LeBron hit on Manu?

[AnotherArgie]

According to an article Manu wrote himself for an argentinian newspaper:

http://lanacion.com.ar/deportiva/nota.asp?nota_id=916631

Extract:

"¿El golpe que LeBron me dio en el mentón? La verdad, fue tremendo, me dolió bastante, pero creo que fue casual y no me alteró, lo tomé como una contingencia del juego. "

Translation:

"The hit LeBron gave me in my chin? Actually, it was tremendous, it hurted me a lot, but I think it was casual and didn't alter me, I took it as a game eventuality"


Does anyone have some video of the hit? I remember it was pretty hard.

[Oh, Gee!!]

flopper!

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Your title makes people think a WHOLE other situation.

[MrChug]

Your title makes people think a WHOLE other situation.

I know!!!!!!!!! I was thinking "HE'S MARRIED, STAY OUT OF THE MAN'S SHOWER!"

[sa_butta]

Your title makes people think a WHOLE other situation.I dont think he is from here. Im sure we can all figure it out, but funny none the less.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I know!!!!!!!!! I was thinking "HE'S MARRIED, STAY OUT OF THE MAN'S SHOWER!"
:lol

[AnotherArgie]

Your title makes people think a WHOLE other situation.

:lmao

Now I get it. You know, I learned english watching pr0n movies, that can explain a lot of things.

[sa_butta]

Number 3 play...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zuMJJJGCybI

[sa_butta]

:lmao

Now I get it. You know, I learned english watching pr0n movies, that can explain a lot of things.Well then your COMING along just fine.

[AnotherArgie]

Well then your COMING along just fine.

blue pills! :toast

Thanks for the video!

[Darkwaters]

Number 3 play...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zuMJJJGCybI

That top 5 list was horrible. It displays an obvious foul by LeBron and a blatant travel by Tony. Next time they should pick some plays that don't include obvious rules violations.

[CubanMustGo]

That top 5 list was horrible. It displays an obvious foul by LeBron and a blatant travel by Tony. Next time they should pick some plays that don't include obvious rules violations.

That WOULD seriously limit the available footage ...

[greens]

Yeah, Lebron definitely hit Manu with an elbow...right to his face. No foul was called, which surprised me...and actually Lebron made the shot and a one...that was during the big Cavs run. I hated that because it was an obvious foul and yet Lebron got 3 points out of his play.

But it did look pretty bad if you watch Manu take the hit. I'm glad he wasn't hurt.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, Lebron definitely hit Manu with an elbow...right to his face. No foul was called, which surprised me...and actually Lebron made the shot and a one...that was during the big Cavs run. I hated that because it was an obvious foul and yet Lebron got 3 points out of his play.

But it did look pretty bad if you watch Manu take the hit. I'm glad he wasn't hurt.
Didn't Manu get away with the same thing when he hit Ron Artest last year? Seems like Ron had to get stitches in his mouth for it. Probably why Manu called it incidental.

[smeagol]

Not a big deal.

[bdictjames]

LOL yall didnt realize Tony traveled on the #1 play?

[sa_butta]

LOL yall didnt realize Tony traveled on the #1 play?No shit, he took like 4 steps.

[Obstructed_View]

LOL yall didnt realize Tony traveled on the #1 play?
Tony travelled when Lebron hit Manu? :wtf

[greens]

Didn't Manu get away with the same thing when he hit Ron Artest last year? Seems like Ron had to get stitches in his mouth for it. Probably why Manu called it incidental.


I also remember Kobe's elbows flying everywhere last year too. One of Kobe's elbows was to Manu's face too.

And I think Artest also threw an elbow to Manu.

But once again, I never really said anything about the Ron/Manu ordeal. I was talking about this particular incident, the one right now that had happened. I never justified Manu throwing an elbow to Ron, although Ron threw one to him too.

If you read back to my message, you'd see that I never said that the Lebron elbow was NOT incidental. I just said it should have been a foul, not a flagrant or suspension or anything else. But just a foul. And it was ridiculous how he got rewarded for that with three points. That's all. I didn't say anything about Lebron doing it on purpose to hurt Manu...it was indeed an accident. Still, it should have been a foul, therefore, he shouldn't have gotten 3 points out of that play.

[bdictjames]

Tony travelled when Lebron hit Manu? :wtf
Hell no lol click the youtube link and the #1 play belongs to Tony.. he travelled big man.

[greens]

Hell no lol click the youtube link and the #1 play belongs to Tony.. he travelled big man.


Yup! I thought it was funny how the Tony travel AND the Lebron elbow to Manu were ALL included in the Top 5!

[bdictjames]

Yup! I thought it was funny how the Tony travel AND the Lebron elbow to Manu were ALL included in the Top 5!
Yep funny thing is that NBA had a close-up on Parker's shot. Cavs fans must be bitching bout it by now.
:lol

Hey If Bron gets away with it, why cant Tony eh? :toast

[Obstructed_View]

Hell no lol click the youtube link and the #1 play belongs to Tony.. he travelled big man.
Oh, sorry, I didn't click on the link, that's why I didn't know what you were talking about. Just FYI, everybody knows he travelled. Some of us saw it when it happened, others realized it when the TV replays clearly showed it and the analysts said, "Gee, Parker took about four steps there." :spin

[greens]

Yep funny thing is that NBA had a close-up on Parker's shot. Cavs fans must be bitching bout it by now.
:lol

Hey If Bron gets away with it, why cant Tony eh? :toast


LOL! I think that's why those two plays were included...To cancel each other out!

[Obstructed_View]

I also remember Kobe's elbows flying everywhere last year too. One of Kobe's elbows was to Manu's face too.
Kobe got suspended though.


And I think Artest also threw an elbow to Manu.Yep. He got suspended for it.


If you read back to my message, you'd see that I never said that the Lebron elbow was NOT incidental. I just said it should have been a foul, not a flagrant or suspension or anything else. But just a foul. And it was ridiculous how he got rewarded for that with three points. That's all. I didn't say anything about Lebron doing it on purpose to hurt Manu...it was indeed an accident. Still, it should have been a foul, therefore, he shouldn't have gotten 3 points out of that play.
My point is that, by rule, if it's incidental, then it's NOT a foul. There's no rule that states what Lebron did is an offensive foul in any way. The responsibility to avoid the contact is on Manu once Lebron's head and shoulders are past him. That's in the NBA rulebook. Seriously, what Steve Nash did right before he got slammed into the scorer's table is more likely to be called an offensive foul than what Lebron did, because there's a specific rule that states you are not to attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary if there's not enough room for you to avoid contact.*


*Rule 12B, sec 2a.(3)

[greens]

Kobe got suspended though.

Yep. He got suspended for it.


My point is that, by rule, if it's incidental, then it's NOT a foul. There's no rule that states what Lebron did is an offensive foul in any way. The responsibility to avoid the contact is on Manu once Lebron's head and shoulders are past him. That's in the NBA rulebook. Seriously, what Steve Nash did right before he got slammed into the scorer's table is more likely to be called an offensive foul than what Lebron did, because there's a specific rule that states you are not to attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary if there's not enough room for you to avoid contact.*


*Rule 12B, sec 2a.(3)



But aren't a lot of the fouls still incidental or in other words, accidental?

Or are all the fouls flat out "on purpose"?

Anyway, I honestly don't know too much about the foul rules. And the NBA rulebook is not exactly something I read on a daily basis. But what then constitutes a foul? Is it always called only when someone "intentionally" tries to hurt the other person?

Cuz I see fouls called a lot of the times for even the smallest things...I think an elbow to the face is pretty harmfull...But then again, I don't know a lot about the NBA rules at all. Just the basic stuff.

[Obstructed_View]

But aren't a lot of the fouls still incidental or in other words, accidental?
The two words don't have the same meaning. Incidental means that it isn't important. In other words, the rules don't cover that particular incident. If I accidentally hit you on the wrist as you go by it's a foul. Kobe's elbow to Manu's face wasn't a natural part of his shooting motion so he got suspended. Lebron was past Manu when the contact occurred so it's not Lebron's responsibility to attempt to avoid it.


Anyway, I honestly don't know too much about the foul rules. And the NBA rulebook is not exactly something I read on a daily basis. But what then constitutes a foul? Is it always called only when someone "intentionally" tries to hurt the other person?

Cuz I see fouls called a lot of the times for even the smallest things...I think an elbow to the face is pretty harmfull...But then again, I don't know a lot about the NBA rules at all. Just the basic stuff.
I think that's why so many people complain about officiating, because they misunderstand what is and is not illegal. Immediately after the elbow to Manu, Duncan got called for a foul on Lebron where there wasn't much contact, but it was a foul because Duncan reached forward and made the contact with his hands. It wasn't much, but it was a clear foul. If Duncan had kept his hands straight up and jumped straight up, even if Lebron had jumped into him it wouldn't have been a foul, even though there would have been a ton of contact. The difference between the two scenarios is that the defender initiated one and not the other.

The NBA rules on personal fouls don't take that long to read, and they are pretty clear. Knowing them makes the game much, much less frustrating to watch. You'll quickly realize that the calls that the officials miss aren't the ones most people complain about.

[greens]

The two words don't have the same meaning. Incidental means that it isn't important. In other words, the rules don't cover that particular incident. If I accidentally hit you on the wrist as you go by it's a foul. Kobe's elbow to Manu's face wasn't a natural part of his shooting motion so he got suspended. Lebron was past Manu when the contact occurred so it's not Lebron's responsibility to attempt to avoid it.


I think that's why so many people complain about officiating, because they misunderstand what is and is not illegal. Immediately after the elbow to Manu, Duncan got called for a foul on Lebron where there wasn't much contact, but it was a foul because Duncan reached forward and made the contact with his hands. It wasn't much, but it was a clear foul. If Duncan had kept his hands straight up and jumped straight up, even if Lebron had jumped into him it wouldn't have been a foul, even though there would have been a ton of contact. The difference between the two scenarios is that the defender initiated one and not the other.

The NBA rules on personal fouls don't take that long to read, and they are pretty clear. Knowing them makes the game much, much less frustrating to watch. You'll quickly realize that the calls that the officials miss aren't the ones most people complain about.



You know, I also found it interesting that a foul was called on Bruce when he kneed Nash in the groin, accidentally. Later, it was promoted to a flagrant one. But the thing is that I've watched a ton of games where I saw players "boxing out" when they were guarded closely. So I still don't get how that was a flagrant, when it wasn't like Bowen purposely kneed Nash. I mean after all the talk about being dirty by Amare, I don't think Bowen would be stupid enough to add to that by "purposely" kneeing someone, especially Nash, on national tv.

Not to mention that I remember Duncan getting kneed in the groin by one of the Suns players a while back. That player wasn't called for a flagrant or even a foul. It was said to be "incidental contact."

So, I guess, I was just wondering if you thought that Bowen should have gotten a flagrant for that, when another Suns player didn't when he did that to Duncan? Since I don't know much about the exact rules, I was just wondering what you thought about it.

[Obstructed_View]

You know, I also found it interesting that a foul was called on Bruce when he kneed Nash in the groin, accidentally. Later, it was promoted to a flagrant one. But the thing is that I've watched a ton of games where I saw players "boxing out" when they were guarded closely. So I still don't get how that was a flagrant, when it wasn't like Bowen purposely kneed Nash. I mean after all the talk about being dirty by Amare, I don't think Bowen would be stupid enough to add to that by "purposely" kneeing someone, especially Nash, on national tv.

Not to mention that I remember Duncan getting kneed in the groin by one of the Suns players a while back. That player wasn't called for a flagrant or even a foul. It was said to be "incidental contact."

So, I guess, I was just wondering if you thought that Bowen should have gotten a flagrant for that, when another Suns player didn't when he did that to Duncan? Since I don't know much about the exact rules, I was just wondering what you thought about it.

Bowen took a jab step. It's fairly common when someone is up on you and you have the ball. There wasn't a single basketball analyst that played in the NBA that I heard say that Bowen did anything wrong. The NBA kicked it up to a flagrant to shut up the complainers and because they knew Bowen wouldn't accrue enough points for it to matter. Unfortunately it validated the complaints at that point and was a big reason everyone on the Suns' bench reacted the way they did when Nash committed the offensive foul on Horry and flopped into the scorer's table in game 4.

[greens]

Bowen took a jab step. It's fairly common when someone is up on you and you have the ball. There wasn't a single basketball analyst that played in the NBA that I heard say that Bowen did anything wrong. The NBA kicked it up to a flagrant to shut up the complainers and because they knew Bowen wouldn't accrue enough points for it to matter. Unfortunately it validated the complaints at that point and was a big reason everyone on the Suns' bench reacted the way they did when Nash committed the offensive foul on Horry and flopped into the scorer's table in game 4.


Yeah, I thought so too. That's why I didn't get it. Also, there were commentators talking about "how some have called Bruce dirty even in this series" in reference to the knee to the groin to Nash and the foot thing with Amare. So it seemed the like the knee to the groin was made to look dirty in the eyes of the general public. Several commentators did mention it.

And yes, that was a definite flop there. I mean Horry just crushed into Pop, and Pop got up pretty fast...and the guy is older. So yeah, it was all out of proportion with the Nash thing as well. Cuz Horry was made to look like villain. Even he admitted that Nash flopped...

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, I thought so too. That's why I didn't get it. Also, there were commentators talking about "how some have called Bruce dirty even in this series" in reference to the knee to the groin to Nash and the foot thing with Amare. So it seemed the like the knee to the groin was made to look dirty in the eyes of the general public. Several commentators did mention it.

And yes, that was a definite flop there. I mean Horry just crushed into Pop, and Pop got up pretty fast...and the guy is older. So yeah, it was all out of proportion with the Nash thing as well. Cuz Horry was made to look like villain. Even he admitted that Nash flopped...
People have called Bruce dirty forever. Spurs fans should have learned to laugh it off when Ray Allen started doing it, because he throws a hundred cheap shots at Bruce every time they play.

[greens]

People have called Bruce dirty forever. Spurs fans should have learned to laugh it off when Ray Allen started doing it, because he throws a hundred cheap shots at Bruce every time they play.


LOL! I saw Bruce on Best Damn Sports Show in 2005 playoffs when the Spurs were about to face Sonics. And apparently, Ray Allen had already complained about Bruce BEFORE the series even started! LOL!

So yeah, it is a common knowledge that some players love to refer to Bruce as being dirty. Vince Carter is another one...lol. I just don't think it's all that fair. Bruce works really hard to be the best defender that he can be, and yet instead of getting respect, he gets players complaining about him. I guess we can add Amare at the top of the list, now.

At least the Spurs players/coach/organization knows what he brings to the table...as the fans do too.