The High School Exit Exam

[NorCal510]

If a student doesnt pass it, do you think they should be able to get their diploma?

Knowing my smartness, I easily passed. I see people who complain about how they shouldn't be judged on one test, but the test is so easy a caveman can pass! They must be fuckin retarded, exceptions to those who don't speak english and can't pass the english part of the test.

What do ya'll spurstalk homies think?

[Leetonidas]

Well, if it is one of the exams you study for all year long, then yeah, I think the diploma shouldn't be handed out if you fail. That's really the entire reason behind it. If you don't pass, you obviously have learned and fail as a High School student.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No pass, no walk. It's part of the problem with society today. People cry that everyone should have everything handed to them.

What kind of a message does it send to HSers as far as the rest of their lives go when you are saying 'well, even though you flunked this test we've been getting you ready for all year, we'll let you graduate because we don't want to hurt your feelings.'

Time for the pussification of America to stop.

[ashbeeigh]

It's a huge debate and a very emotional topic, at least in Texas. I only had to take the TAAS test and still felt the stress of it. However, now with the TAKS (or is it TEEKS?) where you have to pass all he subjects to graduate it's so stressful. On top of that, the teachers "teach to the test" with no leeway to teach to their own liking. While I was training to teach bible study a few weeks ago we talked about different styles of learning and how these tests only test a few types of learning styles, mainly the verbal and mathametic types of learners, not the independent, musical, or intra-relational learners. That's where the argument for these types of tests for everyone falls flat, in my opinion, Not everyone learns in the same style and cannot prosper, educationally.

That being said, a rule is a rule, and if it is there it shouls be followed. I remember a while back there was a segment on WAOI about a girl in Natalia that was able to graduate because they changed the rule about walking the stage after the handbook had been past out. That's a fair excuse, but if the handbook says you have to pass the test o graduate you have to pass the test...no matter how many times it takes you to pass it. No matter how hard it is. Even if I don't like the rules. You're a student, and if you don't follow the rules you should be punished.

[ploto]

I hate teaching to a test, though, and so many places that is what it has turned into. These tests are supposed to be MINIMUM standards but they have basically become the entire curriculum.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sorry, I just don't buy the whole learning styles argument.

When a kid graduates high school, they should be able to write a sentence with a subject and a verb. They should know that we have a moon for planet Earth. They should know and be able to list the three legislative branches. They should be able to write a coherent summary of a couple of paragraphs, add 2+2, etc.

If they don't, they aren't going to make it very far in life. *shrugs*

[FromWayDowntown]

When a kid graduates high school, they should be able to write a sentence with a subject and a verb.

I'd love to see better noun-pronoun agreement as well.

:)


They should know and be able to list the three legislative branches.

To go along with the Executive and the Judicial branches?

:)


If they don't, they aren't going to make it very far in life. *shrugs*

I don't know that the way to ensure that kids are learning all that they should in public schools lies in standardized testing. Standardized tests tend to set minimums that many are happy to achieve without any concern for seeking maximums. I think a major problem with public education now is that many educators make passing those tests -- i.e., achieving those minimums -- the end-all and be-all of teaching. That's terribly problematic, I think. Kids are tought that there is always a single answer to every question, but life has a way of quickly demonstrating that success is frequently found by ignoring that notion and finding new and unique solutions. That requires critical thought, which is frequently discouraged by standardized testing.

While I think that students should demonstrate a simple modicum of acquired knowledge and skills before graduating, I'm generally opposed to any belief that a standardized test demonstrates that achievement.

[Flea]

I don't buy the "teaching to the test" because good school districts don't use that as an excuse. I have 3 kids and soon to be 4 kids in the public school system. I have heard some teachers complain about having to teach to the test but my kids have had some wonderful teachers who don't. There is still room for creativity. I have two good friends, one moved to Dallas from California two years ago and is a public school teacher. She loves the Taks because she came from a state where there was no accountability. I have another friend who lived in Oklahoma and just recently moved to Florida. She was appalled at how little her child was learning in her school district, absolutely no science and again, no accountability.

[Flea]

I don't know that the way to ensure that kids are learning all that they should in public schools lies in standardized testing. Standardized tests tend to set minimums that many are happy to achieve without any concern for seeking maximums. I think a major problem with public education now is that many educators make passing those tests -- i.e., achieving those minimums -- the end-all and be-all of teaching. That's terribly problematic, I think. Kids are tought that there is always a single answer to every question, but life has a way of quickly demonstrating that success is frequently found by ignoring that notion and finding new and unique solutions. That requires critical thought, which is frequently discouraged by standardized testing.

While I think that students should demonstrate a simple modicum of acquired knowledge and skills before graduating, I'm generally opposed to any belief that a standardized test demonstrates that achievement.


I think today's taks requires higher critical thinking.

[ashbeeigh]

Sorry, I just don't buy the whole learning styles argument.


Google "Gardner Multiple Learning Styles." Different styles doesn't mean they don't learn the same things, it just means they learn them in different ways.

[Bear Grylls]

Sorry, I just don't buy the whole learning styles argument.

When a kid graduates high school, they should be able to write a sentence with a subject and a verb. They should know that we have a moon for planet Earth. They should know and be able to list the three legislative branches. They should be able to write a coherent summary of a couple of paragraphs, add 2+2, etc.

If they don't, they aren't going to make it very far in life. *shrugs*



What are the three legislative branches?

I know the legislative branch consists of congress which has two chambers(House and Senate), but I dont know of the three legislative branches.

[sa_butta]

The teachers get alot of stress as well because they get pressure if not enough students are passing these tests. My Dad is a teacher and feels the heat every year around test time. He teaches special ed and some these students are still required to take and pass the test. Imagine trying to teach some kids that, when they cant even answer simple questions.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What are the three legislative branches?

I know the legislative branch consists of congress which has two chambers(House and Senate), but I dont know of the three legislative branches.

Yeah, I meant to say the two legislative branches (House, Senate) and three branches of government (executive, legislative, and judicial). I was in the middle of a phone call when typing that :lol


Kids are tought that there is always a single answer to every question, but life has a way of quickly demonstrating that success is frequently found by ignoring that notion and finding new and unique solutions. That requires critical thought, which is frequently discouraged by standardized testing.


That's a good point and one that I can agree with you on. I guess I just see too many folks out in the real world who can't balance a check book, don't understand how financing works when working on a big purchase, that kind of thing that I feel the math is important.

I worked at BB while in college, and I lost track of the number of times someone would come in looking to buy a computer or TV and you'd be there for 30 minutes trying to explain to them how financing worked. Just imagine if they were in a situation with a dishonest salesman (like buying a car)...

And in the real world, basic communication is very important. Sometimes I just shake my head when receiving correspondence from clients, some of whom are elected officials, that don't know what a paragraph is or how to put more than one of them in a letter. Or that will write emails that are so damn confusing that you have to call them and get them to decipher it for you, that kind of thing.

I work with employees of clients who can barely read and write that have HS diplomas. These are all things I feel that you should be able to do when you graduate HS.

[T Park]

Students in high school need to be given more real life classes.

"How to manage your finances."

Instead of horseshit classes like the History of 18th century art.

Give me a break.

[ashbeeigh]

Students in high school need to be given more real life classes.

"How to manage your finances."



Everyone is required to take a semester of something like that to graduate. That stuff isn't on the tests, though. It seems to me that they think students should be able to figure that out if they can draw and translate a probabala without any problems.

[Extra Stout]

Kids are tought that there is always a single answer to every question, but life has a way of quickly demonstrating that success is frequently found by ignoring that notion and finding new and unique solutions. That requires critical thought, which is frequently discouraged by standardized testing.
Call me pessimistic or elitist, but I don't believe that more than a third of the population will ever be capable of critical thought.

[FromWayDowntown]

Yeah, I meant to say the two legislative branches (House, Senate) and three branches of government (executive, legislative, and judicial). I was in the middle of a phone call when typing that :lol

I know. I wasn't trying to rip on you, but I thought that I couldn't resist the opportunity . . . . It's not often that anyone catches you in something like that; I had to do it.

:)


That's a good point and one that I can agree with you on. I guess I just see too many folks out in the real world who can't balance a check book, don't understand how financing works when working on a big purchase, that kind of thing that I feel the math is important.

I worked at BB while in college, and I lost track of the number of times someone would come in looking to buy a computer or TV and you'd be there for 30 minutes trying to explain to them how financing worked. Just imagine if they were in a situation with a dishonest salesman (like buying a car)...

And in the real world, basic communication is very important. Sometimes I just shake my head when receiving correspondence from clients, some of whom are elected officials, that don't know what a paragraph is or how to put more than one of them in a letter. Or that will write emails that are so damn confusing that you have to call them and get them to decipher it for you, that kind of thing.

I work with employees of clients who can barely read and write that have HS diplomas. These are all things I feel that you should be able to do when you graduate HS.

Undoubtedly, there is some balance that is necessary between learning basic life skills and indulging in higher cognitive efforts. I don't dispute that there is room for both teaching basics and for doing better than that. I would argue, in part at least, that part of the reason that there are such problems in our society stems from the fact that our public education system encourages the graduation of more rather than less students and that frequently causes the graduation of kids who don't have a clue about much of anything. Short of some sort of punitive measures taken against those who choose not to value an education, I'm not sure what can truly be done about it. Even mandating the passage of standardized tests won't ensure that graduates have actually learned anything; kids that don't want to learn or who don't value education will leave school whether they graduate or not and whether they've passed TAKS or not.

Frankly, I think that standardized testing has lead to a general dumbing down of our society. Like Extra Stout, I suppose that might make me sound elitist (or actually make me an elitist) but if I have a 1 in 4 chance of getting an answer right and I need only reach a relatively low threshold score to pass the test, I stand a fighting chance to pass without learning much. I also think that standardized testing tends to encourage short-term retention of knowledge (basically from rote) rather than mandating that students learn how to work through problems with critical thought to find a solution that isn't one among 4 choices. It's part and parcel of the system we've created. What bothers me about it is that it seems that educators, executives, and legislators all seem to think that the solution to the problem is more standardized testing. I maintain that standardized testing, while occasionally useful, is basically a significant root of the problem.

[StylisticS]

I'm with you, FromWayDowntown.

How about we teach the students Algebra,History, and Science and make such an emphasis on teaching those courses and passing them at the end of a semester. Standardized tests are STUPID and it hurts the state of Texas. The state is 50th in the nation in dropout rates. That is unacceptable. It was sad seeing how far advance kids on the East Coast was compared to the kids here in Texas. Most Texas kids do not learn what matrices are until the 11th grade when they are taught that in Algebra 2. But kids in Maryland and New York are taught matrices in the 9th grade. The work they showed us would embarass Texans. The reason is because they make an emphasis on the courses, not a test.

In Texas, they are too busy teaching kids the TAAS in the middle of Algebra or Geometry class. If you failed the TAAS in middle school, you can't take Algebra, you have to take TAAS Math. It's stupid. Then they wonder why kids do not perform at a high level on the TASP. Well that's because most kids had the TAAS now the TAKS thrown down their throats and can't perform all the work that is require to have a decent score on the TASP.

It's a touchy feeling for me because I always thought it was unfair how administered a test to students that even teachers had a hard time passing. All states have standardized tests though. But the Northeast does not put an emphasis on them like the South does.

[T Park]

What bothers me about it is that it seems that educators, executives, and legislators all seem to think that the solution to the problem is more standardized testing. I maintain that standardized testing, while occasionally useful, is basically a significant root of the problem.

That and don't forget the always obvious fixer.

"Throw more money at it"

[j-6]

I don't blame the state for at least trying to hold their schools to a certain standard. I blame the parents that don't stress life education enough in the home. Turn off the TV and go teach your kid how to do something. Make them get a part-time job so at least they understand the value of a dollar. Take away the cell phone and talk about the state of the world.

Otherwise, you're going to have a 23-year old sloth on your couch eating Cheetos in five years after high school that just got fired from Red Lobster. And your immigrant neighbor's kid is sitting for the CPA exam.

[Extra Stout]

What bothers me about it is that it seems that educators, executives, and legislators all seem to think that the solution to the problem is more standardized testing. I maintain that standardized testing, while occasionally useful, is basically a significant root of the problem.
Call me cynical, but I think a public school system that crafts young people into cognitive engines is an impossible dream for all but the most well-prepared and brightest students today.

The reality is an imploded social fabric wherein the majority of students lack the stable home environment, much less the discipline, to learn even rote knowledge, and where many educators and administrators are more interested in just collecting a paycheck, or reaping the benefits of patronage, than being educators, whether that be because they are doing it for the wrong reasons, or because they are numbed by the reality that the children they are tasked to teach are already too far gone.

The purpose of standardized testing is to provide some minimum line across which to drag these poorly-prepared students, through a highly structured environment with lots of feedback to identify and provide additional resources to low performers, and then to provide some objective means of accountability as to how well schools are accomplishing that. The downside is that everyone gets lumped into this scheme, even the high performers, whose creativity and freedom of thought can get stifled, and who can readily get bored.

The only way to start to implement what you suggest, without incurring widespread failure so much as to get out of high school among the socioeconomic lower half of the country, would be to institute a two-tiered education system like some other countries have.

For the time being, that remains politically untenable, but given the stark contrast between the legend of the American Dream, and the reality of hardening socioeconomic stratification in this country, that could change. Right now, everyone holds onto the ideal that everyone should have an equal chance to become a brain surgeon, but it's getting to the point where a lot of people will be happy just for their kids to get the skills necessary for any kind of decent job.

[ashbeeigh]

I don't blame the state for at least trying to hold their schools to a certain standard. I blame the parents that don't stress life education enough in the home. Turn off the TV and go teach your kid how to do something. Make them get a part-time job so at least they understand the value of a dollar. Take away the cell phone and talk about the state of the world.

Otherwise, you're going to have a 23-year old sloth on your couch eating Cheetos in five years after high school that just got fired from Red Lobster. And your immigrant neighbor's kid is sitting for the CPA exam.

That may be your position and you're entitled to your opinion. But it's not just the parents fault. There's no single cause and parents can't be completely held responsible, either. That's just plain ignorant to say that. My parents took my little sister out of public school because of these tests. She's not watching tv every day and she's looking for a job as we speak. True, some children do need some more parental involvement in their lives and it saddens me to think they don't know where Iraq is and who George W. Bush is, but some adults don't know that stuff either. And that goes back to thinking critically and what ES said. There are schools for a reason, to teach. Parents can't do everything, even if they think they can.

[j-6]

That may be your position and you're entitled to your opinion. But it's not just the parents fault. There's no single cause and parents can't be completely held responsible, either. That's just plain ignorant to say that. My parents took my little sister out of public school because of these tests. She's not watching tv every day and she's looking for a job as we speak. True, some children do need some more parental involvement in their lives and it saddens me to think they don't know where Iraq is and who George W. Bush is, but some adults don't know that stuff either. And that goes back to thinking critically and what ES said. There are schools for a reason, to teach. Parents can't do everything, even if they think they can.

You're way off base. Are you trying to tell me that parents aren't completely responsible for their children's education in the same paragraph that stated that your own family yanked your sister out of school?

Over an achievement test?

They're your kids. If you want smart offspring, teach them. If you want to rely on the Texas public school system, then you get what you get. Isn't that where the home schooling movement came from? There's no reason that learning should stop when the bell rings at 3:30.

[ashbeeigh]

You're way off base. Are you trying to tell me that parents aren't completely responsible for their children's education in the same paragraph that stated that your own family yanked your sister out of school?

Over an achievement test?
They're your kids. If you want smart offspring, teach them. If you want to rely on the Texas public school system, then you get what you get. Isn't that where the home schooling movement came from? There's no reason that learning should stop when the bell rings at 3:30.

I never said learning should stop at 3:30 or whenever school ends. I was just staing that it's not at the hands of the parents all the time, and that probably wasn't clear. Sorry about that. That's why there are schools.

And as for the parents being in charge of the child's education, my parents have the ability to take her out of school and to work with her and for her to achieve in a different way. For other children who struggle with testing and pressures, such as children in poverty or those who have parents who can't be at home with their children (my mother stays at home), they have to deal with the Texas school system and all that comes along with it (funding, testing, teaching, apathetic teaching, etc.)

[BacktoBasics]

For other children who struggle with testing and pressures, such as children in poverty
This is what I have a real problem with. Going back to the pussification of America that I and a few others here have been preaching. When you take these kids and tell them that they are struggling and then put them in a different invironment (an easier invironment) to help them find some success you enable these kids. You teach them that adapting and overcoming can be avoided by simply changing the scenery.

Its like a video game. You just drop it down to "novice" or "rookie" rather than finding a way to get good enough to beat "all-star" or "superstar". You effectively become a talented loser or underachiever and its somehow warped into false success by rewarding our youth for being successful on the lower levels rather than pushing their mediocrity into something better.

I just really feel like our society is hell bent on making provisions for the smallest of weaknesses. I'm not saying "suck it up" to everyone but at some point we can't just sit back and roll out the red carpet for everyone, we're breeding failure by doing that.

With all that said I don't believe the standardized test are valuable. When you have honor role students not graduate because of TAKS there is clearly some kind of teaching flaw in the system. I'm really sick of seeing this. Its needs to be more of a cumulative assestment done over the 4 years.

[NorCal510]

Students in high school need to be given more real life classes.

"How to manage your finances."

Instead of horseshit classes like the History of 18th century art.

Give me a break.
for once, i agree with tpark

what good is calculus gonna do... at least the big formulas where all you have to do is memorize where to put the numbers and such.

and chemistry, wtf?

how about like what tpark said, how to manage your finances

school is sometimes a waste

[TheSanityAnnex]

what good is calculus gonna do... at least the big formulas where all you have to do is memorize where to put the numbers and such.

Hmmmmmmm.......I don't know, maybe help calculate current trends in our economy. But hey, who needs to know that useless crap.

[NorCal510]

Hmmmmmmm.......I don't know, maybe help calculate current trends in our economy. But hey, who needs to know that useless crap.
goddamn tsa do you read anything?

like this

http://www.gnome.org/projects/ooo/screenshots/math-small.png

will that help you calculate current trends in our economy? and if it does, will you remember that formula and use it often?

[BacktoBasics]

for once, i agree with tpark

what good is calculus gonna do... at least the big formulas where all you have to do is memorize where to put the numbers and such.

and chemistry, wtf?

how about like what tpark said, how to manage your finances

school is sometimes a waste
The idea is for you to be educated in all areas. Being well rounded has big advantages.

[ashbeeigh]

This is what I have a real problem with. Going back to the pussification of America that I and a few others here have been preaching.

Understandable, and like I said with j-6, I won't say you're wrong. However, there are people who, no matter how hard they try, no matter what changes, nothing will help them pass these tests I mean, if some people can get through it why can't everyone else? Because everyone thinks differently and not everyone works the same way. That's what I've been saying the whole time.

[Extra Stout]

I never said learning should stop at 3:30 or whenever school ends. I was just staing that it's not at the hands of the parents all the time, and that probably wasn't clear. Sorry about that. That's why there are schools.

And as for the parents being in charge of the child's education, my parents have the ability to take her out of school and to work with her and for her to achieve in a different way. For other children who struggle with testing and pressures, such as children in poverty or those who have parents who can't be at home with their children (my mother stays at home), they have to deal with the Texas school system and all that comes along with it (funding, testing, teaching, apathetic teaching, etc.)
I wish the biggest problem with poverty in education were parents who wished they could get involved but couldn't.

My experience is that families in poverty place zero priority on education unless the parents are immigrants.

[Extra Stout]

for once, i agree with tpark

what good is calculus gonna do... at least the big formulas where all you have to do is memorize where to put the numbers and such.

and chemistry, wtf?

how about like what tpark said, how to manage your finances

school is sometimes a waste
I predict this guy is going to be a marketing major.

[ashbeeigh]

I wish the biggest problem with poverty in education were parents who wished they could get involved but couldn't.

It's one of the the many, many problems.

[Extra Stout]

Understandable, and like I said with j-6, I won't say you're wrong. However, there are people who, no matter how hard they try, no matter what changes, nothing will help them pass these tests I mean, if some people can get through it why can't everyone else? Because everyone thinks differently and not everyone works the same way. That's what I've been saying the whole time.
Two-tiered education system. Kids who aren't cut out for college get vocational training. It takes a cultural change to get there.

[FromWayDowntown]

Two-tiered education system. Kids who aren't cut out for college get vocational training. It takes a cultural change to get there.

It would beat the hell out of the one-size-fits-all public education that is currently available. But, you're right that it won't happen in the foreseeable future -- at least until government runs out of standardized testing ideas.

[NorCal510]

I predict this guy is going to be a marketing major.
you should take ms. cleo's job because i am interested in business

[Jekka]

Instead of horseshit classes like the History of 18th century art.

Give me a break.
Oh yes, God forbid we give students the opportunity to learn about culture in what I guarantee would be an elective class since the majority of the few basic art programs that are left teach fucking "perspective" and "shading" year after year to the same students. In fact, I would love to hear that high school students had the option to take a class like that, but I know that the vast majority does not.

I will be the first person to say that I SUCK at timed tests/multiple choice/etc, but it was classes like art history, conceptual art, and other electives that reinforced critical thought and helped me to better cope with testing.

[SpursWoman]

I loved 18th century art ... I took art history in college and it was fantastic. :tu

[E20]

for once, i agree with tpark

what good is calculus gonna do... at least the big formulas where all you have to do is memorize where to put the numbers and such.

and chemistry, wtf?

how about like what tpark said, how to manage your finances

school is sometimes a waste
You don't have to take Calculus, it's an elective not a required course. It's good for critical problem solving. If you can do an advanced Calculus problem it shows that you can put the time and effort to sit down and solve any kind of problem. Engineers, Doctors, Astronomers, Computer Programmers, Technicians all take Calculus and other advanced Math courses it's a good stepping stone to be able to solve problems in stressful situations. You won't have to use Calc to predict trends, that's basic alebra -- graphs/lines/curves etc.

Chemistry, like Calculus is not required, but it offers so much.

On the HS test, I had to take that piece of shit, it was pretty easy and I mean a little too easy. It was easy enough for people who had no use for a diploma to pass. I agree with AHF's standpoint, that's the only opnion I read in this thread that was long.

[E20]

http://www.gnome.org/projects/ooo/screenshots/math-small.png
That reads:
You're integrating from b to a. F(X) is the function of X, they'll give you a forumla, multiplied by the dx (derivative of x). I don't know what the colon is for and F of theta, I guess it's asking for the derivative of the function if theta were pluggined into it or something. Then you multiply everything by -1.

[ALVAREZ6]

I wish chemistry were optional...I have an honors chem final on monday that I haven't studied for and I fucking hate chemistry.

[NorCal510]

You don't have to take Calculus, it's an elective not a required course. It's good for critical problem solving. If you can do an advanced Calculus problem it shows that you can put the time and effort to sit down and solve any kind of problem. Engineers, Doctors, Astronomers, Computer Programmers, Technicians all take Calculus and other advanced Math courses it's a good stepping stone to be able to solve problems in stressful situations. You won't have to use Calc to predict trends, that's basic alebra -- graphs/lines/curves etc.

Chemistry, like Calculus is not required, but it offers so much.

On the HS test, I had to take that piece of shit, it was pretty easy and I mean a little too easy. It was easy enough for people who had no use for a diploma to pass. I agree with AHF's standpoint, that's the only opnion I read in this thread that was long.
chemistry is required from where im from, and thats bs. its the class with the highest failure percentage

my class average is a D...

[NorCal510]

http://www.gnome.org/projects/ooo/screenshots/math-small.png
That reads:
You're integrating from b to a. F(X) is the function of X, they'll give you a forumla, multiplied by the dx (derivative of x). I don't know what the colon is for and F of theta, I guess it's asking for the derivative of the function if theta were pluggined into it or something. Then you multiply everything by -1.
you know your stuff

basically you plug the number on top of the squiggly line into the thing in front of dx which is just there for nothing. then you plug the bottom number into the thing in front of dx, and subtract the first outcome by the second.

basic calc. bs that isnt used in life

[E20]

chemistry is required from where im from, and thats bs. its the class with the highest failure percentage

my class average is a D...
We're both in Cali and where I'm from you need two years of science to graduate: 1 Life and 1 Physical. You HAVE take Biology so your Life Science is covered, the physical science is: Physics, Chemistry, or Earth Science (8th grade science), so essentially in my school district you can take Biology which is a pretty easy class and just say your dumb and take Earth Science to cover you Science criteria and graduate.

I took Chemistry Honors my sophomore year and it was supposdly the hardest science class at my school and the teacher give hard tests out, I got a B first semster and worked harder and got an A second semester. I was a good kid until towards the end months of my Jr. year where I stopped caring and it lowered some of my grades down.

[mrsmaalox]

I'm with you, FromWayDowntown.

How about we teach the students Algebra,History, and Science and make such an emphasis on teaching those courses and passing them at the end of a semester. Standardized tests are STUPID and it hurts the state of Texas. The state is 50th in the nation in dropout rates. That is unacceptable. It was sad seeing how far advance kids on the East Coast was compared to the kids here in Texas. Most Texas kids do not learn what matrices are until the 11th grade when they are taught that in Algebra 2. But kids in Maryland and New York are taught matrices in the 9th grade. The work they showed us would embarass Texans. The reason is because they make an emphasis on the courses, not a test.




You know, I don't think drop out rates are an accurate indicator of the success (or lack there of) of standardized testing. In a state where 50% of the population lives below the national poverty level, there are so many more factors. A large immigrant population brings up cultural differences where education does not have the same value as in other cultures. The state has nothing to do with that. I venture to guess that New Mexico, Arizona, and Calif. are up there in drop out rates too.
my kids were educated in Maryland from K to 3rd and 5th grades. My 3rd kid was in a private school so we won't count him. Their school ranked 13th in the state's standardized testing (there are about 13 school districts in Baltimore alone). Both kids had straight A's in their courses (the oldest was in the gifted program). They both had commendable results on the state test. Then we moved toTexas; their grades in math began to drop quickly.
The teachers all told me my kids lacked basic fundamental math skills. What!?! I had them privately tested...my kids could not multiply!!!! Talk about a shocker!!. And guess what? The school couselor in the committee that handled my kids learning problems says, "You know what? This is not the first time I hear this. There was a family last year with the exact problems". So she left to check their file and what state did they come from? MARYLAND!!!! I don't care what any study says, my personal experiences are what I believe. The east is NOT better.

[TDMVPDPOY]

some ppl are not bookworms but are good in the workforce, thats the difference

i can kill assignments if i put the effort into it, just the preperation and stuff.

exams you tend to choke cose its not open book and shit, and you sometimes dont know wtf they are going to test you on, you can study all the hard questions and they probably test you on easy questions and fuck you up.

i just had my auditing exam on thursday last week, lets just i say i killed my assignment, i went through the structure and guidelines, but the fuck up thing is the cunt who marks your papers, sometimes they want more out of you instead of straight up answers, they wanted a broader answer from another situation etc...i ended up barely passing the assignment....yeh thats fuckn right this subject is 70% failure rate for everyone.

back to my auditing exam, i killed it, they tested on all easy questions which was pretty much common sense, just the writing up part is kinda fuckd up cause i had to get at least 50/100 just to pass the damn subject and i was under the pump, i make love to pressure.

my last one is this wednesday, commercial law is a fuckn biatch with the structure and referencing of case studies.......

some ppl are good on assignments but choke in exams.....

1st year of uni = new students will do well due to motivation and shit
2nd year and last year = students will tend to get to lax in the environment and lose all that motivation, its make or break in those years and this is where they test your patience...and high drop rates.

[ploto]

It is a combination of factors, obviously, but the job of the school is to set the standards. But for years that has not happened. There are Honors students who graduate from certain districts in San Antonio who have to take remedial classes at community colleges because they don't have the basic math and English skills for freshman level coursework. There are students whose parents have no clue of the low level of their achievement because they bring home A's and B's. It has even moved into college courses, as well. More than one professor has told me-- what used to be a C is now a B and what used to be a B is now an A. I could not figure out how on earth I could get 100's on papers in grad school! Now I know-- what used to be an A is now a 100. My middle school teachers would not even give a 100 on a paper but all these years later I get them in grad school.

[ploto]

http://www.gnome.org/projects/ooo/screenshots/math-small.png
That reads:
You're integrating from b to a. F(X) is the function of X, they'll give you a forumla, multiplied by the dx (derivative of x).
Actually that's the integral of a to b.

[ploto]

Three legislative branches-- municipal, state, and federal. :D

[TDMVPDPOY]

you know all those hard subjects they make you learn in highschool is not even applicable to society, it all depends on what you should pick the elective which will lead you to the career you want or a approach to it b4 you head into uni/college to do that same shit again.

[E20]

Actually that's the integral of a to b.
You are integerating from B to A, they give you two numbers in coordinate form. (2(a),3(b)) and you first plug in 3 for the function then plug in 2 for that function and subtract it, so it's actually from B to A.

EDIT Technically you are right, but for the sake of simplicity and avoidance of confusion most teachers and people in general will say integrate from B to A, since it's TOP minus BOTTOM and B is on top.

[Nbadan]

Welcome to intergral calculus.

Calculus is used mostly to calculate the rate of decay. Everything decays over time.

Personally, I feel that Pre-cal is important. Most college majors only require Algebra2, but I don't see how you can be an successful exec in today's world without Calculus.

[Nbadan]

..and I think almost everyone (99%) is capable of learning math with enough practice.

Also, parents play a big part in whether their kids will be successful in a hard science. If you've had Cal. or above, then it's very likely that your kids will take at least Cal.

[ploto]

You are integerating from B to A, they give you two numbers in coordinate form. (2(a),3(b)) and you first plug in 3 for the function then plug in 2 for that function and subtract it, so it's actually from B to A.

EDIT Technically you are right, but for the sake of simplicity and avoidance of confusion most teachers and people in general will say integrate from B to A, since it's TOP minus BOTTOM and B is on top.
There is no TECHNICALLY- it is the integral from a to b. Any teacher who says it the other way is wrong. Maybe this is indicative of the educational system. Or maybe your teacher does not understand calculus well enough to be teaching it.

[Nbadan]

:clap

Intergral calculus is used to find the area under the curve of two points, thus the diff between points b to a.