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DarrinS
06-15-2007, 03:25 PM
Sorry if this was already posted.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6925566


These San Antonio Spurs will never compete with Bill Russell's Celtics. And perhaps they'll never equal the six championships won by Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls. As dynasties go, they are better than Shaquille O'Neal's Lakers, who won three in a row, though still less than the Magic Johnson teams, which won five.

It doesn't really matter how bad their opponents look, either, how they can render even the prettiest offenses pretty ugly. It says here that Tim Duncan's San Antonio Spurs — who last night won their fourth championship in nine years — have now posted the third best run in NBA history.
A dynasty is identified by a dominant team's dominant player. This one began in 1999, when Duncan — then a 23-year-old not far removed from his boyhood in St Croix — won his first Finals MVP. A team deserves to be judged in the context of its era. Hence, a comparison between, say, Larry Bird's 1984 Celtics and Duncan's 2007 Spurs makes for little more than a spirited debate at the bar. All that can be proven is this: Bird has three rings, Duncan has four.


There is, however, one aspect that distinguishes the Spurs from all the great teams preceding them. This is the most unloved of dynasties, and outside of south Texas, the least appreciated team in the history of pro basketball.

The other day, in yet another homage to marketing madness, the NBA released its list of Most Popular Jerseys. Kobe Bryant, who has spent his off-season whining, sells the most officially licensed jerseys. As judged by merchandise — a fair enough barometer in this culture — he is the most popular player. Then again, at least Bryant has some rings — three of them. Consider some others on the list, most of whom have never been to the conference finals, much less the championship round: LeBron James, Allen Iverson, Steve Nash, Carmelo Anthony, Stephon Marbury, Dirk Nowitzki, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady and Paul Pierce.

Behind them, all the way down at 15th place in the NBA haberdashery standings, is Tim Duncan. It's little wonder why. He suffers from a terrible deficit in charisma. His tattoo is barely visible. Despite the occasional tiff with a referee, he is modest in both speech and body language. Actually, he's downright boring — unless of course, you care about basketball.

Duncan has mastered the power forward position as no one before him. Then again, one might argue that he is too efficient. His game can become monotonous. All he seems to do is win.


Last night's game, concluding a sweep of the Cleveland Cavaliers, was an exception. The franchise player didn't have a very good evening: 15 rebounds and 12 points on 4-15 shooting. Manu Ginobili was the high scorer, and Tony Parker, with the hottest fiancι in the Western hemisphere, earned the MVP award. But the Spurs are still Duncan's team, and as ever, terribly underappreciated.

There is some debate in Los Angeles as to whether the Lakers' run of three consecutive championships is more impressive than the Spurs' four in nine years. It is not. Humility and teamwork are talents, too. And on those counts the Lakers fell short. "I hate to say it," said Derek Fisher, the point guard for those Laker teams, "but they're probably surpassing us. ... They have become the class of the league."

"Money hurt that team," Robert Horry said of the Lakers during Wednesday's interview session. "It came down to this guy wanted this much money, that guy wanted this much money. Those two guys" — he meant Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant — "wanted to be the top dog and forgot about all the other guys."

Having won rings as a Laker and a Spur (not to mention as a Rocket), Horry knows of what he speaks. The Lakers' talent was exceeded only by their egos. It retarded their reign. The Spurs, by contrast, don't care who's the high scorer or the MVP. They follow Duncan's lead in that they care only about winning.

That attitude has made them more adaptable, a better team through the years. They lost three starters from their first championship team. But they got better. Then they lost their Hall of Fame center. And again, they got better.

Some years back, Tony Parker was upset when the team tried to trade for Jason Kidd. But he didn't mope. He got better. Same for Manu Ginobili, who still prefers starting to coming off the bench. Then there's Bruce Bowen. Once upon a time, he was a scrub, a marginal pro. But he got better, too, making himself into the best perimeter defender in the league.

The lack of enthusiasm for the Spurs among those who claim to be basketball fans is mystifying. No team has exploited the globalization of the game as effectively as the Spurs' front office. They selected Ginobili, of Argentina, with the next-to-last pick in the second round of the 1999 draft and Parker, from France, with the 28th pick two years later. They have become the best and most exciting backcourt tandem in the game. In 2005, the Spurs signed their starting center Fabricio Oberto, another Argentine, as a free agent.

San Antonio's roster does a lot to dispel the notion that foreign players are soft. All the Spurs, wherever they're from, play hard. They play correctly. They play with desire. What's more, the Spurs are the most versatile team in basketball, able to play any way they want. They can win — as last night proved — without their best player having to score. They can beat you down, and they can run you off the court.

"We generally play a faster pace than people realize," coach Gregg Popovich said just before the first game with Cleveland. "...With Manu and Tony we've really made an effort to push the basketball."

Don't believe Popovich? Ask the Phoenix Suns.

The Suns, the runningest team in the West, were run out of the playoffs by San Antonio. Of course, according to NBA sales figures, Phoenix is yet another team that sells more jerseys than the Spurs.

Then again, teams aren't to be judged by the merchandise they sell, but by the rings they wear. After all, as Tim Duncan might tell you, how many Bill Russell jerseys do you see out there?

Mark Kriegel is a national columnist for FOXSports

Fo'ring
06-15-2007, 05:01 PM
:tu

Mark in Austin
06-15-2007, 05:06 PM
nice.

exstatic
06-15-2007, 06:43 PM
In 25 years, no one will remember that Steve Nash, Carmelo Anthony, Stephon Marbury, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady and Paul Pierce sold jerseys. The Spurs legacy, however, will be written in stone.

Clutch20
06-15-2007, 06:47 PM
In 25 years, no one will remember that Steve Nash, Carmelo Anthony, Stephon Marbury, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady and Paul Pierce sold jerseys. The Spurs legacy, however, will be written in stone.
W-O-R-D!

BlackFlagg
06-15-2007, 06:48 PM
In 25 years, no one will remember that Steve Nash, Carmelo Anthony, Stephon Marbury, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady and Paul Pierce sold jerseys. The Spurs legacy, however, will be written in stone.

FACT! :clap :clap :clap

td4mvp3
06-15-2007, 06:50 PM
In 25 years, no one will remember that Steve Nash, Carmelo Anthony, Stephon Marbury, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady and Paul Pierce sold jerseys. The Spurs legacy, however, is written in stone.
fixed it for you.

whottt
06-15-2007, 07:08 PM
I still don't get Tim Duncan is boring, lack charisma etc.

He's damn sure not boring to watch, he makes exciting plays...and I have followed this team religiously for years...the only thing I see Duncan do in interviews that most players don't...is answer questions articulately and accurately without saying something stupid. LeBron does that too....how come he's not boring?

I'll say it right now...the main people responsible for SA's boring label, are the media. And the reason they are boring to the media, is because they don't have a bunch of pansyass mini dramas swamping them to write about. Sportswriters covering the Spurs actually have to focus on...sports. How boring. Maybe some of those guys should go write fashion reviews or something...becuase they aren't writing about sports, for the sports.

I wish the media would stop attributing their own faults, attitudes and visions to, the generic "they" as if claiming to speak for some mass group. They abuse their position when they do that. And I know...they have always done that, but if SA was a big media town, that would not be the case to the degree it is now....then again, if they had big media they probably would have more dramas. It doesn't help that a lot of SA's prominent journalists take their cues from the big media attitude towards the Spurs. And they've always done this in SA. Anyway...let em live stupid I guess.

Clutch20
06-15-2007, 07:30 PM
I'm thinking that the use of the term "they" is used so much because right now, there are a lot of sportswriters that are unsure where trends are headed for.

Success breeds success, and everyone likes to associate themselves with success.

The SA Spurs are the most successful team of the decade.
Watch and see how everyone else influential in the media will change their tune and see how to best exploit the "newfound" influence the Spurs have had on sports in general and basketball in particular.

LavaLamp
06-15-2007, 07:53 PM
They selected Ginobili, of Argentina, with the next-to-last pick in the second round of the 1999 draft and Parker, from France, with the 28th pick two years later.


That's amazing. Who were at the top of the draft in those years (1999 and 2001)? Did they develop into as valuable players as TP and Manu?

Was it Pop who developed these two players from their first days in the NBA?

LavaLamp
06-15-2007, 07:56 PM
Was D-Rob as low-key and clean living as TD back when he was actively playing? How were the Spurs viewed by the media back then?

Money316
06-15-2007, 08:17 PM
Appreciate the story .... nice.

exstatic
06-15-2007, 08:28 PM
fixed it for you.
I wrote "will be" because I don't think it's done yet. :toast

RuffnReadyOzStyle
06-15-2007, 08:36 PM
The lack of enthusiasm for the Spurs among those who claim to be basketball fans is mystifying.

This hits it for me. I'm really sick of the know-nothing wankers who call themselves fans of basketball, and then tell me the Spurs are "boring". My answer to them: "have you actually watched the Spurs play?" Most of them haven't. :rolleyes

Great article.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
06-15-2007, 08:37 PM
I wrote "will be" because I don't think it's done yet. :toast

Me neither. Next year it's time for our long awaited back to back, and my Finals trip to SA. Make it so! :lol

ObiwanGinobili
06-15-2007, 08:50 PM
That's amazing. Who were at the top of the draft in those years (1999 and 2001)? Did they develop into as valuable players as TP and Manu?

Was it Pop who developed these two players from their first days in the NBA?

The top 10 players in the 1999 draft were:
1 Elton Brand
2 Steve Francis
3 Baron Davis
4 Lamar Odom
5 Jonathan Bender
6 Wally Szczerbiak
7 Richard Hamilton
8 Andre Miller
9 Shawn Marion
10 Jason Terry

The top 10 players in the 2001 draft were:
1 Kwame Brown
2 Tyson Chandler
3 Pau Gasol
4 Eddy Curry
5 Jason Richardson
6 Shane Battier
7 Eddie Griffin
8 DeSagana Diop
9 Rodney White
10 Joe Johnson

Pop really developed Tony Parker (drafted at age 19), who had ALOT of raw talent and had played pro-ball and junior ball in france.
Manu (drafted at age 22, brought over at 24 the same year as Tony) had played for years in Euro-leagues, Argentine national team, etc - so had really already developed on his own as a player. But still molded himself into Pop's system and phiolosphy.

ObiwanGinobili
06-15-2007, 08:58 PM
Was D-Rob as low-key and clean living as TD back when he was actively playing? How were the Spurs viewed by the media back then?

The Admiral was lower key and cleaner living. If you can imagine. Really Timmy is like Dave Jr... but tim has a more smart-aleck streak in him..
David robinson and his family still live in SA. He and his wife started The Carver academy here which is a non-profit privete school for "all children regardless of race, creed or financial status". He has donated $9mill of his own money to the school. He's a very active member of his church, and I've heard he leads men's study groups there as well.
Drob really defined "class" and all other players just try thier best to follow his example.

CubanMustGo
06-15-2007, 11:13 PM
Was D-Rob as low-key and clean living as TD back when he was actively playing? How were the Spurs viewed by the media back then?The Admiral was lower key and cleaner living. If you can imagine. Really Timmy is like Dave Jr... but tim has a more smart-aleck streak in him..
David robinson and his family still live in SA. He and his wife started The Carver academy here which is a non-profit privete school for "all children regardless of race, creed or financial status". He has donated $9mill of his own money to the school. He's a very active member of his church, and I've heard he leads men's study groups there as well.
Drob really defined "class" and all other players just try thier best to follow his example.

This is all true, and the Spurs had even more scorn heaped upon them by the media (whenever the media bothered to cover them at all). You see, basketball was not an obsession to Big Dave, one of the smartest cats to ever make an All-Star roster and someone who could do a multitude of things well, not just throw a ball in a hoop. Surrounded by a roster that included guys that would be lucky to make the D-league today, DRob was incessantly deemed 'soft' by opposing fans and media because the Spurs could never get beyond the conference finals. The coaching situation didn't help; in his early years, DRob dealt with Travellin' Larry Brown until he abruptly left in '92, then Bob Bass and Jerry Tarkanian and John Lucas all in the same year. Bob "regular season is everything" Hill, kind of a poor man's D'Antoni took over in '94 and was fired a couple of years later, ironically on about the day that DRob was scheduled to return from a major injury by GM Greg Popovich who decided this would be a great time to be an NBA head coach for the first time. That worked out well but was yet another upheaval and change in coaches and schemes at the time.

Eventually the Spurs got Timmay and finally the two of them together plus Pop were good enough to elevate a bunch of journeymen to the '99 title. And Big Dave finally got his revenge on the cover of SI.

http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/1999/0705_large.jpg

Duff McCartney
06-16-2007, 01:21 AM
Manu (drafted at age 22, brought over at 24 the same year as Tony) had played for years in Euro-leagues, Argentine national team, etc - so had really already developed on his own as a player. But still molded himself into Pop's system and phiolosphy.

Actually, Manu was brought in 02-03...and Tony came the year before. His coming out party was against Seattle in the first round when he ran circles around Gary Payton.

Duff McCartney
06-16-2007, 01:22 AM
The top 10 players in the 2001 draft were:
1 Kwame Brown
2 Tyson Chandler
3 Pau Gasol
4 Eddy Curry
5 Jason Richardson
6 Shane Battier
7 Eddie Griffin
8 DeSagana Diop
9 Rodney White
10 Joe Johnson

Damn that is one sorry ass draft. One of the worst drafts in history...looking back...Tony would probably be in the top two...I'd probably maybe take Gasol ahead of him..but not by much.