Who is the best at each position?-PF

[gaKNOW!blee]

Easy.

[dallaskd]

Easy.

Bosh... btw amare is a center.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Bosh... btw amare is a center.


yeah, but I thought he deserved to be coupled with these guys.

[JMarkJohns]

Duncan, but I like Bosh for the future...

[bdictjames]

I like Boozer's chances next year.

But its still Timmy's era. These guys are his bitches every time.

[DOMINATOR]

I like Boozer's chances next year.

But its still Timmy's era. These guys are his bitches every time.
boozer gets hurt every year.

[Next Superstar]

Duncan is the best right now but it will be stoudemire in 2 years.

[tlongII]

LaMarcus Aldridge

[Findog]

Elton Brand should at least be listed. Criminal omission

[gaKNOW!blee]

Elton Brand should at least be listed. Criminal omission


he's not better than any of those 6

[Findog]

he's not better than any of those 6

You can make an argument for him over Boozer and Bosh. He can at least stay on the court and isn't fragile like Boozer.

[B and P Cats]

Honestly, Duncan is the best. But I think Nowitzki is fast on his heels.

[dbreiden83080]

Honestly, Duncan is the best. But I think Nowitzki is fast on his heels.

LOL based on what his great playoff performance against the Warriors. That guy is a choke artist big time.

[B and P Cats]

LOL based on what his great playoff performance against the Warriors. That guy is a choke artist big time.


You forget he played against Nelson who basically made him what he is, and knew how to break him as well. Dirk choke? Nope, old coach that knew how to beat him and did.

[gaKNOW!blee]

You forget he played against Nelson who basically made him what he is, and knew how to break him as well. Dirk choke? Nope, old coach that knew how to beat him and did.



EVERYONE knows what Dirk is and how he plays, yet it doesnt stop him in the regular season.

[cherylsteele]

You forget he played against Nelson who basically made him what he is, and knew how to break him as well. Dirk choke? Nope, old coach that knew how to beat him and did.
He wasn't that great in the 2006 finals either.

[monosylab1k]

he's not better than any of those 6

Elton Brand is definitely better than Boozer and Bosh. Personally, I'd take him over Amare as well.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Elton Brand is definitely better than Boozer and Bosh. Personally, I'd take him over Amare as well.



what was Brand up to this post season?

[~~Ice Man 2000~~]

Tim now Bosh later

[lurker]

It's kinda obvious who will win this poll at a Spurs message board. :lol But I'd definitely have to go with Timmy.

[monosylab1k]

what was Brand up to this post season?

and what were boozer & bosh doing the year before?

[gaKNOW!blee]

and what were boozer & bosh doing the year before?


oh yeah well what was Brand doing his 7th grade year???


who cares about two years ago, quit living in the past, Boozer and Bosh are right now.

[Findog]

It's Duncan, then Dirk; then Boozer; Amare and Bosh are a toss up. Then Brand..Brand is a stud what the hell are you people talking about? Nice argument about what did he do in the post season...no one player can take his team the playoffs. And the Clippers sucked don't blame it on Brand. especially in the west.

And so what Dirk sucked against Golden State he is still better than anyone on this list except Duncan.

I am really begining to like you...a Spurs fan that isn't a sore winner and doesn't wear hater/homer glasses.

[Findog]

oh yeah well what was Brand doing his 7th grade year???


who cares about two years ago, quit living in the past, Boozer and Bosh are right now.

Brand is better than both of them now.

[nsrammstein]

how many points did duncan average against the Nuggets? if he didn't have ginobili and parker scoring for him the spurs wouldn't have made it out of the 1st round neither. So why don't you shut the fuck up and look at the stats, Dirk 2006 Playoffs 27ppg 3apg 12rpg, I guess you are fucking right he's a fucking choker folds in the playoffs!!

[TheTruth]

PF's shouldn't be afraid to post up and back smaller players down. Dirk IS a choker.

[nsrammstein]

PF's shouldn't be afraid to post up and back smaller players down. Dirk IS a choker.

You're a fucking idiot, are you asking the NBA MVP to change his game? might as well ask duncan to take more of those 15ft jumpers!

[dallaskd]

Elton Brand is definitely better than Boozer and Bosh. Personally, I'd take him over Amare as well.

Bosh is top 3, because amare is not a PF.

[TheTruth]

You're a fucking idiot, are you asking the NBA MVP to change his game? might as well ask duncan to take more of those 15ft jumpers!
I'm not asking dirk to do anything. I'm just saying that i won't consider him the best PF in the league EVER, because he doesn't have the ability to post up smaller players. Dirk's play in the post is pathetic. Championships are won in the paint.

[B and P Cats]

He wasn't that great in the 2006 finals either.


Well, he was good enough to beat you! In the Finals, Riley had two or three guys on him all the time. Pretty good attention for a choke artist. :clap

[gaKNOW!blee]

Brand is better than both of them now.

yup....less points, less rebounds, and no playoffs


wow, alot better.

[Findog]

yup....less points, less rebounds, and no playoffs


wow, alot better.

Bosh plays in the East. Clippers would've made the playoffs in the East. Boozer has a PG to play with. Brand doesn't.

[Findog]

lol! I love the Spurs to death, but you are right I can recognize other great players on other teams!

I do though have Homer glasses on when it comes to Manu!!!! He is the best :toast

Manu is a terrific player. I wish we had somebody like him on the Mavs. He's absolutely fearless.

[SpursIndonesia]

1. Duncan
2. Nowitzki
3. Garnett
4. Stoudamire
5. Brand
6. Bosh

[Strike]

Honestly, Duncan is the best. But I think Nowitzki is fast on his heels.
:lmao

Maybe if he wins something like an NBA title!

Something other than an undeserved MVP.

[freedom&justice]

Right now, just based on consistent production and ability to impact a game: Timmy.
After him, I think the best, in order are: KG, Boozer, Brand, Bosh, Dirk (if he'd post up more I'd rank him higher, but he's mostly a jumpshooter) Sheed (when he wants to be), Jermaine (when he's not injured), Odom (he has the talent, and when healthy, he is IMO that good).

[gaKNOW!blee]

Bosh plays in the East. Clippers would've made the playoffs in the East. Boozer has a PG to play with. Brand doesn't.


Even with a PG the Clips would not of been the 3 seed in the east. Nor the 4 seed in the west.

[Findog]

Even with a PG the Clips would not of been the 3 seed in the east. Nor the 4 seed in the west.

You can't base a player's entire worth on W-L record. If that's the case, there's about 10 shooting guards better than Kobe. Brand is more durable than Boozer, he doesn't have a PG to play with like Deron Williams, Jerry Sloan is a better coach than Dunleavy, and if you put the Clippers in the East, they finish 43-39 based on their winning % against the two conferences, whereas the Raptors finished 47-35. Raptors have much more talent around Bosh than the Clippers have around Brand.

[gaKNOW!blee]

You can't base a player's entire worth on W-L record. If that's the case, there's about 10 shooting guards better than Kobe. Brand is more durable than Boozer, he doesn't have a PG to play with like Deron Williams, Jerry Sloan is a better coach than Dunleavy, and if you put the Clippers in the East, they finish 43-39 based on their winning % against the two conferences, whereas the Raptors finished 47-35. Raptors have much more talent around Bosh than the Clippers have around Brand.


Clippers: 6 double figure scorers may of been 7 if Livingston didnt get hurt

Raptors: 5

[Day Day Cartier]

I Know tim duncan Do not wanna see sheed in the west..

[Findog]

Clippers: 6 double figure scorers may of been 7 if Livingston didnt get hurt

Raptors: 5

So a Spurs fan is now placing an overemphasis on offense. Sweet.

[Findog]

Right now, just based on consistent production and ability to impact a game: Timmy.
After him, I think the best, in order are: KG, Boozer, Brand, Bosh, Dirk (if he'd post up more I'd rank him higher, but he's mostly a jumpshooter) Sheed (when he wants to be), Jermaine (when he's not injured), Odom (he has the talent, and when healthy, he is IMO that good).

Dirk is #2. Ask any scout or coach. He has one All-Star injury replacement as his sidekick.

[gaKNOW!blee]

So a Spurs fan is now placing an overemphasis on offense. Sweet.


No, but your saying Brand doesnt have as much talent around him, when obviously he does.

[nsrammstein]

Right now, just based on consistent production and ability to impact a game: Timmy.
After him, I think the best, in order are: KG, Boozer, Brand, Bosh, Dirk (if he'd post up more I'd rank him higher, but he's mostly a jumpshooter) Sheed (when he wants to be), Jermaine (when he's not injured), Odom (he has the talent, and when healthy, he is IMO that good).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH @ THE BOLDED PART HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[monosylab1k]

oh yeah well what was Brand doing his 7th grade year???


who cares about two years ago, quit living in the past, Boozer and Bosh are right now.

You're a fucking idiot. Just because their teams made it to this year's playoffs, they're better than Brand? Even though a year ago neither of their teams made it?

So what happens if next year Toronto and Utah both miss the playoffs and the Clippers make it? Suddenly Brand jumps back ahead of them?

Offensively, Brand has a better post game than either of them, and he probably has the 2nd best post game of anybody in the league after Duncan.

Defensively, Brand is far better than Boozer, and though he's not as athletic as Bosh, he's WAY stronger.

You're seriously the most stupid asshole alive if you think that "they made the playoffs this year, therefore they are better" is some sort of logical argument. Hey! Rafter Alston made the playoffs this year and Chris Paul didn't! Therefore, Alston > Paul! Fucking dumbass.

[freedom&justice]

Dirk is #2. Ask any scout or coach. He has one All-Star injury replacement as his sidekick.

Typical Mav fan. I did say Dirk would be ranked higher if he'd stick his butt in the post more - y'know, like most other PFs do. :rolleyes

Dirk is very good, but in the playoffs, if you can't score in the post, you ain't winning. He's too skilled an athlete to just run around shooting jumpers all day. All of those guys aren't your prototypical PFs; none of them are really back to the basket types, except maybe Tim (hmmm..you think it's a coincidence that he has 4 rings?) - but they all have good post games. oh, and they play better defense.

[gaKNOW!blee]

You're a fucking idiot. Just because their teams made it to this year's playoffs, they're better than Brand? Even though a year ago neither of their teams made it?

So what happens if next year Toronto and Utah both miss the playoffs and the Clippers make it? Suddenly Brand jumps back ahead of them?

Offensively, Brand has a better post game than either of them, and he probably has the 2nd best post game of anybody in the league after Duncan.

Defensively, Brand is far better than Boozer, and though he's not as athletic as Bosh, he's WAY stronger.

You're seriously the most stupid asshole alive if you think that "they made the playoffs this year, therefore they are better" is some sort of logical argument. Hey! Rafter Alston made the playoffs this year and Chris Paul didn't! Therefore, Alston > Paul! Fucking dumbass.



all your swearing and name calling proves your not very sure of your point.

The only thing about your Alston point is....hes not the leader of his team and isnt counted on to make sure they are like Brand is. Plus they made it last year and were supposed to be on thier way up, and they just fall back down.

what about the fact that Brand scores less and rebounds less? ever think about that one?

[Findog]

Typical Mav fan. I did say Dirk would be ranked higher if he'd stick his butt in the post more - y'know, like most other PFs do.

Dirk's not a back to the basket scorer. He has a skillset that is unique. Timmy can hit that 18 foot jumper consistently, is that what Pop should have him do all game long? We could've sorely used a low-post scorer against Golden State but that's not Dirk's game. Dampier could've dunked on Al Harrington all game long, but in case you didn't notice, he had surgery on a torn rotator cuff this week. Instead of making excuses, they didn't let on how badly he was hurt.


Dirk is very good, but in the playoffs, if you can't score in the post, you ain't winning.

So I guess us beating the ultimate half-court defensively-minded team in the playoffs last year didn't happen. Dirk's a a decent help defender, he's a lousy one on one defender. That's why we got Damp and Diop, so Dirk doesn't have to draw those defensive assignments and get in foul trouble. We could've sorely used Dampier against the Warriors, but he only played 7 mpg with a torn rotator cuff. He wasn't going to do the team any good in his physical condition. Dirk can't guard Timmy, but Timmy can't guard Dirk either. The Spurs stick Bowen on Howard and then Dirk forces Duncan to come out and guard him on the high post. Doesn't mean Timmy's not a great player, but we have a mismatch that puts Duncan in a position for which he is ill-suited. Kinda like how Damp's injury forced Avery to slide Dirk over to C, a position for which he isn't suited.

[monosylab1k]

all your swearing and name calling proves your not very sure of your point.

No all my swearing and name calling is for fun, and also to emphasize that you're a fucking moron, you fucking moron.


The only thing about your Alston point is....hes not the leader of his team and isnt counted on to make sure they are like Brand is. Plus they made it last year and were supposed to be on thier way up, and they just fall back down.

So why is Amare on that list then? He's definitely not the leader of the Suns. If we're talking leaders, then why is Amare listed and not Brand?

So the fact that Utah hasn't had a decent team up until this season suggests that Boozer is somehow a leader? I would argue that it proves that Boozer is NOT a leader, and that the emergence of Deron Williams as a leader is helping Boozer, and not the other way around.

The fact that Toronto's had one decent year suggests that Bosh is now a leader? What happens if Toronto has a bad year next year? Suddenly by your logic Bosh is on the same level as Brand because his team was supposed to be on their way up and they fell back down. Again, your logic is just retarded because there is nothing smart about "This guy made the playoffs this year, therefore this guy is better" when next season that team might completely tank. Brand, Bosh, and Boozer are on the EXACT SAME LEVEL as far as team success goes - they haven't got much at all. Brand's made it to the second round, so if anything, Brand has accomplished more with his team than Bosh has.


what about the fact that Brand scores less and rebounds less? ever think about that one?

oh so now it's points and rebounds? Well Kevin Garnett had more points and rebounds than Tim Duncan this season. Garnett > Duncan. Have a nice day dumbfuck.

[monosylab1k]

Dampier could've dunked on Al Harrington all game long

That's assuming he actually catches the pass. Let's not trick ourselves into thinking that Dampier was the solution. He's not a post player in the least. Any positive impact Dampier may give us should be treated like an early Christmas gift. If we're relying on Ericka Dampier for anything, or (even worse) expecting him to contribute, then the Mavericks have a huge problem.

[BUMP]

Any positive impact Dampier may give us should be treated like an early Christmas gift.
:lol

[Findog]

That's assuming he actually catches the pass. Let's not trick ourselves into thinking that Dampier was the solution. He's not a post player in the least. Any positive impact Dampier may give us should be treated like an early Christmas gift. If we're relying on Ericka Dampier for anything, or (even worse) expecting him to contribute, then the Mavericks have a huge problem.

Dampier's mere presence means Dirk doesn't have to slide over to C. Never said he was the second coming of Bill Russell.

[freedom&justice]

Dirk's not a back to the basket scorer. He has a skillset that is unique. Timmy can hit that 18 foot jumper consistently, is that what Pop should have him do all game long? We could've sorely used a low-post scorer against Golden State but that's not Dirk's game. Dampier could've dunked on Al Harrington all game long, but in case you didn't notice, he had surgery on a torn rotator cuff this week. Instead of making excuses, they didn't let on how badly he was hurt.

No, it isn't his game - but maybe he should consider making post play at least a small part of his game, something else he can go to when the jumper isn't falling.

Dirk plays like a guard, but with the rebounding prowess of the 7-footer that he is - he's great, but as a player, you always want to find ways to improve. The best example might be Tony Parker - he was always very fast, and could get to the rack at will - but it was easier to stop him then because he didn't have much of an outside shot - whereas now he has a reliable jumper that opponents have to respect, thus making him virtually unguardable. It's the same with Dirk. He might never win defensive player of the year, but he could definitely put his size and length to better use closer to the basket - it doesn't even have to be a varied array of moves like Tim's; a little jump hook here and there can only help to make him even more of a threat.



So I guess us beating the ultimate half-court defensively-minded team in the playoffs last year didn't happen. Dirk's a a decent help defender, he's a lousy one on one defender. That's why we got Damp and Diop, so Dirk doesn't have to draw those defensive assignments and get in foul trouble. We could've sorely used Dampier against the Warriors, but he only played 7 mpg with a torn rotator cuff. He wasn't going to do the team any good in his physical condition. Dirk can't guard Timmy, but Timmy can't guard Dirk either. The Spurs stick Bowen on Howard and then Dirk forces Duncan to come out and guard him on the high post. Doesn't mean Timmy's not a great player, but we have a mismatch that puts Duncan in a position for which he is ill-suited. Kinda like how Damp's injury forced Avery to slide Dirk over to C, a position for which he isn't suited.

Yeah, after blowing a 3-1 series lead and winning game 7 because of a Manu Ginobili foul. Dampier's a decent player, but he's not going to consistently 'dunk on' people - eventually he's gonna get thrown down and have to make FTs - he ain't too good at that.
The situation with Tim and Dirk is similar to the situation with Tim and Rasheed - except Sheed has more range. It's basically just a case of two great players cancelling each other out - but again, when the jumpshot ain't falling, where do you go? Tim and Sheed both have passable post games, but Dirk does not. It doesn't mean he isn't still a great player, it just means it's a little easier to stop him. Versatility is a very highly valued commodity in the NBA; it's why Joe Dumars hasn't given up on Rasheed - despite the techs and the attitude. It's also how Scottie Pippen garnered a lot of his fame.

[ShackO]

kenny thomas

[gaKNOW!blee]

No all my swearing and name calling is for fun, and also to emphasize that you're a fucking moron, you fucking moron.



So why is Amare on that list then? He's definitely not the leader of the Suns. If we're talking leaders, then why is Amare listed and not Brand?

So the fact that Utah hasn't had a decent team up until this season suggests that Boozer is somehow a leader? I would argue that it proves that Boozer is NOT a leader, and that the emergence of Deron Williams as a leader is helping Boozer, and not the other way around.

The fact that Toronto's had one decent year suggests that Bosh is now a leader? What happens if Toronto has a bad year next year? Suddenly by your logic Bosh is on the same level as Brand because his team was supposed to be on their way up and they fell back down. Again, your logic is just retarded because there is nothing smart about "This guy made the playoffs this year, therefore this guy is better" when next season that team might completely tank. Brand, Bosh, and Boozer are on the EXACT SAME LEVEL as far as team success goes - they haven't got much at all. Brand's made it to the second round, so if anything, Brand has accomplished more with his team than Bosh has.



oh so now it's points and rebounds? Well Kevin Garnett had more points and rebounds than Tim Duncan this season. Garnett > Duncan. Have a nice day dumbfuck.



your must not of understood what i meant from the beginning.

NOT ONLY did their teams make the playoffs, they score more, rebound more, they were all stars this year Brand was not, and thier teams have a brighter future than the Clippers, as do they individually. THAT IS 5 REASONS. Thats not saying Brand isnt better in some areas, but OVERALL these two are better.


ok sorry I didnt make it clear enough for you, not THE leader but A leader of the team. which certainly Amare is. And certainly Alston is not.

and just shutup about the KG argument, you know your just pulling for straws on that one. The reasons for Duncan being better that KG are just too obvious.


I will have a nice day thank you, knowing I get to argue with someone intelligent and nice as yourself. :)

[Switchman]

Honestly, Duncan is the best. But I think Nowitzki is fast on his heels.

based on what? haha

[Findog]

based on what? haha

Based on he lit him up and sent him home. Only Shaq/Kobe and Malone/Stockton can say that. Elite company indeed. Timmy's the best PF of alltime, but everytime Pop sticks Bowen on Howard and Timmy has to tread out to the high post to guard Dirk, it's comical.

Such a high % of retarded homers in the Spurs fanbase. It's one thing for other fanbases to shit on Dirk, I would think Spurs fan would know better. Too bad that "class" of the Spurs organization doesn't rub off on their fans.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Based on he lit him up and sent him home. Only Shaq/Kobe and Malone/Stockton can say that. Elite company indeed. Timmy's the best PF of alltime, but everytime Pop sticks Bowen on Howard and Timmy has to tread out to the high post to guard Dirk, it's comical.

Such a high % of retarded homers in the Spurs fanbase. It's one thing for other fanbases to shit on Dirk, I would think Spurs fan would know better. Too bad that "class" of the Spurs organization doesn't rub off on their fans.


know better?

seriously, im not benig a dick or anything i really am confused.

[nsrammstein]

know better?

seriously, im not benig a dick or anything i really am confused.

stop dancing around the fucking subject because you just got fucking owned.

[gaKNOW!blee]

stop dancing around the fucking subject because you just got fucking owned.


owned? how big of a nerd are you.


Im not even the one he responded to, pay attention.

[Findog]

know better?

seriously, im not benig a dick or anything i really am confused.

Just all of the shitting on Dirk, he played a subpar series against Golden State and he deserves criticism for that, but jeezus, listening to some of your fellow Spurs fans, he's a scrub that shouldn't be in the League. Such, as Tony Parker is better than Dirk, Dirk is nothing but a choker, when he showed plenty of heart and courage in getting his team past San Antonio.

Avery slid him over to C for the series against Golden State because Dampier had a torn rotator cuff. He put up 19, 10 and 3 against the Warriors, that's subpar by his standards, but it's not bad at all, we lost that series as a team, you can't put it all on Dirk. Avery was completely outcoached by Nellie, none of our other guys stepped up and hit open shots when Dirk was swarmed with double and triple teams. Dirk had a worse series two years ago against Houston but we advanced because Terry, Stack and Howard all had good series and made Houston pay for the defensive attention paid to Dirk. There's a reason we've gone from the dregs of the League to a title contender and it's mainly Dirk. He's a special talent. I don't know if he'll ever lead a team to a title, but if he doesn't, he'll come close. Duncan is shutting a lot of guys out from titles the way Jordan did. People talk about Dirk choking in the Finals against the Heat when Wade stepped his game up and we had no perimeter defenders that could stop him. Is that Dirk's fault? Did he guard Wade? Did Wade guard him? He's a 90% FT shooter and he missed one at the end of G3 that would've sent it to OT - is it automatic that we win in OT? Wade missed two FTs at the end of G6 that would've iced it - does that mean Wade is a choker? We didn't capitalize on it, otherwise, there's no difference between Wade at the end of G6 and Dirk at the end of G3. You guys coughed up a 3 point lead with 30 seconds to go in Game 7, you coughed up a 2-0 lead in 2004 against the Lakers, are the Spurs chokers? The Spurs are division rivals and I don't wish them success, but I honestly don't hate them, they deserve the success they've had. But I don't get the level of hatred and animosity towards Dallas, even given that we're rivals, such as all of the anti-Mav threads after you just won a fourth title. Aren't we just as irrelevant as the other 29 teams? For all of the talk of envy on our part towards you guys, what's with the attention focused on us when we don't come close to measuring up when comparing the amount of success of the two franchises? I honestly don't get it.

Ever since MJ, there's been too much emphasis on "The Man," when teams win or lose based on the sum of their parts. KG is a terrific player but he's never had good teammates. The one year he did, he got his team to the Conference Finals, where they ran into a better team.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Just all of the shitting on Dirk, he played a subpar series against Golden State and he deserves criticism for that, but jeezus, listening to some of your fellow Spurs fan, he's a scrub that shouldn't be in the League. Such, as Tony Parker is better than Dirk, Dirk is nothing but a choker, when he showed plenty of heart and courage in getting his team past San Antonio.

Avery slid him over to C for the series against Golden State because Dampier had a torn rotator cuff. He put up 19, 10 and 3 against the Warriors, that's subpar by his standards, but it's not bad at all, we lost that series as a team, you can't put it all on Dirk. Avery was completely outcoached by Nellie, none of our other guys stepped up and hit open shots when Dirk was swarmed with double and triple teams. Dirk had a worse series two years ago against Houston but we advanced because Terry, Stack and Howard all had good series and made Houston pay for the defensive attention paid to Dirk. There's a reason we've gone from the dregs of the League to a title contender and it's mainly Dirk. He's a special talent. I don't know if he'll ever lead a team to a title, but if he doesn't, he'll come close. Duncan is shutting a lot of guys out from titles the way Jordan did. People talk about Dirk choking in the Finals against the Heat when Wade stepped his game up and we had no perimeter defenders that could stop him. Is that Dirk's fault? Did he guard Wade? Did Wade guard him? He's a 90% FT shooter and he missed one at the end of G3 that would've sent it to OT - is it automatic that we win in OT? Wade missed two FTs at the end of G6 that would've iced it - does that mean Wade is a choker. We didn't capitalize on it, otherwise, there's no difference between Wade at the end of G6 and Dirk at the end of G3.

Ever since MJ, there's been too much emphasis on "The Man," when teams win or lose based on the sum of their parts. KG is a terrific player but he's never had good teammates. The one year he did, he got his team to the Conference Finals, where they ran into a better team.


wow, a Mavs fan that can be rational and make good points without swearing and being a complete jackass about it *cough nsrammstein and monosylab1k cough*

Personally I would take Dirk over a lot of players in the league. I mean Im not gonna sit here and act like I like him because he is a Mavs player and thats what a rivalry is about. However, I know he is a good player and what he did in game 5 was pretty amazing if you ask me.

that being said, he obviously has flaws to his game. It seems like alot of european players dont have that killer instinct when they come to the NBA, and I think Dirk is one of them.

[Findog]

wow, a Mavs fan that can be rational and make good points without swearing and being a complete jackass about it *cough nsrammstein and monosylab1k cough*

Personally I would take Dirk over a lot of players in the league. I mean Im not gonna sit here and act like I like him because he is a Mavs player and thats what a rivalry is about. However, I know he is a good player and what he did in game 5 was pretty amazing if you ask me.

that being said, he obviously has flaws to his game. It seems like alot of european players dont have that killer instinct when they come to the NBA, and I think Dirk is one of them.

I honestly don't think Euro players come by that "I'm the Man and I'm gonna dominate and there ain't nothin you can do about it" mindset naturally. It's a team game over there without emphasis on stars and such. When I was in high school, we were sister schools with a gymnasium in Germany and one year they would send a group of kids here and the next year we'd sent a group of kids there. The year the Germans came to our school, one day there was a pickup game in the gym and a group of black guys that played pickup basketball all day, every day challenged some of the German kids to a game. Some of the Americans were pretty talented but they were all one on one players. It was obvious watching the Germans that basketball was not their number one sport, soccer was, and everytime the black kids had the ball, one guy would get it at the top of the key, isolate and try to take his man off the dribble one on one. Sometimes he'd get it to drop and sometimes he'd miss. Everytime the Germans had the ball, they'd pass and work hard to get good looks. Basketball wasn't even their first sport, but they barely lost. I thought they were gonna get killed. So Dirk wasn't taught basketball with an emphasis on clearouts and one on one play. Dirk has had to be taught that kind of thing and it's obvious it's not something that is naturally him. I never thought a Euro player could come in here and lead a team to a title, and Dirk will most likely be the first.

[gaKNOW!blee]

I honestly don't think Euro players come by that "I'm the Man and I'm gonna dominate and there ain't nothin you can do about it" mindset naturally. It's a team game over there without emphasis on stars and such. When I was in high school, we were sister schools with a gymnasium in Germany and one year they would send a group of kids here and the next year we'd sent a group of kids there. The year the Germans came to our school, one day there was a pickup game in the gym and a group of black guys that played pickup basketball all day, every day challenged some of the German kids to a game. Some of the Americans were pretty talented but they were all one on one players. It was obvious watching the Germans that basketball was not their number one sport, soccer was, and everytime the black kids had the ball, one guy would get it at the top of the key, isolate and try to take his man off the dribble one on one. Sometimes he'd get it to drop and sometimes he'd miss. Everytime the Germans had the ball, they'd pass and work hard to get good looks. Basketball wasn't even their first sport, but they barely lost. I thought they were gonna get killed. So Dirk wasn't taught basketball with an emphasis on clearouts and one on one play. Dirk has had to be taught that kind of thing and it's obvious it's not something that is naturally him. I never thought a Euro player could come in here and lead a team to a title, and Dirk will most likely be the first.


I should also extend that to international players, because I see it with Yao as well. I think the Spurs got lucky with Manu, he seems to have "it" like not many players do. Its the reason the USA doesnt dominant sports in the world anymore, is becuase it has become all about ME and I and not US. Its great to work as a team and all that but if international players want to win in the league alot of them have idolized(sp?) thier whole lives they are gonna have to realize that its a stars league, and stars win championships. As much as the Spurs are a great team, dont kid yourself, without Tim Duncan they are struggling to get in the playoffs.

[monosylab1k]

wow, a Mavs fan that can be rational and make good points without swearing and being a complete jackass about it *cough nsrammstein and monosylab1k cough*

sorry that my rational, good points come with swearing and jackassery. it's just too bad that the next rationonal, good point you come up with will be your first.

[monosylab1k]

Dampier's mere presence means Dirk doesn't have to slide over to C. Never said he was the second coming of Bill Russell.

I think that Diop did a better job by himself than Dampier could possibly do, bad shoulder or not. Offensively Diop got just as many "cleanup" points that we could have hoped for from Damp, plus he played better defense and rebounded nearly as well.

[gaKNOW!blee]

sorry that my rational, good points come with swearing and jackassery. it's just too bad that the next rationonal, good point you come up with will be your first.



so better scoring, rebounding, playoffs, all stars, and brighter futures are not rational at all? those are just things that dont contribute to basketball at all?

[monosylab1k]

so better scoring, rebounding, playoffs, all stars, and brighter futures are not rational at all? those are just things that dont contribute to basketball at all?

using 1 year as your entire basis is just stupid.

1 year ago today people were talking about brand being a potential mvp candidate and nobody gave a fuck about carlos boozer. most people thought he was a decent PF but not anything special. he's had one great year. bosh has had one or two great years. brand has had about 4 or 5.

[gaKNOW!blee]

using 1 year as your entire basis is just stupid.

1 year ago today people were talking about brand being a potential mvp candidate and nobody gave a fuck about carlos boozer. most people thought he was a decent PF but not anything special. he's had one great year. bosh has had one or two great years. brand has had about 4 or 5.

The future is here man.

[monosylab1k]

The future is here man.

Rational, very rational. Lots of good points there. You make a great case there.

"The future is here"

They said the same thing about Kenyon Martin after his one good year.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Rational, very rational. Lots of good points there. You make a great case there.

"The future is here"

They said the same thing about Kenyon Martin after his one good year.


28 year old, scoring average just decreased by 4 points a game. playing on a team that had its run in the sun and is going no where.

25 year old, scoring average just increased by 4 points. playing on a team that was just WC runner ups.

23 year old, scoring increased 6 points last year, stayed constant this year. playing on a team that was just a 3 seed with a young nucleus.


which two are you taking?

[DarkReign]

Minus some real asshats in this thread, its a damn good breakdown of the position.

[gaKNOW!blee]

well the thread has basically just become myself and monosylab1k lol.

[monosylab1k]

28 year old, scoring average just decreased by 4 points a game. playing on a team that had its run in the sun and is going no where.

25 year old, scoring average just increased by 4 points. playing on a team that was just WC runner ups.

23 year old, scoring increased 6 points last year, stayed constant this year. playing on a team that was just a 3 seed with a young nucleus.


which two are you taking?

28 year old, performed consistently well his entire career, a guy that gives you around 20/10 almost every night guaranteed. Best post game in the league after Tim Duncan. Strong defensive player who has averaged over 2 blocks per game ever year of his entire career. Considered a frontrunner for league MVP the previous season, and performed incredibly well in last year's playoff run. Nearly carried a team to the playoffs this season that was decimated with injuries the entire season.

25 years old, generally regarded as little more than an above average player until he had his first really good year after his star PG emerged as the team leader. Strong but unathletic, an average defensive player at best.

23 years old, tall and athletic. Despite the false claim quoted above, his scoring average increased a scintillating 0.1 points per game last year. Solid defensive player, yet despite being considered one of the most athletic players in the league and being 2 inches taller than the aforementioned 28 year old player, he still averages close to 1 block LESS per game than the 28 year old. Performed very poorly in his one playoff series. For better or worse, looks to be nothing better than a toothpick skinny version of Kevin Garnett with less defensive IQ.

[monosylab1k]

Minus some real asshats in this thread

Once you're gone from the thread, it will be completely devoid of asshats. thanks.

[DarkReign]

Once you're gone from the thread, it will be completely devoid of asshats. thanks.

Blow me, fuckhead.

[monosylab1k]

Blow me, fuckhead.

i'll pass, but since you swing that way i'm sure you can find plenty of guys that can accomodate you.

[gaKNOW!blee]

28 year old, performed consistently well his entire career, a guy that gives you around 20/10 almost every night guaranteed. Best post game in the league after Tim Duncan. Strong defensive player who has averaged over 2 blocks per game ever year of his entire career. Considered a frontrunner for league MVP the previous season, and performed incredibly well in last year's playoff run. Nearly carried a team to the playoffs this season that was decimated with injuries the entire season.

25 years old, generally regarded as little more than an above average player until he had his first really good year after his star PG emerged as the team leader. Strong but unathletic, an average defensive player at best.

23 years old, tall and athletic. Despite the false claim quoted above, his scoring average increased a scintillating 0.1 points per game last year. Solid defensive player, yet despite being considered one of the most athletic players in the league and being 2 inches taller than the aforementioned 28 year old player, he still averages close to 1 block LESS per game than the 28 year old. Performed very poorly in his one playoff series. For better or worse, looks to be nothing better than a toothpick skinny version of Kevin Garnett with less defensive IQ.



I said LAST YEAR, meaning 05-06, increased 6 points a game, THIS YEAR, stayed constant.

slow down and read it.

[DarkReign]

i'll pass, but since you swing that way i'm sure you can find plenty of guys that can accomodate you.

Youre a guy? What the fuck is your problem anyway?

[monosylab1k]

I said LAST YEAR, meaning 05-06, increased 6 points a game, THIS YEAR, stayed constant.

slow down and read it.

minutiae. if that's the only thing you can find to argue about, you've really got nothing.

[gaKNOW!blee]

minutiae. if that's the only thing you can find to argue about, you've really got nothing.



If you been reading my previous posts you would see I have given a lot of solid facts, all your giving is opinions. opinions from a very immature individual at that.

[monosylab1k]

If you been reading my previous posts you would see I have given a lot of solid facts, all your giving is opinions. opinions from a very immature individual at that.

thanks for informing me yet again that you've got absolutely nothing to defend yourself with now.

solid facts? you JUST went talking about what Bosh did to "emerge" two years ago, yet this whole thing is about how you say that what happened two years ago DOESN'T MATTER. you've contradicted yourself all over the place and proven absolutely nothing.

immature or not, i know what the fuck i'm talking about, and any asshole with half a brain knows that it's fucking stupid to make a poll like this and leave Elton Brand off of it. maturity is admitting you're wrong when faced with overwhelming evidence against you, so who's immature?

[gaKNOW!blee]

thanks for informing me yet again that you've got absolutely nothing to defend yourself with now.

solid facts? you JUST went talking about what Bosh did to "emerge" two years ago, yet this whole thing is about how you say that what happened two years ago DOESN'T MATTER. you've contradicted yourself all over the place and proven absolutely nothing.

immature or not, i know what the fuck i'm talking about, and any asshole with half a brain knows that it's fucking stupid to make a poll like this and leave Elton Brand off of it. maturity is admitting you're wrong when faced with overwhelming evidence against you, so who's immature?


I dont know how much you know what your talking about, because you dont think scoring, rebounding, team success, or a promising future matters. Just as long as your the best player on a bad team, thats ok.

Im not admitting im wrong because I think Boozer and Bosh are better than Brand, its that simple.


Im not saying two years ago doesnt matter, and not once did i say that.

[monosylab1k]

Just as long as your the best player on a bad team, thats ok..

Until this season, that perfectly described Chris Bosh. One decent year and suddenly he leapfrogs established players like Elton Brand?

And Carlos Boozer isn't even the best player on a good team, much less when the Jazz sucked every year before this one that he's been there.


Im not saying two years ago doesnt matter, and not once did i say that.

Oh really?


who cares about two years ago, quit living in the past

....

[gaKNOW!blee]

Until this season, that perfectly described Chris Bosh. One decent year and suddenly he leapfrogs established players like Elton Brand?

And Carlos Boozer isn't even the best player on a good team, much less when the Jazz sucked every year before this one that he's been there.



Oh really?



....



alright alright i admit i fucked up on that one.


my point about Bosh 2 years ago was that Bosh and Boozer have actually been improving thier scoring, and not decreasing it by 4 points a game.