Log in

View Full Version : WP: Hamas takeover shows failure of Bush's vision



ggoose25
06-15-2007, 07:34 AM
With turmoil in Gaza, hopes for a two-state solution dwindling quickly
By Glenn Kessler


WASHINGTON - Five years ago this month, President Bush stood in the Rose Garden and laid out a vision for the Middle East that included Israel and a state called Palestine living together in peace. "I call on the Palestinian people to elect new leaders, leaders not compromised by terror," the president declared.

The takeover this week of the Gaza Strip by the Hamas militant group dedicated to the elimination of Israel demonstrates how much that vision has failed to materialize, in part because of actions taken by the administration. The United States championed Israel's departure from the Gaza Strip as a first step toward peace and then pressed both Israelis and Palestinians to schedule legislative elections, which Hamas unexpectedly won. Now Hamas is the unchallenged power in Gaza.

After his reelection in 2004, Bush said he would use his "political capital" to help create a Palestinian state by the end of his second term. In his final 18 months as president, he faces the prospect of a shattered Palestinian Authority, a radical Islamic state on Israel's border and increasingly dwindling options to turn the tide against Hamas and create a functioning Palestinian state.

"The two-state vision is dead. It really is," said Edward G. Abington Jr., a former State Department official who was once an adviser to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

‘It is gone’
Abbas, whose bouts of vacillation have irritated U.S. officials, yesterday dissolved the Palestinian government in response to Hamas's takeover of Gaza. U.S. officials signaled that they will move quickly to persuade an international peace monitoring group -- known as the Quartet -- to lift aid restrictions on the Palestinian government, allowing direct aid to flow to the West Bank-based emergency government that Abbas will lead.

"There is no more Hamas-led government. It is gone," said a senior administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the administration must still consult with other members of the Quartet. He said that humanitarian aid will continue to Gaza, but that the dissolution of the Palestinian government is a singular moment that will allow the United States and its allies to create a "new model of engagement."

The evolving U.S. strategy would let the Hamas-run Gaza Strip fend for itself while attempting to bolster Abbas as a moderate leader who can actually govern and deliver peace with Israel. The senior administration official noted that Gaza has no territorial issues with Israel, since there are no Israelis in Gaza, so the Hamas entity there would have no stake in potential peace talks concerning the border on the West Bank.

Referring to Abbas, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told reporters yesterday that "we fully support him in his decision to try and end this crisis for the Palestinian people and to give them an opportunity to return to peace and a better future."

But analysts said yesterday that this strategy of dividing the moderates from the extremists -- which was the core of Bush's 2002 speech -- proved ineffective and may have led to the dilemma facing the administration.

"The less we try to intervene and shape Palestinian politics, the better off we will be," said Robert Malley, an expert on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with the International Crisis Group. "Almost every decision the United States has made to interfere with Palestinian politics has boomeranged."

Bush made his speech at the height of a bloody Palestinian uprising, after concluding that then-Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was too tied to terrorism to make peace. Bush ordered U.S. diplomats to never again meet with Arafat.

Under international pressure, Arafat agreed to name Abbas as a newly empowered prime minister in 2003. But Abbas quit within months, saying he never got enough support from the United States or Israel to be effective.

When Arafat died at the end of 2004, Abbas won the elections to replace him as president of the Palestinian Authority. Despite deep Israeli misgivings, the United States encouraged Abbas to hold Palestinian legislative elections -- and Abbas invited Hamas to participate, believing he could beat them at the polls. But Hamas won, giving Hamas control of the cabinet and of the powerful prime minister's post that had been created at the behest of the United States.

Then, Washington organized a financial boycott of the government, in an effort to showcase Abbas as a moderate alternative in his role as president. But the financial squeeze engendered Palestinian ill will toward the West, not Hamas, and Abbas earlier this year agreed to a unity government with his opponents. The United States had just begun delivering nonlethal aid and training to security forces loyal to Abbas when Hamas decided to strike and seize Gaza.

"The people who are moderate are not effective," said David Makovsky of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. "And the people who are effective are not moderate."

Next steps unclear
Rice has been to Jerusalem four times since December, seeking to rekindle peace talks and to help the Palestinians and Israelis discuss what she called the "political horizon" -- the contours of a Palestinian state. But the discussions never progressed far, largely because of the political weakness of Abbas and his Israeli counterpart.

Before the Hamas takeover of Gaza, Bush and his aides had debated whether the president should make a speech marking the fifth anniversary of his Middle East address, on June 24, in part to rebut criticism that his administration has accomplished little to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Aides say now that those plans are up in the air. It is not clear what the president would say.

© 2007 The Washington Post Company

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19215537/

--------------------

Is this a fair assessment? I mean I'm not a Bush apologist, but was his foreign policy really that far off on this one? I'm not famliar enough with Israeli-Palestinian politics to make a call...whats your take?

boutons_
06-15-2007, 07:53 AM
dubya's "vision thang" for Israel/Palestinians was as accurate as his vision for stealing Iraqi oil.

dubya didn't do fuck all about Israel for 6 years, no investment of his admin's time or priorities, until Condi cunt started scurrying around the M/E like a headless chickenshit a few months ago, accomplishing absolutely nothing.

dubya's Exec is going down as the worst geo-political disaster in US history, from allowing the attack on the WTC, to starting and losing a bogus war to grab oil, Katrina, Darfur, alienation of allies, shit-staining America with torture like any 2-bit un-democracy, to the jokey HLS, failing to get OBL, failing to win in Afghanistan, and general decrease in US security and M/E stability.

ggoose25
06-15-2007, 08:09 AM
I just dont understand what his vision was to begin with?

The whole point of diplomacy is to reach a compromise... how do you do that when you refuse to negotiate unless the opposing side has already conceded? :confused

Extra Stout
06-15-2007, 08:54 AM
Bush's mistake was that he thought democracy was the panacea for everything. Nations don't become free because Washington decrees that it be so. Nations become free as a function of their culture and national will.

At least now we know that the peace process was never anything but a mirage. the Arabs are never going to tolerate any kind of Jewish state in the Middle East, ever. Israel understands that there will never be peace with its neighbors, and that their existence will forever hinge upon keeping their enemies at bay.

The Palestinians have made it clear that statehood is nothing unless it includes ALL of mandated Palestine, and the eradication of the Jewish state of Israel. Any piecemeal gains will be used only as a new front against the "Zionist entity."

Nobody has to play pretend anymore. All that is left is a dog-and-pony show to appease the Saudi king that the Palestinian issue is not being completely ignored.

Yonivore
06-15-2007, 09:21 AM
Folks, this is why Israel occupied Gaza, The West Band, and the Golan Heights in the first place. Hamas is an Iranian proxy and they're probably going to go back to the old ways that caused Israel to put IDF forces in Gaza to begin with...for security.

Finally, all those who reinvented the history of the Israeli-"Palestinian" conflict will get to see the real history of what they've been re-writing all these years.

boutons_
06-15-2007, 11:40 AM
"his vision was"

A Palestinian state

xrayzebra
06-15-2007, 11:59 AM
"his vision was"

A Palestinian state

And what is your vision boutons? Pray tell.

Yonivore
06-15-2007, 01:07 PM
I'm sure the U.N. Security Council is calling a special session right now to condemn the inhumane acts of Hamas. Right?

Oh how hard it must be for Jew-haters to recognize there are really bad people on the other side of the conflict...worse than even the Jooooos!

ggoose25
06-15-2007, 02:17 PM
I guess, if this is another case of Bush fucking up, can the next president do anything to begin the peace process again?

It looks like with Hamas in charge, there is no way in hell anything remotely close to a Israeli presence will be tolerated. I think Extra Stout was dead on about that.

xrayzebra
06-15-2007, 02:26 PM
I guess, if this is another case of Bush fucking up, can the next president do anything to begin the peace process again?

It looks like with Hamas in charge, there is no way in hell anything remotely close to a Israeli presence will be tolerated. I think Extra Stout was dead on about that.

"peace process again?" :lol

Israel was formed in 1948 by the UN and there was
never a peace process before/from that point on.

As a matter of fact, much of the recent history for that
area has been either forgotten or ignored.

Yonivore
06-15-2007, 02:52 PM
It's been more like an "appease the terrorists" process since day one. Israel has done nothing but make concessions up to offering the PLO 95% of what they asked for only to have Yasser Arafat scream Intifada!!!

Name one concession the "Palestinians" have made in pursuit of peace.

Extra Stout
06-15-2007, 02:56 PM
It's been more like an "appease the terrorists" process since day one. Israel has done nothing but make concessions up to offering the PLO 95% of what they asked for only to have Yasser Arafat scream Intifada!!!

Name one concession the "Palestinians" have made in pursuit of peace.
Since their definition of peace is "destroy the state of Israel and drive out all the Jews," it makes sense that they would make no concessions to the Israelis in pursuit of that.

ggoose25
06-15-2007, 03:01 PM
So the whole break between 1993-2000 was just BS? It seems like it when you look back.

No pleasing them.

Extra Stout
06-15-2007, 03:05 PM
So the whole break between 1993-2000 was just BS? It seems like it when you look back.

No pleasing them.
The "peace process" is all about placating America's Arab allies.

Yonivore
06-15-2007, 03:13 PM
The "peace process" is all about placating America's Arab allies.
There was a break between 1993 and 2000?

ggoose25
06-15-2007, 03:20 PM
The "peace process" is all about placating America's Arab allies.

Yeah I guess its kinda hard to have moderate Arab allies like Jordan when you're unitlaterally supporting Israel kicking the shit out of Palestinans.

Jordanian govt is good people for the most part, but they do hate Jews like any other red blooded Arab.

xrayzebra
06-15-2007, 03:34 PM
Yeah I guess its kinda hard to have moderate Arab allies like Jordan when you're unitlaterally supporting Israel kicking the shit out of Palestinans.

Jordanian govt is good people for the most part, but they do hate Jews like any other red blooded Arab.

Care to tell me how many Jews have blown themselves up
killing Arab's. Oh, and have you ask any of the
Plaestinans if the rest of the Arabs have given them their
land back. Thought not!

UV Ray
06-15-2007, 03:37 PM
Bush's mistake was that he thought democracy was the panacea for everything. Nations don't become free because Washington decrees that it be so. Nations become free as a function of their culture and national will.

At least now we know that the peace process was never anything but a mirage. the Arabs are never going to tolerate any kind of Jewish state in the Middle East, ever. Israel understands that there will never be peace with its neighbors, and that their existence will forever hinge upon keeping their enemies at bay.

The Palestinians have made it clear that statehood is nothing unless it includes ALL of mandated Palestine, and the eradication of the Jewish state of Israel. Any piecemeal gains will be used only as a new front against the "Zionist entity."

Nobody has to play pretend anymore. All that is left is a dog-and-pony show to appease the Saudi king that the Palestinian issue is not being completely ignored.

:tu Exactly. It's hard to believe that this view of the way things truly are is so widely denied. It is beyond understanding how anyone with the slightest idea of the conflict could, in sincerity, believe there could ever be peace without the total destruction of Israel. Expecting benefit from negotiations with an organization whose goal is your total destruction, is for the most part, asinine. You are right...at least with Hamas in charge there will be less pretense.

ggoose25
06-15-2007, 03:39 PM
ray, i didnt mean to be sarcastic. i was really supporting that policy. I'd rather have some allies in the ME than nothing but enemies.

And you are right, I've never seen PLO budge in any negotiation. They are rather "Bush like" in that aspect of diplomacy.

BIG IRISH
06-16-2007, 01:13 PM
The "peace process" is all about placating America's Arab allies.and others from the ME
DEMOCRATS ARE GOOD AT THIS:^^^^

I.E.http://ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/CARTOONS/toon040907.gif

BIG IRISH
06-16-2007, 01:14 PM
http://ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/cartoons/toon061507.gif


http://ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/smllooktoon061807.gif

BIG IRISH
06-16-2007, 01:24 PM
"peace process again?" .....
Hey Ray

Maybe the Dim o craps can get Jimmy Carter to represent
the US Intrest? :rolleyes

xrayzebra
06-16-2007, 01:29 PM
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z273/xrayzebra/IranPeacePlan.jpg http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z273/xrayzebra/PLO.gif


Yeah Jimmy is just the guy to handle that situation. Wonder
if Bush will let him use Camp David for the talks? :reading

ChumpDumper
06-16-2007, 04:13 PM
So Bush is the right guy then?

I personally don't know what should be done, but the anti-democratic dissolution of the unity government will probably lead to the US and others resuming financial aid to the reformed government, so the West Bank should be pretty calm at least.

Wild Cobra
06-16-2007, 11:54 PM
So Bush is the right guy then?

I wouldn't say president Bush is the right man, nore any one man. I believe there will continue to be serious problems in the region untill someone has the balls to exterminate all the islamic extreemists. I doubt that will ever happen until someone attacks Israel in a serious way again.