Draft Prospect: Marcus Williams

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/marcus_e_williams.jpg

Full Name: Marcus Eliot Williams
Position: Forward
Height/Weight: 6-7 / 205
Birthdate: November 18, 1986 (Seattle)
High School: Roosevelt HS (Seattle)
College: Arizona

nbadraft.net profile (http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/marcuswilliamsaz.html)
nba.com profile (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/MarcusWilliams.html)
draftexpress.com profile (http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=546)

[Steve-O-Matic]

Marcus was on my flight to San Antonio on Monday. He was met upon arrival by two guys, one of whom was about Pop's age and was wearing a Spurs t-shirt. The other guy was much younger...about 30-ish. I didn't recognize either. But regardless, its confirmation that the Spurs have an interest in Williams.

[jdaveah]

This would be absolutely terrible. I just graduated from Arizona and watched every single game of his 2 year college career. Lute Olsen was thrilled to see him go. I don't know that I have ever seen a more selfish player. When Chase Budinger came in and was clearly the superior player this year, Williams checked out mentally. He has absolutely no interest in playing any defense whatsoever, definitely not a fit for the Spurs and I really hope it doesn't happen.

[ducks]

Bumb

[Admidave50]

can't believe we take someone we hardly talked about! LMAO

[Aud21946]

This would be absolutely terrible. I just graduated from Arizona and watched every single game of his 2 year college career. Lute Olsen was thrilled to see him go. I don't know that I have ever seen a more selfish player. When Chase Budinger came in and was clearly the superior player this year, Williams checked out mentally. He has absolutely no interest in playing any defense whatsoever, definitely not a fit for the Spurs and I really hope it doesn't happen.
Thanks for the insight .. :dramaquee

[SenorSpur]

This would be absolutely terrible. I just graduated from Arizona and watched every single game of his 2 year college career. Lute Olsen was thrilled to see him go. I don't know that I have ever seen a more selfish player. When Chase Budinger came in and was clearly the superior player this year, Williams checked out mentally. He has absolutely no interest in playing any defense whatsoever, definitely not a fit for the Spurs and I really hope it doesn't happen.

He certainly doesn't sound like Spurs material. Makes me wonder why the fuck Pop and R.C. "took a flyer on him."

[flame]

I hope they bring him in the front and quickly kick him out the back. Apparant attitude problems = I hope to god he doesn't stick around.

[mardigan]

I hope they bring him in the front and quickly kick him out the back. Apparant attitude problems = I hope to god he doesn't stick around.
Damn dude, give the guy a chance. Hes young, and the SPurs are a great team for him to learn how to be a pro from

[jdaveah]

This guy is the antithesis of everything the Spurs are. I really don't get it. My only hope is that he was someone else's pick. He has the body of the "long 3" we've been after for so long but there is absolutely positively nothing between his ears. I can't believe I have to keep rooting for this idiot.

[zekes]

From insider on Espn via Chad Ford:

Gifted small forward who excels in the midrange. If he buys into the Spurs' system and learns how to play defense, he could be a steal at this point in the draft.

[Budkin]

This would be absolutely terrible. I just graduated from Arizona and watched every single game of his 2 year college career. Lute Olsen was thrilled to see him go. I don't know that I have ever seen a more selfish player. When Chase Budinger came in and was clearly the superior player this year, Williams checked out mentally. He has absolutely no interest in playing any defense whatsoever, definitely not a fit for the Spurs and I really hope it doesn't happen.

:lmao

[SenorSpur]

I still wish the Jared Dudley would have fallen to the Spurs at this pick.

[timvp]

This would be absolutely terrible. I just graduated from Arizona and watched every single game of his 2 year college career. Lute Olsen was thrilled to see him go. I don't know that I have ever seen a more selfish player. When Chase Budinger came in and was clearly the superior player this year, Williams checked out mentally. He has absolutely no interest in playing any defense whatsoever, definitely not a fit for the Spurs and I really hope it doesn't happen.

Pop is that you?

[Punkkboy44]

Ummm...based on highlights i cannot see anything this guy has..wtf..and Splitter..shoots like 50% free throws..but almost 60% from the field..SPURS MATERIAL!!!

[Punkkboy44]

I give the Spurs a C- draft grade..maybe even a D+..Blazers get an A+..bought some picks..nice

[jdaveah]

I really thought when I graduated from Arizona and Marcus left early that I had washed my hands clean of him. So mad.

[Borosai]

Physically, he's the same as Bowen and White, minus Bruce's D and Whites dunking. Am I missing something?

[jdaveah]

Welcome to the Austin Toros, Marcus.

[Aud21946]

Hmmm .... So, I am hearing nothing good about this guy. Great

[itzsoweezee]

This would be absolutely terrible. I just graduated from Arizona and watched every single game of his 2 year college career. Lute Olsen was thrilled to see him go. I don't know that I have ever seen a more selfish player. When Chase Budinger came in and was clearly the superior player this year, Williams checked out mentally. He has absolutely no interest in playing any defense whatsoever, definitely not a fit for the Spurs and I really hope it doesn't happen.

awesome!

[jag]

what a strange pick this was.

[exstatic]

Ballah!!!

Actually, the consensus seems to be first round talent, unsigned free agent brain/attitude. He'll figure it out quickly, or his un-guaranteed ass will be out the door.

timvp called him high risk, high reward. For once in a blue moon, I disagree with him. I think he's low risk, high reward. He was a second round flier.

[ducks]

true no guarantee contract williams

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/marcus_e_williams.jpghttp://www.eurobasket.com/photos/Dial_Derrick.jpg

[Man In Black]

I like the pick. He regularly had to guard the Pac-10's best perimeter players for Lute so it's not like he doesn't have talent on that side of the ball. There were games in which both him and Chase Budinger did well together. As a Zona fan as well, it's not Williams game that I dislike, it's Ivan Radenovic's game that bothered me.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think I'm going to go with Spurs front office over some random internet poster :lol

[AFBlue]

He may have the body of a Bowen and White, but he's a much more fluid offensive player than both. He's also a solid rebounder for the position and has good handles.

He has the ABILITY to be a defensive specialist, but all indications are that his work ethic/attitude is suspect. Being a second round pick, thus guaranteed nothing, you might see this kid step up to the challenge...or you might see him go south.

I wonder what this means for White, as both players play similar positions and the roster is limited....

[Obstructed_View]

So he's too small to play the position we want. He doesnt' work hard, he turns the ball over, he can't shoot, he isn't a good athlete, and he doesn't play defense.

I'll reserve judgment for now, but it don't look shiny.

[AFBlue]

Here's a quote from DX, refuting the "bad work ethic" claim and explaining a little bit more about his strengths/weaknesses. Take it as you will....


Very often we come into these private workouts feeling one way about a player’s skills or attitude, only to find out that our initial impression was very much off base. In the case of Marcus Williams, it was quite refreshing to see the work ethic he’s showing here as a player who has had about as much negativity thrown his way as anyone since exiting early from the NCAA Tournament.

Williams worked out with Jared Dudley in what was probably the most intriguing session of our time in Vegas. He was a little streaky shooting with his feet set, particularly once he got out to NBA 3-point range, but looked exceptionally good in the mid-range area creating space for himself and pulling up off the dribble. Once he’s in motion his shot seems to gain consistency, likely because of the fact that he doesn’t have as much time to cock the ball to the side of his head the way he does on his set shots, which gives him a very inconsistent release point, and thus a higher (and unnecessary) degree of difficulty. He seems to have very good touch regardless, though, meaning he can get into a groove and knock down a bunch of shots in a row.

In the ball-handling and one on one competitive drills is where Williams’ skills really came out. He can create his own shot with ease thanks to his combination of crafty footwork, smooth ball-handling skills, changes of speeds and pro moves from the triple-threat position, being able to utilize multiple jabs and fakes to get his man off balance and either make his way to the rim or pull up from mid-range. He’s very long, but a bit frail and not freakishly explosive, relying heavily on his instincts and skill level to help him put the ball in the basket.

Off the court, Williams is a personable and well-spoken kid who seems to enjoy being around the NBA players here in Vegas. “That’s the biggest perk here by far, being around the pros. Players relate to players better and there is so much I can learn from a guy like Ryan Gomes.”

Once the workouts were over for the day, he was the only one to stay late and join Gomes in putting up shots from beyond the arc, and the next day he decided to come in at 8am, an hour before everyone else, to work on his shot even more.

Williams did not participate in the 5 on 5 (his agent does not want to risk an injury) and will not participate at the Orlando pre-draft camp, meaning it will be up to him at workouts to secure himself a spot in the first round. All in all, he looked considerably better than we thought he would. If he can correct his shooting mechanics to give himself a chance to develop into a solid NBA 3-point shooter, he has a very good chance to help someone out down the road. His size, length, versatility and scoring instincts at the 2-guard position aren’t something that you can find everyday in this draft.

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=546

[SilverPlayer]

If he can correct his shooting mechanics to give himself a chance to develop into a solid NBA 3-point shooter, he has a very good chance to help someone out down the road. His size, length, versatility and scoring instincts at the 2-guard position aren’t something that you can find everyday in this draft.

Sounds like Chip might be tailor made able to help with this guy.

[Dro210]

Can we make sure this thread doesn't get deleted for awhile???.... I wanna hold this over the head of, and laugh at all the people hating on Marcus right now when he's ballin in a couple years.... especially the ones saying he has "attitude problems"

This was one of the best picks in the draft, relative to who we got where we got him

[SequSpur]

This guy is bad ass.

[Bruno]

I wonder what this means for White, as both players play similar positions and the roster is limited....

I wonder that too.
Will Spurs trade one ? keep both ? cut oen before the start of the season ? Or do Spurs thinks White is a bust ?
I will be curious to see what will happen with White and Williams.

[Obstructed_View]

Can we make sure this thread doesn't get deleted for awhile???.... I wanna hold this over the head of, and laugh at all the people hating on Marcus right now when he's ballin in a couple years.... especially the ones saying he has "attitude problems"

This was one of the best picks in the draft, relative to who we got where we got him
Um, you need to google "Marcus Williams Attitude". Are you going to laugh at all those people? If the Spurs make this guy into a player, nobody's going to be unhappy about those reports being wrong, but they are still a concern, no?

[Dro210]

I hope we can hang on to both for alittle while.... They both have huge potential.

I'd hate to let one go, and watch the other one become a star... or both of them become stars, or even just solid, useful bench players.

Last year I wanted White.... took a roundabout way, but we got him
This year I wanted Marcus.... got 'em!

Now lets see how good of a GM I would have been for us

[Borosai]

You mess with White, you mess with me.

Do you feel lucky?

[Dro210]

Um, you need to google "Marcus Williams Attitude". Are you going to laugh at all those people? If the Spurs make this guy into a player, nobody's going to be unhappy about those reports being wrong, but they are still a concern, no?

Nah man..... I don't get my basketball knowledge and opinions from things I read online. I base it off what I see, and what I know of the game, and I'm usually right on-point because of it.

First off, I'm a huge Arizona basketball fan. You gotta understand Lute Olsen was the problem in this situation. Marcus didn't get the PT he wanted/should have gotten as a Freshman and he let Lute know about it, and then he was in the doghouse for that last year, and AGAIN didn't see the PT he should have (and Arizona basketball paid the price, believe me). See.... some people I guess see that as an attitude problem, not me. For 1, he was 18-19 years old, best player on his team, and not being treated that way "because he was young" (Larry Brown esque). Anybody who's young, always been the best player, and a real competitior would and should be frustrated with that. He coulda gone to another school and been a 4 year starter if he knew that was gonna be how it was. Now I love Lute Olsen, but I've been so pissed at him the last 2 years for what he's done to Marcus and the team.

I can't wait til he gets here, I think it'll be a fresh start for him. Pop and the staff are gonna do wonders in building him up as a player and mentally as a person. He's gonna be a stud for us down the line. He's a hard worker, and he is a great defender.... don't believe everything you read on here... please

We got a steal. Marcus wouldn't even of entered the draft yet, but he couldn't wait to get out of Arizona.

[FirebatMIV]

You mess with White, you mess with me.

Do you feel lucky?

Even assuming we bring back everyone not named Melvin Ely, we still have room on the roster right? I don't see why we can't keep both, especially since Ely was our 6th big.

[Kori Ellis]

It will be kind of cool to see Marcus Williams and James White in summer league I guess. I don't know if either one of them will make it past training camp, but they aren't bad options at the end of your bench.

[Darkwaters]

Even assuming we bring back everyone not named Melvin Ely, we still have room on the roster right? I don't see why we can't keep both, especially since Ely was our 6th big.

Ely was our 7th big.

Duncan/Oberto/Elson/Butler/Bonner/Horry/Ely

[Borosai]

It will be kind of cool to see Marcus Williams and James White in summer league I guess. I don't know if either one of them will make it past training camp, but they aren't bad options at the end of your bench.

Nobody puts James White! at the end of a bench. No.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Marcus Williams and James White will be on our roster next season. White will get more PT and show he's worth being full time backup to Manu while Williams owns the D-League. :nutkick:

[AFBlue]

It will be kind of cool to see Marcus Williams and James White in summer league I guess. I don't know if either one of them will make it past training camp, but they aren't bad options at the end of your bench.


Should be interesting....

I mean, I know they have a similar build...but it seems they have two different focuses and styles.

White is a defensive-oriented player with a high-flying slasher game, while Williams is a superb ball-handler that creates his own offense from the triple-threat position....

Having noted their differences...I still wonder whether both will make this team for the 07-08 season.

[Kori Ellis]

Should be interesting....

I mean, I know they have a similar build...but it seems they have two different focuses and styles.

White is a defensive-oriented player with a high-flying slasher game, while Williams is a superb ball-handler that creates his own offense from the triple-threat position....

Having noted their differences...I still wonder whether both will make this team for the 07-08 season.

Yeah, completely different focuses, that's why it will be interesting.

I don't think both would make the team unless they were simply amazing and the Spurs couldn't help but make room for them. Or maybe Barry+Beno get traded for a PG and that will open up another wingspot somehow.

[AFBlue]

Yeah, completely different focuses, that's why it will be interesting.

I don't think both would make the team unless they were simply amazing and the Spurs couldn't help but make room for them. Or maybe Barry+Beno get traded for a PG and that will open up another wingspot somehow.

So who do you put the early money on?

The guy with time on the roster/in the system...

Or, the guy with arguably more all-around talent....

[Borosai]

The roster spot is open at the moment.

Parker - ? - Beno
Manu - Finley - Barry
Bowen - White - Williams
Duncan - Bonner? - Horry
Oberto? - Elson - Butler

It all depends on who they move this summer.

[Kori Ellis]

The roster spot is open at the moment.

Parker - ? - Beno
Manu - Finley - Barry
Bowen - White - Williams
Duncan - Bonner? - Horry
Oberto? - Elson - Butler

It all depends on who they move this summer.

I think they are bringing Vaughn too.

[AFBlue]

The roster spot is open at the moment.

Parker - ? - Beno
Manu - Finley - Barry
Bowen - White - Williams
Duncan - Bonner? - Horry
Oberto? - Elson - Butler

It all depends on who they move this summer.

You should put question marks by Williams and White too....because neither of them have a guaranteed contract for next year at the moment.

[Dro210]

I've got both these guys making the team (especially if like Kori says, we trade Beno and Barry, then I'll almost guarantee they both make it).... James is just a freak of an athlete, and Marcus is a freak of a basketball player... both hard workers, both especially focused on improving their outside shooting, both long.... and regardless of what some under-educated people say... both play great defense, especially for their size (weight), both able to guard multiple positions because of their speed, length, and vertical.

[AFBlue]

As a side note, I'm amazed that Beno is still on this team after tonight. Not that I wish any sort of ill will on this guy, but for the Spurs not to even draft a PG to potentially take his place....well I dunno what it says.

BTW, I think that the Spurs would've drafted Gabe Pruitt at #33 if he hadn't been snatched up a pick earlier...anyone agree?

[FirebatMIV]

Yeah, completely different focuses, that's why it will be interesting.

I don't think both would make the team unless they were simply amazing and the Spurs couldn't help but make room for them. Or maybe Barry+Beno get traded for a PG and that will open up another wingspot somehow.

Is there a reason why we must have 7 bigs? I am just wondering if it's assured that Ely = another big.

[Dro210]

I think they are bringing Vaughn too.

Please, NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[timvp]

This was a guy who I openly wondered why he wasn't getting more consideration as a possible Spur. A lot of what I've seen and read about him fits close to what the Spurs need. I wish he were a couple inches taller, but as is he seems like a pretty good prospect.

He's only 21 and hasn't played that much basketball yet, so he has time to improve. When I watched him, I thought he was a very good ballhandler for his size. He made some pretty good passes and has some innate scoring ability.

He is another guy who I can trust that the Spurs have scouted well. The Spurs front office and other people close to the team (Sean Elliott, to name one) have contacts at Arizona, so they have a pretty good idea what Williams is about.

I'm not ecstatic about this pick but he seems to be an intriguing prospect. He's high risk/high reward in the sense that he could bust out real quick if his attitude is shaky, or he could develop nicely in the Spurs system. He still has the potential, he just needs the work ethic and the belief in him to be there.

[AFBlue]

I've got both these guys making the team (especially if like Kori says, we trade Beno and Barry, then I'll almost guarantee they both make it).... James is just a freak of an athlete, and Marcus is a freak of a basketball player... both hard workers, both especially focused on improving their outside shooting, both long.... and regardless of what some under-educated people say... both play great defense, especially for their size (weight), both able to guard multiple positions because of their speed, length, and vertical.

I guess both are Bowen/Barry size...and since that's who they would eventually replace, I suppose both could stick on this squad.

Still, you can't assume a Barry trade right off the bat, because trades in this league are harder than you think...plus Barry has more tenure and financial ties to this organization than either of these two...

[Kori Ellis]

Is there a reason why we must have 7 bigs? I am just wondering if it's assured that Ely = another big.

Yeah, six bigs is plenty.

Who knows if the Spurs will even carry 15 players next season too.

We just have to wait it out and see. But I like the group of prospects the Spurs have overall in the next couple years - Scola, Splitter, Mahinmi, Sanikidze, Williams ...

I just wish there was an athletic SF/PF combo and a PG in there.

[Borosai]

I guess there are plenty of question marks to go around, but the spots are there at the moment. FA may bring other surprises. Maybe the Spurs can trade Beno to the Raptors for the rights to Giorgos Printezis.

[FirebatMIV]

I'm pleasently surprised at his rebounding numbers, those are some pretty good board #s considering his lack of girth.

[AFBlue]

According to NBADraft.net....kid has a 7 foot or 7'1 wingspan.

So he may not have the bulk...but he's certainly a LONG small forward

[jdaveah]

First off, I'm a huge Arizona basketball fan. You gotta understand Lute Olsen was the problem in this situation. Marcus didn't get the PT he wanted/should have gotten as a Freshman and he let Lute know about it, and then he was in the doghouse for that last year, and AGAIN didn't see the PT he should have (and Arizona basketball paid the price, believe me). See.... some people I guess see that as an attitude problem, not me. For 1, he was 18-19 years old, best player on his team, and not being treated that way "because he was young" (Larry Brown esque). Anybody who's young, always been the best player, and a real competitior would and should be frustrated with that. He coulda gone to another school and been a 4 year starter if he knew that was gonna be how it was. Now I love Lute Olsen, but I've been so pissed at him the last 2 years for what he's done to Marcus and the team.

I can't wait til he gets here, I think it'll be a fresh start for him. Pop and the staff are gonna do wonders in building him up as a player and mentally as a person. He's gonna be a stud for us down the line. He's a hard worker, and he is a great defender.... don't believe everything you read on here... please

We got a steal. Marcus wouldn't even of entered the draft yet, but he couldn't wait to get out of Arizona.


Wait wait wait. Didn't get enough minutes? Arizona starters led the nation in average minutes per game for a long time this season, I'm not certain if we ended that way but for the majority of the season we were tops and Marcus had the most minutes out of that group. There are plenty of things to question about the decision making of Lute over the past 2 seasons, but the way Marcus was used is certainly not one of them. He bumped his work ethic during the workout and if that continues then fantastic, but don't count on it. And Marcus "let Lute know" about his lack of PT? He was playing behind Hassan Adams for the first part of his freshman year, eventually getting into the starting 5 when Chris Rodgers got kicked off the team. If any player came and "let Lute know" that he needed to be on the floor more, Lute would let them know that they need to seek a transfer.

I don't know what Arizona team you were watching the last 2 years that had great defender hard worker Marcus on it, but it wasn't the same team I've seen. Having watched every game he played for the U of A including every home game in person I don't know where you saw this.

Marcus has all the tools to do well in the NBA. I'm not saying its impossible. He needs to put on some weight and he would be the size of the long 3 we want. The problem is he has never cares to put the work in. Arizona had to consistently bring in Daniel Dillon (A complete liability on offense) because Marcus couldn't guard the other team's best player. Marcus alienated the entire Arizona squad with his attitude. The team hangs out together on campus, goes out together, take classes together, but not Marcus. If he can't coexist in a locker room of people with similar background as himself, how is he fitting in a locker room as diverse as ours, especially if the guys aren't going to respect his work ethic? He has all the ability in the world and I hope that if he realizes it it is in our uniform, but unless he changes dramatically it isn't going to happen.

[timvp]

What would really be nice is if Williams agrees to play overseas for one year a la Derrick Dial. If he does that, the Spurs should be able to keep both he and James White.

I don't think the Spurs should give up on James White at this point. White has more of the attributes to be the Bowen replacement than Williams does. Finding a way to keep both is optimal.

[AFBlue]

I'm pleasently surprised at his rebounding numbers, those are some pretty good board #s considering his lack of girth.

Again, 7' wingspan....

[Dro210]

I guess both are Bowen/Barry size...and since that's who they would eventually replace, I suppose both could stick on this squad.

Still, you can't assume a Barry trade right off the bat, because trades in this league are harder than you think...plus Barry has more tenure and financial ties to this organization than either of these two...

Yea, no doubt, I understand that.... and I'm not one that's against Barry and dying to trade him either. There's just rumors every year, so there's always the potential for it to happen.

Regardless, I'm happy to have both of these guys, even if they happen to both end up on the Toros next year. Around the same size, but they're both longer and more athletic than either Barry or Bowen, and that IS saying something.

Future looks bright for us.... we're not going anywhere anytime soon NBA!

[AFBlue]

I can see why the Spurs took this guy...

Despite the character concerns, he is a do-it-all player. He has a great mid-range game, moves well without the ball, slashes and can finish, plays excellent defense when motivated, handles the ball extremely well (can even play PG if necessary), has good court vision, excellent length, is a good rebounder for his size....there's certainly alot to like.

I understand the concerns about work ethic/character, as well as the lack of a three-point shot...but this kid could really pay off.

In comparison to White, Williams is the much more complete player despite being 4 years younger....

[Rynospursfan]

As a side note, I'm amazed that Beno is still on this team after tonight. Not that I wish any sort of ill will on this guy, but for the Spurs not to even draft a PG to potentially take his place....well I dunno what it says.

BTW, I think that the Spurs would've drafted Gabe Pruitt at #33 if he hadn't been snatched up a pick earlier...anyone agree?

I was hoping for Ramon Sessions, guess the Spurs didn't want him though.

[timvp]

I like this jdaveah vs Dro210 debate. It's good to get two differing opinions to better understand who the Spurs picked.

:tu

[Dro210]

Wait wait wait. Didn't get enough minutes? Arizona starters led the nation in average minutes per game for a long time this season, I'm not certain if we ended that way but for the majority of the season we were tops and Marcus had the most minutes out of that group. There are plenty of things to question about the decision making of Lute over the past 2 seasons, but the way Marcus was used is certainly not one of them. He bumped his work ethic during the workout and if that continues then fantastic, but don't count on it. And Marcus "let Lute know" about his lack of PT? He was playing behind Hassan Adams for the first part of his freshman year, eventually getting into the starting 5 when Chris Rodgers got kicked off the team. If any player came and "let Lute know" that he needed to be on the floor more, Lute would let them know that they need to seek a transfer.

I don't know what Arizona team you were watching the last 2 years that had great defender hard worker Marcus on it, but it wasn't the same team I've seen. Having watched every game he played for the U of A including every home game in person I don't know where you saw this.

Marcus has all the tools to do well in the NBA. I'm not saying its impossible. He needs to put on some weight and he would be the size of the long 3 we want. The problem is he has never cares to put the work in. Arizona had to consistently bring in Daniel Dillon (A complete liability on offense) because Marcus couldn't guard the other team's best player. Marcus alienated the entire Arizona squad with his attitude. The team hangs out together on campus, goes out together, take classes together, but not Marcus. If he can't coexist in a locker room of people with similar background as himself, how is he fitting in a locker room as diverse as ours, especially if the guys aren't going to respect his work ethic? He has all the ability in the world and I hope that if he realizes it it is in our uniform, but unless he changes dramatically it isn't going to happen.



Man, I'm not even gonna argue with you, you're mostly right.... but you missed my point....

Marcus did give up on that team.... but Marcus got shitted on by Olsen before hand. He should have never been coming off the bench that Freshman year. You find a spot for a guy like that. Olsen didn't even start him every game this year just to prove his point (like you said in bold... Lute don't fuck around). Marcus probably woulda been happy to transfer after this year, but why transfer when you can just enter the draft

and like I said... many would look at that as an attitude problem. I see it as him being young, butting heads with his old-fashioned coach, and it was over from that point on. You've gotta give people a chance to mature before you label 'em as a problem. He's got a fresh start now, let's see what he chooses to do.

There's some stuff I'm leaving out here, and I don't care enough to look it up for the sake of a petty disagreement, but Marcus and Lute didn't get along from day one...... but to be honest... I gave up on this team last year just like Marcus did, so I really didn't pay all that much attention past a certain point.

Budinger is the truth this upcoming season tho! All-American possibility

[Dro210]

I like this jdaveah vs Dro210 debate. It's good to get two differing opinions to better understand who the Spurs picked.

:tu


Ahhhh... my bad Timvp, I'm about done for the night man. I'm tired, but I'm real excited about getting Williams tho, so you can probably count on me sparking more debate about him in the near future. Especially since it seems alot of people either arn't happy with or arn't sold on the pick.

Good takes tho jdave... respectful opinions, and I give it up to you for bein an AZ bball fan and bein at/seein all the games (wish i had a better cable package :smokin )

[jdaveah]

Marcus did give up on that team.... but Marcus got shitted on by Olsen before hand. He should have never been coming off the bench that Freshman year. You find a spot for a guy like that. Olsen didn't even start him every game this year just to prove his point (like you said in bold... Lute don't fuck around). Marcus probably woulda been happy to transfer after this year, but why transfer when you can just enter the draft

and like I said... many would look at that as an attitude problem. I see it as him being young, butting heads with his old-fashioned coach, and it was over from that point on. You've gotta give people a chance to mature before you label 'em as a problem. He's got a fresh start now, let's see what he chooses to do.

There's some stuff I'm leaving out here, and I don't care enough to look it up for the sake of a petty disagreement, but Marcus and Lute didn't get along from day one...... but to be honest... I gave up on this team last year just like Marcus did, so I really didn't pay all that much attention past a certain point.

Budinger is the truth this upcoming season tho! All-American possibility


I don't think we disagree on the possible potential that Marcus has. Physically, there isn't any reason he can't be the "long 3" that we've been working on for quite some time now. What I see as one of my biggest concerns is something that even you said, he gave up on the team midway through the season. What happened if our guys gave up on the team when we were around the all star break? You just don't do that under any circumstances.

And the fact of the matter is he didn't butt heads with Lute from day 1. When he came and replaced Chris Rodgers in the starting 5, Lute repeatedly said that he could be the best freshman he has had since Sean Elliott, which to me is damn high praise. Somewhere between then and now something happened. And you can't say he should have been starting from the start. Budinger didnt start at first this season. Unless there is a supreme need, you don't start a freshman in a competitive Pac 10 until they had proven themselves. Are you suggesting he should have started ahead of seniors Hassan Adams and Chris Rodgers? That wouldn't work.


For everyone who hasn't been watching Marcus as much as Dro and I, I'll boil it down pretty simply. Huge wingspan, huge. Good rebounder considering his lack of strength. He's a decent finisher, absolutely no deep shot but a decent mid range game. His jumper is really funny looking, Chip would need to spend all summer with him to fix it. However, therein lies the problem. In the past Marcus has been reluctant to change the mechanics of his shot and his defensive game. It doesn't take a hall of fame coach like Lute Olsen to realize that a proper defensive stance bends at the knees and not the waist, but for whatever reason Marcus doesn't change. If he wont adjust his game for a hall of famer like Lute I dont know that he would change for Chip. If he changes his ways and decides to work then theres a very real chance he could be what we need. Unfortunately, his past indicates that he wont want to work on it and could be a problem in the locker room. Hopefully it works out, but it was a second round pick so its by no means something the Spurs are relying on.

[Kori Ellis]

Physically, there isn't any reason he can't be the "long 3" that we've been working on for quite some time now.

Long 3 is normally a guy is 6'9 or so. Williams is 3 like Bowen is a 3 - they are both almost 6'7. But not what I'd consider a long 3.

To me, a long 3 is someone who can swing from the 3 to the PF spot. Marcus wouldn't be that .. he'd just play the wingspots.


Huge wingspan, huge.

I keep hearing that, but then I just read that it is 83". 6'11 wingspan is pretty big for a 6'7 guy, but not close to the enomorous 7'2 wingspan that some people say he has.

Anyway, I don't know much about the guy to assess him. But hopefully he works hard and shows something in the summer.

[T Park]

What would really be nice is if Williams agrees to play overseas for one year a la Derrick Dial

not Austin?

[Dro210]

I don't think we disagree on the possible potential that Marcus has. Physically, there isn't any reason he can't be the "long 3" that we've been working on for quite some time now. What I see as one of my biggest concerns is something that even you said, he gave up on the team midway through the season. What happened if our guys gave up on the team when we were around the all star break? You just don't do that under any circumstances.

And the fact of the matter is he didn't butt heads with Lute from day 1. When he came and replaced Chris Rodgers in the starting 5, Lute repeatedly said that he could be the best freshman he has had since Sean Elliott, which to me is damn high praise. Somewhere between then and now something happened. And you can't say he should have been starting from the start. Budinger didnt start at first this season. Unless there is a supreme need, you don't start a freshman in a competitive Pac 10 until they had proven themselves. Are you suggesting he should have started ahead of seniors Hassan Adams and Chris Rodgers? That wouldn't work.


For everyone who hasn't been watching Marcus as much as Dro and I, I'll boil it down pretty simply. Huge wingspan, huge. Good rebounder considering his lack of strength. He's a decent finisher, absolutely no deep shot but a decent mid range game. His jumper is really funny looking, Chip would need to spend all summer with him to fix it. However, therein lies the problem. In the past Marcus has been reluctant to change the mechanics of his shot and his defensive game. It doesn't take a hall of fame coach like Lute Olsen to realize that a proper defensive stance bends at the knees and not the waist, but for whatever reason Marcus doesn't change. If he wont adjust his game for a hall of famer like Lute I dont know that he would change for Chip. If he changes his ways and decides to work then theres a very real chance he could be what we need. Unfortunately, his past indicates that he wont want to work on it and could be a problem in the locker room. Hopefully it works out, but it was a second round pick so its by no means something the Spurs are relying on.



Yea, I really see eye-to-eye with you on alot of this. Basically, I like him better defensivly than you, and I'm just more optimistic for his future. And that's because I think Marcus came into AZ young and raw, and got himself into trouble with his coach...... and HOPEFULLY he learned something from that. If he hasn't... I'll be the 1st to say I was wrong.

I also trust the Spurs judgement of character, and development of character, and think that if there is somethin wrong with him, if anybody can, we'll fix it


I remember Lute sayin that about him as a Freshman... I think that kinda fed into it.... Marcus was like, well if I'm that good, why am I not playing more?

and to answer your question.... yea, personally, I woulda started him that year.... cause I didn't have high expectations for that team, but I did for Marcus, and I was lookin for 'em to build for the next year. I know that's not the traditional thing to do (start a freshman over a senior), but it's what I had hoped to see.

Chase did start every game this year tho.

[Steve-O-Matic]

Bottom line: good or not good value at 33?

[TDMVPDPOY]

ppl are concern with his character and defense = stephen jackson prototype

he can work out and i have faith in it...BELIEVE!

this guy can play SF/SG/PG...his got the tools...smallball? fuck smallball

for him to crack the rotation = dude better start playin defense or he will be occupying beno in the doghouse with butler

[ChumpDumper]

He's a #33.

[Mr. Body]

Bottom line: good or not good value at 33?

Who else was available? That's where you draw your lines. Is he better than McRoberts or Derrick Byars?

[Steve-O-Matic]

You tell me. Good pick or not?

[Dro210]

Good pick.....

but who's really to say... it's all opinions and assumptions. We won't know for sure anytime soon. Byars or McRoberts (HA!) could turn out to be a stud.... but then again, they may not even ever make it in the league.... same can be said about Marcus right now... only time will tell.

but my opinion is that it's a steal at #33, and could turn into one of those guys that people say 5 years from now.... wow look at all the teams that overlooked this guy.

[DDUBB1770]

This would be absolutely terrible. I just graduated from Arizona and watched every single game of his 2 year college career. Lute Olsen was thrilled to see him go. I don't know that I have ever seen a more selfish player. When Chase Budinger came in and was clearly the superior player this year, Williams checked out mentally. He has absolutely no interest in playing any defense whatsoever, definitely not a fit for the Spurs and I really hope it doesn't happen.


Agreed! Just a heads up for everyone, I am an avid Arizona Wildcats fan being that both of my parents are alum and was raised watching the likes of Elliott and Kerr ect. Although Marcus Williams can score many of his points come from being very active on the offensive glass where he used his length (long arms) to keep balls alive, he may not be able to do this playing with the big boys, he does not create well for himself off the dribble, does not have much of post game to speak of, does get open well off of screens from teammates but is very streaky with his jumper. The worst part maybe especially for this team is that his free throw % dropped from like 74% or something freshman year down to 65% for much of his sophomore year, I recall he shot very well the last 5 or 6 games of the season including the Pac 10 and NCAA tourneys to bring it back up to the 69% range. As for his defense tough to say as Lute had the Cats play a lot of zone this year which is unusual for him, historically has almost always played man to man. Also Lute Olsen had issues with his work ethic in practice on more than one occasion. I hope for him to succeed with us as a die hard Spurs fan and Wildcats fan but if he makes the team at all I don't see him having a great impact, but hopefully I'm wrong, maybe the next Richard Jefferson type?

[Dro210]

Agreed! Just a heads up for everyone, I am an avid Arizona Wildcats fan being that both of my parents are alum and was raised watching the likes of Elliott and Kerr ect. Although Marcus Williams can score many of his points come from being very active on the offensive glass where he used his length (long arms) to keep balls alive, he may not be able to do this playing with the big boys, he does not create well for himself off the dribble, does not have much of post game to speak of, does get open well off of screens from teammates but is very streaky with his jumper. The worst part maybe especially for this team is that his free throw % dropped from like 74% or something freshman year down to 65% for much of his sophomore year, I recall he shot very well the last 5 or 6 games of the season including the Pac 10 and NCAA tourneys to bring it back up to the 69% range. As for his defense tough to say as Lute had the Cats play a lot of zone this year which is unusual for him, historically has almost always played man to man. Also Lute Olsen had issues with his work ethic in practice on more than one occasion. I hope for him to succeed with us as a die hard Spurs fan and Wildcats fan but if he makes the team at all I don't see him having a great impact, but hopefully I'm wrong, maybe the next Richard Jefferson type?

lol..... please never say that again


but he does create for himself well... and he doesn't need an outstanding post game seeing as he's more of a 1/2/3 than a 3/4

[jdaveah]

Good pick.....

but who's really to say... it's all opinions and assumptions. We won't know for sure anytime soon. Byars or McRoberts (HA!) could turn out to be a stud.... but then again, they may not even ever make it in the league.... same can be said about Marcus right now... only time will tell.

but my opinion is that it's a steal at #33, and could turn into one of those guys that people say 5 years from now.... wow look at all the teams that overlooked this guy.


I would have taken Byars ahead of Marcus and here's why: Could Marcus have taken Byars' Vandy team through the tourney like Derrick did? Put Marcus on that team and they're a first round and out team. Byars willed his team to win some of those games, which is something I never saw Marcus do. Byars also is a very strong defender, and though I realize Dro likes his defense I don't think its debatable that Byars is the better defender. Of course it doesn't matter now and we have Marcus, so it isn't really worth arguing.

And I do agree that at #33 his talent is worth taking the shot. I know the Spurs feel like they might be able to turn him around or they never would have picked him, but do we have much of a track record for turning around character guys? Have we ever done that well before? I was upset having taken him when Byars was still on the board since I wanted Byars at 28, but individually at 33 he's a decent value without considering what else was there.

[Mr. Body]

Byars really sunk in the draft, more than I thought.

I thought McRoberts was better than his draft position, too. (Houston, what were you thinking?)

Curiously they both almost wind up with Portland. At the moment I have to wonder whether McRoberts, talent-wise, wasn't a better pick than Splitter, and Byars wasn't a better pick than Williams.

[T Park]

Byars according to other scouts is terrible.

Splitter I don't know much about, and am not HUGE on, is better than McRoberts.

McRoberts blows.

[Mr. Body]

McRoberts is a much better shot blocker than Splitter, for one.

I dunno about Byars. I have this thing called 'television' that showed 'NCAA basketball games' and Byars is much better than terrible.

[T Park]

I have this thing called 'television' that showed 'NCAA basketball games' and Byars is much better than terrible.

I guess NBA scouts are morons then.

McRoberts is another Cherokee Parks. please. spare me.

[Mr. Body]

Why are you so fucking annoying? I was actually on your side twenty minutes ago, but you're like a sniveling, shriveled up smurf.

We'll see on McRoberts and Byars.

[Avitus1]

I wanna have faith so thats what I'll have. If it turns out that he sucks then I'll just call it but for now I guess I'll have faith and wait around to see if he sucks or not.... hopefully not though. He might be worth it.

[Buddy Holly]

Marcus Williams Block
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mBvD0ApLCxg


Marcus Williams Steal and Dunk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-93vCTg-8nk&NR=1

[Dro210]

I would have taken Byars ahead of Marcus and here's why: Could Marcus have taken Byars' Vandy team through the tourney like Derrick did? Put Marcus on that team and they're a first round and out team. Byars willed his team to win some of those games, which is something I never saw Marcus do. Byars also is a very strong defender, and though I realize Dro likes his defense I don't think its debatable that Byars is the better defender. Of course it doesn't matter now and we have Marcus, so it isn't really worth arguing.

And I do agree that at #33 his talent is worth taking the shot. I know the Spurs feel like they might be able to turn him around or they never would have picked him, but do we have much of a track record for turning around character guys? Have we ever done that well before? I was upset having taken him when Byars was still on the board since I wanted Byars at 28, but individually at 33 he's a decent value without considering what else was there.


Yea, Byars is for sure a better defender right now, he's also more NBA ready when it comes to strength.... but I'm alot happier with Marcus, I think the upside is just too much greater, and I think that's what the Spurs where thinking too. I don't think Byars is gonna get too much better than what he is right now.

We do have somewhat of a track record of doing this with guys (building character).... Stephen Jackson being the lmost notable. (and some will say... "Stephen Jackson??? You call Stephen Jackson a character guy?!?!..... Well, we never had a problem with him when he was here, it's everybody else that had the problems. I don't think it's a coincidence either)




and for all you McRobert's people...

I would have died alittle inside if we had drafted McRoberts.... Not just because he played at 'that school', but because the only undersized, white, big, playing college basketball in North Carolina last year that's gonna be a decent NBA player is Tyler Hansborough.

[AFBlue]

I have a feeling that the Spurs either wanted "their guy" at #28, or that they were going to go international...but RC said they had Tiago graded out as #2 on their board.

Also, I would trust the Spurs FO on this one since they've no doubt seen a ton of Splitter having kept an eye on his teammate, Scola.

On Byars v. Williams, it's a questionable pick because Byars was advertised as a "Spurs-type" guy with the intangibles and leadership. But, as many have said, it just doesn't seem like he has the projectable skills that Williams does.

With Splitter and Williams, it seems like the Spurs were saying that they were confident in this year's roster and didn't need any immediate help via the draft. Both players are fairly young and have some good upside....overall, solid draft.

[timvp]

http://draftexpress.com/forums/showthread.php?t=599

That thread (once you get past the Bobcats fans) has some rather high praise for Marcus Williams. It should be remember that this guy was considered a sure fire lottery pick not that long ago.

[Solid D]

Which headband-wearing baller will be ready for prime time action on the Wing next season?

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper997/stills/2dd7931j.jpg
#33 Pick in 2007

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/images/2006-2007/0408spurs5_white_dl.jpg
#31 Pick in 2006

[timvp]

Perhaps the Spurs actually did draft their backup point guard :cooldevil


As fill-in, Williams runs show, enjoys it
By Patrick Finley
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
Published: 02.14.2007

Marcus Williams is living every small forward's dream.

When Mustafa Shakur leaves the game for a few minutes, the sophomore takes over the point guard spot. He becomes the team's floor leader and touches the ball on every trip down the floor.

"I think he enjoys it," freshman Chase Budinger said. "He cracks jokes here and there, about being the next great UofA point guard."

It is tongue in cheek, to be sure.

"I come at Staf like, 'I'm coming for your spot,'" Williams laughed.

Williams' versatility allows the UA to not extend beyond its seven-man comfort zone. Bret Brielmaier and Jawann McClellan appear to be the only two steady bench players in coach Lute Olson's rotation, and neither play the point.

Williams' stop-gap position switch keeps the team's five best players — sans Shakur — on the floor.

Because of a sprained right ankle, Shakur sat for a total of 14 minutes on the team's road trip to Oregon. Nonetheless, backup guards Daniel Dillon and Nic Wise combined to play only one minute.

"It gives us the opportunity to get an experienced player in the game, particularly on the road," Olson said. "Marcus loves being out there. He'd like to be out there all the time, I think. It gives him an opportunity to show his abilities from a leadership standpoint.

"I think it's his experience — the fact that he's a sophomore. When people talk about young teams, we have two freshmen and a sophomore in the starting lineup, so there's still a lot of learning to do."

Even when Shakur is in the game, Williams might be assigned to guard the opposition's point guard.

Saturday, Williams blanketed 6-foot Oregon star Aaron Brooks. Seven inches taller than Brooks, Williams held one of the Pac-10's best players to six points on 2-of-14 shooting.

Olson praised Williams' defense, saying he accomplished the major goal from the team's scouting report — shading Brooks so he could not dribble to the right. In Tucson earlier this season, Brooks torched the Wildcats by dribbling to his right off a pick-and-roll.

"There's no question Marcus' length affected Brooks a lot," Olson said. "On Brooks' perimeter shot, that long arm was up there."

Olson was not surprised. The UA coach compared him to Michael Dickerson, the slashing swingman who played point guard to rest Mike Bibby and Jason Terry from 1995-98.

Williams has played four positions — all but center — for the Wildcats this season. He was essentially the team's power forward through the first 18 games of the season.

"He's a versatile guy," forward Ivan Radenovic said. "He has the skills to be a point guard. He has the skills to be a power forward."

Budinger said, "Marcus is a good enough player to play the point guard position, make good decisions and push the ball."

Williams, who played some point guard in high school, admits that every wing wants to run the show every now and again.

"Handling the ball and playing point guard is a little different," he said. "It's not a huge adjustment. The biggest thing is, you've gotta keep your turnovers down.

"You're like the floor general, the quarterback. Obviously, the team kinda goes off you. If you can't get the ball past halfcourt, your team's not going to be effective."

That has not happened yet. Williams is not a true point guard, but, for a few minutes per game, he fills in nicely.

"It allows us to do things we otherwise couldn't do," Olson said.

[SenorSpur]

Which headband-wearing baller will be ready for prime time action on the Wing next season?

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper997/stills/2dd7931j.jpg
#33 Pick in 2007

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/images/2006-2007/0408spurs5_white_dl.jpg
#31 Pick in 2006

Good point. Another wing player was sorely needed. Looking forward to seeing these two compete in the summer league and for a roster spot.

[Dro210]

I mentioned that in another thread (or maybe the other forum i visit... don't worry guys, not spursreport, lol)

But yea, I do think we'll be at least testing him out alittle bit to see if he can play at the 1 spot at this level or not.... He's too good of a ball handler and passer not to. Think along the lines of a young Brent Barry when he would play some point, faster, longer, better defender, but without the range. He's crafty like that tho.

[florige]

He certainly doesn't sound like Spurs material. Makes me wonder why the fuck Pop and R.C. "took a flyer on him."


Thats what happens when year after year you either win the championship, or have one of the better records in the league. You are pretty much stuck with a "meh" type of draft. Tony "Spurs" Menja on CBS gave us an A, and gave Phx a D.

[ICE3000]

I think I'm going to go with Spurs front office over some random internet poster :lol


AMEN TO THAT.... I HOPE THIS GUY TURNS OUT TO BE A STEAL SO I COULD WATCH ALL THE NAYSAYERS RIDE HIS SACK

[wildbill2u]

No guarantee so he's low risk. Upside looks good as consensus seems to be he's athletic and good defender with decent shot making ability off the jumper as well as driving to the basket.

The fact that he played multiple positions including PG for Lute Olson shows he has good BB instincts and ball handling skills. Spurs worked him out so they have a pretty good idea of his skills. I say not a bad pick at 33.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Saturday, Williams blanketed 6-foot Oregon star Aaron Brooks. Seven inches taller than Brooks, Williams held one of the Pac-10's best players to six points on 2-of-14 shooting.


That's Bowenesque. And yet Tpark didn't want us to draft anyone with that pick last night.

[ducks]

Perhaps the Spurs actually did draft their backup point guard :cooldevil
this would be awesome

[IceColdBrewski]

I'm as big an Arizona Wildcat fan there is, and I like this pick at 33. Williams wasn't even considered to be a 5 star prospect when he went to UA, yet he still played himself into big minutes. That's no small feat considering that Olson usually sits the younger guys for the most part. He almost took Pac 10 FOY honors, and he was All Pac as a sophomore.

I think people talking about his "attitude" are blowing it way out of proportion. IMO, I think Marcus wanted to be "the man" as soon as he stepped onto the campus. But Lute doesn't play those games. Lute, like Popovich, wants it to be a team effort. Not just one guy leading the charge. Williams was benched early last season for being too much of a ball hog, so Lute was definitely trying to remedy the problem. After a year or 2 under Popovich and all the vets, I think he'll learn quickly that it's a team game.

He can score, and yes, he can play defense. This is not a bad pick at 33.

Where's JMarkJohns? He's the one who subscribes to the premium content over at goazcats.com. Maybe he can share a few tidbits about his "attitude" with those of us aren't as informed as he is.

[raspsa]

I wonder that too.
Will Spurs trade one ? keep both ? cut oen before the start of the season ? Or do Spurs thinks White is a bust ?
I will be curious to see what will happen with White and Williams.
Pip will pit them against each other and the one who works harder, specially on defense, will get the majority of the playing time.. same strategy with Oberto and Elson.

[K-State Spur]

McRoberts is a much better shot blocker than Splitter, for one.

I dunno about Byars. I have this thing called 'television' that showed 'NCAA basketball games' and Byars is much better than terrible.

Did you watch this thing at any point before last season?

And he was great last year - no disputing that - but he still had some major flaws in his game.

[Mr. Body]

Did you watch this thing at any point before last season?

And he was great last year - no disputing that - but he still had some major flaws in his game.

And Williams doesn't?

[JMarkJohns]

This was a guy who I openly wondered why he wasn't getting more consideration as a possible Spur. A lot of what I've seen and read about him fits close to what the Spurs need. I wish he were a couple inches taller, but as is he seems like a pretty good prospect.

He's only 21 and hasn't played that much basketball yet, so he has time to improve. When I watched him, I thought he was a very good ballhandler for his size. He made some pretty good passes and has some innate scoring ability.

He is another guy who I can trust that the Spurs have scouted well. The Spurs front office and other people close to the team (Sean Elliott, to name one) have contacts at Arizona, so they have a pretty good idea what Williams is about.

I'm not ecstatic about this pick but he seems to be an intriguing prospect. He's high risk/high reward in the sense that he could bust out real quick if his attitude is shaky, or he could develop nicely in the Spurs system. He still has the potential, he just needs the work ethic and the belief in him to be there.

Many opinions in this thread are valid. He's a vocal kid, who let's his emotions get the best of him. He can take over a game, sometimes to the detriment of his teammates, but here's why...

The kid is a winner.

Already mentioned in this thread was his willingness to defend every single top offensive wing in the Pac-10. That includes the likes of Brooks, whom he SHUT DOWN upon playing him, Afflalo, who had some decent games, and Nick Young, who struggled once, but got hot at the end, and another time was hot early, but struggled late.

What hasn't been mentioned is tht this kid is a taylor-made SG, who's had to play SF and PF for Arizona. Thei may have helped him with some down-loe post moves, that he should be able to use on smaller SG's.

Again, this kid has bent over backwards to help Arizona. In several instances, he even played backup PG when Arizona's backup was unable to play. The kid has good court vision and a very good handle.

Arizona fans wrongfully take their frustration out on Marcus for the team's struggles the past couple seasons. Thing is, had he had a PG that was capable of running a team, involving everyone and creating open shots, he'd have been a top-20 pick. When Shakur's PG skills went to shit, Marcus felt it was on him as the defacto captain to step up and lead. Had he not, these "selfish" issues and "attitude" problems wouldn't have surfaced.

The kid has the potential to be a 20-point per game scorer in the NBA. Trust me. I've seen every single UA great, and he's far and away the best pure scorer they've had since Arenas.

He's an isolation player, which is the main problem. Still, Manu and Tony are isolation players, and they thrive. You give him 10 minutes, he'll give you 10 points. His mid-range shot is sweet and he can handle himself around the basket thanks to his time downlow vs. bangers like Taj Gibson, the Lopez twins, Jon Brockman and Spencer Hawes, the UCLA frontcourt tandoms, etc...

He needs to be in a system that proves to him he doesn't have to revert for them to win. Had he gone to some lesser team where he's the man, he basically becomes Glenn Robinson's clone and gets his, while his teammates struggle. he just wants to win so bad, that, just like Kobe, if his teammates aren't gettig it done, then someone has to.

With the Spurs, most Arizona fans, hope and pray he sees he can thrive within a team, because on good teams everyone knows their role, and does it.

Anyways, just my two cents.

We'll just have to see...

[Budkin]

Thanks JMJ! :tu

[bdictjames]

Let him have garbage time and let's see what this boy can do!!

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

From what I saw of Arizona this year I liked MWill's game. He's a little skinny and isn't a high flier, but he can definitely shoot the ball.

If you could morph Williams and White you'd have the perfect 2/3 big guard.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think it's a great pickup. You get a guy whose main 'knock' is his attitude, but you get him in the second round where you can hold it over his head and say 'act up, and we cut you.'

[Obstructed_View]

I'm liking this pick more and more.

[JMarkJohns]

It could be a struggle, but no more of one than turning Jackson into a quality team player. He's got more talent and pure offensive ability than Jackson, though maybe not the range. That's yet to be seen.

He's definately a high risk, high reward type, but I'm a farely good assessor of talent (not to toot my own horn), and I am, without a doubt, confident, that should he get "it" and Pops plays him, he'll be a rotation player for several years, and then maybe a star. He's not a dumb player. He's smart. Not great IQ, but smart nonetheless... He's a good SG prospect, but his versatility will go a long way to endear him to a coaches heart. That and his willingness to do whatever a coach asks.

I hope Pops can clear his head of the "I've got to take over" mentality. He was a great player on a crappy prep team, and that's where he developed such. Then he was a very good youngster on a crappy veteran squad and felt out of place at first, ill-used next and then persecuted for trying to be himself lastly.

[T Park]

Damn, Jeff and Walter juust had the assistant coach from Arizona on.

The way he sounds, man, he sounds like Bruce Bowen's friggen TWIN!.

He also said that RC had been hanging around alot this year at practices and what not, and had observed Marcus quite a bit.

[timvp]

Thanks for the scouting reports, JMarkJohns. The upcoming summer leagues for the Spurs should be pretty interesting with Williams at shooting guard and White at small forward. That's a pretty strong pairing for summer league.

I wonder if they'll play Williams a little bit at point in summer league to see if he can do anything at that position. If Williams shows that he can play point guard in an emergency, perhaps the Spurs could look to trade Beno without having to fill the need for a third string point.

[jdaveah]

Damn, Jeff and Walter juust had the assistant coach from Arizona on.

The way he sounds, man, he sounds like Bruce Bowen's friggen TWIN!.

He also said that RC had been hanging around alot this year at practices and what not, and had observed Marcus quite a bit.


I didn't hear the show but do you remember if it was Josh Pastner? Ive heard him talk on some other shows and I'm pretty sure he's under the impression that we won the national title the last 3 seasons. Bruce Bowen's twin is about the biggest exaggeration I've ever heard if thats the case.

[Obstructed_View]

If he shows some ability to handle the ball, creates shots for himself and others, can hit midrange jumpers consistantly and can demonstrate a modicum of maturity and mental toughness then there's a spot on this roster for him.

[JMarkJohns]

Maturity was never the issue. At least not from my vantage point. Again, when things were great last year, there were no issues regarding Williams. Not on the court. Not off. When Chase hit the freshman wall mid-way through the Pac-10 schedule, and believe me, he hit it, and with Shakur several weeks in the shitter, he and Radenovic attempted to right the ship. Ivan is a flawed talent. His best traits work on offense, and though a quality defender, his lack of elevation, explosion and quickness really forced Marcus to take on more leadership than the coaches wanted him to take/have. He toed the line for a while, but when wins never came, he took it upon himself to carry the team. The team was without a leader, and he tried his best to step up. Along the way came clashes with the coaches, some forced play and frustration stemming from both. To compound matters, when he started scoring 20+ a night, and the team still lost more than half their games, fans started the "ballhog" issues.

Whether true ot not, they weren't as much from nature as from necessity. His teammates, namely Shakur, had let him down. He wanted to win. circumstance never allowed that, no matter how hard he tried, and seemingly no matter who they played.

I can't tell you for sure he'll get it here. But I have no doubts that if he does, he'll prove a steal. Last year he was discussed as a top-20 pick. They said if he improved himself, he could be a lottery pick. That proves he has talent.

Last year's Arizona squad screwed up his direction.

Pops is one of the best coaches at righting the ship.

You'll have to work with his set release. He's a far better shooter off the dribble than in set plays. That's fixable, but probably what caused a 10-spot drop. The other 10-spots were these issues.

Winning fixes all.

[JMarkJohns]

As for Marcus at PG, it will work, so long as there's someone there who'll make the buckets when Marcus passes. That, and he'll need some structure. Set plays for him, let him develop habits. He's certainly no freewheeler...

If nobody makes the open shots he generates, that's when he'll start to revert. That's his main bad habit on the court. The Arizona teams of the past two seasons have had horrendous outside shooting.

[T Park]

I didn't hear the show but do you remember if it was Josh Pastner? Ive heard him talk on some other shows and I'm pretty sure he's under the impression that we won the national title the last 3 seasons. Bruce Bowen's twin is about the biggest exaggeration I've ever heard if thats the case.

No I said Bruce Bowen twin is what I took from it.

He said hes a heady, high basketball IQ player, that has a good midrange shot, but could use some muscle.

He said hes a legit 6'7, and very long.

Sounds to me like Bruce Bowen.

[T Park]

If nobody makes the open shots he generates, that's when he'll start to revert. That's his main bad habit on the court. The Arizona teams of the past two seasons have had horrendous outside shooting.

Eh, the coaching staff will fix that....

[Obstructed_View]

Maturity was never the issue. At least not from my vantage point. Again, when things were great last year, there were no issues regarding Williams. Not on the court. Not off. When Chase hit the freshman wall mid-way through the Pac-10 schedule, and believe me, he hit it, and with Shakur several weeks in the shitter, he and Radenovic attempted to right the ship. Ivan is a flawed talent. His best traits work on offense, and though a quality defender, his lack of elevation, explosion and quickness really forced Marcus to take on more leadership than the coaches wanted him to take/have. He toed the line for a while, but when wins never came, he took it upon himself to carry the team. The team was without a leader, and he tried his best to step up. Along the way came clashes with the coaches, some forced play and frustration stemming from both. To compound matters, when he started scoring 20+ a night, and the team still lost more than half their games, fans started the "ballhog" issues.

Whether true ot not, they weren't as much from nature as from necessity. His teammates, namely Shakur, had let him down. He wanted to win. circumstance never allowed that, no matter how hard he tried, and seemingly no matter who they played.

I can't tell you for sure he'll get it here. But I have no doubts that if he does, he'll prove a steal. Last year he was discussed as a top-20 pick. They said if he improved himself, he could be a lottery pick. That proves he has talent.

Last year's Arizona squad screwed up his direction.

Pops is one of the best coaches at righting the ship.

You'll have to work with his set release. He's a far better shooter off the dribble than in set plays. That's fixable, but probably what caused a 10-spot drop. The other 10-spots were these issues.

Winning fixes all.

I basically described a combination of what Glenn Robinson provided when here and what Beno should have provided. I was referring to the maturity that Beno doesn't have, not as it relates to anything in Marcus' past. He's starting off with a clean slate AFAIC.

[T Park]

Hmm

What Glenn Robinson brought, and what Beno should have.

Youth infusion and good ball handling, good mid range shooter that can defend guys like Carmello Anthony?

[JMarkJohns]

One other thing, I believe what affected his shot this year, as opposed to last year, was him adding muscle to be strong enough to play the four. If you don't do both at the same time, add muscle and keep on top of you shot, you can be affected by the increased strength adversely. I believe Marcus kept on top of his mid-range game, but spent more time in the weight room and around the basket than attempting set perimeter shots.

I saw it with Hassan Adams as well. For his firs two years, he was used down low. He would occasionally venture out on the perimeter and had pretty decent success. His last two year's he spent on the wing, but it was after he had prepared for work down low. His shot was never consistant, and he lacked an overall feel.

Silly stuff in general, but it's just another brick in the pile that dropped his status.

I wouldn't say he's Bowen. A more defensively interested, but physically smaller Maggette is a comparison I'd make. Not the physical speciman, not the freak athlete, but more willing to do the dirty work, as well as score, score, score...

[Obstructed_View]

Hmm

What Glenn Robinson brought, and what Beno should have.

Youth infusion and good ball handling, good mid range shooter that can defend guys like Carmello Anthony?
Sounds good to me. Would you be happy with a second round pick that could turn into that?

[Dro210]

I can't co-sign JMJ enough..... basically everything he said, I agree with.... everything. He really hit the nail on the head w/ his points about Shakur, wanting to win, wanting to play, and about Marcus being a 3/2/1 and not a 3/4

and after a night of sleep, day of work.... I'm still exstatic about this pick

[Steve-O-Matic]

Better put some meat on 'dem bones.

http://www.draftexpress.com/gallery/General/1180072003.jpg

[T Park]

Sounds good to me. Would you be happy with a second round pick that could turn into that?

Damn straight.

[JMarkJohns]

Better put some meat on 'dem bones.

http://www.draftexpress.com/gallery/General/1180072003.jpg

He'll be a shooting guard for the Spurs. He's a solid 6-7/6-8, 200/205 pounds. That's a lot better than the 6-7/6-8, 180/185 when he arrived on campus.

[Dro210]

People forget that Bruce is 6'7 200.... Barry is 6'7 210.... Manu is 6'6 205.... Flight is 6'7 200.... Only guy like that we have at the 2/3 that's bigger is Fin at 6'7 225

[jdaveah]

As for Marcus at PG, it will work, so long as there's someone there who'll make the buckets when Marcus passes. That, and he'll need some structure. Set plays for him, let him develop habits. He's certainly no freewheeler...

If nobody makes the open shots he generates, that's when he'll start to revert. That's his main bad habit on the court. The Arizona teams of the past two seasons have had horrendous outside shooting.


Marcus was a passable backup point for a stretch of about 6 games when Nic Wise was injured for a mediocre NCAA team. I'm all for his potential at the 2/3 but to say that he could run the point for us is really really stretching it.

[mardigan]

Finally, a guy wth visable tats that wears a head band

[JMarkJohns]

Marcus was a passable backup point for a stretch of about 6 games when Nic Wise was injured for a mediocre NCAA team. I'm all for his potential at the 2/3 but to say that he could run the point for us is really really stretching it.

I didn't say for the Spurs. I said for the Summer League team. Context... That quote was in response to a statement or question relating to Marcus during summer league play.

I said he's a SG for the Spurs, but he's a SG who can swing to SF for occasions and maybe defend various 1-2-3 spots, and, when the PF is like Marion, Diaw, or any other smallish four, even that spot.

He'll obviously need to add some strength, but in two year's he's added 20 pounds of muscle. I'm guessing he can add another 10-to-15 pounds.