The Oberto Dilemma - Oberto declines his option/becomes a free agent

[picnroll]

Would you try to work a S&T with Cleveland Oberto for Varejao? Maybe throw in odds and ends like the 33rd pick, Beno or rights to Scola?

[ArgSpursFan]

As earlier posts have noted, it's the Spurs that made Fabs, not vice versa.


If it was that easy as you say,Rasho and Nazr should´ve been still wearing a spurs uniform,don´t you think?
Besides,I don´t think Fabricio is trying to make a stupid move,I just think He is trying to secure his last 3 or 4 yrs as an active player,that´s all.
If you look at fabricio´s skills He will still do the same things He does right now in 3 or 4 yrs,coze he doesn´t base his game on athletisism,just smart BB.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, he was fairly significant in the other 3 postseason series.

He's a smart capable big who doesn't need the rock to be effective and he knows the things that other talents still haven't figured out how to do at the 5. And he plays well on the big stage. Those qualities are both very valuable for a serious contender.

As for Houston, they can gain their athleticism on the perimeter.

[Marcus Bryant]

I know the Raps can't have him and Pietrus, but they don't have any inside defenders outside of Rasho, and we all know about their affinity for international players of late.

S&T, Oberto for Graham + filler...throw in Beno if you want.

Why?

[Marcus Bryant]

Door/butt to both Oberto and Finley if they try getting years and bucks from the Spurs. Sincere thanks for going 1-2 on Championships and hasta.
As earlier posts have noted, it's the Spurs that made Fabs, not vice versa.
If he can get on a contending team and contribute to a Finals again, best wishes. I think they both should stay on the Spurs for the hometown price and title for one more year. Fabs could still get his new contract after that and Finley, don't make us laugh anymore on the money front.

Finally the Spurs find a center for the postseason and the Spurs should let him walk over relatively little?

[ChumpDumper]

Well, he was fairly significant in the other 3 postseason series. Well, Phoenix is fairly significant matchup going into the future.


He's a smart capable big who doesn't need the rock to be effective and he knows the things that other talents still haven't figured out how to do at the 5. And he plays well on the big stage. Those qualities are both very valuable for a serious contender.What other things? What is the value of those other things?


As for Houston, they can gain their athleticism on the perimeter.they have been quoted as specifically looking for athleticism at the four.

[AFBlue]

Why?

Graham is an extremely athletic 3 that can play at the 4 spot and has good defensive fundamentals. If the Spurs can get him on the cheap, I think he could blow up the summer league and be in contention in 08 for minutes...

[ChumpDumper]

Personally, I think we had a pretty easy time of it this playoffs, and still need to look for an upgrade at center if it's at all possible. Oberto may or may not be one of the guys to stay.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, Phoenix is fairly significant matchup going into the future.

As are Dallas and Utah.



What other things? What is the value of those other things?

Knowing your spot on the floor. Playing within your game. Playing solid team defense. Plenty when you are competing for championships.



they have been quoted as specifically looking for athleticism at the four.

Team execs say many things.

[Marcus Bryant]

Graham is an extremely athletic 3 that can play at the 4 spot and has good defensive fundamentals. If the Spurs can get him on the cheap, I think he could blow up the summer league and be in contention in 08 for minutes...

Giving up the best center the Spurs have had post-DRob isn't "cheap".

[AFBlue]

Finally the Spurs find a center for the postseason and the Spurs should let him walk over relatively little?

Spurs have other options, both on this team (Butler) and off it....with Scola, draftees, veteran FAs (PJ Brown?), etc.

Why overpay for this guy...thinking long-term $$$....when the Spurs have other legitimate options?

[ChumpDumper]

As are Dallas and Utah.It would be nice if all their opponents had Tim Duncan too.


Plenty when you are competing for championships.Numbers please.


Team execs say many things.So you think Houston wants to get less athletic at the four under Adelman.

[Marcus Bryant]

It would be nice if all their opponents had Tim Duncan too.

A team doesn't need TD for Oberto to be effective.



Numbers please.


Someone paid Adonal Foyle $40 million when he's done nothing in the postseason. Ditto for Radoslav and Mohammed.



So you think Houston wants to get less athletic at the four under Adelman.

I don't see it as a given. Oberto can play the 5 as well.

[ArgSpursFan]

Spurs have other options, both on this team (Butler) and off it....with Scola, draftees, veteran FAs (PJ Brown?), etc.

Why overpay for this guy...thinking long-term $$$....when the Spurs have other legitimate options?

3 yrs $ 10 M,is overpaid for a smart center in the NBA today?
Geez;He is one of the cheapest we had in a long time.

[Darkwaters]

Spurs have other options, both on this team (Butler) and off it....with Scola, draftees, veteran FAs (PJ Brown?), etc.

Why overpay for this guy...thinking long-term $$$....when the Spurs have other legitimate options?

I have to think that PJ Brown would love to play for the Spurs. The reason he requested a trade from the Hornets was so he could play for a contender. Having a shot at a ring might encourage him greatly. That being said, PJ also has stated he has no interest in playing Center anymore. He started at C for the Hornets all of 05-06 and absolutely hated it.

[Fabbs]

If it was that easy as you say,Rasho and Nazr should´ve been still wearing a spurs uniform,don´t you think?
Besides,I don´t think Fabricio is trying to make a stupid move,I just think He is trying to secure his last 3 or 4 yrs as an active player,that´s all.
If you look at fabricio´s skills He will still do the same things He does right now in 3 or 4 yrs,coze he doesn´t base his game on athletisism,just smart BB.
Nazr did title in 2005 at 20 min per playoff game. So in a sense, thanks for agreeing with my point. Rasho was a knee jerk reaction to the Lakers getting Karl Cheapshot and Gary Payton for minimal. A signing that should never have happened. Altho Rashos team D was much much better then a lot ever gave him credit for.

If Fabs only priority is money, then hasta. So be it. My take is he's gonna get what, 25%?? more money next year. Why not stay on the Spurs, earn ***only 3 million*** on a repeat title team then sign afterwords? Because that would mean it's about winning 1st, and with 90% of pro athetes, it isnt.
I hear you that Fabs realistically has only one more shot at a contract. But I'm telling you in this day and age of role players making 3 million a year, the 1960s 25K a year players must roll over and die at what todays pampered NBA players consider underpaid.

Is Fabs lifestyle really gonna change that much if he earns 3 million vs 4 next year? And Finley :elephant :elephant oh yeah explain why he needs to add to his 100 million vs staying on a title favorite. It's not about winning, pure and simple. If Findog off the Spurs has another 25% shooting season followed by a smokin 70% Playoffs with some D and assists to boot en route to a 2008 title, serve up the crow, I'll eat it.

[Marcus Bryant]

Nazr did title in 2005 at 20 min per playoff game. So in a sense, thanks for agreeing with my point. Rasho was a knee jerk reaction to the Lakers getting Karl Cheapshot and Gary Payton for minimal. A signing that should never have happened. Altho Rashos team D was much much better then a lot ever gave him credit for.

If Fabs only priority is money, then hasta. So be it. My take is he's gonna get what, 25%?? more money next year. Why not stay on the Spurs, earn ***only 3 million*** on a repeat title team then sign afterwords? Because that would mean it's about winning 1st, and with 90% of pro athetes, it isnt.
I hear you that Fabs realistically has only one more shot at a contract. But I'm telling you in this day and age of role players making 3 million a year, the 1960s 25K a year players must roll over and die at what todays pampered NBA players consider underpaid.

Is Fabs lifestyle really gonna change that much if he earns 3 million vs 4 next year? And Finley :elephant :elephant oh yeah explain why he needs to add to his 100 million vs staying on a title favorite. It's not about winning, pure and simple. If Findog off the Spurs has another 25% shooting season followed by a smokin 70% Playoffs with some D and assists to boot en route to a 2008 title, serve up the crow, I'll eat it.

The Spurs signed Nesterovic irrespective of the Lakers' additions that summer.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why are the Spurs entitled to have players play for them on the cheap?

[AFBlue]

3 yrs $ 10 M,is overpaid for a smart center in the NBA today?
Geez;He is one of the cheapest we had in a long time.

Args, you have no idea what another team will offer Oberto, so why speculate on how much he'll receive. I'll admit though, that I don't know how much the Spurs would be willing to pay either.

My statement was in reference to "long-term money". I don't mind paying Oberto $3 or even $4 next year, but what about the year after that and the year after that. I know 31 is not that old, but think about how his lack of athleticism already limits him (doubt he'll ever avg. more than 20MPG) and think about what he might be two or three years from now.

If the Spurs are dolling out long-term contracts, I prefer that they do so for players that are likely not to decline in talent, athleticism, and production during that time.

[Solid D]

Why are the Spurs entitled to have players play for them on the cheap?

Well....it's a cheap ring for the player and a cheap price for the Spurs.

[ArgSpursFan]

S.A is a small market city,not enough money to spend,I guess

[Marcus Bryant]

Well....it's a cheap ring for the player and a cheap price for the Spurs.

Perhaps, but Oberto is 31 not 37.

[ArgSpursFan]

Args, you have no idea what another team will offer Oberto, so why speculate on how much he'll receive. I'll admit though, that I don't know how much the Spurs would be willing to pay either.

My statement was in reference to "long-term money". I don't mind paying Oberto $3 or even $4 next year, but what about the year after that and the year after that. I know 31 is not that old, but think about how his lack of athleticism already limits him (doubt he'll ever avg. more than 20MPG) and think about what he might be two or three years from now.

If the Spurs are dolling out long-term contracts, I prefer that they do so for players that are likely not to decline in talent, athleticism, and production during that time.

We all know,Fabss wont get a $20 M contract,He could if He was 25,but he is 32 unfortunetly.
I really think He is looking for a 3 yrs 10 to 12 M contract,and another championship ring with the spurs.
But I could be wrong.time will tell I guess.

[thousandth]

I really hope Oberto doesnt go to the damn Mavs, Oberto guards Tim everyday in practice and did a good job on him in Fiba. This would give the Mavs an even better chance of beating the Spurs, IMHO.


Other teams know what Oberto meant to the Spurs in the postseason. Picking off Oberto would be a nice summer move. In addition, his game fits in well with other contenders

I agree.Oberto'd guard Tim very well in 2003 and 2004 in Fiba. Impressive job. And he'd guard Amare very well in the playoffs in the critical moments.
He'll make a good job on Tim again, better than Kurt Thomas.
If Garnett not sign whit Suns. Oberto=the new role defensive player Suns.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't know, I think the Mavs might think rather highly of Oberto. The worst case for them would be that the Spurs are forced to pay a lot more to retain Oberto.

[AFBlue]

We all know,Fabss wont get a $20 M contract,He could if He was 25,but he is 32 unfortunetly.
I really think He is looking for a 3 yrs 10 to 12 M contract,and another championship ring with the spurs.
But I could be wrong.time will tell I guess.

Another thing to consider is what if some team is willing to offer an extra year at the end of the contract. We saw how the Spurs balked at adding a 5th year to Nazr and Joel Pryzbilla's contracts...so what if a team, like Toronto or the Bulls, offers a 4yr $16M deal as opposed to the 3yr $12M deal?

Do the Spurs scoff yet again and bring over a guy like Scola? I think they would and they should.

But my point is that it might not JUST come down to the money, but also to the length of the contract...in Restricted FA deals, teams are always looking for ways to outbid the host organization.

[ChumpDumper]

The Mavs already have three centers and hold and option on Mensa-Bonsu. Are they really going to blow the whole MLE on Oberto to replace Austin Croshere?

[thousandth]

I don't know, I think the Mavs might think rather highly of Oberto. The worst case for them would be that the Spurs are forced to pay a lot more to retain Oberto.

Spurs not pay a lot more. :nope it's a fact.
Oberto to Suns not Mavs.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

LOL this is so classic.

We're going to let oberto walk for something we should match, end up signing a player that makes 75% of us go :wtf "That guy?!", not really fill our small forward need, draft guys and send them to europe or trade them to a rival team, then still come out in 2007-8 season and kick some ass with the big 3 + scrubs. I've seen this script before.

[Marcus Bryant]

A 4 year deal would expire in 2011. If TD extends this summer then he'll be under contract until 2012. TD seems to be rather comfortable playing with Oberto. And of course the key wouldn't be that Oberto would be there in the 2011 playoffs but rather those of 2008-10.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Mavs already have three centers and hold and option on Mensa-Bonsu. Are they really going to blow the whole MLE on Oberto to replace Austin Croshere?

It's the Mavs. In addition, perhaps they move one of their centers.

[wildbill2u]

Do the NBA contracts provide for incentives like the NFL contracts? I haven't heard of any incentive contracts which would provide extra money for attaining goals on rebounds, points, etc so I assume they aren't used.

[ChumpDumper]

It's the Mavs.Right, the Mavs that actually care about the tax now and have other needs.

[AFBlue]

A 4 year deal would expire in 2011. If TD extends this summer then he'll be under contract until 2012. TD seems to be rather comfortable playing with Oberto. And of course the key wouldn't be that Oberto would be there in the 2011 playoffs but rather those of 2008-10.

But are you confident that Oberto circa 2011 will look like Oberto circa 2007? I wouldn't be so confident...

I'm just saying that it could be a discriminating factor in the potential re-signing of Oberto...

[ChumpDumper]

It's the Mavs. In addition, perhaps they move one of their centers.Perhaps we could too.

[Marcus Bryant]

LOL this is so classic.

We're going to let oberto walk for something we should match, end up signing a player that makes 75% of us go :wtf "That guy?!", not really fill our small forward need, draft guys and send them to europe or trade them to a rival team, then still come out in 2007-8 season and kick some ass with the big 3 + scrubs. I've seen this script before.

Yeah, this is no time to go cheap.

[exstatic]

The length of the contract is what it's all about. I'm sure Oberto asked about an extension and was told "no". He opted out because he wanted a deal that ran past June '08. Not happening.

Thanks, Fabricio. It's been a pleasure, and I hope you enjoy your next stop.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think Oberto's contract was long enough to get an extension in the first place.

[Marcus Bryant]

But are you confident that Oberto circa 2011 will look like Oberto circa 2007? I wouldn't be so confident...

I'm just saying that it could be a discriminating factor in the potential re-signing of Oberto...

Why exactly are we worried about 2011? The window is now with a 31 year old Tim Duncan, 29 year old Ginobili and 36 year old Bowen.

[AFBlue]

LOL this is so classic.

We're going to let oberto walk for something we should match, end up signing a player that makes 75% of us go :wtf "That guy?!", not really fill our small forward need, draft guys and send them to europe or trade them to a rival team, then still come out in 2007-8 season and kick some ass with the big 3 + scrubs. I've seen this script before.


All the while, SpursTalk Posters are speculating on James Singleton, Luis Scola, and when Slobo Ljubicicovic will be ready to take over for Duncan...absolutely furious!

:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Perhaps we could too.

Butler? Maybe the Spurs can pull a low 1st out of him.
Elson? Low 2nd, if anything.

[ChumpDumper]

Butler? Maybe the Spurs can pull a low 1st out of him.
Elson? Low 2nd, if anything.Or Oberto.

For the others, should I dig up one of your quotes pimping the value of an expiring contract?

[Marcus Bryant]

Or Oberto.

For the others, should I dig up one of your quotes pimping the value of an expiring contract?

Sure, if the team with the expiring contract is willing to take back one with a significant amount of $ and years left on it. Sound like the Spurs?

[AFBlue]

Why exactly are we worried about 2011? The window is now with a 31 year old Tim Duncan and a 29 year old Ginobili.

So you think that Oberto is irreplaceable? That he was the "x-factor" in the Spurs run to the championship this year? I mean, c'mon, I think he's an incredibly efficient player, but we're talking about Fabricio Oberto....

Surely the Spurs can afford to lose this guy, bring in a guy like Scola, PJ Brown, Nick Fazekas, Jackie Butler, or whoever...to play alongside Duncan and he'll adapt like he always does on the way to another title.

So what's the risk?

[ChumpDumper]

Sure, if the team with the expiring contract is willing to take back one with a significant amount of $ and years left on it. Sound like the Spurs?You're saying the Spurs should match a full MLE deal for Oberto and abandon their cap space plan for 08.

Sound like the Spurs?

[Marcus Bryant]

So you think that Oberto is irreplaceable? That he was the "x-factor" in the Spurs run to the championship this year? I mean, c'mon, I think he's an incredibly efficient player, but we're talking about Fabricio Oberto....

Surely the Spurs can afford to lose this guy, bring in a guy like Scola, PJ Brown, Nick Fazekas, Jackie Butler, or whoever...to play alongside Duncan and he'll adapt like he always does on the way to another title.

So what's the risk?

Just like Radoslav and Nazr, right?

[Marcus Bryant]

You're saying the Spurs should match a full MLE deal for Oberto.

Sound like the Spurs?

How much did they give Horry?

[ArgSpursFan]

Another thing to consider is what if some team is willing to offer an extra year at the end of the contract. We saw how the Spurs balked at adding a 5th year to Nazr and Joel Pryzbilla's contracts...so what if a team, like Toronto or the Bulls, offers a 4yr $16M deal as opposed to the 3yr $12M deal?

Do the Spurs scoff yet again and bring over a guy like Scola? I think they would and they should.

But my point is that it might not JUST come down to the money, but also to the length of the contract...in Restricted FA deals, teams are always looking for ways to outbid the host organization.

Oberto in 2 yrs,If the spurs don´t want him no more(which I doubt)could be an easy tradeable material for the spurs,teams always need a smart veteran buckup Center.
So I wouldn´t mind having him on the books until 2010.

[thousandth]

Really, Oberto not sign to Mavs. He'll go to in the Suns.

Newspapers in Argentina:

"he gets offer to more teams (Phoenix?)"

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2007/06/19/01440869.html (http://)

[ChumpDumper]

How much did they give Horry?That ate into the cap plan?

$0

[Marcus Bryant]

That ate into the cap plan?

$0

Perhaps that plan is re-evaluated this offseason.

[ChumpDumper]

Perhaps that plan is re-evaluated this offseason.So my plan is valid then.

[Marcus Bryant]

So my plan is valid then.

What is your "plan"?

[ChumpDumper]

You were the one who tried to discount it by saying "sound like the Spurs?"

Go back and try to understand the words this time.

[AFBlue]

Just like Radoslav and Nazr, right?

Did you just make my argument for me?

Yes, just like the Spurs replaced Rasho and Nazr with Oberto and Elson, so they can replace Oberto and Elson with Butler/Brown or Butler/Scola or any number of combinations...

If you're referring to who Rasho replaced, I'd say that Robinson was more than just a role player...even at the end.

[thousandth]

You were the one who tried to discount it by saying "sound like the Spurs?"

Go back and try to understand the words this time.

C'mon bro. :rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

My "plan" is to try and upgrade the center position, not stand pat.

[ArgSpursFan]

ok, I just red the article,it sais that Oberto is staying with the spurs eventhough he may have an offert from the suns.
It also sais that Scola has less chances to play with the spurs tham years before.
So, I really don´t know who´s lying and who is telling the true to the media.

[AFBlue]

Oberto in 2 yrs,If the spurs don´t want him no more(which I doubt)could be an easy tradeable material for the spurs,teams always need a smart veteran buckup Center.
So I wouldn´t mind having him on the books until 2010.

Sorry Args, if the Spurs think Oberto is overpaid and he's a valuable guy in their system, I don't think it makes him an attractive trade option.

Yes it's true that savvy veteran F/C don't grow on trees, but ones with negative athleticism and questionable talent don't usually make the cheese...

Case in point...Eric Snow costs $5M/year and he isn't getting traded anywhere, because his savvy veteran ass is getting paid too much.

[Spurs Brazil]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA062507.oberto.EN.14230e05.html

Oberto opts out of his final year with the Spurs

Web Posted: 06/25/2007 06:04 PM CDT

Mike Monroe
Express-News

If the Spurs are to return the lineup that started every game of The 2007 Western Conference Finals and The Finals, they will have to negotiate a new contract for center Fabricio Oberto.
After a strong playoff run in which he was the team’s most accurate post-season shooter and its No. 3 rebounder, Oberto informed the Spurs on Monday he has decided to opt out of the final year of the three-year contract he signed before the 2005-06 season.


Oberto made $2.5 million last season. He could have returned next season for the same amount had he chosen to do so. Instead, he will become a restricted free agent on July 1.

While there is certain to be interest in Oberto from other teams, both in the NBA and overseas, he wants to remain in San Antonio.

“Fabricio had the right to pick up the third year of his contract,” said Herb Rudoy, Oberto’s agent. “What he really did was decide not to opt in, but it is absolutely with the hope and intention of staying in San Antonio and winning more championships.”

Rudoy said Oberto wants to remain a Spur beyond next season. He is confident Spurs’ heach coach and executive-vice president of basketball operations Gregg Popovich and general manager R.C. Buford fell just as strongly about keeping Oberto in San Antonio.

“He has no intention of going anywhere else,” said the Chicago-based agent, who also represents Oberto’s Argentine teammate, Manu Ginobili. “That’s why he did it. The whole purpose of this is to get a new contract. They recognize his contribution. R.C. and Pop are smart guys and they know he fits like a glove with the whole system and the way he plays.

“The plan is for me to negotiate a deal at the appropriate time with R.C. and have him stay there.”

Buford said the club “will do everything we can” to make certain Oberto remains a Spur.

“I think everybody here appreciates what Fab brings,” Buford said. “We understand his importance to our team, to our organization and in our locker room.”

Oberto signed with the Spurs on Aug. 2, 2005, becoming a 30-year-old NBA rookie after 12 seasons as a professional in Argentina, Greece and Spain. He spent his first season adapting to the NBA and learning the Spurs’ systems, playing in only 59 of 82 games and averaging only 1.7 points.

He returned for the 2006-07 season as the team’s opening night starting center. In the fifth game of the season set an all-time club record for field goal accuracy by making 11 of 11 shots in a victory over the Phoenix Suns. He averaged 5.0 points and 4.8 rebounds in 80 regular season games.

Francisco Elson, signed as a free agent last summer, replaced Oberto in the starting lineup midway through the season. Oberto adapted easily to coming off the bench and remained a regular member of the playing rotation.

When the playoffs arrived, Oberto’s role increased significantly. He returned to the starting lineup for Game 4 of the Spurs’ Western Conference semifinal series against Phoenix. He started the final 12 games of the team’s run to the 2007 NBA title and averaged 5.1 points and 4.9 rebounds in the 20 games it took the Spurs to win their fourth title.

[timvp]

My "plan" is to try and upgrade the center position, not stand pat.

Upgrade over Oberto? If so, with what money?

Oberto isn't great but I don't see a replacement that isn't going to cost twice as much.

[Marcus Bryant]

You were the one who tried to discount it by saying "sound like the Spurs?"

Go back and try to understand the words this time.

Eh, I understood. Now try to explain how the Spurs are going to pull a better center when they presumably won't pay Oberto.

[timvp]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA062507.oberto.EN.14230e05.html


Sounds like the to be expected posturing on both sides. We'll see what happens when teams can start talking to free agents.

[ChumpDumper]

Upgrade over Oberto? If so, with what money? That's why I said trade. If the Spurs aren't willing to pay for an expensive center past next year, then they aren't going to pay for Oberto either and all of our posturing is moot.

[thousandth]

ok, I just red the article,it sais that Oberto is staying with the spurs eventhough he may have an offert from the suns.
It also sais that Scola has less chances to play with the spurs tham years before.
So, I really don´t know who´s lying and who is telling the true to the media.

Nobody says "the true" :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Eh, I understood. Now try to explain how the Spurs are going to pull a better center when they presumably won't pay Oberto.So now they won't pay Oberto? Make up your mind.

[koopa]

i respect what oberto did for the team in the playoffs, but he ain't worth more then a 2 year deal, he's to damn old and way to damn slow, this year, the cards fell down perfect for us, he was worthless against the suns and he would've been worthless against the mavs, he did good against the jazz cause boozer can't defend for shit and okur sucks ass........ he was decent against the cavs, his best game was game 4 but he wasn't the reason we won that series

so some are overrating oberto's worth cause we played the jazz in the western conference finals......... if he walks it won't be as big a blow as ppl are gonna make it seem, butler with more mins will be just fine, and elson now with a year under his belt will do good too...... plus we got other options if need be

[Marcus Bryant]

Eh, I typed "presumably". Just following your line of reasoning.

[timvp]

It would be your classic Spurs move to let Oberto walk, replace him in the starting lineup with Elson and replace Elson's spot off the bench with Butler, Bonner, Scola, Mahinmi or whoever.

That's how the Spurs operate, especially before a summer in which they can open up cap space.

Will it be different this year? I guess we'll see.

[ChumpDumper]

Is Oberto better than we think Butler could be?

I don't know, but I'd ship em all out for someone who could defend, rebound and block with any consistency. The impossible dream.

[picnroll]

Why exactly are we worried about 2011? The window is now with a 31 year old Tim Duncan, 29 year old Ginobili and 36 year old Bowen.
Window will be 2008 if Duncan looks around doesn't like what he sees or what Spurs can add and opts out.

[Marcus Bryant]

Window will be 2008 if Duncan looks around doesn't like what he sees or what Spurs can add and opts out.

Then why let Oberto walk? Better to show a commitment to winning now than worrying about tomorrow.

Also, if TD was going to leave it was back when it looked like he wouldn't have a 2nd star past 2001.

[timvp]

To me, Oberto's most vital attribute is that Pop trusts him to close out games. Pop has only trusted five bigs in his history of coaching to close out games: Duncan, Robinson, Rose, Horry and now Oberto. With Horry retiring after next year, that'd put the Spurs in an ugly predicament if they couldn't replace Oberto with another guy Pop trusts.

It'd be the return of small ball :depressed

[Marcus Bryant]

Is Oberto better than we think Butler could be?

I don't know, but I'd ship em all out for someone who could defend, rebound and block with any consistency. The impossible dream.

Then the Spurs will have to be willing to take back an unpleasant contract.

[timvp]

Window will be 2008 if Duncan looks around doesn't like what he sees or what Spurs can add and opts out.

Legend has it that it was Duncan who asked Pop to replace Elson in the starting lineup with Oberto. . .

[TDMVPDPOY]

reggie evans is fukn not even used in denver, be good if we could get him

[koopa]

oberto doesn't really help us win now unless we play the jazz every year in the western conference finals........... he was worthless against the suns, and he'll be worthless against the mavs........ so he is not worth anything then what he has now but maybe a year added on....... so if he gets more then 2 years it would be a waste of money.........

[Spurminator]

oberto doesn't really help us win now unless we play the jazz every year in the western conference finals

I wouldn't bet against it

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I was as anti-Oberto as the best of us, coming into this past season knowing he was going to be our starting center. I thought it was hopeless. But he changed my mind with his playoff performance. We shouldn't break what we got going. However.....teams are really really stupid and may offer Oberto wayyy more than he's worth this summer. If that be the case its not a good idea to resign him. But its all moot. We all know if Obert is offered even what he is truely worth, we wont resign him.

[ChumpDumper]

Then the Spurs will have to be willing to take back an unpleasant contract.If he could do all those things, it would actually be very pleasant.

[bdictjames]

Gah Oberto's a bitch.

[Marcus Bryant]

To me, Oberto's most vital attribute is that Pop trusts him to close out games. Pop has only trusted five bigs in his history of coaching to close out games: Duncan, Robinson, Rose, Horry and now Oberto. With Horry retiring after next year, that'd put the Spurs in an ugly predicament if they couldn't replace Oberto with another guy Pop trusts.

It'd be the return of small ball :depressed


Good point. Look at the contracts they gave Horry and Rose.

[The Red Hood]

So he has until midnight tonight to make a decision?

[bdictjames]

So he has until midnight tonight to make a decision?
Nope , pretty much the whole summer I think. Hopefully he'll make the "right" choice and stay with his buddy Ginobili and the Spurs.

[Cherry]

Nope , pretty much the whole summer I think. Hopefully he'll make the "right" choice and stay with his buddy Ginobili and the Spurs.

Manu did the same in 2004...
































...poor Karl :lol

[Fabbs]

Legend has it that it was Duncan who asked Pop to replace Elson in the starting lineup with Oberto. . .
If legend is true, and for all you who insist he has to go to another team so his lifestyle can be drastically changed by increasing his salary by 1 million a year:

Speedy Claxston.
No one can ever prove it one way or the other but I would hope contibuting to 2 or 3 titles might have been better for him then what he got.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

I think he's gone



some team is going to offer him 10-15mil, I mean he was AWESOME in the Jazz series and he is a starting C on a title team


but he's also nothing w/o Duncan

[HJNTX]

So, when will we know whether he's staying or not?

[diego]

meh. i doubt oberto gets big money, contender offers. he will likely get a high offer from a loser, some 4 mill offers from a contender, and 3 mill from the spurs- question is if they give him 2 or 3 years, and who holds the options. but i dont think he will leave over a million dollars.

I think he is more likely to leave if a euro contender offers him a long 2-3 mill per deal. But i dont think any euro team would throw that kind of money on an aging guy who isnt enough of a scorer to be a franchise player.

I would bet that he stays and the 08 plan goes out the window. it doesnt make sense to open up capspace for more talented players you arent necessarily going to get- you could just easily end up overpaying somebody worse than oberto. Flexibility is great, but there is too much risk to stripping down to just the big 3 and have nothing but question marks 4-12. they should have learned the lesson by now.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i laugh if one of our nemises picks him up aka suns/mavs....

[slayermin]

Elson should be more comfortable and better next year. But fuck, I hope we keep Oberto. His experience and toughness will be missed in the playoffs. You know he's gonna give you his heart and soul like Manu.

Pay him the 3 to 4 mil per year for three years and get it done.

[AFBlue]

Elson should be more comfortable and better next year. But fuck, I hope we keep Oberto. His experience and toughness will be missed in the playoffs. You know he's gonna give you his heart and soul like Manu.

Pay him the 3 to 4 mil per year for three years and get it done.

That sounds to me like a reasonable offer, but my guess is that someone (Chicago/Toronto/Memphis) comes over the top with an additional guaranteed year and maybe $1M/yr more.

Spurs would probably match a 3yr $10-12M contract (personally, I would also think the Spurs would try to get a team option for year 3, but that's just me), but it would be much tougher to match a 4yr $16-20M deal....

[slayermin]

Spurs would probably match a 3yr $10-12M contract (personally, I would also think the Spurs would try to get a team option for year 3, but that's just me), but it would be much tougher to match a 4yr $16-20M deal....

I don't think the Spurs match a four year offer. Hopefully no one offers him more than three.

If it's 4.5 to 5 mil a year for three, I would do that too.

[AFBlue]

I don't think the Spurs match a four year offer. Hopefully no one offers him more than three.

If it's 4.5 to 5 mil a year for three, I would do that too.

3yr, $15M for Oberto? If there were no other options, I'd say you probably take that deal, but in this system you just plug a new guy in next to Tim and see how it goes....and the Spurs have so many options to plug (Elson, Butler, Scola, PJ Brown or other FA, a possible draftee...and let's not forget Horry for one more year).

If that deal has a Team Option in year 3....maybe.

But of course, this is just my opinion and the Spurs have to make up their own damn minds...

[Brutalis]

I can't help but to be a selfish Spurs fan:

If Oberto ends up in a fucking Grizzlies or Bobcats uni next year then I hope he feels fucking stupid and lonely when his season is over by mid-December.

[Switchman]

Oberto. 2 years max.

Anymore than that is a waste of our 08 $$$$$..

[The Red Hood]

Nope , pretty much the whole summer I think. Hopefully he'll make the "right" choice and stay with his buddy Ginobili and the Spurs.

Damn so we won't know for awhile :depressed

[bigfan]

Id give Fabbo 3 years, (up to) $4 million a year with team option on the third year and thats about it. Anything more than that and bye bye. We've got Elson and Butler and can get more if we need them. It would hurt losing the guy but no sense mortgaging the future on a smart journeyman. As for Finley, I think he'll be back. He's got one more year of crazy money from the Mavs and maybe he'll feel like since everybody helped him get his ring, he'll stick around for one more here.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

3yr/12million is the highest I'll go.

[Marcus Bryant]

Id give Fabbo 3 years, (up to) $4 million a year with team option on the third year and thats about it. Anything more than that and bye bye. We've got Elson and Butler and can get more if we need them. It would hurt losing the guy but no sense mortgaging the future on a smart journeyman. As for Finley, I think he'll be back. He's got one more year of crazy money from the Mavs and maybe he'll feel like since everybody helped him get his ring, he'll stick around for one more here.

Uh, the future is now.

[Switchman]

That's bs if Finley leaves the Spurs. We get this guy his ring, he FINALLY began to show up in games and contribute, AND he is still racking 18mil from Dallas. Repeat with us and see the light.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's bs if Finley leaves the Spurs. We get this guy his ring, he FINALLY began to show up in games and contribute, AND he is still racking 18mil from Dallas. Repeat with us and see the light.

Hey, it's a business. If he can get $7 mil guaranteed from someone else why not opt out?

[Streakyshooter08]

So, if the Spurs are trying to resign him, it would be with the money of the MLE and LLE, right? This means they have less money for a SF or PG? I wonder how they want to solve this...

[coopdogg3]

So, if the Spurs are trying to resign him, it would be with the money of the MLE and LLE, right? This means they have less money for a SF or PG? I wonder how they want to solve this...

The Spurs have Oberto's Early Bird Rights, meaning it wouldn't take any money from the MLE to resign him.

[Streakyshooter08]

The Spurs have Oberto's Early Bird Rights, meaning it wouldn't take any money from the MLE to resign him.

Thanks! I totally forgot that.

[K-State Spur]

That's bs if Finley leaves the Spurs. We get this guy his ring, he FINALLY began to show up in games and contribute, AND he is still racking 18mil from Dallas. Repeat with us and see the light.

let's not forget that he already signed here for below market value once.

[itzsoweezee]

let's not forget that he already signed here for below market value once.

it doesn't really make a difference. while the spurs might not be paying him a ton of money, he's still earning a ton of money. he's raping dallas and the spurs and finley are benefiting from it. he's the last person that should be feeling he's underpaid.

[Bruno]

The most I will give to Oberto is $12M/3 yaers with the third year not fully guaranteed. Oberto has been good in these playoffs but playoffs are all about matchup and Spurs main rivals (Dallas, Houston and Phoenix) aren't good matchups for Oberto. The only way, I would match a 3 years full MLE deal is if the offer come from Dallas or Phoenix.

[Rustyman]

The most I will give to Oberto is $12M/3 yaers with the third year not fully guaranteed. Oberto has been good in these playoffs but playoffs are all about matchup and Spurs main rivals (Dallas, Houston and Phoenix) aren't good matchups for Oberto. The only way, I would match a 3 years full MLE deal is if the offer come from Dallas or Phoenix.

Is $12M/3 realistic though? I really think that Oberto's agent will be looking for at least $4M/4 years and I don't think that is unreasonable. Teams have seen what the Spurs have done with putting good veteran role players around their core and I think someone that is trying to copy the Spurs model will be make Oberto an offer the Spurs will not match and as much as I like Oberto, I think that would be the best outcome for both parties.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The Spurs have Oberto's Early Bird Rights, meaning it wouldn't take any money from the MLE to resign him.

This, and the way he fit into the team in the playoffs, suggest to me that Oberto will get 3-4mil for 3 years here and take it to win a few more rings. He fits into this team beautifully, both his personality and game, and I think he knows that this is about the best place for him. I'd be very surprised to see him leave.

I think a lot of people in this thread are looking at him as a chess piece, and not a human being. Did you see him jumping around like a little kid after game 4? He loves it here, and I think the team loves him. He'll stay. ;)

[Findog]

Oberto's got a ring now, so being a part of a first-class organization might take a backseat to a big payday. There's always a shit team to overpay for a guy.

[ArgSpursFan]

I just Hope Cuban doesn´t comeup with a stupid offer to Oberto(like a 4 yrs 16 M)like He always does,Just to screw us.
Plus,He needs a smart Center to compliment well with Dirk.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Oberto's got a ring now, so being a part of a first-class organization might take a backseat to a big payday. There's always a shit team to overpay for a guy.

I doubt there's a team that will offer over 4mil for him, and for that he'd certainly choose to stay here. I reckon you'd have to offer 6+ to prise him away, and I don't see any team doing that.

Maybe I'm wrong, but he seems like the sort of guy who loves basketball, not just the money, and thus is more likely to stay with a great team who are in the middle of their run, just like Bruce, Manu, (and David?) did.

I hope our bigman rotation next year includes more Butler and we spread the minutes around Oberto-Butler-Elson depending on form and matchups.

[smeagol]

I have a hunch Oberto will stay a Spur. The contract will be 3yrs /$12 - $14MM.

By the way, Brutalis, he won't be lonely in the Bobcats. Herrmann is there.

[AFBlue]

I doubt there's a team that will offer over 4mil for him, and for that he'd certainly choose to stay here. I reckon you'd have to offer 6+ to prise him away, and I don't see any team doing that.

Maybe I'm wrong, but he seems like the sort of guy who loves basketball, not just the money, and thus is more likely to stay with a great team who are in the middle of their run, just like Bruce, Manu, (and David?) did.

I hope our bigman rotation next year includes more Butler and we spread the minutes around Oberto-Butler-Elson depending on form and matchups.


As I said earlier in the thread, maybe you don't have to offer him MLE money ($5M+) to price him out of the Spurs range...maybe you just have to guarantee an extra year at around the same money the Spurs will accept.

Say the Spurs offer a 3yr $12M contract with the third year being a team option. My guess is that some team (Toronto and Chicago come to mind, with their lack of frontcourt depth and affinity for internationals and hustle guys) comes over the top with a 4yr contract (three guaranteed) at somewhere between $16-20M.

In that case, I don't think the Spurs match....

[Bruno]

Is $12M/3 realistic though? I really think that Oberto's agent will be looking for at least $4M/4 years and I don't think that is unreasonable.

I don't think Oberto will get a 4 years contract. He is still 32 years old and I don't see a nba team ready to give $4M to a 36 years old Oberto.
To me, 3 years is the max he cna get and I wouldn't be surprised if the third year isn't fully guaranteed (like for Bowen and Horry).

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't think Oberto will get a 4 years contract. He is still 32 years old and I don't see a nba team ready to give $4M to a 36 years old Oberto.
To me, 3 years is the max he cna get and I wouldn't be surprised if the third year isn't fully guaranteed (like for Bowen and Horry).

A Horry-esque contract makes a lot of sense.

[diego]

I don't think Oberto will get a 4 years contract. He is still 32 years old and I don't see a nba team ready to give $4M to a 36 years old Oberto.
To me, 3 years is the max he cna get and I wouldn't be surprised if the third year isn't fully guaranteed (like for Bowen and Horry).

exactly, the offers he gets arent going to be much higher and oberto isnt going to take his family to a new city and sit on some teams' bench for an extra million, knowing he could be winning rings with manu, duncan and pop in SA. The only question is how many years and who has the options.

[smeagol]

Oberto will remain a Spur. He likes playing with Duncan. He obviously likes playing with Manu. He can chat in spanish with Bruce. He likes SA. Need I go on?

[AFBlue]

I don't think Oberto will get a 4 years contract. He is still 32 years old and I don't see a nba team ready to give $4M to a 36 years old Oberto.
To me, 3 years is the max he cna get and I wouldn't be surprised if the third year isn't fully guaranteed (like for Bowen and Horry).

Ben Wallace got a four year deal for $60M at the age of 32....

Adonal Foyle signed a six year deal for $42M at the age of 30....

So, teams have proven that they are willing to pay players well into their 30s. And the assumption was that the Spurs wouldn't fully guarantee a third year, while the other team would, and also have an option in year 4. It's an assumption for sure, but I've seen how some of these restricted FA deals are structured to discourage the host club from matching....and it's not always about the $$$.

[ArgSpursFan]

Oberto will remain a Spur. He likes playing with Duncan. He obviously likes playing with Manu. He can chat in spanish with Bruce. He likes SA. Need I go on?

He can go to Dallas and visit Manu´s family on his days off.
you never know what fucking M.Cuban is capable to offer.Plus if it is a spurs player.

[Bruno]

Ben Wallace got a four year deal for $60M at the age of 32....

Adonal Foyle signed a six year deal for $42M at the age of 30....


The last year of Foyle is a team option.
Anyway, we will see what happen but I don't see Oberto getting a 4 years deal witha fourth year fully guaranteed



And the assumption was that the Spurs wouldn't fully guarantee a third year, while the other team would, and also have an option in year 4.

:wtf
I wasn't answering to your post.

[AFBlue]

:wtf
I wasn't answering to your post.

It was my assumption that the Spurs wouldn't guarantee a third year, but they very well might. And it was my assumption that another team WOULD guarantee the third year and hold a team option for the fourth....

[Bruno]

BTW, if the MLE is at $5.4M this year, the max contract another team, that is over the cap, can give to Oberto is a $24.2M/4 years contract. Teams can't offer Oberto a full MLE deal ($31.3M/5 years) because of the over 36 rule.

[Fabbs]

With Elsons superior athletic skills, can he get his basketball IQ raised up and makes Fabs signing -or not- a non factor?

[wildbill2u]

I often laugh at the assumptions made here about the power of dollars to move a player. Answer these questions and see how you would react to an offer of an additional million or so:

1.If you had careers which are over at the early or mid-thirties would you take that into consideration on an offer for more years?

2. Would you move from your current city/location to another state/country for a million dollars or more?

3. Would friendships and satisfaction with your current location prevent you from making serious money decisions to move to another team?

4. Did you lie about any of the above?

[Fabbs]

I often laugh at the assumptions made here about the power of dollars to move a player. Answer these questions and see how you would react to an offer of an additional million or so:
Bill,
put Obertos pay raise into perspective. No one here is currently making 2.9 million a year, thus no one is going to get a raise of one million per year. So the question is will they uproot and move to another city for a 15-25% pay raise.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I think Finley made a mistake, I don't see him being picked up by the spurs if another team offers too much money. Oberto has one foot out IMO, if anotehr team offers a sustantial amount, I don't think the spurs will match. But I'm not sure theree, they might if they have no otehr plan for the position or haven't scouted anyone else thinking he was going to stay put.

I'm astonished at Finley since he is old and still managed to get a nice paycheck from Cuban. He already has the ring, he just needed to stay put. He is replaceable.

[AFBlue]

I think Finley made a mistake, I don't see him being picked up by the spurs if another team offers too much money. Oberto has one foot out IMO, if anotehr team offers a sustantial amount, I don't think the spurs will match. But I'm not sure theree, they might if they have no otehr plan for the position or haven't scouted anyone else thinking he was going to stay put.

I'm astonished at Finley since he is old and still managed to get a nice paycheck from Cuban. He already has the ring, he just needed to stay put. He is replaceable.

Has Finley officially opted out, or made a statement as such? I thought he had until Saturday....

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Oberto will remain a Spur. He likes playing with Duncan. He obviously likes playing with Manu. He can chat in spanish with Bruce. He likes SA. Need I go on?

That really doesn't matter anymore. By opting out from his option he now is reachable by other teams that can offer a huge amount of money the spurs can't match. So it is very risky. If noone is interested in him then the spurs just pay him whatever they want and that's it but I find that unlikely, I believe he will be visiting some towns within the next few weeks.

[K-State Spur]

That really doesn't matter anymore. By opting out from his option he now is reachable by other teams that can offer a huge amount of money the spurs can't match. So it is very risky. If noone is interested in him then the spurs just pay him whatever they want and that's it but I find that unlikely, I believe he will be visiting some towns within the next few weeks.

it's more a case of "won't" or "shouldn't" vs. "can't"

(depending on what is actually offered)

[WalterBenitez]

He can go to Dallas and visit Manu´s family on his days off.
you never know what fucking M.Cuban is capable to offer.Plus if it is a spurs player.

that's what I call a traitor

[CubanMustGo]

Traitor schmator. If some contender is willing to pay him 1.5-2x as much as SA he'd be an idiot to stay here.

[ArgSpursFan]

that's what I call a traitor

That´s what I call a Homer.