Contract lengths left etc. Calling GM's [Archive]

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Rummpd

12-05-2004, 09:05 AM

usckk

12-05-2004, 09:58 AM

Devin Brown is a unrestricted free-agent after this season, I think. That means Brown can go sign a contract with any team. However, the Spurs do have Early Birds Rights on him, meaning they the Spurs can also give him a contract that can go over the cap. Further, Brown is not a rookie. He played for the SPurs last year.

Brodels

12-05-2004, 10:03 AM

ATTN: "Supremo GM type Fans":

Hoping to keep really keep Devin Brown in two years - when exactly is he restricted/free? Same with Beno three years am I right as a rookie?
I know TD, TP, MG, Rasho, Barry fairly long=term left what about also
what are length left of the following contracts and how much are they at?:

Rose (want to keep unless Scola here for sure and makes sig. impact.)
Horry (needs to rebound more and make 3's to justify staying)
Massenburg (is he worth what he is bringing)
Wilks (believe 2)
Bowen (Will he accept less minutes? Is there a demand for him)

MadDoc

Devin Brown - He signed a two-year deal before last season, so he'll be a free agent this summer. If I recall correctly, the Spurs won't have full Bird rights on him. They'll be in a Ginobili-like situation with him. If nothing changes in the next CBA,they'll be able to pay him up to the MLE. That shouldn't be a problem.

But will Holt agree to shell out even more money after signing Duncan, Manu, Parker, Rasho, Rose, Barry, and Bowen to long-term contracts? In my estimation, Devin isn't a lock to come back. Holt will draw the line somewhere. And if Devin continues to play well and commands more than $1.5 - $2 million per year, you can bet that management will think long and hard about paying that.

Rose (want to keep unless Scola here for sure and makes sig. impact.) - He's under contract through 2008, so he isn't going anywhere. The Spurs have tried to dump him rather large contract in the past, but nobody (including the Spurs) wants to pay him $7.1 million in the final year of the contract. He'll be sticking around.

Side note - Scola and Brown will have to split the MLE next season if both of them are to be on the team next season. Can this get done?

Horry (needs to rebound more and make 3's to justify staying) - Vet minimum. The Spurs will decide on him on a year-to-year basis. Personally, I can see this being his last season in SA.

Massenburg (is he worth what he is bringing) - Of course he is worth what he is bringing. He's playing on a one-year deal for the vet minimum and the league is paying half of his salary. What better big man are you going to get for the same price? He has a role on the team just like Kevin Willis did. And he's doing what's expected of him.

Wilks (believe 2) - With Tony and Beno around for a while, I can't see Wilks sticking around beyond this season. He's played well when he's actually received playing time, so it's likely that he'll bolt if he can find a situation that would give him more playing time.

Bowen (Will he accept less minutes? Is there a demand for him) - He's around through 2007 and his contract contains a team option for 2008. He finished second in DPOY last season. He only makes $3 million. Why would the premier perimeter defender (with Artest gone) in the NBA get less minutes? He's been pretty solid this season, and the Spurs defense is anchored by him and Tim. There is no reason to believe that he won't be starting, and there isn't a good reason to hope that he loses his starting job.

Beno - He'll be around until the end of the 2006-2007 season at least, and there are options for the two years after that. It's too early to tell if he'll be retained. And it's still too early to know whether or not he's a quality NBA point guard.

Rummpd

12-05-2004, 10:17 AM

Thanks and I know Brown not a rookie.

MadDoc

RobinsontoDuncan

12-05-2004, 10:48 AM

My question is really scola, where and when will he finally play? Dont we eventually lose our rights on him?

Brodels

12-05-2004, 11:52 AM

My question is really scola, where and when will he finally play? Dont we eventually lose our rights on him?

Not unless we trade him.

I mean, he might have come over for this season if financial issues didn't complicate matters.

He could very well come next summer, but the Spurs will still have financial issues to deal with then.

If you want the Spurs to be in the best possible financial situation next summer, pray that Pop plays Devin Brown less.

Brown is going to price himself out of the Spurs' range if he keeps playing like this.

boutons

12-05-2004, 11:57 AM

"price himself out of the Spurs' range"

and he won't say no to millions more offered to him from other teams. His family and local fan club will just have get NBA TV.

whottt

12-05-2004, 12:14 PM

Brodels, so let me get this straight...

37 Year old Massenburg, with his 0 rings, and never being a starter or bench player of note on any team, who fouls out in a about a quarter of play, is a good vet min player.

While...

34 Year old Horry, who has started or been the first man off the bench on 5 NBA champions, who is a better scorer, shotblocker, passer, defender, has 3 point range, and is smarter, is a bad player for the vet min?

Got it...just wanted to make sure I understood the mindset of the Horry haters this year...

Let me guess...you are one of the guys who thinks we should still be trying to trade for Jason Kidd?

ChumpDumper

12-05-2004, 01:18 PM

Brown has already turned down guaranteed money for a chance to be a Spur. It remains to be seen just how much he is going to demand. If Manu, Rasho and Parker have settled for less to be a Spur, one has to wonder what Devin will pass on to stay home. He's already getting what seems to be the required PT.

Horry and Mass could easily some back or be let go, depending on which other vets show interest.

whottt

12-05-2004, 01:22 PM

Chump, if we use Devin's early bird rights...that doesn't come out of the MLE does it?

Isn't that a different exception that's equivalant in value to the MLE?

I mean like technically...if we had an owner willing to spend...Devin and Scola would not have to split the MLE, they could both be signed to an amount @ the MLE...is this correct?

ChumpDumper

12-05-2004, 01:24 PM

Correct.

And seeing as the Spurs wanted to sign Scola this past offseason, I think they'll bite the bullet and sign him whether Malik is dumped or not. I haven't seen anything to indicate Scola's price next summer would be higher than last summer's.

Brodels

12-05-2004, 01:55 PM

Hey dumbass, this is all I said about Horry:

"The Spurs will decide on him on a year-to-year basis. Personally, I can see this being his last season in SA."

Um, how does that = hating Horry?

Let's evaluate that piece by piece:

"The Spurs will decide on him on a year-to-year basis."

Hmmm...no hate there. In fact, that's what the Spurs are going.

"Personally, I can see this being his last season in SA."

If you think that I think Horry is a bad player for the vet minimum because I believe that he won't be back next season, your reading comprehension needs some work. I think he'll be gone because Malik is under contract and it's quite possible that Scola will be coming over. That doesn't leave a lot of room for Horry.

You could at least read the post before you peg me as a Horry hater and make yourself look like a fool. Horry is one of my favorite players.

And please enlighten me: what does this conversation have to do with trading for Jason Kidd?

Brodels, so let me get this straight...

37 Year old Massenburg, with his 0 rings, and never being a starter or bench player of note on any team, who fouls out in a about a quarter of play, is a good vet min player.

While...

34 Year old Horry, who has started or been the first man off the bench on 5 NBA champions, who is a better scorer, shotblocker, passer, defender, has 3 point range, and is smarter, is a bad player for the vet min?

Got it...just wanted to make sure I understood the mindset of the Horry haters this year...

Let me guess...you are one of the guys who thinks we should still be trying to trade for Jason Kidd?

ChumpDumper

12-05-2004, 02:02 PM

Well, if Javtokas comes over as well, Massenburg is pretty much gone. And if you plan on having Scola and Rose on the same team, where does that leave Horry? Bumping Marks off the roster?

whottt

12-05-2004, 02:17 PM

Brodes wrote:

You could at least read the post before you peg me as a Horry hater and make yourself look like a fool. Horry is one of my favorite players.

OK...

Horry (needs to rebound more and make 3's to justify staying) - Vet minimum. The Spurs will decide on him on a year-to-year basis. Personally, I can see this being his last season in SA.

Massenburg (is he worth what he is bringing) - Of course he is worth what he is bringing. He's playing on a one-year deal for the vet minimum and the league is paying half of his salary. What better big man are you going to get for the same price? :rolleyes He has a role on the team just like Kevin Willis did. And he's doing what's expected of him.

Those battle blog judges need their ass kicked.

And please enlighten me: what does this conversation have to do with trading for Jason Kidd?

It's a similar line of stupid logic.

:)

Brodels

12-05-2004, 02:56 PM

OK...

I was listings Rumppd's concerns line by line. If you would have actually read the thread, you would have realized that those weren't my words. You could actually read the thread, you know. It might help you understand what's going on.

Try to keep up with the conversation before calling people out, O.K.?

It's a similar line of stupid logic.

Elaborate. How did what I said about Horry show that I would support trading for Kidd?

boutons

12-05-2004, 03:06 PM

"Massenburg....And he's doing what's expected of him."

Nope, no Spurs gm/coach/scout could have expected Klutzenberg to be so useless and counter-productive.

A stat line to die for! 48-min rate for PFs is over 10, while scoring less that one bucket/game, -25 pts net team contribution while he's on the court.

http://82games.com/04SAS10D.HTM

Can we get the NBA to pay all of his salary? How about waiving him and activating Marks?

Brodels

12-05-2004, 03:28 PM

Nope, no Spurs gm/coach/scout could have expected Klutzenberg to be so useless and counter-productive.

A stat line to die for! 48-min rate for PFs is over 10, while scoring less that one bucket/game, -25 pts net team contribution while he's on the court.

Looking at box scores isn't going to tell you the whole story about a player's effectiveness. Step away from the box score and look at what's expected of him.

He's not expected to play very many minutes. He's not expected to play in big moments. He's not expected to score.

He is expected to play some defense. He's expected to rebound. He's expected to battle Duncan in practice. He's expected to be a good teammate.

And that's it. His value simply cannot be measured statistically.

I was skeptical about him because of his bitching in Sac last season, but he's done exactly what he's supposed to do. He's not a star. He's not even a regular NBA player. But he's met expectations.

-25 pts net team contribution while he's on the court.

What you fail to mention is that he often plays garbage minutes with the team's crappiest players. And he rarely gets the benefit of playing with the Spurs' top players. Of course the Spurs are going to struggle sometimes when he's in the game. If he's in the game, chances are the other reserves are in the game.

no Spurs gm/coach/scout could have expected Klutzenberg to be so useless and counter-productive.

Can we get the NBA to pay all of his salary? How about waiving him and activating Marks?

Nope. If the coaching staff believes that he isn't meeting expectations, they will activate Marks. So far they haven't done that. That should tell you that he's doing what's expected of him. Pop doesn't keep players around if they aren't doing what they should be doing. See Mercer, Ron.

He's the eleventh guy on the bench. He isn't going to do great things. And he's not expected to.

GoSpurs21

12-05-2004, 03:37 PM

My question is really scola, where and when will he finally play? Dont we eventually lose our rights on him?

Not unless we trade him.

Please explain to me how your statement is true. In the past: David served 2 years in the Navy and was free to go anywhere in 89. When Hornets drafted Kobe, he vowed to sit out season in order to go where he wanted. So how is it that the Spurs will always own Scolas rights? Is there something in the current CBA that doesnt allow a person to sit out for a certain time to become a free agent?

RobinsontoDuncan

12-05-2004, 03:40 PM

i cant imagine that being very fair to the player considering he has shown intrest in entering the NBA and we could potentially never call him up

ChumpDumper

12-05-2004, 03:44 PM

grjr

12-05-2004, 03:46 PM

Brodels

12-05-2004, 03:48 PM

Please explain to me how your statement is true. In the past: David served 2 years in the Navy and was free to go anywhere in 89. When Hornets drafted Kobe, he vowed to sit out season in order to go where he wanted. So how is it that the Spurs will always own Scolas rights? Is there something in the current CBA that doesnt allow a person to sit out for a certain time to become a free agent?

"If the player is already under contract, or signs a contract with a non-NBA team, the team retains the player's draft rights for one year after the player's obligation to the non-NBA team ends. Essentially, the clock stops as long as the player plays pro ball outside the NBA. Players are not included in the team's team salary while the player is under contract with a non-NBA team."

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

I mean, if Scola wants to not play basketball for an entire year, I guess he could go elsewhere. The original question I believe was asked with the understanding that Scola would either be playing in Europe or in the NBA. If he doesn't want to play at all for a year, he could sign elsewhere.

So it's theoretically possible that he could sit out and become a free agent. But that means no basketball at a professional level for an entire year. That's simply not going to happen because Scola isn't going to give up those $$$ in the prime of his career and he would have to get back into game shape after his year would be up.

So while it's possible, in reality, the Spurs aren't going to lose his rights unless they trade him because Scola isn't going to sit out a year in the prime of his career.

Kori Ellis

12-05-2004, 03:49 PM

Side note - Scola and Brown will have to split the MLE next season if both of them are to be on the team next season.

This statement is incorrect, right? They can pay Scola the whole MLE if they want to do so, and they can pay Devin up to the average league salary. They wouldn't pay them both that much, I would think, because of luxury tax implications (if there still is one).

Brodels

12-05-2004, 03:50 PM

This statement is incorrect, right? They can pay Scola the whole MLE if they want to do so, and they can pay Devin up to the average league salary. They wouldn't pay them both that much, I would think, because of luxury tax implications (if there still is one).

Yes. I was wrong about that.

But it will be interesting to see how much the new CBA differs from the current one.

ChumpDumper

12-05-2004, 03:51 PM

He may have been talking about total dollars spent, but no, Devin won't cost a cent of MLE money unless they choose to sign him to a very short contract.

GoSpurs21

12-05-2004, 03:58 PM

thanks for explaining it to me. it makes sense that once a player stops playing under a contract, the team has one year to sign him. seems fair for both player and team.

Kori Ellis

12-05-2004, 03:59 PM

But it will be interesting to see how much the new CBA differs from the current one.

When will we know the changes to the CBA? June?

ChumpDumper

12-05-2004, 04:04 PM

Barring a lockout, probably.

Brodels

12-05-2004, 04:04 PM

When will we know the changes to the CBA? June?

I don't know. I would assume that the changes will become public once the players association and the league come to an agreement.

Some have said that it could happen after the new year, but as past history shows, it could very well drag out until late spring or summer. It doesn't look like it will be ugly this time as it has been in the past, but I guess you never really know.

whottt

12-05-2004, 04:12 PM

I was listings Rumppd's concerns line by line. If you would have actually read the thread, you would have realized that those weren't my words. You could actually read the thread, you know. It might help you understand what's going on.

Try to keep up with the conversation before calling people out, O.K.?

I did...I highlighted where you agreed with him. Read it again.

Actually...you seemed more pro Massenburg than he did now that I think about it.

Elaborate. How did what I said about Horry show that I would support trading for Kidd?

I don't know if you support or supported trading for Kidd at any point...but it was a dumb argument then...just like it's a dumb argument now...Similar to this current anti-Horry movement...

IOW, it was a smartass comment meant to get a rise out of you, moreso than to be some kind of factual proof of your Horry/Mass comments being stupid...I was asking :)

RobinsontoDuncan

12-05-2004, 07:15 PM

my question is then, when can we bring scola here, we also have to get jovkoda (whatever the hell his name is) here eventually and i see us either losing Devin Brown (that might hurt) or telling scola to wait another year to come here, two really bad options

Brodels

12-05-2004, 07:59 PM

I did...I highlighted where you agreed with him. Read it again.

You pointed to a part of my post where I quoted him. Put down the pipe.

my question is then, when can we bring scola here, we also have to get jovkoda (whatever the hell his name is) here eventually and i see us either losing Devin Brown (that might hurt) or telling scola to wait another year to come here, two really bad options

We can re-sign Brown and bring Scola over in theory. I guess it's about Holt and his willingness to shell out more money. I'm sure he won't want to pay the luxury tax if there will be one in the next CBA, but even if there isn't, he still must have a maximum number in mind. And adding $5 million or more in new contracts to a payroll already growing steadily through yearly raises could scare him. He did just shell out some serious money for Parker and Manu. I think he did more than people thought he would to keep the core together and intact.

I think a lot of it depends on what Scola will be looking for in terms of $$$ at the end of this season and how much Brown impresses other coaches, GMs, and scouts this season. It's really too early to tell at this point. And as always, both are only a solid knee twist away from being practically useless.

I don't think Javtokas is a lock to come over at any point. He's almost certainly less of a priority than Scola. He used to be an athletic freak, and if he hadn't been in that accident, he might already be here now.