Rasho the Enigma

[Ghost Writer]

Things are going so well for the Spurs that I have to nitpick here a little.

I don't get this dude.

I can't tell if I am a Rasho supporter or if I've given up on this dude.

If he did anything last playoffs, we might've gotten a third title.

Not to put the blame on him.

But this season, he looks worse than last year.

I kind of wonder what the front office was thinking when they figured they would replace the gentle giant, David Robinson, with Rasho, who looks like a oversized, scared little boy who spent time suffering in a third world country.

Rasho, you are 7 feet tall.

The Spurs are paying you good money.

We're not asking for a world beater, here.

Just act like you care, for krissakes.

[SequSpur]

Agreed.

[smeagol]

Rasho, who looks like a oversized, scared little boy who spent time suffering in a third world country.
Do you mean Slovenia?

I thouht Slovenia was part of Europe, not a third world country where everybody, according to you, appears to suffer.

[SequSpur]

Didn't somebody here say Manu was European because he was from Argentina? :lol

Some of these Geography Scholars..... LMAO.

[smeagol]

Didn't somebody here say Manu was European because he was from Argentina? :lol

Some of these Geography Scholars..... LMAO.
If somebody really said that . . . well that person is one ignorant dude!

[boutons]

"one ignorant dude"

Every country's full of them. The USA even has one ignorant dude for President :)

[SequSpur]

President Smack is only allowed by Americans. Post your birth certificate.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Ummm, getting back to the point, while I agree that Rasho was pretty abyssmal in the postseason last year I really don't think he's been worse this year. I've seen marked improvement in his defense and hustle on the offensive glass. He's still not a consistent enough shooter to completely draw his man out of the paint much, but I think he's doing well enough.

[smeagol]

Ummm, getting back to the point, while I agree that Rasho was pretty abyssmal in the postseason last year I really don't think he's been worse this year. I've seen marked improvement in his defense and hustle on the offensive glass. He's still not a consistent enough shooter to completely draw his man out of the paint much, but I think he's doing well enough.
Agreed.

And though he should get more boards due to his height, I think his rebounding has improved.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think Rasho's doing about as good as can be expected. You've got to realize anytime we match up with the teams that have quick posts, Rasho's going to be pretty marginalized, and that's been the case as of late.

[ChumpDumper]

I'd venture a guess that Ghost has seen about half the Spurs games this season. Missed some good ones from Rasho. AHF is right -- none of our bigs save Duncan is going to excel in every matchup, which is precisely why the other bigs are here.

[timvp]

Rasho has played well overall this season. The last week or so he hasn't shown up, though. But he has a history of doing that. He's always been an inconistent player, going back to his European league days.

Once he brings it every night, he'll be solid. He's big, has very good hands, is mobile enough and has a nice touch.

Last night I was kinda pissed when he got that offensive rebound and then went up softer than an unmedicated Rafael Palmiero ... but I guess that is something Spurs fans have to live with.

[SequSpur]

He played the same way in Minnesota, he has continued that mode in San Antonio, I don't think he is capable of "bringing it".

But, I will say this, the Center position is obsolete on most teams, therefore having someone like him on the team is not a necessity. A guy who is 6 10 or 6 11 with some hustle and the capability of rebounding, defending and the ability to dunk from 3 ft away is about all the Spurs need. Over an 82 game season, that player would be more than capable of learning the right way to play alongside Duncan and the Spurs would be better off.

Valued lessons learned from Minnesota. Why does Pop think he can mold him into something he is not?

[ChumpDumper]

I guy who is 6 10 or 6 11 with some hustle and the capability of rebounding, defending and the ability to dunk from 3 ft away is about all the Spurs need.Nope. Key jumper is a must for spacing.
Valued lessons learned from Minnesota.Who wanted to pay more than the Spurs to keep Rasho....

[SequSpur]

Chumpdumper, turn on your TV, watch a game and get back with me.

[ChumpDumper]

Watched all but one.

And I wasn't bowling.

Learn something about offensive spacing and get back to me.

[Ghost Writer]

I've seen more than half of the Spurs games and I also look at numbers.

And I don't see how you guys think Rasho has improved or done even as well as last year.

What suggests this?

I guess my main concern is that we replaced a characteristically passive center with a softer center.

The only thing is that Robinson was a Hall of Famer and Rasho is, well, Rasho.

Then again, the Spurs didn't get a superstar big man and the other centers on Rasho's level back then aren't any better.

I just don't see Rasho looking anymore ingrained or improved this year.

[ChumpDumper]

When he's on he's on.

When he's not he's not.

Like all the other bigs save Duncan.
I also look at numbersWhich explains your bias against Bowen as well. If it doesn't show up it the box or fantasy numbers, it didn't happen.

Known.

You aren't going to do better for the same money, so what are you really complaining about?

[timvp]

If you just go by numbers, Ghost has a point. Rasho's stats aren't too impressive.

Rasho is averaging less points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks ... and is shooting a worse percentage from the field and the line.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I have to admit, as I watched Sam Dalambert run around the other night vs. SA, I couldn't help but wonder about having someone long and athletic like him next to Tim and how good our interior D would be.

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah Dalembert's so good that he doesn't even start on a crap team like Philly :rolleyes

[Ghost Writer]

DumpChumper, read the whole post. It's easy to make yourself appear to have a point when you seize on one thing out of context.

Bowen's numbers blow and he's not the elite defender anymore at this point. Give me a bum like Eric Williams who can play on both sides of the floor.

Anyway...

Virtually all of Rasho's numbers are down and he doesn't bring an intangible like Bowen does with his admittedly strong perimeter defense.

In his second year with the Spurs, shouldn't he be performing better?

[Ghost Writer]

I like Aggie's idea.

And let's be fair... Dalembert fell out of favor, because Philly got a new coach and he's been hurt on and off over the last month.

Dalembert killed it over the last month of last season.

Dalembert is a young, tall, athletic, dunking, shot-blocking big man like my man Stromile Swift, who Fratello would be smart to start.

[ChumpDumper]

Bowen's numbers blow and he's not the elite defender anymore at this point.Really?

Sincerely,

Rip Hamilton
And let's be fair... Dalembert fell out of favorGee, why? You can make excuses for him, but the simple fact is he lost his starting spot to Mark Jackson and a guy who played for the Idaho Stampede last year. That's like replacing Bowen with a rookie Devin Brown. WTF?

And IF Dalembert actually does live up to his one month of quality play, how much does he get? Spur money?

[ChumpDumper]

The grass is always greener, the ball is always balla.

[SequSpur]

Wasn't this topic about Rasho? How does balla involve Rasho? Dude, watch a game. You can't possible tell me that this guy isn't passive. The bad thing is, he is not even passive aggressive.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Come on Kori, we've taken other people's "trash" and made them into players before.

This team has been the poster child for a second chance.

[SequSpur]

Question: What would the Spurs record be without Rasho? This year and last year?

Better?, no change?, Worse?

I would say no change to better.

[Jimcs50]

We would be in horrible shape.

Rasho is to Tim what DRob was. He allows Tim to move away from the basket because Rasho can guard the paint and grab offensive rebounds just as well as David did. Remember last year when Tim was out? Rasho carried the team and kept their winning streak hot.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Wow, that's a bold statement. I guess if comparing strictly their on court roles then I guess there is some similarity. DRob was a better rebounder and in reality probably could have carried a much larger scoring load in his last years if he had been called upon to. And the reality of Rasho's rebounding is that for every actual rebound he gets there's usually another rebound that a spur gets to because Rasho tips it and keeps it alive.
People around here should know by now that you can't measure many of the guys on this team strictly by stats.

[SequSpur]

People around here should know by now that you can't measure many of the guys on this team strictly by stats.

Rasho is passive. PERIOD.


Rasho is to Tim what DRob was

This has to be one of the worst takes ever. Anybody who thinks that this is a slim possiblity is absolutely insane. Maybe if David Robinson was in a wheelchair.

Until David retired, he could hold down the paint all by himself. Robinson's neighborhood. Dude is a former MVP, 10 year allstar, Defensive player of the year, and many other accolades that could take up a whole forum page.

Rasho = David.

Sad.

Ask Tim if Rasho = David.

[Jimcs50]

Rasho is passive. PERIOD.



This has to be one of the worst takes ever. Anybody who thinks that this is a slim possiblity is absolutely insane. Maybe if David Robinson was in a wheelchair.

Until David retired, he could hold down the paint all by himself. Robinson's neighborhood. Dude is a former MVP, 10 year allstar, Defensive player of the year, and many other accolades that could take up a whole forum page.

Rasho = David.

Sad.

Ask Tim if Rasho = David.


Helloooo McFly????

You were asking if last year, we did not have Rasho, not 7 yrs ago.... :rolleyes

I am not talking about the DRob of his early years, I am talking about the last couple of yrs...look at the stats, look at the rebs and look at the defensive blks and changed shot. :rolleyes

[SequSpur]

Jim,

It is scripture that David did all the other things so that Tim could flourish. He put the scoring and the touches in Tim's hands. David could have easily averaged 20 and 10 on any team in the NBA in 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003. Rasho could never do that.

Your statement is ridiculous.

[T Park]

Your ridiculous.

Once again short shit, find a center that was available at the time, that was better.


STFU and go back to polishing your bowling wrist thing.

[Jimcs50]

Jim,

It is scripture that David did all the other things so that Tim could flourish. He put the scoring and the touches in Tim's hands. David could have easily averaged 20 and 10 on any team in the NBA in 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003. Rasho could never do that.

Your statement is ridiculous.

Sequ, your statement is pure conjecture, and wrong. DRob could not average 20 a night the last 2 trs, there is no fucking way in hell. He was a cripple, a shell of his former self, and could not play more than 28 mins a game. TD barely averages 20 a game for Crissakes...get off it. :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

[SequSpur]

David Robinson's Career Highlights

Named the league's MVP in 1995
NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 1992
NBA Rookie of the Year in 1990
Has won the IBM Award five times: 1990, 1991, 1994, 1995 and 1996
Won the NBA Rebounding Title in 1991, the NBA Blocked Shots Title in 1992 and the NBA Scoring Title in 1994 (he and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar are the only two players in NBA history to win each of the three titles)
Honored with the 2001 NBA Sportsmanship Award
Named to the All-NBA First Team four times (1991, 1992, 1995 and 1996) the All-NBA Second Team twice (1994 and 1998) and the All-NBA Third Team three times (1990, 1993 and 2000)
Named to the NBA All-Defensive First Team four times (1991, 1992, 1995 and 1996) and the All-Defensive Second Team four times (1990, 1993, 1994 and 1998)
Is the only player in NBA history to be named to both an All-NBA Team and an NBA All-Defensive Team in each of his first seven NBA seasons (since the NBA started the All-Defensive Team in 1968-69)
A 10-time All-Star
In 1996 named one of the NBA's 50 Greatest Players of All-Time
The Spurs all-time NBA leader in games, rebounds, blocked shots, assists and both FT made and attempted and is second in franchise history in points and both FG made and attempted
Has been named the NBA Player of the Week 15 times and NBA Player of the Month 4 times
The only male basketball player in U.S. history to appear in three different Olympic Games: was the leading scorer on the 1996 Team which captured gold in Atlanta, was a member of the 1992 Team that won the gold in Barcelona and the 1988 Team that won the bronze in Seoul
Is the United States' all-time leader in Olympic history in career points (270), rebounds (124) and blocked shots (34)
Played on the 1987 Pan American Team and the 1986 USA World Championship Team
2 NBA Championship Rings.


Rasho Nesterovic's Career Highlights

Played for the Minnesota Timberwolves
Played for the San Antonio Spurs
Puts shoes on correct foot.

[T Park]

Get a life moron.

[SequSpur]

I am trying to make a point here tpark. Is the bearded lady not home tonight?

[T Park]

Do I talk about your wife like that?

No I dont.

BTW, you making fun of my profession, even though I have nothing to do with a freak show, or a ferris wheel, or whatever or about people in freak shows,

when you could easily be in it, is kind of ironic, isnt it?

I like generalizations about people. Thanks Sequ, btw, go to the GTG, have fun.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Is the bearded lady not home tonight?

Nice.

[ducks]

rasho has improved alot from last year

[Solid D]

But, I will say this, the Center position is obsolete on most teams, therefore having someone like him on the team is not a necessity.

After all the hints we've been giving you on how to "watch" a game of basketball, you come out and say something like this.

What's the matter with you?

One of the main reasons teams are shooting 40% on the Spurs this year, closer to 35% the last 6 or 7 games, is because Rasho is altering shots. He played Rasheed extremely well last night and he really bothered his shots, especially during the 3rd quarter dry spell.

I wish he'd dunk, so he deserves punishment for not dunking more, but he really changes things defensively when he's roaming the paint.

Tim plays the Center position frequently, Sequ. The 4 and 5 is pretty much the same in the Spurs offense, so have you forgotten everything you've learned Bubba? What's the matter with you?

[SequSpur]

Things are going so well for the Spurs that I have to nitpick here a little.

I don't get this dude.

I can't tell if I am a Rasho supporter or if I've given up on this dude.

If he did anything last playoffs, we might've gotten a third title.

Not to put the blame on him.

But this season, he looks worse than last year.

I kind of wonder what the front office was thinking when they figured they would replace the gentle giant, David Robinson, with Rasho, who looks like a oversized, scared little boy who spent time suffering in a third world country.

Rasho, you are 7 feet tall.

The Spurs are paying you good money.

We're not asking for a world beater, here.

Just act like you care, for krissakes.

Read the topic. We are talking about Rasho, The Enigma.

[T Park]

David didnt dunk enough, but didnt get half the flack Rasho gets for it.


Once again, after 03 was over, the first thing the SPurs said, was we want a center replacement to give what David gave in 03, not a 95 David.

[IcemanCometh]

tparks in love with rasho

[T Park]

sigh.

See what I mean??

It never fuckin ends with people like Aggie and Ice.


It just gets fuckin old.

[Solid D]

Remember the exciting 360 degree move TP made off the fast break that caused such an excitement within you earlier?

That break was made possible when Rasho pushed Ben Wallace off the block, left him on helpside baseline and then his 7 foot length altered Hunter's layup into a muff with Rasho rebounding and getting it to TP to create the 360 highlight.

The Center is not dead. Long live the Pivot.

[Solid D]

When Parker or Manu drive the lane, Rasho and Tim back people out of there to clear the way for the penetrator. Watch the nuances of the game. Things that don't always show up on the stat sheets, folks.

[SequSpur]

Why does Rasho start and not play in the 4th?

Tick tock tick tock tick tock....................

[Solid D]

Why does Rasho start and not play in the 4th?

Tick tock tick tock tick tock....................

Rasho plays in the 4th. Rephrase.

[T Park]

matchups???

Teams that are smaller hanging around in the 4th, or the game being a blowout and him not needing to be out there??

[SequSpur]

In a blowout, Rasho gets alot of playing time.

[T Park]

he averages 27 a game.

He barely played against Philly Dallas Denver and others.

Your running out brother.

[Solid D]

That's just silly chain pulling travashamockery.

When Rasheed is taking a three in the corner with 4 or 5 min. left in the game, Rasho's out there contesting the three and making him miss. Watch the games.

[SequSpur]

Dude, Malik was guarding him in the 4th. Wasn't he?

[T Park]

travashamockery.

No making up words!! lol.....

[Solid D]

Dude, Malik was guarding him in the 4th. Wasn't he?

Only part of the time.

[Solid D]

Game time. I've got to go "Watch" the next game (Bucks/Spurs) now.

[T Park]

Yeah, learn somethin would ya SD

lmao.

Easily one of my favorite posters here.

[SequSpur]

3rd Qtr

(1:04) [SAN] Nesterovic Substitution replaced by Massenburg

4th Qtr

(5:04) [SAN] Rose Substitution replaced by Nesterovic

(2:36) [SAN] Nesterovic Substitution replaced by Rose

Dude played 2 min 28 sec in the fourth yesterday.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

"one ignorant dude"

Every country's full of them. The USA even has one ignorant dude for President :)


and for congress, the supreme court, the federal courts.....

[Solid D]

Nice game tonight for Rasho and Malik. They gave Tim a huge rest in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Tim actually had to go back in to try and get his double-double and give Rasho and Malik some much needed rest. :)

When Horry and Tim were in there together, Michael Redd and a friends got into the paint and scored. When Tim and Rasho or Rasho and Malik were in there, the scoring in the lane was pretty tough to come by for the Bucks. That just fed the fast break and when Beno, Devin and Gino are running the floor...Wow!

[T Park]

I felt bad for Rasho,

he couldve easily had about 13 rebounds.

Alot bounced away, off his hands, and just over his reach, or DUncan or Rose, or Ginobili or someone else took it away that was a teammate.


When he does bust his ass like tonight, and the stats dont show it, you feel bad for the guy.

But at least he was in good spirits on the bench

(looks over at Duncan)

Duncan: WHAT!!

hehe

[ChumpDumper]

To be fair tonight:
S. Dalembert DNP - Coach's DecisionFrom what I've seen he's this year's last year's Malik Rose. Contract year grandstanding or general stupidity?

Good games by Malik and Rasho tonight.

Someone needs to ask Horry what's wrong with his back.

[Solid D]

Good games by Malik and Rasho tonight.

Someone needs to ask Horry what's wrong with his back.

I think we've been on it too much lately, perhaps. :hat

[Solid D]

Proof positive that Rasho does not grow moss under his arms.

http://www.spursinfo.com/photos/spurs/041204/041204_1.jpg

[GoSpurs21]

If you just go by numbers, Ghost has a point. Rasho's stats aren't too impressive.

Rasho is averaging less points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks ... and is shooting a worse percentage from the field and the line.stats only win games in the fantasy league. Rasho does a lot of the dirty work (that most arent willing to do) that doesnt show up in the box score but helps the team to win.

When is everyone gonna learn, Rasho is not gonna be that dunk it in your face type of player. he hasnt been that for his whole career why would he ever change. What I do like is that Rasho is not affraid to dish out the punishment on the defensive end. He is willing to foul hard. He is willing to go after the blocks. He is willing to go after rebounds.

So Rasho doesnt (so called) bring it on the O, he definitely brings it on the D

[ChumpDumper]

If you just go by individual numbers, you'd think Barry is useless, Parker has regressed over the past three years and couldn't explain the Spurs current record, too.

[T Park]

David was never a dunk it your face type either.

Yet he never got the shit for it that Rasho does.

Why the double standards?

[GoSpurs21]

David was never a dunk it your face type either.

Yet he never got the shit for it that Rasho does.

Why the double standards?You obviously never saw David play. He would dunk at any chance he could and when he was younger he dunked on everybodys face. As for being (so called) soft by the fucking so called experts, they treated him like they treat Rasho now. David said in a interview in 93 (about being soft), "nobody has called me that to my face at least not the ones who had to play against me. I'd like to see them try, I'll show them what I can do." (I've got the video tape to prove it)

the only ones I hear call David and Rasho soft are the ones that dont have to lace it up against them. its easy to act like you know what you are talking about when you dont have to back up your words with YOUR OWN actions, you fucking pussy blow hards (this part is directed at reporters like SAS and Rasho haters)

people forget that David didnt become "soft" until he became religious
David just didnt have the drive that some other players have and some writers and fans still continue to hold that against him, jealousy I guess

[Chump]

You obviously never saw David play. He would dunk at any chance he could and when he was younger he dunked on everybodys face. As for being (so called) soft by the fucking so called experts, they treated him like they treat Rasho now. David said in a interview in 93 (about being soft), "nobody has called me that to my face at least not the ones who had to play against me. I'd like to see them try, I'll show them what I can do." (I've got the video tape to prove it)

the only ones I hear call David and Rasho soft are the ones that dont have to lace it up against them. its easy to act like you know what you are talking about when you dont have to back up your words with YOUR OWN actions, you fucking pussy blow hards

people forget that David didnt become "soft" until he became religious
David just didnt have the drive that some other players have and some writers and fans still continue to hold that against him, jealousy I guess


My thoughts exactly! Minus the swearing of course :angel

[Brodels]

the only ones I hear call David and Rasho soft are the ones that dont have to lace it up against them.

So I shouldn't observe that Rasho's offensive game is soft because I'm not a professional basketball player? Basketball players rarely call out other basketball players. It doesn't mean that they don't think that Rasho is soft on the offensive end.

And just because I don't play the game doesn't mean that I can't do an excellent job of observing and commenting.

I watch a lot of basketball. And Rasho is soft on the offensive end.


its easy to act like you know what you are talking about when you dont have to back up your words with YOUR OWN actions,

So what do you want me to do? Believe me, if an NBA team would sign me to a contract I would do it. Until then, I'll let my opinions be known even though I'm not an NBA player. It would be a pretty boring friggin' world if the only people allowed to comment on a certain thing were the people that actually did that thing.


you fucking pussy blow hards

:) Calm down. It's just a message board.

[T Park]

of course Brodels,

your an expert.

Im sure you could dunk on those guys unlke that stiff Nesterovic right.


Expert commentary lol.

[Brodels]

of course Brodels,

your an expert.

Im sure you could dunk on those guys unlke that stiff Nesterovic right.


Expert commentary lol.

Yes I could dunk those guys if I was as tall as him, weighed as much, and had his athleticism.

I'll ask again: what does my inability to play in the NBA have to do with my ability to watch the game and comment?

By your logic, Chuck Daly knew nothing about professional basketball because he never played in the league.

And Pop can't dunk on anyone either. Why are you hating on Pop? He doesn't know basketball?

Refute this: Rasho is soft offensively. He fails to convert sometimes when a dunk would have gotten the job done. He often goes to a finesse move when a power move would almost certainly lead to a basket. He fails to dunk when he should and uses finesse moves in the wrong situations more than any other center. That makes him softer offensively.

At least you know why I think what I do. Let's hear why you think he's not soft offensively.

Oh, I forgot. You can't have an opinion because you can't dunk on Rasho, either. In that case, Kori, Marc Stein, and Kenny Smith (he probably couldn't dunk on Rasho now, either) should stop commenting on basketball until they get more ups.

[GoSpurs21]

So I shouldn't observe that Rasho's offensive game is soft because I'm not a professional basketball player? Basketball players rarely call out other basketball players. It doesn't mean that they don't think that Rasho is soft on the offensive end.

And just because I don't play the game doesn't mean that I can't do an excellent job of observing and commenting.

I watch a lot of basketball. And Rasho is soft on the offensive end.
You can observe it all you want but your opinions and comments about being soft only means something to people who think like you. To the rest of us it is meaningless drival, hater.

Its funny how many people will blindly support the president and all his actions and policies, but when it comes to certain players on your so called favorite team, you act so rightous. I guess its easy since the sheep are conditioned this way.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

David was never a dunk it your face type either.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat? Tpark, quit while you're behind. Way behind.

Brodels,


of course Brodels,

your an expert.

Im sure you could dunk on those guys unlke that stiff Nesterovic right.


Expert commentary lol.

You've got to realize, when Tpark is getting his ass handed to him in an argument, he pulls out the "question their expertise based on experience" card.

In this instance, he challenges you to dunk like an NBAer. Similarly, when anyone criticizes Pop's coaching, they are asked how many games they have coached at the pro level, and how many NBA rings they have.

It is the penultimate straw man argument from TPark, and if it really applied or was pertinent to the discussion, there wouldn't be any reason to have this forum.

Tpark, come on man. No one here has played in the league. No one has coached there. That doesn't mean we can't comment on shit. This is a fan site, intended for fan commentary and discussion.

If we all had to have NBA level experience to discuss things, there would be no message board here.

Here's a challenge for you - actually bring a basketball take to things on this site, instead of your stupid ass "how many NBA games have you played/coached in" bullshit.

[Brodels]

You can observe it all you want but your opinions and comments about being soft only means something to people who think like you. To the rest of us it is meaningless drival, hater.

It basically comes down to this: because I disagree with you, my opinions are worthless. At least admit that this is what it's all about.

Obviously, those "soft" comments mean a ton to you or you wouldn't be taking the time to refute them. If they were indeed nothing but 'meaningless drivel,' you wouldn't take the time to discuss them. So my comments actually mean something to more than just the people who think like me. They mean something to you, whether you like it or not.

It seems as though you feel that those who don't play the game have no business commenting on it. I mean, if it's 'meaningless drivel' when I say that Rasho is soft, isn't it the same when you say he's not soft?

Answer me this: am I Ben Wallace hater if I say that he's a poor three-point shooter? Am I a Shaq hater if I observe that he's a poor free-throw shooter? Am I a Tamar Slay hater if I say that he's not as good as Kobe Bryant?

The fact is, people that don't play the game make intelligent comments about the game every day. Reporters do it. Coaches do it. People on this forum do it. Just because you choose not to observe weaknesses in Rasho's game doesn't mean that those who do are haters. In fact, I like Rasho's game. But that doesn't change the fact that I'm objective enough to see that he's soft on the offensive end.

And furthermore, you haven't exactly explained why he's not soft on the offensive end. All you've done is bust out the 'haters' card.


Its funny how many people will blindly support the president and all his actions and policies, but when it comes to certain players on your so called favorite team, you act so rightous. I guess its easy since the sheep are conditioned this way.

I don't blindly support the president. In fact, I don't really support the president at all. I didn't vote for him, and I'm very willing to speak out against him on many issues. What does this have to do with Rasho?

I observe what I think is wrong with the president's policies and comment on that. I observe the weaknesses in Rasho's game and comment on those. And that's how new ideas and opinions spread. That's how the world works, and it's how businesses and nations flourish every day.

So while you're busy spouting that anyone who dares to identify weaknesses in a player is a hater, I'm willing to at least take an objective look, search for reality where I can find it, and listen to others' opinions. Here's a hint: those things would benefit you, too.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Please for goodness sakes!

All you id*@#s out there who want Rasho to be some highlight grabbing dunk machine should go suck a lemon.

That's the problem with the NBA nowadays. Dont you guys ever learn? Yeah it looks great seeing a dunk or 2 but this aint NBA 2004 in playstation where you practically dunk on every single trip up the floor.

It's also why Team USA thought they could dunk on everyone and forgot how to shoot the damn ball.

Whatever happened to appreciating Rasho's hook? Or soft touch around the basket and not see it as being a soft player?

I personally think Rasho is not soft. He can mix with the best of them. Please go watch games and maybe play the game. You dont have to go bashing everyone to the floor to be tough. Divac flops a lot and do you think he or Rasho is softer? So quit picking on Rasho.

Rasho will never get DRob's numbers when DRob was an all-star. Why? Because we have 2 other potential all-stars on the team T-park and Manu. Look at the Lakers last year. With 4 all-stars on the team, ALL their numbers suffered.

Rasho doesnt need to light it up everynight on the stat sheet. He doesnt have to but he has proven that he can when Timmy was out of action last year.

For me, he is doing a fine job just changing shots playing D blocking shots and giving the opposition something significant to factor in.

So all you supposedly super analysts or pros waiting in the wings should really go re-evaluate yourselves.

[Spurminator]

Rasho is a talented big man who is more valuable than many centers who are paid twice what he makes. But I don't see how anyone can argue that he's not soft on offense. He avoids any sort of contact in the paint like the plague. He holds onto the ball like a big, round, wet bar of soap.

Now I'd certainly rather have a soft big man with Rasho's talent starting at center for my team than a much less talented banger, but that doesn't cloud my perception of his aggressiveness.

[ChumpDumper]

Rasho's lack of dunking doesn't stem from softness, it stems from slowness. Rasho is slow and he knows it. He overcompenates by never bringing the ball down on a rebound and getting his shot up in the quickest manner available to him, which is obviously not dunking. Sure he should dunk more, but this is one of the bigger molehill mountains Spurfans can't seem to put into any real perspective.

[Brodels]

All you id*@#s out there who want Rasho to be some highlight grabbing dunk machine should go suck a lemon.

I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for him to dunk when he should and use power moves when the situation calls for it, that's all. There is a big difference between that and asking Rasho to become a 'highlight grabbing dunk machine.'


That's the problem with the NBA nowadays. Dont you guys ever learn? Yeah it looks great seeing a dunk or 2 but this aint NBA 2004 in playstation where you practically dunk on every single trip up the floor.

I don't disagree.


It's also why Team USA thought they could dunk on everyone and forgot how to shoot the damn ball.

Team USA's problems were deeper than that. And it wasn't that they forgot how to shoot the ball, it's just that they didn't have any really good perimeter shooters on the team to shoot the ball.


Whatever happened to appreciating Rasho's hook? Or soft touch around the basket and not see it as being a soft player?

I do appreciate those things. And I want him to continue to use them. All I'm asking is that he become more aggressive when the situation calls for it. Finish strong instead of floating up a brick. Use a power move instead of taking a turnaround jumper from fifteen feet once in a while.

It would make him a more complete player.


I personally think Rasho is not soft.

I personally disagree, at least on the offensive end. I don't think he's been soft defensively, and I'm not arguing that.


He can mix with the best of them.

On defense, he can mix with most of them.


Please go watch games and maybe play the game.

I do both of those things often.


You dont have to go bashing everyone to the floor to be tough.

I'm not bashing anyone. I'm recognizing a weakness in Rasho's game and stating that he'd be a better player and the Spurs would be better off if his weakness turned into a strength. I'm not expecting it to happen. I'm just observing.


Divac flops a lot and do you think he or Rasho is softer? So quit picking on Rasho.

Personally, at this point in his career, I think that Vlade just isn't very good any more. He certainly isn't very mobile.


Rasho will never get DRob's numbers when DRob was an all-star. Why? Because we have 2 other potential all-stars on the team T-park and Manu.

Wrong. Rasho will never get Drob's numbers when DRob was an all-star because Rasho isn't nearly as good as David was in his prime. If you think that Rasho would get those numbers without TP and Manu on the team you're simply on crack. Tim Duncan can't even get David Robinson's numbers.


Look at the Lakers last year. With 4 all-stars on the team, ALL their numbers suffered.

I personally haven't cited one stat. I'm not looking at stats at all. I'm looking at what Rasho does when he's around the basket. His true contributions are difficult to measure with statistics, and I understand that.


For me, he is doing a fine job just changing shots playing D blocking shots and giving the opposition something significant to factor in.

I think he's doing a fine job, too. Citing a weakness in his game doesn't mean that I think he's doing poorly. I'm quite happy with his play this season.


So all you supposedly super analysts or pros waiting in the wings should really go re-evaluate yourselves.

I haven't seen anyone identify themselves as a 'super analyst' or 'pro,' but I'll assume you're referring to me. And if that's the case, here's my question: what should I be re-evaluating about myself, and why does that need to occur? If you really think I should re-evaluate myself because I have an opinion on a basketball forum that happens to be relatively widespread and accepted by many NBA fans, I simply see things differently than you do.

[Brodels]

Rasho is a talented big man who is more valuable than many centers who are paid twice what he makes. But I don't see how anyone can argue that he's not soft on offense. He avoids any sort of contact in the paint like the plague. He holds onto the ball like a big, round, wet bar of soap.

Now I'd certainly rather have a soft big man with Rasho's talent starting at center for my team than a much less talented banger, but that doesn't cloud my perception of his aggressiveness.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Brodels]

Rasho's lack of dunking doesn't stem from softness, it stems from slowness. Rasho is slow and he knows it. He overcompenates by never bringing the ball down on a rebound and getting his shot up in the quickest manner available to him, which is obviously not dunking. Sure he should dunk more, but this is one of the bigger molehill mountains Spurfans can't seem to put into any real perspective.

I respectfully disagree. While I think that his slowness has something to do with it, I just think he doesn't finish aggressively or make aggressive moves even when they are available. That's why he doesn't get to the line.

I'm not anti-Rasho, but many of his 'soft' moments that I've witnessed have less to do with his slowness and more to do with his lack of aggressiveness.

[GoSpurs21]

It basically comes down to this: because I disagree with you, my opinions are worthless. At least admit that this is what it's all about.

And furthermore, you haven't exactly explained why he's not soft on the offensive end. All you've done is bust out the 'haters' card.
I do admit that Rasho should be more agressive on O, but i will not resort to calling him soft

I just disagree with calling any current Spurs soft. Pop can do it but your opinions about anyone being on the Spurs being soft will be ignored by me. Do you really think Pop would have players that are always soft on his team? I agree that all Spurs players need to work on the weaknesses, but I hate that people are quick to critize Rasho, but will not say anything negative about Tim.

I just dont like the hypocrisy when discussing Spurs players. I guess I am just more sensitive about people who are quick to lables on others because they sense weakness.

I guess that makes me a homer...so be it. i just prefer to focus on the positive rather dwell on the negative

I'm glad that you are not one of the sheep in this country

[Brodels]

I do admit that Rasho should be more agressive on O, but i will not resort to calling him soft

What's the difference between calling him unaggressive on offense and soft on offense? It's all a matter of sematics and nothing more. Saying he's soft acknowledges that he has a weakness. Certainly you're not above admitting that some players have weaknesses.


I just disagree with calling any current Spurs soft. Pop can do it

Even if they are? I mean, do you go hide in the closet when there is a thunderstorm?


but your opinions about anyone being on the Spurs being soft will be ignored by me.

I think you've paid more attention to me in this thread than you have to anyone else, so you're incorrect. Obviously my opnions are not ignored by you. They must really mean something to you if you are taking the time to respond so passionately.


Do you really think Pop would have players that are always soft on his team?

Sure, I think Pop will have players that are offensively soft around the basket if they bring it in other areas. And let's get this straight: before you make up what I'm saying further, let it be known that I never claimed that Rasho was 'always soft.' I said he is soft on offense.


I agree that all Spurs players need to work on the weaknesses,

Yet you think it's a crime to actually identify those weaknesses. It's a fan board. We talk about players' weaknesses, even if we aren't experts.


but I hate that people are quick to critize Rasho, but will not say anything negative about Tim.

I say negative things about Tim, too. I call out any Spurs player if he isn't doing what he needs to be doing. I've started threads in the past month about Duncan's offensive indecision.


I just dont like the hypocrisy when discussing Spurs players. I guess I am just more sensitive about people who are quick to lables on others because they sense weakness.

It's not a matter of sensing weakness. It's a matter of identifying weaknesses. It's a matter of not being afraid to admit that all Spurs players aren't perfect. And it's a matter of calling it like it is.


I guess that makes me a homer...so be it

I don't care if you're a homer. TPark is a homer, too, and I engage in good discussions with him. And he doesn't even bust out the namecalling very much anymore. My hope is that you'll avoid calling people out because they are willing to try and look at things objectively and that they realize that not all Spurs players are perfect.


I'm glad that you are not one of the sheep in this country

I'm far from a sheep. Politically, I don't support either major party. In other areas, I often go against the grain. I'm glad that you're glad.

[Medvedenko]

85 posts for this mess....Mihm>Rasho...that's as sad as it gets. Still your spurs are playing phenominal ball with a Scrub center....

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Let's put it this way, if Rasho was a good FT shooter, then by all means go strong and get the foul.

However, he is a H_P_L_SS FT shooter and should not try and draw the foul hence his preference to go for the 'soft' approach and use a little hook or lay up. I think Pop is happier this way too. Opposing players aint going to foul you or give up contact when you dont go into them and be aggressive to draw the foul.

This is what I would call working to your advantage. If Rasho were to be aggressive and take it to the hole, then there will be another 7 footers missed FTs that we would be complaining about.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He avoids any sort of contact in the paint like the plague.

Let's be honest here, Rasho's role on the offensive end of the court consists of:

1) staying out of Duncan's low post space
2) staying out of the cutting lanes of the wings
3) staying out at the FT line
4) getting back on D the moment a shot goes up

How aggressive do you think he's actually going to be in the lane, on the off chance he ever is there?

[T Park]

also,

he was brought in on offense for his JUMP SHOT

NOT his low post game.

If they wanted a low post scorer, they wouldve gone after Tazer boy.

Once again, thank god they didndt.

[Spurminator]

It's not so much his play as a scoring option... it's mainly the instances when he'll grab an offensive rebound and then either fade away on a put back or turn immediately and try to get rid of it. I just want to see him at least LOOK at the basket to see if he has space to go up strong and finish... Whether or not it's a dunk, just go strong.

But like I said, this isn't a criticism of his all-around game, or a regret that he's playing center for us, it's simply an observation on one facet of his game. I think some of you are taking it as more of a degradation of Rasho as a player than it's meant to be.

[T Park]

Rasho is also a little smarter player than he gets credit for.

If he looks like he doesnt want to go straight back up, he prob thinks its low percentage and just reset the offense.

More than likely, thats Pop and the coaching staff have instilled in him, Rebound reset the O.

[Brodels]

It's not so much his play as a scoring option... it's mainly the instances when he'll grab an offensive rebound and then either fade away on a put back or turn immediately and try to get rid of it. I just want to see him at least LOOK at the basket to see if he has space to go up strong and finish... Whether or not it's a dunk, just go strong.

But like I said, this isn't a criticism of his all-around game, or a regret that he's playing center for us, it's simply an observation on one facet of his game. I think some of you are taking it as more of a degradation of Rasho as a player than it's meant to be.

Somebody gets it.

[kginsa]

Dalamar,
Great Analysis......You only speak the truth and have said everything I have been thinking throughout this whole "Rasho The Enigma" thread. He is not DRob or TDuncan...He was hired to be a servicable center and he has become just that... his game has improved immensely since last season....I can only see this guy getting better...move on Rasho bashers !!!! I guess many people would have preferred to hire Olowakandi...who was also available at the time of Rasho's signing.....Boy, he is working out great in Minnesota :pctoss

[Ghost Writer]

Chump, I'd rather Dalembert at his current salary than Rasho.

I told you why Dalembert fell out of favor.

Stop taking tidbits out of context and pretending to have a point about something that was already explained to you.

Virtually all of Rasho's numbers are DOWN this year. His defense has not been much better, either.

Shouldn't Rasho be better in his second year with the Spurs?



P.S.

And Eric Williams > Bruce Bowen

[Solid D]

And Eric Williams > Bruce Bowen

:rollin

[Ghost Writer]

Um, he is.

And Rasho should do better than he did last year.

We excused him last year.

Now it's time to show us something.

We replaced a so-called soft center that was great with a so-called soft center who is not very good.

[pjjrfan]

85 posts for this mess....Mihm>Rasho...that's as sad as it gets. Still your spurs are playing phenominal ball with a Scrub center....
Mihm disappears every other game, defensively Rasho is part of the system and is there every night. On offense, well, what can I say, he is what he is. I guess we could lock him up with an Oakley and leave him there for a week or two, but he might not survive. He does some good things but his weak putbacks that don't even hit the rim dang, they just tear at me, if I had had that size, oh well. I quit bitching at him last year because defensively he is big, he moves to his spots, he rotates to the open man, he knows the defense and does his job. On occasion his slow feet get him in trouble but the guy is always looking for his spot to help out on defense. Yeah I would like him to be more aggressive especially in rebounding, where he sometimes lets himself get pushed out. But what the hell. As long as Pop is happy with him it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. And right now Pop is happy with him.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

at some point i think Rasho will be on the bench watching Tim start at center and Luis Scola start at PF

[SequSpur]

Rasho sucks.

[Solid D]

Eric Williams>Bruce Bowen


:rollin


Um, he is.

Oh, well then if that's the case you've really convinced me there GhostbecauseisaidsoWriter. :lol

[Solid D]

Eric Williams can be a solid contributor and score double digits, rebound some, play a little D, depending on his role. Statistically EW offensively has produced higher numbers than Bowen. Stats alone do not make one > than a best-in-class role-player/defender/stopper.

Bruce has won numerous All NBA defensive awards, including 1st Team last year.

Eric participated in the Schick Rookie Game.

[ChumpDumper]

Chump, I'd rather Dalembert at his current salary than Rasho.I'd rather have any decent player on their rookie salary -- if you actually have a point there let us in on it.
I told you why Dalembert fell out of favor.Actually, you didn't go into any detail. Can you tell us why he gets DNP-CDs while Josh Davis gets all his minutes?
Stop taking tidbits out of context and pretending to have a point about something that was already explained to you.Stop acting like every player is available at any time. You can't decern the NBA from your fantasy league and it shows in every one of your takes.
Virtually all of Rasho's numbers are DOWN this year. His defense has not been much better, either. Since you haven['t watched all the games, consider yourself ignorant of his overall D, which is better. As for the other numbers -- all of Parker's numbers are down (2nd year in a row, BTW), all of Barry's numbers are down. Where are their "enigma" posts from you? Which rookie do you now want instead of them?
Shouldn't Rasho be better in his second year with the Spurs?His D is better; his other nubmers are close enough that they'll most likely be the same by year's end.
P.S.

And Eric Williams > Bruce BowenP.S.

B.S.

Saying it a billion times doesn't make it true. The next time Eric shuts down a PG, SG and SF in the same game will be the first time.

He really makes the Nets a winner, doesn't he?

I am sick and tired of idiots who can only see what players are not instead of what they are.

[T Park]

How many All defensive team awards does Erick Williams have??


salute


Good talk pasty.

[T Park]

Rasho sucks

name one you can get better??


(foolishly waits for answer)

[Brodels]

Mihm>Rasho

:) For all of Rasho's weaknesses, he isn't a stiff.


This is what I would call working to your advantage. If Rasho were to be aggressive and take it to the hole, then there will be another 7 footers missed FTs that we would be complaining about.

Or he'd actually get some easy baskets. He sometimes takes easy baskets and makes them hard. He's not shooting 44% because he's a poor jump shooter. 44% isn't very good for a center, and his shooting percentage is that low simply because he doesn't finish at the rim very well. His lack of aggression turns easy baskets into misses sometimes.


If they wanted a low post scorer, they wouldve gone after Tazer boy.

Once again, thank god they didndt.

Nobody's asking him to be a great low post scorer. He just needs to finish the opportunities that come his way.


his game has improved immensely since last season....

Well, I'm generally happy with is contributions and I'm glad he's a Spur, but that's a stretch. Exactly how has he improved immensely? I think he's essentially the same player he was last season.


I can only see this guy getting better...

What you see now is basically what you're going to get for the next few seasons.


move on Rasho bashers !!!!

I'm not bashing. I'm pointing out a weakness.


I guess many people would have preferred to hire Olowakandi...who was also available at the time of Rasho's signing.....Boy, he is working out great in Minnesota[/quote

I don't think anyone is advocating that.

[quote]Shouldn't Rasho be better in his second year with the Spurs?

For better or for worse, Rasho is the same player that he was last season. I know you judge most of your opinions on numbers, but they really don't tell the whole story.


And Eric Williams > Bruce Bowen

:) Simply false. Eric Williams is a scrub. Bruce Bowen is a poor offensive player with top defensive skills.


And Rasho should do better than he did last year.

As much as you would like to have all-stars at every position, it just isn't going to happen. The Rasho you see now is the Rasho you're going to see in two years. He is what he is. And he's very average. But he does a good job defensively and can hit an open jump shot. For what was available at the time, he wasn't a bad pickup.

He's average. Deal with it.


I told you why Dalembert fell out of favor.

He fell out of favor because he wasn't playing well.

[ChumpDumper]

For all of Rasho's weaknesses, he isn't a stiff.I'd say he technically is a stiff -- but pretty much the best stiff in the league. If Dalembert or Swift or any of those underachievers worked half as hard as Rasho, they'd be All-Stars. How long should we wait for these guys to put together a decent season and how much should they be paid while we're waiting for them to finally get it?

[Brodels]

I'd say he technically is a stiff -- but pretty much the best stiff in the league. If Dalembert or Swift or any of those underachievers worked half as hard as Rasho, they'd be All-Stars. How long should we wait for these guys to put together a decent season and how much should they be paid while we're waiting for them to finally get it?

I don't know. I guess it's all about how you define 'stiff.' Rasho actually has some talent and almost average mobility for a center. But if you want to call him the best stiff in the league, I guess that's about the same as me calling him a non-stiff and very average center.

I agree that there are several bigs with more raw athleticism and talent. Both Swift and Dalembert are good examples, and Tyson Chandler also comes to mind. They certainly haven't seized the opportunities presented to them, and they probably will never live up to their potential.

All things considered, Rasho is a decent fit. There are many better options out there, but he works well and doesn't cost a ton.

[milkyway21]

...let's just be thankful Rasho is injury-free. And the Spurs signed him instead of Kandi(0 pts against the Mavs tonight).

[Tek_XX]

We should all be resigned to the fact that Rasho will be Rasho, he's not an offensive or defensive juggernaut, he blocks some shots, effects others. He's a big white guy who feels up the paint and if he's hot he'll make his man pay for not guarding him on the outside. Other than that i have no misguided belief that he can give more than he's giving.

For some reason i'm thinking Rasho is playing better this year than last, even though some are saying his stats are down. Maybe he's not making petty little mistakes like he did at the beginning of last year.

And to the person who asked if the Spurs record would be better, same or worse without Rasho i say worse, 4 on 5 that would be 0-19

[T Park]

Once again.

Your not gonna find anyone better that IS available.

So the bitching about him pretty much should be reigned into his game to game play.


Rasho has been in a bit of a funk lately.

But his defensive play has been drastically improved over last year.

Whats funny, in Minnesota he was a 52% FG shooter, and a pretty good outside shot.
Here, his shot is off and just OK.

If he could shoot the 52% he did in Minny, he would be a 10 and 9 guy.

WIch, is what I thought he would be.

IMO, he should get more plays run for him, and let him get out of it.

Its hard to break out of it getting 9 shots one night, then another getting 2.

He should get 8 shots every game, if he makes half he gets 8 points little over hes in double figures.

Id rather him get those shots than an off balanced Brent Barry three pointer.

[ALVAREZ6]

wow for Rasho's height, he should dominate the boards and get more freakin blocks.

He's so freakin soft, he has no heart, de doesn't look like he wants to be a winner.

[Ghost Writer]

What did the front office think they were getting?

Rasho makes the rest of the Spurs look tough and intense.