Best European Player?

[dallaskd]

http://bp3.blogger.com/_UI-zql8UiPw/RnKYRO2zfVI/AAAAAAAAAB0/BWU_lLRHUY0/s200/parker_mvp_300_070614.jpg

http://bp3.blogger.com/_UI-zql8UiPw/RnKYaO2zfWI/AAAAAAAAAB8/jYWst4wFLEs/s200/mvpdirk_300.jpg

[dallaskd]

Pau Gasol..my bad

[Leetonidas]

I'm going to say TP, only because he's holding a Finals MVP Trophy and he didn't choke the Finals away and then choke away a good season in the first round.

[dallaskd]

Dirk
Okur
Parker
Gasol

[Leetonidas]

I don't see who would take Okur over Parker. The guy royally choked against the Spurs.

[nsrammstein]

I'm going to say TP, only because he's holding a Finals MVP Trophy and he didn't choke the Finals away and then choke away a good season in the first round.

Please take off your homer goggles and review your post, thank you.

[Bear Grylls]

I voted for Dirk 7 times

[stevallica]

Dirrrk!!

[freedom&justice]

Kinda obvious. No disrespect to Tony, but it's definitely Dirk.

[Leetonidas]

Please take off your homer goggles and review your post, thank you.
Please shut the fuck up and quit bitching because I didn't vote for your German pussy.

[dallaskd]

Please shut the fuck up and quit bitching because I didn't vote for your German pussy.

German pussy is great

[dg7md]

Dirk
Parker
Gasol
Okur
AK47

I don't think anybody can argue with these. The top 5 Euro-players in the NBA.

[dallaskd]

dang where is all the spurs homers?

[Bear Grylls]

dang where is all the spurs homers?

They might be homers, but they are not stupid.

[dirk4mvp]

Although he isn't the best Euro player in the league, Pau's name should be on the list. Especially since you've got guys like Peja and Boris up there.

[Johnny RIngo]

Tony Parker cause he's a winner. Dirk's too soft and chokes. Parker fills his role as a support player better than Dirk fills his role as a leader.

[Findog]

I'm going to say TP, only because he's holding a Finals MVP Trophy and he didn't choke the Finals away and then choke away a good season in the first round.

you're a moron.

[itzsoweezee]

They might be homers, but they are not stupid.

true. can't say the same for those dallas fans, however.

[confined]

I don't see who would take Okur over Parker. The guy royally choked against the Spurs.
you can't choke if you aren't the favorite or you dont have a lead in the series...stfu with the choking bullshit

[ShackO]

Can't believe Peja even make the list...............???

[Switchman]

Dirk is a joke. He is too soft and chokes when it counts.

[nsrammstein]

Please shut the fuck up and quit bitching because I didn't vote for your German pussy.

You seem to be taking my comment personally, are you Eva Longoria?

[Cry Havoc]

Are you people blind or just plain stupid...i'm sorry anyone taking Parker of Dirk is an moron or just too biased. Nobody in their right mind would take a 6-2 inch point guard over a 7 footer.

So you'd rather have Cherokee Parks than Pistol Pete? Shawn Bradley over Chris Paul? Mmkay.


So what Dirk had a bad series against golden state...shit he is still better than Parker, I love Parker game but doesn't say he is the best European Player that is just a flat out lie.

Since this is an opinion thread, there isn't really a "lie" to be had here. If I think J.J. Redick is the best player in basketball, that's not "lying", it's just incompetence. There's a difference.

Dirk deserves to be put in a unique category, because of his penchant for dominating the regular season but also due to his recent struggles against playoff competition. It did seem like the Mavs celebrated beating the Spurs last year like it was a Championship, and Dirk had 2 wretched games and another very poor one against the Heat. The Warriors displayed the ability to upset his game simply by manning up tight on him and taking the easy jumpers away, and by removing the mismatches created by pick-n-rolls.

Dirk is an anomaly. He's an MVP who was absolutely crushed in the first round against an inferior opponent with All-Star help around him. Bandy about matchups all you want, throw up buzzwords and talk about how the Mavs were "demoralized", the bottom line is that no superstar can blame being shut down on "matchups". Part of being the leader, one of the best players in the league is being unstoppable, to have an answer for everything.


Also, Parker has better teammates in Manu and Duncan then what Dirk has too. In the Cavs series it was pick your poison either Parker or Manu would dominate (except Manu's game 3)

Josh Howard? Jason Terry? Stack? Devin Harris? Wasn't this the team that was supposed to have the deepest bench in the NBA, the best collection of complementing talent?


Dirk is the best European player, hands down!

Parker is 25 and is already one of the most well-rounded PGs in the league. His passing skills have matured greatly, as has his court vision. He's very good on defense, and did everything we asked of him and more in this past playoff run.

Also, there's not a player in the league that can keep him from getting to the rim. All you need to stop Dirk is a few long SFs who are willing to play physical defense.

[Findog]

The # of GMs and scouts that would take Tony Parker over Dirk in a hypothetical draft: 0.

Parker is a very good player, but he's also the beneficiary of playing alongside the best power forward of all time. I'm beginning to think the Spurs have the highest percentage of homers of all fanbases.

[Cry Havoc]

The # of GMs and scouts that would take Tony Parker over Dirk in a hypothetical draft: 0.

Parker is a very good player, but he's also the beneficiary of playing alongside the best power forward of all time. I'm beginning to think the Spurs have the highest percentage of homers of all fanbases.

Dirk is almost 30. Parker just turned 25 in May. In 5 years, he could easily be the best PG in basketball.

[nsrammstein]

Dirk is almost 30. Parker just turned 25 in May. In 5 years, he could easily be the best PG in basketball.

I believe Chris Paul has something to say about that. Plus what can Parker add that could vastly improve his game? Will he magically turn into a 40% 3pt shooter? And dish out 10+ ast per game? Age dosen't matter in this discussion, because its about the BEST EUROPEAN PLAYER right now playing in the NBA. When Parker carries the Spurs to the NBA finals, and dosen't have the best PF in the history if NBA backing him up, then maybe you can make a case for him about being the best Euro in the NBA. But right now the best euro in the NBA is Dirk Nowitzki.

[Findog]

Dirk is almost 30. Parker just turned 25 in May. In 5 years, he could easily be the best PG in basketball.

FYI, it's 2007, not 2012.

[gaKNOW!blee]

IMO Diaw should be replaced with Pietrus.

even tho Tonys got the rings and awards, Dirk is the best player.

[CubanMustGo]

The # of GMs and scouts that would take Tony Parker over Dirk in a hypothetical draft: 0.

Parker is a very good player, but he's also the beneficiary of playing alongside the best power forward of all time. I'm beginning to think the Spurs have the highest percentage of homers of all fanbases.

Damn dude, look at the numbers in the poll before you drag out the homer card. Any fucking way Parker would get ANY votes on the mav boards?

[confined]

So you'd rather have Cherokee Parks than Pistol Pete? Shawn Bradley over Chris Paul? Mmkay.



Since this is an opinion thread, there isn't really a "lie" to be had here. If I think J.J. Redick is the best player in basketball, that's not "lying", it's just incompetence. There's a difference.

Dirk deserves to be put in a unique category, because of his penchant for dominating the regular season but also due to his recent struggles against playoff competition. It did seem like the Mavs celebrated beating the Spurs last year like it was a Championship, and Dirk had 2 wretched games and another very poor one against the Heat. The Warriors displayed the ability to upset his game simply by manning up tight on him and taking the easy jumpers away, and by removing the mismatches created by pick-n-rolls.

Dirk is an anomaly. He's an MVP who was absolutely crushed in the first round against an inferior opponent with All-Star help around him. Bandy about matchups all you want, throw up buzzwords and talk about how the Mavs were "demoralized", the bottom line is that no superstar can blame being shut down on "matchups". Part of being the leader, one of the best players in the league is being unstoppable, to have an answer for everything.



Josh Howard? Jason Terry? Stack? Devin Harris? Wasn't this the team that was supposed to have the deepest bench in the NBA, the best collection of complementing talent?



Parker is 25 and is already one of the most well-rounded PGs in the league. His passing skills have matured greatly, as has his court vision. He's very good on defense, and did everything we asked of him and more in this past playoff run.

Also, there's not a player in the league that can keep him from getting to the rim. All you need to stop Dirk is a few long SFs who are willing to play physical defense.
i said it once and ill say it again...spurs fans = biggest homers ever....this is just rediculous

[Findog]

Damn dude, look at the numbers in the poll before you drag out the homer card. Any fucking way Parker would get ANY votes on the mav boards?

It's akin to saying Devin Harris is better than Manu. Every fanbase has homers, including ours, so point taken.

[Cry Havoc]

I believe Chris Paul has something to say about that. Plus what can Parker add that could vastly improve his game? Will he magically turn into a 40% 3pt shooter? And dish out 10+ ast per game?

If Parker did either of these, he would quickly become a top 5 player in the league.


Age dosen't matter in this discussion, because its about the BEST EUROPEAN PLAYER right now playing in the NBA. When Parker carries the Spurs to the NBA finals, and dosen't have the best PF in the history if NBA backing him up, then maybe you can make a case for him about being the best Euro in the NBA. But right now the best euro in the NBA is Dirk Nowitzki.

Notice I never said that Parker was the best. I was merely making a statement that he's closer than most think. Just playing the advocate, that's all.

[Cry Havoc]

i said it once and ill say it again...spurs fans = biggest homers ever....this is just rediculous

When you fail to spell simple words properly, you leave little room to call others out. Just saying.

[Findog]

When you fail to spell simple words properly, you leave little room to call others out. Just saying.

Grammar and spelling pedantry. Sweet!

[Leetonidas]

:lmao @ Mav Fan crying because I didn't vote for Dirk's soft pussy.

Look, Dirk is a great player, and while I do believe he is a better scorer, he is not a leader, he is passive, and he is not as good a defender as Parker. Starting a franchise, I'd take Dirk over Tony because Dirk is a bigger matchup problem and he is a great shooter.

But, if I need a PG, I'd take Tony over anyone in the league except Nash.

[Cry Havoc]

Grammar and spelling pedantry. Sweet!

You're right. Getting steamed over an internet debate and resorting to name-calling and vast generalizations over an entire fanbase is so much better. My mistake.

In the future, I'll be mindful not to make posts in threads such as this, since they quickly devolve into "right and wrong" and not civilized discourse about the various facts and opines that accompany each idea.

Go back to admiring your MVP trophy.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

How is this even a question? Its definitely Dirk. Parker is a great point guard, but not a franchise player. Dirk, despite this and last year's playoff debacles is still a franchise player.

[Findog]

Getting steamed over an internet debate and resorting to name-calling and vast generalizations over an entire fanbase is so much better. My mistake.

Who said I'm angry? I just find it comical that the homers in your fanbase would go so far as to claim Tony Parker > Dirk. Only 14 year old girls in pink Josh Howard jerseys would say something like Devin Harris > Manu. There are idiot homers in other fanbases. Perhaps the perspective is skewed by visiting a Spurs board.


In the future, I'll be mindful not to make posts in threads such as this, since they quickly devolve into "right and wrong" and not civilized discourse about the various facts and opines that accompany each idea....Go back to admiring your MVP trophy

What was that you were saying?




He's an MVP who was absolutely crushed in the first round against an inferior opponent with All-Star help around him.

19, 10 and 3 is "crushed"? He did that playing out of position at C because Dampier was out with a torn rotator cuff. I wonder what kind of shooting guard Timmy would make, or how many guys Tony Parker would be able to post up on the low blocks if Pop put him at the four. What All-Star help are you referring to? Josh Howard, the injury replacement? How many small forwards are better than him in the West? Carmelo, Marion (don't care what he's listed at), Rashard Lewis, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, that's five off the top of my head. And how are the Warriors inferior? The same Warriors that lost 49 games due to injury for B-Diddy and Jason Richardson? Do you think San Antonio would've finished 58-24 if Parker and Manu missed that many games? The same Warriors that received a major talent upgrade in Harrington and S-Jax? The same Warriors that went 16-5 down the stretch with everybody healthy and that new roster together? Those "inferior" Warriors?


Bandy about matchups all you want, throw up buzzwords and talk about how the Mavs were "demoralized", the bottom line is that no superstar can blame being shut down on "matchups".

19, 10 and 3 playing out of position is being "shut down"? Subpar for him, sure, but "shut down"?


Part of being the leader, one of the best players in the league is being unstoppable, to have an answer for everything.

So when Bowen guards Howard and Dirk takes Timmy out to the high post and torches him, is that having an answer for everything?



Dirk deserves to be put in a unique category, because of his penchant for dominating the regular season but also due to his recent struggles against playoff competition

Yeah, the regular season isn't important. Since we're a popular team, we get an invitation and a ticket to the playoffs and don't have to garner one of the top 8 records. I guess we could say the same thing about Timmy -- the Spurs dominated the regular season in 2004 but coughed up a 2-0 lead to the Lakers. They also had the best regular season record in 2006 but coughed up a 3-point lead to the Mavs in Game 7. I could use a word that starts with c and is 5 letters long, but how fair would that be?

[confined]

You're right. Getting steamed over an internet debate and resorting to name-calling and vast generalizations over an entire fanbase is so much better. My mistake.

In the future, I'll be mindful not to make posts in threads such as this, since they quickly devolve into "right and wrong" and not civilized discourse about the various facts and opines that accompany each idea.

Go back to admiring your MVP trophy.
did you seriously try to diss me for my grammar?...you need to stop and think about where your life is going buddy

[spursfan09]

:lol Mav fans shouldn't be upset cause right now Spur fans think TP is the greatest. He just won a finals MVP. It can't get much better than that.

[confined]

Wow this has just become a pathetic thread...I can't believe all the arguments over this..it's pretty sad.

Let's just end it already....Dirk is the best European Player Ever..Period!!!!!!!!

Tony isn't a leader either, It's Duncan and then Manu...Tony is the best slasher in the NBA and he is becoming a great shooter too...but please people he isn't the best European player let alone a leader on the Spurs.
:tu

[Money316]

German pussy is great
Dirk's reaction after eating some

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/images/dirk-nowitzki.jpg

[MrChug]

I voted for Dirk.

The vote didn't call for the best leader on the list which Parker is the clear frontrunner.

[Johnny RIngo]

i said it once and ill say it again...spurs fans = biggest homers ever....this is just rediculous

Mavstalk?

Arizonafagfans.com?

[confined]

Mavstalk?

Arizonafagfans.com?
what?

[Johnny RIngo]

what?

You want homers go to those two sites.

[Cry Havoc]

Who said I'm angry? I just find it comical that the homers in your fanbase would go so far as to claim Tony Parker > Dirk. Only 14 year old girls in pink Josh Howard jerseys would say something like Devin Harris > Manu. There are idiot homers in other fanbases. Perhaps the perspective is skewed by visiting a Spurs board.

It's difficult not to see Parker as the next dominant point right now. He's one of the most unguardable players in the league, and he's pretty damn solid on defense.

However, I agree with the statement that Dirk is still the best Euro-player. I was merely attempting to assert the claim that Parker deserves to be in contention, or mentioned in the same breath, as more than a completely fallacious one. But of course, making any kind of a statement other than black and white on this board is immediately pissed upon.

For the record, the "angry" comment wasn't even directed at you. You have a habit of being defensive (don't we all) but I wouldn't lump you into the category of someone who retorts with, "OMG U INSULTID MY FAV. PLAYUR DIE DIE DIE". Yet. :hat


What was that you were saying?

I apologize. I was merely miffed at your response, and the fact that you seem to have missed my point entirely.



19, 10 and 3 is "crushed"? He did that playing out of position at C because Dampier was out with a torn rotator cuff.

He shot 38% from the field. And at least a few points came from late minute garbage time when the Warriors were busy celebrating.


I wonder what kind of shooting guard Timmy would make, or how many guys Tony Parker would be able to post up on the low blocks if Pop put him at the four.

Uh, what? They're both Power Forwards. Duncan did just FINE playing the 5 spot. So what, because Dirk is a shooter, it somehow alleviates him from playing post-defense? Or stopping Bierdins? :lol Dirk was a liability in that series and just disappeared at times. Your comparison is completely flawed. Dirk should have developed a better low-post game if there was a CHANCE of him playing that position. Duncan would never get stuck at the two, so he doesn't need to be a bomber or learn how to guard Ray Allen.



What All-Star help are you referring to? Josh Howard, the injury replacement? How many small forwards are better than him in the West? Carmelo, Marion (don't care what he's listed at), Rashard Lewis, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, that's five off the top of my head. And how are the Warriors inferior? The same Warriors that lost 49 games due to injury for B-Diddy and Jason Richardson?

You're making excuses for a team that won 67 games in the regular season? Because Golden State was better than as-billed? What, you think they would have made a run at 70 if they were healthy? Come on. You're selling out the entire Mavs team just to defend Dirk.


Do you think San Antonio would've finished 58-24 if Parker and Manu missed that many games?

As I recall, the Spurs had a pretty damn good regular season when Duncan was hobbled all year with his plantar fasciitis.


The same Warriors that received a major talent upgrade in Harrington and S-Jax? The same Warriors that went 16-5 down the stretch with everybody healthy and that new roster together? Those "inferior" Warriors?

Yeah, that team was SO awesome that they were completely dismantled by the Utah Jazz, who might have 6 pubic hairs between them.



19, 10 and 3 playing out of position is being "shut down"? Subpar for him, sure, but "shut down"?

I've never in my life seen a superstar, let alone an MVP, disappear so rapidly in a series. You can cite his statlines, the bottom line is that Dirk was a non-factor in the series, except for the game where he went for 30+.

*edit* My mistake, his high point total was 23. And you're defending him. Hmmm. 8-10 and 2 in a lose-or-go-home game? That's a horrific way to go out. Why you are trying to so hard to alleviate him of all blame is just staggering. So it's Avery's fault? It's the role player's fault? It's the other All-Star's fault, who you would have been swept without? Just keep making those excuses for Dirk.



So when Bowen guards Howard and Dirk takes Timmy out to the high post and torches him, is that having an answer for everything?

Duncan's the best post-defender in the league. Dirk couldn't guard a single player on the Warriors. Duncan was a MONSTER in the 2006 WC2R. He outplayed Dirk for that entire series. Jordan has been burnt by players before, but he had the most well-rounded game of anyone the league has ever seen. This isn't a one-time occurrence with Dirk.



Yeah, the regular season isn't important. Since we're a popular team, we get an invitation and a ticket to the playoffs and don't have to garner one of the top 8 records. I guess we could say the same thing about Timmy -- the Spurs dominated the regular season in 2004 but coughed up a 2-0 lead to the Lakers. They also had the best regular season record in 2006 but coughed up a 3-point lead to the Mavs in Game 7. I could use a word that starts with c and is 5 letters long, but how fair would that be?

It's well known that the Spurs have let games slip away in the past.

It's equally as impressive that, had they not, they could likely be going for their SIXTH straight title defense, rather than their 4th in 6 years. Note the difference? You can call the Spurs chokers all they want, but they've got it done. Repeatedly (just not in repeat). Enough that they're being referred to by some as a dynasty, and if they defend next year, it will be an absolute lock in 90+% of the sports worlds' eyes. But call a dynasty (or a potential one) chokers all you want, if that's what makes you feel better. :drunk

[Johnny RIngo]

A small part of me actually thought the Mavs were cheated in the Finals but the first round collapse reaffirmed my belief that the Mavs are simply chokers. I don't care if they can't match up with GS...no 67 win team should be eliminated by an 8th seed. If your coach can't make proper adjustments or your star players don't step up then you deserve to be labeled chokers.

[Josepatches]

You only have to see that even the "actual" Jacque Vaughn seems to be a good second PG playing in the Spurs.That's say all.Parker is an amazing PG but he has an amazing teammates and the best PF of the history so it´s really difficult to stop him.
Pau is the second better european player right now.MVP of the world championship last year.
This september there are an European Championship and this 3 players will be there.We'll see who is better without Duncan,Manu,Terry or Howard.In the last one I believe Dirk was the MVP.
About the list,there are better players playing in Europe than Ilgauskas,Diaw(this year,not last year) or Okur like Papaloukas and Juan Carlos Navarro.
In the future I believe in Bargnani,he could be as good as Dirk.

[Cry Havoc]

Parker
Ginobili
Nowitzki
Diaw
Gasol

That's a pretty ferocious lineup.

On a side note, it's surprising that Peja made this list while Manu did not.

[Fillmoe]

right now...... dirk



best European player ever.....

http://www.interbasket.net/players/petrovic.jpg

[Tippecanoe]

Parker
Ginobili
Nowitzki
Diaw
Gasol

That's a pretty ferocious lineup.

On a side note, it's surprising that Peja made this list while Manu did not.

argentina is not exactly europe

[Cry Havoc]

argentina is not exactly europe

Europe... S. America.... same difference. :lol

Yeah, that's my goof. I kept trying to avoid thinking "foreign players" but it just happened eventually.

[Findog]

A small part of me actually thought the Mavs were cheated in the Finals but the first round collapse reaffirmed my belief that the Mavs are simply chokers. I don't care if they can't match up with GS...no 67 win team should be eliminated by an 8th seed. If your coach can't make proper adjustments or your star players don't step up then you deserve to be labeled chokers.

Well Avery has always wanted us to be more Spur-like. You guys gave away a 3 point lead in Game 7 against us and a 2-0 lead to the Lakers in 2004. We learned how to choke from the Master.

[Leetonidas]

Well Avery has always wanted us to be more Spur-like. You guys gave away a 3 point lead in Game 7 against us and a 2-0 lead to the Lakers in 2004. We learned how to choke from the Master.
That has to be the stupidest post ever. We gave up a 3 point lead? Didn't Dallas have a 21 point lead in that game?

[Findog]

It's difficult not to see Parker as the next dominant point right now. He's one of the most unguardable players in the league, and he's pretty damn solid on defense.


Agreed. When you factor in defense, he's better than Nash overall, even if Nash is a better creator and a better outside shooter. There's a reason Nash's teams have never beaten Parker's teams in the playoffs, aside from Duncan.


However, I agree with the statement that Dirk is still the best Euro-player. I was merely attempting to assert the claim that Parker deserves to be in contention, or mentioned in the same breath, as more than a completely fallacious one. But of course, making any kind of a statement other than black and white on this board is immediately pissed upon.

Well, that's fine, Parker is fast becoming one of the elite players in the League. I was just mainly reacting to your homers that kept asserting Parker > Dirk.


For the record, the "angry" comment wasn't even directed at you. You have a habit of being defensive (don't we all) but I wouldn't lump you into the category of someone who retorts with, "OMG U INSULTID MY FAV. PLAYUR DIE DIE DIE". Yet. :hat

Well, I'm gonna defend my team within reason. I'm not some bandwagoner that jumps off when times are tough. Dirk deserves plenty of criticism for GState, but it's just snowballed into stupid smacktalk: "He's a loser, he's a choker." If Warriors fans want to say that, fine, but it's a little much to take from Spurs fans when they have their own history of giving up leads and they've been sent home by Dirk. Not directed at you personally, but show some fucking respect, we've earned it.

I personally like talking X's and O's instead of lame trashtalk. There's not really a way for a Mavs fan to win a smacktalking contest with a Spurs fan, based on the disparity in success between the two franchises.



Uh, what? They're both Power Forwards. Duncan did just FINE playing the 5 spot. So what, because Dirk is a shooter, it somehow alleviates him from playing post-defense? Or stopping Bierdins? :lol Dirk was a liability in that series and just disappeared at times. Your comparison is completely flawed. Dirk should have developed a better low-post game if there was a CHANCE of him playing that position. Duncan would never get stuck at the two, so he doesn't need to be a bomber or learn how to guard Ray Allen.


They're completely different players, and Duncan > Dirk. Seems a bit unfair to ask Dirk to play as good post defense as Duncan. I wish Dirk was a better post defender but he's never had the footwork or the lateral speed that Duncan has. For that reason, Dirk will never reach the heights of Duncan. We signed Dampier for that very reason, to avoid sticking Dirk on dominant bigs like Duncan, Amare, Yao, etc and getting into foul trouble. My only point is that Dirk is being held solely responsible for us losing that series, when Avery did a lousy job of coaching and none of his teammates save for Diop played well. I don't mind criticizing Dirk for not playing well, but it was subpar, not awful, and he had plenty of "help" in losing that series.


You're making excuses for a team that won 67 games in the regular season? Because Golden State was better than as-billed? What, you think they would have made a run at 70 if they were healthy? Come on. You're selling out the entire Mavs team just to defend Dirk.

If you look at the efficiency ratings, the point differential and such, the Mavs project out at 60 wins, not 67. 60 wins is about what we averaged the past 2 years. Don't you think part of that was the team going all out in full frenzy, partly because they wanted to atone for letting the Finals slip away? We didn't take the regular season off like Miami. I think we lost one game total to a lottery team - an early season loss to the Clippers. 30-something-1 against lottery teams is insane. I believe San Antonio lost 6 or 7 games against lottery teams. And how many of those wins were racked up against teams that were tanking? San Antonio has mastered the art of finding the balance between coasting and going all-out fifth gear so they're humming right along come April. And Golden State had a major talent upgrade and suffered from lots of injuries. It was an upset and it was a bad matchup, but the talent level of the two clubs made it more akin to a second-round matchup, not a typical 1 vs 8 seed matchup. Would we be calling it a historic chokejob if a 53-win team beat a 60-win team? No. And I'm not selling out the Mavs other players - J-Ho is a budding star, Harris has shown promise, Terry is a great outside shooter, Diop and Damp do the dirty work on the low blocks, but how many All-Stars are on this team besides Dirk? One, and that's a stretch at that, mainly because of how deep the forwards are in the West, not because of any flaws to J-Ho's game.




As I recall, the Spurs had a pretty damn good regular season when Duncan was hobbled all year with his plantar fasciitis.

I've had pf, it's a PAINFUL, PAINFUL injury, but you can play on it. And I didn't have the Spurs trainers tending to my feet 24-7. Duncan put up 32-13 in that series, that's him at his most effective. I'm tired of Spurs fans using that as an excuse. If I wanted to play that game, I could note that Dirk had been playing basketball for a solid 20 months straight, first an NBA season that didn't end until late June 2006, then the German national team, then another regular season. His numbers went down after the All-Star game because he was tired. If we're not allowed to make excuses for his subpar play, at least extend the same tough standards to your own team.



Yeah, that team was SO awesome that they were completely dismantled by the Utah Jazz, who might have 6 pubic hairs between them.

Against San Antonio, Terry gives the Spurs fits with his outside shooting (Parker has no size advantage) and Harris with his ability to get to the rim. Against Golden State, they give up so much size and strength to Davis and Richardson. Dampier gives us rebounding and can score on Al Harrington, but he hardly played bc of a torn rotator cuff. Utah has a big, muscular guard to cancel out B-Diddy (Williams) and a low-post beast (Boozer). That's how you beat small ball.




I've never in my life seen a superstar, let alone an MVP, disappear so rapidly in a series. You can cite his statlines, the bottom line is that Dirk was a non-factor in the series, except for the game where he went for 30+.

*edit* My mistake, his high point total was 23. And you're defending him. Hmmm. 8-10 and 2 in a lose-or-go-home game? That's a horrific way to go out. Why you are trying to so hard to alleviate him of all blame is just staggering. So it's Avery's fault? It's the role player's fault? It's the other All-Star's fault, who you would have been swept without? Just keep making those excuses for Dirk.

I'm saying he had a subpar series playing out of position. I'm not defending his performance in Game 6, I just prefer to take his entire body of work into account before throwing him under the bus. The player your fellow Spurs fans describe could never lead a team past Tim Duncan. Why are you trying so hard to pin the entire Warrior series on him? Did you not notice Nellie running circles around Avery? Did you not notice JET unable to hit water from a boat when Dirk got swarmed with double and triple teams? Did you not notice Devin Harris and Diop spent much of the series in foul trouble and thus their impact was mitigated since they couldn't stay on the court? Did you notice how we got NOTHING from Buckner, Damp (injury) and George? Did you not notice how J-Ho tended to disappear in the second halves of those games? Dirk didn't play up to his standards and I'll criticize him for that. But I refuse to pin it all on him.



Duncan's the best post-defender in the league. Dirk couldn't guard a single player on the Warriors.

Well, gee, Nellie threw out Davis and four 6-7 wings. What team do you think he had in mind when he made the trade for Harrington and Jackson? Who was a 7-footer like Dirk supposed to guard? I wonder how well Duncan would guard a 6-7 wing....hmmm.....Oh I got it! Have you ever seen what happens when Pop puts Bowen on Dirk and Duncan has to "guard" Josh Howard?


Duncan was a MONSTER in the 2006 WC2R. He outplayed Dirk for that entire series.

No, they were both magnificent and cancelled each other out. "Timmy was hurt because of pf" or "Timmy was awesome and never better." Pick a lane please.


It's equally as impressive that, had they not, they could likely be going for their SIXTH straight title defense, rather than their 4th in 6 years. Note the difference? You can call the Spurs chokers all they want, but they've got it done. Repeatedly (just not in repeat). Enough that they're being referred to by some as a dynasty, and if they defend next year, it will be an absolute lock in 90+% of the sports worlds' eyes. But call a dynasty (or a potential one) chokers all you want, if that's what makes you feel better.


I don't think the Spurs are chokers and the Mavs aren't either. I don't believe in the phenomenon. Can you not give credit to Pat Riley for making adjustments and outcoaching Avery? Can you not give credit to Wade for stepping his game up when his team needed it the most? Did Dirk guard Wade? Is Wade's monster series Dirk's fault? In our Game 6 loss, Dirk put up 29 points and 15 rebounds, it's not all on him for us losing to Miami. He came to play when we were facing elimination but Wade was better. He had a horrible game when facing elimination against the Warriors. It's just blanket statements to judge a guy and not take his entire body of work into account. Yeah, a guy who has a 5-0 record lifetime in deciding games, a guy who went into San Antonio on the road and beat the defending champs in their building, he sucks. It's true he's got a history of not showing up when it matters, but he also has a history of coming through in the clutch as well. Nobody bats a .1000. I just prefer to look at the whole picture.

[Findog]

That has to be the stupidest post ever. We gave up a 3 point lead? Didn't Dallas have a 21 point lead in that game?

Didn't Dallas win the game? Didn't you guys cough up a 2-0 lead to the Lakers in 2004? Considering Dirk came into your building and beat you in a Game 7, and that you have your own history of giving away leads, you might want to be a little more circumspect. I thought Spurs fans were supposed to be knowledgeable. Too bad that "class" of the Spurs organization doesn't always rub off on some of you.

[Spurs rock]

Dirk hands down.

[Spurs rock]

Well Avery has always wanted us to be more Spur-like. You guys gave away a 3 point lead in Game 7 against us and a 2-0 lead to the Lakers in 2004. We learned how to choke from the Master.

Wow a 3 point lead??? You know what? The Cavs were winning 2-0 in the first qtr. of game 4 of the Finals and they still lost. They choked!!!

[Findog]

Wow a 3 point lead??? You know what? The Cavs were winning 2-0 in the first qtr. of game 4 of the Finals and they still lost. They choked!!!

You know the sequence - 3 points, 30 seconds to play. Don't be disengenuous.

[velik_m]

What, no Rasho?

[ArgSpursFan]

right now...... dirk



best European player ever.....

http://www.interbasket.net/players/petrovic.jpg


Man,I used to watch every Petrovic´s Game when He was a Real Madrid player.
too bad he died young,He coud´ve been greater tham Nash.
I believe He played for the Blazers too,right?

[Taco]

right now...... dirk



best European player ever.....

http://www.interbasket.net/players/petrovic.jpg

Amen

This Dude helped open the door for the Euro's


R.I.P. Drazen Petrovic

[Texas_Ranger]

I'm sorry TP, but Dirk is better.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Didn't Dallas win the game? Didn't you guys cough up a 2-0 lead to the Lakers in 2004? Considering Dirk came into your building and beat you in a Game 7, and that you have your own history of giving away leads, you might want to be a little more circumspect. I thought Spurs fans were supposed to be knowledgeable. Too bad that "class" of the Spurs organization doesn't always rub off on some of you.


The Spurs did come back from 3-1 and 21 points in that series, I dont think THEM losing is much of a choke.

Yes, the Spurs choked against the Lakers in 2004, but look what they come back and do the next year, win a championship, not lose to an 8 seed. Its all about how you respond.

[Findog]

The Spurs did come back from 3-1 and 21 points in that series, I dont think THEM losing is much of a choke.

Yes, the Spurs choked against the Lakers in 2004, but look what they come back and do the next year, win a championship, not lose to an 8 seed. Its all about how you respond.

Well, hopefully we can bounce back like the Spurs. That's what's currently separating the two franchises. A team like San Antonio doesn't usually cough up a big lead.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Well, hopefully we can bounce back like the Spurs. That's what's currently separating the two franchises. A team like San Antonio doesn't usually cough up a big lead.


And thats the great thing about sports, there is always next year. If the Mavs win next year all this 8th seed talk gets thrown out the window, Spurs fans will still bring it up, but Mavs fans will be able to laugh it off knowing it was just a learning experience.

Theres also a bad part. The sad reality is, the Mavs could three-peat in 2008,2009,2010, and you guys still would get no respect around this board because you would still have 1 less than the Spurs. Thats why championships are such a great thing, they last forever, and can forever be used as an arguing point.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Europe... S. America.... same difference. :lol

Yeah, that's my goof. I kept trying to avoid thinking "foreign players" but it just happened eventually."recession, procession. it's all the same thing"

[Cry Havoc]

"recession, procession. it's all the same thing"

Congress, progress. Yeah, I know.

[silverheart]

Dirk
Okur
Parker
Gasol

Okur over Parker?

[nsrammstein]

Theres also a bad part. The sad reality is, the Mavs could three-peat in 2008,2009,2010, and you guys still would get no respect around this board because you would still have 1 less than the Spurs. Thats why championships are such a great thing, they last forever, and can forever be used as an arguing point.

Boston Celtics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rest of the teams in the NBA!!

[Leetonidas]

Boston Celtics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rest of the teams in the NBA!!
I think the difference is the Spurs' championships have been recent, whereas the Celtics haven't won shit in like 20 years.

[nsrammstein]

Thats why championships are such a great thing, they last forever, and can forever be used as an arguing point.

[dallaskd]

What, no Rasho?

:lol

[gaKNOW!blee]

Boston Celtics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rest of the teams in the NBA!!
Yeah, you proved my point, I know celtic fans who always bring the # of championships whenever I brag about the Spurs.

[dallaskd]

FYI, it's 2007, not 2012.

yeah age doesnt matter. dirks in his prime. parker in a couple years..

[nsrammstein]

Yeah, you proved my point, I know celtic fans who always bring the # of championships whenever I brag about the Spurs.

Well then I guess we agree that it is a fact that the Celtics is the best team in the NBA

[Johnny RIngo]

Thank God I'm not a Mavs fans. Bragging about western conference banners is pretty weak.

[Findog]

Thank God I'm not a Mavs fans. Bragging about western conference banners is pretty weak.

You seem angry.

[mathbzh]

Call him soft or choker but Dirk is still the best Euro.

[ArgSpursFan]

Well then I guess we agree that it is a fact that the Celtics was the best team in the NBA

fixed.
BTW,a long long time ago.

[Findog]

fixed.
BTW,a long long time ago.

were, not was.

[Johnny RIngo]

You seem angry.

You seem overly defensive about the back to back chokejobs.