one would notice because he isn't flashy. Lebron seems to be haughty and thinks he can do it all by himself... But he is in for a rude awakening when he finds out that a team can beat a single player any day.

Dont confuse Lebron with his fans. While they may make stupid commentary James really shows some class. For a guy that has pretty much had anything anyone could ever ask for come to him from the age of 18 and on he shows an immense amount of humility.

[spursjustice]

Lebron may be king but Duncan is God... ok... that's a little too much... but he's easily better than Lebron...

[sheriee84]

Humilitty??? He's told his team that HE would win it for them... that sounds pretty darn haughty to me...

[sheriee84]

Did his comment not sound just a LITTLE cocky to anyone else???

[sheriee84]

This post isn't really about Lebron though... I just think Tim should get the credit he deserves.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Humilitty??? He's told his team that HE would win it for them... that sounds pretty darn haughty to me...

Hes talking to his teammates and he did win it for them. Hes the best palayer on their team; whats he supposed to say? "Don't count on me. I'll just choke."

Its how he acts when hes talking to other teams and the media that he stands out. Someone had a quote from him earlier where he gave a ton of props to Tim and said he was no Tim Duncan.

Compared him to say kobe or carmelo and its night and day.

[sheriee84]

I don't think he ever disrespected tim or anyone else.... I just think that he thinks he can do everything himself, and that he is the only one on his team worth anything.... If tim thought that way and said something like that to his teammates, Manu and Tony and Bowen wouldn't be what they are now. But, tim has always been a team player, and knows he can'tt win by himself.

[TDMVPDPOY]

tim duncan doesnt have to prove shit, since he has been there, done that

he came, he saw, he conquered.

yeh thats right a battle of david and goliath.

in this situation duncan>tim>lebronze

duncan = playoff mode
tim = regular season mode
cruise mode is a biatch

[Summers]

Dont confuse Lebron with his fans. While they may make stupid commentary James really shows some class. For a guy that has pretty much had anything anyone could ever ask for come to him from the age of 18 and on he shows an immense amount of humility.

I'll go so far as to say he hasn't been completely cocky and arrogant about it, but he's hardly been humble. Much props to LeBron--he's an amazing player and seems cool and funny and all that, but I can't help but wonder if his teammates get tired of his being the center of the universe.

[Rummpd]

Mike Wise in Washington Post had article today = Duncan best player in finals and by far!

[Summers]

In fact, I'm probably the most humble person in the nba.

:lol

Doesn't he have "Chosen One" tattooed across his back?

[BWJACKETS]

Not sure how you can say that Duncan is better than Lebron when Duncan has all the help that he does and Lebron still does much more with what he does have. If LBJ had Parker and Ginobli to play alongside he would be averaging a triple-double, the fact of the matter is Duncan can only play his unselfish style of basketball, which isn't a bad thing, however Lebron can play that same style of basketball OR pick up the tempo and be the dynamic scorer. Lebron can play either of those styles of basketball, Duncan can only play one...and Duncan has much more help offensively than Lebron has so he doesn't deal with the same kind of doubles (and triples) that Lebron does. Duncan might get triple-teamed two or three times in a game , Lebron periodically is triple-teamed for entire quarters at a time.

It is a tough comparison to make, I am not willing to say that Duncan is better than Lebron or Lebron is better than Duncan. I hear what you guys are saying that Duncan is so consistant because of his unselfishness and talent and skills, but Lebron is every bit as good of a player and I would argue is MUCH more dangerous than Duncan is. Lebron can do it all as well.

[easjer]

I think the fact that LeBron does work so hard to get his teammates involved and is generally willing to step up and take blame and push other people forward for praise is a big thing, especially in such a young kid. I'm not going to say he's the most humble player in the NBA - he's definitely got a high evaluation of his own talents - but he tries. And I think that says a lot about him and I think it's the right attitude.

It's at least far enough away from the Jordan or Kobe attitude to make me marvel at him.

Regardless, Duncan is perfectly happy to be out of the spotlight - I think he prefers it. He'll be very happy to have the light shine on LeBron until he's holding up the trophies, I think.

[easjer]

Not sure how you can say that Duncan is better than Lebron when Duncan has all the help that he does and Lebron still does much more with what he does have. If LBJ had Parker and Ginobli to play alongside he would be averaging a triple-double, the fact of the matter is Duncan can only play his unselfish style of basketball, which isn't a bad thing, however Lebron can play that same style of basketball OR pick up the tempo and be the dynamic scorer. Lebron can play either of those styles of basketball, Duncan can only play one...and Duncan has much more help offensively than Lebron has so he doesn't deal with the same kind of doubles (and triples) that Lebron does. Duncan might get triple-teamed two or three times in a game , Lebron periodically is triple-teamed for entire quarters at a time.

It is a tough comparison to make, I am not willing to say that Duncan is better than Lebron or Lebron is better than Duncan. I hear what you guys are saying that Duncan is so consistant because of his unselfishness and talent and skills, but Lebron is every bit as good of a player and I would argue is MUCH more dangerous than Duncan is. Lebron can do it all as well.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69939

The above post from yesterday is how you can say Tim Duncan is better than LeBron James. Perhaps in 10 years time, when LeBron has had more success and a better supporting cast things may be different. But it's not just about team wins/championships - those are individual statistics.

No one (except Ducks a few others) are denying that LeBron is a talented, gifted basketball player. But people are already, well before the end of his career, talking about Tim Duncan as one of the best players in his position ever, and among one of the best basketball players of all time. Lots of people like to think (with good reason) that LeBron might get there, but Timmy is there.

You may not get to watch him much, so you may not realize . . . there is certainly something to be discounted from his fanbase. He himself is not one to parade it about and it rarely gets mentioned because he himself is so quiet and unassuming. But look at the stats, read that post. It tells the tale.

Additionally, Duncan is ENTIRELY capable of taking over a game. He most certainly CAN be a scorer. I think that it is all the more impressive for him to have accumulated the stats he has given that he does generally play such an unselfish style of basketball and does have the supporting cast he has.

Because LeBron does not have that cast, it is not possible to say whether or not he will develop the ability to know when to flip the switch back and forth and be able to do it easily and gracefully. It's not something that Jordan or Kobe ever mastered imo. It certainly seems LeBron might be more capable than either of them because he has a team mentality that they lacked - but that can go too far in the other direction to the point of stifling his natural talents. It's another reason that it's fruitless to try and compare - with LeBron it's speculation, with Duncan, it is.

[mabber]

This post isn't really about Lebron though... I just think Tim should get the credit he deserves.

How much more credit do you want Duncan to get??? He gets plenty of credit for being one of the top players in the league and having 3 rings (soon 4). The NBA is just trying to make money. It's an easy call to promote LeBron over Duncan just cuz of their style of play. It has nothing to do with credit :rolleyes It's all about MONEY!!! The NBA is trying to reel in the casual fan who doesn't follow the NBA year around like most of us do.

[BWJACKETS]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69939

The above post from yesterday is how you can say Tim Duncan is better than LeBron James. Perhaps in 10 years time, when LeBron has had more success and a better supporting cast things may be different. But it's not just about team wins/championships - those are individual statistics.

No one (except Ducks a few others) are denying that LeBron is a talented, gifted basketball player. But people are already, well before the end of his career, talking about Tim Duncan as one of the best players in his position ever, and among one of the best basketball players of all time. Lots of people like to think (with good reason) that LeBron might get there, but Timmy is there.

You may not get to watch him much, so you may not realize . . . there is certainly something to be discounted from his fanbase. He himself is not one to parade it about and it rarely gets mentioned because he himself is so quiet and unassuming. But look at the stats, read that post. It tells the tale.

I've gotten to see Duncan play, and yes, he is very good, but I would not say for a second he is better than Lebron. Strictly based on talent/skill and what each guy does on the court, you cannot say for sure who is better. You are simply trying to fill in the blank by saying "Duncan has been around longer, therefore he must be better," and it just kind of seems like you have thrown your own bias into the equation for good measure.

[sandman]

LeBron is an amazingly gifted player who took some major steps in his level of play this post season. He is a generally likable guy and does display a respect for the history of the game and for his peers.

Some of his fans on the other hand...

[implacable44]

Not sure how you can say that Duncan is better than Lebron when Duncan has all the help that he does and Lebron still does much more with what he does have. If LBJ had Parker and Ginobli to play alongside he would be averaging a triple-double, the fact of the matter is Duncan can only play his unselfish style of basketball, which isn't a bad thing, however Lebron can play that same style of basketball OR pick up the tempo and be the dynamic scorer. Lebron can play either of those styles of basketball, Duncan can only play one...and Duncan has much more help offensively than Lebron has so he doesn't deal with the same kind of doubles (and triples) that Lebron does. Duncan might get triple-teamed two or three times in a game , Lebron periodically is triple-teamed for entire quarters at a time.

It is a tough comparison to make, I am not willing to say that Duncan is better than Lebron or Lebron is better than Duncan. I hear what you guys are saying that Duncan is so consistant because of his unselfishness and talent and skills, but Lebron is every bit as good of a player and I would argue is MUCH more dangerous than Duncan is. Lebron can do it all as well.

Duncan can score at will and has proven that fact many times. See the WCF last year when he just dominated the Mavs on one foot. As far as double or triple teams - Duncan sees them all the time -- it is actually easier to double or triple TD because of the spots where he gets the ball. It is more difficult to run at Lebron because he typically gets isolated at the top or on the wing. ( I Think the Pistons didn't double him hardly at all the first 4 games until he burned them in game 5 right ?)..

I am not sure what "talent" you are talking about that surrounds Duncan either. I mean you got the Big Z, two hustle players in Crazy Spice and Gooden who clean up the boards forhis highness -- Damon JOnes and Gibson who must be "great" because that is all I have read lately is how "great" he is and how Cleveland knew he was "great" when they drafted him. There is Donyell Marshall who has always been a quality player in the L and of course Larry Hughes who was good for 21 ppg with Washington - incidentally he comes to Cleveland and can't get 13 per...Did Lebron make him better or worse?

The Spurs are the oldest team in the league with the most predictable offense since Stockton to Malone....They have a PG that is a shoot first and dominate the ball dribbler name PArker - Manu who is erratic and a flopper - Bowen who is one dimensional and virtually u seless in this series because he cannot hold Lebron. Fransisco Elson at center and a pump faking - fade-a-way shooting 2 guard in Finley who plays no D. LEts not forget about Horry who can give you 15 minutes every other night and has been reduced from big shot bob to designated thug according to most - Bones who registers as many DNP's as he does good games... Jaque Vaughn who is most famous for being clowned on Sportscenter for not scoring in some 20 or so straight games ....Fabio and some red headed dude who comes in for a minute or so every now and then.

How do the Spurs have a better roster? This is contrary to everything Cavs fan has said lately on this board.

Best player in the world is debatable - Some would say TD - some Lebron and most would say Kobe.

At the end of the day Lebron is a beast - just as much as Shaq is. You are not supposed to be a very quick 6'8" - 240 with handles - a jumper, court vision AND HOPS? He is a physical beast - too strong for anybody that guards him and too quick for most. He is the perimeter Shaq. Shaq got swept his first finals though.....

[reddog 99]

Apparently so and we now have an impostor on our roster!


NBA.com current vote tallies? :lol :lol


Who will win MVP of the 2007 NBA Finals?
LeBron James

60%

Tim Duncan

29%

Manu Ginobili

5%

Daniel Gibson

3%

Tony Parker

3%

[sandman]

I've gotten to see Duncan play, and yes, he is very good, but I would not say for a second he is better than Lebron. Strictly based on talent/skill and what each guy does on the court, you cannot say for sure who is better. You are simply trying to fill in the blank by saying "Duncan has been around longer, therefore he must be better," and it just kind of seems like you have thrown your own bias into the equation for good measure.

It is tough to compare each of their bodies of work when they are still playing. IMO, some are saying that right now today Duncan would be considered the better player because he has proven himself at every level (Titles, MVP's, All-NBA) for a decade. At some point LeBron may surpass those accomplishments in his career, but he has not at this point. Arguing about whether someone is a superior player cannot be based on potential. In their respective current bodies of work, Tim is the better player. The conversation may very well be different in 10 years as LeBron is a great player with great potential. But right here, right now, the nod has to go to Tim.

[MadDog73]

How much more credit do you want Duncan to get??? He gets plenty of credit for being one of the top players in the league and having 3 rings (soon 4). The NBA is just trying to make money. It's an easy call to promote LeBron over Duncan just cuz of their style of play. It has nothing to do with credit :rolleyes It's all about MONEY!!! The NBA is trying to reel in the casual fan who doesn't follow the NBA year around like most of us do.


The problem with this line of thinking is: what happens when Lebron (or another superstar), is not in the playoffs. The casual fan thinks Duncan is boring. It's not being a homer saying this is a bad idea in general for the NBA, it's just being observant.

Ask yourself this question: If the league had been promoting Tim like Lebron since 1999, do you the ratings would be so bad?

Look, I have no problem with Lebron, and as a basketball fan, I'm glad he'll be in the Finals so the ratings will be high.

But, I have to say, the NBA misses great opportunities for marketing. ie, 2003, they could have gone into great detail into David Robinson and his story during the Finals. They didn't. Instead, they decided to review summer movies during halftime (no joke!).

In short, the current NBA ratings slump was in part created by the NBA by hyping teams and players that very rarely make it to the Finals.

[Nathan Explosion]

Based on talent and skill, Lebron is a better player. However, being the most talented doesn't not equal being the best player.

Duncan affects the game on both ends of the court. Make no mistaken, the offense starts with Duncan in the middle quarterbacking the offense. On defense, it's the same thing. Duncan gets everyone into position, and Duncan calls out the screens, doubles, and rotations if need be. He's the coach on the court basically, helping his teammates succeed through leadership and communication.

Not to mention he can score at will and lockdown his defender and the painted area in particular.

And he has a pretty high basketball IQ.

Of course, no one knows these things.

As for Lebron having humility, that's not always true. He has a respect for the game, and you have to give him credit for that. And he can be humble about his situation. But he did go on ESPN and say that his goal was to be a global icon. Not a champion. Not a great teammate. Not the best player ever. He wanted to be a global icon. Sorry, but that doesn't sound humble to me.

[BWJACKETS]

The problem with this line of thinking is: what happens when Lebron (or another superstar), is not in the playoffs. The casual fan thinks Duncan is boring. It's not being a homer saying this is a bad idea in general for the NBA, it's just being observant.

Ask yourself this question: If the league had been promoting Tim like Lebron since 1999, do you the ratings would be so bad?

Look, I have no problem with Lebron, and as a basketball fan, I'm glad he'll be in the Finals so the ratings will be high.

But, I have to say, the NBA misses great opportunities for marketing. ie, 2003, they could have gone into great detail into David Robinson and his story during the Finals. They didn't. Instead, they decided to review summer movies during halftime (no joke!).

In short, the current NBA ratings slump was in part created by the NBA by hyping teams and players that very rarely make it to the Finals.

I don't think Duncan is boring, he is a very good player, one of the best in the league, and based on past seasons as well, as Spurs fans will remind you he is statistically one of the best at his position of all-time. However, to say that that makes him better than Lebron right now is just crazy. Both are great players but to say that one is definitively better than the other is just stupid.

On a side note, Duncan gets as much credit as anybody when it comes to the media. Maybe you wish Timmy would get more credit from the fans, but I think people just don't like him, period- the fact that he acted like a complete fool with that situation with the Joey Crawford, and the fact that he is playing for a "dirty" team haven't helped his cause.

[implacable44]

A Dirty team ? That is as tired as the asteriK or asteriX --Asterisk arguement. Crazy spice broke some dudes jaw and you want to call the Spurs dirty ?

[easjer]

I don't think Duncan is boring, he is a very good player, one of the best in the league, and based on past seasons as well, as Spurs fans will remind you he is statistically one of the best at his position of all-time. However, to say that that makes him better than Lebron right now is just crazy. Both are great players but to say that one is definitively better than the other is just stupid.

On a side note, Duncan gets as much credit as anybody when it comes to the media. Maybe you wish Timmy would get more credit from the fans, but I think people just don't like him, period- the fact that he acted like a complete fool with that situation with the Joey Crawford, and the fact that he is playing for a "dirty" team haven't helped his cause.


Media bias, as has been discussed to death and beyond.

And as for bias - how's this, as discussed in another thread.

LeBron is 22 and has brought his team to the Finals.

Tim Duncan did the same thing at 22, in half the time.

Tim Duncan's career at the same period as LeBron supports the idea of Duncan being a better player.

Will LeBron ultimately surpass Duncan? Very possibly - likely, even.

But you cannot, with intelligence or evidence, make the argument that LeBron is better than Duncan now, which is when the argument is being made. It doesn't work that way. You can privately believe he's better, but evidence will fail you. Do it anyway, that is the fan's job. I always, always believed Duncan was better than Shaq, with Shaq at his prime.

But at least don't pretend that I'm arguing with blinders on.

[implacable44]

TIm was 23 when he made it to the finals I think.

in a nutshell -- Lebron needs to play at this level over time. This is year #1 - Duncan has 10 such years. Lebron needs to put a few more together before he can be as good as Duncan. He could flame out a la Vince Carter - Mcgrady or he could keep going like Duncan. He could have an injury that changes his game and effectiveness - like Penny. What is he never develops a consistent jumper ?

[Nathan Explosion]

Duncan at this point in his career is a top 15 player of all time. When he's all done, he could jump into the top 10.

Lebron's a great talent, and still beginning his career, but to say he's better than Duncan is far fetched. Again, Duncan, greatest PF ever, and one of the greatest of all time. Lebron hasn't accomplished anything yet.

Lebron could pass Duncan up. He just hasn't done it yet.

[CubanMustGo]

Here is the Washington Post article mentioned earlier:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/04/AR2007060401937.html

Duncan's Exclusive Company

By Mike Wise
Tuesday, June 5, 2007; Page E01

Now that LeBron James has become ABC's savior of the NBA Finals -- and LeBron says he is honored to be compared to Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson and Gandhi -- we interrupt this homeroom crush for some genuine education.

The San Antonio Spurs are going to school Cleveland and win their fourth title, in six games or fewer, because they have the best player on the floor in the series. Tim Duncan, despite getting less love than jury duty, is maybe the largest difference-maker since Jordan. Shaquille O'Neal is the only other big man from Duncan's generation who's won more.

It's nice that LeBron has evolved so quickly, overtaking Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade from his draft class. But filling Kobe's excitement void from the playoffs is not the same as being on the verge of winning more titles than Larry Bird.

When the Spurs are finished polishing off Cleveland, Duncan will not only eclipse Bird's three rings, he will join Magic and Michael as the only leading men with more than three championships with the same franchise since Bill Russell. Four decades after Russell, Duncan would join a class of three.

When the Cavaliers' nice, little run is done, Duncan will be 4-0 in the Finals, leaving him two short of Michael's perfect 6-0 mark. And Duncan's team might have two more left in them after this season. Magic was 5-4 and Bird 3-2 on the game's grandest stage. Shaq is 4-2, has participated in six of the last 13 Finals and is the only player in league history to lead three different franchises to championship series.

But San Antonio winning will give Duncan as many titles as Shaq. Many observers believe this fact vaults Duncan past O'Neal as the greatest player of his generation. That might be a bit much, given that only two players in NBA history have better winning percentages than the teams O'Neal has played on: Magic and Bill Russell, considered the greatest winners of their respective eras.

But it would put Duncan on par with Shaq. Given that he has more tread on his tires left than the big fella, it's not hard to envision the 31-year-old Duncan leading the Spurs to at least two more Finals.

While Cleveland is deservedly being celebrated for slaying the Philistines from Detroit, Duncan led the Spurs out of a Western Conference very few believed they could navigate at the beginning of the season.

After Dallas beat them in Game 7 of the semifinals in San Antonio a year ago, the Spurs and their star were viewed as that old, creaky team spiraling downward. No way they were supposed to get by Phoenix when Amare Stoudemire was healthy. No way anyone would stand in Dallas's path to a title it should have won a year ago.

Before the playoffs began, the Spurs were generally thought of as no better than the third-best team in the West behind the Suns and Mavericks. Their style was thought of as too plodding and predictable to stay with Steve Nash and Shawn Marion and Jason Terry and Josh Howard in the open court.

The perception of Duncan mirrored his team; he was coming off a season in which his body was breaking down and there simply were too many quick, young big men to rise over.

As usual, his detractors missed the importance of Duncan. His game has never been about explosiveness; it's about efficiency. His degree of difficulty has nothing to do with hang time and more to do with angles and trajectory, all the skill-level amenities missing from contemporary front-court players.

Even his position -- a center-power forward hybrid -- prevents flat-out comparisons to other great pivots. Kevin McHale and Karl Malone are all-time greats on the blocks, but McHale played with Bird and Robert Parish in his prime, as did Malone with John Stockton. David Robinson was winding down when Duncan joined the Spurs.

Drama is at a premium for Duncan, too; he's had the same coach, Gregg Popovich, his entire career. Often expressionless and unemotional since his days at Wake Forest, where the Duke student section referred to him as "Spock," there is a monotony to the way Duncan plays and carries himself that doesn't resonate in a culture run by celebrity.

He gets penalized for consistently playing and living between the lines while so many of his look-at-me peers obliterate the boundaries and become more popular for it. Polarization sells; professionalism is so '90s.

That's how the guy who kept his head down, motored forward and did nothing but win and put up numbers -- while silencing the conversation about him and his team being too old -- is cast as the black hat next to the young, fresh gun in the NBA Finals. That's why Tim Duncan's journey to scaling Shaq as the most important player of his generation is nothing more than a subplot going in.

LeBron James reinvigorates the "Next Michael" debate after a sterling week of basketball. Meanwhile, if anyone wanted to look long and hard, Tim Duncan belongs at the top of that class more than Kobe, more than Dwyane Wade and certainly more than LeBron. More than any of them, he's won at a higher level.

[MadDog73]

Maybe you wish Timmy would get more credit from the fans, but I think people just don't like him, period-

No, if people hated Tim Duncan, like the way people hate Kobe and Shaq, then the Spurs would be drawing better ratings. Which is why many fans here embrace the "dirty" image: Being viewed as "dirty" (even if not true), is infinitely better than being "boring". (also not true).

I think most basketball fans are indifferent to Duncan and the Spurs. They just don't care, period.



the fact that he acted like a complete fool with that situation with the Joey Crawford, and the fact that he is playing for a "dirty" team haven't helped his cause.

Again, if that was the case, then ratings would be up, not down.

I don't want Duncan to be "loved" by opponent's fans. I want him to be hated and feared.

The last thing I want is for him to be ignored.

[sheriee84]

the fact that he acted like a complete fool with that situation with the Joey Crawford, and the fact that he is playing for a "dirty" team haven't helped his cause.
Duncan acted like a fool?! Crawford threw him out of the game for LAUGHING!!! That's like being mad because someone looked at you wrong... And Tim wasn't the one who committed the "dirty" foul, it was Horry... And IMO Steve Nash totally flopped on that foul... If horry had turned and helped him up no one would have said anything...

[mabber]

The problem with this line of thinking is: what happens when Lebron (or another superstar), is not in the playoffs. The casual fan thinks Duncan is boring. It's not being a homer saying this is a bad idea in general for the NBA, it's just being observant.

Ask yourself this question: If the league had been promoting Tim like Lebron since 1999, do you the ratings would be so bad?

Look, I have no problem with Lebron, and as a basketball fan, I'm glad he'll be in the Finals so the ratings will be high.

But, I have to say, the NBA misses great opportunities for marketing. ie, 2003, they could have gone into great detail into David Robinson and his story during the Finals. They didn't. Instead, they decided to review summer movies during halftime (no joke!).

In short, the current NBA ratings slump was in part created by the NBA by hyping teams and players that very rarely make it to the Finals.

I'm just explaining what the NBA is doing. From a "business" perspective it makes total sense to promote players like LeBron & Wade instead of Duncan. I'm not saying these guys are better than Duncan. There's just nothing exciting about Duncan's game to the "casual" fan. I enjoy the hell out of watching him play but I'm not the casual fan that the NBA is trying to get to watch.

[mabber]

No, if people hated Tim Duncan, like the way people hate Kobe and Shaq, then the Spurs would be drawing better ratings. Which is why many fans here embrace the "dirty" image: Being viewed as "dirty" (even if not true), is infinitely better than being "boring". (also not true).

I think most basketball fans are indifferent to Duncan and the Spurs. They just don't care, period.



Again, if that was the case, then ratings would be up, not down.

I don't want Duncan to be "loved" by opponent's fans. I want him to be hated and feared.

The last thing I want is for him to be ignored.

I totally agree.

[Nathan Explosion]

Duncan acted like a fool?! Crawford threw him out of the game for LAUGHING!!! That's like being mad because someone looked at you wrong... And Tim wasn't the one who committed the "dirty" foul, it was Horry... And IMO Steve Nash totally flopped on that foul... If horry had turned and helped him up no one would have said anything...

That's like this one girl at work calling in because she was mad at a coworker. It happened. Sad fact is we couldn't fire her because of particular disability rules and how they work.

[Mr. Body]

People who fail to appreciate Duncan are like the idiots who keep caring about Paris Hilton and the other junk in our culture. They're driving the rest of us down.

[sheriee84]

I go back to my original argument that everyone just wants a flashy offensive player... Not a solid all-around player, like duncan.

[thispego]

Duncan can score at will and has proven that fact many times. See the WCF last year when he just dominated the Mavs on one foot. As far as double or triple teams - Duncan sees them all the time -- it is actually easier to double or triple TD because of the spots where he gets the ball. It is more difficult to run at Lebron because he typically gets isolated at the top or on the wing. ( I Think the Pistons didn't double him hardly at all the first 4 games until he burned them in game 5 right ?)..

I am not sure what "talent" you are talking about that surrounds Duncan either. I mean you got the Big Z, two hustle players in Crazy Spice and Gooden who clean up the boards forhis highness -- Damon JOnes and Gibson who must be "great" because that is all I have read lately is how "great" he is and how Cleveland knew he was "great" when they drafted him. There is Donyell Marshall who has always been a quality player in the L and of course Larry Hughes who was good for 21 ppg with Washington - incidentally he comes to Cleveland and can't get 13 per...Did Lebron make him better or worse?

The Spurs are the oldest team in the league with the most predictable offense since Stockton to Malone....They have a PG that is a shoot first and dominate the ball dribbler name PArker - Manu who is erratic and a flopper - Bowen who is one dimensional and virtually u seless in this series because he cannot hold Lebron. Fransisco Elson at center and a pump faking - fade-a-way shooting 2 guard in Finley who plays no D. LEts not forget about Horry who can give you 15 minutes every other night and has been reduced from big shot bob to designated thug according to most - Bones who registers as many DNP's as he does good games... Jaque Vaughn who is most famous for being clowned on Sportscenter for not scoring in some 20 or so straight games ....Fabio and some red headed dude who comes in for a minute or so every now and then.

How do the Spurs have a better roster? This is contrary to everything Cavs fan has said lately on this board.

Best player in the world is debatable - Some would say TD - some Lebron and most would say Kobe.

At the end of the day Lebron is a beast - just as much as Shaq is. You are not supposed to be a very quick 6'8" - 240 with handles - a jumper, court vision AND HOPS? He is a physical beast - too strong for anybody that guards him and too quick for most. He is the perimeter Shaq. Shaq got swept his first finals though.....
good post. :tu what say you, cavs fans?

[Ocotillo]

Are the Cavs making the trip or is LeBron going to play the Spurs himself?

[mardigan]

Not sure how you can say that Duncan is better than Lebron when Duncan has all the help that he does and Lebron still does much more with what he does have.
You dont think Duncan's greatness had anything to do with Tony (a late 1st round pick) and Manu (almost the last pick in the 2nd round) becoming the players that they are? Your constant disrespect for Tim is grating on my nerves

[duncan228]

You dont think Duncan's greatness had anything to do with Tony (a late 1st round pick) and Manu (almost the last pick in the 2nd round) becoming the players that they are? Your constant disrespect for Tim is grating on my nerves

And mine.
And it's disrespect for the entire team. And coaching staff.

[sheriee84]

You dont think Duncan's greatness had anything to do with Tony (a late 1st round pick) and Manu (almost the last pick in the 2nd round) becoming the players that they are? Your constant disrespect for Tim is grating on my nerves
I think Tim has had a major influence in how all the current Spurs' players have turned out.... But not in talent so much as in confidence. Having the BEST player in the world pretty much tell you that he couldn't win a championship without you is a HUGE confidence booster... So in a way he has influenced these players.