Buck Harvey: Numbers worthy of a parade: 3 lift 12

[whottt]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA061707.01C.COL.BKNharvey.spurs.35d979c.html


Buck Harvey




Buck Harvey: Numbers worthy of a parade: 3 lift 12

Web Posted: 06/16/2007 11:56 PM CDT


San Antonio Express-News

Tonight isn't the last parade. There will be another, and this parade will lead to the rafters of the AT&T Center.
Players will line up for this parade, too, because there are a lot of jersey numbers from this era that will eventually be retired. The lock of all locks will be No. 21, and there will be no problem finding a No. 20 to hang someday. After all, there are more of those sold in San Antonio than any other.



Spurs officials still say No. 6 will get mixed in there somewhere, assuming Mark Cuban doesn't soil it. And eventually, No.9 will follow, as will a banner without a number.

They will have to make do with letters. An "O" will be surrounded by two "P's."

That would have been the end of the parade for now had another championship not followed this month. Now there's reason to add another, because this is what happens when players keep winning titles.

No. 12.

If Bruce Bowen can cover opponents, then why can't a banner with his number cover a small piece of the arena?



Robert Horry deserves mention, too. After all, the Spurs wouldn't have one of their rings without him, and he had his moments in this postseason with his defense and sense of the game.

But Horry won more titles with the Lakers. He's less a Spur than he is a league-wide phenomenon, which is why he deserves some Hall of Fame consideration.

An appropriate parade for him would involve his envious peers. They could tour the Horry home and glimpse into the bathroom drawer where he says he keeps his rings.

Had the Spurs finished the season as they played in January, Bowen would have been closer to the bathroom than the rafters. His contributions had always been appreciated, as has his community involvement. But would his role in the two championships have been enough to retire his jersey?

Just bringing him back next season would have been iffy. The Spurs owe him about half of his scheduled $4.1 million next season, and there was a time — especially in January — when they wondered if they should pay him off this summer. Bowen looked particularly old against Dwyane Wade in the winter.

Had he and the Spurs not recovered? Bowen would have left a success by any definition, but he likely would have left.

Then he surged, enough to come in second for defensive player of the year, and he acts young for a basketball player who just turned 36. His consecutive game streak, including the playoffs, is now at 536. No one in the league is close to him.

But his Finals performance meant more. Bowen was supposed to be too small and too old to control LeBron James, and what followed was a statistical annihilation. James missed 58 of his 90 shots and ended with 23 turnovers in only four games.

Granted, James' lack of a jumper helped Bowen as much as Tim Duncan did. But Bowen made a few things happen, too, especially in the first game in Cleveland. Then, when seemingly no one else could shoot, he made all but one of his five 3-point attempts.

That's why the Spurs will happily pick up the option on his contract by July 1. He will want an extension, too, but don't be surprised if the Spurs hesitate; as Gregg Popovich said Saturday, everyone understands it's a business.

The retiring of numbers is less black and white. It's a subjective formula, based on years of service and a sense of what a player has meant to the fans and to the franchise. Avery Johnson, for example, will get in for what-he-was more than for how-he-played.



The third title remodeled Bowen, more than any Spur, in a similar way. This is the byproduct of winning, and the Celtics offer a parallel. No franchise has more titles than Boston, and no franchise has retired more numbers. Among those honored is a onetime defensive specialist named Satch Sanders. He was the Bowen of his time.

Sanders won eight rings. Bowen now has three, and the only players to have won as many with the Spurs wear No. 21, No. 20 and No.9.

Given that, how can Bowen not be part of the parade?

[whottt]

Yes to Tim, Tony, Manu and Bruce...and BTW, great points on Bruce.


Horry is a special case...like debating his HOF worthiness. If you retire his jesey, how do you not retire Malik's? You'd be retiring it for stuff he did not in a Spurs uniform, and in some cases, stuff he did to the Spurs in an opposing uniform.

The only way I could see Horry's jersey getting retired is if it was some joint venture on the part of the Rockets, Lakers and Spurs...paying tribute to a unique and hard to classify player.

I could see the Spurs and Lakers going for it...but Horry doesn't seem to be remembered as fondly in Houston.


Anyway...Tim, Tony, Manu and Bruce are definites....and yes, what Bruce did in this series was truly amazing. A 36 year old 200 lb 6'7 guy should not have been able to do to LeBron what Bruce did to him....it was what made that series a joke instead of a nightmare IMO. Bruce was the true finals MVP.

[timvp]

I think retiring Bowen's number was a no-brainer before his performance in the Finals. After the Finals and the job he did on LeBron, I think what it really did was push him even higher as far as the best Spurs ever.

I'm a huge Sean Elliott fan but Bowen has now passed him and he's now the best small forward in Spurs history. It was close before the series but now it's not anymore. You have Duncan, Robinson, Gervin, Ginobili, Parker and then I think you have to put Bowen.

I dread the day the Spurs have to replace Bowen. In a way, he might be harder to replace than either Parker or Ginobili. Where the hell can you find a defensive beast at small forward that can guard anyone from a point guard to a power forward who doesn't have any plays run for him all season but can turn into an automatic three-point shooter in the playoffs? Such a creature simply doesn't exist.

[hsxvvd]

Totally agree. Tim, Manu, Parker and Bruce.

Bruce also deserves his payday. I hope that they are in a position to give it to him. He's been underpaid for a while now, and he's a huge reason for our success. Maybe they can repay him by offering him a long term contract for not so much, but allow him to slide into coaching or an administrative position.

[spurscenter]

This is who you retire, of course

9 Tony Parker
20 Manu Ginobili (intersting that he wanted #6 but spurs didnt let him due to Avery old number)
21 Tim Duncan


you dont retire Avery Johnson #6 or Robert Horry #5 or Bruce Bowen #12

i just wouldnt issue those number again but they shall not be retired.

I think Buck brings up great points but then you would need to retire

Terry Cummings, Willie Anderson, etc.

Retiring a number should be extremely special .

I love Johnny Moore but I dont think he should of been retired but thats my opinion.

David Robinson and Sean Elliot were correct.

I dont know, retiring numbers should be super stars , not role players .

Honor the team with a banner (championship one) but not retire a jersey for doing great in a championship season.

Its a reflection of number of years given to spurs, some sort of team records held or broken, championships or awards as a spurs and the overall changing of spurs organization , which David, tim, Manu, Sean and Tony have done.

Avery is right there after that but not enough to get jersey retired.

Keep it as hard to get a number retired as it is to get into the baseball hall of fame. Even some that had great careers dont get enough votes to get in.

[whottt]

Sorry Spurs Center...but you are wrong about Bruce. He is a highly decorated NBA player.

7 All NBA D Team is just about the most in history for a perimeter oriented player. Making it consecutively...
Lead the NBA in 3 PCT.
Is probably the Spurs all time leader in threes now, post and regular season.

Bruce just might be the best perimeter defender in NBA history..and yeah, I'd have loved to have seen him matched up against Jordan in his(Jordan's) prime.

And he was the MVP of this series.


And I agree with TimVP...

If I am picking SF...I take Bruce over Elliott...Elliott is the better all around player, but Bruce is the more dominant player...and I think his three is more reliable than Sean's was as well. Before these finals it was a tossup...now it really isn't.

[foodie2]

Bruce just might be the best perimeter defender in NBA history..and yeah, I'd have loved to have seen him matched up against Jordan in his(Jordan's) prime.

I was just thinking about this the other day after Bruce's performance on LeBron. I was wondering what you guys who are more familiar with Jordan in his prime think about how effective Bruce would have been on him. It's an interesting question.

[greens]

This is who you retire, of course

9 Tony Parker
20 Manu Ginobili (intersting that he wanted #6 but spurs didnt let him due to Avery old number)
21 Tim Duncan


you dont retire Avery Johnson #6 or Robert Horry #5 or Bruce Bowen #12

i just wouldnt issue those number again but they shall not be retired.

I think Buck brings up great points but then you would need to retire

Terry Cummings, Willie Anderson, etc.

Retiring a number should be extremely special .

I love Johnny Moore but I dont think he should of been retired but thats my opinion.

David Robinson and Sean Elliot were correct.

I dont know, retiring numbers should be super stars , not role players .

Honor the team with a banner (championship one) but not retire a jersey for doing great in a championship season.

Its a reflection of number of years given to spurs, some sort of team records held or broken, championships or awards as a spurs and the overall changing of spurs organization , which David, tim, Manu, Sean and Tony have done.

Avery is right there after that but not enough to get jersey retired.

Keep it as hard to get a number retired as it is to get into the baseball hall of fame. Even some that had great careers dont get enough votes to get in.



It amazes me how some people still cannot give enough credit to Bruce. The guy is the BEST perimeter defender in the league. Without him, we would not have our championships...he is the heart of the team defense. Did you see Tim praise Bruce in the postgame after they won the Finals? All he talked about was Bruce's defense on Lebron and how he had played like 40 minutes a game.

The guy is a HUGE part of the Spurs success, such as Tim/Manu/Tony are. It would be ridiculous to not retire his jersey after all that he has done.

I mean the guy defends AI/Carmelo in first round, Nash in second, Deron in thrid, and on top of it all: Lebron in the Finals. A guy who everyone thought Bruce would have huge troubles with.

So give him the credit he deserves. After all, defense wins championships. Spurs are a great defensive team, the best...and who is at the heart of the defense...ask Tim. He'd tell you it's Bruce, just as he had said many times in interviews.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I dread the day the Spurs have to replace Bowen. In a way, he might be harder to replace than either Parker or Ginobili. Where the hell can you find a defensive beast at small forward that can guard anyone from a point guard to a power forward who doesn't have any plays run for him all season but can turn into an automatic three-point shooter in the playoffs? Such a creature simply doesn't exist.

too true. I think this year, Bruce dispelled any doubts just how unique he is. The work he did on Lebron was crazy. He makes Pop's job SO much easier it's sick.

[spurscenter]

I love Bruce Bowen to DEATH. I think that man is the most important player in the spurs roster for what he does.

I love him more than Duncan because he is such an under dog every night.

I love that.

I just dont think his number should be retired, #34 Terry Cummings was amazing helping David night in and night out , so was Willie Anderson #40.

I dont know its tough but I think Bowen and Avery are right at the line of whether to retire them or not (jerseys).

obviously why has there been so much wait for avery retirement, because I think its debatable.

Clearly above is Manu, Parker and Duncan.

You can gauge it this way, an occasional nba fan of any other team should know who is worthy of jersey retirement of another nba team roster. Non spurs fans will easily tell you manu, duncan and parker but i dont think non spurs fans will tell you Bowen or Avery hands down on retirement of their jersey. Say, Nets, we all know Jason Kidd should be retired but do we think Richard Jefferson? pehaps nets fans will but the non nets fans will say, jefferson is a role player, etc. Right on the line perhaps. This is just an example. nets suck. lol

This is a seperate question,
You think Miami should retire Shaq number?
You think Detroit should retire Rasheed Wallace, who in the current detroit piston roster would you retire?

[Samr]

Where the hell can you find a defensive beast at small forward that can guard anyone from a point guard to a power forward who doesn't have any plays run for him all season but can turn into an automatic three-point shooter in the playoffs?

And, perhaps even just as important, how do you replace someone who is HAPPY to have that role? Marion is a good defender, yes, but he is constantly whining about not getting enough respect as a player. Ginobili, until recently, had complained about coming off the bench.

Bowen literally says in interviews that his role (an aside: it seems like Spurs players are the only ones who freely use that word?) is to stop the other team's best player, and work harder than anyone on the court in doing so, all without being allowed to contribute any shots inside the three-point line.

Who in the NBA actually BRAGS that he is completely ineffectual on the offensive end?

Never mind wanting to learn to play defense; do you want your kids to learn SPORTSMANSHIP? Just have them watch Bowen, and then once he leaves the court, tell them to look in the rafters.

[TheTruth]

are you seriously comparing Bruce to Terry Cummings and Willie Anderson? Show me the rings they had a huge hand in winning, and I'll stop laughing.

[exstatic]

Anyone who thinks #12 should not be retired needs to be tied to a chair and forced to watch the entire 2001 Lakers series for 72 hours straight. With Sean out of action, and Bowen not yet signed, they ASSRAPED us. Without Bowen, we may have one trophy in the case. If you think about how close the 2004 and 2006 seasons were to two more rings, you understand the fine line between champions and also-rans. Now, imagine of Kobe goes off again in 2003, or Rip or Chauncey does in 2005...we don't win.

[Dark Matter]

are you seriously comparing Bruce to Terry Cummings and Willie Anderson? Show me the rings they had a huge hand in winning, and I'll stop laughing.

Really, what color is the sky in your world :rolleyes :dizzy

[spursfan09]

I'm all about Bruce Bowen having his number retired. He has been here a long time. He has won 3 championships with us. He is a great NBA defender (one of the best in history). He deserves it as much and Ginobili deserves his jersey retired.

[ducks]

if bowen plays like he did this year on d
bowen will be the defensive player of the year
media hated what he did to james in finals

[spurscenter]

lakers should retire dennis rodman jersey, so should the bulls.

[jag]

I love Bruce Bowen to DEATH. I think that man is the most important player in the spurs roster for what he does.

I love him more than Duncan because he is such an under dog every night.

I love that.

I just dont think his number should be retired, #34 Terry Cummings was amazing helping David night in and night out , so was Willie Anderson #40.

I dont know its tough but I think Bowen and Avery are right at the line of whether to retire them or not (jerseys).

obviously why has there been so much wait for avery retirement, because I think its debatable.

Clearly above is Manu, Parker and Duncan.

You can gauge it this way, an occasional nba fan of any other team should know who is worthy of jersey retirement of another nba team roster. Non spurs fans will easily tell you manu, duncan and parker but i dont think non spurs fans will tell you Bowen or Avery hands down on retirement of their jersey. Say, Nets, we all know Jason Kidd should be retired but do we think Richard Jefferson? pehaps nets fans will but the non nets fans will say, jefferson is a role player, etc. Right on the line perhaps. This is just an example. nets suck. lol

This is a seperate question,
You think Miami should retire Shaq number?
You think Detroit should retire Rasheed Wallace, who in the current detroit piston roster would you retire?


The # should be retired. Cummings and anderson were great for Robinson, but they never brought SA titles. That's where bruce is different.

[spurscenter]

who in detroit should have their jersey retired?

Im having a debate with a friend who is a pistons fan.

RIP hamilton (scorer), Taysuan (solid D), Rasheed (champ 06), Ben Wallace (DPOY, champ 06), or Chauncey Billups

I told him no one. lol.

he thinks Billups and Wallace if he stayed longer.

[spurscenter]

The # should be retired. Cummings and anderson were great for Robinson, but they never brought SA titles. That's where bruce is different.


yea but i think Bruce should be remembered by a statue or banner or plaque or display, the championship banner honrs the whole team.

Jersey retirement is for super stars over careers, in my opinion.

Avery and Bowen are on the line.

and IM SERIOUSLY the biggest Bruce bowen fan u will meet. seriously.

Ultimately, if Bruce retires a Spurs, I think he will get his jersey retired.

If anything, and not just the only reason, but because he was the perfect model of the Spurs mentality in this Duncan era.

Hard Nosed Defense, night in and night out. I think that his jersey retirement will define this spurs era.

Like Cedric Maxwell got his Celtic jersey retired for winning the 1981 finals game 7 vs lakers playing alongside larry bird, cedrics 24 points beat the lakers and got MVP over Bird for the Celtics in 1981. Many argued why him? but it defined a moment for the franchise beating the lakers and he was overshawdowed by Mchale, bird, etc.

Its a good debate retiring jerseys, I wonder how much the league plays a role in these things, team by team basis.



-----

i always like reading this about cedric

Maxwell made an impact in his second season with the Celtics. While Boston was mired in an otherwise awful 1978-79 season as they awaited Larry Bird's decision to sign with the franchise, the second-year power forward averaged 19.0 points and 9.9 rebounds per game. The Celtics would go just 29-53 but the young Maxwell's potential, along with the promising addition of Bird and others, set the stage for a dynasty.

Maxwell, in addition to being a dangerous scorer and a colorful character, was a clutch performer when it came playoff time. Despite being overshadowed by such stars as Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, Maxwell was named MVP of the 1981 NBA Finals. Three years later, Maxwell scored 24 points against the Los Angeles Lakers in the decisive game-seven victory during the 1984 NBA Finals.

Before the game, he told his teammates to "climb on my back, boys." Maxwell's colorful side was also on display in the series as he mocked second-year Laker forward James Worthy's inability to make free throws during overtime of game 4 by walking across the lane between free throws with his hands around his own neck, suggesting Worthy's choking under pressure.

He was traded with a draft pick on September 6, 1985 to the Los Angeles Clippers for center Bill Walton. He spent a season and a half with the Clippers before being dealt to the Houston Rockets in January 1987 for two draft picks. He finally retired from the NBA after the 1987-88 season, having scored 10,465 points and pulled down 5,261 rebounds over the course of 11 seasons-averages of 12 and a half points and 6.3 rebounds a game.

He was the 22nd former Celtic to have his jersey (number 31) retired by the Celtics on December 15, 2003.

He's now a radio broadcaster for WRKO AM in Boston, where he announces Boston Celtics games with the Sean Grande and lives in Weston, Massachusetts.

[SA210]

if bowen plays like he did this year on d
bowen will be the defensive player of the year
media hated what he did to james in finals
Spurs fans should start holding signs up at all the games next season
"BRUCE BOWEN 2008 DPOY!!"

Spurs front office won't do anything like that, but it wouldn't hurt for the fans to support him in probably Bruce's last chance to win it. We gotta help Bruce get at least one and we need to start at the beginning of the season. :ihit

[Capt Bringdown]

He certainly contributed more to this team than Johnny Moore...or maybe even Jimmy Si for that matter. Of course his number gets raised to the rafters.
But we shouldn't overpay him with a "thank you" contract, like Pop did with Avery.

[Spurminator]

Bowen was a lock after the 2005 Title. Besides Duncan, no one player has personifiesd Spurs Basketball more than Bruce Bowen during this 3-title run.

[PM5K]

I was just thinking about this the other day after Bruce's performance on LeBron. I was wondering what you guys who are more familiar with Jordan in his prime think about how effective Bruce would have been on him. It's an interesting question.

L O L

[michaelwcho]

Bruce is one of the necessary components of a championship here--without him, it's almost inconceivable. He definitely should have his number retired, and I have no idea how we will replace him.

[samikeyp]

I wasn't sold completely on #12 going up after last season.

This season and especially this post-season clinched it for me.

12 goes up also.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

I just read some idiot comparing Robert Horry to Malik Rose and using the logic that if Horry's jersey were to be retired by the Spurs, as should Malik's.

I know it's hot in South Texas but you've got to be kidding right?

Robert Horry won the 2005 title with his historic, remarkable performance in game 5 against Detroit and the most Malik Rose ever did in crunch time of a championship game was wave a towel while watching from the sidelines.

Malik Rose will go down as the one of the hardest working, overpaid Spurs of all-time. To idiots on this board, he's the second coming of Moses Malone. To anyone not wearing blinders, he's an under-sized, average basketball player with a big heart.

Can we put the Malik Rose crap to bed already?

[whottt]

I just read some idiot comparing Robert Horry to Malik Rose and using the logic that if Horry's jersey were to be retired by the Spurs, as should Malik's.

I know it's hot in South Texas but you've got to be kidding right?

Robert Horry won the 2005 title with his historic, remarkable performance in game 5 against Detroit and the most Malik Rose ever did in crunch time of a championship game was wave a towel while watching from the sidelines.

Malik Rose will go down as the one of the hardest working, overpaid Spurs of all-time. To idiots on this board, he's the second coming of Moses Malone. To anyone not wearing blinders, he's an under-sized, average basketball player with a big heart.

Can we put the Malik Rose crap to bed already?


Bandwagoned after 03 did you?

[ObiwanGinobili]

Anyone who thinks #12 should not be retired needs to be tied to a chair and forced to watch the entire 2001 Lakers series for 72 hours straight. With Sean out of action, and Bowen not yet signed, they ASSRAPED us. Without Bowen, we may have one trophy in the case. If you think about how close the 2004 and 2006 seasons were to two more rings, you understand the fine line between champions and also-rans. Now, imagine of Kobe goes off again in 2003, or Rip or Chauncey does in 2005...we don't win.

A FREAKING MEN!

Seriously - is spurscenter on crack?

I would retire Bowen's #12 over Manu's #20 in a heartbeat - and my screename is ObiwanGinobili !!

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Been a Spurs fan since you were waxing poles for 5$ Whott. Long enough to know the difference between one of the biggest clutch shot makers in NBA HISTORY and an overpaid scrub that got lucky because he shared an agent with Tim Duncan.

[ShoogarBear]

Robert Horry won the 2005 title with his historic, remarkable performance in game 5 against Detroit and the most Malik Rose ever did in crunch time of a championship game was wave a towel while watching from the sidelines.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/specials/spurschamps/slideshows/spursnetsgame3/images/game6.jpg

[ShoogarBear]

Oh, and just for the record, I don't think either Horry or Malik's numbers should be retired.

Bruce is a no-brainer.

[whottt]

Been a Spurs fan since you were waxing poles for 5$ Whott. Long enough to know the difference between one of the biggest clutch shot makers in NBA HISTORY and an overpaid scrub that got lucky because he shared an agent with Tim Duncan.

Spurs jersey retirement has nothing to do with career outside of the Spurs really...that's why Nique and Moses don't have their jerseys retired.

Just talking Spurs career...Horry isn't more deserving than Malik.

Malik had some huge playoff games and moments for us that you either, don't remember, or didn't see because you weren't watching.


Case in point...the reason Malik got paid so much is that the Lakers(with Horry) were offering him that much...


Someone that was doing more than working the glory hole at their local porn shop at that time, would have known that...

Bandwaggoner....and pole smoker.

[MadDog73]

If Horry wins another Championship with the Spurs, does he get his Jersey retired then?

Right now, I don't think so.

Tim
Tony
Manu
Bruce

[ChumpDumper]

Oh, and just for the record, I don't think either Horry or Malik's numbers should be retired.

Bruce is a no-brainer.Agreed. I don't think AJ merits it either, but there's no true accounting for this stuff. I won't stage a protest if it happens for those guys.

Bruce absolutely needs his number retired, if only to try and make up for all the DPOYs and now Finals MVP that he deserved but never received.

[whottt]

Like I said earlier...if we retire Horry's jersey right now, we'll be retiring it for stuff he did with the Spurs, and in some cases stuff he did against the Spurs.

I just don't think his jersey is quite there at retirement status...

And I am big Horry Fan...I think he belongs in the HOF....I just don't think he's done enough as a Spur to have his jersey retired unless it's done in an unusual way...like along with the Lakers and Rockets retiring it.

[my2sons]

Yes to Tim, Tony, Manu and Bruce...and BTW, great points on Bruce.


Horry is a special case...like debating his HOF worthiness. If you retire his jesey, how do you not retire Malik's? You'd be retiring it for stuff he did not in a Spurs uniform, and in some cases, stuff he did to the Spurs in an opposing uniform.

The only way I could see Horry's jersey getting retired is if it was some joint venture on the part of the Rockets, Lakers and Spurs...paying tribute to a unique and hard to classify player.

I could see the Spurs and Lakers going for it...but Horry doesn't seem to be remembered as fondly in Houston.

Anyway...Tim, Tony, Manu and Bruce are definites....and yes, what Bruce did in this series was truly amazing. A 36 year old 200 lb 6'7 guy should not have been able to do to LeBron what Bruce did to him....it was what made that series a joke instead of a nightmare IMO. Bruce was the true finals MVP.


That would be awsome and unique to see those three teams do something like that simultaneously, it would be a first thats for sure

[BigBeezie]

I don't see Avery getting retired while he is coach of the Mavs. You just can't give a Maverick an honor like that.

They should retire Duncan, Tony, Manu and Bruce. Horry is also a possibility...

[sprrs]

yea but i think Bruce should be remembered by a statue or banner or plaque or display, the championship banner honrs the whole team.

Jersey retirement is for super stars over careers, in my opinion.


Like Harvey said, championships play a big part in retiring jerseys. Bowen was a HUGE part in the last three titles. Tack that onto what he's meant to the city and the team, there's no way anyone can make a case that his jersey shouldn't be retired.

[nkdlunch]

LMAO Malik sucks.

Bowen's jersey will be retired.