Spurs get OK to interview Rockets VP Dennis Lindsey

[Bruno]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/4895660.html


By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

A day after winning the NBA championship on Thursday, the Spurs called the Rockets to begin working on the future.

The Spurs sought and received permission to interview Rockets vice president for basketball operations/player personnel Dennis Lindsey to replace Sam Presti, who left a similar position with the Spurs to become the SuperSonics general manager, two officials with NBA teams said on Saturday.

Lindsey, who is scheduled to meet with Spurs general manager R.C. Buford Saturday, declined comment.

Rockets general manager Daryl Morey also declined to comment.

A team official said that though the Rockets did permit the Spurs to interview Lindsey, they plan on competing to keep him.

Lindsey, 38, just completed his 11th season with the Rockets, his fifth in his current position. He was thought to be the likely successor to Carroll Dawson before Morey was made Alexander's surprise pick.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Interesting.

Can anybody in the know provide a scouting report on Lindsey?

[Marcus Bryant]

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=130933

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=130933

Thanks.

BTW, looking at one of the poster's names in that thread, I see a Marcus Bryant troll possibility.

Carlos Herrera.

[Marcus Bryant]

From what I recall, Lindsey was the company man and basketball guy in the front office who was the heir apparent as GM until the Rockets went with the 'whiz kid' stats guy from the Celtics who was attempting to do with basketball what Billy Beane, Bill James and the Baseball Prospectus types had done with baseball. That is, find ways to use quant analysis to make wiser decisions about player acquisition and contracts, as well as overall team building strategies. This isn't to say it's a bad concept, as evidenced by the success of the '04 Red Sox who were built by Theo Epstein and the ability of the Oakland Athletics to be a winning franchise in one of the MLB's least attractive markets.

[Marcus Bryant]

Thanks.

BTW, looking at one of the poster's names in that thread, I see a Marcus Bryant troll possibility.

Carlos Herrera.


Once upon a time Rockets fans thought they were the shit. I'll leave it at that.

[Vito Corleone]

Pop is going to have to teach him how to not think like a Rocket, he might need some therapy to overcome the stupidity the rockets instilled in him.

[Marcus Bryant]

Also, IIRC, Presti had done the same thing in SA to some degree in evaluating potential talent in the draft.

[Marcus Bryant]

Background on Lindsey by Lindsey (http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/Rocketscom_Blog_Squad-152938-822.html)

Morey's bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Morey)

[Marcus Bryant]

Maybe Buford's just trying to extract intel on what the Rockets are going to do with pick #26.

[Marcus Bryant]

--With the NBA banning workouts until the Orlando pre-draft camp and the Rockets lacking leverage with the No. 26 pick in the draft, the Rockets came up with a way to still get a good look at some of the prospects they might consider.

They set up three days of workouts in Orlando following the camp, landing commitments from roughly 35 prospects, many whom they would likely not have seen had they not worked with a team with a better pick, the Bulls, to help attract prospects hoping to go earlier than 26th.

The NBA got wind of the Rockets' plan and sent word to the rest of the league that they could attend and watch the workouts, presumably by picking up part of the costs. That swelled the ranks of teams sending representatives to about 12, but the workouts were run by Rockets vice president Dennis Lindsey and director of scouting Dean Cooper.

link (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5027034?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=73)

[Marcus Bryant]

By the numbers
Rockets eschew convention in hiring new GM-to-be

Marty Burns
Sports Illustrated

Posted: Monday April 3, 2006 1:35PM
Updated: Monday April 3, 2006 4:47PM

Has Moneyball come to the NBA?

It certainly seems so with the surprising news last week that Daryl Morey, a statistics analyst with the Celtics, has been hired to replace Carroll Dawson as Rockets GM starting after the 2006-07 season.

Morey's out-of-left-field hiring is drawing comparisons to that of Oakland A's GM Billy Beane, whose heavy use of statistical analysis in player evaluations was the subject of the 2003 book Moneyball. However, Beane actually played major league baseball, worked as a scout and served as assistant GM before taking over in Oakland. Morey, 32, has no experience on the basketball side.

"I don't know the guy. I've never heard of him," one veteran NBA GM said Sunday. "I've heard he's some kind of stats guy. That's all I know."

Morey, whose official title is Senior VP of Operations and Information, led the due-diligence process for the Boston investment group that purchased the franchise in '02. According to the Celtics media guide, his focus since joining the club three years ago has been on "arena operations, risk management, basketball analytics and ticket sales, strategy, pricing and technology infrastructure." He also teaches a class at MIT, along with noted baseball sabermetrician Bill James, called Analytical Sports Management.

NBA teams have been employing number-crunching stat heads more and more in recent years. But some around the league wonder how valuable such analysis can be in a five-man game that is impacted by so many variable factors.

"Everybody's got stat guys now," the GM said. "There's a benefit to them for sure. It's one more tool. But you still have to see it. There's a gut and a feel and a chemistry of a team that can't be told through numbers."

As for Dawson's departure, it was not completely unexpected. The 65-year-old has been battling eyesight problems since being struck by lightning on a golf course in 1989. He is legally blind in his left eye and has suffered periodic vision loss in the right eye. However, speculation around the league was that Rockets VP of basketball operations Dennis Lindsey was in line to replace Dawson when Dawson decided to step down. It will be interesting now to see if the highly regarded Lindsey stays on in his current role or whether the Rockets will eventually bring in an experienced hand like former Magic GM John Gabriel to help Morey with the more traditional basketball duties

What prompted Rockets owner Leslie Alexander to go in a different direction? Some say he wanted a more analytical approach to personnel decisions, similar to his background as a securities trader. Others suggest the longtime owner might be thinking of selling the team, and Morey's background in that area might be of value.

Whatever the reasons, don't look for major changes on the court right away. Dawson will remain with the club next season, helping Morey make the transition. Also, Rockets insiders say Morey's hiring is just one piece of a bigger puzzle and that the team will continue to rely on scouting and other traditional tools. But Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy, whose contract expires after next season, says he expects things to be different.

"With any change, it's never one change," Van Gundy told the Houston Chronicle. "There are more changes. That's how it is. When there is a major change in any organization, there are more changes on the horizon. And yet, I can honestly say, whether that includes me or doesn't include me, I haven't given it one thought. I'm happy where I'm at."

link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/marty_burns/04/03/notebook/index.html)

[exstatic]

I'm just puzzled that any team would hire someone from the Celtics front office of the last, say, 20 years, to run ANYTHING. WTF? They suck.

[leemajors]

I'm just puzzled that any team would hire someone from the Celtics front office of the last, say, 20 years, to run ANYTHING. WTF? They suck.
maybe he had the right brain type. if so, dunno why ainge would let him go since he is so big on it. brain typing has done wonders for the celtics.

[Marcus Bryant]

My guess is that Lindsey is still miffed about being passed over for the stats guy and will not turn down a chance to join the premier NBA organization in Texas.

:smokin

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm just puzzled that any team would hire someone from the Celtics front office of the last, say, 20 years, to run ANYTHING. WTF? They suck.

I was thinking the same thing about the Spurs wanting to hire anyone from the Rockets front office.

About the only feedback on this guy is that he campaigned for them drafting Cuttino Mobley (a guy who is worthless without Steve Francis to share a hotel room with) and the Chuck Hayes signing (yay, he signed a good garbage man).

LUther Head
Steve Novak
Kirk Snyder
Vassilis Spanoulis
Jake Tsakalidis

don't exactly inspire confidence.

Digging some more, they say he has been in charge of their draft plans the last 5 years. Take a look at this list and tell me why I should be impressed.

2006

Steve Novak
Lior Eliyahu

2005

Luther Head

2004

Luis Flores

2003

Malick Badiane

2002

Yao Ming
Tito Maddox

Well, at least they didn't screw up the Yao thing...

[Marcus Bryant]

The Rockets' front office also found someone to give them Tracy McGrady for Steve Francis.

Luther Head hasn't been a bad pro. The '06 guys were both 2nd round picks. Luis Flores was pick #56 or so and was traded for Spanoulis. Badiane was pick #44.

If I wanted, I could take a look at the Spurs' draft history and find where they screwed up. The only 1st round picks in the Rockets' last 5 drafts were Ming, Nachbar, and Head. Last time I checked all 3 were still in the league.

[Marcus Bryant]

Picking up Battier for Swift and Gay wasn't a bad move. Look at how Memphis fell apart this season after losing Battier.

Snyder was a nice pickup considering what he cost and also what he had done in his 2nd year in the league at age 22/23. Spurs were interested in Snyder back in '04 IIRC.

[wildbill2u]

The coming draft next month and the next year will be crucial as the team retools again. So they probably want someone with a lot of current experience to replace Presti rather than take a chance with an unknown quantity at this time.

[ShoogarBear]

I'm just puzzled that any team would hire someone from the Celtics front office of the last, say, 20 years, to run ANYTHING. WTF? They suck.And yet Chris Wallace was being interviewed for the Griz job.

[ChumpDumper]

So we're getting the guy who couldn't get another scorer in Houston, who lost out on his promotion to the guy who statistically concluded Brian Scalabrine was the most clutch shooter in the NBA....Well, we could've gotten the stats guy...

[ShoogarBear]

So we're getting the guy who couldn't get another scorer in Houston, who lost out on his promotion to the guy who statistically concluded Brian Scalabrine was the most clutch shooter in the NBA....Well, we could've gotten the stats guy...Maybe RC figures that's a way to assure his own job security.

[Marcus Bryant]

Just for fun, here's the Spurs' last 5 drafts...

2006
Their 1st rounder was part of the deal with the Knicks for a year's rental of Nazr Mohammed. Knicks took Mardy Collins. Spurs could have taken Daniel Gibson or Paul Millsap.
They deal their 2nd rounder to the Bucks for the better of the Bucks' 2nd rounders in the '07 draft.

2005
1st, #28 - Ian Mahinmi
Spurs traded their 1st rounder from Phoenix to the Knicks, who turned out to be David Lee. Monta Ellis was also available.

2004
1st, #28 - Beno Udrih (selected over Varejao and Chris Duhon)
#43 Viktor Sanikidze (traded for the Spurs' 2005 2nd rounder)
#53 Romain Sato - whereabouts unknown
#58 Sergei Karaulov - Siberia or some such

2003
1st, #28 - Leandrinho Barbosa, traded to Phoenix for a future 1st round pick (2005). Barbosa was 6th Man of the Year in 2006-07. In addition the Spurs passed on Josh Howard. Also a number of solid pros in the 2nd round the Spurs missed out on.
The Spurs didn't have a 2nd round pick because they traded it for Mengke Kahn. :shootme

2002
1st #26 - John Salmons, who was traded along with Mark Bryant to the Sixers for Speedy Claxton
#56 - Luis Scola
#57 - Randy Holcomb (included in Claxton trade)

[ChumpDumper]

So it's a horizontal move.

[timvp]

Eh, not bad. If it was his idea to get Chuck Hayes, that'd be a pretty good resume builder. Novak and Spanoulis will probably end up panning out under Adelman.

[Marcus Bryant]

As much as Spurs fans like to hype up the international prospects, they are just that, prospects. The Spurs' best move in the last 5 drafts was pulling a Speedy Claxton for a late first round pick. The worst was passing on a starting 3 in Howard. I guess now the responsibility for all of the Spurs' draft gaffes will be dumped on Presti.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, we'll never win the 07 championship with this team. Our front office sucks.[/everybody including myself]

[medstudent]

Just for fun, here's the Spurs' last 5 drafts...

2006
Their 1st rounder was part of the deal with the Knicks for a year's rental of Nazr Mohammed. Knicks took Mardy Collins. Spurs could have taken Daniel Gibson or Paul Millsap.
They deal their 2nd rounder to the Bucks for the better of the Bucks' 2nd rounders in the '07 draft.

2005
1st, #28 - Ian Mahinmi
Spurs traded their 1st rounder from Phoenix to the Knicks, who turned out to be David Lee. Monta Ellis was also available.

2004
1st, #28 - Beno Udrih (selected over Varejao and Chris Duhon)
#43 Viktor Sanikidze (traded for the Spurs' 2005 2nd rounder)
#53 Romain Sato - whereabouts unknown
#58 Sergei Karaulov - Siberia or some such

2003
1st, #28 - Leandrinho Barbosa, traded to Phoenix for a future 1st round pick (2005). Barbosa was 6th Man of the Year in 2006-07. In addition the Spurs passed on Josh Howard. Also a number of solid pros in the 2nd round the Spurs missed out on.
The Spurs didn't have a 2nd round pick because they traded it for Mengke Kahn. :shootme

2002
1st #26 - John Salmons, who was traded along with Mark Bryant to the Sixers for Speedy Claxton
#56 - Luis Scola
#57 - Randy Holcomb (included in Claxton trade)


:depressed jesus, you just made reminded me how disappointing the Spurs draft has been since 1997

ENOUGH with the foreign picks!

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Dont forget that the spurs also elected to pass on Carlos Boozer in parlaying John Salmons into speedy claxton

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, we'll never win the 07 championship with this team. Our front office sucks.[/everybody including myself]True. However, we also had the good break in the form of the Golden State Warriors. And, for whatever reason, the Spurs suddenly turned into supermen on the boards against Utah and Cleveland.

Now, maybe Elson will do what Oberto did and really pick up in his second year. But the fact is that the Spurs really need to start seeing some kind of youth infusion on the front line. So far, the best they have is a bunch of long shots.

[objective]

don't forget that Sanikidze was an 18 year old 6-8 small forward that they took right before Trevor Ariza, a 19 year old 6-8 small forward.

[exstatic]

maybe he had the right brain type. if so, dunno why ainge would let him go since he is so big on it. brain typing has done wonders for the celtics.
Yeah, just look at Dusty's boy Brian Scalabrine. :lmao

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So we're getting the guy who couldn't get another scorer in Houston, who lost out on his promotion to the guy who statistically concluded Brian Scalabrine was the most clutch shooter in the NBA....Well, we could've gotten the stats guy...

:depressed Damn I didn't even think about Scalabrine.

Seriously, this is the best that the best team in pro basketball can do?

Hell, may as well let spurstalk have some input.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well Pop would have been fired 5 seasons ago. I think not.

[medstudent]

Background on Lindsey by Lindsey (http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/Rocketscom_Blog_Squad-152938-822.html)

Morey's bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Morey)

reading his blog was boring me to sleep :sleep

[whottt]

You guys really shouldn't hate on ex Rockets.

Sin,

Mario and Rob

[Marcus Bryant]

Jonathan

How worried should the Rockets be of losing Dennis Lindsey to the Spurs? It would appear to be a better career opportunity because working in Spur's front office for a few years typically yields a GM job.

Although Morey is the Rockets GM, shouldnt Lindsey really be considered the Rocket's Co-GM since Morey doesnt have as much experience evaluating basketball skills to project a player's development?

Lastly should the bad personnel decisions made over the past decade with exception to TMac, Yao, and Battier, be attributed to Carroll Dawson and/or Lindsey?

Bryan,

Dennis is extremely well regarded around the league. There have been inquiries about him for GM jobs, but the timing was not right in the past. He would be a huge loss because Morey seems to value Dennis' talent for evaluating players. The Rockets have known for years about conclusions he reached that proved prophetic. Remember, there are probably hundreds of evaluations that teams never get to act upon. But they would know where Dennis stood on those players.

For example, Les told me once that Dennis strongly wanted the team to use the 15th pick the year they took Yao and Boki and try to package it to move up in front of Phoenix for Amare. Les believed in Eddie Griffin. Nothing might have come of it. Phoenix was willing to move up as high as necessary for Stoudemire. Yao was the only player Bryan Colangelo would have taken before Stoudemire. But it indicates Lindsey's evaluation at a time many teams doubted Stoudemire.

As far as decision-making, most decisions had been made by consensus, but during Rudy's years, he was very much in charge. It was CD's job to get it done. Since then, CD was in charge, but most things were based on evaluations made together. The thing people often ignore that until this summer, the Rockets were heavily limited by the length of contracts given out years ago. CD wanted to make sure Morey and Lindsey were not handcuffed and the organization made it a point to work past those issues.

Jonathan

Posted by: Bryan at June 16, 2007 03:17 PM

link (http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2007/06/of_bonzi_shane_and_whats_next.html)

[Bruno]

I dan't know this Dennis Lindsey, so I can't judge if it's a good move or not.
However, I like that Spurs aren't sleeping on the title and are working on the future while the parade hasn't even happened.

[Marcus Bryant]

Maybe the Rockets screw up and let the wrong guy go. Yao and Stoudemire would've been a formidable frontcourt.

[timvp]

^^ Nice find. The Rockets have been one of the most active teams in the trade market over the last decade. It seems like whenever there is a big name on the block, the Rockets are always right there making an offer.

And since the Spurs will need to totally retool the team within a year or two, perhaps they see the need for a guy who knows how to wheel and deal.

If you are going to target a team to take their front office personnel, the Rockets would be pretty high on the list. They've been aggressive over the years and have done a better than average job of avoiding long term, monstrous contracts that plague most teams in the league.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think the Spurs will be making some moves this summer. Barry's expiring contract should be utilized.

[whottt]

I think the Spurs will be making some moves this summer. Barry's expiring contract should be utilized.


Repeat>Utilizing an expiring contract, Peter.

[Nbadan]

Nice research MB.

[exstatic]

:depressed Damn I didn't even think about Scalabrine.

Seriously, this is the best that the best team in pro basketball can do?

Hell, may as well let spurstalk have some input.
We didn't interview the brain test guy. We interviewed the guy that Houston stupidly pushed to the back of the GM line for brain test guy.

[exstatic]

Repeat>Utilizing an expiring contract, Peter.
Taking an open 3 is better than ball faking, dribbling inside the arc, and passing to someone else with 2 seconds on the clock. I think Brent passing up open shots is probably beginning to wear on Pop.

[whottt]

Brent Barry:

Lead Spurs in:
Adj FG%
2%
3%
PPS
PPFGA


#1 in the NBA in true shooting PCT.
#3 in the NBA in 3pct.


Seriously...you guys are stupid.

[whottt]

Taking an open 3 is better than ball faking, dribbling inside the arc, and passing to someone else with 2 seconds on the clock. I think Brent passing up open shots is probably beginning to wear on Pop.


You mean like his 0-5 in a 30 second span in game 2?

Hey...taking a shitload of shots, and missing them? Is a bad thing...it's never good. It is never, ever, ever, ever, ever, good.

[exstatic]

You mean like his 0-5 in a 30 second span in game 2?

Hey...taking a shitload of shots, and missing them? Is a bad thing...it's never good. It is never, ever, ever, ever, ever, good.
The only one I fault him for was the one RIGHT after the offensive rebound, with like 20 seconds left on the shot clock.

Pop has repeatedly gone on record as saying he never faults you for missed shots, just open shots you pass up. It got Jaren Jackson benched in 99, and probably kept Brent from reclaiming his starting spot this year.

[Marcus Bryant]

Brent Barry:

PPFGA


Pure Pussy, Fucking Gimp Ass?

[whottt]

Pure Pussy, Fucking Gimp Ass?



No...a pussy is someone who attempts to nutride a defending champ and then pounts like a little bitch for the entire season because he feels like he picked the wrong team(defending champs though they were), then tanks it worse than Barry has on his worst day as a Spur in the ultimate games of his career.



Hey, I am all for Findog being a sympathetic figure and emotional rallying point for this team...


But you are outta you fucking MPD skull if you trust this cocksucker to carry the load after what he just pulled in the finals.

Besides...age might finally be catching up to him, that might be what happened in the finals, and if he can't score, he doesn't need to be on the court.

[whottt]

Barry's shooting didn't tank until Pop cut his minutes in half...

Call Barry a pussy all you want...but Finley sucked worse when it was done to him.


Barry was the guy in the main bench guard role for SPAM(Manu was and is the defacto starter).

Pop cut his minutes by half...

[whottt]

Barry: Came to a Spurteam that had Hedoed from the perimeter in 04, though attrition Pop is forced to rely on him - Spurs reclaim title.

Finley: Came to a defending champ Spurs team...they choke ass to their arch nemesis.

This season: Finley plays just good enough to work his way into the rotation, to completely, utterly, and thoroughly tank in the finals. Barry had a better finals than Finley did...inspite of fewer minutes. At the end of games 3 and 4, Pop went with Barry before Finley...

Just like games 6 and 7 of the 05 finals.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Barry's shooting didn't tank until Pop cut his minutes in half...

Call Barry a pussy all you want...but Finley sucked worse when it was done to him.


Barry was the guy in the main bench guard role for SPAM(Manu was and is the defacto starter).

Pop cut his minutes by half...

So when he's high maintenance, he is a decent shooter. But the moment he doesn't get the red carpet treatment and minutes from his coach, he goes in the tank. What a stud.

[whottt]

So when he's high maintenance, he is a decent shooter. But the moment he doesn't get the red carpet treatment and minutes from his coach, he goes in the tank. What a stud.


Yeap...you just described Finley to a T.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs went after Finley in part because of Barry's fraidy-cat performance in the '05 Finals. Fucker is way too indecisive for the Spurs' offense and should be removed.

[whottt]

The Spurs went after Finley in part because of Barry's fraidy-cat performance in the '05 Finals. Fucker is way too indecisive for the Spurs' offense and should be removed.


And WTF did Finley do in these finals?

Step up?

He disappeared quicker than AJ being left open in the 4th of the 94-95 WCF. They're probably friends.

[whottt]

Both of Barry's finals have been better than Finley was in this one.

[T Park]

When did Barry average 11 points per game in the playoffs for the spurs again?

Oh that was Finley?


Forget it.

[whottt]

Finley = 20mpg
Barry = 11mpg

[whottt]

The only one I fault him for was the one RIGHT after the offensive rebound, with like 20 seconds left on the shot clock.

Pop has repeatedly gone on record as saying he never faults you for missed shots, just open shots you pass up. It got Jaren Jackson benched in 99, and probably kept Brent from reclaiming his starting spot this year.


And I think Finley got Barry's spot at the end of the season for defensive purposes more than any other...and by the finals...Finley wasn't playing D better than Barry either.

[exstatic]

And I think Finley got Barry's spot at the end of the season for defensive purposes more than any other...and by the finals...Finley wasn't playing D better than Barry either.
You don't jack around with your rotations in the playoffs, and Finley was a perfect match against Marion and damn good against the physicality of Denver and Utah. He didn't particularly match up against the smaller, quicker guards from Cleveland, but then again, neither would Barry.

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/

Don't hurt yourself too much, whottttt.

[whottt]

You don't jack around with your rotations in the playoffs, and Finley was a perfect match against Marion and damn good against the physicality of Denver and Utah. He didn't particularly match up against the smaller, quicker guards from Cleveland, but then again, neither would Barry.


Whatever..at least Barry contributed to a win...game 3...which is more than Finley did.

[timvp]

Here are some other guys I would interview to replace Presti:

David Griffin -- He's the Suns' director of player personnel. Jerry West nominated him as his replacement in Memphis but Griffin turned it down. Some expected him to be named GM but they hired Kerr instead. I think he's a little overrated but it'd be nice to get some inside knowledge on the Suns.

Rich Cho -- Cho is the Sonics' salary cap expert. IIRC, he's a law school graduate and numbers guy who moved his way up in the organization. New ownership got rid of everybody in the front office, except Cho. With Presti going there, having another salary cap expert might be overkill.

John Gabriel -- He was the architect behind Orlando's attempt to lure Duncan. He was the guy responsible for opening up all that cap space that almost landed the Magic Duncan and Hill. His consolation prize was Hill and McGrady. He's currently without a job.

Moni Fanan -- Fanan is the GM of Maccabi Tel Aviv. Maccabi has great connections and is good at finding players who slip through the cracks. If the Spurs want to build their overseas connections, they should take a look at this guy.

Michael Born and Chad Buchanan -- These are the two domestic scouts for the Portland Trailblazers. The Blazers have made some nice selections in the last couple drafts. Jarrett Jack and Sergio Rodriguez were two nice picks. Ime Udoka was a nice free agent addition. Joel Przybilla off the trash heap was nice. One of these guys could help the Spurs find domestic talent.

Scott Layden -- Yeah, Layden was horrible in his time with the Knicks. But when he was the small market Utah Jazz, Layden was one of the best in the business. He brought in the role players to keep that team competitive for a long time. Maybe he could be successful in a similar role with the Spurs. Currently he's an assistant coach with the Jazz. And if he had anything to do with drafting Millsap, that might be reason enough to hire him.

[whottt]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/

Don't hurt yourself too much, whottttt.


Back at ya:
http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2006/nba_finals_stats.html


And BTW, 26.8>>>>11

[Marcus Bryant]

I've yet to see Barry put together one playoff round like Finley's first 3 this season, let alone 3. (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_finley/index.html?nav=page)

[Marcus Bryant]

Back at ya:
http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2006/nba_finals_stats.html


:jack

Barry does marginally better against the 2nd string. Finley meanwhile faced the starting 5 of the best 3 point defending team in the NBA in 2006-07.



And BTW, 26.8>>>>11

Yeah, Pop went with the better player. No surprise.

[whottt]

I've yet to see Barry put together one playoff round like Finley's first 3 this season, let alone 3. (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_finley/index.html?nav=page)


I've yet to see him get the 26.8 mpg to do it with, either.

[Marcus Bryant]

Here, check out Barry's '05 playoffs (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brent_barry/career_stats.html) versus Finley's '07. (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_finley/career_stats.html) No contest.

[whottt]

:jack

Barry does marginally better against the 2nd string. Finley meanwhile faced the starting 5 of the best 3 point defending team in the NBA in 2006-07.



Yeah, Pop went with the better player. No surprise.


Sin,

Steve Smith>Steve Kerr

[Marcus Bryant]

I've yet to see him get the 26.8 mpg to do it with, either.

He had 24.1 minutes per game in the '05 playoffs. Try again.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sin,

Steve Smith>Steve Kerr

Barry = Kerr? rofl.

[whottt]

Here, check out Barry's '05 playoffs (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brent_barry/career_stats.html) versus Finley's '07. (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_finley/career_stats.html) No contest.


LMAO...that's classic....you do realize Barry shot better right?

[whottt]

He had 24.1 minutes per game in the '05 playoffs. Try again.


And shot better than Finley did...across the board.

[Marcus Bryant]

LMAO...that's classic....you do realize Barry shot better right?

Yeah, it's classic that Finley managed to score almost double what Barry did in the same amount of action. Let alone that Finley was facing opponents' starters while Barry got the bench scrubs.

[Marcus Bryant]

And shot better than Finley did...across the board.

Incorrect. Finley shot better from 3 in the '07 playoffs than Barry did in the '05 playoffs. Stop lying.

He also managed to score instead of being a pussy about taking open shots that didn't feel right to him.

[Marcus Bryant]

Here are some other guys I would interview to replace Presti:

David Griffin -- He's the Suns' director of player personnel. Jerry West nominated him as his replacement in Memphis but Griffin turned it down. Some expected him to be named GM but they hired Kerr instead. I think he's a little overrated but it'd be nice to get some inside knowledge on the Suns.

Rich Cho -- Cho is the Sonics' salary cap expert. IIRC, he's a law school graduate and numbers guy who moved his way up in the organization. New ownership got rid of everybody in the front office, except Cho. With Presti going there, having another salary cap expert might be overkill.

John Gabriel -- He was the architect behind Orlando's attempt to lure Duncan. He was the guy responsible for opening up all that cap space that almost landed the Magic Duncan and Hill. His consolation prize was Hill and McGrady. He's currently without a job.

Moni Fanan -- Fanan is the GM of Maccabi Tel Aviv. Maccabi has great connections and is good at finding players who slip through the cracks. If the Spurs want to build their overseas connections, they should take a look at this guy.

Michael Born and Chad Buchanan -- These are the two domestic scouts for the Portland Trailblazers. The Blazers have made some nice selections in the last couple drafts. Jarrett Jack and Sergio Rodriguez were two nice picks. Ime Udoka was a nice free agent addition. Joel Przybilla off the trash heap was nice. One of these guys could help the Spurs find domestic talent.

Scott Layden -- Yeah, Layden was horrible in his time with the Knicks. But when he was the small market Utah Jazz, Layden was one of the best in the business. He brought in the role players to keep that team competitive for a long time. Maybe he could be successful in a similar role with the Spurs. Currently he's an assistant coach with the Jazz. And if he had anything to do with drafting Millsap, that might be reason enough to hire him.

Good list. In my mind, domestic talent scouting is a need for the Spurs.

[whottt]

Not really...Barry is a career 9ppg scorer, Finley is a career 17ppg scorer...

The fact that Finley scored 3ppg in 20mpg in the finals is much more alarming than Barry scoring 3ppg in 10mpg.

Barry is playing the way he has played everywhere he has been...you may not like it, but it's the way he plays.....Finley is the guy showing serious signs of either choking, or decline. Take your pick.

Since the Cavs weren't as good as the game was big, I am picking the former.

[ploto]

For all of Pop's claims otherwise, he does not treat all players the same with regards to earning minutes. Since he got to SA, Finley was given minutes, even when he sucked, even on nights when Barry was clearly outplaying him. Just like Elson who sucked big time yet started for two months, even as he got worse and worse. Barry was never- ever given the same allowance. Lucky for Oberto, Pop finally got desperate, Horry got suspended, and the Spurs played Utah, otherwise Fabricio would have never gotten the chance he did either. Remember in April and the talk of him going back to Europe? Even Steve Kerr only got to have his heroics in Dallas because of Tony's food poisoning.

[timvp]

For all of Pop's claims otherwise, he does not treat all players the same with regards to earning minutes. Since he got to SA, Finley was given minutes, even when he sucked, even on nights when Barry was clearly outplaying him. Just like Elson who sucked big time yet started for two months, even as he got worse and worse. Barry was never- ever given the same allowance. Lucky for Oberto, Pop finally got desperate, Horry got suspended, and the Spurs played Utah, otherwise Fabricio would have never gotten the chance he did either. Remember in April and the talk of him going back to Europe? Even Steve Kerr only got to have his heroics in Dallas because of Tony's food poisoning.

Obviously Pop is racist.

[Marcus Bryant]

Not really...Barry is a career 9ppg scorer, Finley is a career 17ppg scorer...

The fact that Finley scored 3ppg in 20mpg in the finals is much more alarming than Barry scoring 3ppg in 10mpg.

Barry is playing the way he has played everywhere he has been...you may not like it, but it's the way he plays.....Finley is the guy showing serious signs of either choking, or decline. Take your pick.

Since the Cavs weren't as good as the game was big, I am picking the former.

Yeah, obviously the Cavs weren't any good defensively.

Figure it out.

[Marcus Bryant]

How much had Finley "declined" in the 1st 3 playoff rounds?

Finley's not a pussy when it comes to shooting the rock. That's why Pop went with him as the starter. I know your man-love for Barry clouds your judgement, but at this point there's no excuse.

BTW...when are the nuptials?

[whottt]

LMAO .03 of a difference is the only thing you can come up with? And you even somehow manage to get indignant about it?


No...shooting the rock blindly is not a hard skill to find...Smitty never had a problem shooting the rock. Jacque fucking Vaughn doesn't either...do you like it?



And the Pistons were a better defensive team in 05 than the Cavs were this year.



You guys are fucking fools if you want to ship Barry just for the sake of contract, and have to trust Finley...not only because there is ample evidence he chokes, but because he is showing serious signs of decline...

The guys was the most efficient shooter in the NBA this season....


Exactly wtf are you wanting to replace him with and trust the declining physical skills of a guy very reliant on his physical skills...


You are begging for NVE part deux.



Any trade of Barry that doesn't net Nocioni, Jack or someone of equvivalent talent and familiarity with the system and players...is a bad one.

You don't just do this fucking trade for contract reasons, Peter, not if you want to repeat.



You can't trust Finley to be here this season....

Dude showed total for about 15 games total this entire season, and not the most important ones. We can debate the whys and wherefores all we want....but that's the fact...he played well for this team for about 15 games this entire season....and then his back got hurt.

[timvp]

Not really...Barry is a career 9ppg scorer, Finley is a career 17ppg scorer...

The fact that Finley scored 3ppg in 20mpg in the finals is much more alarming than Barry scoring 3ppg in 10mpg.

Barry is playing the way he has played everywhere he has been...you may not like it, but it's the way he plays.....Finley is the guy showing serious signs of either choking, or decline. Take your pick.

Since the Cavs weren't as good as the game was big, I am picking the former.

A) Finley earned his ring against the Nuggets and the Suns -- the two toughest teams the Spurs played.

B) The Spurs played the Cavs six times this season. The only Spur outside of Tim, Tony and Manu to score over ten points in any game was Bowen in Game 3. The Cavs, using the Spurs' system, shutdown all the role players from shooting the ball well. So it's not just on Finley. Bowen, who is probably the best playoff shooter in franchise history, was held to under 30% for the series.

C) Barry had a couple good games during the playoffs. I don't want him to be traded simply for the sake of being traded. However, eventually the Spurs have to get younger and if that means trading Barry to make salaries match, you'd probably have to do it.

[Marcus Bryant]

When one is either incompetent with, or disingenious about, the facts at hand then the rest of what they have to provide is diminished. Thanks for playing.

[timvp]

Dude showed total for about 15 games total this entire season, and not the most important ones.

Game 1 against Phoenix I think was the most important game of the season. Without that game, the Spurs get eliminated by the Suns.

In that game, Finley had 19.

[whottt]

C) Barry had a couple good games during the playoffs. I don't want him to be traded simply for the sake of being traded. However, eventually the Spurs have to get younger and if that means trading Barry to make salaries match, you'd probably have to do it.



Fine...but just who that is matters.

If we trade him for some dude that is going to be a project, on the quest for a repeat, that is a bad move.

It wasn't that long ago we had shooter woes year in and year out...that problem hasn't been on the radar since Barry signed...even when he doesn't shoot it...he draws defensive attention on the perimeter and cannot be doubled off of..and isn't except in extreme circumstances.


You trade Barry for some project 3...

That leaves us with Finley and James White to come off the bench and shoot....that should scare the hell out of you. Because Finley is showing signs of something....

[whottt]

Game 1 against Phoenix I think was the most important game of the season. Without that game, the Spurs get eliminated by the Suns.

In that game, Finley had 19.




I'd say it was game 3 of the Finals...no telling what happens if Cleveland gets confident...

[medstudent]

I still dont understand why Pop doesnt use Barry as a back up PG so he doesnt have to fight with Finley for minutes. The only reason I can think of is cause he doesnt trust him guarding the opponent's pg

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

That leaves us with Finley and James White to come off the bench and shoot....
You forgot about Beno. :)

[whottt]

I'll go on record as saying the 07 NBA Finals was the worst playoff performance of Finley's career. That is cause for alarm, no matter how you slice it. If this was the easiest team we faced...Finley sure did suck.


And Smitty was a great guy too....

[whottt]

You guys are so full of shit...if Barry ever had series like this you guys would crucify his kids.

Finley gets a complete and total free pass...after sucking worse in the finals than Barry ever has...in any series.


After sucking worse in the regular season than Barry ever has.

[timvp]

Fine...but just who that is matters.

If we trade him for some dude that is going to be a project, on the quest for a repeat, that is a bad move.

It wasn't that long ago we had shooter woes year in and year out...that problem hasn't been on the radar since Barry signed...even when he doesn't shoot it...he draws defensive attention on the perimeter and cannot be doubled off of..and isn't except in extreme circumstances.


You trade Barry for some project 3...

That leaves us with Finley and James White to come off the bench and shoot....that should scare the hell out of you. Because Finley is showing signs of something....

To be fair, Barry also had back issues this year. That's how Finley ended up starting in the first place.

Finley and Barry are both breaking down. And that's not counting Bowen who should start slowing down one of these years.

What is more dangerous ... going into the season with Bowen and two old vets with back issues or trading away Barry for a young guy who might not be ready for the limelight? I think it's equally as dangerous.

Another option would be signing a young swing (Devin Brown? :smokin) and then demoting Barry to Kerr's 2003 role. That might be the best of both worlds.

[timvp]

I'd say it was game 3 of the Finals...no telling what happens if Cleveland gets confident...

Cleveland was the worst team the Spurs faced in the playoffs.

[timvp]

I'll go on record as saying the 07 NBA Finals was the worst playoff performance of Finley's career.

Finley, Ginobili, Horry, Bowen and Barry all shot less than 37% from the field in the Finals. The only perimeter player who consistently made shots was Parker.

Finley was far from being alone in his bricklaying.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Another option would be signing a young swing (Devin Brown? :smokin) and then demoting Barry to Kerr's 2003 role. That might be the best of both worlds.
Would you replace Devin with Marco Belinelli or Rudy Fernandez if we draft him?

[timvp]

Would you replace Devin with Marco Belinelli or Rudy Fernandez if we draft him?

Possibly, but good point. If the Spurs can find a player in the draft that can play the 10-15 minute a game role the Spurs need at the swing position, that'd be progress in the right direction.

Barry as Kerr in the 2008 playoffs would be pretty decent. Come in, play a couple minutes, hit a few shots and become a legend. If Finley breaks down, then you can extend Barry's role.

[whottt]

Finley, Ginobili, Horry, Bowen and Barry all shot less than 37% from the field in the Finals. The only perimeter player who consistently made shots was Parker.

Finley was far from being alone in his bricklaying.

Yeah well...Pop cut his minutes....beoucoup. You decide why...


You know...we can debate this all we want, but I gurantee you someone on the Spurs took notice of that.

Devin was like a son to Pop...until he got back problems.

[ducks]

I'd say it was game 3 of the Finals...no telling what happens if Cleveland gets confident...
spurs own cavs
tp owns james

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Michael Born and Chad Buchanan -- These are the two domestic scouts for the Portland Trailblazers. The Blazers have made some nice selections in the last couple drafts. Jarrett Jack and Sergio Rodriguez were two nice picks. Ime Udoka was a nice free agent addition. Joel Przybilla off the trash heap was nice. One of these guys could help the Spurs find domestic talent.

This is where we should start. Our domestic scouting sucks.

[whottt]

Another option would be signing a young swing (Devin Brown? :smokin) and then demoting Barry to Kerr's 2003 role. That might be the best of both worlds.


Uh uh...if the guy isn't at least 6'8 and wasn't born in Argentina or isn't known simply as "Jack"...no can do. Maybe Posey...but no, no one else. I've seen enough 6'5 Swings the last 5 years to last a lifetime.






I want Matt fucking Barnes...and we don't need to trade anyone to get him...I'd rather have him than Scola or Mahinmi etc. Give that bitch the MLE...if he's good to go...then you trade Barry...or Finley.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'll go on record as saying the 07 NBA Finals was the worst playoff performance of Finley's career. That is cause for alarm, no matter how you slice it. If this was the easiest team we faced...Finley sure did suck.


And Smitty was a great guy too....

So, he gets called out by you for playing bad against Cleveland (who, despite your observations was the toughest team we faced defensively in the playoffs).

Why doesn't he got any props from you for stepping up big in our two toughest playoff series - Utah and Phoenix.

[T Park]

The guy averages 11.5 points

the best outside the big three

and Whottt thinks he sucks.

Genius.

The Spurs don't get by Denver without Michael Finley.

Remember game 3 against Denver? Big three after big three after big three.

[whottt]

So, he gets called out by you for playing bad against Cleveland (who, despite your observations was the toughest team we faced defensively in the playoffs).

LMAO...this is so fucking classic...you guys will alternate between Cleveland being worse than the Washington Generals and being tougher defensively than the Badboys in the same sentence, trying to justify Finley's suck.


Which is it? Was Cleveland the toughest team we faced, or were they the easiest team we faced?





Why doesn't he got any props from you for stepping up big in our two toughest playoff series - Utah and Phoenix.

Eh...He was ok against Phoenix...Barry usually tears them up too.

[ducks]

So, he gets called out by you for playing bad against Cleveland (who, despite your observations was the toughest team we faced defensively in the playoffs).

Why doesn't he got any props from you for stepping up big in our two toughest playoff series - Utah and Phoenix.
finley played bad against cavs due to his back problem and the long layoff between games
the long layoff hurt shooters % except ofcourse the ace tp

[whottt]

The guy averages 11.5 points

the best outside the big three

and Whottt thinks he sucks.

Genius.

The Spurs don't get by Denver without Michael Finley.

Remember game 3 against Denver? Big three after big three after big three.


Man you guys must have picked the fucking 04 Olympic team or something...who gives a fuck what he averaged? He took a lot of damn shots.

[Marcus Bryant]

Barry must've thrown out his back after 'Beno surprised him from behind' again....

[whottt]

AI>Gervin, look at all those shots!

[timvp]

Uh uh...if the guy isn't at least 6'8 and wasn't born in Argentina or isn't known simply as "Jack"...no can do. Maybe Posey...but no, no one else. I've seen enough 6'5 Swings the last 5 years to last a lifetime.

I want Matt fucking Barnes...and we don't need to trade anyone to get him...I'd rather have him than Scola or Mahinmi etc. Give that bitch the MLE...if he's good to go...then you trade Barry...or Finley.

The only players you will accept in place of Barry are Nocioni, Jax, Barnes or maybe Posey? Prepare to be disappointed.

Nocioni is a longshot. Nellie loves Jax too much to let him go. Barnes only will sign with California teams. Posey is the most possible but also the least exciting out of that group.

Mickael Pietrus is possible if he gives the Spurs a hometown discount because of Tony Parker.

But really, this is a bad FA summer for the Long Three the Spurs have needed for years. If they didn't find one in the best when there were plenty available, I don't expect them to find one this summer.

Perhaps the draft, but I'd be happy with a Devin Brown or Ime Udoka type player given the shallowness of the FA class.

[picnroll]

Barry as Kerr in the 2008 playoffs would be pretty decent. Come in, play a couple minutes, hit a few shots and become a legend.
whottt makes the best argument why Barry can't do this. Kerr had Horry size nuts to come in cold and nail shots. Barry has peanut size nuts that if he gets his minutes cut as whottt so accurately points out his confidence goes to hell in ahandbag.

[whottt]

LMAO @ the fact that you guys are clinging to PPG...

[whottt]

whottt makes the best argument why Barry can't do this. Kerr had Horry size nuts to come in cold and nail shots. Barry has peanut size nuts that if he gets his minutes cut as whottt so accurately points out his confidence goes to hell in ahandbag.



And how did Finley do when his minutes got cut? Ever?


Oh...maybe that's what his problem was in the finals.

[whottt]

The only players you will accept in place of Barry are Nocioni, Jax, Barnes or maybe Posey? Prepare to be disappointed.

Nocioni is a longshot. Nellie loves Jax too much to let him go. Barnes only will sign with California teams. Posey is the most possible but also the least exciting out of that group.

Mickael Pietrus is possible if he gives the Spurs a hometown discount because of Tony Parker.

But really, this is a bad FA summer for the Long Three the Spurs have needed for years. If they didn't find one in the best when there were plenty available, I don't expect them to find one this summer.

Perhaps the draft, but I'd be happy with a Devin Brown or Ime Udoka type player given the shallowness of the FA class.


It'd be foolish to trade Barry for Pietrus if the goal is to repeat. Period.

[fuckespn]

This thread shouldnt be a place for whottt to vent his hate for michael finley

[ChumpDumper]

This thread shouldnt be a place for whottt to vent his hate for michael finleyPretty much every thread is going to be like this from now on.

[ducks]

It'd be foolish to trade Barry for Pietrus if the goal is to repeat. Period.
yeah keeping tp happy would sure be a bad thing to do to help the spurs repeat and also resign him

[whottt]

I don't hate Finley...I hate his .83 3PCT and 3.8PPG!!!! in the finals.

[whottt]

yeah keeping tp happy would sure be a bad thing to do to help the spurs repeat and also resign him

ducks...TP's balls need scratching...go to him.

[ducks]

I don't hate Finley...I hate his .83 3PCT and 3.8PPG!!!! in the finals.
I hate when a fan uses one series to determine someone
fate

mike was pressing to much because it was his first finals and he wanted to win it

[ducks]

ducks...TP's balls need scratching...go to him.
after you get off of barry's

[picnroll]

And how did Finley do when his minutes got cut? Ever?


Oh...maybe that's what his problem was in the finals.
If you're going to use the finals then cut everyone but Parker. In the playoffs Finley shot .410 and .419 from the 3 while Barry shot .350 and .306 from the 3. Now play the playing time card.

[whottt]

mike was pressing to much because it was his first finals and he wanted to win it


LMAO @ the hypochrisy. It's fucking hilarious.

[ducks]

I am not for signing players just because players want them signed but Mickael Pietrus
fills a need
and spurs do not have a lot of cap space to fill needs

[whottt]

If you're going to use the finals then cut everyone but Parker. In the playoffs Finley shot .410 and .419 from the 3 while Barry shot .350 and .306 from the 3. Now play the playing time card.


Ok...in the finals, when his playing time got cut...he put up one of the worst post season performances in Spurs history....

[ducks]

LMAO @ the hypochrisy. It's fucking hilarious.
finley was on tell the finals
mike was awesome tell he had back spasms

[whottt]

Um...no, Finley sucked all season long until he backed into the main back up role..then he played decent for 3 rounds(but not as good as last year), then sucked in the finals.


Like I said...Finley played good for about 15 games total this season...and ya'll want to go for the repeat with him, James White, and a project...there is no shooter there. None.

[Marcus Bryant]

This thread shouldnt be a place for whottt to vent his hate for michael finley

No thread is safe when whottt is on a rationalization binge.

[fuckespn]

We won the championship man who gives a shit about stats over a 4 game stretch that we won all 4 games of?

[Marcus Bryant]

We won the championship man who gives a shit about stats over a 4 game stretch that we won all 4 games of?

When it involves whottt's dreamboat, time stands still.

[T Park]

brent barry > David Robinson now maybe?

[whottt]

I liked Hedo, I liked Rasho, I liked Nazr, I liked Anthony Carter, I probably liked Smitty too. And one thing you can be certain of, if the Spurs do the worst trade in history this offseason, I will nutride that motherfucker like we just got a pitcher named Babe Ruth for a hundred grand

[T Park]

Good old whottt, knows how to put words in people's mouths.

[fuckespn]

Good old whottt, knows how to put words in people's mouths.
Knows how to put dicks in his own

[spurscenter]

I dan't know this Dennis Lindsey, so I can't judge if it's a good move or not.
However, I like that Spurs aren't sleeping on the title and are working on the future while the parade hasn't even happened.


SO TRUE