How good is the Cavs Defense?

[dbreiden83080]

The last 2 days i keep hearing from the media and the experts that the Cavs D is right there with SA and that is why this will be a tough series. Am i the only one that doesn't get why they are saying this? Nobody on the Cavs made either of the all defensive teams and they really do not have any shot blocking to speak of. Ilgauskas is big but he is not a shot blocker averaging less than 1 BLK a game in the playoffs. Gooden same thing less than a Blk a game and he is not strong enough or big enough to handle Tim down low, he will get whipped one on one. Is there team defense that good that this is a genuine problem for SA?

[PM5K]

Statistically they were a top defensive team during the regular season and the top defensive team during the playoffs...

[Darkwaters]

Statistically they were a top defensive team during the regular season and the top defensive team during the playoffs...

Against a Wizards team minus Agent Zero and Caron Butler.

Against an aging Nets team that was barely .500 out East

Against an inept Pistons team that looked lost all series and slows the tempo anyways (although, this was their best accomplishment of the postseason)

[gino>yourlife]

:eastern conference:

[Marcus Bryant]

How good is the Cavs' offense? 24th in FG% this season. 18th in 3 point FG%. 29th in FT%.

Spurs were 2nd in FG%, 4th in 3 pt FG%, and an unheard of 17th ranking in FT%.

Spurs in 5.

[dbreiden83080]

Against a Wizards team minus Agent Zero and Caron Butler.

Against an aging Nets team that was barely .500 out East

Against an inept Pistons team that looked lost all series and slows the tempo anyways (although, this was their best accomplishment of the postseason)

All good points especially about the Pistons tempo. Just seems weird to me if this is a battle of Defense the Spurs have better one on one defenders and play a better team D, so i fail to see why this would be a serious problem for the Spurs.

[td4mvp3]

How good is the Cavs' offense? 24th in FG% this season. 18th in 3 point FG%. 29th in FT%.

Spurs were 2nd in FG%, 4th in 3 pt FG%, and an unheard of 17th ranking in FT%.

Spurs in 5.
i wish i had your confidence.

[Marcus Bryant]

i wish i had your confidence.

Disparities like that don't lie.

[td4mvp3]

Disparities like that don't lie.
i just keep thinking there's something i'm missing. the disparities are so obvious, why give the cavs any chance?

[MrChug]

How good is the Cavs' offense? 24th in FG% this season. 18th in 3 point FG%. 29th in FT%.

Spurs were 2nd in FG%, 4th in 3 pt FG%, and an unheard of 17th ranking in FT%.

Spurs in 5.

Well Marcus I like you're post...and ultimately there's NO DOUBT they will prove true. BUT (that's a bit BUT :lol ) regular seasons stats are foolsgold...see the 2005-7 Dallas Mavericks :lmao

[dbreiden83080]

Disparities like that don't lie.

Good points and when i keep hearing how good the Cavs D is and i look at their players and numbers i just don't see it. Hopefully they can't stop the Spurs with great regularity.

[Marcus Bryant]

The only team to have beaten the Spurs in a 7 game series in the last 3 playoffs (incl this one) were 7th in FG%, 9th in 3 pt FG%, & 6th in FT%.

[td4mvp3]

Well Marcus I like you're post...and ultimately there's NO DOUBT they will prove true. BUT (that's a bit BUT :lol ) regular seasons stats are foolsgold...see the 2005-7 Dallas Mavericks :lmao
statistically, they were vulnerable to the warriors, who scored second most in the west and could score more than the mavs. the mavs tried to get into a running game because they couldn't do the slow down post thing. the cavs are a worse offensive and defensive team, worse at steals, worse at turnovers, worse at freethrows. they get about three more boards than the spurs, though.

[LilMissSPURfect]

SPURS will eXPOSE their dynamic defense

[Marcus Bryant]

That team also forced a major change in the Spurs' rotation which weakened their defense considerably.

[Marcus Bryant]

statistically, they were vulnerable to the warriors, who scored second most in the west and could score more than the mavs. the mavs tried to get into a running game because they couldn't do the slow down post thing. the cavs are a worse offensive and defensive team, worse at steals, worse at turnovers, worse at freethrows. they get about three more boards than the spurs, though.

Unless the Cavs can force the Spurs to start Michael Finley at the 4 I'm not worried.

[Darkwaters]

All good points especially about the Pistons tempo. Just seems weird to me if this is a battle of Defense the Spurs have better one on one defenders and play a better team D, so i fail to see why this would be a serious problem for the Spurs.

Proclaiming that the Cavs are a stellar defensive team is the same as people oggling Leandro Barbosa's numbers in the Phoenix system. The Cavaliers have a significant advantage in this department as they only played San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, Utah, Houston, Denver and the rest of the west but twice. Meanwhile they were allowed to run amuck on Milwaukee, Boston, Charlotte, New York, Atlanta and the rest of the dredges of this league. Frankly, it's not too difficult to put up stellar numbers on dismal teams just like it's not too difficult to average 12 points a game when your team has 18 seconds left on the shot clock on average each possession (Barbosa). Take Cleveland's numbers therefore, with a grain of salt.

That being said, I do not mean to presume that Cleveland is a poor defensive team. It is obviously at the heart of what they do and is a significant asset. They are just nowhere near the Spurs' level. Period.

[dbreiden83080]

Proclaiming that the Cavs a stellar defensive team is the same as people oggling Leandro Barbosa's numbers in the Phoenix system. The Cavaliers have a significant advantage in this department as they only played San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, Utah, Houston, Denver and the rest of the west but once. Meanwhile they were allowed to run amuck on Milwaukee, Boston, Charlotte, New York, Atlanta and the rest of the dredges of this league. Frankly, it's not too difficult to put up stellar numbers on dismal teams just like it's not too difficult to average 12 points a game when your team has 18 seconds left on the shot clock on average each possession (Barbosa). Take Cleveland's numbers therefore, with a grain of salt.

That being said, I do not mean to presume that Cleveland is a poor defensive team. It is obviously at the heart of what they do and is a significant asset. They are just nowhere near the Spurs' level. Period.

Good points i mainly posted in response to an interview PJ did here where i live in NY. He said that he feels they have matchup problems for the Spurs without getting specific as to who that was and raved about their D being right there with the Spurs. Then when i looked at the stats and who they have played i was like HUH??

[td4mvp3]

Proclaiming that the Cavs a stellar defensive team is the same as people oggling Leandro Barbosa's numbers in the Phoenix system. The Cavaliers have a significant advantage in this department as they only played San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, Utah, Houston, Denver and the rest of the west but once. Meanwhile they were allowed to run amuck on Milwaukee, Boston, Charlotte, New York, Atlanta and the rest of the dredges of this league. Frankly, it's not too difficult to put up stellar numbers on dismal teams just like it's not too difficult to average 12 points a game when your team has 18 seconds left on the shot clock on average each possession (Barbosa). Take Cleveland's numbers therefore, with a grain of salt.

That being said, I do not mean to presume that Cleveland is a poor defensive team. It is obviously at the heart of what they do and is a significant asset. They are just nowhere near the Spurs' level. Period.
this has nothing to do with nothing, but i realized for the first time today that he has the same name as the mutinous captain who left jack sparrow on a deserted island. made me giggle.

[Marcus Bryant]

The problem is that the Spurs have a better offense and defense than any the Cavs have faced thusfar in the postseason. The teams the Cavs have faced so far have not executed well on the offensive end. The Cavs will struggle mightily to defend the Spurs' O and on the other end of the court the Cavs will be facing the best defense they've seen in the playoffs.

Spurs in 5.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

i just keep thinking there's something i'm missing. the disparities are so obvious, why give the cavs any chance?

:king

[Darkwaters]

this has nothing to do with nothing, but i realized for the first time today that he has the same name as the mutinous captain who left jack sparrow on a deserted island. made me giggle.

Sure it does. People have consistently pointed to "well the Cavs are ranked such and such in FG%" or "But the Cavs only allow this many points". People use stats to try and and legitimize this defense when it simply is not on par with what San Antonio brings. Thats my only point.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure it does. People have consistently pointed to "well the Cavs are ranked such and such in FG%" or "But the Cavs only allow this many points". People use stats to try and and legitimize this defense when it simply is not on par with what San Antonio brings. Thats my only point.

No doubt.

[td4mvp3]

Sure it does. People have consistently pointed to "well the Cavs are ranked such and such in FG%" or "But the Cavs only allow this many points". People use stats to try and and legitimize this defense when it simply is not on par with what San Antonio brings. Thats my only point.
:lol
no, i meant that the fact that leandro and the mutinous capt share the same last name had nothing to do with anything.

[td4mvp3]

just comparing cavs to the 02-03 nets:

nets scored avg 95.4 ppg, held opponents to 90.1, had a differential of 5.2, shot 44.13 %, 33 % from 3, held opps to 36 percent from three

cavs scored 96.8 ppg, held opps 92.9, differential of 3.8, 44.73 fg%, 35 % 3 fg, 33 opps fg % from 3.

[Darkwaters]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/143/357142123_167e13c83d_o.jpg

[Cry Havoc]

The Spurs played the best teams in the league (the West) all year long and still put up far better numbers than the Cavs did on defense.

A sweep would not surprise me.

Consider the Utah team we just played against was better at every position except the SF. We annihilated them, and that was with Williams going off every night.

[td4mvp3]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/143/357142123_167e13c83d_o.jpg
:lol
he'll get horry one way or another!

[Trainwreck2100]

That movie could have been so much better

[Darkwaters]

That movie could have been so much better

Considering that whenever the first movie was released nobody expected it to do a damn thing I'd say it was much better than expected.

Of course, the tale of the two sequels is another issue entirely.

[td4mvp3]

Considering that whenever the first movie was released nobody expected it to do a damn thing I'd say it was much better than expected.

Of course, the tale of the two sequels is another issue entirely.
i thought the sequels were great, the second one went a little long, but come on! calypso turning into crabs was nice, if sexually suggestive.

[Darkwaters]

i thought the sequels were great, the second one went a little long, but come on! calypso turning into crabs was nice, if sexually suggestive.

I was generally happy with the sequels. I just thought the writer tried to shove far too much into the movies as was apparent by the serious lapses in storytelling at various points. Too many loose ends and unfinished subplots.

But all and all, well worth my money to see.

[lrrr]

Statistics can be used to prove any point you want...

































80% of people know that.

[Solid D]

The last 2 days i keep hearing from the media and the experts that the Cavs D is right there with SA and that is why this will be a tough series. Am i the only one that doesn't get why they are saying this? Nobody on the Cavs made either of the all defensive teams and they really do not have any shot blocking to speak of. Ilgauskas is big but he is not a shot blocker averaging less than 1 BLK a game in the playoffs. Gooden same thing less than a Blk a game and he is not strong enough or big enough to handle Tim down low, he will get whipped one on one. Is there team defense that good that this is a genuine problem for SA?

The Cavs play good team defense. They have excellent interior size plus a very active, athletic jumping jack in LeBron who covers a lot of ground very quickly. They rebound better than most teams and get lots of 2nd chance points to help out their inept team offense.

If the Cavs can shoot a decent percentage, it will be a tough series. If not, the Spurs should be able to get out and run and win in big-time fashion. The Cavs just have a way of throwing a wrench into normally easy scoring positions. Since the Cavs play a similar defensive scheme to the Spurs, they see the Spurs defense in practice. My heart says one thing but my eyes, my reason and basketball sense say another. The series could turn ugly.

[dbreiden83080]

The Cavs play good team defense. They have excellent interior size plus a very active, athletic jumping jack in LeBron who covers a lot of ground very quickly. They rebound better than most teams and get lots of 2nd chance points to help out their inept team offense.



They rebound well but their size does not block shots and they have ZERO lockdown defenders like the Spurs do. Lebron is not a great defender especially one on one. I laughed at people giving him so much credit for Prince missing a million shots he usually makes in the East finals. Prince played like shit Lebron's D was not the main reason why. They rebound a bit better than the Spurs but no way their D is what the Spurs is or anything close no way.

[Solid D]

I hope your theory is accurate. I just know that in watching the Cavs this year in the playoffs, they have defended the ball very well and the recovery on rotations was very quick and strong. I hope your theory plays out.

[dbreiden83080]

I hope your theory is accurate. I just know that in watching the Cavs this year in the playoffs, they have defended the ball very well and the recovery on rotations was very quick and strong. I hope your theory plays out.

My main thing is how they can they shut down the big 3. It is almost a given that Tim and either Tony or Manu will be playing well in all the games. If all 3 are playing well they have no shot. I don't see their D keeping Tony out of the paint while stopping Manu from getting in the lane and hitting 3's, while stopping Tim from killing their big's one on one with no lockdown defenders on their team. The Pistons of 05 were a beast on D in every way. We got past them in a great series. These guys are not even close to them.

[JMarkJohns]

Overall, I agree with Solid D's description, but do think that the media is now overhyping their defense because they stunted the seriously flawed offense of Detroit, so I also agree with dbreiden. Their team defense is solid. They make good rotations for the most part. Their bigs are active, but not serious shotblockers, so shots around the rim may or may not be seriously altered.

They are, however, most definately the better rebounding team of the two teams. They'll kill San Antonio on the offensive glass if the Spurs double or go zone. Man-to-man on an isolation team plays into their inept offenses hands a bit.

I do think San Antonio is the better overall defense.

[dbreiden83080]

A big thing as well is Tony is the fastest PG in the league and Hughes is playing on one foot. He will not be able to stay with Tony for shit right out of the box.

[BeerIsGood!]

Cleveland's D looked great against stagnant offense, but I've yet to see them tested against crisp ball reversals and bigs who are mobile and can pass to anywhere on the court. The Pistons were far too stagnant on offense and let the Cavs set in. The Spurs will have stretches where they do that too, but if they play their offensive sets and move the ball around the shots will be there. At that point it just comes down to knocking down open looks.

[IM NOT DIRTY]

Against a Wizards team minus Agent Zero and Caron Butler.

Against an aging Nets team that was barely .500 out East

Against an inept Pistons team that looked lost all series and slows the tempo anyways (although, this was their best accomplishment of the postseason)


Do u know why pistons looked slow??? CAVS DEFENCE DUMBASS!!!!

[IM NOT DIRTY]

o and they also held spurs into the 80's. :elephant

[Johnny RIngo]

The Cavs defense is very good. They were 3rd overall in opponent's EFG% during the season(right behind the Spurs who were 2nd). Their offense outside of Lebron is abysmal though. With that said Spurs in 5.

[Darkwaters]

Do u know why pistons looked slow??? CAVS DEFENCE DUMBASS!!!!

Don't flatter yourself with your defense. Especially when you can't even spell the word.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Cavs play good team defense. They have excellent interior size plus a very active, athletic jumping jack in LeBron who covers a lot of ground very quickly. They rebound better than most teams and get lots of 2nd chance points to help out their inept team offense.

If the Cavs can shoot a decent percentage, it will be a tough series. If not, the Spurs should be able to get out and run and win in big-time fashion. The Cavs just have a way of throwing a wrench into normally easy scoring positions. Since the Cavs play a similar defensive scheme to the Spurs, they see the Spurs defense in practice. My heart says one thing but my eyes, my reason and basketball sense say another. The series could turn ugly.

My head is telling me the Spurs should win this with ease while my heart is looking for a reason to worry.

[IM NOT DIRTY]

Don't flatter yourself with your defense. Especially when you can't even spell the word.

STOP TALKING OUT YOUR ASS!!!!

cavs deserve to be here just as much as the spurs do. we are 19-11 against the west 2-0 against your spurs, give htem so damn credit.

[Obstructed_View]

i just keep thinking there's something i'm missing. the disparities are so obvious, why give the cavs any chance?
Because the Spurs might not show up. Because someone might step up. Because Lebron can win one or two games on his own. Because someone might get hurt. Because they might hit a lot of lucky shots. The Cavs have as realistic chance of winning as anyone ever has. But the Spurs have as realistic chance of dominating this series as anyone ever has.

That's the beauty of sports.

[sandman]

STOP TALKING OUT YOUR ASS!!!!

cavs deserve to be here just as much as the spurs do. we are 19-11 against the west 2-0 against your spurs, give htem so damn credit.

Meh, take your Aritha Franklin shtick someplace else. The Spurs invented the "give us some respect" angle. Hell, it's their 4th Finals appearance and they are a side note to LBJ.

[Marcus Bryant]

STOP TALKING OUT YOUR ASS!!!!

cavs deserve to be here just as much as the spurs do. we are 19-11 against the west 2-0 against your spurs, give htem so damn credit.

This season, the Cavs were 1-5 against the Spurs' playoff opponents in the first three rounds. The Spurs were 6-0 against the Cavs'...

Maybe if Pop plays Udrih and Bonner heavy minutes tonight the Cavs will win.

[Marcus Bryant]

Also, since the regular season means so much, the Cavs' vaunted defense was torched by the Suns twice. The Spurs aren't exactly that much of a step down from the Suns offensively and the Spurs were able to beat them in the regular season as well as in the postseason.

[BWJACKETS]

Good points and when i keep hearing how good the Cavs D is and i look at their players and numbers i just don't see it. Hopefully they can't stop the Spurs with great regularity.

How can you not see it? The Cavs have been statistically the best defensive team in the playoffs. So they don't rely all on shot-blocking, whats so bad about that? They never are out of position, contest shots, and they dominate the boards. Guys know for the most part when they should break off onto a double-team and also how to funnel opposing players into "hot zones" where they can trap and smother them or force them to throw the ball away. Another big strength is that this team does not let themselves get all out of position trying to make a big play, the team forces alot of turnovers but they do it by staying at home and forming traps.

I think the key deciding factor will be what kind of production the Spurs can get from Tim Duncan. Anytime he doesn't put up big numbers, the Spurs are going to struggle in this matchup. San Antonio I think can win the majority of the time if Duncan and Parker, or Duncan and Ginobili have good nights, however even if Parker and Ginobili have big nights, without Duncan's leadership and post-presence I think Cleveland can smother SA's backcourt and dominate the game. Cleveland particularly should be trying to block out the passing lanes to Duncan, if they can cut those off it would go a long way to setting the tone, I think they can do it too. I'd put my money on whichever team can come out and dominate defensively in this series, we know SA is capable of scoring alot of points however they also haven't played a team with as good of a defense as Cleveland's in the playoffs.

[BWJACKETS]

This season, the Cavs were 1-5 against the Spurs' playoff opponents in the first three rounds. The Spurs were 6-0 against the Cavs'...

Maybe if Pop plays Udrih and Bonner heavy minutes tonight the Cavs will win.

Hey asshole, the only stats that matter now are 2-0 Cavs beat SA during regular season, and 0-0 series hasn't started yet.

[Leetonidas]

Not very.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's not that hard to look great defensively against 3 below-average offensive teams. We'll see how good they are against one of the top 3 offenses in the NBA. We'll also see how good they are defending the transition game.

[Marcus Bryant]

Hey asshole, the only stats that matter now are 2-0 Cavs beat SA during regular season, and 0-0 series hasn't started yet.

You know you've just dropped the truth when the second word in a reply is an expletive.

[BWJACKETS]

Not very.

The answer to the question "How good is the Cavs Defense?" would be "Better than the Spurs." The other acceptable answer would be "Statistically the Best in the Playoffs."

[Marcus Bryant]

The answer to the question "How good is the Cavs Defense?" would be "Better than the Spurs." The other acceptable answer would be "Statistically the Best in the Playoffs."

Amusing considering the Spurs faced 3 above-average offenses in the 1st 3 rounds while the Cavs faced 3 abysmal ones.

[Marcus Bryant]

Considering that there won't be any back to backs in the Finals nor will Udrih and Bonner be seeing any court time save for token appearances at the end of some wins, the regular season matchups are irrelevant.

[BWJACKETS]

It's not that hard to look great defensively against 3 below-average offensive teams. We'll see how good they are against one of the top 3 offenses in the NBA. We'll also see how good they are defending the transition game.

I wouldn't say the teams Cleveland played are below-average offensive teams. Sure, Washington had their injuries, which have been well-documented. However, Detroit scores plenty of points and so does New Jersey. I would take either Detroit's (Hamilton/Billups/Prince) or Jersey's (Carter/Kidd/Jefferson) backcourts over San Antonio's (Parker/Ginbili/Bowen) in terms of scoring any day of the week.

[JoeTait75]

Amusing considering the Spurs faced 3 above-average offenses in the 1st 3 rounds while the Cavs faced 3 abysmal ones.

I wouldn't call New Jersey's offense "abysmal". You guys know what Kidd is capable of.

[Obstructed_View]

I wouldn't call New Jersey's offense "abysmal". You guys know what Kidd is capable of.
Yeah, they scored like four points in the fourth quarter of a game.

[Marcus Bryant]

I wouldn't say the teams Cleveland played are below-average offensive teams. Sure, Washington had their injuries, which have been well-documented. However, Detroit scores plenty of points and so does New Jersey. I would take either Detroit's (Hamilton/Billups/Prince) or Jersey's (Carter/Kidd/Jefferson) backcourts over San Antonio's (Parker/Ginbili/Bowen) in terms of scoring any day of the week.

Of course you wouldn't say that. Let's go to the almighty stats...

2006-07 FG% Rankings
Washington 23rd
New Jersey 17th
Detroit 20th
Cleveland 24th

Denver 7th
Phoenix 1st
Utah 3rd
San Antonio 2nd

[FromWayDowntown]

Anytime he doesn't put up big numbers, the Spurs are going to struggle in this matchup. San Antonio I think can win the majority of the time if Duncan and Parker, or Duncan and Ginobili have good nights, however even if Parker and Ginobili have big nights, without Duncan's leadership and post-presence I think Cleveland can smother SA's backcourt and dominate the game.

So, wait, are you then saying that you think that the Cavs can basically shut down Duncan, Parker AND Ginobili?


Cleveland particularly should be trying to block out the passing lanes to Duncan, if they can cut those off it would go a long way to setting the tone, I think they can do it too. I'd put my money on whichever team can come out and dominate defensively in this series, we know SA is capable of scoring alot of points however they also haven't played a team with as good of a defense as Cleveland's in the playoffs.

And the Cavs haven't played a team with an offense (or a defense) as good as San Antonio's.

[Leetonidas]

The answer to the question "How good is the Cavs Defense?" would be "Better than the Spurs." The other acceptable answer would be "Statistically the Best in the Playoffs."
See Marcus Bryant's post.

[JoeTait75]

Yeah, they scored like four points in the fourth quarter of a game.

One period of one game is a rather small sample size to make sweeping judgements, no?

[slayermin]

From what I have seen of their defense, it's above average but not great.

I have been impressed with their overall team rebounding. Lebron really does a good job of controlling the glass with their bigs. They don't force as many missed shots as the Spurs but because they don't give up offensive boards, their defense seems better than it really is.

[BWJACKETS]

Amusing considering the Spurs faced 3 above-average offenses in the 1st 3 rounds while the Cavs faced 3 abysmal ones.

See, now you are just making shit up. Denver isn't some kind of great team, let's clear that up right now. You are trying to inflate your opponents in a big way. Denver as a team averaged 105pts scored and 103pts allowed, they scored alot of points but they also gave up a ton of points as well. Utah scored 101pts per game and allowed 99pts per game. Phoenix had a more impressive margin of victory, averaging 110pts per game and allowing 102 points per game.

So, we can see that Denver and Utah both are not that great. Phoenix had a larger margin of victory than the other two opponents SA has faced this postseason, however in total, none of the Spurs' three opponents know how to play defense worth shit.

[Obstructed_View]

One period of one game is a rather small sample size to make sweeping judgements, no?
I'm sorry, you said we all know what they can do, like they are this offensive juggernaut. One quarter during a six game series is a much larger percentage than two games out of 82.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The answer to the question "How good is the Cavs Defense?" would be "Better than the Spurs." The other acceptable answer would be "Statistically the Best in the Playoffs."

comparing stats when there are no common opponents is worthless.

[JoeTait75]

I'm sorry, you said we all know what they can do, like they are this offensive juggernaut. One quarter during a six game series is a much larger percentage than two games out of 82.

1.) The comment was that New Jersey is "abysmal" offensively, not that they're a juggernaut. They're neither.

2.) My rejoinder was "You know what Kidd can do." He's a very capable player.

New Jersey is 12th in the NBA in ppg, 7th in fg pct, and 4th in adjusted fg pct. They're not a bad offensive team.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

See, now you are just making shit up. Denver isn't some kind of great team, let's clear that up right now. You are trying to inflate your opponents in a big way. Denver as a team averaged 105pts scored and 103pts allowed, they scored alot of points but they also gave up a ton of points as well. Utah scored 101pts per game and allowed 99pts per game. Phoenix had a more impressive margin of victory, averaging 110pts per game and allowing 102 points per game.

So, we can see that Denver and Utah both are not that great. Phoenix had a larger margin of victory than the other two opponents SA has faced this postseason, however in total, none of the Spurs' three opponents know how to play defense worth shit.

first you are talking about offensive production now youre putting otu a red herring with point differential. But for shits and giggles lets look at opponent point differential.

Denver 9th
Utah 8th
Phoenix 2nd

Washington 15th
New Jersey 16th
Detroit 5th

Facto in that Washinton was gutted by injuries and it becomes more telling.

Spurs 1st
Cavs 7th

I think if we were to show the point differential by conference it would show further how much of a lopsided statistical advantage the Spurs have.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

1.) The comment was that New Jersey is "abysmal" offensively, not that they're a juggernaut. They're neither.

2.) My rejoinder was "You know what Kidd can do." He's a very capable player.

New Jersey is 12th in the NBA in ppg, 7th in fg pct, and 4th in adjusted fg pct. They're not a bad offensive team.

wow you beat an average offensive team. :clap :clap :clap

[Obstructed_View]

Of course you wouldn't say that. Let's go to the almighty stats...

2006-07 FG% Rankings
Washington 23rd
New Jersey 17th
Detroit 20th
Cleveland 24th

Denver 7th
Phoenix 1st
Utah 3rd
San Antonio 2nd
Denver acquired Allen Iverson mid season and Carmelo Anthony was suspended. They didn't get it together until the end of the season and came into the playoffs much better than their full season ranking. It's entirely possible that the Spurs played the top four offenses in the NBA on their way to the finals.

[JoeTait75]

wow you beat an average offensive team. :clap :clap :clap

Now you're getting it. The Nets are average to slightly-above-average offensively; no great shakes, but better than some folks on this board are making out.

[Marcus Bryant]

New Jersey is 12th in the NBA in ppg, 7th in fg pct, and 4th in adjusted fg pct. They're not a bad offensive team.

NJ was 15th in PPG, 17th in FG%, and 25th in FT% in 2006-07.

[Marcus Bryant]

Now you're getting it. The Nets are average to slightly-above-average offensively; no great shakes, but better than some folks on this board are making out.

rofl. When you make up rankings maybe the are.

[Marcus Bryant]

See, now you are just making shit up. Denver isn't some kind of great team, let's clear that up right now. You are trying to inflate your opponents in a big way. Denver as a team averaged 105pts scored and 103pts allowed, they scored alot of points but they also gave up a ton of points as well. Utah scored 101pts per game and allowed 99pts per game. Phoenix had a more impressive margin of victory, averaging 110pts per game and allowing 102 points per game.

So, we can see that Denver and Utah both are not that great. Phoenix had a larger margin of victory than the other two opponents SA has faced this postseason, however in total, none of the Spurs' three opponents know how to play defense worth shit.

The odd thing is, the Cavs were a combined 1-5 against the Nuggets, Suns, and Jazz this season.

Utah was 11th in the league in opponents' FG%, the Suns 14th and the Nuggets 15th.

Spurs? 4th.

[Marcus Bryant]

Help for Cav Fan (http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html)

[Marcus Bryant]

first you are talking about offensive production now youre putting otu a red herring with point differential. But for shits and giggles lets look at opponent point differential.

Denver 9th
Utah 8th
Phoenix 2nd

Washington 15th
New Jersey 16th
Detroit 5th

Facto in that Washinton was gutted by injuries and it becomes more telling.

Spurs 1st
Cavs 7th

I think if we were to show the point differential by conference it would show further how much of a lopsided statistical advantage the Spurs have.

Right. So the Cavs' vaunted defense was tested by poor offenses in their run to the Finals while the Spurs had to face 3 of the top 7 (including 2 of the top 3) offenses in the league during theirs.

The funny thing is, the Spurs have the 2nd most efficient offense in the NBA and probably the most efficient defense.

[Marcus Bryant]

The odd thing is, the Cavs were a combined 1-5 against the Nuggets, Suns, and Jazz this season.

Utah was 11th in the league in opponents' FG%, the Suns 14th and the Nuggets 15th.

Spurs? 4th.

So when the Cavs' D faces great offenses it can't hold them back and it struggles to score against average to slightly better than average defenses.

Spurs in 5.

[BWJACKETS]

first you are talking about offensive production now youre putting otu a red herring with point differential. But for shits and giggles lets look at opponent point differential.

Denver 9th
Utah 8th
Phoenix 2nd

Washington 15th
New Jersey 16th
Detroit 5th

Facto in that Washinton was gutted by injuries and it becomes more telling.

Spurs 1st
Cavs 7th

I think if we were to show the point differential by conference it would show further how much of a lopsided statistical advantage the Spurs have.

Perhaps so, and you made some good points. However, in the same token you cannot deny that looking at the numbers I pointed out to you, of the three teams San Antonio has faced in the playoffs, only one of them allowed on average less than 100 points per game! That's just not good defense...however, on a side note, very good points you brought up.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Right. So the Cavs' vaunted defense was tested by poor offenses in their run to the Finals while the Spurs had to face 3 of the top 7 (including 2 of the top 3) offenses in the league during theirs.

The funny thing is, the Spurs have the 2nd most efficient offense in the NBA and probably the most efficient defense.

its point differential so its more of an overall view but yeah you get the point.

The only team that ranked below NJ and Wash in point differential in the playoffs was Miami. Essentially the Cavs beat 2 of the 3 worst teams in the playoffs to get to the finals

[Marcus Bryant]

Perhaps so, and you made some good points. However, in the same token you cannot deny that looking at the numbers I pointed out to you, of the three teams San Antonio has faced in the playoffs, only one of them allowed on average less than 100 points per game! That's just not good defense...however, on a side note, very good points you brought up.

Might that have something to do with the fact that those teams also had 3 of the top 7 most efficient offenses in the NBA?

Cavs were 1-5 against those teams. Telling.

[JoeTait75]

rofl. When you make up rankings maybe the are.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&season=2007&seasontype=3&league=nba

(shrug) Ain't on me if ESPN has its numbers wrong.

[Marcus Bryant]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&season=2007&seasontype=3&league=nba

(shrug) Ain't on me if ESPN has its numbers wrong.

Sure it is. Find a better source, like, um, the league.

[JoeTait75]

Sure it is. Find a better source, like, um, the league.

Fair enough. Could you explain how a middle-of-the-pack finish in ppg and pg pct- without the services of a healthy Richard Jefferson- makes a team "abysmal"?

[mardigan]

All I have to say is that the Wizards scored over 90 points in 3 out of 4 games.

[Marcus Bryant]

Fair enough. Could you explain how a middle-of-the-pack finish in ppg and pg pct- without the services of a healthy Richard Jefferson- makes a team "abysmal"?

When compared to the Spurs, Jazz, Suns, & Nuggets, it certainly was so.

[RUSUREBOUTHAT?]

U have beat the lakers, the suns, and the jazz. All of the above have been beaten by Cleveland this year. The one team that I did not mention is the san antonio spurs, who were also defeated by cleveland twice this year. You guys may be playing different ball now, but the fact is so is cleveland. I would hesitate to be as arrogent as you spurs fans are being because the truth is that with a real superstar like lebron james, the spurs cant take any plays off or it will b over.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Perhaps so, and you made some good points. However, in the same token you cannot deny that looking at the numbers I pointed out to you, of the three teams San Antonio has faced in the playoffs, only one of them allowed on average less than 100 points per game! That's just not good defense...however, on a side note, very good points you brought up.

Im not sure what you are trying to get at. You would hve to look at points per 100 possesions to make that determination. The fact is that Denver and Phoenix both like to fast break every chancve they get so any game they are in will have more overall possesions and thus more total points scored.

in fact Phoenix is a very surprisingly good defensive team. Now the way they were using kurt thomas was a matchup thing with Duncan but there traps on the pickand roll were the best I have seen all year. That is something Sideshow, Gooden and Lurch cannot pull off. In short Parker is going to cause problems on it all series long. Raja Bell is a top 5 to 10 perimeter defender in the NBA.

Denver at least has a top tier shotblocker when their perimeter guys get beat which Cleveland simply doesnt have. But lets get real here they were our first round opponent. There team is predicated on offense and with AI and Carmelo they are a superb offensive team. They would have beat both of your first 2 opponents in a 7 game series.

[mardigan]

U have beat the lakers, the suns, and the jazz. All of the above have been beaten by Cleveland this year. The one team that I did not mention is the san antonio spurs, who were also defeated by cleveland twice this year. You guys may be playing different ball now, but the fact is so is cleveland. I would hesitate to be as arrogent as you spurs fans are being because the truth is that with a real superstar like lebron james, the spurs cant take any plays off or it will b over.
Que?

[Marcus Bryant]

U have beat the lakers, the suns, and the jazz. All of the above have been beaten by Cleveland this year. The one team that I did not mention is the san antonio spurs, who were also defeated by cleveland twice this year. You guys may be playing different ball now, but the fact is so is cleveland. I would hesitate to be as arrogent as you spurs fans are being because the truth is that with a real superstar like lebron james, the spurs cant take any plays off or it will b over.

The Cavs didn't beat the Suns this season. Crawl back in your hole.

[FromWayDowntown]

because the truth is that with a real superstar like lebron james, the spurs cant take any plays off or it will b over.

It's too bad the Spurs don't have a real superstar.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

U have beat the lakers, the suns, and the jazz. All of the above have been beaten by Cleveland this year. The one team that I did not mention is the san antonio spurs, who were also defeated by cleveland twice this year. You guys may be playing different ball now, but the fact is so is cleveland. I would hesitate to be as arrogent as you spurs fans are being because the truth is that with a real superstar like lebron james, the spurs cant take any plays off or it will b over.

seeing that you dont even know who we played you discredit yourself. and with a superstar like Duncan you arent going to be able to take any plays off.

im sorry but the fact that the only hat you have to hang on is your superstar is where you fall short. we have one too and a team to go along with him.

[Marcus Bryant]

Im not sure what you are trying to get at. You would hve to look at points per 100 possesions to make that determination. The fact is that Denver and Phoenix both like to fast break every chancve they get so any game they are in will have more overall possesions and thus more total points scored.

in fact Phoenix is a very surprisingly good defensive team. Now the way they were using kurt thomas was a matchup thing with Duncan but there traps on the pickand roll were the best I have seen all year. That is something Sideshow, Gooden and Lurch cannot pull off. In short Parker is going to cause problems on it all series long. Raja Bell is a top 5 to 10 perimeter defender in the NBA.

Denver at least has a top tier shotblocker when their perimeter guys get beat which Cleveland simply doesnt have. But lets get real here they were our first round opponent. There team is predicated on offense and with AI and Carmelo they are a superb offensive team. They would have beat both of your first 2 opponents in a 7 game series.


Indeed. More possessions since they are so good offensively. The Cavs weren't able to slow them down.

[mardigan]

It's too bad the Spurs don't have a real superstar.
No shit, I cant believe the level that these Cav fans are downplaying Timmys impact on the game. Its even more so than LeBrons

[Marcus Bryant]

It's too bad the Spurs don't have a real superstar.

...or real 2nd and 3rd stars.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Cavs didn't beat the Nuggets this season either.

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs swept the Wizards, Nets, and Pistons this season.

[FromWayDowntown]

The Cavs didn't beat the Nuggets this season either.

And in one of those games, Carmelo didn't play.

[Marcus Bryant]

And in one of those games, Carmelo didn't play.

I'm guessing the Spurs faced the Wiz with at least a healthy Arenas.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm guessing the Spurs faced the Wiz with at least a healthy Arenas.

Arenas and Caron Butler played in both Spurs/Wizards games this year.

Antawn Jamison also played in the game in San Antonio.

[mardigan]

Arenas and Caron Butler played in both Spurs/Wizards games this year.

Antawn Jamison also played in the game in San Antonio.
And in both games they held the Wiz to less points than the Cavs did in any game of the series

[BWJACKETS]

No shit, I cant believe the level that these Cav fans are downplaying Timmys impact on the game. Its even more so than LeBrons

Duncan may be "better" according to Spurs fans, I myself would call them equally great, however whereas Duncan is focused on playing in the post 75% of the time, James is all over the court so he can have a larger impact on the game. However, you would have to be crazy to dismiss Duncan in this series- I know he will get his points, but the most anticipated matchup in my mind is Duncan guarding the basket defensively when Lebron drives the lane. Everybody remembers what happened at the start of the season when Lebron took Duncan to school, whether or not Duncan can stop Lebron from finishing will tell everybody alot about how this series is going to go.

[Marcus Bryant]

So basically once the Spurs shook off their traditional funk to start the season, kicked Beno to the back of the bench, and the Spurs moved Manu back to his traditional role, they rolled through the Cavs' tough playoff competition as well as the teams who the Cavs struggled against this season.

[mardigan]

Duncan may be "better" according to Spurs fans, I myself would call them equally great, however whereas Duncan is focused on playing in the post 75% of the time, James is all over the court so he can have a larger impact on the game. However, you would have to be crazy to dismiss Duncan in this series- I know he will get his points, but the most anticipated matchup in my mind is Duncan guarding the basket defensively when Lebron drives the lane. Everybody remembers what happened at the start of the season when Lebron took Duncan to school, whether or not Duncan can stop Lebron from finishing will tell everybody alot about how this series is going to go.
Learn to read, I didnt say he was better, I said he impacts the game on a bigger level

[Extra Stout]

Duncan may be "better" according to Spurs fans, I myself would call them equally great, however whereas Duncan is focused on playing in the post 75% of the time, James is all over the court so he can have a larger impact on the game.
What?


However, you would have to be crazy to dismiss Duncan in this series- I know he will get his points, but the most anticipated matchup in my mind is Duncan guarding the basket defensively when Lebron drives the lane. Everybody remembers what happened at the start of the season when Lebron took Duncan to school, whether or not Duncan can stop Lebron from finishing will tell everybody alot about how this series is going to go.
What?

Wow. Just wow.

[Marcus Bryant]

Duncan is a force at both ends of the court.

[Marcus Bryant]

Welcome to basketball, Cav Fan.

[JoeTait75]

So basically once the Spurs shook off their traditional funk to start the season, kicked Beno to the back of the bench, and the Spurs moved Manu back to his traditional role, they rolled through the Cavs' tough playoff competition as well as the teams who the Cavs struggled against this season.

The Cavaliers did go 4-0 against Milwaukee, however. :)

Would you guys be this disparaging if it was Detroit you were playing?

[Extra Stout]

Cav fan needs to understand that LeBron can score 35 a game, but if the rest of the team doesn't crack 50 combined, Spurs win most nights.

I guess LeBron needs to average a triple double along with his 35 a night.

[mardigan]

The Cavaliers did go 4-0 against Milwaukee, however. :)

Would you guys be this disparaging if it was Detroit you were playing?
After watching them play the Cavs yes

[Extra Stout]

The Cavaliers did go 4-0 against Milwaukee, however. :)

Would you guys be this disparaging if it was Detroit you were playing?
The hype wouldn't be making us nauseous if Detroit were playing.

[Marcus Bryant]

Would you pick the Bucks over the Spurs in the playoffs?

[FromWayDowntown]

Learn to read, I didnt say he was better, I said he impacts the game on a bigger level

I still don't think there is a player in the association who has the impact on both ends of the floor that Duncan has. That's the thing that makes him great. He's an offensive force who commands doubles and compels opponents to manufacture defenses to deal with him -- his presence makes him a great offensive force, whether he's scoring or passing or just serving as a conduit for the rest of the Spurs offense. That doesn't make Timmy unique, though.

What does make him unique is his ability to change games on the defensive end. It's not just his shot blocking, though his shot blocking is a huge part of his defensive prowess. I think Tim is among the best at altering shots or deterring shots as well. On top of all of that, Tim rarely allows himself to be out of position -- when he is, he plays smartly and offers token contests of shots without committing fouls. Lebron's much-heralded dunk is a prime example of that phenomenon.

There are other players in the league who are offensive forces. There are other players in the league who are defensive forces. But other than Tim Duncan, there are no players in the league who so perfectly combine those two things.

[ambchang]

See, now you are just making shit up. Denver isn't some kind of great team, let's clear that up right now. You are trying to inflate your opponents in a big way. Denver as a team averaged 105pts scored and 103pts allowed, they scored alot of points but they also gave up a ton of points as well. Utah scored 101pts per game and allowed 99pts per game. Phoenix had a more impressive margin of victory, averaging 110pts per game and allowing 102 points per game.

So, we can see that Denver and Utah both are not that great. Phoenix had a larger margin of victory than the other two opponents SA has faced this postseason, however in total, none of the Spurs' three opponents know how to play defense worth shit.
Given that he is talking about offense, it really isn't that far-fetched to talk about well, offense, instead of point differential, no?
And if you want to talk about point differential of opponents, I believe both the Nets and the Wizards (and that is including games with Arenas and Butler) were under zero, and Detriot is +4.2, far less than the Suns.
Seriously, do you know what you are talking about when you post? Because you tend to shift the subject a LOT during the same threads, changing your criteria and jumping to new arguments without ever acknowledging how wrong you were in the previous one. The best part is that the new "argument" you jumped into is so flawed, it sounds almost like you are trying to prove against your own point (see quoted post and response).

[mardigan]

Given that he is talking about offense, it really isn't that far-fetched to talk about well, offense, instead of point differential, no?
And if you want to talk about point differential of opponents, I believe both the Nets and the Wizards (and that is including games with Arenas and Butler) were under zero, and Detriot is +4.2, far less than the Suns.
Seriously, do you know what you are talking about when you post? Because you tend to shift the subject a LOT during the same threads, changing your criteria and jumping to new arguments without ever acknowledging how wrong you were in the previous one. The best part is that the new "argument" you jumped into is so flawed, it sounds almost like you are trying to prove against your own point (see quoted post and response).
No, he doesnt know what he is talking about at all.

[JoeTait75]

Would you pick the Bucks over the Spurs in the playoffs?

Of course not. But the transitive property doesn't apply in any case, whether it's you guys against the Bucks (or us), or you guys against Cleveland's playoff opponents. This is a game of matchups.

[BWJACKETS]

Cav fan needs to understand that LeBron can score 35 a game, but if the rest of the team doesn't crack 50 combined, Spurs win most nights.

I guess LeBron needs to average a triple double along with his 35 a night.

Well, getting other teammates involved in the scoring against Detroit didn't seem to be a problem, did it?? It isn't like Cleveland has a bunch of amatuers out there next to Lebron, it isn't like these guys are the worst offensive team in the league and none of their shots are going to fall. Cleveland dominated and controlled Detroit, a very good team in their own right. Guys like Gibson, Z, Marshall, and others are going to knock down shots. When Lebron gets to the basket, these guys are going to be getting wide open looks. In any case, the Cavs have already beaten the Spurs once this season in a game where Lebron only scored 19, so I guess there goes your argument.

[BWJACKETS]

Given that he is talking about offense, it really isn't that far-fetched to talk about well, offense, instead of point differential, no?
And if you want to talk about point differential of opponents, I believe both the Nets and the Wizards (and that is including games with Arenas and Butler) were under zero, and Detriot is +4.2, far less than the Suns.
Seriously, do you know what you are talking about when you post? Because you tend to shift the subject a LOT during the same threads, changing your criteria and jumping to new arguments without ever acknowledging how wrong you were in the previous one. The best part is that the new "argument" you jumped into is so flawed, it sounds almost like you are trying to prove against your own point (see quoted post and response).

I was just noting that none of San Antonio's opponents in the playoffs thus far are any good on defense. I simply added the points scored in my post to make them visible to the rest of the board for reference.

[Marcus Bryant]

Of course not. But the transitive property doesn't apply in any case, whether it's you guys against the Bucks (or us), or you guys against Cleveland's playoff opponents. This is a game of matchups.

It certainly applies as to the importance of a couple of regular season losses.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Of course not. But the transitive property doesn't apply in any case, whether it's you guys against the Bucks (or us), or you guys against Cleveland's playoff opponents. This is a game of matchups.

In all the NBA i can think of only a handful of defenders I would rather have defending Lebron than Bowen. There is a whole slew of people i would rather have defend Duncan than Snatchpatch, Lurch or Sideshow.

We matchup better with James than you do with Duncan. This is before you start talking about Parker and Ginobilli.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I was just noting that none of San Antonio's opponents in the playoffs thus far are any good on defense. I simply added the points scored in my post to make them visible to the rest of the board for reference.

And it was pointed out that youre notations didnt show shit.

leave statistical analysis to people who know what theyre doing. KK thanks.

[Mr. Body]

Duncan may be "better" according to Spurs fans, I myself would call them equally great, however whereas Duncan is focused on playing in the post 75% of the time, James is all over the court so he can have a larger impact on the game.

If baskets were placed all over the court, I'd expect this to mean more than it does.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, getting other teammates involved in the scoring against Detroit didn't seem to be a problem, did it?? It isn't like Cleveland has a bunch of amatuers out there next to Lebron, it isn't like these guys are the worst offensive team in the league and none of their shots are going to fall. Cleveland dominated and controlled Detroit, a very good team in their own right. Guys like Gibson, Z, Marshall, and others are going to knock down shots. When Lebron gets to the basket, these guys are going to be getting wide open looks. In any case, the Cavs have already beaten the Spurs once this season in a game where Lebron only scored 19, so I guess there goes your argument.

The Cavs beat the Spurs in the second game of a back to back after an exhausting victory the night before with a hobbled Parker and in a home game that featured 25 minutes of Matt Bonner. Lest we forget that Beno Udrih was actually in the rotation and Pop had yet to make the traditional switch in the starting lineup between Ginobili and his backup. The Spurs once went 10-10 to start a season and won a championship at the end. The early regular season matchups are meaningless except to those who need to hype this series as something other than the Spurs rolling through yet another inferior Eastern Conference team on their way to their 4th title.

[ambchang]

1.) The comment was that New Jersey is "abysmal" offensively, not that they're a juggernaut. They're neither.

2.) My rejoinder was "You know what Kidd can do." He's a very capable player.

New Jersey is 12th in the NBA in ppg, 7th in fg pct, and 4th in adjusted fg pct. They're not a bad offensive team.
Not by my count, they are 15th in PPG, 18th in FG%, and 7th in Adjusted FG%.

This is at best pedestrial, and out of the 16 playoff teams, the Net ranks 11th in PPG, 12th in FG%, 7th in adjusted FG% in the regular season.

The numbers you are looking at are playoff numbers, and it is highly skewed because teams play 1 opponent for an extended period of time. These are number put up for the Nets playing 50% of their games against the Raptors, who are one of the worst defensive teams in the league.
And 12th out of 16th is abysmal in my view, that is at the 25% percentile.

[BWJACKETS]

In all the NBA i can think of only a handful of defenders I would rather have defending Lebron than Bowen. There is a whole slew of people i would rather have defend Duncan than Gooden, Lurch and Sideshow.

We matchup better with James than you do with Duncan. This is before you start talking about Parker and Ginobilli.

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with you. First off, Bowen is way too old and slow to defend Lebron, five minutes into game one James will have blown past him several times or have gotten him into foul trouble and your defense will have to pull other guys off...no single player can defend James and in most cases two guys can't defend him either.

Duncan is a great big man, however Cleveland has big men to combat your big man...two of them, as a matter of fact. Varajao and Z won't be able to stop Duncan, but they will be able to slow him down and force him to make some mistakes. The Cavs will double Duncan and play man to man with San Antonio's backcourt. If the Spurs can knock their shots down, congratulations, however Cleveland will be determined not to "let" Tim Duncan beat them anymore than San Antonio will "let" James beat them. It will come down to who which star plays bigger, Parker and Ginobili I really think will not have the kind of impact that Spurs fans think they will.

[Extra Stout]

Well, getting other teammates involved in the scoring against Detroit didn't seem to be a problem, did it?? It isn't like Cleveland has a bunch of amatuers out there next to Lebron, it isn't like these guys are the worst offensive team in the league and none of their shots are going to fall. Cleveland dominated and controlled Detroit, a very good team in their own right. Guys like Gibson, Z, Marshall, and others are going to knock down shots. When Lebron gets to the basket, these guys are going to be getting wide open looks. In any case, the Cavs have already beaten the Spurs once this season in a game where Lebron only scored 19, so I guess there goes your argument.
Gregg Popovich understands the concept of taking away complementary scorers. Flip Saunders does not. Gregg Popvich understands the concept of mixing up defensive looks. Flip Saunders did not.

Gregg Popovich is an utterly superior defensive strategist to Flip Saunders under all circumstances. The Pistons play good defense some of the time only because they remember some of what they were taught back when they had a real coach.

The Cavs are going to hold the Spurs below their scoring average, but outside of LeBron, they are going to struggle mightily to put points on the board. They put up 89.7 against Detroit. They'll average 85 or so against the Spurs.

The Spurs will average somewhere between 88 and 90.

[Marcus Bryant]

First off, Bowen is way too old and slow to defend...

(insert player name here).

How little they learn.

[Extra Stout]

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with you. First off, Bowen is way too old and slow to defend Lebron, five minutes into game one James will have blown past him several times or have gotten him into foul trouble and your defense will have to pull other guys off...no single player can defend James and in most cases two guys can't defend him either.
:lmao Exaggerate much?

[Marcus Bryant]

Gregg Popovich understands the concept of taking away complementary scorers. Flip Saunders does not. Gregg Popvich understands the concept of mixing up defensive looks. Flip Saunders did not.

Gregg Popovich is an utterly superior defensive strategist to Flip Saunders under all circumstances. The Pistons play good defense some of the time only because they remember some of what they were taught back when they had a real coach.

The Cavs are going to hold the Spurs below their scoring average, but outside of LeBron, they are going to struggle mightily to put points on the board. They put up 89.7 against Detroit. They'll average 85 or so against the Spurs.

The Spurs will average somewhere between 88 and 90.

No kidding. Cav Fan seems to think they beat the Pistons with Ben Wallace starting at the 5 and LB on the bench.

[mardigan]

BWJ, have you ever actually watched the SPurs play? Or even basketball in general?
It seems to me you just picked up an issue of ESPN the magazine and thats all you have to base your arguments off of

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with you. First off, Bowen is way too old and slow to defend Lebron, five minutes into game one James will have blown past him several times or have gotten him into foul trouble and your defense will have to pull other guys off...no single player can defend James and in most cases two guys can't defend him either.

Duncan is a great big man, however Cleveland has big men to combat your big man...two of them, as a matter of fact. Varajao and Z won't be able to stop Duncan, but they will be able to slow him down and force him to make some mistakes. The Cavs will double Duncan and play man to man with San Antonio's backcourt. If the Spurs can knock their shots down, congratulations, however Cleveland will be determined not to "let" Tim Duncan beat them anymore than San Antonio will "let" James beat them. It will come down to who which star plays bigger, Parker and Ginobili I really think will not have the kind of impact that Spurs fans think they will.


who is better at defending James than Bowen?

And i love how Sideshow and Lurch who are marginal man defenders are goign to slow down and force mistakes moreso than Bowen who is a top 5 man defender.

damn the kooliad in cleveland must be good.

http://a5.vox.com/6a00c22522de01604a00cdf7edf45d094f-320pi

[BWJACKETS]

The Cavs beat the Spurs in the second game of a back to back after an exhausting victory the night before with a hobbled Parker and in a home game that featured 25 minutes of Matt Bonner. Lest we forget that Beno Udrih was actually in the rotation and Pop had yet to make the traditional switch in the starting lineup between Ginobili and his backup. The Spurs once went 10-10 to start a season and won a championship at the end. The early regular season matchups are meaningless except to those who need to hype this series as something other than the Spurs rolling through yet another inferior Eastern Conference team on their way to their 4th title.

You are way too cocky, get ready for the big fall. Lebron James is going to prove without any doubt that he is the best in the league when the Cavs win the Championship and he is named MVP. ON PAPER San Antonio is better but you would have to be a complete moron to bet everything you have on what is on paper. Cavs aren't inferior, in fact they have been the best defensive team in the playoffs and they have the best single player in the playoffs to boot.

[Marcus Bryant]

You are way too cocky, get ready for the big fall. Lebron James is going to prove without any doubt that he is the best in the league when the Cavs win the Championship and he is named MVP. ON PAPER San Antonio is better but you would have to be a complete moron to bet everything you have on what is on paper. Cavs aren't inferior, in fact they have been the best defensive team in the playoffs and they have the best single player in the playoffs to boot.


Cockiness comes with experience. You can't dress up the regular season to make it something it wasn't. The Cavs' great playoff defense has come against 3 of the worst offenses in the playoffs. Impressive.

And the only thing Cav Fan is hanging his hat on besides two early season wins against a sleepwalking Spurs team is that ON PAPER they have the best playoff FG% defense against a Wizards team with their stars gone, a sucky Nets team and an imploding Piston team with defensive genius Flip Saunders at the helm.

[FromWayDowntown]

Parker and Ginobili I really think will not have the kind of impact that Spurs fans think they will.

Because, really, those guys have never gotten it done at playoff time -- least of all against good defensive teams.

[Marcus Bryant]

Because, really, those guys have never gotten it done at playoff time -- least of all against good defensive teams.

Somehow the Cavs are going to stop their penetration, shut down TD, and close out on the Spurs' shooters. Man, that Kleveland Kool-Aid is potent.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are way too cocky, get ready for the big fall. Lebron James is going to prove without any doubt that he is the best in the league when the Cavs win the Championship and he is named MVP. ON PAPER San Antonio is better but you would have to be a complete moron to bet everything you have on what is on paper. Cavs aren't inferior, in fact they have been the best defensive team in the playoffs and they have the best single player in the playoffs to boot.

:sleep

For the fifth time now. Using statistics that involve no common opponent is worthless to compare two teams.

The Nuggets, Suns and Jazz were top 8 in FG shooting %. The Suns and Jazz were 1st and 3rd respectively during the regular season.

The Nets, Wizards and Pistons were 17, 20 and 21. So hang your hat on those performance against the worst shooting teams in the playoffs.

[Spurminator]

Hope is so cute sometimes.

[ambchang]

Duncan may be "better" according to Spurs fans, I myself would call them equally great, however whereas Duncan is focused on playing in the post 75% of the time, James is all over the court so he can have a larger impact on the game. However, you would have to be crazy to dismiss Duncan in this series- I know he will get his points, but the most anticipated matchup in my mind is Duncan guarding the basket defensively when Lebron drives the lane. Everybody remembers what happened at the start of the season when Lebron took Duncan to school, whether or not Duncan can stop Lebron from finishing will tell everybody alot about how this series is going to go.
So Duncan is equally great to a 4th year who hasn't done anything of significance? Got you.
Then there is this claim that just left me speechless, it's so amusing I have to quote it again.

however whereas Duncan is focused on playing in the post 75% of the time, James is all over the court so he can have a larger impact on the game.
How long have you been watching the game? Rule #1 of building a basketball team is to have a dominant big man. It's nice to have a great wing player like Jordan, Magic, or ahem Lebron, but in the history of the league, most teams have won with a dominating big man because it is so much easier to build around one.
6'6" guys who can shoot open 3 pointers are much easier to find than 7'0" who can defend the middle and do a servicable job, just because genetically, humans are much shorter than 7'0", so if you can find a dominant big man, you do not have to worry about getting a 7' role player who is not a stiff, where as if you have dominant wing player, you still need a 7' role player who is not a stiff (ala Cartwright, Grant, old Jabbar, Laimbeer, etc....).
In basketball, a big man ALWAYS have a larger impact than little guys, thats why in the history of the league, there are way more big man MVPs than perimeter MVPs, and even the perimeter MVPs are 6'6", 6'9 guys like Jordan and Magic.
In fact, the only perimeter MVPs are:
Nash, Iverson, Jordan, Magic (even though both MJs spend an incredible amount of time posting up), Dr. J, Oscar Robertson (who also posts up more often than not), and Cousy, and this is despite the fact that there are more perimeter players than post players (well, 3 to 2 specifically), and the reason is because good low post players make MUCH more impact than a good perimeter player ever could.
And I just shake my head at how James dunking on Duncan in the early part of the season is indicative of how he would get Duncan into foul trouble in the NBA finals, when Duncan was neither seriously dunked on, nor was Duncan called for a foul in the play. Your logic is truly truly amusing.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh and by the way the Spurs were 2nd in shooting % and 4th in opponent FG %. 1st in point differential overall.

Quite frankly, the Cavs have not sniffed a team of the SPurs quality in these playoffs.

[Marcus Bryant]

Cav Fan should have paid attention to what happened last series to a Jazz team with an efficient offense, strong defense, and great rebounding. Utah was only 3 places (or 0.7%) behind the Cavs' in opponents' FG% this season. Utah is also 5th in opponents' FG% (at 44.1%) in the playoffs and that was with the Jazz facing the Rockets (41.0% FG) for 7 games in the 1st round.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh and by the way the Spurs were 2nd in shooting % and 4th in opponent FG %. 1st in point differential overall.

Quite frankly, the Cavs have not sniffed a team of the SPurs quality in these playoffs.

:tu

Also of note is that the Spurs were 6th in total rebounds allowed and 4th in offensive rebounds allowed this season...

[ambchang]

I was just noting that none of San Antonio's opponents in the playoffs thus far are any good on defense. I simply added the points scored in my post to make them visible to the rest of the board for reference.
That's why the Spurs capitalized on this fact by beating those teams 12-4 in the 3 rounds, ranked #5 in ppg, #3 in FG% and adjusted FG% in the playoffs, while Cavs couldn't shoot well against a Detroit team that allowed the Magic to shoot 47.75%.
However, I don't think the Cavs should be penalized for the opponents, and playing weak opponents does enhance a team's chances in the finals a great deal due to reasons like fatigue, and not showing all their cards for the other team to scout.
And Utah ranked 11th in OPP FG%, while Cavs ranked 8th. In fact, the difference in OPP FG% between Spurs and Cavs is similar to the difference between Cavs and Utah.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's why the Spurs capitalized on this fact by beating those teams 12-4 in the 3 rounds, ranked #5 in ppg, #3 in FG% and adjusted FG% in the playoffs, while Cavs couldn't shoot well against a Detroit team that allowed the Magic to shoot 47.75%.
However, I don't think the Cavs should be penalized for the opponents, and playing weak opponents does enhance a team's chances in the finals a great deal due to reasons like fatigue, and not showing all their cards for the other team to scout.
And Utah ranked 11th in OPP FG%, while Cavs ranked 8th. In fact, the difference in OPP FG% between Spurs and Cavs is similar to the difference between Cavs and Utah.

The Spurs' playoff opponents thusfar were 11th, 14th, and 15th in opponents' FG% this season and 1st, 3rd, and 7th in own FG%.

The Cavs' playoff opponents were 6th, 9th, and 27th in opponents' FG% this season and 17th, 20th and 23rd in own FG%.

The Spurs were 4th in opponents' FG% this season and 2nd in own FG%.

The Cavs were 8th in opponents' FG% this season and 24th in own FG%.

The Spurs' opponents were relatively better on their weaker side of the court (defense) than the Cavs' opponents were on theirs (offense). In addition, the Spurs' opponents were on the whole much more dominant on their strong side of the court (offense) than the Cavs' opponents were on their strong side (defense).

Head to head, the disparity between the Spurs and the Cavs in own FG% is striking and foretells a 5 game series win for the Spurs.

[RUSUREBOUTHAT?]

z and ducan will cancel eachother out for the most part. the most that duncan could possibly put up is 30 and thats a stretch. he is good for twenty & so is z. second off Sasha and finley will cancell eachother out. both are good role players but neither can take over a game. Parker will have the advantage over hughes going into tonight, but i think larrys size will give him a little bit of a problem. Gibson and manu r a wash. manu just doesnt put up numbers on the cavaliers. and finally lebron will not only own bowen ( who talks alot of trash considering the task a hand) but he will shred the san antonio defense completely. Say what u want. U shut down kobe, Carmello, Boozer, Nash, etc. But the fact is that these guys dont make their team better the way that lebron does. it was mental with the pistons. make no bones about it lebron simply doesnt have a hang up on the spurs. He could care less about them. He didnt come this far to lose. U will see how badly san antonio's D underestimates the speed of james. the cavs know it I know it & after tonight Pop will know It. Cavs in 6.

[Marcus Bryant]

z and ducan will cancel eachother out for the most part. the most that duncan could possibly put up is 30 and thats a stretch. he is good for twenty & so is z. second off Sasha and finley will cancell eachother out. both are good role players but neither can take over a game. Parker will have the advantage over hughes going into tonight, but i think larrys size will give him a little bit of a problem. Gibson and manu r a wash. manu just doesnt put up numbers on the cavaliers. and finally lebron will not only own bowen ( who talks alot of trash considering the task a hand) but he will shred the san antonio defense completely. Say what u want. U shut down kobe, Carmello, Boozer, Nash, etc. But the fact is that these guys dont make their team better the way that lebron does. it was mental with the pistons. make no bones about it lebron simply doesnt have a hang up on the spurs. He could care less about them. He didnt come this far to lose. U will see how badly san antonio's D underestimates the speed of james. the cavs know it I know it & after tonight Pop will know It. Cavs in 6.

Crank kills.

[mardigan]

z and ducan will cancel eachother out for the most part. Gibson and manu r a wash
These are two of the dumbest comments ever uttered on Spurstalk. Ever.

And Nash doesnt make his team better? You sir, are an idiot

[RUSUREBOUTHAT?]

not the same way that james does u retard. They cant rely on nash to take over a game. And if james was on the suns instead of nash, the suns would be in the finals. If nash was on the cavs instead of james, we'd have been in the lottery this year.

[MadDog73]

If "Z" scores 20 points a game, then the Cavs indeed have a chance.

That's not going to happen. Despite some sports writers opinions, Duncan actually plays pretty good Defense.

[Marcus Bryant]

not the same way that james does u retard. They cant rely on nash to take over a game. And if james was on the suns instead of nash, the suns would be in the finals. If nash was on the cavs instead of james, we'd have been in the lottery this year.

Unfortunately for you James is stuck with a mediocre supporting cast and will be dispatched from the Finals with haste.

[RUSUREBOUTHAT?]

& i dont care what manu does agaisnt the rest of the leauge. Look at his numbers against the cavs. what 12 a game. not gonna be enough.

[MadDog73]

not the same way that james does u retard. They cant rely on nash to take over a game. And if james was on the suns instead of nash, the suns would be in the finals. If nash was on the cavs instead of james, we'd have been in the lottery this year.


James is a point guard?

[samikeyp]

Ducan?

Did the Spurs pick up another foreigner that I didn't know about? :lol

[MadDog73]

& i dont care what manu does agaisnt the rest of the leauge. Look at his numbers against the cavs. what 12 a game. not gonna be enough.

Dipshit, regular season.

Look at Horry's numbers, he must suck. Might as well leave him open.

[mardigan]

not the same way that james does u retard. They cant rely on nash to take over a game. And if james was on the suns instead of nash, the suns would be in the finals. If nash was on the cavs instead of james, we'd have been in the lottery this year.
Another Cav fan that apparently doesnt watch basketball. Nash is the Suns team. And you saying he cant take over a game solidifies the fact that you are a dumbass. Your team barely won 50 games in the EAST with LeBron, so I dont see how your argument can hold any weight. Its not Nashes fault that he plays in the better conference with the better players. The cavs had the easiest road the finals in the history of the NBA. They are a horrible team

[Marcus Bryant]

& i dont care what manu does agaisnt the rest of the leauge. Look at his numbers against the cavs. what 12 a game. not gonna be enough.

Ginobili's game improved as the season went on. Get up to speed (but don't use it again).

[dbreiden83080]

z and ducan will cancel eachother out for the most part. the most that duncan could possibly put up is 30 and thats a stretch. he is good for twenty & so is z.

Wait a minute Z is avg 13.8 a game in the playoffs against bums like the Nets and the Wizzards and you are saying he will put up 20 a game against the best D team in the league and Tim Duncan. Might want to lay off the :drunk

[mardigan]

If "Z" scores 20 points a game, then the Cavs indeed have a chance.

That's not going to happen. Despite some sports writers opinions, Duncan actually plays pretty good Defense.
He scored 20 plus 9 times the whole season including playoffs. This guy is a fucking dumbass

[dbreiden83080]

& i dont care what manu does agaisnt the rest of the leauge. Look at his numbers against the cavs. what 12 a game. not gonna be enough.

Manu's sample size is not nearly enough for you to be saying he will not be a factor against the Cavs. 2005 finals, Pistons he played 4 great games against them and their D was 10 times better than what you have.

[RUSUREBOUTHAT?]

Nuggets. thats tough. Suns thanks reffs & jazz suck. I'll give u that we havent faced a team like the spurs but u are yet to face a team like cleveland in the playoffs. We play good d. U cant deny that. & could someone tell me what your plan is for james. One of u itiots said that manu's 12 points in the reg season isnt anything bc its the regular season. does that mean that james' 27 in the regular season means that he wasnt trying either? obviously he was and so was manu. Stupid comment.

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Cavs are keeping Manu and TP out of the paint then TD + Oberto are ripping their frontline a new one.

[Marcus Bryant]

Nuggets. thats tough. Suns thanks reffs & jazz suck. I'll give u that we havent faced a team like the spurs but u are yet to face a team like cleveland in the playoffs. We play good d. U cant deny that. & could someone tell me what your plan is for james. One of u itiots said that manu's 12 points in the reg season isnt anything bc its the regular season. does that mean that james' 27 in the regular season means that he wasnt trying either? obviously he was and so was manu. Stupid comment.

Huh?

[mardigan]

Nuggets. thats tough. Suns thanks reffs & jazz suck. I'll give u that we havent faced a team like the spurs but u are yet to face a team like cleveland in the playoffs. We play good d. U cant deny that. & could someone tell me what your plan is for james. One of u itiots said that manu's 12 points in the reg season isnt anything bc its the regular season. does that mean that james' 27 in the regular season means that he wasnt trying either? obviously he was and so was manu. Stupid comment.
Pretty much all you have said. Your a dumb fuck

[FromWayDowntown]

Had the Bulls beaten the Nets on the season's last evening, the Cavs would have been a 5th seed in the Eastern Conference.

[RUSUREBOUTHAT?]

But they didnt

[dbreiden83080]

We play good d. U cant deny that. & could someone tell me what your plan is for james.

What is your plan for Duncan? Double and triple team him and pray the Spurs miss open jumpers all night long.

[RUSUREBOUTHAT?]

Him Junkan is going to have a descent series only to be acclipsed by the king.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Cavs have yet to try to defend in the postseason a team with the balanced attack that the Spurs bring in the post and on the perimeter. And that's just in the halfcourt.

[RUSUREBOUTHAT?]

u dont need a plan for duncan. But since u asked z/Andy/Gooden will give him enough trouble. But duncan cant take over a game.

[mardigan]

Him Junkan is going to have a descent series only to be acclipsed by the king.
:lol And big Z is going to average 20 a game against the Spurs even though he scored 20 9 times all year right? Dumbass

[Marcus Bryant]

u dont need a plan for duncan. But since u asked z/Andy/Gooden will give him enough trouble. But duncan cant take over a game.

:dramaquee

[RUSUREBOUTHAT?]

Defensively your team does not affect lebron. the #'s speak for themselves

[mardigan]

But duncan cant take over a game.
Your on a role fuckface. I think Im going to have to put this in my sig. ANother Cav fan that doesnt watch basketball

[dbreiden83080]

u dont need a plan for duncan. But since u asked z/Andy/Gooden will give him enough trouble. But duncan cant take over a game.

:idiot :drunk

U don't need a plan for a 3 time finals MVP, i see well we are done here have a nice DAY, retard!!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nuggets. thats tough. Suns thanks reffs & jazz suck. I'll give u that we havent faced a team like the spurs but u are yet to face a team like cleveland in the playoffs. We play good d. U cant deny that. & could someone tell me what your plan is for james. One of u itiots said that manu's 12 points in the reg season isnt anything bc its the regular season. does that mean that james' 27 in the regular season means that he wasnt trying either? obviously he was and so was manu. Stupid comment.

I would imagine the same game plan as it was with Anthony or Bryant or any other scoring wingman. Ask the Suns in 05 how it went with Stoudemire averaging almost 40 points a game worked out.

Actually Denver and Cleveland are very similar in roster composition as well.
Top notch scoring small forward, outside shooting off guard, scrappy big off the bench with Najera/Varejao. AI is a better player than Hughes adn I would be hardpressed to choose between Nene/Camby and Gooden/ilgauskas. George karl or Mike Brown? Heck if JR Smith had played like Gibson off the bench maybe they would have gotten to a 6th game with us.

[Marcus Bryant]

I would imagine the same game plan as it was with Anthony or Bryant or any other scoring wingman. Ask the Suns in 05 how it went with Stoudemire averaging almost 40 points a game worked out.

Actually Denver and Cleveland are very similar in roster composition as well.
Top notch scoring small forward, outside shooting off guard, scrappy big off the bench with Najera/Varejao. AI is a better player than Hughes adn I would be hardpressed to choose between Nene/Camby and Gooden/ilgauskas. George karl or Mike Brown? Heck if JR Smith had played like Gibson off the bench maybe they would have gotten to a 6th game with us.

I'd also posit that the Nuggets frontline was a much tougher matchup for the Spurs. And then there was that AI guy in the backcourt.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

u dont need a plan for duncan. But since u asked z/Andy/Gooden will give him enough trouble. But duncan cant take over a game.

See this is what i find funny. One of the best perimeter defenders in the league can accomplish nothing against James yet three guys whose defense at best would be described as scrappy are going to give Duncan trouble.

Im going to start calling Cavs fans the KoolAid Gang.

[mardigan]

Nene/Camby>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Z/Gooden

[dbreiden83080]

Nene/Camby>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Z/Gooden

By a lot they are both talented and physical, Camby was D player of the year Tim pretty much had his way but the Cavs fans think Z and Gooden will give Duncan serious trouble. :ihit

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs had to cover two dominant perimeter scoring threats at the same time against the Nuggets yet somehow James by himself provides a tougher cover?

:crackpipe

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'd also posit that the Nuggets frontline was a much tougher matchup for the Spurs. And then there was that AI guy in the backcourt.

Very true Nene is much better low post defender than anyone the Cavs have and Camby is one of the better shotblockers in the league. The Cavs have adequate low post defenders and no shot blocker.

With the flopping of the Cavs bigs i definitely see Parker taking a lot of teardrops this series when they rotate in time.

[dbreiden83080]

The Spurs had to cover two dominant perimeter scoring threats at the same time against the Nuggets yet somehow James by himself provides a tougher cover?

:crackpipe

That is why i was laughing so hard at the ESPN crews this morning saying this is a cover they have never seen before and will be a real problem for them. So essentially they are saying that Lebron is better than AI and Melo combined. Better than Amare and Nash combined, better than Boozer and Williams combined, this is just getting silly.

[Extra Stout]

See this is what i find funny. One of the best perimeter defenders in the league can accomplish nothing against James yet three guys whose defense at best would be described as scrappy are going to give Duncan trouble.

Im going to start calling Cavs fans the KoolAid Gang.
Well, if they look at it rationally, it's hard to have hope.

[mardigan]

Well, if they look at it rationally, it's hard to have hope.
You mean that Z wont average 20 points a game against the Spurs? :lol

[BeerIsGood!]

z and ducan will cancel eachother out for the most part. the most that duncan could possibly put up is 30 and thats a stretch. he is good for twenty & so is z. second off Sasha and finley will cancell eachother out. both are good role players but neither can take over a game. Parker will have the advantage over hughes going into tonight, but i think larrys size will give him a little bit of a problem. Gibson and manu r a wash. :lmao manu just doesnt put up numbers on the cavaliers.


They cant rely on nash to take over a game.


I was just noting that none of San Antonio's opponents in the playoffs thus far are any good on defense.


Duncan may be "better" according to Spurs fans, I myself would call them equally great, however whereas Duncan is focused on playing in the post 75% of the time, James is all over the court so he can have a larger impact on the game.


u dont need a plan for duncan. But since u asked z/Andy/Gooden will give him enough trouble. But duncan cant take over a game.


:dizzy

[mardigan]

z and ducan will cancel eachother out for the most part.
How did that Z scoring 20 a game work out?


The answer to the question "How good is the Cavs Defense?" would be "Better than the Spurs." The other acceptable answer would be "Statistically the Best in the Playoffs."
:lol My two favorite posters. You two guys dont know shit

[mardigan]

Nuggets. thats tough. Suns thanks reffs & jazz suck. I'll give u that we havent faced a team like the spurs but u are yet to face a team like cleveland in the playoffs. We play good d. U cant deny that. & could someone tell me what your plan is for james. One of u itiots said that manu's 12 points in the reg season isnt anything bc its the regular season. does that mean that james' 27 in the regular season means that he wasnt trying either? obviously he was and so was manu. Stupid comment.
:lol This post cracks me up

[Obstructed_View]

If that was great defense by the Cavs, I certainly hope they keep it up. Praying that the Spurs miss jumpers is one thing, but praying they blow layups is another.