Tony Parker

[SequSpur]

is the best point guard in the NBA, Period.

If you disagree with me.....

then you're dumb.

You watch to much WNBA.

you're an idiot.

you're stupid.

and you can blow me.

He's the best.

No contest.

[FlatMan]

I'll go ahead a disagree right away. I won't even mention who the best point guard is in the league because you know who I'm referring to.

[gino>yourlife]

I'll go ahead a disagree right away. I won't even mention who the best point guard is in the league because you know who I'm referring to.


not a point guard (if you're referring to who i think you are)

[gino>yourlife]

nash > parker

but not by much

[Magic_Johnson]

he's the best point guard in the finals

[FlatMan]

not a point guard (if you're referring to who i think you are)

Steve Nash is who I'm referring too.

[FlatMan]

he's the best point guard in the finals

Well that doesn't say much, seeing as he's the only real PG in the Finals.

[Obstructed_View]

At least Parker is no longer the second best point guard on his own team.

[gino>yourlife]

Steve Nash is who I'm referring too.

agreed then

[Fast Dunk]

is the best point guard in the NBA, Period.

If you disagree with me.....

then you're dumb.

You watch to much WNBA.

you're an idiot.

you're stupid.

and you can blow me.

He's the best.

No contest.

Kill yourself!!

Parker the best PG? :lol

He will be a no show for the next 3 games...

He tends to disappear after a good game..

Mark my Words.

[gino>yourlife]

Kill yourself!!

Parker the best PG? :lol

He will be a no show for the next 3 games...

He tends to disappear after a good game..

Mark my Words.

lol delusional

tony parker just shit on the entire cleveland cavaliers organization for 2 games straight

[Magic_Johnson]

Well that doesn't say much, seeing as he's the only real PG in the Finals.

sarcasm

[exstatic]

Kill yourself!!

Parker the best PG? :lol

He will be a no show for the next 3 games...

He tends to disappear after a good game..

Mark my Words.
That makes Game 2 kind of hard to explain then, doesn't it?

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao at all the word marking.

Mark my words: you're silly.

[DDS4]

Forum etiquette.

[ChumpDumper]

That makes game 2 kind of hard to explain then, doesn't it?Yeah, he followed up his Finals-high scoring game with....

....another Finals-high scoring game.

:spin

[exstatic]

The thing is, they're backing off him, but once the ball moves, if he gets it back and his man is ONE HALF STEP out of position, Tony has a layup. There is just no one to stop him at the rim. Neither Gooden or Varajao, for all their youth and athleticism, are any kind of real shot blocker. Their initial defense on him is good, but as Pop says, the defense isn't over until the rebound is secured.

[SequSpur]

Great.. the idiots are chiming in.... As the forum turns....

[SequSpur]

Parker destroyed Nash in that series. Check the bling. Nash ain't shit.

[dknights411]

Parker destroyed Nash in that series. Check the bling. Nash ain't shit.

I wouldn't sleep on Nash. I mean he DID win two MVP awards for a reason. All Nash needs is a new coach.

[dbreiden83080]

I wouldn't sleep on Nash. I mean he DID win two MVP awards for a reason. All Nash needs is a new coach.

Yeah the media kissing his ass is basically why he won the award twice.

[exstatic]

I wouldn't sleep on Nash. I mean he DID win two MVP awards for a reason. All Nash needs is a new coach.
His new coach would probably insist he play defense, though.

I've been watching the NBA for 25 years, and Nash is, hands down, the worst MVP in that timeframe. He has a decent, unselfish offensive game. That's it. He couldn't guard a fucking crash test dummy.

[HJNTX]

No doubt about it, Tony is one of the best PGs in the business. I wouldn't say he's the best right now, but he could be someday. He has accomplished much in such a very few years.

[FlatMan]

His new coach would probably insist he play defense, though.

I've been watching the NBA for 25 years, and Nash is, hands down, the worst MVP in that timeframe. He has a decent, unselfish offensive game. That's it. He couldn't guard a fucking crash test dummy.

Ummm....

Dirk Nowitzki

[dbreiden83080]

Ummm....

Dirk Nowitzki

Dirk mainly because of his size is a pretty good rebounder. When he is going good he is a great scorer and good rebounder. When he is going bad though like against the Warriors he is basically useless because he can't guard anyone and does not draw double teams.

[exstatic]

Ummm....

Dirk Nowitzki
IMHO Nash is worse as an MVP than Dirk. At least AJ is insisting that Dirk play SOME semblance of defense, and as was previously mentioned, he does rebound.

[fuckespn]

IMHO Nash is worse as an MVP than Dirk. At least AJ is insisting that Dirk play SOME semblance of defense, and as was previously mentioned, he does rebound.

He also choked his way to losing to the 8th seed

[SequSpur]

No doubt about it, Tony is one of the best PGs in the business. I wouldn't say he's the best right now, but he could be someday. He has accomplished much in such a very few years.

okay, you tell me who is better so exstatic can explain why Parker is the best....

bring it.... all of you......

no one had the confidence like me... i've been telling you bitches for years...

now you want one the french fry wagon.... sheyitt... :fro

[BIG z]

is the best point guard in the NBA, Period.

If you disagree with me.....

then you're dumb.

You watch to much WNBA.

you're an idiot.

you're stupid.

and you can blow me.

He's the best.

No contest.

I think he would be better of as a shooting gurad.

[exstatic]

I think he would be better of as a shooting gurad.
The beauty of the motion offense is that there are just guards. No shooting guards, no PGs. Everyone touches the ball, and needs to be able to score or create for others.

[vander]

Parker is great...


at ONE thing, finishing at the rim in traffic. and any competent coach can take that away from him, even a great defender can take that away from him.

tony doesn't have great court vision, doesn't have a mid-range game (yet), doesn't elevate or create for teammates, isn't the most athletic, doesn't have a great shooting range or ability.

He looks great right now playing against a crappy coach, an injured defender, alongside the greatest PF of all time, on the most disciplined and well coached team in the league. a LOT of PG's would look great in that situation.

my top PG's:

1: Nash (don't hate Nash because of the shitty phoenix fans, he IS the best)

2: Billups (Detroit is nothing without that guy)

3: AI (finishes like parker, but can shoot, dish, and carry a team)

4: Deron Williams (mark my words, these Jazz will only continue to improve, led by that guy, they could easily be the class of the NBA next year.

5: Kidd (the media always says he's great, and the spurs went after him, so I'll put him at #5, but I've never been impressed by him all that much)

6: Arenas (don't even try and tell me he wouldn't flourish in our system, he would be so much more dangerous on those picks with Duncan, cause he's actually a threat to hit threes, or pass to the open cutter/roller)

7: TP: (and this might even be a reach, Hinrich and Paul are right on his heals.

look, I love Parker, but Duncan will make any PG look good, and even with Duncan, Parker doesn't always look that good. the other PG's on that list put up better stats, while being their teams #1 option or main playmaker, with no Duncan to make their life easy.

[mathbzh]

Parker is great...


at ONE thing, finishing at the rim in traffic. and any competent coach can take that away from him, even a great defender can take that away from him.

But no team as figured out how to deny him access to the rim in two seasons. competent coach and great defender are probably dying species.


tony doesn't have great court vision, doesn't have a mid-range game (yet), doesn't elevate or create for teammates, isn't the most athletic, doesn't have a great shooting range or ability.

And is improving in all these areas.


He looks great right now playing against a crappy coach, an injured defender
He played against AI, Nash, Deron Williams and looked great. You can't blame him for playing against an injured PG in the finals. You could also say Duncan is not playing great PF/C and Gino is not playing against a great SG.


, alongside the greatest PF of all time, on the most disciplined and well coached team in the league. a LOT of PG's would look great in that situation.
Beno prove this everytime he is on the floor.



my top PG's:

1: Nash (don't hate Nash because of the shitty phoenix fans, he IS the best)

2: Billups (Detroit is nothing without that guy)

3: AI (finishes like parker, but can shoot, dish, and carry a team)

4: Deron Williams (mark my words, these Jazz will only continue to improve, led by that guy, they could easily be the class of the NBA next year.

5: Kidd (the media always says he's great, and the spurs went after him, so I'll put him at #5, but I've never been impressed by him all that much)

6: Arenas (don't even try and tell me he wouldn't flourish in our system, he would be so much more dangerous on those picks with Duncan, cause he's actually a threat to hit threes, or pass to the open cutter/roller)

7: TP: (and this might even be a reach, Hinrich and Paul are right on his heals.

I don't disagree on your ranking. Mine :
1 Nash (poor defense but maybe the greatest playmaker ever)
2 Kidd
3 Davis (when he is healthy)
4-5-6-7 Billup, Arenas, Parker, AI in no particular order.
8-9 Deron Williams/CP (they still need a bit more experience)



look, I love Parker, but Duncan will make any PG look good, and even with Duncan, Parker doesn't always look that good. the other PG's on that list put up better stats, while being their teams #1 option or main playmaker, with no Duncan to make their life easy.

- No PG always look good
- Duncan make Parker life easier but it also limit his stats in another team Parker would have more assist, more PPG and probably a smaller FG%. No PG could have 10+ asst/game in the spurs system.

Just one note You say AI can shoot? Arenas can shoot but AI??? obviously he shoot. AI shooting statistics are awfull (for a superstar)!!!
When you look at Parker stats, don't forgot he only plays 32 minutes a game.
If you compare him to billup you can see that (in 36 minutes) TP have the best stats (I am not saying he is better). In 42.5 minutes (Iverson PT) he would have almost the same stats Iverson has (-2PPG, same APG, better FG%).

[100%duncan]

tony parker is the best nba point guard alive today.can he be the finals mvp instead of duncan?

[Slomo]

is the best point guard in the NBA, Period.

If you disagree with me.....

then you're dumb.

You watch to much WNBA.

you're an idiot.

you're stupid.

and you can blow me.

He's the best.

No contest.Amen.

Post of the year.

And if you disagree.....

You can blow Sequ twice.

No contest.

[TPnumber1]

1. Nash
2. Tony
3. Deron
4. billups/paul/iverson and co

[ginobili fan]

Kidd=bullshit.
His stat doesn't win games...Why rebounding? score bitch ah...I forgot you can't score .
Davis? ballhog,without his 3 point range he's shit .
Iverson=Tony's bitch.
He played like a bitch against the spurs so he's not the best,plus he isn't a PG,he's better when he plays SG like in Philly time .
Arenas? he's not a PG.
Only thing he can do is shooting the ball 50 times per game.
Billups? the ECF show us that he's a big shit amen.

THe best= Nash.

And I would the future best= TP with CP and DW.

ONe thing is sure : any Tony is the best PG in the nba at this age.

[SAGambler]

Kill yourself!!

Parker the best PG? :lol

He will be a no show for the next 3 games...

He tends to disappear after a good game..

Mark my Words.

You may have failed to notice, but Tony has had back to back of 27 and 30, so that kind of discounts your "disappear after a good game" theory.

And no, I don't think Tony is the best PG in the NBA........YET.

He is probably the most unguardable driving in the lane, and putting up points in the paint. He has a pretty competent jumpshot from 15 - 18 feet out now, and he is starting to get those pinpoint passes ala Steve Nash down. Another year, and learning to dish out 10 -15 times per game ala Jason Kidd and Steve Nash, and he may well be the best in the NBA.

Of course, he is going to get some competition from a guy out there in Utah, by the name of Deron Williams. And let's not forget another youngster by the name of Chris Paul.

Nash and Kidd right now are the best, but their time is coming to an end.

But Tony is still going to have to up his game to be considered the best of the best.

[Texas_Ranger]

You drink too much alcohol.

[mattyc]

Probably the best French person ever since Joan of Arc.

[mathbzh]

Probably the best French person ever since Joan of Arc.
You forgot Zidane

[romain.star]

Probably the best French person ever since Joan of Arc.

you forget jacques chirac :drunk :drunk :drunk

[timvp]

Whoever thinks Chauncey Billups is better than Tony Parker, much less the second best point guard in the league, hasn't watched the NBA since 2004. Parker isn't the best point guard in the league, but he's now better than Billups.

And if Duncan could make any point guard look great, explain why every backup point guard the last five years has looked like crap outside of Speedy Claxton for one and a half games.

[mattyc]

Parker > Baron Pierre de Coubertin

[Loose Cannon]

7: TP: (and this might even be a reach, Hinrich and Paul are right on his heals.


Kirk Heinrich? You've got to be shitting me.

[ArgSpursFan]

I love Nash,and his passing and long range shootings skills.But At the same time I have to say the Parker is on his way to become the best Point guard in the league.And when that happens He´ll be greater tham Nash.Why?Simple:He is able to run a team which can play run and guns type of basketball and also Slow tempo Eurolike Type of team like the spurs are right now.The spurs can run,and they can also slow the tempo and kill you with the pick and roll.
Parker is gonna be the best point guard in the league thanks to Greg Popovic.

[mathbzh]

And if Duncan could make any point guard look great, explain why every backup point guard the last five years has looked like crap outside of Speedy Claxton for one and a half games.

I am interested in the answer too.

[romain.star]

Parker > Baron Pierre de Coubertin

no way dude... the Baron is the father of modern sport

[mattyc]

no way dude... the Baron is the father of modern sport
And Tony Parker is averaging 28.5pts this series.

Tony wins.

[ArgSpursFan]

I am interested in the answer two.

most likely coze when The Buckup PG is on the floor,Timmy is sitting on the bench getting some rest.
And that´s why Pop brings Manu as a 6th man instead of starting him,that way He can kind of run the team when TD and TP are getting some rest.

[romain.star]

And Tony Parker is averaging 28.5pts this series.

Tony wins.


:worthy:

[mathbzh]

most likely coze when The Buckup PG is on the floor,Timmy is sitting on the bench getting some rest.
And that´s why Pop brings Manu as a 6th man instead of starting him,that way He can kind of run the team when TD and TP are getting some rest.

Thanks... I am relieved. For one second I believed our backup PG were the only one on earth not looking good when playing with Duncan.
Even Beno can't be that bad.

[mattyc]

This thread is tops. I have an exam tomorrow and i'm comparing TP to long passed french people....

[romain.star]

This thread is tops. I have an exam tomorrow and i'm comparing TP to long passed french people....


my exam was yesterday so i'm ready to compare tony to every frenchies, from Napoléon to Boris Diaw...

[mattyc]

Christian Dior vs Tony Parker
Louis Vuitton vs Tony Parker
Astérix and Obelix vs Tony Parker
André the Giant vs Tony Parker

[mathbzh]

André the Giant vs Tony Parker
Who the hell is André the Giant
Here in France he is a total unknown (I needed to check on google)

[romain.star]

actually, Asterix and Obelix are "gaullois", which means they were supposed to live before France even existed...
as for andré the giant, never heard of him...

[ambchang]

I am sure Manu Ginobili is the best PG in the league right now, he is the best at everything according to his church.

[mathbzh]

I am sure Manu Ginobili is the best PG in the league right now, he is the best at everything according to his church.
Wrong he is only second behind Lebron

[Dartherus]

is the best point guard in the NBA, Period.

If you disagree with me.....

then you're dumb.

You watch to much WNBA.

you're an idiot.

you're stupid.

and you can blow me.

He's the best.

No contest.
improved a lot in playoffs, however, didn't shine in difficult moments yet, mostly in easy victories.

BTW, you can say he's the best SCORING guard, cause when he shines, is when he scores a lot, he never shines by having a huge game regarding direction.

[MadDog73]

Parker is great...


at ONE thing, finishing at the rim in traffic. and any competent coach can take that away from him, even a great defender can take that away from him.

Complete and utter Bullshit. In case you haven't noticed, Parker has perfected his jumpshot. When he is on, he is unguardable.



tony doesn't have great court vision, doesn't have a mid-range game (yet), doesn't elevate or create for teammates, isn't the most athletic, doesn't have a great shooting range or ability.

Disproven as above. And his passing has improved as well.




He looks great right now playing against a crappy coach, an injured defender, alongside the greatest PF of all time, on the most disciplined and well coached team in the league. a LOT of PG's would look great in that situation. He's looked great the entire playoffs! Every night he consistently score 20 points or more.

He hung with Steve Nash, the "best" PG in the game (although how many Finals as Steve Nash been in? How many rings has he won? Funny how someone can be so good, and not have the hardware).


my top PG's:

1: Nash (don't hate Nash because of the shitty phoenix fans, he IS the best)
I'll say tied with Parker. Rings count for something, right?



2: Billups (Detroit is nothing without that guy)

Is this for MVP of a team or for best point guard period?

Because Tony > Billups.



3: AI (finishes like parker, but can shoot, dish, and carry a team)
Yeah, that worked out for the Nuggets didn't it?

I love AI, but at this point in his career, Tony is better than AI now.



4: Deron Williams (mark my words, these Jazz will only continue to improve, led by that guy, they could easily be the class of the NBA next year.

Deron is better than Tony how? Agreed that this guy will become a great point guard, but he's not at Tony's level yet.



7: TP: (and this might even be a reach, Hinrich and Paul are right on his heals.

This proves you're full of shit. How can the best player in the Finals be the number 7 PG on your list?

I know Cavs suck, but shouldn't Tim be getting 30+ points a game if it's so easy?



look, I love Parker,

No, you don't. If you "loved" Tony, you'd rank him higher than 7. :rolleyes



but Duncan will make any PG look good, and even with Duncan, Parker doesn't always look that good.

Right, because our backup PGs look so good.



the other PG's on that list put up better stats, while being their teams #1 option or main playmaker, with no Duncan to make their life easy.

I'm not going to pull the stats of all those players, but please show me Parkers playoff numbers versus any of those guys, and we'll see who wins.

[smeagol]

Parker has been superb. He is the MVP of the first two games.

[smeagol]

I am sure Manu Ginobili is the best PG in the league right now, he is the best at everything according to his church.
Nah . . . that is only for the blind members of his Church.

[hater]

I think it was about time this forum dedicated a thread to Parker. He has been the best spur in the finals

Parker for MVP!

[nkdlunch]

church of Tony >>> Church of Manu

and I am a proud member of the 2nd

[Slomo]

Tony has been stellar with his offense, but let's not forget about how good his defense has been throughout these playoffs.

Now look at that list of PGs and think defense...


P.S. Isn't Andre the Giant Canadian?

[ForeignFan]

Don't forget Thierry Henry !

André the Giant is definitely not French (he is a wrestler right ? we do not have those in France)

[CubanMustGo]

Tony has been stellar with his offense, but let's not forget about how good his defense has been throughout these playoffs.

Now look at that list of PGs and think defense...


P.S. Isn't Andre the Giant Canadian?

André the [dead] Giant, nee André René Roussimoff, was born to French parents of Bulgarian and Polish descent in a small farm near Ussy-sur-Marne. (Wiki).

Tony is playing well enough to be MVP of the series if he continues at that level, but he's a combo guard and not a true PG. And that's OK as long as you have a PF like Duncan who can get 8 assists in a Finals game. Tony's play fits the Spurs' system now that Pop has quit trying to make a traditional PG out of him.

[ShoogarBear]

Christian Dior vs Tony Parker
Louis Vuitton vs Tony Parker
Astérix and Obelix vs Tony Parker
André the Giant vs Tony ParkerLaetitia Casta vs. Tony Parker.




Sorry, Tony . . .

[Avitus1]

I just voted for him as ESPN's King of the Night on Sports Center. Its not to surprising that the only states that have heavily voted for him are Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico.

[CubanMustGo]

Interesting that Mark Stein, even with Tony's very good play, thinks Duncan is the MVP at this point:

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2901332&name=stein_marc

I keep hearing it after just two games of these NBA Finals: Tony Parker for Finals MVP.

Sacre bleu.

Let's forget, for a moment, that (a) it might be a bit premature to be talking about this kind of stuff and (b) that real Frenchmen would never express astonishment so geekily.

Let's go ahead and skip ahead -- on the assumption that the Spurs will be finishing Cleveland off in five games (or less) -- and focus purely on the fact that Parker simply can't be favored to snag this hardware.

Over Tim Duncan?

Barring an unfathonable drop-off from No. 21 in whatever is left of this season, Duncan is still the most deserving Spur.

That's no slight to Parker, who truly was the most dynamic player in San Antonio's first two victories, using his speed, guile and peerless knack for getting into the paint -- as well as his sharpened jumper -- to ring up 27 points in Game 1 and another 30 in Game 2. Can't say it any better than my man Mike Wise wrote it in Monday's Washington Post: "Two games down, LeBron has been outplayed by Le Blur."

However …

Even though league officials reminded me Monday that this award is based purely on the Finals and not meant to go to the MVP of the entire playoffs by taking earlier rounds into account -- yes, I double-checked for confirmation -- I'd still go with Duncan.

I suspect Parker couldn't do what he does offensively if Cleveland's big men could leave Duncan the way San Antonio's big men give help on LeBron James.

Nor could Parker be an rim-attacking game breaker if the Spurs weren't controlling the tempo, which also flows from Duncan's mere presence.

In 2005, when Duncan beat out Manu Ginobili for Finals MVP by one vote -- sparking a fury in Argentina that still persists to this day among my colleagues in the prensa down there -- there was a genuine debate in play because of Duncan's struggles in that series. The Pistons were at the height of their powers and guarded Duncan as well as anyone has in a playoff series.

In this series, Parker is bound to be the flashiest Spur because Cleveland hasn't found anyone who can guard him … and I doubt starting Daniel Gibson over Larry Hughes on Parker would make much difference.

Either way, Duncan remains the most dominant player of this postseason. It's no different in the Finals than it was in each of the previous three rounds. The Spurs are winning battles all over the floor against the overmatched East champs, but their success still starts with Duncan just about anywhere you want to look.

If you don't believe me, listen to Spurs coach Gregg Popovich.

"[Duncan] does whatever he does offensively pretty naturally," Pop says. "But on defense, this was probably his best year defensively in three, four, five years. Not just blocking shots and rebounding, but being in position, guarding people one-on-one on the post or out on the floor. He had an excellent year defensively and it's continued in the playoffs and even increased based on blocked shots and that sort of thing."

If you don't believe Pop and me, listen to the Frenchman himself.

"Whatever happens, Timmy's the man," Parker said when someone asked after Sunday night's Game 2 victory if he should be listed now as the Finals MVP favorite.

"Timmy is the star on our team."

I liked that answer as much as anything I've seen in this series from Parker.

He might end up forcing LeBron to revise his rankings -- James said Sunday night that Parker was "probably the second-best point guard we've played in the postseason" behind New Jersey's Jason Kidd -- but Parker knows the deal.

[SequSpur]

Parker =MVP

[BlackFlagg]

He will be a no show for the next 3 games...

He tends to disappear after a good game..

Mark my Words.


"Mark my Words" ... :lol Oh god, another dire warning. *yawn*

Like the man said, were you even watching G2???

:rolleyes

[SpursIndonesia]

Parker hasn't reached that pantheon as the best player in the league at his position, but he's within striking distance. He has a pretty tough competition though, with so many young, up & coming talented PG's around the league.

[SequSpur]

ITs parker time!

[Josepatches]

Don't forget The Spurs are playing against the Cavs.Parker is a very good point guard but he's not as good as Nash right now.Deron Williams was better than him in the West Finals.Is D-Williams better than Parker? You can't say "Parker is the best point guard of the league" even if he win the MVP.TD plays with SA.That's why TP had 3 rings and maybe the reason why Nash never played the NBA Finals.Do you think that you can make a championship team around Parker?
You can take out Parker of the team and we could play the NBA Finals too.Take out Duncan and tell me what happen

[SequSpur]

Parker = MVP

Blow me.

[thekingrobert]

if nash played parker defense he would be put parker may not be the best but he's somewhere up there and is still improving nash has hit his highest peak

[SequSpur]

Parker would drop 40 on nash if he guarded him.. book it.

[thewatcher]

i hope he doesnt get robbed, like manu got robbed in '05

[klx23]

I would also give MVP to Tony. Unstoppable and out of his mind.

Imagine that. An MVP trophy to go along with all the other marvels in his life. Some people just have it all.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I would also give MVP to Tony. Unstoppable and out of his mind.

Imagine that. An MVP trophy to go along with all the other marvels in his life. Some people just have it all.


I hate the media. Whatever the media portrays, millions of people automatically follow it like mindless robots.

Media Guy with no real NBA knowledge: "It seems to me that Tony Parker is making a case for MVP."

PPG enthusiasts fans with no real NBA knowledge: "Yes! TP iz teh gr8tst!"

Poor Tim Duncan. Leads his team to a great season every year and just can't get due respect from anybody.

TP 4 MVP MY ASS!

VIVA LA FUNDEMENTAL GRANDE!

[klx23]

I hate the media. Whatever the media portrays, millions of people automatically follow it like mindless robots.

Media Guy with no real NBA knowledge: "It seems to me that Tony Parker is making a case for MVP."

PPG enthusiasts fans with no real NBA knowledge: "Yes! TP iz teh gr8tst!"

Poor Tim Duncan. Leads his team to a great season every year and just can't get due respect from anybody.

TP 4 MVP MY ASS!

VIVA LA FUNDEMENTAL GRANDE!

First of all, get off Tim Duncan's jock. I have never seen anyone be so passionate about Tim Duncan winning a trophy he's won several times before.

Secondly, do you have a problem with Tony Parker? I dont hang around these boards a lot because I'm obviously not a Spurs fan, but it seems to me that there are the Duncan fans and the Parker fans (who supposedly say "TP is the gr8test"). What is this?

Lastly, no, not poor Tim Duncan. I don't feel sorry for him at all. Sure he's the best player on the team, but Tony Parker has been pretty amazing in these Finals. Perhaps it's because we have no answer for him, but we really don't have an answer for anyone. This award is for the best player in THIS series. So far, Parker has proved to be slightly more deserving than Duncan.

Stop crying and whining and accept the reality that for once, someone else but your precious Tim Duncan might actually win MVP. Get over it.

[tim_duncan_fan]

First of all, get off Tim Duncan's jock. I have never seen anyone be so passionate about Tim Duncan winning a trophy he's won several times before.

Secondly, do you have a problem with Tony Parker? I dont hang around these boards a lot because I'm obviously not a Spurs fan, but it seems to me that there are the Duncan fans and the Parker fans (who supposedly say "TP is the gr8test"). What is this?

Lastly, no, not poor Tim Duncan. I don't feel sorry for him at all. Sure he's the best player on the team, but Tony Parker has been pretty amazing in these Finals. Perhaps it's because we have no answer for him, but we really don't have an answer for anyone. This award is for the best player in THIS series. So far, Parker has proved to be slightly more deserving than Duncan.

Stop crying and whining and accept the reality that for once, someone else but your precious Tim Duncan might actually win MVP. Get over it.


Uhm. Dude. It's a difference of 4 PPG. There's more to the game than scoring and anyway everyone knows that TP wouldn't be able to go off without Tim Duncan drawing so much attention, but of course, in this age of the NBA points is all that matters. Defense and rebounding account for nothing.

[dbreiden83080]

i hope he doesnt get robbed, like manu got robbed in '05

Oh god yet another Spurs fan that did not watch the 05 finals. Manu is maybe half the defensive player that Duncan is and Tony is maybe 1/4 as good on that end. Basketball is a 2 way sport you do know that right??

[mathbzh]

Oh god yet another Spurs fan that did not watch the 05 finals. Manu is maybe half the defensive player that Duncan is and Tony is maybe 1/4 as good on that end. Basketball is a 2 way sport you do know that right??

This board is amazing. Everybody agree on Tim greatness. Everybody knows he is one of the best big ever. Parker is having a great run and is receiving some consideration. That is great for him. The same may it was great for Manu to be in the discussion in 2005. Why not just be happy for them when it happens?

I will tell you a secret:
We don't win because Duncan>Lebron, we didn't beat the Suns because our big 3 > their big 3, we do all this because the Spurs are the best team inthe league (You know these Bowen, Finley, Oberto...).
Tim Duncan is my MVP but if Tony get it I will be happy. And if Manu had it in 2005 I would have been happy for him.

[aaronstampler]

This board is amazing. Everybody agree on Tim greatness. Everybody knows he is one of the best big ever. Parker is having a great run and is receiving some consideration. That is great for him. The same may it was great for Manu to be in the discussion in 2005. Why not just be happy for them when it happens?

I will tell you a secret:
We don't win because Duncan>Lebron, we didn't beat the Suns because our big 3 > their big 3, we do all this because the Spurs are the best team inthe league (You know these Bowen, Finley, Oberto...).
Tim Duncan is my MVP but if Tony get it I will be happy. And if Manu had it in 2005 I would have been happy for him.


I just think that if Manu didn't win it in '05 when he was >>> Duncan, then it'd be kind of fishy to give it to Parker now. In '05, not only did Manu shoot a much better % than Tim and lead the team in assists, but he led the team in +/- with +63, while Duncan was -3. Tony is playing very well right now, but he's not outplaying Tim anywhere near as much as Manu did two years ago. LJ makes the argument for Tim all the time, no matter what the final numbers are, so I suspect he'll make it for this series as well.

[TPnumber1]

I hate the media. Whatever the media portrays, millions of people automatically follow it like mindless robots.

Media Guy with no real NBA knowledge: "It seems to me that Tony Parker is making a case for MVP."

PPG enthusiasts fans with no real NBA knowledge: "Yes! TP iz teh gr8tst!"

Poor Tim Duncan. Leads his team to a great season every year and just can't get due respect from anybody.

TP 4 MVP MY ASS!

VIVA LA FUNDEMENTAL GRANDE!

haha tony will be the mvp FINALS
do you understand ? mvp FINALS

don't worry ...tada tada... be happy....
i hate tp's haters sorry.

[romain.star]

I just think that if Manu didn't win it in '05 when he was >>> Duncan, then it'd be kind of fishy to give it to Parker now. In '05, not only did Manu shoot a much better % than Tim and lead the team in assists, but he led the team in +/- with +63, while Duncan was -3. Tony is playing very well right now, but he's not outplaying Tim anywhere near as much as Manu did two years ago. LJ makes the argument for Tim all the time, no matter what the final numbers are, so I suspect he'll make it for this series as well.


here we go again... please aaron, stop comparing tp and manu... i don't see your point... As i said in an other thread, this is a childish reaction.
Basically, you say: "ok, my manu didn't win the Finals MVP whereas he played great in 2005 (and to me, he deserved it), so i don't want tony to get the award beacause it would be unfair to manu"

Do you see how stupid it sounds?

[SequSpur]

Official Tony Parker Topic. USE IT!

[hater]

LMAO at Duncan lovers gettting offended if parker wins it.

[ShoogarBear]

Even on the verge of a championship, the Manu vs. Tony hissy fits won't stop.

[MadDog73]

I just think that if Manu didn't win it in '05 when he was >>> Duncan, then it'd be kind of fishy to give it to Parker now. In '05, not only did Manu shoot a much better % than Tim and lead the team in assists, but he led the team in +/- with +63, while Duncan was -3.


Come on. Who uses +/- for MVP awards?

Tim Duncan outscored Manu, and barely won the voting.

[hater]

Even on the verge of a championship, the Manu vs. Tony hissy fits won't stop.

amen. watch Spurs getting blown out tonight while fans discussing stupid shit like finals MVP.

[SequSpur]

Tony Parker's contribution this year was amazing. He is one of the main reasons the Spurs won in the regular season and the playoffs.

His game is no longer a secret. He destroys people in the paint, he breaks down anyone off the dribble, he is decent defensively, he is a straight up playa. He's fucking good.

Tonight, he broke out the 3 point shot. I've see this dude before games shoot balls from sitting in a courtside chair, lofting shot after shot while sitting down, swishing 4 out of 5. Dude is a Wizard.

Props to him and Got damn.. I look forward to the next few years of him destroying the rest of the NBA.

:fro

[Dex]

In his playoff career, Tony Parker has at least held par with, if not outplayed, Stephon Marbury, Andre Miller, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, Gary Payton (fuckin D. Fish), and Steve Nash (repeatedly).

The only point gaurd that really has Tony fits was Chauncey Billups, which was half to Detroits credit defensively and half to the fact that Tony hadn't developed a jump shot at that point. The Nets and Lakers of the past were able to contain him by focusing their concentration on him, but that is what makes the separation between stars and superstars: the ability to play through that focused attention.

Tony is a confirmed superstar at this stage now. Fuck what all the haters say, a Finals MVP makes up for a few shakey playoff years. He brought it to the biggest stage when this team needed him most, and I for one am relieved to believe that the Spurs may have a second primetime with Parker at the reigns and Duncan in his twilight.

Steve Nash can rack up all the assists he wants with a run and gun, 187-points a game system. If it came down to picking for playground ball, I would go straight for Tony Parker. After all, I always thought you were supposed to pick the best guys first. The guys that are going to win you games.

[TDMVPDPOY]

http://www.tgprinting.com/temp/tony_eva_sex.gif

guess he couldnt wait

found it on another forum roflmao el_locotee

[RC's Boss]

Wait until next year when he develops that 3pt shot. A little Mike Bibby range and it will be over...... Tony Parker = MVP! Nash... pfft, Billups... my ass, Kidd... whatever. Tony put this team on his back all last year, and he did it again in the finals. Parker is the shit!

[RogerIsEatingASandwich]

Tony Parker owns all.

[RC's Boss]

Nash (ringless) < Parker = Malone (ringless) < Duncan. He may not be the greatest of all time, but w/ his shot continuing to develop, he may end up being the most difficult PG to guard IMO (and my opinion is law beyatches)!

[RC's Boss]

I said it before, watch the parade... Tony will not need a float, he shall walk on the water, make the blind see, take out a loaf of bread and feed all the children, and then turn the water he's walking on into wine so we can all get fucked up!

[Next Superstar]

Kidd=bullshit.
His stat doesn't win games...Why rebounding? score bitch ah...I forgot you can't score .
Davis? ballhog,without his 3 point range he's shit .
Iverson=Tony's bitch.
He played like a bitch against the spurs so he's not the best,plus he isn't a PG,he's better when he plays SG like in Philly time .
Arenas? he's not a PG.
Only thing he can do is shooting the ball 50 times per game.
Billups? the ECF show us that he's a big shit amen.

THe best= Nash.

And I would the future best= TP with CP and DW.

ONe thing is sure : any Tony is the best PG in the nba at this age.


Wow that was brilliant commentary. Parker wishes he had Kidd's court vision and kidd is a triple double threat every game. No pg posesses the combination of strength and quickness that baron has and this so called ballhog averaged 8 assists a game while parker was around i think 5 a game.

MY pg rankings
1. Nash
2. Baron
3.Kidd
4.Parker
5.tie Cp3/Deron Willams

[mikekim]

I would've voted for Duncan getting the MVP (because really...it isn't just about the stats), but I'm just as happy that Tony got it.

The only thing that gets me a little bit is now I really wish that Manu would've gotten it in '05. I would never disqualify Tony's mvp because manu didn't get it though. But now I really wish that Manu would've gotten the mvp back then for the simple reason that if that happened, all of the big 3 would each have a finals mvp, with duncan having 2 total...

Even though this is a TEAM and everyone's role is important, I just love how that looks on paper...

[MannyIsGod]

In his playoff career, Tony Parker has at least held par with, if not outplayed, Stephon Marbury, Andre Miller, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, Gary Payton (fuckin D. Fish), and Steve Nash (repeatedly).

The only point gaurd that really has Tony fits was Chauncey Billups, which was half to Detroits credit defensively and half to the fact that Tony hadn't developed a jump shot at that point. The Nets and Lakers of the past were able to contain him by focusing their concentration on him, but that is what makes the separation between stars and superstars: the ability to play through that focused attention.

Tony is a confirmed superstar at this stage now. Fuck what all the haters say, a Finals MVP makes up for a few shakey playoff years. He brought it to the biggest stage when this team needed him most, and I for one am relieved to believe that the Spurs may have a second primetime with Parker at the reigns and Duncan in his twilight.

Steve Nash can rack up all the assists he wants with a run and gun, 187-points a game system. If it came down to picking for playground ball, I would go straight for Tony Parker. After all, I always thought you were supposed to pick the best guys first. The guys that are going to win you games.Right fucking on.

[ginobili fan]

In his playoff career, Tony Parker has at least held par with, if not outplayed, Stephon Marbury, Andre Miller, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, Gary Payton (fuckin D. Fish), and Steve Nash (repeatedly).

The only point gaurd that really has Tony fits was Chauncey Billups, which was half to Detroits credit defensively and half to the fact that Tony hadn't developed a jump shot at that point. The Nets and Lakers of the past were able to contain him by focusing their concentration on him, but that is what makes the separation between stars and superstars: the ability to play through that focused attention.

Tony is a confirmed superstar at this stage now. Fuck what all the haters say, a Finals MVP makes up for a few shakey playoff years. He brought it to the biggest stage when this team needed him most, and I for one am relieved to believe that the Spurs may have a second primetime with Parker at the reigns and Duncan in his twilight.

Steve Nash can rack up all the assists he wants with a run and gun, 187-points a game system. If it came down to picking for playground ball, I would go straight for Tony Parker. After all, I always thought you were supposed to pick the best guys first. The guys that are going to win you games.

Wonerful choose the right guy

[romain.star]

I would've voted for Duncan getting the MVP (because really...it isn't just about the stats), but I'm just as happy that Tony got it.

The only thing that gets me a little bit is now I really wish that Manu would've gotten it in '05. I would never disqualify Tony's mvp because manu didn't get it though. But now I really wish that Manu would've gotten the mvp back then for the simple reason that if that happened, all of the big 3 would each have a finals mvp, with duncan having 2 total...

Even though this is a TEAM and everyone's role is important, I just love how that looks on paper...


Manu will be the 2008 Finals MVP... :downspin:

[tp time]

TP, 3 rings, mvp...25 years old..... youngest ever (not kobe anymor!!)

[WalterBenitez]

At the end ... justice ... the MVP goes to TP !!!!

[Mavs<Spurs]

Tony now is the best point guard in the NBA in the sense of Arenas and AI.

Tony is a better player than Nash.


I still would like to see 7 or 8 assists / game since his team does have TD and Manu.


He definitely deserved the MVP.

[DarkReign]

I said it earlier this year, but I will say it again after the playoffs.

TP has opened my eyes. Hes in the top 3 of PGs in this league, no question.

Goes anywhere he wants, breaks ankles in the paint, can finish in the trees like no other, and oh yeah, the man has an ultra-reliable jumpshot from 18ft in.

Scary good. Sick good. As long as TP and Manu stay in the backcourt for the Spurs, the team will always contend. Oh, and TD doesnt hurt much either (TD is only 31?! That shit isnt fair.....).

Congratulations to the Spurs and their fans. Big props to TP on his well deserved MVP.

[spurscenter]

Parker is right there next to Nash now.

Nash changes the game like Shaq does down low.

Nash is tough . Parker is tough.

I would flip a coin and take either one.

I dont think Parker if he played in Phoenix is as dominant wo Duncan and I think Nash can excel in both Phoenix and in San Antonio systems.

But Ill take any of the two.

[ginobili fan]

I'm really starting thinking that Parker IS THE CHOOSEN ONE.
I mean this kid is doing all this at only 25 and he has always improved, and alway been premature,a prodigious kid.
If Parker would have had a high school career like LeBron or Cris Paul, or Anthony,...he would have been recognize earlier and maybe drafted in the top 5 something like that...
So thanks God he grown up in France so the Spurs could have him.

[ambchang]

TP, 3 rings, mvp...25 years old..... youngest ever (not kobe anymor!!)
I thought Magic won it when he was 20.
But then Magic didn't have 3 rings by the time when he was 25, or did he?

[SpursIndonesia]

Just work on your shooting range this summer Tony, further it even more. I have the faith in you !

[mathbzh]

Just work on your shooting range this summer Tony, further it even more. I have the faith in you !
He has it already... just needs Pop to allow him to use it.

[Dartherus]

Tony now is the best point guard in the NBA in the sense of Arenas and AI.

Tony is a better player than Nash.


I still would like to see 7 or 8 assists / game since his team does have TD and Manu.


He definitely deserved the MVP.
Wasn't the real NBA final against PHOENIX and not this joke against the East champion?

Wasn't Parker clearly behind Manu and Tim in such series? how come this MVP is so 'deserved' then?

What I agree is that Parker need to develop more court vision, to become more effective, I can't accept a PG having few assist with a roster like Spurs, rich in scoring options.

[SpursIndonesia]

LOL, another Tony's hater is crying right when his team won another championship ! :lol

Come on Tony, make them crying even more ! So many thick heads in this forum just keep amaze me.

[anakha]

Eh, let 'em hate.

And let Tony keep owning each and every single one of 'em. :toast

[Dartherus]

LOL, another Tony's hater is crying right when his team won another championship ! :lol

Come on Tony, make them crying even more ! So many thick heads in this forum just keep amaze me.
hater? what is false in the observation that the real NBA final was against Phoenix and that Tony was far behind Manu and Tim in such series?

Since when bringing down to earth exagerated comments is being a hater?

[spursfan09]

hater? what is false in the observation that the real NBA final was against Phoenix and that Tony was far behind Manu and Tim in such series?

Since when bringing down to earth exagerated comments is being a hater?

The reality is that the NBA finals were Spurs vs Cavs.... And Tony was simply the best player. So get over it. Tony is the MVP!

[Sec24Row7]

ROFL Tony has 3 rings and a finals MVP...

Tony > Kobe

[smeagol]

And Spurs Fans have been hating on TP for the longest time. Go figure.

Props to ducks for standing behind Tony through thick and thin (no props for you pato when you hate on Manu, though)

[Dartherus]

The reality is that the NBA finals were Spurs vs Cavs.... And Tony was simply the best player. So get over it. Tony is the MVP!
Why don't you improve your basketball knowledge instead of writing like a typical fan who can only evaluate scoring and little else?

I'm not talking about this MVP trophy, I'm talking about Parker being over hyped, denying importance to a pair of players that are more important to Spurs when the moments are difficult: Tim and Manu....

If you'd know about Basketball, strategy, tactics, you'd realize that without the HUGE contribution of Tim and Manu (not only their scoring, but about the important intangibles they bring), Spurs wouldn't have arrived into the NBA official final, against a team like Cavs, who were clearly less dangerous than the Suns, Dallas or even Utah....

...and in those 2 more difficult series, Tim and Manu were by far the best Spurs, not Tony.

Parkers always do great in regular season or when there's no great oposition, but when the problems arise, there are Tim and Manu, not Tony...when was the last time you saw Tony bringing back an almost lost game?

OTOH, when was the last time you saw Tony had a great game regarding DIRECTING, not only great games regarding scoring? what kind of 'point guard' coud that be?

[spursfan09]

Why don't you improve your basketball knowledge instead of writing like a typical fan who can only evaluate scoring and little else?

I'm not talking about this MVP trophy, I'm talking about Prker being over hyped, denying iimportance to a pair of players that are more important to Spurs when the moments are difficult, Tim and Manu....

If you'd know about Basketball, strategy, tactics, you'd realize that without the HUGE contribution of Tim and Manu, Spurs wouldn't have arrived into the NBA official final, against a team like Cavs, who were clearly less dangerous than the Suns, Dallas or even Utah....

Parkers always do great in regular season or when there's no great oposition, but when the problems arise, there are Tim and Manu, not Tony...when was the last time you saw Tony bringing back an almost lost game?

OTOH, when was the last time you saw Tony had a great game regarding DIRECTING, not only great games regarding scoring? what kind of 'point guard' coud that be?


:rolleyes And you call yourself a Spur fan? kind of a sad that I would have to defend Tony Parker agianst another Spur fan. Hater

[Dartherus]

:rolleyes And you call yourself a Spur fan? kind of a sad that I would have to defend Tony Parker agianst another Spur fan. Hater
What's wrong with bringing basketball knowledge to a fan forum? A good fan is the one who do nothing when he sees something written with lack of basketball knowledge?

Why teaching people to analyze beyond just scoring is hating a player? care to explain?

[Kori Ellis]

Wasn't Parker clearly behind Manu and Tim in such series? how come this MVP is so 'deserved' then?



No, he wasn't. He averaged 21 and 6 against the Suns and played incredible D against Barbosa.

[Kori Ellis]

Why teaching people to analyze beyond just scoring is hating a player? care to explain?

Because you are the one who needs teaching, so you can open your eyes and see that Tony does a lot more than score. The whole focus of the Cavs D was to stop Tony's penetration. His penetration is key to what everyone else is doing on the court.

[Kori Ellis]

OTOH, when was the last time you saw Tony had a great game regarding DIRECTING, not only great games regarding scoring? what kind of 'point guard' coud that be?

Most games Tony does a good job directing. And he also follows his coach's instructions - who told him to shoot upwards of 20-25 times a game in these playoffs if necessary.

[timvp]

Spurs wouldn't have arrived into the NBA official final, against a team like Cavs, who were clearly less dangerous than the Suns, Dallas or even Utah....

...and in those 2 more difficult series, Tim and Manu were by far the best Spurs, not Tony.

:lol

I'm guessing you didn't watch many games in the playoffs. Against Denver, Parker clearly had the better series. Not even really debatable.

In the Suns series, Parker was also the better player. Manu had a huge second half in Game 5 and played his best game of the season in Game 6, but he had three full games where he was substantially sub-Manu level. In those three games, he averaged 8 points, shot 25% and had a plus/minus of -17. For the series, Parker averaged 21 points, 6 assists and led the team in plus/minus in the series with a +24 (Manu was a +2 in the series). And you don't want to even begin adding in the defense because that would make your case look even worse.

The Jazz series was probably the closest series. Tony played better in Games 2, 3 and 5. Manu played better in Games 1 and 4. But because Game 4 was the key game to that series, I'd say they both played equally as well. They tied in plus/minus for the series so I think it's safe to say it was a wash.

I don't get why supposed Spurs fans even make it a competition between the two players. Manu was the second star in the 2005 championship. Parker was probably the second star in the 2007 championship. But really, who cares? They both are very good players and they both just want to win. And in 2005 and 2007, they won.

It's not a competition between them to see who can play better. In one string of games, Manu is going to be the better player. In another string of games, Parker is going to be a better player. When you have two players so close in talent who aren't the main focal point of the team, it's going to just depend on who is rolling that year. Bottomline is it's about winning and the Spurs won it.

:smokin

[Kermit]

i've never understood why some people find it necessary to tear down a player on a team just to prop another one up. why? is it not enough that we just won the fucking championship? tony's become a great player, a far cry from his free-wheeling, youthful past which for some reason he can't seem to shake. the guy just won the mvp of the finals, so he's doing something right. let's congratulate him and the team and pray that they can do it again next year instead of calling him overhyped and shitting on him to make two other players who could give less of a shit look good.

[SequSpur]

:lmao @ Dartherus

[Dartherus]

Most games Tony does a good job directing. And he also follows his coach's instructions - who told him to shoot upwards of 20-25 times a game in these playoffs if necessary.
Did you read I said GREAT not just 'good'? when was the last time of Parker having GREAT direction?

Or, when was the last time Parker had a 4th querter, like the one Manu had in the ONLY closed game of the final? or in former games where the team was in deep trouble?

BTW You must really watch more European basketball, to learn concepts that make you realize that Parker intagibles are FAR, VERY FAR of the intangibles that players with HIGH BASKETBALL IQ like Tim, Manu, Oberto or Horry, can provide.

[timvp]

Or, when was the last time Parker had a 4th querter, like the one Manu had in the ONLY closed game of the final?

Uh did you watch Game 3? That'd answer everything in that sentence.

[aaronstampler]

:lol

I'm guessing you didn't watch many games in the playoffs. Against Denver, Parker clearly had the better series. Not even really debatable.

In the Suns series, Parker was also the better player. Manu had a huge second half in Game 5 and played his best game of the season in Game 6, but he had three full games where he was substantially sub-Manu level. In those three games, he averaged 8 points, shot 25% and had a plus/minus of -17. For the series, Parker averaged 21 points, 6 assists and led the team in plus/minus in the series with a +24 (Manu was a +2 in the series). And you don't want to even begin adding in the defense because that would make your case look even worse.

The Jazz series was probably the closest series. Tony played better in Games 2, 3 and 5. Manu played better in Games 1 and 4. But because Game 4 was the key game to that series, I'd say they both played equally as well. They tied in plus/minus for the series so I think it's safe to say it was a wash.

I don't get why supposed Spurs fans even make it a competition between the two players. Manu was the second star in the 2005 championship. Parker was probably the second star in the 2007 championship. But really, who cares? They both are very good players and they both just want to win. And in 2005 and 2007, they won.

It's not a competition between them to see who can play better. In one string of games, Manu is going to be the better player. In another string of games, Parker is going to be a better player. When you have two players so close in talent who aren't the main focal point of the team, it's going to just depend on who is rolling that year. Bottomline is it's about winning and the Spurs won it.

:smokin


I'm not disputing the MVP LJ, but if you're gonna go by +/-, then you'd have to give the Finals MVP to Manu, no?

And PS...

http://aol.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=42006&split=9&team=Spurs


I believe that's 3 years running now he's led the team in the postseason, but you know, it's only a legit stat when he's doing poorly.

[Kori Ellis]

Did you read I said GREAT not just 'good'? when was the last time of Parker having GREAT direction?



I guess you didn't read the part where I said he was told to shoot 20-25 times a game in these playoffs. He's a score first point guard. It would be ridiculous to want him to pass all the time when he can get in the lane at will and score. The Spurs don't expect him to be a pass first point guard.

But as for great direction, there were plenty of games in this playoffs where his passing and vision were great. Look at his multiple games with seven or more assists, plus a few of the other games when he had around six assists but his teammates were bricking.

[T Park]

not disputing the MVP LJ, but if you're gonna go by +/-, then you'd have to give the Finals MVP to Manu, no?

what a shocker coming from this guy...

[Kori Ellis]

What's funny is that Manu and Tim believe Tony carried them for most of the playoffs. Yet some fans refuse to believe it's true. :lol

[aaronstampler]

You two can't read. I'm not saying I disagree with the decision and I'm not saying I don't think Tony deserved it.

What I'm saying is LJ's defense of it, with +/-, is poor. Just say he won it because he averaged the most points and be done with it.

[Kori Ellis]

You two can't read. I'm not saying I disagree with the decision and I'm not saying I don't think Tony deserved it.

What I'm saying is LJ's defense of it, with +/-, is poor. Just say he won it because he averaged the most points and be done with it.

Um... I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about Dartherus. I wasn't answering Tpark.

[T Park]

Just say he won it because he averaged the most points and be done with it.

no he won it cause he played the best.

He also played great defense on Gibson and Larry Hughes.

Gonna ignore that too?

[aaronstampler]

Larry Hughes was inactive games 3 and 4, what does that tell you about how he was feeling in games 1 and 2?

Tony had a good series against Cleveland no doubt, but he also had the best matchup this series for him to succeed. You can't dispute that. This series was made for Tony to dominate. And guarding Gibson is as simple as putting a hand up on the 3 point line. He's not exactly a threat for a dribble drive blow by.

[aaronstampler]

no he won it cause he played the best.

He also played great defense on Gibson and Larry Hughes.

Gonna ignore that too?


It's just funny to me. When it comes to Tony, you magically notice all the intangibles. When it's Manu, all you care about is points, points, points.

[T Park]

It's just funny to me. When it comes to Tony, you magically notice all the intangibles. When it's Manu, all you care about is points, points, points.


god would you quit with the manu tony bullshit!!

Parker earned the goddamn MVP cause he played great all the way around and pretty much was the best player on the team in all 4 games.

BY FAR AND AWAY.


Christ. Its always gotta be this bullshit "wahhh manu this wahhh manu"

I thought after the Finals MAYBE Parker would shut you haters up.

But now you guys dig to new depths congrats :tu :rolleyes

[T Park]

Larry Hughes was inactive games 3 and 4, what does that tell you about how he was feeling in games 1 and 2?

Tony had a good series against Cleveland no doubt, but he also had the best matchup this series for him to succeed. You can't dispute that. This series was made for Tony to dominate. And guarding Gibson is as simple as putting a hand up on the 3 point line. He's not exactly a threat for a dribble drive blow by.

Larry Hughes also put up 10 and 10 in 5 and against Detroit.

So he could still score, parker was just embarassing him so bad he had to step aside.

guarding Gibson is NOT as easy as that.

Gibson can drive to the hole, parker just played good defense.

As much as you don't like to admit it.

[aaronstampler]

god would you quit with the manu tony bullshit!!

Parker earned the goddamn MVP cause he played great all the way around and pretty much was the best player on the team in all 4 games.

BY FAR AND AWAY.


Christ. Its always gotta be this bullshit "wahhh manu this wahhh manu"

I thought after the Finals MAYBE Parker would shut you haters up.

But now you guys dig to new depths congrats :tu :rolleyes

Best Player...

Game 1: Tim
Game 2: Robert
Game 3: Bruce
Game 4: Manu

You could argue that Tony won it because A) He scored the most points and B) He was probably the most consistent over the four games. He never had a "bad" game in any of the four. But if you define best as most points, then congratulations.

[timvp]

I'm not disputing the MVP LJ, but if you're gonna go by +/-, then you'd have to give the Finals MVP to Manu, no?

First off, good to see you found your way off the shower rod. :toast

Second of all, props to Manu for his +47 against the Cavs. He was vastly superior to any bench player they could put on him. Manu was a huge part of the championship and anyone who thinks differently doesn't know much about basketball or the Spurs.

Thirdly, I've never said I would have voted for Parker as MVP. Duncan naturally has a great case ... and then there's Bowen. But I am happy for Parker because he's taken more undeserved criticism about his performances in the playoffs over the years than anyone on the team.


And PS...

http://aol.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=42006&split=9&team=Spurs

I believe that's 3 years running now he's led the team in the postseason, but you know, it's only a legit stat when he's doing poorly.

Again, props to Manu. The first time he leads the team in plus/minus the whole playoffs is after the final game. Good timing.

But seeing how you like trashing the Cavs, I'm awaiting your asterisk seeing how 47 out of that 90 came against Cleveland. In every other series, Manu didn't finish higher than 4th in plus/minus.

[timvp]

You two can't read. I'm not saying I disagree with the decision and I'm not saying I don't think Tony deserved it.

What I'm saying is LJ's defense of it, with +/-, is poor. Just say he won it because he averaged the most points and be done with it.

Actually, you can't read if you think I used +/- as a defense to his MVP ... since I never said I thought he was the MVP to begin with.

[timvp]

Tony had a good series against Cleveland no doubt, but he also had the best matchup this series for him to succeed.

Parker and Manu had pretty much even matchups. Who was the defensive stopper they could put on Manu?

[whottt]

Manu is still capable of bigger explosions(offensively and defensively) than Parker...but Parker looks like he has finally turned the corner of being consistent, and that is something that still plagues Manu.


Consistency is the #1 thing that defines a SuperStar...lots of guys are capable of putting up a 20 and 10...but Duncan does it almost every night, against all caliber of comp. That's what makes him Duncan. Parker appears to have finally added this to his game...that's why he won the Finals MVP...because for 4 games straight he was either the first or second best offensive player on the team.

Manu has never been consistent...if he could play at his optimum level game in and game out...not only would he have a shot at finals MVP...he'd have a shot at regular season MVP as well.

[aaronstampler]

Parker and Manu had pretty much even matchups. Who was the defensive stopper they could put on Manu?


I believe they tried LeBron on him a few times there in Game 4. Didn't work out too well. Anyway, take your little snide shots at Manu all you want. At least he closed out the series and redeemed himself for Game 3. And we got another ring. I know you're not a complete idiot at least. Can't say the same for TPark.


I say congratulations to Tony. He stepped up huge most of these playoffs and I can no longer criticize him for shrinking when it counts. I'm very happy he's on our team and I hope he leads us to a couple more rings before Tim and Manu hang 'em up.

The Finals didn't quite end the way I would've written it (I wanted a high scoring game, with James having one strong performance at least, because I was impressed with his classiness after Game 3. I was hoping for 99-97 Cavs, with all big three for Spurs playing well, and Manu passing to Fin for a three at the buzzer and a 100-99 win) but that fourth quarter was pretty awesome and I'm very happy the team peaked at the right time.

There was so much negativity on this board for long, about the team, about individual players, it's nice for the team to win and shut everyone up (especially bandwagon fans and the trolls).

And if you must know, the reason I'm just posting now is because I was moving from San Diego the past two days and had no internet access. But thanks for asking, really.

[aaronstampler]

Manu has never been consistent...if he could play at his optimum level game in and game out...not only would he have a shot at finals MVP...he'd have a shot at regular season MVP as well.


A lot of that is just shots, Whottt. If a guy like Kobe is going to take 25 shots every game, then he will get his points every game, regardless of how well he is shooting. Kobe can have a miserable shooting night and still crack 20 points, just from shot volume.

Manu will have some nights where he takes just 6 or 8 shots the whole game, and he's not going to do a big night points wise when that happens. That's just reality. I agree Manu needs to be consistent, but it's pretty obvious, some road games vs. the Eastern conference, he just floats out there and isn't into it. Sometimes it'll happen at home against crappy teams as well. He's just not wired to want to have a big game every night, and since he's got two other stars on his team, he doesn't feel that responsibility to produce every game.

I think a lot of consistency has to do with wanting to be "the man" and he just doesn't want to be. He's already treated like a God in Argentina, and I don't think he wants that kind of attention in the states. He'll turn it on when he has to, in the 4th quarters or whatever, because in the end winning is still the most important thing, but for the most part he is content to be in the background if he can be.

[SRJ]

Wasn't the real NBA final against PHOENIX and not this joke against the East champion?

Wasn't Parker clearly behind Manu and Tim in such series? how come this MVP is so 'deserved' then?

I agree with you that Phoenix was the toughest of the four teams we faced in the 2007 playoffs, but you don't get the Finals MVP during the de facto Finals, you get it during the actual Finals.

Also, I love that every point guard is supposed to play the position exactly the same way John Stockton played it. That's rich. Tony Parker has a different skill set and a different mentality - he can't be successful playing anyone else's game. He, like every other player ever, has to play his own game.

I hope, one day, to disabuse certain fans of the "ONE AND ONLY ONE WAY TO PLAY THE GAME" delusion. I realize that's a very faint hope, but I'll keep trying.

[boutons_]

"how come this MVP is so 'deserved' then?"

The award is called "Finals MVP", not "Playoffs MVP".

[romain.star]

i thought before the playoffs If we win the title, it might be possible to end this stupid Manu vs Tony war but Aaron is still around...

[aaronstampler]

i thought before the playoffs If we win the title, it might be possible to end this stupid Manu vs Tony war but Aaron is still around...


First off, I already congratulated Tony. See post #149

I say congratulations to Tony. He stepped up huge most of these playoffs and I can no longer criticize him for shrinking when it counts. I'm very happy he's on our team and I hope he leads us to a couple more rings before Tim and Manu hang 'em up.


Secondly, check this paragraph out, from Truehoop's Henry Abbott...


Underappreciated in this series: Manu Ginobili. (Thanks to TrueHoop reader Anthony for putting these numbers together based on Popcorn Machine box scores.) This is one of those instances when plus/minus can make you aware of something that wasn't otherwise evident. Consider this: over the four games of this series, the Spurs outscored the Cavaliers when Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, or Bruce Bowen were on the bench. But when Manu Ginobili was on the bench, they were -18. In total, the Spurs were +64 with Ginobili on the floor compared to when he was off, +22 with Duncan, +18 with Bowen, and +12 with Parker. (Even in his "miserable" 0-7 Game 3, Ginobili was +11, second only to Brent Barry.) Yet somehow Manu Ginobili didn't even enter the MVP discussion.


Sorry if you need somebody else to point out the obvious for you. Tony won the MVP because he scored the most points and shot the best %. That's pretty much it. You wanna talk about passing and defense you'd give it to Tim. You want to talk intangibles and +/-, you'd give it to Manu.

I don't understand why anyone is complaining. He scored the most points bottom line, he was the only guy we had who didn't have at least one subpar game, he was consistent, and he deserved the award. How many times do you want me to say it?

But was he the best player in any one game? No. And did he have a good series in any area outside of scoring the ball? Well, he rebounded pretty decently. But yes, I've seen better passing from him these playoffs and I've seen better defense. Like most of the team, Tony played his best ball vs. the Suns and the Jazz and got pretty bored with Cleveland.

[spursfan09]

I'm glad Manu doesn't feel the way some of you guys feel about Tony winning MVP. Manu is happy for him. He's probably still getting drunk with him as we speak.

[ManuTastic]

Parker was fantastic all playoffs and deserved Finals MVP. But he is far from the best PG in the league. At least, if by "best PG" you mean the usual criteria: distributing, leading, getting easy looks for his team, and (usually) deep shooting. Tony has two great advantages over other PGs in the league: amazing speed, and Tim Duncan. Tony gets to the rack because he's blazing fast AND because Tim is sucking in the attention of the D.
Better PGs in the league: Nash, Kidd, Paul, Williams, Hinrich, maybe a couple others.
I love Tony and I think he's a great fit for this team. I'm just saying his game has fewer facets than a lot of other PGs'. He doesn't really have to shine as a phenomenal distributor because in the Spurs system Tim does a lot of that, and the other players are all smart and good passers (um, maybe not Elson).
Viva Tony, but if he were on a different team without a Tim Duncan, he would be much less effective. But so what? Pop has figured out how to blend him in perfectly.
I love how the Spurs offense is kind of built in 3 waves:
1-Tony pushes and tries to get a quick score. If that doesn't work,
2-Tim in the low block/pick n roll; if nothing there;
3-Kick out to the perimeter: Bowen/Finley for 3, Manu for sick shake n bake

Let's do it again in 08!

[ducks]

Manu is still capable of bigger explosions(offensively and defensively) than Parker...but Parker looks like he has finally turned the corner of being consistent, and that is something that still plagues Manu.


Consistency is the #1 thing that defines a SuperStar...lots of guys are capable of putting up a 20 and 10...but Duncan does it almost every night, against all caliber of comp. That's what makes him Duncan. Parker appears to have finally added this to his game...that's why he won the Finals MVP...because for 4 games straight he was either the first or second best offensive player on the team.

Manu has never been consistent...if he could play at his optimum level game in and game out...not only would he have a shot at finals MVP...he'd have a shot at regular season MVP as well.

I agree
when manu is on he is soooooooooooooo good

[upTD]

What's funny is that Manu and Tim believe Tony carried them for most of the playoffs. Yet some fans refuse to believe it's true. :lol

you were fooled

i

[ducks]

And Spurs Fans have been hating on TP for the longest time. Go figure.

Props to ducks for standing behind Tony through thick and thin (no props for you pato when you hate on Manu, though)
thanks :clap

[ForeignFan]

Cleveland game 4 mvp : manu
finals mvp : tony
playoffs mvp : tim, then bruce/tony/manu in a nutshell

[whottt]

A lot of that is just shots, Whottt. If a guy like Kobe is going to take 25 shots every game, then he will get his points every game, regardless of how well he is shooting. Kobe can have a miserable shooting night and still crack 20 points, just from shot volume.

Manu will have some nights where he takes just 6 or 8 shots the whole game, and he's not going to do a big night points wise when that happens. That's just reality. I agree Manu needs to be consistent, but it's pretty obvious, some road games vs. the Eastern conference, he just floats out there and isn't into it. Sometimes it'll happen at home against crappy teams as well. He's just not wired to want to have a big game every night, and since he's got two other stars on his team, he doesn't feel that responsibility to produce every game.

I think a lot of consistency has to do with wanting to be "the man" and he just doesn't want to be. He's already treated like a God in Argentina, and I don't think he wants that kind of attention in the states. He'll turn it on when he has to, in the 4th quarters or whatever, because in the end winning is still the most important thing, but for the most part he is content to be in the background if he can be.


It's not a matter of shots...Pop doesn't limit Manu's shots. It's a matter of Manu playing a price for the style he plays. It's really just that simple.


And you are also wrong in thinking Duncan opens up the paint for Parker...

Nobody opens up the paint for Parker.

Do you honestly think coaches are sitting there saying...let's give the paint to Parker and stop everyone else.

Seriously...if that's the case, you need to watch more Spurs games. Teams go to considerable trouble to keep Parker out of the paint, in fact, it's sometimes the entire priority of the defense we face, going back 3 years now, when Phil first made it a priority in 04.

Duncan has little or nothing to do with the PCT Parker shoots at...not for many years now, and it's not hard to see this, take a look at what Parker did the last time Duncan was out for an extended period.

Tony is his own man...he's a much more dominant and feared player than you think...you are behind the curve on him...coaches have been raving about his force of nature ability for years now.


And I realize you are giving him credit...I just don't agree with many of the criticisms you are making...they are about 3 years behind where Parker is as a player now.


The biggest improvement we are going to have next season? Is the Tony Parker that emerged during these playoffs. The SuperStar.


And Tony can pass...he's not Nash or Kidd, but he can pass, and I suspect we will be finding that out on a need to know basis this season....we really don't need him to pass much yet...still.



Tony Parker: Pop built, Pop approved. He's a stud.



As for Parker VS Manu...Manu is more accomplished and is a special player, his resume speaks for itself. But he's also not the player he was even 2 years ago. While Parker is still improving. I still trust Manu more with the ball than Parker...but Parker's time is here and now, and his upside is huge.

At this point...it's really just about a personal preference as to which you like better....we aint winning titles without either of them. Parker is now, he is an emerging NBA force...and Manu's career and accomplishments speak for themselves.

[ForeignFan]

HMF, i just realized I am vbookie rich ! :smokin

[ArgSpursFan]

Parker and Manu had pretty much even matchups. Who was the defensive stopper they could put on Manu?

I would have to disagree on that,go back to the vids and you´ll see how the Cavs played D. on Manu and It looked very alike The spurs D on Lebron.Every time He got the ball and was trying to drive to the baskest the Difense would colapse on him with at least 3 guys on the paint.
I didn´t see that kind of agresive D on TP,I don´t know if it is coze Tony is faster tham Manu(It can be)or that Manu aint as fast as he was 2 years ago,in order to drive to the basket before getting double or triple teamed.

[SequSpur]

ginobili was out of control.... we'd get a lead and he would turn the ball over and tie the game up... typical... then parker was there to bury everyone out for their mistakes...

this shit was a landslide... i called it ummm 40 games ago??? something like that.

Recoganize.

[aaronstampler]

Um... what the hell are you talking about? How did you read this quote:

A lot of that is just shots, Whottt. If a guy like Kobe is going to take 25 shots every game, then he will get his points every game, regardless of how well he is shooting. Kobe can have a miserable shooting night and still crack 20 points, just from shot volume.

Manu will have some nights where he takes just 6 or 8 shots the whole game, and he's not going to do a big night points wise when that happens. That's just reality. I agree Manu needs to be consistent, but it's pretty obvious, some road games vs. the Eastern conference, he just floats out there and isn't into it. Sometimes it'll happen at home against crappy teams as well. He's just not wired to want to have a big game every night, and since he's got two other stars on his team, he doesn't feel that responsibility to produce every game.

I think a lot of consistency has to do with wanting to be "the man" and he just doesn't want to be. He's already treated like a God in Argentina, and I don't think he wants that kind of attention in the states. He'll turn it on when he has to, in the 4th quarters or whatever, because in the end winning is still the most important thing, but for the most part he is content to be in the background if he can be.

and from that go on a rant about me saying Duncan opens up the lane for Tony? I never mentioned Duncan once in that whole thing. In fact, I didn't even mention Tony in that whole thing. I was talking about Manu and his consistency and I have NO idea what you are talking about.





And you are also wrong in thinking Duncan opens up the paint for Parker...

Nobody opens up the paint for Parker.

Do you honestly think coaches are sitting there saying...let's give the paint to Parker and stop everyone else.

Seriously...if that's the case, you need to watch more Spurs games. Teams go to considerable trouble to keep Parker out of the paint, in fact, it's sometimes the entire priority of the defense we face, going back 3 years now, when Phil first made it a priority in 04.

Duncan has little or nothing to do with the PCT Parker shoots at...not for many years now, and it's not hard to see this, take a look at what Parker did the last time Duncan was out for an extended period.

Tony is his own man...he's a much more dominant and feared player than you think...you are behind the curve on him...coaches have been raving about his force of nature ability for years now.


And I realize you are giving him credit...I just don't agree with many of the criticisms you are making...they are about 3 years behind where Parker is as a player now.


The biggest improvement we are going to have next season? Is the Tony Parker that emerged during these playoffs. The SuperStar.


And Tony can pass...he's not Nash or Kidd, but he can pass, and I suspect we will be finding that out on a need to know basis this season....we really don't need him to pass much yet...still.

Tony Parker: Pop built, Pop approved. He's a stud.



Seriously, I'm totally confused. :huh

[aaronstampler]

ginobili was out of control.... we'd get a lead and he would turn the ball over and tie the game up... typical... then parker was there to bury everyone out for their mistakes...

this shit was a landslide... i called it ummm 40 games ago??? something like that.

Recoganize.


Um... Tony had two more turnovers than Manu. What mistakes was Tony burying in that 4th quarter with 0 points? I guess you watched a different game 4 than me.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Seriously who here would have thought this couch humping manu homer Aaronstampler would shut his trap after witnessing Tony's performance these playoffs?

I didn't.

[aaronstampler]

Seriously who here would have thought this couch humping manu homer Aaronstampler would shut his trap after witnessing Tony's performance these playoffs?

I didn't.


I've already congratulated Tony a hundred times and said he deserved the award a bunch of times. Can't you read? Is public education in San Antonio that poor? LJ is the one who says Tim should have won it. Why don't you go jump on him?

[Kori Ellis]

I would have to disagree on that,go back to the vids and you´ll see how the Cavs played D. on Manu and It looked very alike The spurs D on Lebron.Every time He got the ball and was trying to drive to the baskest the Difense would colapse on him with at least 3 guys on the paint.
I didn´t see that kind of agresive D on TP,I don´t know if it is coze Tony is faster tham Manu(It can be)or that Manu aint as fast as he was 2 years ago,in order to drive to the basket before getting double or triple teamed.

That's funny. The whole Cavs D was focused on stopping Parker. That was their whole defensive game plan.

[Marcus Bryant]

Without the penetration threat on the perimeter and the speed in the open court the Spurs are relatively easier to defend ala 1992-2001. Do Spurs fans not recognize that the Spurs have had some of the best executing offensive teams in their favorite franchise's history over the last 5 seasons? Whether or not you freedom fry eating, Budweiser drinking 'necks want to accept it, Tony Parker has been at the center of that and his Finals MVP award was justly deserved.

Fuck, 4 championships later and I still hate Spurs fans.

[slayermin]

One of my favorite Tony Parker plays is from 2005. At the end of game five against Detroit, he defended Rip Hamilton, battling and taking an elbow to the face. He forced Rip into a difficult shot and the Spurs won game five and eventually the championship in seven.

Tony's defense and toughness is what I love most. He still needs to continue to work and improve his perimeter game and free throw shooting. But he is light years better than that set jump shot he had his first two years in the league.

Is he the best point guard in the league? I think he's right there. If you look at the whole package, it's hard to argue against him.

[whottt]

[B]and from that go on a rant about me saying Duncan opens up the lane for Tony? I never mentioned Duncan once in that whole thing. In fact, I didn't even mention Tony in that whole thing. I was talking about Manu and his consistency and I have NO idea what you are talking about.





Seriously, I'm totally confused. :huh




Viva Tony, but if he were on a different team without a Tim Duncan, he would be much less effective.


Not saying it in that particular post doesn't mean you didn't say it in this thread. I just was responding to that statement without quoting the specific post in which you said it...you know you said it.

[whottt]

ginobili was out of control.... we'd get a lead and he would turn the ball over and tie the game up... typical... then parker was there to bury everyone out for their mistakes...

this shit was a landslide... i called it ummm 40 games ago??? something like that.

Recoganize.



Parker does that too late in games, penetrate and TO...let's keep it real here.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I've already congratulated Tony a hundred times and said he deserved the award a bunch of times. Can't you read? Is public education in San Antonio that poor? LJ is the one who says Tim should have won it. Why don't you go jump on him?



timvp > herpes > aaronstampler


You look for any opening you can to make it look like manu owns tony just like you snap at me or anyone else for criticizing manu when he plays like garbage.

[ArgSpursFan]

Um... Tony had two more turnovers than Manu. What mistakes was Tony burying in that 4th quarter with 0 points? I guess you watched a different game 4 than me.

I agree.Manu totally owned game 4,that was his game.
But Tony was the most consistent in the finals,that´s why He is the MVP.

[ShoogarBear]

:lmao

I knew the usual suspects wouldn't be able to let this rest. I think they would rather have seen the Spurs lose because of horrible play by Tony than see a championship and him win the MVP.

[ArgSpursFan]

:lmao

I knew the usual suspects wouldn't be able to let this rest. I think they would rather have seen the Spurs lose because of horrible play by Tony than see a championship and him win the MVP.

wrong,as usual.Never said Tony didn´t deserve the MVP,but I did say Manu deserved the finals MVP in 05 here many times,and I stand by what I say.
I don´t care what the stats say,but .......
05 Manu>07 Tony.
BTW,it´s great to finally see Tony in the same page as Timmy and Manu in important games like the playoffs and the finals.

[gregpschneid]

Tony was the 4th best point guard in the playoffs.

steve nash>jason kidd>deron williams> tony parker

[smeagol]

Where are the Beno > TP posts now?

[smeagol]

I agree
when manu is on he is soooooooooooooo good
Even after I give you props you hate on MG . . .

[timvp]

I believe they tried LeBron on him a few times there in Game 4.
That was for a couple possessions. And since when is LeBron a defensive stopper?

Parker went against Gibson, Snow, Hughes and LeBron in the series. Manu went against Pavlovic, Gibson and DJones. I'd say that's a little tougher road for Parker since Snow and LeBron are better defenders than Pavlovic and DJones.


Anyway, take your little snide shots at Manu all you want.
Link?

aaronstampler != Manu Ginobili

[ChumpDumper]

You could actually see Manu salivate when he saw Jones was on him.

[timvp]

Secondly, check this paragraph out, from Truehoop's Henry Abbott...


Underappreciated in this series: Manu Ginobili. (Thanks to TrueHoop reader Anthony for putting these numbers together based on Popcorn Machine box scores.) This is one of those instances when plus/minus can make you aware of something that wasn't otherwise evident. Consider this: over the four games of this series, the Spurs outscored the Cavaliers when Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, or Bruce Bowen were on the bench. But when Manu Ginobili was on the bench, they were -18. In total, the Spurs were +64 with Ginobili on the floor compared to when he was off, +22 with Duncan, +18 with Bowen, and +12 with Parker. (Even in his "miserable" 0-7 Game 3, Ginobili was +11, second only to Brent Barry.) Yet somehow Manu Ginobili didn't even enter the MVP discussion.


Next time use a calculator. Those numbers are way off.

[Extra Stout]

I would have to disagree on that,go back to the vids and you´ll see how the Cavs played D. on Manu and It looked very alike The spurs D on Lebron.Every time He got the ball and was trying to drive to the baskest the Difense would colapse on him with at least 3 guys on the paint.
I didn´t see that kind of agresive D on TP,I don´t know if it is coze Tony is faster tham Manu(It can be)or that Manu aint as fast as he was 2 years ago,in order to drive to the basket before getting double or triple teamed.
The Cavs flashed a big man at Tony every time the Spurs ran a pick-and-roll. He was the one matchup they could not contain, because their PG's were either injured (Hughes), old and slow (Snow), and young, slight, and green (Gibson). So they had to focus as a team on slowing him down. It didn't work.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao @ the phrases "0-7 game 3" and "MVP discussion" in consecutive sentences.


A

(A+ if they had been in the same sentence)

[Extra Stout]

The two or three Manu holdouts who are actually bitter about the championship because Tony got MVP are worse than Sun fan.

[aaronstampler]

Not saying it in that particular post doesn't mean you didn't say it in this thread. I just was responding to that statement without quoting the specific post in which you said it...you know you said it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronstampler in post 156 of this thread


Viva Tony, but if he were on a different team without a Tim Duncan, he would be much less effective.

Um, it's pretty fucked up to type something and pretend I wrote it. I never wrote anything like that. Post 156 on this thread isn't even mine. And I doubt I'd ever write anything as cheesy as "viva Tony"

Please don't make shit up involving me again.

[aaronstampler]

timvp > herpes > aaronstampler


You look for any opening you can to make it look like manu owns tony just like you snap at me or anyone else for criticizing manu when he plays like garbage.


You criticize him when he plays poorly and stay silent when he plays well. Next time you rip Tony for anything will be the first. You're a bandwagoner.

[aaronstampler]

:lmao

I knew the usual suspects wouldn't be able to let this rest. I think they would rather have seen the Spurs lose because of horrible play by Tony than see a championship and him win the MVP.


That's ridiculous. I've been a Spurs fan longer than most of the people here and definitely longer than Kori. I believe Manu was 11 and Tony was 6 when I was a Spurs fan. So please get over yourself. I've rooted for them to win every game they played the last 18 years.

[aaronstampler]

Next time use a calculator. Those numbers are way off.


Like I said, those numbers were on Truehoop, Henry Abbott's site. And they were sent to him by some reader I think.


I believe Lenovo and Popcornmachine.net sometimes have discrepincies in their +/- numbers because one takes account guys coming into or out of the games on free throws and the other one doesn't take that into account.

If I had to guess, I'd guess Lenovo's numbers were more accurate, but I'm not positive. Just something for you to use for future reference...

[aaronstampler]

:lmao @ the phrases "0-7 game 3" and "MVP discussion" in consecutive sentences.


A

(A+ if they had been in the same sentence)


You realize I didn't write that, right? If I was Henry Abbott I'd be making a lot more money.

[whottt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronstampler in post 156 of this thread


Viva Tony, but if he were on a different team without a Tim Duncan, he would be much less effective.

Um, it's pretty fucked up to type something and pretend I wrote it. I never wrote anything like that. Post 156 on this thread isn't even mine. And I doubt I'd ever write anything as cheesy as "viva Tony"

Please don't make shit up involving me again.


LMAO man...fair enough, must have been the Manu av that threw me.

I am not going to go back to look and see if you wrote anything similar, I'll just take your word that you didn't...

And BTW, lmao I don't blame you for being offended at having that statement attributed to you...because it is an extremely lame statement. I would be too...and it is typical of what someone new to basketball and the board would say.

So I apologize.

[Corn on the Colb]

Nobody still thinks Parker is the best PG in the league, do they?

[aaronstampler]

Nobody still thinks Parker is the best PG in the league, do they?


I've got him 4th, behind Nash, Kidd, and Williams. Does Arenas count as a point? I guess he counts as a point, so maybe 5th.

Definitely would take him ahead of Billups (past his prime) and Baron Davis (health issues, shaky jumper) though.

Chris Paul might put up a challenge in a couple years too.

[whottt]

There's not a GM in the NBA that would give up Parker for Nash or Kidd.

[wildbill2u]

How many teams have three such great players that their fans have huge arguments with hundreds of posts over which player is best or which contributes the most?

I'll tell you how many. ZERO! Zilch! Ninguno!

We are so blessed with our Big Three I don't see how anyone can bitch about any of them or deny how unselfishly complimentary they are to each other. They are so special in this regard.

[SequSpur]

:toast

[SpurOutofTownFan]

The truth will come out eventually.

[telecomguy]

I guess you didn't read the part where I said he was told to shoot 20-25 times a game in these playoffs. He's a score first point guard. It would be ridiculous to want him to pass all the time when he can get in the lane at will and score. The Spurs don't expect him to be a pass first point guard.

But as for great direction, there were plenty of games in this playoffs where his passing and vision were great. Look at his multiple games with seven or more assists, plus a few of the other games when he had around six assists but his teammates were bricking.

I don't think Parker can get to the rack at will and score. If you recall any matchups between TP and Devin Harris or Deron Williams, both Devin and Deron ouplayed TP by a wide-margin. TP has improved a great deal in the past few years. His turnover to assist ration in particular, and also he doen't just go barging into the paint into the arms of 3 bigs anymore without a plan or an outlet passing lane available so his basketball IQ has certainly improved. And his confidence level has increased to the point that he doesn't dissappear from the entire game if he gets off to a bad start (like yesterday) and is also more clutch at the end of tight games.

TP still doesnt really run the floor as well as a traditional PG (maybe because he isn't one and probably will never be one?) and so when his penetration or jumpers are failing him, Spurs offense tends to break down to isolating DUncan or Manu or forcing Barry or Finley to take tough contested jumpers.

Having said all that TP is improving slowly but surely and I certainly can't question his heart or fearlessness. Is he in top tier PG? No, not yet but he is definitely in the top of the second tier in my opinion. Once he starts to show that he can compete against top defensive teams when they deny him the paint/lanes, that is when I know he has truely become an elite player.

Manu by the way is playing incredible basketball right now. No questions asked that he is the best Spurs player in the first 13 games although DUncan is starting to come around to his usual dominant self. If we have these 3 clicking come playoff time, I don't care who we face, we should be able to repeat!

[Kori Ellis]

If you recall any matchups between TP and Devin Harris or Deron Williams, both Devin and Deron ouplayed TP by a wide-margin.

Yeah you are right. Like in the 2006 playoffs when Devin averaged 14 ppg and Parker could barely walk and averaged 20 ppg?

[telecomguy]

Yeah you are right. Like in the 2006 playoffs when Devin averaged 14 ppg and Parker could barely walk and averaged 20 ppg?

I was talking more recently, and in any case, I don't think TP played that well in that 2006 series becuase if it wasn't for DUncan, Mavs would have beaten us in 5 or 6 games as I recall.

Anyway the point is, guys like Nash or Kidd or Billups still run their team more effectively and take what the defence will give them whereas TP has a tendency to try to force his will (penetration) and if that doesn't work (usually against teams with tough/fast PG or shot blockers like Diop or Kirelenko,etc.), TP would dissappear. He is more effective now but he still doesn't really know how to shred the defence like Nash can, whether it is by jump shooting (and there is simply no way you can compare TP with Nash when it comes to dead-eye shooting that Nash is capable of) when they are laying off him or by slick passes to give easy dunks or wide-open 3's.

But I fully grant you that he is playing even better this year than last year so I am happy with TP's play so far even if i have been very critical of him in past years. For few minute stretch yesterday when SPurs had DUncan, TP and Manu running around, zipping sharp passes to each other for wide-open jumpers or dunks, it was truely beautiful to watch the big 3 shred the Sonics defence!

[Kori Ellis]

Parker could barely walk and averaged 20 ppg?


I don't think TP played that well in that 2006 series

I'm not going to argue with you because, as history has shown, you hate Parker. So there's nothing to discuss.

Have a good day though.

[telecomguy]

I'm not going to argue with you because, as history has shown, you hate Parker. So there's nothing to discuss.

Have a good day though.

I am trying not to "hate" him (and I really don't even if you don't believe me -- i am just a die-hard Spurs fan who knows he can play smarter and have been frustrated in the past when he used to dissappear in critical games/situations) and it is getting easier every year!

Let's hope he can keep improving because he is already one of the better guards in the league and for Spurs to finally have a real elite guard who is capable of beating any team any which way would be amazing considering all these years we've won the ring without a dominant PG.

[ducks]

I am trying not to "hate" him (and I really don't even if you don't believe me -- i am just a die-hard Spurs fan who knows he can play smarter and have been frustrated in the past when he used to dissappear in critical games/situations) and it is getting easier every year!

Let's hope he can keep improving because he is already one of the better guards in the league and for Spurs to finally have a real elite guard who is capable of beating any team any which way would be amazing considering all these years we've won the ring without a dominant PG.
where you as critical on nash,kidd and gp when they first came in teh nba?

[telecomguy]

where you as critical on nash,kidd and gp when they first came in teh nba?


that is a valid point Ducks....but i believe Kidd and GP were playing at a very high level fairly early on in their career (correct me if i am wrong on this).

As for Nash, he didn't get as much playing time because in the beginning of his career, he was playing behind Kidd. TP was thrown into the starting line up very early on, hence his development has been accelerated.....and also Nash is an anomaly because he developed so late into such a good player although he always had the potential I believe. The problem was that his talents (ball distribution, floor generalship, passing, quaterbacking etc.) are subtle type of talent that is not easily recognizable.

anyway as i keep saying, TP is frustrating me less and less and this year is playing really well even if his jumper seems to have regressed. At least he is not losing the ball and is making some really good passes to other players, especially now that teams are running players at him whenever he starts to make his move into the paint. I think he can really milk this and do the penetrate-dish or pick'n roll with Duncan much more often. His scoring might go down but his assist total should explode.

[RC's Boss]

I don't think Parker can get to the rack at will and score. If you recall any matchups between TP and Devin Harris or Deron Williams, both Devin and Deron ouplayed TP by a wide-margin. TP has improved a great deal in the past few years. His turnover to assist ration in particular, and also he doen't just go barging into the paint into the arms of 3 bigs anymore without a plan or an outlet passing lane available so his basketball IQ has certainly improved. And his confidence level has increased to the point that he doesn't dissappear from the entire game if he gets off to a bad start (like yesterday) and is also more clutch at the end of tight games.

TP still doesnt really run the floor as well as a traditional PG (maybe because he isn't one and probably will never be one?) and so when his penetration or jumpers are failing him, Spurs offense tends to break down to isolating DUncan or Manu or forcing Barry or Finley to take tough contested jumpers.

Having said all that TP is improving slowly but surely and I certainly can't question his heart or fearlessness. Is he in top tier PG? No, not yet but he is definitely in the top of the second tier in my opinion. Once he starts to show that he can compete against top defensive teams when they deny him the paint/lanes, that is when I know he has truely become an elite player.

Manu by the way is playing incredible basketball right now. No questions asked that he is the best Spurs player in the first 13 games although DUncan is starting to come around to his usual dominant self. If we have these 3 clicking come playoff time, I don't care who we face, we should be able to repeat!
Guys like Deron and Paul get high assist numbers b/c they have a PF and in Utah's case, a PF and a center that can hit shots consistantly from 18ft (Boozer and West) and beyond (Okur). I hate it when posters judge his effectiveness b/c his assist totals. Nash would never avg. more than around 7apg in the Spurs offense. And Deron ppg avg. went up against the Spurs, who like Dallas, have trouble with larger PGs (Billups-Baron). Deron was not scoring 25-30 on other teams check the stats! Tony sets the tempo of the game from the tip-off, which is what a REAL PG is supposed to do! Do you really think a coach like Pop would have Tony on the court as much as he does if he was not running the team properly? And YOU may not think Tony can get to the rim at will, but Tim Duncan during this past finals said it best when he stated that teams MAIN priority on defense is to stop Tony's penetration into the lane, but regardless of what they do, he gets there anyway!

[RC's Boss]

By the way, Deron couldn't gaurd Parker AT ALL during the WCF. I can appreciate his willingness to try, but his D on Parker was horrible and detrimental to their chances of winning. At least Pop knows better and puts Bruce on larger PGs like Deron and Billups. If you noticed, Deron didn't get this big hype he's been receiving until AFTER that series! Before then he was a good point guard w/ lots of potential.

[Cry Havoc]

I was talking more recently, and in any case, I don't think TP played that well in that 2006 series becuase if it wasn't for DUncan, Mavs would have beaten us in 5 or 6 games as I recall.

Anyway the point is, guys like Nash or Kidd or Billups still run their team more effectively and take what the defence will give them whereas TP has a tendency to try to force his will (penetration) and if that doesn't work (usually against teams with tough/fast PG or shot blockers like Diop or Kirelenko,etc.), TP would dissappear. He is more effective now but he still doesn't really know how to shred the defence like Nash can, whether it is by jump shooting (and there is simply no way you can compare TP with Nash when it comes to dead-eye shooting that Nash is capable of) when they are laying off him or by slick passes to give easy dunks or wide-open 3's.

But I fully grant you that he is playing even better this year than last year so I am happy with TP's play so far even if i have been very critical of him in past years. For few minute stretch yesterday when SPurs had DUncan, TP and Manu running around, zipping sharp passes to each other for wide-open jumpers or dunks, it was truely beautiful to watch the big 3 shred the Sonics defence!

And in this entire spiel of a post, not once do you mention Parker's defense. Nice. Because we all know truly great PGs don't need to play defense. :rolleyes

[telecomguy]

Guys like Deron and Paul get high assist numbers b/c they have a PF and in Utah's case, a PF and a center that can hit shots consistantly from 18ft (Boozer and West) and beyond (Okur). I hate it when posters judge his effectiveness b/c his assist totals. Nash would never avg. more than around 7apg in the Spurs offense. And Deron ppg avg. went up against the Spurs, who like Dallas, have trouble with larger PGs (Billups-Baron). Deron was not scoring 25-30 on other teams check the stats! Tony sets the tempo of the game from the tip-off, which is what a REAL PG is supposed to do! Do you really think a coach like Pop would have Tony on the court as much as he does if he was not running the team properly? And YOU may not think Tony can get to the rim at will, but Tim Duncan during this past finals said it best when he stated that teams MAIN priority on defense is to stop Tony's penetration into the lane, but regardless of what they do, he gets there anyway!

are you saying TP get to the lane at will against the Mavs and Jazz?

Last year Cavs were severely undermanned as they had Boobie Gibson the rookie defending TP.

Let's get real. TP can penetrate against most teams.....i will grant you that but against tough defensive teams in the playoffs (D.HArris/Mavs, Deron Williams/Jazz, Billups/Pistons, etc.) you cannot tell me with a straight face that Tony is going to take over the game and go for layups after layups.

If you do, then you've clearly forgotten the Detroit series, 2006 Mavs series, and the recent game against Mavs earlier this month.

Teams can shut down TP in the lane by clogging it up with bigs, shotblockers and a fast or physically strong PG.

I don't think it's wise to assume TP can just go to the rack time after time against quality opponents..........which is why he is working so hard on his jumpers and even moving the ball around by passing and pick 'n rolls.

TP, despite your claims is no Michael Jordan even if Sequespur seems to believe that.


But TP is more than good enough to allow Spurs to repeat and win more championships,....but let's not build him up to be what he is not. A superstar or an elite top 5 PG....at least not yet.

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

Just one guy's opinion but here are his top 5 point guards, this is from 2006-2007 season:

1) Tony Parker:Just for the same reason Nash is number 2, Tony Parker is number 1, rings. Im sorry i had to do it but its all about how a point guard plays under pressure and i think 3 NBA rings and a championship MVP is pretty clutch. He may not put up the best numbers in the regular season but everyone can agree its not about the regular season. He just shows up in the playoffs with a vengeance. Just so fast and so calm, after this NBA championship he solidified his spot at number one for me.

Top 5 Point Guards (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/290176/top_5_points_guards_in_the_nba_today.html)

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

And in this entire spiel of a post, not once do you mention Parker's defense. Nice. Because we all know truly great PGs don't need to play defense. :rolleyes


Sorry this is from 02-03 but the point is that Tony has clearly gotten better on the defensive end and he has an impact.


3) Defensive Impact: Effective FG% Allowed
NBA '02-03 Roland Ratings
Player

Team

On Court

Off Court

Net
Parker
SAS 44.5% 47.5% -3.0%
Crawford
CHI
46.2% 47.7% -1.5%
Francis
HOU
46.0% 46.9% -0.9%
Terry
ATL
46.7% 47.4% -0.8%
Delk
BOS
46.6% 47.4% -0.7%
Davis
NOH
46.1% 46.7% -0.5%
Fisher
LAL
47.6% 47.9% -0.3%
Armstrong
ORL
48.5% 48.8% -0.3%
Harrington
DEN
47.6% 47.8% -0.2%
Palacio
CLE
48.3% 48.5% -0.1%

Offense being only half the game, we better take a look at the defensive side of the ball. As the point guards who push the ball will likely improve total scoring for both sides, the eFG% number is a better measure. Here we find Tony Parker as the top PG by a huge margin, ironic in light of the Spurs going all out to get Kidd.

Mostly you find that the top point guards don't seem to shave off much eFG% for the other side. On offense the #10 player was +2.1%, here on defense it's a mere -0.1%!


NBA Point Guard Ratings (http://www.82games.com/comm5.htm)

[RC's Boss]

are you saying TP get to the lane at will against the Mavs and Jazz?

Last year Cavs were severely undermanned as they had Boobie Gibson the rookie defending TP.

Let's get real. TP can penetrate against most teams.....i will grant you that but against tough defensive teams in the playoffs (D.HArris/Mavs, Deron Williams/Jazz, Billups/Pistons, etc.) you cannot tell me with a straight face that Tony is going to take over the game and go for layups after layups.

If you do, then you've clearly forgotten the Detroit series, 2006 Mavs series, and the recent game against Mavs earlier this month.

Teams can shut down TP in the lane by clogging it up with bigs, shotblockers and a fast or physically strong PG.

I don't think it's wise to assume TP can just go to the rack time after time against quality opponents..........which is why he is working so hard on his jumpers and even moving the ball around by passing and pick 'n rolls.

TP, despite your claims is no Michael Jordan even if Sequespur seems to believe that.


But TP is more than good enough to allow Spurs to repeat and win more championships,....but let's not build him up to be what he is not. A superstar or an elite top 5 PG....at least not yet.
NO ONE can get in the lane if it's clogged w/ bigs :rolleyes If he's been an all-star the past 2 years and more than likely this year... and Finals MVP, what the fuck would you call elite???????? What PG doesn't work on their jumpers if it's a weakness? Tony's been running pick -n- rolls for years now. You just proved this debate is useless :rolleyes

[timvp]

I don't think Parker can get to the rack at will and score. If you recall any matchups between TP and Devin Harris or Deron Williams, both Devin and Deron ouplayed TP by a wide-margin. :wtf

Parker averaged 20.2 points and 6.8 assists versus the Jazz last year. Williams played well but he was guarded by Bowen and the Spurs sent no help. The few times Parker got to guard him, he defended Williams better than anyone on the Spurs.

In the regular season last year, Parker averaged 21.5 points, 6.3 assists and shot 58% against the Jazz. Deron Williams averaged 15.8 points, 5.8 assists and shot 46% against the spurs.

And Devin Harris last year averaged all of 9.5 points and 2.3 assists against the Spurs while shooting under 39% from the floor. You still want to contend that Harris "outplayed TP by a wide margin"?

Didn't think so.

Parker certainly has his faults but bumping an old thread to post something so baseless is lame.

[timvp]

that is a valid point Ducks....but i believe Kidd and GP were playing at a very high level fairly early on in their career (correct me if i am wrong on this).Ok.

Payton played poorly for the first couple seasons of his career. When he was Parker's age, he was averaging under 10 points per game. Payton wasn't anything close to his prime until he was 28 years old. Before that, he was a very average point guard.


As for Nash, he didn't get as much playing time because in the beginning of his career, he was playing behind Kidd.In Nash's first couple seasons with the Mavs, he was playing behind guys like Erick Strickland and Robert Pack.