When Horry goes to the Hall of Fame...

[tlongII]

What jersey will he wear?

[leemajors]

it should be something similar to what prince wore in the batdance video, except in thirds.

[Bear Grylls]

HOF?
































:lmao :lmao :lmao

[Spurminator]

He'll probably wear a suit.

[Kermit]

if horry goes to the hall, it loses what credibility it had left.

[spursfaninla]

Horry will not be a part of the Hall, although I'm not saying he shouldn't... He doesn't have the stats or the awards. You need to either be a bigtime scorer for a decade, be a big part of a championship team, or win an MVP. Otherwise its not going to happen.

[SRJ]

A lot of people wear jerseys when they visit the HOF.

[Spurminator]

Here's a fun trivia question.... What is the only team Horry has played for that DIDN'T win a Championship while he was there??

:lmao









:lmao

[ducks]

you better hope he wears a blazer one because if he is still playing blazers will not win anything

[MaNuMaNiAc]

the man has made more clutch shots than anybody in the history of the sport, what makes you think he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF?

[Bear Grylls]

the man has made more clutch shots than anybody in the history of the sport, what makes you think he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF?




Jerry West anyone?

[Kermit]

you are living in a fantasy world if you think horry deserves to be in the hall because he made some clutch shots. it's about excellence over your entire career, not just the final seconds of a playoff game. would i rather have anyone else take a shot like that? maybe reggie, but that doesn't mean that you were one of the best players to ever play the game. if there were a "clutch" h.o.f. horry would be its first inductee.

[Bear Grylls]

you are living in a fantasy world if you think horry deserves to be in the hall because he made some clutch shots. it's about excellence over your entire career, not just the final seconds of a playoff game. would i rather have anyone else take a shot like that? maybe reggie, but that doesn't mean that you were one of the best players to ever play the game. if there were a "clutch" h.o.f. horry would be its first inductee.




EXACTLY

[Spurminator]

Something to consider... If Robert Horry makes the Hall of Fame, that waters down the historical significance of what Tim Duncan is doing right now.

I'm not saying that's a reason to root against Horry or any of the other Spurs making the Hall, but in 30 years people need to understand just how dominant Tim Duncan was, and how he carried this team to 4 Championships (hopefully more). I think that will be underappreciated if the history books show that the 2005 and 2007 Spurs had four Hall of Famers.

Horry's been a great role player and has hit some great shots, but he's not in a position to do those things without the legendary big men he's played with, and he would tell you that himself.

[tlongII]

Horry will make the HOF. No doubt about it. The guy has made more big playoff shots than any player in history. He's the all-time playoff leader in 3 pointers. I personally don't like him, but I can't deny that he belongs in the Hall.

[JMarkJohns]

Here's a fun trivia question.... What is the only team Horry has played for that DIDN'T win a Championship while he was there??

:lmao

It's up for debate that he actually played for Phoenix. Yes, he was on the Suns, but he never even tried to be a good player for them. He wanted out so bad... All because of Ainge as the coach. Ainge, when playing for the Suns, in one of the heated Houston/Phoenix series of the mid-90s, chucked the basketball at Mario Ellie's head during a dead-ball. Horry immediately got the back of his teammate, but Ellie wouldn't let him do anything. Ainge claimed the ball slipped, which Horry admitted later on after Phoenix, led to him having zero respect for Ainge the player, which carried over to Ainge the coach. Thus, the towel in the face incident.

[Bear Grylls]

Horry will make the HOF. No doubt about it. The guy has made more big playoff shots than any player in history. He's the all-time playoff leader in 3 pointers. I personally don't like him, but I can't deny that he belongs in the Hall.


Uhhh..... yeah, Jerry West.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

you are living in a fantasy world if you think horry deserves to be in the hall because he made some clutch shots. it's about excellence over your entire career, not just the final seconds of a playoff game. would i rather have anyone else take a shot like that? maybe reggie, but that doesn't mean that you were one of the best players to ever play the game. if there were a "clutch" h.o.f. horry would be its first inductee.

There's at least one Celtics role player from the old days that I can think of that is in the Hall. Horry's just as qualified as him.

K.C. Jones:

7.4 PPG, 3.5 RPG, 4.3 APG, 38% shooting

Robert Horry

7.2 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 2.2 APG, 42.6% shooting

And he's #1 in all-time playoff three pointers made.

[ShoogarBear]

It's up for debate that he actually played for Phoenix. Yes, he was on the Suns, but he never even tried to be a good player for them. He wanted out so bad... All because of Ainge as the coach. Ainge, when playing for the Suns, in one of the heated Houston/Phoenix series of the mid-90s, chucked the basketball at Mario Ellie's head during a dead-ball. Horry immediately got the back of his teammate, but Ellie wouldn't let him do anything. Ainge claimed the ball slipped, which Horry admitted later on after Phoenix, led to him having zero respect for Ainge the player, which carried over to Ainge the coach. Thus, the towel in the face incident.Very interesting. I never heard that explanation before.

I'm guessing the Celtics have zero chance of signing Rob as a free agent, then.

[Spurminator]

There's at least one Celtics role player from the old days that I can think of that is in the Hall. Horry's just as qualified as him.

K.C. Jones:

7.4 PPG, 3.5 RPG, 4.3 APG, 38% shooting

Robert Horry

7.2 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 2.2 APG, 42.6% shooting

And he's #1 in all-time playoff three pointers made.


KC Jones was inducted in part due to his college career and his two Championships as a coach in 1984 and 1986.

I'd still argue he doesn't belong, and I wouldn't compound the problem by electing other undeserving players that were his equals.

But certainly Horry's moments will be in the Hall in some form. I don't think he's in any danger of being forgotten.

[Kermit]

There's at least one Celtics role player from the old days that I can think of that is in the Hall. Horry's just as qualified as him.

K.C. Jones:

7.4 PPG, 3.5 RPG, 4.3 APG, 38% shooting

Robert Horry

7.2 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 2.2 APG, 42.6% shooting

And he's #1 in all-time playoff three pointers made.
the fact that k.c. jones is in the hall is a travesty. let's not make that same mistake with bob. besides, including him is a big "fuck you" to all the players who are qualified.

and if k.c. is in the hall for coaching achievements, an apology to him.

[tlongII]

If Meadowlark Lemon can be in the Hall then Horry definitely should be there.

[whottt]

Link to the rule where it says the Hall is based on statistical production...and the statistical thresholds needed to qualify?

Thanks, in advance. Appreciate it. (http://www.answers.com/topic/fame)

[stepmonkey]

I'm not saying that's a reason to root against Horry or any of the other Spurs making the Hall, but in 30 years people need to understand just how dominant Tim Duncan was, and how he carried this team to 4 Championships (hopefully more). I think that will be underappreciated if the history books show that the 2005 and 2007 Spurs had four Hall of Famers.


Four?

[Bear Grylls]

K.C. Jones also won 7 Division titles, 5 Eastern Conference Championships, and 2 NBA Championships as a coach.





Horry belongs nowhere in the HOF.

[whottt]

You cracksmok er...people need to realize something...

Robert Horry's standard is 7 Championships...a 7-0 record in the finals.

That aint lowering the standards for the hall.

[Spurminator]

Four?


Best case scenario, assuming Manu and Parker make it. Not saying that's automatic.

[stepmonkey]

I think Manu is in because of his international accomplishments, but Tony? He had a great season and deserved the MVP, but he has to put up a lot more seasons like this to even think about getting in.

Oh, and Horry, No way he gets in.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Four?


This current team has only three hall of famers. TP, TD, and Pop.



Pop and TD are locks, and TP....well obvioulsy he has a ways to go, but thats just my prediction, already all these stats before age 26, 3 rings, finals mvp, 2 all star games( more to come ) and he doesnt look like hes slowin down.



#9,#12,#20,#21 will be retired for the Spurs.

[Spurminator]

That's why I said best case scenario. Just an illustration of how it can affect Duncan's legacy if several of his teammates make the HOF.

Tony has ten years to build his resume.... He's got a good start with 3 rings, 2 All Star appearances and a Finals MVP.

[Kermit]

You cracksmok er...people need to realize something...

Robert Horry's standard is 7 Championships...a 7-0 record in the finals.

That aint lowering the standards for the hall.
when they create a coattails wing, let me know.

[ALVAREZ6]

http://www.nba.com/media/rhory_ADB_627_070614.jpg

[stepmonkey]

This current team has only three hall of famers. TP, TD, and Pop.


I can just about guarantee you that Manu gets into the HOF, although it will be more for his international success. And adding NBA rings only helps his case.

[CosmicCowboy]

I actually think Horry makes it. You youngsters don't remember what a big part he was of that Houston team that went back to back.

[Bear Grylls]

Can someone tell me why Jim Loscutoff is not in the HOF?





I mean, he DOES HAVE 7 NBA CHAMPIONSHIP RINGS.

[stepmonkey]

I actually think Horry makes it. You youngsters don't remember what a big part he was of that Houston team that went back to back.

I have to disagree. I'm no youngster and I lived in Houston during their championships. Robert Horry was the biggest regular season slacker you ever saw.

[FromWayDowntown]

Got to thinking again about the Horry for the Hall of Fame argument.

I'd like for someone to explain to me why Michael Cooper isn't a shoo-in for the HOF if Robert Horry is. I can't see an argument to say that Cooper has a much more significant personal resume as a player than Horry does, which arguably makes Cooper more historically significant than Horry. Horry has 2 more rings and some big shots; Cooper has 5 rings to his credit -- playing a role like Horry's -- and was among the best defenders of his generation, earning a DPOY and 5 First Team All-Defense and 3 Second team All-Defense selections during his career.

If Horry is a shoo-in, I'm curious why I don't also see anyone arguing for Cooper's enshrinement.

[Avitus1]

The only way Horry will be in the HOF is with records. Like how many playoff games, he's been in, how many rings he has ect...

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

What jersey will he wear?

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/dt372001/DSCF2961.jpg

[Fabbs]

Um.... no offense but division titles and eastern conference championships mean jack shit...the only thing that matters is NBA championships...and he does have 7 of them!
And if you followed the Celts closely in those years, Nimrod Jones cost the Celts a couple titles IMO, esp '87s pivotal game 4. Up freaking 19 and so and he refused to use the bench and wore out the starters along with StallBall.

[gaKNOW!blee]

I can just about guarantee you that Manu gets into the HOF, although it will be more for his international success. And adding NBA rings only helps his case.No way man.

14 points a game belongs nowhere near the HOF. Manu is already almost 30 after just 4 nba seasons. And the way he plays who knows how much longer he can go. Just two allstar apperances and I dont see him getting many more.

Tony on the other hand is going to start becoming more and more the offensive go to guy. And only 25 after 5 seasons. Just 2 allstar apperances but back to back gives you the feeling that there will be alot more.

overall the difference will be, they will have the same amount of rings when its over, but tony is going to have the stats, allstars, and finals mvps.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

No way man.

14 points a game belongs nowhere near the HOF. Manu is already almost 30 after just 4 nba seasons. And the way he plays who knows how much longer he can go. Just two allstar apperances and I dont see him getting many more.

Tony on the other hand is going to start becoming more and more the offensive go to guy. And only 25 after 5 seasons. Just 2 allstar apperances but back to back gives you the feeling that there will be alot more.

overall the difference will be, they will have the same amount of rings when its over, but tony is going to have the stats, allstars, and finals mvps.read man! he's saying Manu will get in because of his international accomplishments. Care to name me a player that was won more internationally than Manu?...

I didn't think so

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Titles

* 2001 Italian League Championship (Kinder Bologna)
* 2001 Italian Cup (Kinder Bologna)
* 2001 Euroleague (Kinder Bologna)
* 2001 Americas Championship (Argentina)
* 2002 Italian Cup (Kinder Bologna)
* 2003 NBA Championship (San Antonio Spurs)
* 2004 Summer Olympic Games Gold Medal (Argentina)
* 2005 NBA Championship (San Antonio Spurs)
* 2007 NBA Championship (San Antonio Spurs)

Awards

* 1999 Italian League All-Star
* 2000 Italian League All-Star
* 2000 Italian League Most Improved Player
* 2001 Italian League All-Star
* 2001 Italian League Most Valuable Player
* 2001 Euroleague Most Valuable Player
* 2002 Italian Cup Most Valuable Player
* 2002 Italian League Most Valuable Player
* 2002 All-Tournament Team, FIBA World Championship
* 2004 Ideal Olympics Team
* 2004 Summer Olympic Games Most Valuable Player
* 2005 NBA All-Star
* 2005 Nike Baller Of The Year (fan poll)
* 2006 All-Tournament Team, FIBA World Championship

He is the only player in basketball history to win the Euroleague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroleague), an Olympic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games) gold medal, and an NBA Championship ring. He was also the first non-U.S. player ever to win both the NBA Championship ring and the Olympic gold medal (San Antonio teammate Fabricio Oberto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabricio_Oberto) is the only other), and only the second Latin American to be selected to play in an NBA All-star game (after Panama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama)'s Rolando Blackman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolando_Blackman)).
Go ahead and find me a player with a resume that's anywhere close to this and then tell me if he's not getting in as the most successful international player of all time.

[picnroll]

Nash's.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Nash's.jesus... INTERNATIONAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS!! as in outside the US aswell, get it?? Plus, last time I checked Nash has been a member of how many championship teams?

[Bear Grylls]

Can someone tell me why Jim Loscutoff is not in the HOF?





I mean, he DOES HAVE 7 NBA CHAMPIONSHIP RINGS.

[NASpurs]

No way man.

14 points a game belongs nowhere near the HOF. Manu is already almost 30 after just 4 nba seasons. And the way he plays who knows how much longer he can go. Just two allstar apperances and I dont see him getting many more.

Tony on the other hand is going to start becoming more and more the offensive go to guy. And only 25 after 5 seasons. Just 2 allstar apperances but back to back gives you the feeling that there will be alot more.

overall the difference will be, they will have the same amount of rings when its over, but tony is going to have the stats, allstars, and finals mvps.It's called the "Basketball Hall of Fame"... emphasizing the word "basketball" not the "NBA Hall of Fame".

[missmyzte]

It's up for debate that he actually played for Phoenix. Yes, he was on the Suns, but he never even tried to be a good player for them. He wanted out so bad... All because of Ainge as the coach. Ainge, when playing for the Suns, in one of the heated Houston/Phoenix series of the mid-90s, chucked the basketball at Mario Ellie's head during a dead-ball. Horry immediately got the back of his teammate, but Ellie wouldn't let him do anything. Ainge claimed the ball slipped, which Horry admitted later on after Phoenix, led to him having zero respect for Ainge the player, which carried over to Ainge the coach. Thus, the towel in the face incident.
Very impressive, few people know the full explanation for his beef with Ainge.

[FromWayDowntown]

I actually think that both Manu Ginobili and Christian Laettner have a better chance of reaching the Hall of Fame than Robert Horry does.

[ShoogarBear]

Coop is a good argument. Both he and Dennis Johnson should be in the HoF before Horry.

FWD probably meant the Laettner remark as stinkbait, but Laettner is easily a top 50 all-time college player and that qualifies him for the Hall. Hell, John Wooden is in the Hall as a college player (in addition to be in for coaching).

I always felt the Hall screwed up by not having separate pro vs. college places.

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/06/20/PH2005062000009.jpg



The Spurs need to place a statue of him holding his nuts after this went down at the main entrance to the at&t.

[Obstructed_View]

It's the basketball hall of fame, not the pro basketball hall of fame, not the NBA hall of fame. Manu is a lead pipe lock. He put Argentina on the map. The influence of that country on basketball has been huge, and he's the face of it. He's absolutely in the hall if he steps in front of a bus tomorrow.

[FromWayDowntown]

Coop is a good argument. Both he and Dennis Johnson should be in the HoF before Horry.

I had been looking for historical precedent that would suggest that Horry's battle for enshrinement is a monumental task and I think that Cooper's career is probably the best argument for excluding Horry.


FWD probably meant the Laettner remark as stinkbait, but Laettner is easily a top 50 all-time college player and that qualifies him for the Hall. Hell, John Wooden is in the Hall as a college player (in addition to be in for coaching).

Not so much stinkbait as it is an effort to demonstrate that the criteria for enshrinement are very different than most people might think.

To me, Laettner's collegiate career is better than a top-50 -- he reached 4 consecutive Final Fours (in an era when doing that is nearly impossible); he won 2 titles and played in a third title game; he holds several significant NCAA Tournament records (including games played and points scored); he won just about every national player of the year award in 1991-92; he made All-America teams in his sophomore, junior, and senior seasons; and he hit two of the defining shots of his era of collegiate basketball. To boot, he won a Gold Medal in 1992.

Unless the voters change their criteria for enshrinement from existing precedent, Laettner is a mortal lock for induction.


I always felt the Hall screwed up by not having separate pro vs. college places.

I don't know that it's a screw-up, but it does change the equation when you're discussing which players will or will not make the Hall. I agree with the premise that Ginobili is just about a certain Hall of Famer now, if for no other reason than he's eclipsed Drazen Petrovic as a guy who was great in Europe and then was very, very good in the NBA. I'm absolutely sold on Laettner getting in as well. I'm sure those argument are unbelievable to those who think of the Hall as an NBA-only institution, but clearly, that's not what it is, and I don't think there's any way that it can change at this point.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Hall should create a category for 'top role players' or some such.

[ShoogarBear]

Laettner's career is easily better than top 50. Probably better than anyone outside of UCLA or Bill Russell. But I don't wouldn't say that as a player he is, better than top-30-to-50.

[FromWayDowntown]

Laettner's career is easily better than top 50. Probably better than anyone outside of UCLA or Bill Russell. But I don't wouldn't say that as a player he is, better than top-30-to-50.

I guess my point is that Hall of Fame inductions are frequently built on careers. And nobody from the last 25 years of collegiate basketball has built a resume that rivals Laettner's.

To take that on to the more immediate point concerning Horry, I don't think there's any way that Horry's career gets him into the Hall of Fame if DJ and (more particularly Coop) aren't there. I can't imagine anyone in this forum making a straight-faced argument to induct Cooper.

[aaronstampler]

Just because the hall of fame made a mistake with KC Jones, it doesn't mean they should make it twice by adding Horry. The baseball hall of fame has like 20, 40 guys that don't belong as well. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You can't put a guy in the hall of fame if nobody will ever blame him for playing poorly in a playoff game. Whatever Horry gives you is icing, always has been, always will be. Nobody game plans for Horry and nobody ever says, "Man if only Horry showed up tonight we woulda won."

[whottt]

Horry holds a ton of NBA records....in case no one realizes that. It also could be argued that he was the first Big Small Forward and redefined the position for guys that came after like Garnett and Marion...

7 Rings...holds NBA records, redefined his position. Belongs in the Hall.

It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Stats...and just about every team in the NBA knows who Horry is and either hates him or loves him.


He's a HOF'er in deed and name if not in stat. And that's good enough...

Otherwise...someone kindly point me to the statistical benchmarks required for induction into the HOF according to the HOF....

[FromWayDowntown]

Horry holds a ton of NBA records....in case no one realizes that. It also could be argued that he was the first Big Small Forward and redefined the position for guys that came after like Garnett and Marion...

7 Rings...holds NBA records, redefined his position. Belongs in the Hall.

It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Stats...and just about every team in the NBA knows who Horry is and either hates him or loves him.


He's a HOF'er in deed and name if not in stat. And that's good enough...

Otherwise...someone kindly point me to the statistical benchmarks required for induction into the HOF.

What records does he hold? Other than having made it past the first round every year of his career -- a team accomplishment -- I can't think of any real record that Horry owns.

And if Horry's a Hall of Famer in deed and not in stat, then (again) why isn't Michael Cooper? or Dennis Johnson?

There are no statistical benchmarks, but inducting Horry would be a statistically unprecedented selection of a guy who wasn't also an absolutely dominant collegiate player.

[whottt]

First man to have 100 threes, steals and blocks in the same season.

Only man to start at 3 different position for an NBA champion(SF, PF, C)

NBA finals record for threes.

NBA Finals single game record for steals.

NBA playoff record for consecutive threes.

Only man to win multiple titles on 3 different teams.

Only non-Celtic to have 7 rings.

Pretty sure he is the only guy to play 15 years and never fail to make it to the second round.

He's got to be in the top 10 all time in playoff blocks and steals....if he doesn't have that, he will soon..and I imagine he will be the only guy in the top 10 in both(although Kareem and Hakeem might be).


And next year he's going to pass Kareem for playing in the most playoff games ever...

You have to be one hell of a coattailer to put up a resume like that.

[aaronstampler]

Best case scenario, assuming Manu and Parker make it. Not saying that's automatic.

First of all, Manu could retire tomorrow and he'd be a mortal lock. He was an MVP of the olympics and an MVP of the Euroleague and that's like automatic induction right there. It's the Basketball HOF, not the NBA. They give coaches, women and foreigners lots and lots of love. His NBA accomplishments have just solidified his induction.

As for Tony, I think he's not there yet, but well on his way to the HOF. He would help his cause if he could lead France to a medal in '08.

But as of right now, yes, I'd vote for Tony every day of the week and twice on Sunday before I'd pick Horry for the hall. The guy takes every regular season off, it's a joke. He's taken this clutch reputation the media has given him and run with it, where it's his whole identity now. Shaq and LeBron get plenty of shit (and deservedly so) when they coast until February. This guy coasts THE WHOLE YEAR. Gimme a break.

[whottt]

And he's hit as many memorable last second playoff shots as any player in NBA history IMO...including Jordan.

He's not just a coatailer guys...

[ducks]

HORRY brings alot more then stats in playoffs
not sure if he belongs in hall but he wins a ring next year it is quite possible

[whottt]

What records does he hold? Other than having made it past the first round every year of his career -- a team accomplishment -- I can't think of any real record that Horry owns.

And if Horry's a Hall of Famer in deed and not in stat, then (again) why isn't Michael Cooper? or Dennis Johnson?

They don't have seven rings, they haven't broken as many hearts, they didn't do it for as many different teams, and they don't have as many records or memorable shots.





There are no statistical benchmarks, but inducting Horry would be a statistically unprecedented selection of a guy who wasn't also an absolutely dominant collegiate player.

Not inducting a Non Celtic with 7 Rings would be unprecedented.

Not inducting the NBA's all time leader in playoff games played would be unprecedented.


I'd take Robert Horry over a ton of guys in the HOF.

[ducks]

manu is alot like horry
manu just plays great the last quarter
horry plays great the last quarter of his teams seasons
it is called playoffs

[aaronstampler]

Horry holds a ton of NBA records....in case no one realizes that. It also could be argued that he was the first Big Small Forward and redefined the position for guys that came after like Garnett and Marion...

7 Rings...holds NBA records, redefined his position. Belongs in the Hall.

It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Stats...and just about every team in the NBA knows who Horry is and either hates him or loves him.


He's a HOF'er in deed and name if not in stat. And that's good enough...

Otherwise...someone kindly point me to the statistical benchmarks required for induction into the HOF according to the HOF....

Funny, you say "Big Small Forward" and to me that's a fancy way of saying "Big Hairy Girl." The reason Horry lives behind the three point line is because he doesn't have the stones to bang with the big boys night after night.

I get a kick out of him saying he'd rather have Barkley's career, being a superstar and making big money but with no rings as opposed to being a role player with 7 rings. Oh really? Then why don't you get your ass in the paint and play like a 6'11 guy you are then?

I mean this is ridiculous. I make fun of KG and Marion all the time, but it's an insult to both of them to compare them to Horry. Both of those guys get 11, 12 rebounds a game as well as 20 points. They at least stick their noses in there. KG is a power forward, always has been. Marion is mostly a four these days and certainly rebounds like one. Horry is a smart player and a heady defender, but certainly not tough and definitely not somebody you gameplan for.

Should we put Steve Kerr in the HOF too?

I'd put Dennis Rodman in, even with all the sideshows, a hundred times over before Horry.

[FromWayDowntown]

Horry has averaged fewer than 10 ppg for 12 of his 15 NBA seasons and has averaged less than 5 rebounds per game for his career. His post-season numbers are marginally better.

As for his playoff records -- first, including the most recent playoffs, Horry isn't in the All-Time Top 10 in playoff blocks and he's 8th in steals. Being the only non-Celtic to have 7 rings isn't a record -- it's the answer to a trivia question. Holding the record for steals in an NBA Finals game isn't something that HOF induction is built upon; Kenny Smith holds NBA Finals single-game records, but nobody cares about that. I also don't buy that the record for consecutive 3's is, in any meaningful sense, a significant record.

Horry's played in a lot of playoff games, to be sure; but he's played in those games alongside 3 of the greatest big men to ever lace 'em up in the NBA playoffs -- to ignore that fact (or to pretend like Horry holding the record for playoff games isn't directly attributable to having played alongside those guys) is disingenuous, I think. If Horry had played with Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutombo, and Alonzo Mourning, I'm pretty confident that he wouldn't be in striking distance of Kareem's record.

[aaronstampler]

manu is alot like horry
manu just plays great the last quarter


Well somebody has to.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

manu is alot like horry
manu just plays great the last quarter
horry plays great the last quarter of his teams seasons
it is called playoffsIn a sense you're right, they are both clutch as hell

[FromWayDowntown]

They don't have seven rings, they haven't broken as many hearts, they didn't do it for as many different teams, and they don't have as many records or memorable shots.

Cooper has 5 rings and was a DPOY and an 8 time All-Defense selection. Johnson had 4 rings with 2 teams and played in 180 playoff games while actually making some All-NBA teams during his career and making 5 All-Star teams. All Horry has on those guys is 2 more rings -- garnered by having played with 3 of the best big men ever.



Not inducting a Non Celtic with 7 Rings would be unprecedented.

So, wait, failing to do something that has never happened is unprecedented? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

In any event, as noted above in this thread, Jim Loscutoff won 7 rings and isn't in the Hall of Fame.


Not inducting the NBA's all time leader in playoff games played would be unprecedented.

Because the NBA's all-time leader in playoff games for the last generation has been a guy who won 6 championships and 6 NBA MVP awards, is the NBA's all-time leader in points scored, was a no-brainer inclusion in the Top 50, had one of the best collegiate careers ever. Hmmmm, I don't think being #1 on the playoff games list was crucial to Kareem's induction.

Being high on that list doesn't necessarily auger HOF consideration. Danny Ainge is 5th all-time in playoff games, but I don't hear anyone arguing that he's a Hall of Famer. Byron Scott is 10th, but, like Ainge, I don't hear any arguments that Scott should be inducted into the HOF.



I'd take Robert Horry over a ton of guys in the HOF.

I suspect that most of the guys that you'd take him over are guys who are in for things other than their NBA accomplishments.

[whottt]

Horry has averaged fewer than 10 ppg for 12 of his 15 NBA seasons and has averaged less than 5 rebounds per game for his career. His post-season numbers are marginally better.

Again...show me where that excludes you from the HOF and I'll concede the point...however it doesn't exclude you from the HOF.




As for his playoff records -- first, including the most recent playoffs, Horry isn't in the All-Time Top 10 in playoff blocks and he's 8th in steals.

And I said if he doesn't have that one he will too.



Being the only non-Celtic to have 7 rings isn't a record -- it's the answer to a trivia question.

When you consider that the only guys with more rings were the greatest dynasty in Pro Sports history...I think it's more than just a trivia question. IT's an accomplishment.,



Holding the record for steals in an NBA Finals game isn't something that HOF induction is built upon;

It's a record nontheless.



Kenny Smith holds NBA Finals single-game records, but nobody cares about that.

Kenny Smith doesn't have 7 rings with 3 different teams and a plethora of playoff daggers that make anyone this side of Jordan envious.



I also don't buy that the record for consecutive 3's is, in any meaningful sense, a significant record.

But it's a record nontheless...add it up and that's two records he has...plus more.


Horry's played in a lot of playoff games, to be sure; but he's played in those games alongside 3 of the greatest big men to ever lace 'em up in the NBA playoffs --

And he's got more rings than any of them.

Magic Johnson never won a ring without Kareem...Kareem never won a ring without Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson...Jordan without Pippen, Bird without McHale or Parish...and Hakeem never won a ring without Horry.



to ignore that fact (or to pretend like Horry holding the record for playoff games isn't directly attributable to having played alongside those guys) is disingenuous, I think.

And to act like those guys would have had the careers they would have had in terms of championships without a supporting cast and IMO, some of Horry's shots...is just as speculative.

Game 5 FWDT...tell me we win the title without it...regardless of what Duncan does.





If Horry had played with Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutombo, and Alonzo Mourning, I'm pretty confident that he wouldn't be in striking distance of Kareem's record.

And if Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan hadn't played with Horry...I am pretty sure they wouldn't have as many rings as they had.

And I sure do think Horry might have been good to get Ewing a ring in 94...he was pretty damn good in those finals...and it went 7 games. I think we would have beaten the Rockets in 95 if we had him. I can think of one game he decided when the opportunity fell to him.


It's a mistake for you to attempt to classify Horry as merely another role player...he isn't that. He is an exceptional role player...if not a superstar.

He's a one man dynasty(supporting or otherwise)...he has more rings than all but two NBA franchises...if it's so easy to do...why hasn't anyone else done it?


Horry's a unique player...it's hiis uniqueness that is causing this debate, it's also why he belongs in the Hall.

There is nothing in the rule book to back any of your arguments up...only previous voting trends...there hasn't been a player like Horry previously up for induction to test those trends.

The name is the HOF...and he qualifies based on that name.

[whottt]

Cooper has 5 rings and was a DPOY and an 8 time All-Defense selection.
He also played with the greatest point guard and C in NBA history...did Horry?





Johnson had 4 rings with 2 teams and played in 180 playoff games while actually making some All-NBA teams during his career and making 5 All-Star teams. All Horry has on those guys is 2 more rings -- garnered by having played with 3 of the best big men ever.

I see...and how many playoff game winnners did they hit?





So, wait, failing to do something that has never happened is unprecedented? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

In any event, as noted above in this thread, Jim Loscutoff won 7 rings and isn't in the Hall of Fame.


My guess is that is because they had to draw the line somewhere with the Sixties Celtics...




Because the NBA's all-time leader in playoff games for the last generation has been a guy who won 6 championships and 6 NBA MVP awards, is the NBA's all-time leader in points scored, was a no-brainer inclusion in the Top 50, had one of the best collegiate careers ever. Hmmmm, I don't think being #1 on the playoff games list was crucial to Kareem's induction.

If it's so easy to do...then why hasn't anyone else done it?


Being high on that list doesn't necessarily auger HOF consideration. Danny Ainge is 5th all-time in playoff games, but I don't hear anyone arguing that he's a Hall of Famer. Byron Scott is 10th, but, like Ainge, I don't hear any arguments that Scott should be inducted into the HOF.

They don't have enough rings to make Jordan jealous either.





I suspect that most of the guys that you'd take him over are guys who are in for things other than their NBA accomplishments.

No...I just know that it takes supporting players to win championships...and a good role player can contribute more to a title sometimes than a superstar...and that there is no set criteria for HOF induction...


Fame is the key word...

Let's go do a poll and see how Dennis Johnson and Jim Loscutoff do against Horry...


Incidentally...Michael Cooper does think Horry is a HOF'er.

[timvp]

Funny, you say "Big Small Forward" and to me that's a fancy way of saying "Big Hairy Girl." The reason Horry lives behind the three point line is because he doesn't have the stones to bang with the big boys night after night.

I get a kick out of him saying he'd rather have Barkley's career, being a superstar and making big money but with no rings as opposed to being a role player with 7 rings. Oh really? Then why don't you get your ass in the paint and play like a 6'11 guy you are then?

I mean this is ridiculous. I make fun of KG and Marion all the time, but it's an insult to both of them to compare them to Horry. Both of those guys get 11, 12 rebounds a game as well as 20 points. They at least stick their noses in there. KG is a power forward, always has been. Marion is mostly a four these days and certainly rebounds like one. Horry is a smart player and a heady defender, but certainly not tough and definitely not somebody you gameplan for.

Should we put Steve Kerr in the HOF too?

I'd put Dennis Rodman in, even with all the sideshows, a hundred times over before Horry.

Not much quality to this take but at least it's not about Manu or Parker.

It's a step in the right direction :tu

[aaronstampler]

your approval means everything to me. Now take that thumb and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. And then post about it afterward, mentioning that your thumb doesn't stink because you have a magical asshole that produces an aroma of fresh cut roses so all your Spurstalk worshippers can praise you some more.

[timvp]

your approval means everything to me. Now take that thumb and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. And then post about it afterward, mentioning that your thumb doesn't stink because you have a magical asshole that produces an aroma of fresh cut roses so all your Spurstalk worshippers can praise you some more.
Also not about Manu. Props :tu

We can bet on it if you like. Set the over/under on 39% from the field for the playoffs. If Horry shoots over, you can write whatever you want about me or Manu and I won't dispute it. If he shoots under I can write whatever I want about Tony or you and you won't dispute it. Deal?
How'd that Horry bet turn out?

[aaronstampler]

you shoulda bet I guess.

[aaronstampler]

4 points, 4 rebounds, 41% shooting. Let's just make out his HOF bust now...

[Bear Grylls]

4 points, 4 rebounds, 41% shooting. Let's just make out his HOF bust now...


No need to, Whottt already has.

[whottt]

Still waiting for a link to the requirements for induction into the Hall of Statistical Benchmarks.....I mean fame.

[mathbzh]

Who give a fuck about the HOF???

[Kermit]

Still waiting for a link to the requirements for induction into the Hall of Statistical Benchmarks.....I mean fame.
No need. I'm sure that he'll be inducted on the strength of those consecutive three pointers. That sealed the argument for me.

[Bear Grylls]

No need. I'm sure that he'll be inducted on the strength of those consecutive three pointers. That sealed the argument for me.




His NBA Finals single game record for steals sealed it for me.

[whottt]

And a still waiting...hopefully you too will either become funnier, or at least more offensive....because we could be here a while.

[Bear Grylls]

Since Horry is getting in, might as well put Steve Kerr in.


Some of Steve Kerr's "records"


Second player in NBA history to win two championships with two different teams in consecutive seasons

holds the NBA mark for the highest single-season 3-PT FG percentage, hitting .524 (89-170) during the 1994-95 season

Won the 1997 Long Distance Shootout

And he does have 5 rings

[Kermit]

Still waiting for what? Confirmation from me that he belongs? You have a better chance sexing Mutombo. I would get on with the rest of my day.

[Clutch20]

Sentiment around the league seems to be that Horry's ID is too specialized to merit consideration in the conventional sense. So they say. Horry's modus operandi needs a special category for them to feel comfortable about any nominations taking place for him.

Duncan's stats and game will have scripters scatching their heads as to how to accurately headline and describe his body of work.

Tony Parker ditto, due to his effectiveness in the paint considering his height and weight.

Manu Ginobili also, Argentinian intangibles devil may care slashing, on and on...............




__________________________________________________

“They do a great job of their system and staying true to form,
making big plays in big moments,” Suns coach Mike D'Antoni
told reporters in Phoenix on Thursday. “That's what we're
trying to get. Mental toughness, being lucky, I don't know
what it is.”

The Spurs, D”Antoni added, just seem to “believe a little bit
more.”
“All the time,” he said.

[SAGambler]

Something to consider... If Robert Horry makes the Hall of Fame, that waters down the historical significance of what Tim Duncan is doing right now.

I'm not saying that's a reason to root against Horry or any of the other Spurs making the Hall, but in 30 years people need to understand just how dominant Tim Duncan was, and how he carried this team to 4 Championships (hopefully more). I think that will be underappreciated if the history books show that the 2005 and 2007 Spurs had four Hall of Famers.

Horry's been a great role player and has hit some great shots, but he's not in a position to do those things without the legendary big men he's played with, and he would tell you that himself.

Remember Game 5 in Detroit in '05?

If not for the clutch shot made by one Rober Horry, Spurs very well may not have won that finals.

If we come back here donw 3 - 2 and Game 6 plays out the same way it did, Detroit wins the O Brian.

[BigBeezie]

I think Horry belongs in the HOF. The guy is right up there with anyone for clutch plays made, and he has 7 (count 'em) championship rings. If he doesn't belong then nobody does.

You could argue that John Salley has 6. Well, did Salley actually contribute in LA? Nope!

[FromWayDowntown]

In response to whottt, I posted this elsewhere, but I'll put it up again for the sake of continuing this discussion:

I could show you a list of the Basketball Hall of Famers who are there because of their NBA accomplishments and demonstrate pretty readily to you that Horry isn't remotely in the class of the handful of NBA'ers who are in the Hall of Fame.

There are 79 members of the Basketball Hall of Fame who are: (1) enshrined as players; and (2) who had significant professional careers in America. Of those members, 42 were named to the NBA's 50 Greatest Players list in 1997. So, to this point, there are only 37 players who are in the Hall of Fame without having been on the 50 at 50 list. (if you take TNT's Next 10 as canon, there are only 34 players inducted who aren't in the Top 60 of All-Time).

I don't necessarily think of it as an end-all-and-be-all of Hall of Fame debate tools, but Basketball Reference has devised a Hall of Fame monitor metric that basically considers a players statistics and his accomplishments (including championships won) and comes up with a probability of that player's election to the Hall of Fame.

Of the 37 players who are in but are not among the 50 Greatest Players, 25 have Hall of Fame probability scores that put them among the Top 100 players all-time in that category. A couple, like Maurice Stokes in particular, didn't play long enough in the NBA/ABA/BAA to have a meaningful number and aren't ranked. The only Hall of Famers with probabilities that place them outside of the Top 100 of All-Time are: Joe Dumars (101), Jack Twyman (114), David Thompson (117), Connie Hawkins (140), Tom Gola (145), Dan Issel (167), Calvin Murphy (175), and Bill Bradley (272).

Of those guys, Thompson, Gola, Issel, Murphy, and Bradley had monsterous collegiate careers that played a significant role in reaching the Hall of Fame. Likewise, Hawkins, Thompson, and Issel were stalwarts in the ABA. Jack Twyman is in the Hall because he was an exceptional player (a 6-time all-star) who undertook a number of great humanitarian acts, including his choice to become the guardian of Maurice Stokes after Stokes was paralyzed during an NBA game.

I really do appreciate Robert Horry, but historically, he's nowhere near the rest of the players who've already been enshrined. At this point, Horry's Hall of Fame probability number places him 185th among all NBA players ever. If he was inducted, there would only be one player with a lower rank in that category and that's Bill Bradley, who was a 3-time All-American at Princeton (at a time when you could only play 3 years of intercollegiate basketball), a National Collegiate Player of the Year, and the Captain of the 1964 U.S. Olympic Team. Robert Horry's career, while great, hasn't had the same sort of impact on basketball that Bill Bradley's career did.

How can Horry be inducted when: (1) he's never made an All-Star team; (2) he's never made an All-NBA team; (3) he's never led the league in any category; (4) he isn't in the Top 100 among NBA players in any statistically significant category (he's in the Top 100 in Games Played, 3pt FG, 3pt FGA, Steals, and Blocks); (5) he hasn't averaged 10 ppg for his career; and (6) he hasn't averaged 5 rpg for his career?

I guess because he hit some big shots and, as whottt is so fond of reminding us, holds a couple of fairly meaningless single game records or because he's going to eclipse Kareem's record for playoff games. Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I just don't find that to be the historical footprint of a Hall of Famer.

If the Hall of Fame puts up an exhibit honoring the greatest clutch shooters in the history of basketball, Horry should be prominently displayed in that exhibit. But historically, Horry is pretty much a one-trick pony who has played a role on a whole lot of very good basketball teams.

The notion that there's some quantum of "clutchness" that can elevate a player to Hall of Fame status is laughable to me. Halls of Fame don't tend to induct role players for isolated (even if occasionally repeated) performances. I don't think that a player demonstrates a sort of immortal greatness by hanging out all game long, putting up mediocre numbers, and then happening, on a handful of occasions, to hit shots in the closing seconds of games that his team wins. Doing that makes him memorable, but I don't think it elevates him from being nice role player to suddenly being considered one of the game's All-Time Greats. I'd argue that points scored and rebounds and assists accumulated by other players tend to be far more important than whatever subjective "clutchness." If those other players (Hakeem, Shaq, Timmy in particular) weren't accumulating those statistics, you're hypothetical clutch player wouldn't be able to have the impact you claim he has. Halls of Fame tend to overly reward playoff performance, undoubtedly; but rarely (if ever) is a player able to post insignificant regular season and playoff numbers, but nevertheless reach the point of induction because he did something remarkable in a handful of playoff games.

I'd be interested to see if any of the Horry supporters can come up with 10 clutch shots (out of more than 200 playoff games) that Horry's made. While I don't dispute that his shots have decided games and that winning those games have propelled his teams to series wins (particularly the 2002 WCF against SAC and the 2005 Finals against DET) I don't recall that too many of his shots have truly been the sort of momentum-changing daggars that they're remembered to be. His shot against SAC only tied the series at 2; SAC won the next game. His shot against Detroit probably gave the Spurs that series, but Detroit was able to reclaim momentum by winning the very next game on the road.

[Marcus Bryant]

You would think that the Hall would have a way to recognize players who had a significant impact on the game yet were not franchise players. Horry's had a direct part in multiple championships over the course of 13 seasons.

[ClingingMars]

Just because the hall of fame made a mistake with KC Jones, it doesn't mean they should make it twice by adding Horry. The baseball hall of fame has like 20, 40 guys that don't belong as well. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You can't put a guy in the hall of fame if nobody will ever blame him for playing poorly in a playoff game. Whatever Horry gives you is icing, always has been, always will be. Nobody game plans for Horry and nobody ever says, "Man if only Horry showed up tonight we woulda won."

They know who to triple team in the wanning seconds of a game, no matter how bad he's been playing.

-Mars

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

You would think that the Hall would have a way to recognize players who had a significant impact on the game yet were not franchise players. Horry's had a direct part in multiple championships over the course of 13 seasons.


That's my thought on the subject as well. He's been an impact player without the impact statistics. Not only has he been on 7 championship teams but he's been an influential part of practically all of those teams.

I'd like to see him recognized, although I seriously doubt it will ever happen.

[Kermit]

In response to whottt, I posted this elsewhere, but I'll put it up again for the sake of continuing this discussion:

I could show you a list of the Basketball Hall of Famers who are there because of their NBA accomplishments and demonstrate pretty readily to you that Horry isn't remotely in the class of the handful of NBA'ers who are in the Hall of Fame.

There are 79 members of the Basketball Hall of Fame who are: (1) enshrined as players; and (2) who had significant professional careers in America. Of those members, 42 were named to the NBA's 50 Greatest Players list in 1997. So, to this point, there are only 37 players who are in the Hall of Fame without having been on the 50 at 50 list. (if you take TNT's Next 10 as canon, there are only 34 players inducted who aren't in the Top 60 of All-Time).

I don't necessarily think of it as an end-all-and-be-all of Hall of Fame debate tools, but Basketball Reference has devised a Hall of Fame monitor metric that basically considers a players statistics and his accomplishments (including championships won) and comes up with a probability of that player's election to the Hall of Fame.

Of the 37 players who are in but are not among the 50 Greatest Players, 25 have Hall of Fame probability scores that put them among the Top 100 players all-time in that category. A couple, like Maurice Stokes in particular, didn't play long enough in the NBA/ABA/BAA to have a meaningful number and aren't ranked. The only Hall of Famers with probabilities that place them outside of the Top 100 of All-Time are: Joe Dumars (101), Jack Twyman (114), David Thompson (117), Connie Hawkins (140), Tom Gola (145), Dan Issel (167), Calvin Murphy (175), and Bill Bradley (272).

Of those guys, Thompson, Gola, Issel, Murphy, and Bradley had monsterous collegiate careers that played a significant role in reaching the Hall of Fame. Likewise, Hawkins, Thompson, and Issel were stalwarts in the ABA. Jack Twyman is in the Hall because he was an exceptional player (a 6-time all-star) who undertook a number of great humanitarian acts, including his choice to become the guardian of Maurice Stokes after Stokes was paralyzed during an NBA game.

I really do appreciate Robert Horry, but historically, he's nowhere near the rest of the players who've already been enshrined. At this point, Horry's Hall of Fame probability number places him 185th among all NBA players ever. If he was inducted, there would only be one player with a lower rank in that category and that's Bill Bradley, who was a 3-time All-American at Princeton (at a time when you could only play 3 years of intercollegiate basketball), a National Collegiate Player of the Year, and the Captain of the 1964 U.S. Olympic Team. Robert Horry's career, while great, hasn't had the same sort of impact on basketball that Bill Bradley's career did.

How can Horry be inducted when: (1) he's never made an All-Star team; (2) he's never made an All-NBA team; (3) he's never led the league in any category; (4) he isn't in the Top 100 among NBA players in any statistically significant category (he's in the Top 100 in Games Played, 3pt FG, 3pt FGA, Steals, and Blocks); (5) he hasn't averaged 10 ppg for his career; and (6) he hasn't averaged 5 rpg for his career?

I guess because he hit some big shots and, as whottt is so fond of reminding us, holds a couple of fairly meaningless single game records or because he's going to eclipse Kareem's record for playoff games. Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I just don't find that to be the historical footprint of a Hall of Famer.

If the Hall of Fame puts up an exhibit honoring the greatest clutch shooters in the history of basketball, Horry should be prominently displayed in that exhibit. But historically, Horry is pretty much a one-trick pony who has played a role on a whole lot of very good basketball teams.

The notion that there's some quantum of "clutchness" that can elevate a player to Hall of Fame status is laughable to me. Halls of Fame don't tend to induct role players for isolated (even if occasionally repeated) performances. I don't think that a player demonstrates a sort of immortal greatness by hanging out all game long, putting up mediocre numbers, and then happening, on a handful of occasions, to hit shots in the closing seconds of games that his team wins. Doing that makes him memorable, but I don't think it elevates him from being nice role player to suddenly being considered one of the game's All-Time Greats. I'd argue that points scored and rebounds and assists accumulated by other players tend to be far more important than whatever subjective "clutchness." If those other players (Hakeem, Shaq, Timmy in particular) weren't accumulating those statistics, you're hypothetical clutch player wouldn't be able to have the impact you claim he has. Halls of Fame tend to overly reward playoff performance, undoubtedly; but rarely (if ever) is a player able to post insignificant regular season and playoff numbers, but nevertheless reach the point of induction because he did something remarkable in a handful of playoff games.

I'd be interested to see if any of the Horry supporters can come up with 10 clutch shots (out of more than 200 playoff games) that Horry's made. While I don't dispute that his shots have decided games and that winning those games have propelled his teams to series wins (particularly the 2002 WCF against SAC and the 2005 Finals against DET) I don't recall that too many of his shots have truly been the sort of momentum-changing daggars that they're remembered to be. His shot against SAC only tied the series at 2; SAC won the next game. His shot against Detroit probably gave the Spurs that series, but Detroit was able to reclaim momentum by winning the very next game on the road.

:clap

[Borosai]

Yes.

[whottt]

Horry posseses the one thing that everyone that ever dreamed of being an NBA player craves...

The Shot...and he posesses it abundance, in as much abundance as the absolute cream of the crop to ever play this game.

When players dream of playing in the NBA, when the dream is visualized...they don't visualize averaging 20ppg on 50% shooting...

They visualize hitting, "the shot", as time expires.

Horry is as good as any player to ever play the game of basketball in that aspect, and he is envied by just about every single player because he posseses it.

And the fact that he has that shot is a huge reason he has seven rings, no matter how hard people try to minimize his contributions into that of being a mere role player. Which he isn't...in any way, shape or form.


Mere role players aren't the all time leader in finals threes, the single game finals holder in steals, the playoff record for conseuctive threes, the career record for playoff games, they don't win absolute must win games in hostile environments when Duncan is choking the game away at the FT line by scoring 21 points in a little over a quarter...


And they also don't get replaced by Karl Malone and Charles Barkley and have their teams be the lesser for it.



That's not the resume of a role player...the fans of Horry's teams have shouted cheers for his on court heroics the likes of only which the all time elite to ever play the game have recieved...

And role players aren't absolutely villified for all time in the home towns of a half a dozen team for the heartbreaking damage they have done.


Horry is a HOF'er...there is no set requirment for what it takes to be admitted into the HOF, only trends. Horry is unlike any other player in NBA history...so there is no trend to judge him by...

And you can name all the boring and non-descript statistical bechmarks and nba teams you want, but it is called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of statistical efficiency...and only the absolute greats have broken as many hearts and been as great a hero at the same time..as Big Shot Rob.


Hell...I am here because the mere suggestion of signing Horry pissed of one SPurfan of not so bad that he deleted the thread mentioning it....due to the pain caused by Horry..

Do you see people deleting threads at the idea of signing Jacque Vaughn? Will he ever matter that much?




I know he doesn't have great stats...the fact that his opponents keep bringing that up as if it is some kind of hard gleaned information...is as tedious as comparing Horry to the 15th man on the Celtics 40 years ago.


Do a popularity contest...see who wins it, then realize it's called the Hall of Fame. In terms of post season heroics(and that is really what it's all about for most people)...Horry is one of the elite to ever play the game.

[mavs>spurs2]

Robert Horry will never be in the hall of fame. Good role players don't make the hall of fame. The guy has career averages of like 10 ppg. Michael Finley has a better chance.

[whottt]

Fans of teams without HOF'ers shouldn't be thinking they know what is HOF worthy.

[ClingingMars]

Robert Horry will never be in the hall of fame. Good role players don't make the hall of fame. The guy has career averages of like 10 ppg. Michael Finley has a better chance.

You're right, he will never be in the Hall of Stats. Neither will Finley.

-Mars

[Borosai]

I bet the bottom half of my left nut that Horry will be in the HOF.

[bdictjames]

It will be a disgrace to not put the best clutch shooter the world has ever seen in the HOF.

[MadDog73]

If he win 8 rings will he be HoF material?

9?

10?

[Bear Grylls]

It will be a disgrace to not put the best clutch shooter the world has ever seen in the HOF.


Jerry West is already in the HOF

[SRJ]

Clutch shooters are only clutch when they have a chance to be. Steve Kerr and Robert Horry have had numerous opportunities to be clutch thanks to teammates named Hakeem Olajuwon, Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, and Tim Duncan.

Robert Horry is the King of the Role Players, without question. If we find a way to honor role players without putting them in the same pool with real HOFers, then I'm okay with it. Putting Robert Horry next to Larry Bird and Magic Johnson is totally ridiculous, even if he has one ring less than they have together. Horry made a few nice plays when Hakeem, Shaq, and Tim - real Hall of Famers - won those seven rings.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yet clutch role players are important. I mean, it's great that a player can score 20 a night in Memphis but can they perform on the game's biggest stage?

[whottt]

Yet clutch role players are important. I mean, it's great that a player can score 20 a night in Memphis but can they perform on the game's biggest stage?


Best MB take I have seen in a while...

Webber and Sars both will probably reach some HOF level benchmarks and exceed the marks of a lot of players already in. I wouldn't take either of them over Horry if I was truly going after a championship.

[Marcus Bryant]

Another thought, coaches can make the Hall. So can referees, teams, and "contributors".

And women. (http://www.hoophall.com/halloffamers/bhof-halloffamers-category.html#teams)

The Hall is bastardized as it is. Pull your thumbs out of your asses.

[Spurminator]

Do you guys think that if Robert Horry doesn't make the Hall of Fame, he'll be forgotten?

[SRJ]

HOFers produce every night. In November, in January, in June.

HOFers are the first players opposing coaches plan around. No coach ever told his team, "Let Hakeem/Shaq/Tim get his. Just don't let Robert Horry beat us." Sure, they would rather not see Robert Horry catch it at the arc with an uncontested look, but there is a reason he gets so many uncontested looks out there in big games. And that reason is the double teams created by Horry's HOF teammates.

BTW Marcus Bryant, you're comparing apples and oranges when you compare an NBA player to a coach, a contributor, or a female player. If Robert Horry gets into the HOF, it will because the voters thought he was as good as other NBA players in the Hall, not because he was a better player than Nancy Lieberman or Juliana Semanova.

[Kermit]

The Hall is bastardized as it is. Pull your thumbs out of your asses.

There's no need to make it worse. Hell, I'm the career leader in shits taken at AT&T Center due to the Lions Club nachos at Spurs games. In five years I should be lining up for my bust in Springfield. When you start rewarding mediocrity and parade it as excellence, the Hall of Fame loses its meaning. FWD said it best and I really can't add anything more to that wonderful argument. Cue the 7 rings angle...

[Marcus Bryant]

Make a new category. "Contributors"? Obviously the Hall is about more than just who can score a shitload of points.

[whottt]

RE: Kerr

If the Basketball HOF worked like the MLB HOF...Kerr probably would get into the Hall.

There are guys in the MLB Hall for doing nothing more than hitting singles, stealing a lot of bases or essentially hitting WS winning home runs. IF you are a career leader in any positive statistical MLB category...you have a good shot of making the MLB HOF, Kerr being the best 3 PT PCT shooter in NBA history would be the equivalent of an MLB player leading in some category like most doubles or something ...and they are heavily into statistical benchmarks as a criteria for induction. And no...I don't think Kerr belongs in the HOF.



And thinking about it...there have been times during Horry's title runs where Horry was the best player on the court...the best example I can think of was I believe game 3 against the Sixers where Kobe and Shaq were in the midle of choking and Horry took over the final 5 minutes of that game and sealed the win. Not just hitting clutch shots, but he also got steals, boards, blocks, made some key passes and scored the final 5-7 points in the game.
Again...there is no trend you can apply to Horry, because there hasn't been another player like Horry. No supporting character in NBA history has knocked downas many pivotal game winning shots during title runs as Horry...and neither have most of the Superstars already enshrined, as evidenced by their rings.

[Spurminator]

Horry makes the Hall when Manny Mota makes it to Cooperstown.

[whottt]

FWDT...I applaud your attempts to utlilize some of the work being done by the fine folks over at basketball reference...however since basketball metrics are still in the embryonic stage, I am not sure how much weight to apply to their HOF monitor since they still retooling it on an annual basis.


Just out of curiosity...how much weight are they giving for an NBA championship now in their forumula?

A few years ago, playing on NBA championship team carried the the third most weight right, after MVP and Finals MVP in terms of block points...I suspect they've changed that now. Call it a hunch.

In any case...I'm happy to know you will give such weight to their metrics...

Next time I see David Robinson ranked out of the top 5....that's top 5 Players in NBA history, let alone Centers...I'll know who to seek out to get my back...and I know I can count on you based on your willingness to use some of their metrics in this thread. :tu

[FromWayDowntown]

Next time I see David Robinson ranked out of the top 5....that's top 5 Players in NBA history, let alone Centers...I'll know who to seek out to get my back...and I know I can count on you based on your willingness to use some of their metrics in this thread. :tu

That metric has David Robinson ranked 34th All-Time. I wouldn't disagree with that conclusion.

[whottt]

That metric has David Robinson ranked 34th All-Time. I wouldn't disagree with that conclusion.


I'm talking win shares...wins, winning PCT. You know...MLB stuff you used on me the last time we argued Palmeiro.

And the fact that Drob is ranked 34th on their monitor definitely means they have retooled it...he was like 9th(or maybe it was 19th) last time I looked...and the only guys that have passed him since then are Shaq and Duncan.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm talking win shares...wins, winning PCT. You know...MLB stuff you used on me the last time we argued Palmeiro.

And the fact that Drob is ranked 34th on their monitor definitely means they have retooled it...he was like 9th(or maybe it was 19th) last time I looked...and the only guys that have passed him since then are Shaq and Duncan.

I didn't use win shares and that stuff in this argument and I'm certain that I didn't rely on those sorts of metrics in arguing that Canseco's allegations about Palmeiro seemed to be corroborated by his numbers. My analysis on Palmeiro was confined to breaking down seasonal averages and per-at-bat numbers to see if there were indications of a curious power surge. I don't ever rely on win shares, because frankly, I'm not even really sure what it measures.

In any event, if you want to rely on Win Shares as some sort of greatness indicator, I'm certain that Robert Horry still falls well short of Hall-worthiness by that measure as well.