PDA

View Full Version : Article on Kobe for thoughts?



Rummpd
12-02-2004, 07:14 PM
Kobe shows he's no Michael

December 2, 2004

BY GREG COUCH SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Kobe Bryant made a three-pointer, and held his fingers to his lips. Shhh, he was telling Bulls fans at the United Center, mocking them. Bryant was taking over the game Wednesday night for the Lakers. He was going to come back, shut up the crowd and beat the Bulls all by himself, the way he likes it. In trouble, his teammates had asked him to do it, he said.



"I responded,'' Bryant said. "I got it back to a two-point game. Just couldn't close it off.''

What? He responded, but couldn't what? The Bulls beat the Lakers 92-84, and Bryant did have 28 points. But if Michael Jordan had been in Bryant's shoes, he would have won the game. And if he didn't, he wouldn't have said he responded, but couldn't close it off. In MJ speak, responding meant closing it off.

Bryant has always walked like a Jordan, talked like a Jordan, flown like a Jordan.

But he ain't Jordan. Truth is, Kobe isn't even Kobe anymore. He's some unlikable guy who scores points on a non-descript team.

"I'll take the criticism and whatever for losses,'' he said. "I want my teammates relaxed and able to play freely.''

Teammates? It's "supporting cast,'' Kobe. Supporting cast!

You should have heard the reaction from the upper deck when they introduced him. Actually, you couldn't have heard it because the deck was half-empty. The boos must have been coming from below. They weren't the passionate boos for an arch enemy, but rather the kind from fans doing it out of duty.

Usually, when we point out open seats or unhappy fans at Bulls games, it is a condemnation of the local dynasty lost. This disinterest was pointed directly at Bryant, a superstar who threw himself away. It's not even an event when he's here anymore.

Well, this is what he always wanted, a team to call his own. And by that, I mean a team with no one stealing his light. It's his ball, his game and he sent everyone else home. He won a power play over Shaquille O'Neal and Phil Jackson, and now he leads the league in scoring.

And the Lakers are 9-7. With a loss to the Bulls.

"It's not the end of the world,'' said Lakers coach Rudy Tomjanovich, Jackson's replacement.

In Lamar Odom, Bryant has his Scottie Pippen. He has his supporting cast. Now, it's time to see if he is who he thinks he is.

"He has wanted to be in this situation and he has prepared himself for it,'' said Laker Brian Cook, the former Illini player. "He's working with us more than he used to, just being more involved with all he guys. Hanging out with the guys more.

"He's been a great leader. Now we're start to mesh.''

What a strange thing to hear the Lakers talk about starting to mesh. Bryant has thrown this thing away all by himself, through selfishness and paranoia.

Obsessed with himself



Excerpts from Jackson's new book ran in SI.com recently, and showed Bryant's obsession with himself and with Shaq. Jackson pinned their feud on Bryant.

Jackson wrote that Kobe didn't return his calls after a woman in Colorado accused Bryant of rape. Eventually, charges were dropped, but Bryant spent last season playing under the pressure of the charges and notoriety. The Lakers decided to pay for Bryant's private flights to Colorado for his court dates, but, Jackson wrote, "Kobe was unhappy with the type of plane that was selected; he wanted one with higher status.''

When Bryant finally did talk to Jackson, he said "I'm not going to take any [deleted] from Shaq this year. If he starts saying things in the press, I'll fire back. I'm not afraid to go up against him. I've had it.''

Eventually, Jackson knew he couldn't coach Bryant anymore, and Bryant said he wouldn't play with Shaq anymore.

Back to ground zero



Bryant has to prove himself all over again. He has to figure out how to include teammates, though he's shooting way too much now. He has to figure out how to get his supporting cast playing hard, and not letting them loaf, as they did against the Bulls.

If he can do it, he is who he thinks he is. If not, it's because Shaq isn't there.

My money's on the second one.

We used to wonder which one made the Lakers go, Shaq or Kobe. Truth is, it was two great players coming together and producing more than they could have separately. Foreign in today's sportsworld, it's called teamwork. And at that level, teamwork was magic.

In the final two minutes, Bryant missed a three-pointer, and then committed an over-and-back violation, giving the Bulls the ball and the win.

He couldn't close it off. But at least he responded.


Letters to our sports columnists appear Sunday. Send e-mail to [email protected]. Include your full name, hometown and a daytime phone number.


http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg021.html

Let this speak for itself. As hard as I have been on Kobe/Lakers, this one may have been overboard for a eclectic force in the league still = thoughts?

MadDoc :smokin

SequSpur
12-02-2004, 07:16 PM
NBA Forum.

Rummpd
12-02-2004, 07:18 PM
Sorry, next time will post there.

MadDoc

1Parker1
12-02-2004, 10:42 PM
HMM. The whole Kobe mess is really hard for me to pick a side on. It's all about Kobe said this, PJ said that, Shaq said this...rumors and backstabbing and badmouthing. They are all equal to blame. Regardless of everything that is being said and done off court by Kobe, I have always felt that his game on court was amazing to watch. He's a really exciting player, very talented, and is very clutch and confident. You can't take away the fact that he is one of the naturally talented Shooting Guards in the NBA. It's just hard for me to see him now on court, and not think about all the rumors and the trial etc, which I think sadly takes away from the excitement I felt watching his game. I sincerely hope he returns to the Kobe of 2000-2002, minus the drama of course.

coz
12-02-2004, 10:50 PM
I think the apathy of posters concerning this subject reflects basically everyone's feeling's. Kobe isn't news. Nobody cares about Kobe; they don't respect him, they don't like him. I have too much distaste for Kobe to boo him, I reserve a hearty boo for players I respect.

exstatic
12-02-2004, 11:30 PM
He couldn't close it off. But at least he responded.

I think that will be the ultimate description of this year's Laker squad.

Dex
12-02-2004, 11:37 PM
Kobe Bryant had 28 points, 10 assists, AND a huge fourth quarter. And they STILL lost to the BULLS.

If that's not a bad sign for Lakers fans, I don't know what is. You really can't ask for much more than 28 and 10 from Kobe. It's time to start pointing fingers at the team that isn't showing up around him.

ducks
12-02-2004, 11:39 PM
what if james did what kobe did
or amare did what kobe did
and they still lost

who would feel the same way

Medvedenko
12-03-2004, 11:30 AM
Yes, just like when the Lakers lost to the Hawks last year, and the bulls the year before...both on the road. These games happen...move on...the Sun-times article is still trying to grasp on old times...like when the bulls actually mattered. It doesn't matter...The lakers will struggle, we all know that. What I do know is, Kobe's the best in the NBA, and all great players need help. This is a transition year, nothing more, victories will be celebrated, but defeats not really laboured on my front.

picnroll
12-03-2004, 11:44 AM
Kobe can try at times but ultimately he's incapable of being a team player. Ultimately he'll make bad, selfish decisions pursuing the glory that is Kobe and the good players around him will get mad or turn off.

Medvedenko
12-03-2004, 12:06 PM
How many times do I have to hear that Kobe's not a team player...do you guys actually watch the games he's played in the last 5-6 years...All great players make bad decisions for the sake of putting the team on their shoulders...Man....even Duncan makes poor decisions...it fricken happens...man the hatred is palpable..Anyways...he's only led his lakers in assists for the last 4-5 years....I know dropping dimes does not make you a team player..oh I forgot.

picnroll
12-03-2004, 12:28 PM
Why should I hate Kobe? IMO he is what he is, a guy whose style and needs requires distorting the balance of team play. Take the Spurs for instance. Would they be able to play the team style with Kobe on this team. I don't think so. Would they be better, more harmonious on and off the court. Again I don't think so.

It will be interesting to see how the Kobe/Laker experiment plays out over the next two - three years.

Aggie Hoopsfan
12-03-2004, 12:43 PM
Look, Kobe's a prick. All this "get the team involved" bullshit that Kobe is doing right now, he's doing it because in the court of public opinion he has to, not because he wants to.

Rummpd
12-03-2004, 12:49 PM
I have teased LakerFan this year but this franchise like the mythological beast will be back strong hopefully not too soon. Why = they will be always the Spurs deep down threat (besides themselves) until Kobe retires, especially if and it will happen sometime, when he gets another real in his prime superstar besides him.

It will be interesting to see how the Kobe/Laker experiment plays out over the next two - three years. I have a prediction that based on Houston's early style not meshing = will be Yao to make a marketing dream for the NBA come true.

In the meantime, Kobe needs in my view at least one other solid piece - I am not sold on Odom for all the hype, ala Jefferson and Malone who will be back for sure, is not enough for all he brings to the table. It would take a Jason Kidd + Mourning for Odom and change or something (can the salaries work on that one?) to turn the Lakers scary.

I believe what will happen is that the Rockets will impode next 2-3 years despite McGrady's supposed breakout game (too much celebrating in a loss - Bird, Duncan and Jordan would never due that period) and most conveniently for the NBA marketing machine = Yao in his last year of his contract will be traded for Odom and change to the Lakers. Yao doesn't demand the ball and in a sense almost replaces Shaq and while never being as good as Duncan, will be a developed true force even more so than now.

Then they will have a substantial threat and very scary team but with the Spurs depth, TD, and maturing Parker/Manu and hopefully Brown - will be enough to subdue them still unless they add a 3rd piece to the equation.

But they will win 55-60 games a year and get all the press = guaranteed and the matchups with an aging Shaq/Wade and Yao/Kobe will be most hyped ever any time they meet (and it could be a finals one year). I would put my money on the former depending on who is around them still.

MadDoc = the sage

conversekid
12-03-2004, 12:52 PM
kobe is no jordan

FINALLY!

He never WAS, nor will he ever BE jordan. He can't even hold jordan's jock....

Kobe's situation couldn't happen to a nicer guy... what a waste of matter... to think, I have to breathe the same air as this guy for another 50 years...

Aggie Hoopsfan
12-03-2004, 12:58 PM
Go ahead and put Yao on the Lakers, it won't do him any good.

The Lakers would look just like Houston does now - a ball hog on the perimeter with an unassertive big man who doesn't get the ball enough down low.

Medvedenko
12-03-2004, 01:26 PM
A ball hog who's 9 in L in assists....

Aggie Hoopsfan
12-03-2004, 02:02 PM
Like I said, he's doing it right now because he has to, not because he wants to.

Let's see how Kobe does down the stretch when it's put up or shut up time.

picnroll
12-03-2004, 02:07 PM
How's Odom's assist numbers? How will Vlade's assist numbers be? How are the Laker's team assist numbers? How is Kobe's A:TO? How much time does the ball spend in Kobe's hands while others stand around? Is it Kobe does it because nobody else can or nobody else can because Kobe's doing it?

Medvedenko
12-03-2004, 02:13 PM
Just like when he led his team in the past, he's doing it again this year. The ball is in his hands...so that's his job..to get everyone involved. If you look at the wins they have had it's not because of his scoring...he's learning...The Lakers team assists are low in comparison, hence their record...but I wouldn't blame this on Kobe. They are a young team...they will get better. Right now he's first, second and third option, and most of the time he forces the passes rather than take over game, for the sake of involving the other players. This is an adjustment. The Lakers need help...I kind of blame the offence more on the coach than the players..they don't run that many plays and yes they usually stand around and watch Kobe. Having Vlade will help and Odom initiate the offence will take some ball handling duties off of Kobe. This will take time....Still don't compare him to T-Mac...

Aggie Hoopsfan
12-03-2004, 02:23 PM
Kobe never led. Whether you, Kobe, or any of his other supporters will admit it or not, Shaq was the unequivocal leader of that team.

The leadership role has defaulted to Kobe, but that doesn't mean he's actually any good at it.

ducks
12-03-2004, 02:36 PM
odom is the reason lakers are sucking

not kobe

odom has sucked this year
article in nba forum

tlongII
12-03-2004, 03:03 PM
What I do know is, Kobe's the best in the NBA, and all great players need help.

I nominate this for most ridiculous post of the day!

The one thing that has become readily apparent since Shaq and Kobe split up is that Kobe most definitely IS NOT the best in the NBA! Shaq is better, KG is better, Duncan is better, and LeBron is better just to name a few.

ducks
12-03-2004, 03:06 PM
if kobe was with the cavs instead of james

kobe stats would be better due to him being in east

spurs_fan_in_exile
12-03-2004, 03:16 PM
I'm with Blazer Boy here. Kobe is not the best in the league, although I have to say that he's taking an inordinate amount of flack for the Lakers woes this year. A lot of people have been quick to crow that Kobe wanted this to be HIS team so this is all HIS fault. He's busted his ass pretty hard this season, but he's got no one helping him out. Odom has taken time to settle in with the Clips, with the Heat, and he's taking his time now with the Lakers. He wanted this to be his team, that's true, but he never asked to be saddled with a squad that couldn't pull any of their own weight.

Medvedenko
12-03-2004, 04:06 PM
Hey Tlong...oh yeah...I forgot you're a blazer fan...why do you even talk trash about the Lakers....please the only thing you have in common with the Lakers is that Walton's kid plays for us and he's the only good thing that the blazers can hang their hat on...Shaq's better....are you kidding me....There records are almost identical and he's in the East.

tekdragon
12-03-2004, 04:30 PM
Amazed I'm about to say this, but:

I agree entirely, tlongII. Took the words right out of my mouth.

Excellent post.

duncan2k5
12-03-2004, 05:02 PM
if kobe was with the cavs instead of james

kobe stats would be better due to him being in east

IF IF IF IF IF IF :rolleyes

Rummpd
12-03-2004, 06:55 PM
Aha the discussion got started. Several salient threads, deep hostility, still a troubling article although it may be right on Kobe = time will tell.

MadDoc